Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

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What is your opinion of this scenario?

Yay! We won't be enslaved by asshole centauroids and get to colonize planets in my life time!
7
39%
Oh no! Mankind is under the digigrade boot of a race of expoititive assimilating space cats!
2
11%
It's a mixed bag
6
33%
Other
3
17%
 
Total votes: 18

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Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Zor » 2017-02-09 04:27pm

In this scenario some time in the next few months the world's space programs and astronomical groups detect a strange set of developments happening with unexpected bursts of light and radio waves in the outer solar system followed by points of light and radiation moving about and some explosions over a period of a day and a half. Four days latter sixteen ships ranging in size from roughly 300 to 1,000 meters in length move into earth orbit. They send a message to the nations of the earth and send a message to humanity in a variety of Terran languages. They say that they are the 37th Fast Attack Fleet of the Nirtalm Commonwealth Navy representing the Nirtalm Commonwealth while they explain that they have just saved humanity from subjugation by a hostile interstellar power and that they desire to offer terms.

In short, the primary species of the Nirtalm Commonwealth are the Nirtalm and they look like anthropomorphic cats. They are human sized, have digigrade legs, a short dense coat of fur with head hair, tails and clawed hands, large eyes, expressive ears, a slight muzzle and sharp teeth to facilitate a more meat heavy diet. They have similar sexual dimorphism to humans. Their homeworld is some 519 light-years from Sol. The have managed to achieve average lifespans of 300-400 years thanks to genetic modification. Most of them have a communications implant which also serves as a personal computer, but they are not big into cybernetics beyond. Their government is Federal and mostly technocratic, though it does have some democratic elements. Currently the Commonweath controls an area of space about 300 light years across (which is wider and flattened at one end) with 210 heavily populated systems (more than 107,495,424 Nirtalm by their reckoning) along with other less developed systems and a total species population of about 317 billion, with an additional 32 billion from an genetically engineered marine offshoot. It also has six client states composed of other races (total population 73 billion) which are in various stages of assimilation into the Commonwealth (more on this latter). Their ships have an effective FTL speed of between 400 to 800 c but need taking periodic breaks between jumps for about 10-20 hours every light year. Commonwealth exploration ships first discovered earth around 1880, but determined that it was too far out the way for their interests and the fact that they went to war with a rival interstellar power block known as the Eternal Heirarchy.

The Eternal Heirarchy is ruled by a race of Ksel, a genus of deer sized herbivorous centauroids which socially never got out of feudalism and hereditary caste systems (which they've used genetic engineering to speciate their race into laborers, spacers, artisans, merchants, priests and warriors, with the last two castes being the dominant ones with the others being genetically engineered to be subservient to them) and they've come to believe that this is the natural order. They rules an area of space about 360 ly in diameter (flatted off at one end that is in contact with the Commonwealth), slightly in size to that of the Commonwealth, though the population of Ksel is lower than the Nirtalm (totaling in at about 90 billion). Beneath this is some eighteen vassal species who's population adds up to 435 million which are in turn divided into a hundred and fifty one fiefs based around heavily populated worlds and various (non literal) satellites. Most fiefs are single species but others are composite affairs arranged by the Ksel. Each fief has a rank in the heirarchy based on species (there are four senior vassal species which enjoy positions of superiority in the hierarchy while two species who attempted to rebel had been enslaved), history, the function that the Ksel deem it most able to fulfill and seniority. Fiefs generaly have a fair bit of autonomy in how they run their internal affairs (unless they attempt to rebel or otherwise cause too much trouble, then the hierarchy imposes a government), but they have to meet quotas for the Hierarchy and obey a set of laws that the Hierarchy/higher ranking fiefs mandates for them. Though the Heirarchy does have a numerical advantage, the Commonwealth has an edge in technology (in particular Heirarchy jump drives have an effective realspace speed of 350-630 c) and is better organized.

Recently the Commonweath's intelligence service had found out that the Heirarchy had a subjugate earth from orbit and then use humanity to develop a base from which they could launch attacks into the the Commonwealth's flank. As such they stationed a picked squadron to intercept their attempts at doing so. To protect humanity from Heirarchy domination they've decided to accept the nation's of earth as protectorates of the Commonwealth. This will mean they will set up orbital defenses around earth protecting any nation and have a small fleet garrisoning the solar system which, together, should be enough to keep. They will also provide blueprints, scientific information, industrial equipment and some spacecraft (mostly launch vehicles). As it stands human industrial infrastructure can be of some use to their efforts in conjunction with their equipment to bootstrap humanity considerably and actively contribute to planetary defenses, though they will say that it will be a few decades before we could make our own crude hyperdrives. They also would designate the area 24 lightyears from sol to be a "Zone of Terran Interest" and would be willing to lease out a few ships to facilitate colonization. In that area there (besides earth) there are six marginally habitable planets (desert worlds with less than 5% water coverage, ocean worlds wit a few small island chains, and a couple worlds which are either on the hot side or the cold side of things) and two habitable planets. They'd also set up some FTL communication relay boeys. Moreover this is not an all or nothing deal. Nations can choose to accept Commonwealth Protectorate status or decline it.

However there are some points which are to be considered. The first of which is that while the Commonwealth is willing to provide some assistance free of charge they will eventually want humanity to pay for goods by manufacturing fuel, raw materials and a few basic goods to help supply their war machine. They'll also accept in payment the services of soldiers serving for 12 year terms of service as second line troops. Said soldiers would be outfitted with gear based on their designs which would include (among other things) 30kj laser rifles (as well as laser lmgs and sidearms), 5mm railguns able to send a 5 gram projectile out at speeds of 2.5km/s, environmentally sealed suits of full body armor with built in life support systems, comms, computers and sensor systems, smart grenade launchers, smart mortars and electric powered all terrain vehicles with 3,500 km ranges with enough life support to drive under a hundred meters of water, 99% of which will be made in human factories some refit. Though Ksel warriors are clad in power armor and have have as their standard weapon is a belt fed gauss lmg able to fire 7.1 gram slugs at 3km/s (although their vassals are less well equipped). Mostly said forces would be used in occupation of captured planets and supporting Nirtalm Marines as auxiliaries. As a general rule they'll figure that having one in 216 people in a protectorate country serving as auxiliaries is an acceptable quantity, and they'll show favoritism to those which can provide more troops. There is also the fact that while having Nirtalm machinery will be a boon to human industries, said equipment does not last forever and requires space parts from Nirtalm space. Finally one of the things they will require in any nation which complies is the setting up of conversion clinics. Said clinics exist to do one thing, convert human volunteers into additional Nirtalm through a complex process involving gene therapy and nanorobotic reconstruction. Once converted, the former human can become a full naturalized citizen of the Commonwealth. According to their history several species have 'gone extinct' because their entire population elected to being turned into Nirtalm. Once they've finished running some experiments on tissue samples they'll be to turn an adult human into an adult Nirtalm in about six months. They will very deliberately not give humanity any information on how to reverse the process.

The Nirtalm are somewhat willing to negotiate. If every human state refuses protectorate status they'll leave a FTL relay line to the commonwealth if we change our minds and leave a four ship strong frigate squadron to picket the oort cloud against scout ships, but they might have to level much of earth's industrial facilities to hinder the Heirarchy's efforts at conquest if they come in force.

So...
1: What Happens?
2: What will you do?
3: If you were in charge of your country what would you do?

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Lone Browncoat » 2017-02-09 06:23pm

Become a soldier, especially if it gets me into space, maybe trained as a pilot, if I ask(never know if you don't at least ask).
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-02-09 08:24pm

I just wanted to call attention to the one particularly disturbing as all hell part of your RAR (again with the transformation fetish)...

Zor wrote:Finally one of the things they will require in any nation which complies is the setting up of conversion clinics. Said clinics exist to do one thing, convert human volunteers into additional Nirtalm through a complex process involving gene therapy and nanorobotic reconstruction. Once converted, the former human can become a full naturalized citizen of the Commonwealth. According to their history several species have 'gone extinct' because their entire population elected to being turned into Nirtalm. Once they've finished running some experiments on tissue samples they'll be to turn an adult human into an adult Nirtalm in about six months. They will very deliberately not give humanity any information on how to reverse the process.
...What. The fuck.


Zor wrote:Finally one of the things they will require in any nation which complies is the setting up of conversion clinics. Said clinics exist to do one thing, convert human volunteers into additional Nirtalm through a complex process involving gene therapy and nanorobotic reconstruction. Once converted, the former human can become a full naturalized citizen of the Commonwealth. According to their history several species have 'gone extinct' because their entire population elected to being turned into Nirtalm. Once they've finished running some experiments on tissue samples they'll be to turn an adult human into an adult Nirtalm in about six months. They will very deliberately not give humanity any information on how to reverse the process.
...What. The fuck.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Imperial528 » 2017-02-09 10:30pm

What happens if humanity says "Thanks, but we had no idea this was a problem, so you can't seriously expect us to foot the bill. We have enough problems down here as it is, maybe give us a few centuries to work them out and we'll get back to you?"

Or perhaps this: "Okay, we'll abide by your terms, but our best developed ethical codes place a big importance on personal and population integrity. Can't you just have species converts undergo the process off-world, where it won't tempt people who didn't think it through as much as it would when it's a few cities away?"

This is like saving the life of someone who didn't know they were in danger of death and then demanding payment. Yeah, they'll feel indebted to you, but it's pretty unethical to demand rewards for otherwise altruistic acts.

Also, to those who have played XCOM 2: can you say "gene therapy clinics"?

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Tribble » 2017-02-09 11:18pm

You know, it just occurred to me that for all the silliness of having humanity avoid enslavement by evil space deer on the condition that people sign up to join the assimilating space cat federation... that's still far more logical and entertaining than any Archinist Scenario*. Way to go :D

*Though I must admit I do kinda miss the guy sometimes. Even though he got tiresome after awhile, bashing trolls is a fun hobby.
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby PREDATOR490 » 2017-02-09 11:47pm

Option 1: Accept the offer and be gradually assimilated to extinction via "optional" gene therapy
A) They will defend Earth in exchange for 'payment' in the form of soldiers serving for 12 years.
B) Forcing the construction of gene clinics
C) Rewarding 'compliance' and 'conversion'

Option 2: Reject the offer and have Earth industry levelled before being turned into another Empire's bitch
A) Empire A bombs Earth industry to prevent capture
B) Empire B captures Earth and demands slave work out of an industry that just got decimated plus genetic modification to be subservient


1) What happens

It is without doubt that some nations will accept Option A and this will force other nations to accept it out of pride, fear, envy... take your pick.
I.E If some random country made the deal and suddenly started getting super tech, any rivals of that country are going to be stuck needing to do the same.

I would fully expect a war to break out because the country that suddenly has the new toys will start using them on those that do not or some nutcases decide they would rather go out with a bang than lose to a rival nation.
The aliens will not be able to stop this unless they effectively occupy Earth and force fed humanity into mandatory conversion.


2) What will I do

Try to live out my life comfortably while watching the twilight of the human race.


3) If you were in charge of your country what would you do ?

Accept Option A and live out my life comfortably while watching the twilight of the human race.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-02-10 11:36am

The part where the Nirtalm have this urge to convert beings of other species into physiological Nirtalm is just bizarre and abhorrent, honestly, and it's making me seriously consider the merits of the deer-people. Since apparently they only use genetic modification on themselves, if Zor's OP is to be believed.

At least if you're enslaved by a bunch of feudal aliens, there's the possibility of a successful slave revolt at a future date, or of the aliens themselves becoming more enlightened and abandoning slavery.

If you get morphed into aliens who don't see anything wrong with expecting the rest of the galaxy to morph into beings physically identical to themselves... It's over. The whole story of your species and its cultures is genuinely, completely over, just as surely as if they'd murdered you all. Maybe more so.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby FireNexus » 2017-02-10 12:03pm

Zor, why do all of your scenarios involve humans being unmade by some Greater Power(TM)? Like every single fucking one. It's pretty goddamned tiresome. Like, you seem to go to great pains to build these hypothetical utopias, but humans seem not allowed to live in them unmolested. Do you just believe that baseline people cannot be made to live in peace/harmony/whatever without being physiologically altered? It's some fucking Borg shit that is insanely creepy.
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Tribble » 2017-02-10 12:06pm

Oh I dunno, I know a couple of people who would probably be delighted to have the opportunity to become space cats. And I'm sure there are plenty more out there. It's a win/win for them, would you ruin their dreams? :lol:
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-02-10 12:16pm

If there are whole species that disappeared into the homogeneous blob of Space Cats*...

It's a pretty safe bet that this isn't just about the handful of transformation fetishists who actually want to be space cats. Either the space cats are forcing people to become space cats and just not telling us that, or there's something about the society they're locking us into that penalizes everyone who isn't a space cat. To the point where people 'voluntarily' give up their physiology to fully absorb into an alien species and biology.

Which sounds like it would take an awful lot of coercion if you're trying to do it to an entire species.

I think Zor is just tone deaf on this issue somehow and doesn't understand that the vast majority of people, across the board, are strongly opposed to having their bodies and brains radically altered to "turn them into different people."
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Tribble » 2017-02-10 12:40pm

IMO the lifespan increase alone would be more than enough to convince a lot of people to change voluntarily. It's unknown whether or not the genetic modifications the space cats made to themselves to increase their lifespan can be made to regular humans. If not, then that's a fair trade off for some people - if you want to live 300-400 years instead of 80, space cat you must be.

Mind you knowing Zor the Space Cats probably could increase human lifespans to match their own, they just choose not to (like their refusal to give any knowledge on how to reverse the process) because they want everyone to be space cats... for reasons. In which case, few people would want to turn themselves into space cats apart from fetishists.
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Imperial528 » 2017-02-10 12:51pm

Simon_Jester wrote:The part where the Nirtalm have this urge to convert beings of other species into physiological Nirtalm is just bizarre and abhorrent, honestly, and it's making me seriously consider the merits of the deer-people. Since apparently they only use genetic modification on themselves, if Zor's OP is to be believed.

At least if you're enslaved by a bunch of feudal aliens, there's the possibility of a successful slave revolt at a future date, or of the aliens themselves becoming more enlightened and abandoning slavery.

If you get morphed into aliens who don't see anything wrong with expecting the rest of the galaxy to morph into beings physically identical to themselves... It's over. The whole story of your species and its cultures is genuinely, completely over, just as surely as if they'd murdered you all. Maybe more so.


It's done under compulsion as well, since by all appearances the Nirtalm only grant full citizenship to Nirtalm or converted persons.

The Ksel sound like a much better deal, especially since given the low population of their vassal species, which suggests they conquered those worlds prior to them even having an iron age. Feudal governments are notorious for being easy to corrupt and play their internal rivalries off of each other, and Humanity has had millennia of experience in that field, whereas I suspect the Hierarchy conquered worlds populated by developments of similar sophistication to the bronze age. Of course this presumes they didn't genocide massive amounts of those worlds populations, but from a feudal perspective that just seems like a waste when you can just oppress them into the peasantry.

As it is, the total population of the Hierarchy is just shy of 91 billion, and given the government structure most of those are probably laborer species, both subjugated and genetically modified. In terms of invading a single world, this doesn't compare well to trying to subjugate seven billion people, or about a thirteenth of their total population. I'm sure they could try to occupy Earth, but I doubt it would be a productive endeavour and would likely result in significant military and economic drain, which given the presence of the much larger Commonwealth on their own borders they will likely be facing the risk of invasion if they were to devote the power required to occupy Earth on the ground level in an attempt to subjugate it.

Frankly, from the Hierarchy's perspective, the best way to deal with Earth is to either prevent the Commonwealth from turning it into a satellite state or to beat them to the punch in doing so.

Even the most oppressive feudal governments saw the value in gaining the allegiance of smaller states without the potentially damaging pretense of military coercion, whether literal or implied. The Ksel's form of feudalism would be unlikely to have survived to dominate their own world without recognizing this, let alone become a space faring government.

Which leads me to believe that the Nirtalm are lying about the Hierarchy attempting to subjugate Earth, or at least they're overstating it. It would not surprise me at all given the conduct of the Nirtalm that the Ksel fleets they intercepted were going to Earth for the same reason they are: bring it under their political sphere before the other side convinces it otherwise.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Tribble » 2017-02-10 12:57pm

Given our high population (2nd only to the space deer themselves) I imagine that if we were offered the chance to join, we'd be pretty high up on the totem pole, right?
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Imperial528 » 2017-02-10 01:07pm

Frankly I would expect the Ksel to treat the Earth as an actual potential vassal state, unlike the puppet states described in the OP, and would likely approach us such that they will give the most developed nations of Earth some technology and security if we agree to send tribute to them along the course of our development either in forms of simple materials or military aid. I think the Ksel will expect us to provide these things on our own initiative as it was with vassal and satellite states in real life, instead of just using us as a recruitment and material pool like the Nirtalm.

It's also probable that the Ksel would just strip mine the asteroid belt and outer planets without talking to us at all, that's the path of least resistance here if they decide that Earth isn't worth the trouble of potential future rebellion. And it's not like we can really do anything about it.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-02-10 01:36pm

Tribble wrote:IMO the lifespan increase alone would be more than enough to convince a lot of people to change voluntarily. It's unknown whether or not the genetic modifications the space cats made to themselves to increase their lifespan can be made to regular humans. If not, then that's a fair trade off for some people - if you want to live 300-400 years instead of 80, space cat you must be.
The bare fact that the space cats accomplished this suggests that humans can too. If the space cats don't forcibly prevent it, humans should be able to start working out longevity technology quite soon. But I bet they will.

Because honestly, if as Zor says entire species have been wiped out by transmogrifying their bodies into space cats, there has to be some kind of coercion, or at the very least social engineering designed with the long-term goal of bringing about this result.

Think about it. If human beings could turn themselves into anything they wanted, some people would become centaurs or mermaids or whatever, I bet. But we wouldn't ALL do it, not every last one. Not voluntarily.

Maybe the space cats have some kind of long term plan that goes like:
1) Okay, you can turn yourselves into space cats and join us in space, or continue to live as space cats on your own planet along with the space cats who come to live among you.

2) 50 years later: Okay, ten percent of your population on your native planet are now long-lived space cats. Space cats are very long lived and are the only ones who get the benefits of space cat medical technology, because reasons. Don't question us! Besides, our government is "mostly technocratic, though it does have some democratic elements," so you don't really get to complain.

3) 100 years later: Okay, twenty percent of your population are long-lived space cats. Gee, your planet's kind of overpopulated, isn't it? Clearly the problem isn't the space cats, it's all those damn dirty apes breeding so fast. We need some kind of eugenics program to weed out bad genes among the ape-people, but the "mostly technocratic" govenrment concludes there is no need to do this among the cat-people, because they reproduce so slowly, and because the transmogrifiers ensure that no space cats with 'defective' genes exist.

4) 250 years later: Oh, my, the planet is majority space cat! However did this happen? Well, clearly there's nothing wrong with the eugenics program, we need it to keep the ape-people from breeding out of control and overrunning our lovely planet. One ape-child per ape-couple is juuuust fine. That's plenty. There's still a few billion ape-people left, no danger of running out...

5) 500 years later: Your proposal to put the few million remaining ape-people in special preserves is just silly. Why can't they just be cat-people like everyone else? If they want to not be sterilized they should just be cat people like everyone else.

That sounds plausible, as a way for a long-lived species that has de facto control of all the advanced technology and top-level access to political power structures to effectively wipe out the native population of a planet. By assimilating and absorbing part of it, while neutering (literally or figuratively, socially or demographically) the native ability to stand up for itself.

Mind you knowing Zor the Space Cats probably could increase human lifespans to match their own, they just choose not to (like their refusal to give any knowledge on how to reverse the process) because they want everyone to be space cats... for reasons. In which case, few people would want to turn themselves into space cats apart from fetishists.
Zor basically explicitly said all that, so yeah. As usual, transformation fetishism shows up in his science fiction RAR scenarios.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Zor » 2017-02-10 01:56pm

Imperial528 wrote:It's done under compulsion as well, since by all appearances the Nirtalm only grant full citizenship to Nirtalm or converted persons.

The Ksel sound like a much better deal, especially since given the low population of their vassal species, which suggests they conquered those worlds prior to them even having an iron age.

Damn that typo, the Heirarchy's vassal species are 435 billion.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby FedRebel » 2017-02-10 02:22pm

Overall the UN would diplomatically decline, we only have one side's interpretation, while they have a magnanimous offer and by default have asserted a willingness to 'protect' us. We need more information

The US, China, and Russia would hash out an alliance. This interstellar conflict is a mutual threat and mutually impacts their interests

Russia has the resources
China has the money, and a political environment that's not adverse to certain explosive "tests"
America has the research, technology, and Command & Control infrastructure

U.S. Strategic Command would become the foundation for Aliied Strategic Aersospace Joint Command, The Russian SRF and Chinese 2nd Artillery Corps being merged in, along with the PVO and NORAD.

Project Orion resumes development, but in Chinese territory. Three manufacturing facilities are constructed, Dyson 01 in the US, Dyson 02 in Russia, and Dyson 03 in China. D1 and D3 will be producing "Space Battleships" based on the USAF's 1960's design, but upgraded with modern technology, D2 will be tasked with producing the 4 million ton payload cargo Orions.

Story goes that in 1962 the USAF expected 12 "Space Battleships" by 1974. In this scenario we are looking a full war production resource allocation, 1 every 6 months seems reasonable.

Meanwhile the Cargo Orions would be establishing space based infrastructure, moon, etc.

The rest of the planet is looking at being relegated to a junior role under The Big Three, this would force the EU to federalize (somehow I don't see that as being civil) and lobby to be the fourth member, India would then likely chime in. Their strategic assets merged into ASAC (J would be omitted in the acronym) and Dyson 04 and Dyson 05 would be built in their respective territories. D4 helping with "Space Battleship" production, D5 producing a passenger variant to get manpower to the lunar, etc. mining/manufacturing colonies being established by Russian Cargo Orion missions (D5 can be quickly re-purposed to build more battleships.)

Eventually there's enough of a Lunar and Martian footprint that facilities D6-D10 are constructed.

Earth would be in a position to defend itself, and approach our furry friends with a more balanced agreement. They honor the 24 lightyear radi "Terran Interest Zone" provide hyperdrive technology, and we will assist them in their war as equals.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Tribble » 2017-02-10 02:29pm

Well, seeing as everyone aside from fetishists are opposed to the space cat assimilation plan and I don't think things are quite crazy and twisted enough, here's my version:

Space Cats save us from Space Deer, but the motivations for both are... different.

The Space Deer had sent scout ships years before... to Montana. After seeing their racial cousins' heads mounted on walls as trophies, they decided that a lesson in irony was needed. So their plan is to turn Earth into a Game Reserve, where Space Deer can hunt humans at their leisure. While they will want to maintain the human population at reasonable levels, they don't care about the living conditions - for them the thrill of the hunt is just as good whether humans are stone age or modern tech. This is not the first species the Space Deer have done this to as on most planets they encountered deer like creatures were the ones being hunted.

The Space Cats have saved humanity... because for them, human meat is a delicacy (cats being carnivores and all that). However, they have their PETA like groups and demands for "humane" treatment of meat products, so maintaining their delicacies overall living conditions is important to them (humans must be free ranging! no GM Meat! etc). They promise to protect Earth from the Space Deer, and even enhance living standards to a degree, provided they get to do some "farming" every once in a while. The farming will be substantially less than the number of fatalities the Space Deer would inevitably inflict (as the Space Cats don't want to disturb the market price for human meat too much, it's a delicacy, not a staple.) If Humanity chooses not to fall under the Space Cats "protection," then they will leave a beacon behind in case humanity changes its mind and will leave scouts to monitor, but will do nothing further to stop the Space Deer until then. Karma is a bitch.

Both sides have the tech to mostly prevent WMD use (biological / chemical / nuclear etc) and prevent themselves from being attacked, and both sides will actively prevent humanity from gaining the tech necessary to fight back. If they see humanity trying to do reckless things like mass suicide or WW3, they will intervene as needed.

So...
1: What Happens?
2: What will you do?
3: If you were in charge of your country what would you do?
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Enigma » 2017-02-10 06:34pm

I don't see anywhere in Zor's scenario in which humanity is forced to convert into space cats. Yes, by siding with them Earth will have to have these clinics but the conversion itself is voluntary. I'm wondering the reason for this is either they are 1) specist(sp?), 2) their population levels are at a decline either because a) decreased fertility rates or b) losing more to war than they can replace or 3) all of the above.

There is going to be plenty of volunteers.

The Nirtalm are a better choice than the Ksel.
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Adam Reynolds » 2017-02-10 06:54pm

I would also second the XCOM2 comparison. It feels rather like that to be honest. Gene therapy that has an ulterior motive. Even if that isn't the true intention, it still appears that way to most observers.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Khaat » 2017-02-10 07:05pm

Enigma wrote:I don't see anywhere in Zor's scenario in which humanity is forced to convert into space cats. Yes, by siding with them Earth will have to have these clinics but the conversion itself is voluntary.
Or so they say. In practice, though, we've been provided with evidence they committed genocide through whatever pressures led to entire species choosing Space Cat over self-determination as humans/thribbles/greems/whatevers. The fact that this doesn't mean anything to them means we don't mean anything to them (except as a resource to be harvested.)
I'm wondering the reason for this is either they are 1) specist(sp?), 2) their population levels are at a decline either because a) decreased fertility rates or b) losing more to war than they can replace or 3) all of the above.

I'm kinda wondering if the inmates are running the asylum prison. What's to say the Space Cats aren't the result of a hidden "master puppeteer" that uses "conversion" to merely assimilate new lifeforms into an artificial meat-shield race that can't biologically reproduce (by design)? Or maybe that's just my inner Evil Overlord talking....
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Lone Browncoat » 2017-02-10 07:29pm

Enigma wrote:I don't see anywhere in Zor's scenario in which humanity is forced to convert into space cats. Yes, by siding with them Earth will have to have these clinics but the conversion itself is voluntary. I'm wondering the reason for this is either they are 1) specist(sp?), 2) their population levels are at a decline either because a) decreased fertility rates or b) losing more to war than they can replace or 3) all of the above.
There is going to be plenty of volunteers.
The Nirtalm are a better choice than the Ksel.


I agree, but can't go back to amend my original post here, and wait 'till the Nirtalm get a glimpse on how many of us already 'worship' our terrestrial felines, they may have a policy among their people against eating other bipeds. {like a recent episode of Supergirl where the alien says as much to Kara and MonEl} Makes me wonder if my own furbabies would still recognise me IF I chose conversion, {pheromones or just regular B.O.?}. I'd probably chose to remain a primate, but request the life prolongation, especially if I survived two tours of their military service. After all, Zor made it clear we're not dealing with the Kzin, but a people who're more accommodating.
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Q99 » 2017-02-11 12:16am

Khaat wrote:
Enigma wrote:I don't see anywhere in Zor's scenario in which humanity is forced to convert into space cats. Yes, by siding with them Earth will have to have these clinics but the conversion itself is voluntary.
Or so they say. In practice, though, we've been provided with evidence they committed genocide through whatever pressures led to entire species choosing Space Cat over self-determination as humans/thribbles/greems/whatevers. The fact that this doesn't mean anything to them means we don't mean anything to them (except as a resource to be harvested.)


Mm, the original species are gone, but their descendants are members of the space cat species and presumably brought aspects of their culture with them.

And, yea, it *does* make sense for entire species to vanish by choice. If you have a good portion of volunteers who then return, are interacted with enough to be clearly themselves and in possession of what makes them them while also having extended age and similar. Eventually the number of remaining ones will dwindle simply because part of their replacement rate is going to another species, and over a long period of time, the benefits of staying will decrease as there will simply be less economic and social focus on catering to their form.

It's assimilation, not extermination... and assimilation is not an entirely positive thing but as it is voluntary and incentivized, it's not the worst thing in the world or an entirely negative thing either. The question is not whether or not some species have chosen to merge completely, but whether or not any species have not, and/or the precise nature of the species choices therein, and looking at the timescale of the conversions. That is, making sure it's truly a choice. If a species started out with a billion people and took, say, 2,000 years to fully switch over, that says to me it's probably the long term effect of incentivization and likely nothing more.

I mean, there's plenty of SF species which are just flat-out biologically better than others (if we could all become Star Trek Vulcan physically, minus the emotions stuff, there is very little reason not to, for example). If we look back and found the missing species mostly had shorter lifespans and inferior senses and such, and could reasonably conclude they'd find being a Nirtalm just *better*, then full conversion makes sense- just as I'd expect us to convert if the option included gaining a foot of height, increased endurance, +50% lifespan, better memories, and could now see in ultraviolet spectrum. Because what is important about us isn't simply a matter of biological identity but is more about who we are and our cultures.

If, on the other hand, we found out that species that seemed physically superior, or on-par with the Nirtalm were among those gone, or species converted in suspiciously short timeframes, that raises some red flags.

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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby Tribble » 2017-02-11 12:37am

Given that the Space Cats have genetic modification tech, the idea that their species is inherently superior is a dubious one at best. How much is it due to natural genetics vs their tech? As noted earlier, if they can literally rebuild a human being on a genetic level to become a Space Cat, surely they must be able to enhance the human genome without turning people into Space Cats? One would assume that would be easier to do.
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Re: Earth gets drawn into an alien conflict (RAR!)

Postby bilateralrope » 2017-02-11 06:18am

Tribble wrote:Given that the Space Cats have genetic modification tech, the idea that their species is inherently superior is a dubious one at best. How much is it due to natural genetics vs their tech? As noted earlier, if they can literally rebuild a human being on a genetic level to become a Space Cat, surely they must be able to enhance the human genome without turning people into Space Cats? One would assume that would be easier to do.

The conversion would likely be easier. But there are other factors that complicate matters:
- A machine built for comfortable human use isn't likely to be as comfortable for non-humans. Making multiple designs for each species is possible, but at additional overhead. We are talking about a civilization that is at war. Having everyone of the same species will simplify logistics.
- I can see a few mixed species couples wanting children. A process that leaves both potential parents the same species means they can have their own children. Some will take up that offer, even if neither person was a Space Cat in the first place.
- It simplifies the design of schools if the schools are expecting the majority of their students to be of the same species. The same goes for doctors.


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