The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

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The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-19 06:42pm

In this scenario, the Force smiles on the doomed heroes of Rogue One, and sends them a powerful ally from another universe.

As Jyn and Cassian are talking to in Jedha, just before the battle breaks out, they encounter an eccentric older man with a Scottish accent and prominent eyebrows- none other than the 12th. Doctor, who's TARDIS has just landed in the city. He decides to tag along, and gets caught up in the events of Rogue One.

Can the Doctor save any of the Rogue One team? Or have a larger impact on the Star Wars galaxy? Assume that the events of the film do not constitute a fixed point in time.

My initial thoughts:

The Doctor likely gets taken with Jyn and Cassian by Saw's men, and escapes with them when the Death Star shows up. However, his TARDIS will likely be caught in the Death Star blast (though not directly hit). Its shields will likely allow it to survive, but it will be buried- the Doctor will have to wait to retrieve it, and then jump back in time to use it during the events of the film, presuming he can think of a way to do so without causing problems from crossing his timeline.

From their on out, he would almost certainly take Jyn's side over Cassian's on the subject of killing her father, and might be able to persuade the Rebel leadership to act more decisively on the Death Star intel. Likewise, he can probably help infiltrate Scarif, using his usual combination of wits and technobable. Presuming he accompanies Jyn, Cassian, and K-2SO (he would probably insist on doing so, and he'd probably be more useful in an infiltration/data theft mission than in the diversionary battle-direct combat isn't his strongest suite), then he likely ends up on the tower top with Jyn, Cassian, and Krennic. Weather they can escape the Death Star blast will depend on weather they can move faster than in canon, and weather the Doctor can pull off some time travel trickery to facilitate an escape.

If he has the TARDIS, of course, he can materialize right inside the data storage facility on Scarif, download the Death Star plans in about a minute, and leave, right through the shield.

From their... well, the Doctor doesn't tend to stick around to deal with the long-term aftermath/big picture of his actions. If he wanted to, he could play havoc with the entire Star Wars timeline, barring any fixed points/changing his own timeline. Though I would presume that both Anakin's fall/the rise of the Empire and Anakin's redemption/the fall of the Empire, at the least, involve fixed points.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby FaxModem1 » 2017-01-19 07:19pm

Why would the 12th Doctor help soldiers? He's just as likely to condemn everyone for fighting a war at all, and leave them to it without a companion to get him to help enlisted people, even if they are fighting a noble cause.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-19 07:22pm

FaxModem1 wrote:Why would the 12th Doctor help soldiers? He's just as likely to condemn everyone for fighting a war at all, and leave them to it without a companion to get him to help enlisted people, even if they are fighting a noble cause.


Now, let's not straw man the Doctor here.

12 had some rather major personal issues with soldiers early on, but I got the sense that he largely worked past his dickishness after his first season- he seems more mellow and personable now in general. And while he'd probably chew out Cassian and the Alliance leadership (and especially Saw), I doubt he'd just ignore something like the Death Star.

And Jyn, at this point, isn't a solider- she's a petty criminal who was abducted, drafted, and lied to. He'd probably sympathize.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-19 08:21pm

Hmmm I will most definitely be correct if the Doctor wears some stupid hat - maybe one of those soft head tentacle headbands one wears when visiting Ryloth where Twi'leks at the spaceport go "ALOHA" and put head tentacles on tourists - and he will jump around screaming I AM THE DOCTOR I AM THE ONCOMING STORM and that will like make the Death Star shrivel and shrink to 120km in diameter out of fear and back away a little bit. Then Rory gets locked in some perpetual time chamber with Bor Gullet and they are only released ten million years into the future and they have to beat the Yuuzan Vong and get some future-weapon from Darth Shao Khan - possibly some incredible gigantic shoulder pads covered in spikes made out of holocrons made out of crystallized orphan blood - and bring it back to the past and use it to destroy the Death Star or time-seal it in a pocket hyperspace dimension somewhere near the KOTOR timeline.

Dash Rendar played by Captain Jack will have adventures through time and he will get naked and pull out a blaster pistol and shoot IG-88 with it.

Rose Tyler's mom Jackie will be a total chav and try to climb the social ladder by marrying some Hutt in Nar Shadda.

...and Jesus Christ the idea of this space super-privileged space lord going around and talking down to local resistance groups being massacrated and enslaved. Wow. :lol:

(It would've been nice if this Doctor would approach the Rebels, with all their warts and all, as he did Britain during the Blitz. I mean, let's be honest, Winston Churchill is a far greater shit eater than Saw Gerrera ever was... sure the cartoons had Saw nearly genocide the Geonosians... but still. I bet Churchill would've done the same thing, held a freaking blunderbuss at that Queen egg.)
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby FaxModem1 » 2017-01-19 09:23pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:Why would the 12th Doctor help soldiers? He's just as likely to condemn everyone for fighting a war at all, and leave them to it without a companion to get him to help enlisted people, even if they are fighting a noble cause.


Now, let's not straw man the Doctor here.

12 had some rather major personal issues with soldiers early on, but I got the sense that he largely worked past his dickishness after his first season- he seems more mellow and personable now in general. And while he'd probably chew out Cassian and the Alliance leadership (and especially Saw), I doubt he'd just ignore something like the Death Star.

And Jyn, at this point, isn't a solider- she's a petty criminal who was abducted, drafted, and lied to. He'd probably sympathize.


Or he could just say, "Not my problem", like he did with the dream lobsters. The 12th Doctor has a major morality problem, and without a companion to keep him in check, he is, at best, apathetic, and at worst, a danger to good people.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-19 09:28pm

Question: Have you watched the 12th. Doctor past his first season? Because he seems a lot less like that now, at least to me, than he did at the start of his run (when he was a Sixth Doctor-level asshole).

And mass extermination of innocents is something that generally gets his attention.

Edit: Frankly, I also think getting away from Clara was good for him. They brought out the worst in each other more than she brought out the good in him.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby Tribble » 2017-01-19 10:50pm

If the Doctor decides to get involved and survives the initial battle, the Death Star is going to have a very short life span. "Giant Planet Killer" is the kind of thing the Doctor tries to stop. The Doctor might not even need to download/steal the plans depending on the TARDIS's scanning capabilities as it might be capable of identifying the vulnerability of the Death Star's main reactor on its own. Either way it should be trivially easy for him to destroy it afterwards if he wanted to (and he likely would given its nature)- for example he could materialise the TARDIS right over the exhaust port and chuck a bomb down it.

The only thing holding the Doctor back in this scenario is his own motivations - if the events are "fixed points in time" for example he might be a lot more reluctant to act.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-19 11:15pm

I wonder why in the case of not-Dalek-grade threats, like Cybermen or Sontarans, the Doctor doesn't just use the TARDIS to do crazy shit and like timey wimey ridiculousness to... deplete their ammo supplies or whatever?
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby PREDATOR490 » 2017-01-20 12:07am

If you are assuming the Doctor is the typical god character portrayed in his own universe - Then he will wave his sonic screwdriver at the Death Star causing it to explode.

If you are actually going to be reasonable about the Doctor - Removing him from his own universe without the god character complex could easily nail him to the wall.

With the TARDIS - The Doctor is capable of pretty much anything from zipping onto the Death Star with a gigantic bomb and out before anyone had a clue he was there. He can potentially travel anywhere he wants, whenever he wants. The only limiting factor is the pre-assumption that the TARDIS will actually work in a different universe. The last time they had a reality hop, the TARDIS died.

The issue is the Doctor rarely does such things and his erratic behaviour is unpredictable to the point he literally COULD just say 'Fuck This' and leave.

Without the TARDIS - The Doctor has the sonic plot device and... rarely anything else that is not plot gifted. The Doctor is a 'genius' in his own universe and has the ultimate advantage in living for thousands of years with fore-knowledge and hindsight of it's history and technology. No reason for the Doctor to have any knowledge of the history or technology of Star Wars which leaves him at a severe intellectual disadvantage.
The Doctor may not even be able to speak to anyone because the TARDIS can only translate languages it understands AND if he is cut off from the TARDIS on a galactic adventure then that translation ability will be lost.


I could MAYBE see the Doctor being roped into saving the father but I fully expect the Doctor to be moaning about everyone carrying weapons and fighting.

Of course: The only really good bit about putting the Doctor in this universe is to see him running into Vader.
I fully expect Vader to tear the Doctor to pieces when the Doctor gives his branded bullshit talk. Just MAYBE the Doctor can use his sonic screwdriver to mess with Vader's suit but the Doctor has no reason to have protection from the Force, just like those poor rebels on the ship.

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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby Tribble » 2017-01-20 12:46am

With the TARDIS - The Doctor is capable of pretty much anything from zipping onto the Death Star with a gigantic bomb and out before anyone had a clue he was there. He can potentially travel anywhere he wants, whenever he wants. The only limiting factor is the pre-assumption that the TARDIS will actually work in a different universe. The last time they had a reality hop, the TARDIS died.


Generally the assumption in scenarios is that tech works normally unless otherwise stated by the OP.

Also, in-universe the state of the TARDIS after jumping realities / universes seemed dependant on a few factors. Apparently Pre-Time War era reality jumping was a lot easier (and IIRC the Doctor did it a couple of times but I don't remember the episodes off the tip of my head). The degree of control also may play a role. IIRC the reality hop in "Rise of the Cybermen" was caused by Mickey overdoing something which caused the TARDIS to collide with the edge of the Time Vortex. When the Doctor deliberately took the Tardis to the "House" universe the trip seemed a lot easier.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-20 06:00am

Tribble wrote:If the Doctor decides to get involved and survives the initial battle, the Death Star is going to have a very short life span. "Giant Planet Killer" is the kind of thing the Doctor tries to stop. The Doctor might not even need to download/steal the plans depending on the TARDIS's scanning capabilities as it might be capable of identifying the vulnerability of the Death Star's main reactor on its own. Either way it should be trivially easy for him to destroy it afterwards if he wanted to (and he likely would given its nature)- for example he could materialise the TARDIS right over the exhaust port and chuck a bomb down it.


Possibly, though simply engaging something with the TARDIS in space combat isn't really his style, and the TARDIS doesn't have much, if anything, in the way of weaponry.

Their is also the possibility of being separated from the TARDIS, which cuts his abilities in half right their.

Although like I said, with the TARDIS he could probably waltz right through Scarif's defences like they weren't their. The only plausible threat would be a Dark Side Force user sensing through the Force that he was going to be their being in place when he arrived. Vader or Palpatine, and probably one of the Inquisitors, could kill the Doctor, if they went straight to lethal force instead of making the usual Who villain mistake and giving the Doctor time to talk to technobabble his way out of the problem.

But then, I imagine they'd want to interrogate him to figure out how he broke through the defences and how the TARDIS works- Palpatine needs his UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!, and what greater power than mastery of Time itself?

The only thing holding the Doctor back in this scenario is his own motivations - if the events are "fixed points in time" for example he might be a lot more reluctant to act.


Fixed points seem to be fairly rare, and what causes one isn't always apparent- sometimes some seemingly relatively small events are fixed, while a much bigger event is not.

Like I said, I would presume that the rise and fall of the Empire involve fixed points, but I am going to say that for the purposes of this thread, the events of Rogue One do not.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I wonder why in the case of not-Dalek-grade threats, like Cybermen or Sontarans, the Doctor doesn't just use the TARDIS to do crazy shit and like timey wimey ridiculousness to... deplete their ammo supplies or whatever?


The Doctor rarely uses his capabilities to anything like their full potential. Partly, that just has to be put down to his personality- he's not stupid, but he's easily distracted and rather selfish at times, and he's more interested than exploring the universe, and helping out with problems in passing, than using his abilities to their maximum potential for military or political purposes.

He's also philosophically adverse to taking power for himself, probably all the more so after the Time War.

This is the only way you can explain it, because really... even for a time travel show, Doctor Who is inconsistent.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-01-20 08:38am

I guess it is some metaphilosophy where he believes - and is generally shown to be in the right by the narrative - that it is for the best if he holds back and the locals or his companions contribute a lot to help resolving the situation? On one hand you state it really negatively and that's true, on the other hand it's also him acting on good faith and also avoiding abusive abuse of "cheating" powers that might lead him down the path of being someone like The Master... and yes we can rightly go "oh you ass you're letting unnecessary deaths happen because of this philosophical crap?" but this eldritch ageless timeless being of incomparable powers does realize the clear and present danger of him being a super space-time tyrant!
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby Crazedwraith » 2017-01-20 08:42am

Do you want to know what would happen in a versus no character shields style thing? He gets shot a lot, probably.

What to know what happens in fanfic 'proper story' probably once he learns the flaw is in the reactor he infiltrates the Death Star and sabotages so it will blow up when they try to use the superlaser. Goes elsewhere, warns them and as he's warning they try to superlaser him and blow themselves up.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-20 09:32am

Crazedwraith wrote:Do you want to know what would happen in a versus no character shields style thing? He gets shot a lot, probably.


Well, I doubt he'd fair any worse than the main cast, though admittedly they all died. He's certainly got the intelligence, experience, and technology to be a difficult opponent, and unlike them, he can regenerate (not that that'll help him if he gets shot down by a horde of stormtroopers).

But as I said before, I think that the Empire would probably want to interrogate him if they had the first clue who he was.

What to know what happens in fanfic 'proper story' probably once he learns the flaw is in the reactor he infiltrates the Death Star and sabotages so it will blow up when they try to use the superlaser. Goes elsewhere, warns them and as he's warning they try to superlaser him and blow themselves up.


Under Moffat, he'd probably get a fast-talking, somewhat amoral young woman from modern Earth as his companion, give some over the top speech, and then win through a plot-hole filled manipulation of time which reuses (less effectively) tropes from various previous Moffat episodes.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-20 09:40am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I guess it is some metaphilosophy where he believes - and is generally shown to be in the right by the narrative - that it is for the best if he holds back and the locals or his companions contribute a lot to help resolving the situation? On one hand you state it really negatively and that's true, on the other hand it's also him acting on good faith and also avoiding abusive abuse of "cheating" powers that might lead him down the path of being someone like The Master... and yes we can rightly go "oh you ass you're letting unnecessary deaths happen because of this philosophical crap?" but this eldritch ageless timeless being of incomparable powers does realize the clear and present danger of him being a super space-time tyrant!


Oh, their are reasons why, in-universe, the Doctor does what he does, certainly. Partly principle, partly fear, and partly... well, its a big universe, and even the Doctor can't be everywhere at once, so its not surprising that he doesn't stick around too long.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby FaxModem1 » 2017-01-20 09:41am

Let's consider the consequences of it being the Doctor, and not Luke Skywalker, destroying the Death Star in some act of plot.

If the Empire doesn't know that it's an alien from an alternate universe, and not some rebel agent, then the manhunt begins for rebel agents everywhere. On the plus side, Alderaan is spared. Luke, however, remains a farmboy on Tatooine who might eventually join the Empire, and this means that the Emperor and Vader stay alive.

If they do know, however, what the Doctor is, then the Empire has an outside enemy to turn their propaganda on. Fear the Time Lord menace, for even one of them will come in and wreck entire fleets of Imperial might. They could even spin this in the Senate, and have a lot of panicked senators worrying about infiltrators, and rubber stamping any decrees the Emperor might have in regards to increased security for everyone's safety, etc.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-20 09:46am

FaxModem1 wrote:Let's consider the consequences of it being the Doctor, and not Luke Skywalker, destroying the Death Star in some act of plot.

If the Empire doesn't know that it's an alien from an alternate universe, and not some rebel agent, then the manhunt begins for rebel agents everywhere. On the plus side, Alderaan is spared. Luke, however, remains a farmboy on Tatooine who might eventually join the Empire, and this means that the Emperor and Vader stay alive.

If they do know, however, what the Doctor is, then the Empire has an outside enemy to turn their propaganda on. Fear the Time Lord menace, for even one of them will come in and wreck entire fleets of Imperial might. They could even spin this in the Senate, and have a lot of panicked senators worrying about infiltrators, and rubber stamping any decrees the Emperor might have in regards to increased security for everyone's safety, etc.


Wouldn't be the first time the unintended consequences of his actions have come back to haunt the Doctor.

I doubt Luke would stay hidden away for long, though. Even leaving aside the possibility (indeed, high likelihood) of the Will of the Force steering him towards a confrontation with his father, it seems that the Alliance top leadership's plan, once the fighting started in ernest, was to fetch Kenobi, and Kenobi would likely try to persuade Luke to join him. Likewise, Luke was already anti-Empire at the start of A New Hope, and since his childhood friend went to the Alliance, its plausible Luke would gravitate to them as well (unless located by the Empire first).

I also have a hard time imagining the Empire spreading around information about Time Lords- that seems like the sort of knowledge they'd want to keep a tight reign on, partly because they'd want his power for themselves, partly because Palpatine's not going to want to risk affecting the timeline unless its to his advantage, and partly because the Empire wouldn't want people to know that their was a semi-benevolent time god out their who could and would oppose them. Though I will allow that the Doctor might act in so overt a fashion that keeping it quite simply isn't possible.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby NecronLord » 2017-01-20 11:06am

FaxModem1 wrote:Let's consider the consequences of it being the Doctor, and not Luke Skywalker, destroying the Death Star in some act of plot.

If the Empire doesn't know that it's an alien from an alternate universe, and not some rebel agent, then the manhunt begins for rebel agents everywhere. On the plus side, Alderaan is spared. Luke, however, remains a farmboy on Tatooine who might eventually join the Empire, and this means that the Emperor and Vader stay alive.

If they do know, however, what the Doctor is, then the Empire has an outside enemy to turn their propaganda on. Fear the Time Lord menace, for even one of them will come in and wreck entire fleets of Imperial might. They could even spin this in the Senate, and have a lot of panicked senators worrying about infiltrators, and rubber stamping any decrees the Emperor might have in regards to increased security for everyone's safety, etc.


It's almost impossible to know...



On the flip side, if the Doctor can summon his TARDIS after the destruction of Jedha city - and he can recall it using the key after Time of the Doctor - then he can probably persuade Jyn, Chirrut and the others to let him use his ship. Going to Eadu and bypassing its defences is automatic, the Doctor has traditionally had a soft spot for kidnapped scientists and might well rescue all the Death Star design slaves. By the time Krennic gets there they'd all be gone.

All he has to do after all is hold up the old psychic paper to the stormtroopers on Eadu and - being weak minded - they're likely to start calling him Inquisitor or Emperor's Hand or some such.

Bring them back to Yavin IV, hand them over to Bail Organa, who then gets to take them to Senate and present proof that the Emperor has built a machine to obviate the Senate.

The senate then issues Order 65, and restores democracy, renames itself the Republic, and paints red stripes down the few Star Destroyers that remain on naval service while the surplus get parked in orbit around some burnt out dwarf star. They issue a recall for General Kenobi and Grand Master Yoda to re-establish the Jedi order and Palpatine and all his rotten cronies spend the rest of their days in the Citadel.

It sounds far fetched, but remember that was Organa & Mon Mothma's plan in the film, at least at one point. They're not stupid, perhaps that's feasible.

We can't really know which narrative is more likely.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby NecronLord » 2017-01-20 11:14am

PREDATOR490 wrote:The last time they had a reality hop, the TARDIS died.


Gallifrey Stands! - See my current Avatar.

That was said to be a problem because it was designed to tap power from its own universe and not the parallel one, but its primary power source was always linked in some way with the main Eye of Harmony on Gallifrey. In the old series, that it works just fine in other universes when it was drawing power from Gallifrey, and we've seen it works just fine for that since Gallifrey returned, too.

So yeah, that problem's solved.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-20 02:52pm

NecronLord wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:Let's consider the consequences of it being the Doctor, and not Luke Skywalker, destroying the Death Star in some act of plot.

If the Empire doesn't know that it's an alien from an alternate universe, and not some rebel agent, then the manhunt begins for rebel agents everywhere. On the plus side, Alderaan is spared. Luke, however, remains a farmboy on Tatooine who might eventually join the Empire, and this means that the Emperor and Vader stay alive.

If they do know, however, what the Doctor is, then the Empire has an outside enemy to turn their propaganda on. Fear the Time Lord menace, for even one of them will come in and wreck entire fleets of Imperial might. They could even spin this in the Senate, and have a lot of panicked senators worrying about infiltrators, and rubber stamping any decrees the Emperor might have in regards to increased security for everyone's safety, etc.


It's almost impossible to know...



On the flip side, if the Doctor can summon his TARDIS after the destruction of Jedha city - and he can recall it using the key after Time of the Doctor - then he can probably persuade Jyn, Chirrut and the others to let him use his ship. Going to Eadu and bypassing its defences is automatic, the Doctor has traditionally had a soft spot for kidnapped scientists and might well rescue all the Death Star design slaves. By the time Krennic gets there they'd all be gone.


One can't help but see parallels to Davros's bunker full of scientists in Genesis of the Daleks.

All he has to do after all is hold up the old psychic paper to the stormtroopers on Eadu and - being weak minded - they're likely to start calling him Inquisitor or Emperor's Hand or some such.


Heh, yeah.

Just better hope a real Dark Side agent doesn't show up.

Bring them back to Yavin IV, hand them over to Bail Organa, who then gets to take them to Senate and present proof that the Emperor has built a machine to obviate the Senate.


I did not get the impression, from the film, that going to the Senate with proof was ever a real plan or even necessarily a viable option, but a line that was fed to Jyn so she would go along with them while they plotted to assassinate her father. It seemed pretty clear to me that as far as the Alliance's top leadership was concerned, the time for political discourse was past.

But the Doctor might feel differently, of course.

The senate then issues Order 65, and restores democracy, renames itself the Republic, and paints red stripes down the few Star Destroyers that remain on naval service while the surplus get parked in orbit around some burnt out dwarf star. They issue a recall for General Kenobi and Grand Master Yoda to re-establish the Jedi order and Palpatine and all his rotten cronies spend the rest of their days in the Citadel.


Highly unlikely. Palpatine, I think, had too many loyalists and was too well-intrenched then to realistically be taken without large scale fighting. Especially since he has a working Death Star. Remember that it was probably only days after the events of the film that the Senate was dissolved and the Empire transitioned to ruling via the Tarkin Doctrine alone.

It sounds far fetched, but remember that was Organa & Mon Mothma's plan in the film, at least at one point. They're not stupid, perhaps that's feasible.


See above. My guess is that their's likely a Galactic Civil War no matter what. The only questions are how big, how long, who's on each side, and who ultimately comes out on top.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby Parallax » 2017-01-20 04:49pm

"The only limiting factor is the pre-assumption that the TARDIS will actually work in a different universe. The last time they had a reality hop, the TARDIS died."

On the other hand, the TARDIS has been to various other universes and pocket dimensions without a problem. E-Space springs to mind, where the only problem the TARDIS experienced was that the co-ordinates system thought it was in the 'real' universe still. It's only been the new series where the TARDIS has shown any issues about travelling other realities.

As for this scenario? The Doctor joining forces with a team of rag tag rebels to fight a tyrannical empire? It sounds like a normal Tuesday for the Doctor to me. The number of times wherein the Doctor has been in a very similar scenario are too many to recount, honestly. By the time of the 8th Doctor, and I'm referring to the novel The Gallifrey Chronicles, taking down interstellar evil empires was a mere prelude to the real story. We even saw a glimpse at this sort of thing when the 11th Doctor blew a Cyber Fleet to nothing while searching for Amy Pond - it was portrayed as an easy act and just a story prelude.

The TARDIS gets buried? We've seen the returns of the Hazard Avoidance Detection System of late, so there's a good chance the TARDIS has parked itself nearby. It HADS hasn't activated (and it did do something stupid in that ice warrior/submarine ep) then we've seen the Doctor summon the TARDIS with just the key before. Even the head of the Papal Mainframe knew he could do it and took the key off him. And why the 11th Doctor had a wig.

If the TARDIS is available, then the Doctor wins pretty easily. Taking out the Death Star is a easy job, from landing in a crucial system area and waving The Sonic(tm) about or even, taking a cue from Creature From the Pit, towing the Death Star to wherever he damn well pleases. Side question: What speed does the Death Star possess? I do mean non-hyperdrive obviously.

If the TARDIS is, for whatever reason, unavailable then it takes longer. Infiltration should work, at least for a while, thanks to the psychic paper. As soon as he gets access to even vaguely important systems then The Sonic (tm) or handy Reversal of the Neutron Flow (tm) sabotage does the trick.

I can see the 12th Doctor getting into arguments with several of the rebels. I can assume the Doctor will not take "the force is with me, I am one with the force" philospophy as rational or scientific. He'd definitely get into an argument with Saw, regarding his more extreme methods (and Saw would almost certainly come back and call him a hypocrite).

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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby NecronLord » 2017-01-20 07:05pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:I did not get the impression, from the film, that going to the Senate with proof was ever a real plan or even necessarily a viable option, but a line that was fed to Jyn so she would go along with them while they plotted to assassinate her father. It seemed pretty clear to me that as far as the Alliance's top leadership was concerned, the time for political discourse was past.
I got the feeling the general and Cassian were going behind Mon Mothma's back, I wonder if that's intentional?
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby FaxModem1 » 2017-01-20 08:04pm

Considering that in the new canon, Mon Mothma led a league of votes to disarm the New Republic while still in a cold war against the Galactic Empire, eventually leading to their capital's destruction by a few fanatics. I'm sure it's a safe bet that the Rebel Alliance had to do some gritty things over her head just so that the Rebellion would stay alive.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2017-01-21 02:14am

Parallax wrote:"The only limiting factor is the pre-assumption that the TARDIS will actually work in a different universe. The last time they had a reality hop, the TARDIS died."

On the other hand, the TARDIS has been to various other universes and pocket dimensions without a problem. E-Space springs to mind, where the only problem the TARDIS experienced was that the co-ordinates system thought it was in the 'real' universe still. It's only been the new series where the TARDIS has shown any issues about travelling other realities.


As I understand it from NecronLord's post, that's down to Gallifrey being destroyed, which is no longer an issue.

As for this scenario? The Doctor joining forces with a team of rag tag rebels to fight a tyrannical empire? It sounds like a normal Tuesday for the Doctor to me. The number of times wherein the Doctor has been in a very similar scenario are too many to recount, honestly. By the time of the 8th Doctor, and I'm referring to the novel The Gallifrey Chronicles, taking down interstellar evil empires was a mere prelude to the real story. We even saw a glimpse at this sort of thing when the 11th Doctor blew a Cyber Fleet to nothing while searching for Amy Pond - it was portrayed as an easy act and just a story prelude.


Yes. Although a large part of the Doctor's ability tends to depend on having full access to his technology, and his enemies not just shooting him on sight.

The TARDIS gets buried? We've seen the returns of the Hazard Avoidance Detection System of late, so there's a good chance the TARDIS has parked itself nearby. It HADS hasn't activated (and it did do something stupid in that ice warrior/submarine ep) then we've seen the Doctor summon the TARDIS with just the key before. Even the head of the Papal Mainframe knew he could do it and took the key off him. And why the 11th Doctor had a wig.

If the TARDIS is available, then the Doctor wins pretty easily. Taking out the Death Star is a easy job, from landing in a crucial system area and waving The Sonic(tm) about or even, taking a cue from Creature From the Pit, towing the Death Star to wherever he damn well pleases. Side question: What speed does the Death Star possess? I do mean non-hyperdrive obviously.


Not sure about Death Star speed, but as to towing... well, didn't he tow the Earth across interstellar space in Journey's End too?

Of course, the Death Star can actively resist being towed.

Interesting point about the TARDIS recall, though this seems a point on which the show is inconsistent (like most things, really).

If the TARDIS is, for whatever reason, unavailable then it takes longer. Infiltration should work, at least for a while, thanks to the psychic paper. As soon as he gets access to even vaguely important systems then The Sonic (tm) or handy Reversal of the Neutron Flow (tm) sabotage does the trick.


Yep.

I can see the 12th Doctor getting into arguments with several of the rebels. I can assume the Doctor will not take "the force is with me, I am one with the force" philospophy as rational or scientific. He'd definitely get into an argument with Saw, regarding his more extreme methods (and Saw would almost certainly come back and call him a hypocrite).


The Doctor may not believe in magic, but he's encountered enough weird psychic shit that he really ought to take the Force seriously, even if he doesn't regard it with any sort of religious reverence.

As to Saw, while the Doctor can certainly be called a hypocrite, that depends on how much Saw knows about his acts. And would Saw even bother to argue with him? He didn't seem like the kind of person to much care about a stranger's moral views of his actions.
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Re: The Doctor on Jedha (Rogue One spoilers).

Postby Parallax » 2017-01-21 05:28pm

I'm not sure if the Death Star could resist being towed by the TARDIS. In Creature from the Pit, the TARDIS towed a neutron star that an alien race had decided to launch at a planet.

From Wiki:
The Doctor has rescued the Tythonian just in time – it seems Tythonus has declared war on Chloris over the missing ambassador, and has despatched a neutron star to collide with Chloris’ star and destroy the system. It is due to collide within the next twenty-four hours. Working against the odds, Erato, from his reconstituted spacecraft, weaves a metal covering around the star, enabling the Doctor, using the TARDIS gravity beam, to draw the star off course and neutralise the danger.

Because nothing says overkill like chucking neutron stars at a planet. The mass and momentum the neutron star must have had ...


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