Suprising shared universes

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

User avatar
gigabytelord
Padawan Learner
Posts: 472
Joined: 2011-08-23 07:49pm
Location: Chicago IL. formerly Livingston TX.

Suprising shared universes

Postby gigabytelord » 2016-12-17 11:25am

So I just did some accidental reading and found an article that states that Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the Alien series, the Predator series, Senerity/Firefly, Bladrunner, Soldier, and the Escape from *insert city here* movies are all in the same shared universe.
Now I know minor crossovers and easter-eggs happen all the time that link two or more films simply because the same director/writer/producer happened to have worked on both so I'm taking it with a massive grain of salt but I was wondering if you gents can think of any films (from your vast pool of knowledge), sci-fi specifically but any film mention would be accepted both known and less well known, that have been confirmed to share the same universe as other works.
Also what effects these possible surprising crossovers might have in these wider shared universes.

User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11171
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Supprising shared universes

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-12-17 03:02pm

Well, if you do a little work, you can fit pretty much anything you want into the Wold Newton universe, going all the way back into the 1800s...

Alan Moore's League of Extraordinary Gentlemen obviously has a lot of stuff overlapping. A ridiculous amount, actually.

I've always entertained a bit of an idle fantasy that all the awesome 80s-90s TV shows share an universe. A-Team, Knight Rider, Macgyver, Family Ties, Die Hard... etc.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.

Q99
Jedi Master
Posts: 1262
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Q99 » 2016-12-17 04:09pm

gigabytelord wrote:So I just did some accidental reading and found an article that states that Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the Alien series, the Predator series, Senerity/Firefly, Bladrunner, Soldier, and the Escape from *insert city here* movies are all in the same shared universe.


The article writer seems like they're taking liberties, I don't see how the mono-system Firefly works with the 'people go back and forth between systems,' of Bladerunner/Soldier/Alien/etc..

Bladerunner and Soldier are definitely linked, Alien and Predator similarly. Escape from (X)... I can't think of any specific links.

Though for a real one, and a weird one at that-

Spy Kids and Machete.

The Spy Kid's uncle Machete really is the one who also has the grindhouse-style adventures in his movies.

User avatar
madd0ct0r
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5335
Joined: 2008-03-14 07:47am

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby madd0ct0r » 2016-12-17 04:33pm

Dr who and Hitchhikers guide to the universe are linked I believe
"Aid, trade, green technology and peace." - Hans Rosling.
"Welcome to SDN, where we can't see the forest because walking into trees repeatedly feels good, bro." - Mr Coffee

User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2552
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby TithonusSyndrome » 2016-12-17 04:50pm

gigabytelord is referring, I believe, to the Tommy Westphall hypothesis; that the bulk of television fictional universes are actually the product of an autistic child's private imagination as per the series finale of St. Elsewhere, a 1980's medical procedural drama linking the X-Files, Seinfeld, Friends, Arrested Development, Knight Rider and more series than I can remember into one place. There's more than one map of the connected franchises, though, and a lot of them have stronger ties than others; for instance, Knight Rider is asserted in some renderings of the hypothesis to be in the same universe as Star Trek, merely based on an allusion to an off-screen company in both franchises. Unlike the appearance of an actual character crossing over from one show to another, like the government agent who shows up in St Elsewhere, Arrested Development, etc, these kinds of easter eggs are probably better explained in-universe as being themselves allusions to the show inspired by the existence of said media in that franchise. Accepting all of these franchises into one house creates irresolvably vast contradictions, like the Alien and Star Trek universes somehow being shared, etc.

See for yourself:

https://thetommywestphall.wordpress.com/
Image

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11804
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-12-17 06:10pm

madd0ct0r wrote:Dr who and Hitchhikers guide to the universe are linked I believe


Ten alluded to meeting Arthur Dent once.

Marvel and DC have had official crossovers with each other. They've also done crossover comics with Star Trek.

Star Trek has done a comics crossover with Doctor Who.

Now, Star Trek canon policy, I believe, is that only the TV shows (not counting the animated series) and films are canon, generally. But Doctor Who doesn't really have a canon policy, and I'm not sure what the current policy is for DC and Marvel.

Arguably, while they would not be a shared universe under Trek canon, you could make a good argument that Marvel, DC, Who (and therefore, apparently, HGttG), and Star Trek are all in a shared universe.

Edit: At least in Who canon.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11804
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby The Romulan Republic » 2016-12-17 06:14pm

I'll add that as far as the Buffyverse and Alien/Predator (which are really one franchise at this point) are concerned...

Well, I'd have to watch it again to be certain, but I think I recall that Weyland Yutani was mentioned as one of Wolfram and Hart's clients on Angel.
"Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy." - Lincoln.

Q99
Jedi Master
Posts: 1262
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Q99 » 2016-12-18 04:02am

The Romulan Republic wrote:I'll add that as far as the Buffyverse and Alien/Predator (which are really one franchise at this point) are concerned...

Well, I'd have to watch it again to be certain, but I think I recall that Weyland Yutani was mentioned as one of Wolfram and Hart's clients on Angel.



Yea, I think that's the extent of the connection.

User avatar
gigabytelord
Padawan Learner
Posts: 472
Joined: 2011-08-23 07:49pm
Location: Chicago IL. formerly Livingston TX.

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby gigabytelord » 2016-12-18 06:01am

TithonusSyndrome wrote:gigabytelord is referring, I believe, to the Tommy Westphall hypothesis; that the bulk of television fictional universes are actually the product of an autistic child's private imagination as per the series finale of St. Elsewhere, a 1980's medical procedural drama linking the X-Files, Seinfeld, Friends, Arrested Development, Knight Rider and more series than I can remember into one place. There's more than one map of the connected franchises, though, and a lot of them have stronger ties than others; for instance, Knight Rider is asserted in some renderings of the hypothesis to be in the same universe as Star Trek, merely based on an allusion to an off-screen company in both franchises. Unlike the appearance of an actual character crossing over from one show to another, like the government agent who shows up in St Elsewhere, Arrested Development, etc, these kinds of easter eggs are probably better explained in-universe as being themselves allusions to the show inspired by the existence of said media in that franchise. Accepting all of these franchises into one house creates irresolvably vast contradictions, like the Alien and Star Trek universes somehow being shared, etc.

See for yourself:

https://thetommywestphall.wordpress.com/


While that sounds like an interesting read, which I'm sure to take advantage of, I'm really just musing. The question itself was sparked when I read one of those silly articles off some geek site, I can't remember if it was cracked or something else, but it did get me to thinking about it. One of the things I find most appealing is the possibility that Repilcants (Bladerunner) and Androids (Alien) exist in the same universe and that the corporations that created them were direct competitors or the destruction reeked upon earth in alien 3 (I think?) is what caused the exodus to what we know as "the 'verse" from Firefly. Nothing overly complicated just whimsical ramblings.

Elheru Aran wrote:I've always entertained a bit of an idle fantasy that all the awesome 80s-90s TV shows share an universe. A-Team, Knight Rider, Macgyver, Family Ties, Die Hard... etc.


Head canon accepted.

Q99
Jedi Master
Posts: 1262
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Q99 » 2016-12-18 06:58am

gigabytelord wrote:While that sounds like an interesting read, which I'm sure to take advantage of, I'm really just musing. The question itself was sparked when I read one of those silly articles off some geek site, I can't remember if it was cracked or something else, but it did get me to thinking about it. One of the things I find most appealing is the possibility that Repilcants (Bladerunner) and Androids (Alien) exist in the same universe and that the corporations that created them were direct competitors or the destruction reeked upon earth in alien 3 (I think?) is what caused the exodus to what we know as "the 'verse" from Firefly. Nothing overly complicated just whimsical ramblings.


Aliens and Bladerunner work pretty well with each other, androids and replicants and all, some similar themes, but that doesn't work so well with Firefly not going beyond their system or even going to the edge ('the black').

Aliens and Bladerunner each already have offworld colonies after all, and intersystem ships.

User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11171
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-12-18 12:56pm

The Romulan Republic wrote:Marvel and DC have had official crossovers with each other. They've also done crossover comics with Star Trek.


Minor correction: Almost all of these are outside of continuity and have no effect on the various universes. The only 'canon' crossover between Marvel and DC is JLA/Avengers from the 90s, and even that one is fishy because a lot of the superhero fights in it were decided by voters. That's why Wolverine took down Lobo, which simply shouldn't have happened. Any other crossover between the two universes falls into 'What If...' territory for Marvel and 'Elseworlds' for DC, technically alternate universes that have no effect on the main DC continuity. Examples of this are the Captain America/Batman crossover, Spider-Man and Superman, Batman and Hulk, etc.

The Star Trek crossovers are also outside of continuity as far as I know.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.

Q99
Jedi Master
Posts: 1262
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Q99 » 2016-12-18 04:28pm

Elheru Aran wrote:Minor correction: Almost all of these are outside of continuity and have no effect on the various universes. The only 'canon' crossover between Marvel and DC is JLA/Avengers from the 90s, and even that one is fishy because a lot of the superhero fights in it were decided by voters. That's why Wolverine took down Lobo, which simply shouldn't have happened. Any other crossover between the two universes falls into 'What If...' territory for Marvel and 'Elseworlds' for DC, technically alternate universes that have no effect on the main DC continuity. Examples of this are the Captain America/Batman crossover, Spider-Man and Superman, Batman and Hulk, etc.


You're mixing up two crossovers. DC vs Marvel was the 90s, and non-canon.

JLA/Avengers was 00s, and canon, at least to the DC side, with the events largely unremembered by the characters but the cosmic egg at the end remaining and having an impact in later stories (there's also a fairly fitting fan-theory that Wanda's exposure to DC's chaos magic, which she described as stronger and more raw and had a lot of trouble controlling, was what helped set off her powers running wild in House of M, but there's no active confirmation like the DC side has).

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2016-12-18 10:24pm

Perhaps Firefly's post-SOLDIER/Blade Runner thing could be... some space-postapocalyptic thing. Maybe the Soldier/Blade Runner Earth underwent some collapse - maybe potentially after they failed to plunder this resource-rich moon full of telepathically-linked lifeforms and blue-skinned cat people who ruin the shit out of glass-canopied VTOL-craft ;) - and that set the stage for the Earth That Was mythos of Firefly.

I don't know how one reconciles the Blade Runner/Soldier altered-biology-organism and replicant stuff with the Alien-verse use of synthetic androids.

Maybe different parts of Earth - and space "zones" - have different laws regarding the use of replicants. If the USMC and Weyland-Yutani are prohibited from using replicants... if Weyland-Yutani's manufacturing of synthetic androids means that they'd look down on people and parties using the "competition's" replicants - then sure their territories would prefer the use of more-controllable androids. Whereas regions where replicants are fine might use them, like in some of the "off-world colonies."

Ironically the Tyrell Corporation's HQ is situated in the no-replicant zones of Earth. Maybe because they're hypocrites and they want their HQ as far away as possible from these potentially lethally-malfunctioning creations.

Hypothetically we might see Bishop and Ash-type synthetics paired with meatbag officers to hunt down more dangerous replicants! Maybe Deckard's dreams were known to Gaff because he was... ah, no, Deckard bled blood... too bad.

Or maybe Earth (That Was) has a blanket ban on both replicants and synthetic androids? Androids are easier to "ban" via programming...

MAYBE replicants first arose in this alternate Earth because... after Judgement Day and the Rise of the Machines and Skynet, and the Resistance's victory against the machines (and John Connor's destruction of the temporal tech)... distrust of AI led humans to invest more in synthetic biology (rooted in the tech Skynet used to create the T-800's meatbag-disguises!). And when replicants reached their limits and showed their instability, only then did people start developing synthetic android AI tech. After their robo-phobia waned.

Ha!
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2552
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby TithonusSyndrome » 2016-12-19 12:17am

Ok yeah, I looked it up and apparently Star Trek and the Buffyverse are supposedly connected on account of a defense contractor named "Yoyodyne", and Angel also references Weyland-Yutani in the same episode as well. If we're running with the idea that these are actually the same companies from the same continuity, rather than someone in the Buffyverse being Star Trek/Pynchon and Aliens fans, then like I said, we've found ourselves in a mess where we're supposed to accept that Aliens and Star Trek inhabit the same universe.

Add to that the fact that Yoyodyne is also referenced in the John Laroquette Show, which ties in to Fraiser, which ties in to Cheers, Seinfeld, the Degrassi franchise, Law & Order, etc... and you basically have something that can't be resolved even on the level of a joke.
Image

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2016-12-19 12:23am

The perpetual motion machine of Yoyodyne could have opened an interdimensional rift and only the likes of MIKE FALLOPIAN and Oedipa Maas and DR. HILARIOUS can discover the sinister multi-universal conspiracy that manifests itself in the TRISTERO graffiti said to be the sigil of an ancient postal service engaged in an underworld turf war with other mail services - possibly one that exists throughout the multiverse!

The Crying of Lot 49 GIGAJOULES.
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

User avatar
TithonusSyndrome
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2552
Joined: 2006-10-10 08:15pm
Location: The Money Store

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby TithonusSyndrome » 2016-12-19 12:40am

So that's why Postmaster-General Wilford Brimley abducted Kramer and interrogated him! The government had probably been watching Kramer ever since he very nearly exposed the project to breed pigmen as shock troops for the army!
Image

Q99
Jedi Master
Posts: 1262
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Q99 » 2016-12-19 05:17am

Yoyodyne is original a reference to 'V', btw. Then The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension picked it up, and Trek's use (small and hard to notice) is a reference to *that*.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:I don't know how one reconciles the Blade Runner/Soldier altered-biology-organism and replicant stuff with the Alien-verse use of synthetic androids.


That seems relatively easy. After all the problems caused by biological replicants and/or the recognition of them having rights, they ban the practice and go android.

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2016-12-19 05:22am

Q99 wrote:That seems relatively easy. After all the problems caused by biological replicants and/or the recognition of them having rights, they ban the practice and go android.


But the original use of bioreplicants was totally because of the rise of the machines due to Skynet! Maybe it was shortened due to unsung temporal interventions... so perhaps J-Day or its effects were stymied, so the war never lasts up to 2029... maybe Blade Runner LA's shitty climate and seemingly decimated biosphere is also due to the partial-Judgment Day...
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

User avatar
NeoGoomba
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3090
Joined: 2002-12-22 11:35am
Location: Upstate New York

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby NeoGoomba » 2016-12-19 07:44am

I'm always a fan of the fact that Conan the Barbarian also takes place alongside H.P. Lovecraft's stories.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know...tomorrow."
-Agent Kay

Q99
Jedi Master
Posts: 1262
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Q99 » 2016-12-20 06:27am

NeoGoomba wrote:I'm always a fan of the fact that Conan the Barbarian also takes place alongside H.P. Lovecraft's stories.


Oh yea, they actually exchanged letters and such and that was an official thing, wasn't it?


A weird thing is Conan's age is also official to Marvel Earth's past, though not the Cthulhu stuff.

User avatar
NeoGoomba
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3090
Joined: 2002-12-22 11:35am
Location: Upstate New York

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby NeoGoomba » 2016-12-20 04:17pm

Yeah, Lovecraft and Howard were buds.

Howard's Hyperborean age does lend itself well to Marvel's superheroes, but I can understand why the Lovecraftian bits may not fit as a whole. They should include some bleedthrough though, especially with the niche-popularity of the cosmic stuff that Dr. Strange and Silver Surfer regularly brought to the table in the 70's,
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know...tomorrow."

-Agent Kay

User avatar
Elheru Aran
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 11171
Joined: 2004-03-04 01:15am
Location: Georgia

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-12-20 06:06pm

NeoGoomba wrote:Yeah, Lovecraft and Howard were buds.

Howard's Hyperborean age does lend itself well to Marvel's superheroes, but I can understand why the Lovecraftian bits may not fit as a whole. They should include some bleedthrough though, especially with the niche-popularity of the cosmic stuff that Dr. Strange and Silver Surfer regularly brought to the table in the 70's,


Marvel does manage to fit Lovecraftian stuff, if not in name then in inspiration, in their Cosmic and... I don't know what you call it, Mystic? stuff. Like the Cancerverse is pretty messed up, and Shuma-Gorath is basically something like Yog-Sothoth or Azathoth.
It's a strange world. Let's keep it that way.

Q99
Jedi Master
Posts: 1262
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Q99 » 2016-12-20 06:34pm

Yea, there's plenty of Lovecraft-inspired stuff, they just don't use the cosmology or many of the bits.

User avatar
Omeros
Youngling
Posts: 65
Joined: 2005-09-06 12:16pm
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Omeros » 2016-12-27 08:39am

I once read a comic book Star Trek/Space:1999 crossover, although admittedly it wasn't a professional comic book but a semi-pro one.

Q99
Jedi Master
Posts: 1262
Joined: 2015-05-16 01:33pm

Re: Suprising shared universes

Postby Q99 » 2016-12-30 03:56pm

Here's one- Transformers/Doctor Who/Marvel.

For awhile Marvel UK put out books from all 3.

So there was this character, Death's Head (Who was a robotic Bounty Hunter- er, Freelance Peacekeeping Agent, Yes?). He tried to go after the bounty on Galvatron that Rodimus Prime put up, then later one on Rodimus, stuff happened involving Unicron, he lept into a time portal to escape....

... met The Doctor (7th regeneration). Who shrunk him to human-ish size, and after a few more encounters dumped him on the Baxter Building where the Fantastic Four live.

He's still an active Marvel character, though at some point offscreen he got big again.


Return to “Science Fiction”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests