Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

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Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by ray245 »

Has anyone seen this movie? I've just gotten around to seeing this fairly recently, and it's one of my favorite first contact movie. I really enjoyed how they deal with the concept of experiencing non-linear time. Hopefully, it could be the first sci-fi movie to actually win the Oscar, although I think Lalaland stands a much chance.

Anyone else has seen this movie?
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Galvatron »

I saw it. It wasn't quite what I expected, but I liked it a lot.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by JLTucker »

Saw it but thought the payoff was not worth the time spent watching it. Most of it was good, but I cannot see me ever watching it again. Wiorth a rental, for sure, but wouldn't buy it if you're a fan of science fiction.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Adam Reynolds »

JLTucker wrote:Saw it but thought the payoff was not worth the time spent watching it. Most of it was good, but I cannot see me ever watching it again. Wiorth a rental, for sure, but wouldn't buy it if you're a fan of science fiction.
In what sense is that true? Is it the sort of thing in which you can predict the ending if you are generally familiar with the genre?
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Q99 »

A thing about movies like this is (1) they strike me as similar to old classic SF short stories that make you think, and (2) I have read sooo many of those, and novels and movies, that I find myself less than floored by even fairly good twists, so I tend to just read the synoposis and move on.

My perception from not having watched it is, it looks a heck of a lot better than Interstellar or Passengers, but is very much made of stuff I'm used to.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by JLTucker »

Q99 wrote:A thing about movies like this is (1) they strike me as similar to old classic SF short stories that make you think, and (2) I have read sooo many of those, and novels and movies, that I find myself less than floored by even fairly good twists, so I tend to just read the synoposis and move on.

My perception from not having watched it is, it looks a heck of a lot better than Interstellar or Passengers, but is very much made of stuff I'm used to.
It's nowhere near being better than Interstellar. It's so inferior.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Terralthra »

I liked it much better than Interstellar, but did not find it to be as "inspiring" as many watchers seemed to do. I thought its ending, in particular, was discouraging to the point of nihilism in its view of humanity.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by JLTucker »

Terralthra wrote:I liked it much better than Interstellar, but did not find it to be as "inspiring" as many watchers seemed to do. I thought its ending, in particular, was discouraging to the point of nihilism in its view of humanity.
I definitely agree. What the main character does is beyond forgivable.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

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JLTucker wrote:
Terralthra wrote:I liked it much better than Interstellar, but did not find it to be as "inspiring" as many watchers seemed to do. I thought its ending, in particular, was discouraging to the point of nihilism in its view of humanity.
I definitely agree. What the main character does is beyond forgivable.
That's not the part to which I object so strenuously, but I'm not sure whether we should enter a debate on that topic - or the other - in a thread not marked spoilers in the topic, and with spoiler tags still broken.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Q99 »

JLTucker wrote: It's nowhere near being better than Interstellar. It's so inferior.
Really? Ah well. Plot-summary wise it at least looked less head-desky to me.

It strikes me both have similar late-act plot twists.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I think because it doesn't have LOOKIT ME SO CLEVER SRS BSNSS Nolanism and it's last minute twisty screwy timey wimey stuff is done through well-acted but not-bombastic acting and characterization and actually not-rather-insufficient-portrayals-of-womengs AND avoidance of AWSUM AKSHUN sequences, IMO Arrival goes past Interstellar.

And it's less "lookit us so much mathematics computating black hoel!" and more "yes it is kooky but the underlying fucking theme is that it uses language and communication with others and INTROSPECTION OF SELF" that makes it pretty neato IMO.

It's like the Dr. Manhattan sequences in Watchmen. Which I love.

Of course it won't have enough gigajoule computationing sensibilities for the SO HARD ON SCI FI HADRON HARDONS sensibilities of the spherical masses of iron over here. ;)


Mein Review, because I just watched it a short while ago:

ARRIVAL is incredible. Brilliant plot, with delectable craziness and weirdness and a welcomed avoidance of utterly tired pew-pew 'splosions. The emphasis on linguistics, the entire puzzling setup and the great composition of the aliens with their vessels, language, mission, etc. is all in all just so refreshing. It's to sci-fi what the director's prior film, Sicario, was for the action genre and I guess this significantly alleviates worries for Blade Runner and the eventual Dune adaptation. It's just so much waw.

I'm very fine with the plot devices used in the narrative - it's a bold choice and, really, most other options, including pew-pew 'splosion-akshun, are totally been-there/done-that anyway. Subverting, avoiding, flipping over (and flipping off!) Great Action Hero cliches from the action-moviefication of sci-fi AND tired ass American military folklore-isms in sci-fi is <3

Though I don't think "aliens appear" = "automatic riots all over the world." Neill Blomkamp's documentary didn't show THAT degree of civil unrest... but then again, I am sure people around the world were calmer because they believed SOOTH EFFRICKA could handle giant alien spaceship appearances. :D

I'm also tickled at the Chinese belligerence over the alien vessel over Asian waters ;) and I guess my only complaint is the composition of their speculative/made-up Chinese hardware. J-20 or J-31-like fighters on a non-CATOBAR, not-even-ski jump... short-deck LHD-type carrier? Either the Chinese somehow magically got VTOL out of nowhere or... yeah, blargh blargh blargh :P

...and why place Iskanders (?) or whatever SRBMs within line of sight/visual range of the target anyway? What's the minimum range for those things, how far do they have to go to accelerate to attack speed?



Plus Saw Gerrera makes for a damn good Generadmiral Commanderalissimo of the You Ess Marangerine Force Smarmy Mavy. The less Corporatenant Blandy McBlanderson the 2nd or Shootgun McStabpunch Jr., the better.

AND it was hard to tell it was Forrest Whittaker because for once he wasn't batfuck nuts.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by K. A. Pital »

Much better than Interstellar. Shroom already summed up what I think also.

It reminded me of some China Mieville writing, and in a good way, because he is one decent writer in an age of rapidly spreading militaristic or downright fascist techno-thriller bullshit. Same with this film - a welcome change from the typical cliches of evil aliens or twisted secretive aliens.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by FaxModem1 »

I enjoyed it, but I thought Contact was a better execution of the concept.

I also wondered about the alien language.
Spoiler
If a species is able to foresee their own future, how does their society experience technological and scientific progress, as they would know the right answer every time. Wouldn't that stifle their ability to learn, and bottleneck their development? As well as their progress as a society as a whole?
Or am I missing something?
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Khaat »

Haven't seen it, missed a chance last night due to ... household drama.

FM: from the original short story the film is based on, Story of Your Life (Ted Chiang) Spoiler
“The heptapods are neither free nor bound as we understand those concepts; they don’t act according to their will, nor are they helpless automatons. What distinguishes the heptapods’ mode of awareness is not just that their actions coincide with history’s events; it is also that their motives coincide with history’s purposes. They act to create the future, to enact chronology.”
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by ray245 »

FaxModem1 wrote:I enjoyed it, but I thought Contact was a better execution of the concept.

I also wondered about the alien language.
Spoiler
If a species is able to foresee their own future, how does their society experience technological and scientific progress, as they would know the right answer every time. Wouldn't that stifle their ability to learn, and bottleneck their development? As well as their progress as a society as a whole?
Or am I missing something?
Does the concept for wrong even exist in their society?
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by FaxModem1 »

Khaat wrote:Haven't seen it, missed a chance last night due to ... household drama.

FM: from the original short story the film is based on, Story of Your Life (Ted Chiang)
“The heptapods are neither free nor bound as we understand those concepts; they don’t act according to their will, nor are they helpless automatons. What distinguishes the heptapods’ mode of awareness is not just that their actions coincide with history’s events; it is also that their motives coincide with history’s purposes. They act to create the future, to enact chronology.”
Alien: "Hmm, well today is the day I get horribly butchered and experience pain that which no one should ever experience. Better not forget to unlock my front door and place all these torture instruments on the kitchen counter. Oh boy, this is going to be the day that my part in the future is fulfilled."
ray245 wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:I enjoyed it, but I thought Contact was a better execution of the concept.

I also wondered about the alien language.

If a species is able to foresee their own future, how does their society experience technological and scientific progress, as they would know the right answer every time. Wouldn't that stifle their ability to learn, and bottleneck their development? As well as their progress as a society as a whole?

Or am I missing something?
Does the concept for wrong even exist in their society?
Well, unless they don't have the idea of pain, or that death or suffering = bad, then they should. A lot of growing pains that happen in civilization should not happen because they would have no reason to advance. The only reason they would invent, for example, a hammer, is that it was the time and date that it was time to invent a hammer. Same reason to build a house, not for need for shelter, but because it was the time and and day to build a new house.

Even though, say, half of their town might be suffering from a drought, they will not build irrigation until the future says it's the time and day to do so. Which means, that amount of suffering and/or death is perfectly acceptable to their civilization, as they embrace making the future happen. And they would not have the desire to make the concept of irrigation, until they receive future instructions to do so, and wait until it was the date to do so. And the only reason they would actually have the idea for irrigation, let alone the plans, blueprints, and knowledge to do so, is because they receive it from their future knowledge.

Essentially, their technological, social, cultural, and industrial advancement is all based on a grandfather paradox.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Terralthra »

You're assuming the heptapods have always had this capacity for future-understanding, rather than developing it over time. Understanding the language gave the ability to Dr. Banks. It's just as reasonable to hypothesize that the language they developed has taken eons to perfect such that understanding it gives that ability, rather than always possessing it.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

And like... it's not that they're actively delaying this thing out of fatalism... Dr. Banks outright prevents a war that was inevitable because of future-cheating. The hard part is just... we're presuming... some kind of fate-enslavement or something when it might not really be the case. You KNEW what you had for breakfast and you can never un-eat your breakfast or change your breakfast foods.. but does this mean you are a slave of destiny or density or whatever? Nah.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Khaat »

FaxModem1 wrote:Well, unless they don't have the idea of pain, or that death or suffering = bad, then they should. A lot of growing pains that happen in civilization should not happen because they would have no reason to advance. The only reason they would invent, for example, a hammer, is that it was the time and date that it was time to invent a hammer. Same reason to build a house, not for need for shelter, but because it was the time and and day to build a new house.
Or the circumstances that would have led to a hammer or a house have existed and driven their development without knowing it was "due", because they aren't watching a movie, they are living their lives.
Essentially, their technological, social, cultural, and industrial advancement is all based on a grandfather paradox.
And you figure timesense means you either have no agency at all, or should exercise it to remove all negatives? Even those beyond your comprehension? Your means? Your resources?

---comic relief break---
"Cave-hexapod Thrug, there's this thing called a photon cannon. I think I need one."
"Ok, cave-hexapod Grug. How do you do that?"
"Well, we need surplus population, mining and foundry industry, and an atomic energy source."
"I think I will look forward to being pounced on by a sabre-toothed mega-thub this afternoon, after fertilizing cave-hexapod Eeena's skirts, instead. I find consolation in that my kids are going to be smart and beautiful, and that the same mega-thub gets you in two-rotations."
"THAT's WHY I NEED THE PHOTON CANNON!"
---intermission ends---

This isn't Groundhog Day or About Time, you don't get to keep doing it over until you get it "perfect". You get one chance to do what you can do and embrace your life: Louise learns to see her entire life by learning the alien language (and learning a "normal" foreign language does affect the way you think.) She embraces her life (even knowing it has negative elements) because it was her life to live. It's in the short story title. How much time do you spend preparing for the bad? How much time do you spend enjoying the good? Can you have one without the other?

There was another movie made, with your perspective: Paycheck. Everyone gets wrapped up in "what the future will be" and they create that future, to apocalyptic results. There is no "historic sense" in that film.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by K. A. Pital »

I am not sure the concept of such foresight combines well with practical reality and causality, unless the future is determined only in very broad terms and finer details are still changeable. But it could be that alien psychology is so different from human that they readily accept everything that happens, because to them, it has already happened (perception matters).
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Dr. Banks was able to transmit plot-relevant information to and fro though... so the foresight does include finer details. Including specific words.
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Re: Arrival (2016 scifi movie)

Post by K. A. Pital »

I understand, this is why I said this is incompatible with causality and our current understanding of physics and everything.
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