Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

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Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Bedlam » 2017-01-30 05:55pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/entries/43787cd6-f1de-4264-a509-d387d9a89c4b

The next regeration is apparently going to take place in this years Christmas special.

I think Capaldi's had a good run as an actor although he's been given some stinking stories to work with here and there. Three years seems a fair run (about the average I think) so it looks like the 2018 seasons going to be a complete restart with both a new lead actor and show runner, I don't know if they're going to keep the companion or not.

I guess now is the time to reopen the debate or having a female or non white doctor.

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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Iroscato » 2017-01-30 06:09pm

Ah Jesus, another Christmas Special regen?

Really sad to see him go, he was without a doubt my favourite Doctor so far. Would've been nice to see one Moffat-less series without him.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby JLTucker » 2017-01-30 08:04pm

You know, I don't have the sad feeling I got when Matt Smith left the show. I became sad AFTER binging all of his work prior to the release series eight. I didn't keep up with SMith's run while it was on TV. I've kept up with Capaldi but I am not sad to see him go. He's a good Doctor, don't get me wrong, but series eight is so mediocre that the fantastic series nine can't erase it. Even the Christmas special last year sucked! How do you make a Christmas special not feel like a Christmas special?

I'm somewhat sad to see Moffat go since I think 4/5 seasons he helmed are amazing. I would like for him to guest write like he did with Russel T. Davies ran the series.

Doctor Who will be interesting after the upcoming series.

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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-30 10:08pm

Aww shit.

I love Capaldi. Purely on the level of his performance as an actor, he has become my favourite Doctor of all of late (Nine is probably my favourite as a character, while Eleven will always hold a special place in my heart because it was under him that I first became a big fan of the show, and I feel that he's the one I know best).

He has had an uphill struggle against some of Moffat's crappier scripts of later, and I had hoped to see him get a Moffatless year or two at least to see what he could do under another head writer.

I just hope he chose to step down, as opposed to being pressured out, given the recent rumours that they wanted to replace him with a younger, sexier Ten-wannabe. :roll: And I hope he gets a chance to show up in a multi-Doctor special or two down the line.

Well, I'll throw out my support for a female Doctor once again.

And yeah, it seems three years (or rather, three full seasons) as become the standard run for the new series.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-30 10:14pm

Seriously, if you ever doubt Capaldi's awesomeness, just watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl9pTDK8PAk
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-01-31 03:53am

The Romulan Republic wrote:
And yeah, it seems three years (or rather, three full seasons) as become the standard run for the new series.


IIRC That was pretty much the average in old Who as well. The Fourth Doctor was the notable exception.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-01-31 07:11am

Plenty Of speculation on replacements is popping up already.

You'll be happy to know that lots of black people and women are on those lists TRR.

Not that I believe the lists are at all accurate at this stage. Mostly a bunch of fanwank casting. I'd wager it'll go to a relative unknown. (Though it didn't last time)
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Gandalf » 2017-01-31 07:57am

It's good to see that Moffat is going. As a writer he's okay, but as a showrunner he's infuriating.

Capaldi is a great example of what a great actor can do with less than great writing. He was screwed from the start by being "Clara's crazed uncle," and it all went downhill from there. They aimed high with him and fucked it up. Personally, I would have preferred Malcolm Tucker in space. :P

I look forward to the waves of merch for the next guy, and whatever story they use to put him on a million bedroom posters.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Joun_Lord » 2017-01-31 12:17pm

I like Capaldi's Who, probably more then any of the other recents Doctors but his run was really weighed down by some stinkers. It really sucks that I've heard several people say that Capaldi fits his run because its old and tired.

The fact any of his run was enjoyable as it was is purely a credit to his acting abilities. It takes some real talent to take a steaming pile of crap and temporarily make you forget the smell.

Whoever replaces him (cough Ildris Elba cough) be it some heart throb that will sell dolls and lunchboxes or someone else, the real question of whether or not the show will be good is how the showrunner and head writer of the incoming series will be. Pretty much all the actors and actresses with the exception of the One Direction kid could probably be fantastic as the Doctor (though I'd dislike previous Doctors taking the lead role). Richard Ayoade and James Corden could probably do a funny Doctor while others like Elba and Damian Lewis could probably give a more dramatic spin on the role. Some of the ladies might be interesting, Olivia Colman in particular would be good if for nothing else then to do the "Doctor borrows other's faces" thing as she was 11's freshman outing.

But if they are given nothing good to work with then even the best actor or actress isn't going to be able to save the show, atleast for me personally.

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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Prometheus Unbound » 2017-01-31 12:36pm

Maybe Doctor Who needs a rest for a while.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-01-31 12:44pm

It had this year off.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-31 12:59pm

Crazedwraith wrote:Plenty Of speculation on replacements is popping up already.

You'll be happy to know that lots of black people and women are on those lists TRR.

Not that I believe the lists are at all accurate at this stage. Mostly a bunch of fanwank casting. I'd wager it'll go to a relative unknown. (Though it didn't last time)


Precedent says they'll probably go for someone at least relatively unknown, yes.

Which, honestly, might be for the best for the show. A more well-known actor will demand more money, without necessarily being any more skilled at the craft than an unknown. Hell, I've known people working for free in amateur theatre who are just as good as most highly-paid TV stars.

As to race and gender, Doctor Who is in a unique position: their is absolutely no reason why, due to the presence of regeneration, the Doctor has to be a specific race or gender, and it therefore seems only fair, and to the benefit of the series, to allow actors from all races and genders to audition so they have the widest range of talent to choose from.

Although if they have a single person in mind, I would like a female Doctor specifically, because the show has so built it up and foreshadowed it it would feel like a let down not to follow through. That said... I would not trust the current writing staff to handle it well. We'll have to see how things stand when Moffat is gone.

As to specific names:

Well, if they did want to go for someone "known", I recall Hayley Attwell expressed interest. Although I've long thought I'd like to see Michelle Dockery in the role (ever since I saw her in the TV adaptation of Hogfather).
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Prometheus Unbound » 2017-01-31 01:04pm

Crazedwraith wrote:It had this year off.


Maybe it needs a few more heh.

I dunno. I really liked it when it started. Tennant began to grate on me at the end there. Matthew was good for the first season. ... I dunno, Capaldi has his heart in it but... I dunno. I think they tried to do too much too soon. In 2005 when they rebooted it they went full force and haven't stopped. I think it's ran a bit out of steam.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-31 01:12pm

A few episodes aside, the writing has been mediocre to shit for years. That's the weak link.

The visuals are usually at least passable for TV SF. The music is nearly always excellent (God bless Murray Gold, the man deserves a knighthood if you ask me), and while some of the smaller roles have uneven acting, the major villains and companions are usually decently cast and acted, and we've never had a bad Doctor.

The weak link, when their is one, is the writing.

So I think any judgements on the future viability of Who should wait until the new head writer has had at least a season or two at the helm. Let's see if a new head writer can break the show out of the rut Moffat has gotten stuck in.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-01-31 02:13pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:Plenty Of speculation on replacements is popping up already.

You'll be happy to know that lots of black people and women are on those lists TRR.

Not that I believe the lists are at all accurate at this stage. Mostly a bunch of fanwank casting. I'd wager it'll go to a relative unknown. (Though it didn't last time)


Precedent says they'll probably go for someone at least relatively unknown, yes.

Which, honestly, might be for the best for the show. A more well-known actor will demand more money, without necessarily being any more skilled at the craft than an unknown. Hell, I've known people working for free in amateur theatre who are just as good as most highly-paid TV stars.


Quite. Additionally people tend to typecast more famous actors in their heads. Witness all the Malcolm Tucker as The Doctor jokes when he was cast. This is why most fan casting is rubbish to me. Like Richard Ayoade for example. Do fans want him for his acting skill? Or do they want Moss/Richard Ayoade the comedian as the Doctor?



As to race and gender, Doctor Who is in a unique position: their is absolutely no reason why, due to the presence of regeneration, the Doctor has to be a specific race or gender, and it therefore seems only fair, and to the benefit of the series, to allow actors from all races and genders to audition so they have the widest range of talent to choose from.


As a matter of strict ethics, you're right. There's not reason they can't nd it would be good for equality.

As a matter of trusting the writer's to do it well and the BBC to take that kind of risk with their cashcow franchise... I'm not at all optimistic.

Although if they have a single person in mind, I would like a female Doctor specifically, because the show has so built it up and foreshadowed it it would feel like a let down not to follow through. That said... I would not trust the current writing staff to handle it well. We'll have to see how things stand when Moffat is gone.


I wouldn't agree there has been any foreshadowing. Establishing it can happen as a nod to the fans is not the same as promising or even implying it will happen to the Doctor.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-31 02:20pm

If it was just one or two things I might buy that, but I think that their's been a pattern for the last several years. Examples/possible examples include:

-The Doctor's Daughter, way back in Ten's run. The "daughter" in essence was a female Doctor, being cloned from Ten, and even followed in her father's footsteps by running of on adventures in a stolen ship at the end as I recall.

-The gag of Eleven momentarily thinking he'd regenerated as a girl.

-Explicite confirmation of gender changes in regeneration in "The Doctor's Wife".

-The Master (the most prominent Time Lord character other than the Doctor) regenerating as a woman, which I always sort of took as being, in part, a "test run" to see how the fans would react to a major established character changing gender in a regeneration.

-Clara stepping into the role of the Doctor at times, and even impersonating the Doctor on at least one occasion ("Dark Water", I believe).

-The Time Lord general switching race and gender when regenerating in "Hell Bent".

And probably some others I'm forgetting now.

Any one or two of these could be passed off as unrelated to a female Doctor, but I feel like they've been ramping things up, hinting at the possibility while getting the fan base used to the idea.

Edit: I'll allow that its possible that Moffat was just trolling the fan base or something. But I suspect that he was deliberately setting up the possibility of a female Doctor. The question, if so, would be weather that will carry over under a new head writer (albeit one who has worked with/under Moffat).
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Joun_Lord » 2017-01-31 09:01pm

Or its possible they were trying new things while trying to promote more female characters. Not saying its impossible or even unlikely they were teasing the possibility of a female Doctor but its also possible all those things could have been for other reasons (like fucking with fans), its unpossible to say for certain. These are events over long years and under multiple writers and I think atleast two head writers.

But its likely they are testing the water, seeing if fans would go all fan crazy over some changes, atleast for the more recent stuff. Jenny and other stuff that early probably have nothing to do with it.

Which raises the question, how have fans reacted to the possible hints? I know there was alot of anger over Clara playing the Doctor but I am pretty positive it had nothing to do with gender but the fact it had become the Clara Show also starring the Doctor and by the end of her run she as a character had gotten grating.

Missy I don't think much bad about her was said beyond two things. One, she seemed like a different character then the Master even removing her gender. Though I heard the same thing said about the manic John Sim's Master, felt more like a different character people were just calling the Master. Second, the sexual subtext that some considered insulting towards women and some considered insulting towards the character. Some people were angry that it seemed like as soon as the Master got a vagina she wanted to bone the Doctor, that that painted women in a bad light. Other bitched that it seemed insulting that a character that was supposed to be the Doc's friend turned enemy was now acting more like a scorned lover then anything else (though to be fair I heard the same argument said about Simm's Master too).

I think if handled tastefully (not as a joke or worse, not that I'd expect that but you never know) I doubt most true fans would really care. Really as long as the writing is good and the characters are enjoyable to watch while the acting is atleast competent I think few without an agenda would care who plays the Doctor. Some might bitch if the Doctor was played by a woman or a non-white actor but some people would bitch if its another boring white dude or bitch if he's not from England or not the right part or not their personal pic or not David Tennant, especially if he's not David Tennant, Tennant fans are a bit crazy. I think there'd be a riot if the Doctor was played by an American.

Me personally I'm rooting for Elba because he's just an awesome actor but I'm also more interested in who the Companion will be. Seems like what makes or breaks the show for me in recent years was the Companion. A good companion for an okay Doctor can still have the show good (11 and Amy) but even a good Doctor with a bad companion (a badly written one anyway) like 12 and Clara really didn't work for me.

And thats not blaming Jenna Coleman or Peter Capaldi, thats blaming the writers that stuck them with such shit stories.

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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-31 10:16pm

Well we have a new companion just coming in. Rather sucks for her if they ditch her after just one season just so the new guy can start over with a clean slate.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby JLTucker » 2017-01-31 10:46pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:Well we have a new companion just coming in. Rather sucks for her if they ditch her after just one season just so the new guy can start over with a clean slate.

I don't see that happening given how Jenna Coleman was handled. She came in during the second half of series seven and stayed for two more series, with a new Doctor.

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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-31 10:48pm

Hopefully that is the case.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby NecronLord » 2017-02-01 04:54am

I sure look forward to seeing the sexually available and submissive flirty female Doctor.

No, no I don't. Given what they turned 'Missy' into, no. And until the new writer shows they have the chops to fix Missy, either by letting Michelle Gomez put a bit of menace in her in some way other than her being a space bunny boiler, or recasting with a more menacing personality, they shouldn't be allowed to even float the idea of a female Doctor.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-02-01 05:45am

I'm not sure I would call Missy "submissive". I'd even say she had a bit of menace on occasion.

But I do think that Moffat has a deplorable tendency to writer his female characters (and, hell, some of his male characters) in the same manner, as eccentric, and yes, flirty, somewhat amoral fast-talkers who are involved in one or more unhealthy relationships. I don't know if he's projecting his own issues, or if he's got some kind of fetish for that character type, or if its just the only thing he knows how to write most of the time, or what, but... once was mildly interesting and entertaining. Twice I could live with. After that, it got annoying.

That said, I think this is very much a Moffat quirk, so unless the new head writer just follows his lead rather than trying to establish his own direction (unlikely I suspect, for ego's sake if nothing else), then I expect different.

That said... their are a lot of people who think they know how to write "strong female characters" and have no idea at all. Even having more female writers won't necessarily help, as their is so much culturally engrained sexism that even many female writers fall into a lot of the usual traps.

I'd actually say to take a cue from the new Star Wars films (yeah yeah, Rey's a Mary Sue wah wah wah, but then, the Doctor is arguably way more overpowered than her anyway). Say what you will about the Disney canon, they write female leads who are capable, and likeable, without over-sexualizing them or trying too hard, or going out of their way to make a point of "Oh look, we have a Strong Female Lead, aren't we edgy?", which is just insulting.

But as to sexualizing the Doctor... honestly, that ship sailed (in every meaning of the word "ship") with Tennant. ;)

Edit: And honestly, given the rumours they want the show to go back to "young and sexy", which would be worse for women: to a have a woman as the hero, even if she's a subject of sexual desire, or to have a another hot boy toy Doctor for the subordinate female companion to long for?

Yeah, not the best options, admittedly.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby NecronLord » 2017-02-01 06:26am

The Romulan Republic wrote:I'm not sure I would call Missy "submissive". I'd even say she had a bit of menace on occasion.


Among named characters, she chiefly menaces other women - IE she Catfights. Such as killing Oswald and throwing Clara down a pit. When around male characters she is... submissive. She's sexually libertine, but in a stereotypically feminine way, and even propositions daleks (whom she identifies as male) for no reason.

Michelle Gomez is an excellent actor, and far more menacing in Bad Education, a comedy, than she is as the Mistress.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-02-01 07:01am

That's basically Moffat's era in a nutshell (a few exceptions aside). Good actors struggling to deliver good performances in the face of mediocre to shit writing.
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Re: Peter Capaldi steps down as the Doctor

Postby Joun_Lord » 2017-02-01 03:19pm

Which I think really freaking sucks about Moffat's era. It had all the makings of some truly excellent television. Good actors, potentially good characters, potentially very interesting story lines both for individual episodes and the overarching story of the series, and a massively rich history to build on.

However the actors are given little to work with, even good characters turn sour, the story lines get convoluted with a few stories solving themselves, and a tendency to drown in its history to the point casual viewers might be lost.

Missy in particular was a great disappointment. She took everything wrong with Simm's version of the Master and added a unhealthy dose of sexism. Sure both the Master and Missy acted like angry ex lovers of the Doctor but it wasn't so blatant with the dude version, he still had menace, still came off as an enemy. Missy not so much.

But she is only one of many characters who sadly never got used to their full potential. Danny Pink was a really good example of this. While he started out kinda annoying by being part of the problem with the show turning into a Clara soap opera once he got interesting both in his interactions with Clara and with the Doctor and commenting on their relationship they unceremoniously killed him off.

I'm sure there are others I can't think of this second.

I really hope the next writer actually uses what they are given.


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