Westworld Discussion Thread

[Guardsman Bass]

Anyone else watch this? It has a couple of interesting ideas it's juggling, and the premiere was good.
Spoiler

I think there's going to be a mid-season twist of some sort. Just in the premiere alone, they ended with Dolores lying to her interrogator and having the ability to kill a fly, one of the other robots going completely off program (although it didn't kill any guests), hints that Ed Harris' Gunslinger is on to something, cryptic talk from one of the employees about how "management" has something far more in mind for the robots than merely serving as an ultra-realistic LARP experience, and so forth. The next episode premiere included the Madam Maeve at the brothel waking up and going rogue in the laboratory.

That's a lot of fuses to light only for it to then take the full 9 episodes to blow up. Also, the 6th episode of the season is titled "The Adversary".

[Agent Fisher]

Watched it, liked it, gonna be following it. One thing I really liked was the music choices for certain scenes.

[Tsyroc]

Watched it, liked it, gonna be following it. One thing I really liked was the music choices for certain scenes.

Player piano versions of "Black Hole Sun" and "Paint it Black" were nice.

I saw the first episode and I am interested in seeing where it is going.

[Guardsman Bass]

They released the second episode today early! Supposedly they wanted to get it out versus having it run opposite the presidential debate.
Spoiler

More of a slow burn in this episode, with hints of a possible love triangle between the human guy, Dolores, and Teddy IMHO. And as shown in the trailer, Maeve woke up and went wild.

What was that thing at the end of the episode, the metal spire with the cross? Is Ford throwing something weird at the hosts, to see how they'll respond? And of course, the previews had tons of hints of stuff to come, like Dolores breaking bad alongside Teddy and others to rob coaches, a robot pushing a human through glass, and some weird stuff.

[Balrog]

From what I've seen thus far they're obviously not going with the standard "robit rebellion" cliché but I'm curious if they're going to stick with the "humans are just so awful compared to their creations" or throw a curveball in there.

Also -10 points for insufficient amount of T&A, did HBO learn nothing from Game of Thrones?

[Tsyroc]

From what I've seen thus far they're obviously not going with the standard "robit rebellion" cliché but I'm curious if they're going to stick with the "humans are just so awful compared to their creations" or throw a curveball in there.

Also -10 points for insufficient amount of T&A, did HBO learn nothing from Game of Thrones?

In the first episode it sure seemed like Ford thought humans had their day and only by creating something beyond them would they continue.

As for the lack of T&A. There was a big stink about the violence against women before the first episode came out. If it weren't for that stink I might have found The Gunslinger dragging Delores off to be very disturbing. Instead it was more of a "what, this is what they were bitching about".

It certainly is a fucked up scene but I am betting it serves a purpose in the overall story if it isn't only there to show how bad The Gunslinger is or what the hosts have been experiencing for years.

[Joun_Lord]

Watched the show so far, enjoying it. I like the fact they are spending just as much if not more time from the host's perspective. Was worried they were going to go with the tired as shit "humans are the real monsters" but so far have mostly avoided it. Humans and hosts are both for lack of a better term human, some are bastards and some are not. There are sympathetic characters both meatbags and toasters. There are villains on both sides including a villain who seems to have a penchant for rape be it teddy bears or robot women.

Most of the humans we meet do some awful things but it doesn't mean they are awful people. They are people playing a game, acting out terrible shit they normally wouldn't do and certainly wouldn't do to a "real" person. Someone who kills or rapes or kills and rapes a host is little worse then someone who does the same thing in Grand Theft Auto. Hosts are not real people, they are not sapient (atleast not until recently story wise if even then), they are physical versions of NPCs that populate any video game.

Though one has to wonder if the only reason they aren't sapient is because of the constant wipes. They really remind me of Gen 3 synths from Fallout 4 right down to their manner of construction. They are built to imitate humans in body and mind and when given a chance will became nearly indistinguishable from a person. When do they stop being a very convincing simulation of a person and become an actual person?

Philosophical bullshit aside, some things I enjoyed. The tech was interesting, high tech but still believable. The setting and music and general atmosphere are great. Acting is good, Ed Harris as the Man in Black is fucking awesome in a scary way that would make Yul Brenner proud.

Speaking of the Man in Black, really loved his reloading scene. The LeMat is one of my favorite weapons and to see it in such detail is nice. Would have preferred it not used to shoot a mother and threaten some kid but whatever.

[Balrog]

Speaking of the Man in Black, really loved his reloading scene. The LeMat is one of my favorite weapons and to see it in such detail is nice. Would have preferred it not used to shoot a mother and threaten some kid but whatever.

Isn't the LeMat a black-powder pistol though? Were there every real-life versions which used cartridges, or do you think the \W/ people figured "fuck it, let's Rule of Cool this thing"?

[Burak Gazan]

"Modern" reproductions of it in cartridge-firing models are available right now, so in Westworld's "future" they would probably be as well, likely in more detail or fancied-up as needed.

[Joun_Lord]

Speaking of the Man in Black, really loved his reloading scene. The LeMat is one of my favorite weapons and to see it in such detail is nice. Would have preferred it not used to shoot a mother and threaten some kid but whatever.

Isn't the LeMat a black-powder pistol though? Were there every real-life versions which used cartridges, or do you think the \W/ people figured "fuck it, let's Rule of Cool this thing"?

Checking IMFDB to confirm, they were originally black powder but like alot of pistols at the time its entirely possible it was converted to fire cartridges even if the type of conversion didn't exist at the time and LeMats conversions weren't common. Cartridge conversions done correct can be seen in alot of westerns like the Colt 1851 used by Clint Eastwood in Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

It is probably Rule of Cool though. Nobody wants to spend half their vacation fucking around with loading black powder weapons which can be tricky as fuck and time consuming. Presumably also would fuck with whatever smart bullets they use to keep guests from getting killed.

Which leads me to wonder, how the frack do they keep guests from being killed? The weapons available in the park seem really deadly, seem like unmodified actual firearms. They fire bullets, have to be reloaded, actually shoot no matter what, but for some reason they leaving gaping holes in the hosts but only bruise the guests. How is the ammo or gun or whatever able to distinguish between the very fleshy hosts and guests? How can the bullets be slowed down enough from the guns to only leave bruise like a paintball?

Compare the weapons to the original movie where the guns were like weird laser weapons with a sensor that prevented firing at humans (until the inevitable software glitch). The new guns can fire at people, just lose their momentum or something. Maybe special ammo with dial a yield powder loads? Full power for hosts but when the weapon detects a person it only uses enough power to be like a blank gun? Of course blank guns can still kill at close enough range. Even paintballs can kill in certain circumstances, certainly they can maim without the proper protection.

And that doesn't even get into the problems of other weapons. They have knives and stabbing weapons and I doubt you could make them smart. The protection for guests from other guests with guns is the gun won't kill, there ain't the same level of protection if Ed Harris decides to scalp somebody human with his knife. Presumably they have security on standby to prevent such things but as demonstrated by the host with the milk they take awhile to respond even with something running amok they should have complete monitoring of.

To say nothing of the possibility of guests getting into fist fights or bashing each other with heavy objects, guests trying to rape other guests, or anything else.

Presumably there is supposed to be a level of danger of involved but I doubt a theme park, especially one that has kids going, would operate very long if people can be raped or killed. Probably overthinking things.

[FaxModem1]

Watched the pilot. I am certainly intrigued. If I was in such a world, (and could afford a ticket, which seems to be pricy), I don't think I would really want to play such a game, as it'd be rather horrifying to go and try and play poker with a few card sharks, when all of a sudden some asshole player comes in and decides to horribly rape and kill them in front of me. I mean, sure, I could shoot him back, and bang, he pretends he's dead. But my whole experience is ruined and I'd probably have a bit of trauma from it all.

Heck, imagine a family affords tickets for a day, like the young family who meets Dolores while she's painting. What happens if someone like the Gunfighter happened by?

And that's only as a player. The horrors done to the 'Hosts', as they're gaining sentience, are cringeworthy. Still, really looking forward to watching the rest.

[Burak Gazan]

Something like simunition might explain guests getting shot and just having ouchies, but not the hosts. And as you say, forget about knives and stabbing weapons. Or anything , for that matter, as we just saw, a rock used (like an old RPG, prepare a rock!...) It might be one of those things they'll get around to explaining, after one of the guests ends up toasted. We'll see

[Balrog]

Starting to think Ed Harris might be part of whatever it is Anthony Hopkins is up to, seeing as he knew about Arnold and other information which was 'suppressed.'

Also interesting to see how they deal with "Killing/raping people in front of children" problem. I guess if the hosts do rise up in the end, they'll have to do it without weapons or the remote locks will 'conveniently' fail.

[FaxModem1]

Well, we see what happens when a family, presumably playing a White Hat scenario, approaches someone involved in a Black Hat scenario. I'm curious about the opposite, do the gamemakers in the control room jam a black hat's weapons when they decide to mess with a White Hat's scenario?

After all, in episode 4:
Spoiler

Logan shot William's bounty hunter guide and was about to plug Dolores as well when he wasn't getting his way.

William's theory that there are separate zones for the games makes more sense to me, as the family from the first episode knows not to cross the river because they don't want their kid to see anything, but I still see a guest being a jerk and ruining someone's good time if he or she wanted to.

[FaxModem1]

I've been seeing a theory on the internet about William.
Spoiler

Namely that all of his and Logan's scenes are decades in the past, and that he will eventually become Ed Harris's The Man in Black.

I really hope that this isn't true, due to how he seems the most moral of the guest/human characters.

[Burak Gazan]

Based on tonight's episode, I think that has a very low probability of being correct

[FaxModem1]

Based on tonight's episode, I think that has a very low probability of being correct

Why do you say that?

[Burak Gazan]

I might be getting whos n what mixed a little, but the conversation in the bar was interesting. Especially in the sense that, the Robots seem to have a hardwired "protect Ford" command built into them. Which is a bit eyebrow raising for any sort of upcoming rebellion. Especially as to who might be pulling the strings, and would it actually be a real rebellion. Certainly fascinating stuff. And Logan apparently getting the shit kicked out of him? Unless he signed up for that, THAT is not a good sign

[FaxModem1]

An interesting thing to note, that according to the Man in Black, is that it's cheaper to make biological machines like the 'hosts' than to make mechanical ones. The park originally had nothing but robot hosts, but moved to purely biological programmed machines in order to save money. What does that say about their technological level?

[wautd]

I like the show but one thing that keeps breaking my suspension of disbelief is how easily Delores gets sent back to HQ in such short notices. I mean, the place is huge, but when Dolores gets from camping spot/Pharia back to HQ to have a chat with Ford not even William seems to notice. If I remember

[Ziggy Stardust]

I like the show but one thing that keeps breaking my suspension of disbelief is how easily Delores gets sent back to HQ in such short notices. I mean, the place is huge, but when Dolores gets from camping spot/Pharia back to HQ to have a chat with Ford not even William seems to notice. If I remember

There are ways to rationalize it, and I expect that whatever twist the show is working towards will rationalize it in someway. It could be that Westworld isn't actually a physical place but some sort of Matrix type simulation. It could be that those conversations Dolores is having actually ARE her dreams (because it's certainly suspicious on the HQ end not to notice these conversations happening, given the level of oversight they have in other areas), or that Ford is able to contact her "remotely" in some way and she just perceives it as that conversation. Given that the show strongly hints that some of the scenes we observe are taking place at very different points in time (regardless of whether or not William is the Man in Black, which at this point isn't likely IMO, they have strongly hinted that his storyline takes place either significantly before or significantly after the other main storyline ... after all, we've never seen William interact with the Man in Black, Ford, or any of the other human characters thus far), it is possible those interviews did take place physically, but in the actual temporal order they are presented, etc.

[bilateralrope]

I might be getting whos n what mixed a little, but the conversation in the bar was interesting. Especially in the sense that, the Robots seem to have a hardwired "protect Ford" command built into them.

Two other possibilities:
- A function to prevent humans harming other humans.
- Another demonstration of just how much direct control Ford has over the hosts.

[FaxModem1]

So, I visited the Westworld site, which has terms of service for guests. The website also notes that people have died in the park before.

A copy of the terms of service:

Terms of Delos Destinations
IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE CAREFULLY BEFORE ENTERING THE DELOS DESTINATIONS COMPOUND (THE “SERVICE”), AS THEY AFFECT YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS AND OBLIGATIONS IN RESPECT TO YOUR USE OF THE SERVICE.

ACCEPTANCE OF TERMS: Upon entering the Delos Destinations Port of Entry, you are agreeing to the terms and conditions as laid out in this document.

LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY: Upon use of The Service, you agree that Delos, Inc. is not responsible for any injuries that are the result of gameplay. Recreational activity within the Delos Destinations compound does contain risks, and every effort will be made to ensure the safety of every guest. However, Delos, Inc. gives you license to experience the parks as you see fit, and certain injuries may occur.

(a) You dissolve Delos, Inc. of any responsibility financial or criminal that would result from dismemberment, broken bones, heart failure, loss or loss of use of hand and foot digits, shock, marital and relational strife, child endangerment, psychological trauma, delusions or hallucinations resulting from the realistic nature of the park experience, and/or any other physical, emotional, and psychological effects resulting from strenuous park activities.

(b) Statistically speaking, you are more likely to die from lightning strike than to die while in a Delos park. However, the following causes of accidental death have occurred within the Delos Destinations compound: buffalo stampede, self- cannibalism, accidental hanging, drowning, 3rd-degree burns, autoerotic asphyxiation, blunt force trauma, allergic reaction to non-native plant life, falling from great heights, common manslaughter, tumbleweeds. You absolve Delos, Inc. of any wrongdoing if you or anyone in your party suffers bodily harm while using The Service, and you agree to not sue or prosecute Delos, Inc. or any of the smaller entities falling under the Delos Corporation.

(c) All weapons and equipment used within Delos parks are the exclusive property of Delos, Inc. Gun ammunition contains proprietary safeguards related to bullet velocity, and tampering with gun safety features or ammunition automatically transfers liability to you and absolves Delos, Inc. of any injury or death that may occur as a result.

(d) All livestock within the Delos parks are Hosts, with the notable exception of flies. All humanoid and animal Hosts within Delos parks work to keep guests safe, even when the narrative calls for them to appear to endanger guests. Please note, the appearance of danger is not the same as true danger, and all Hosts utilize the Good SamaritanTM reflex to prevent bodily harm. However:

(e) Delos, Inc. shall not have a liability to you by reason of any delay or failure to perform if the delay or failure to perform is occasioned by circumstance beyond our control, which shall refer to any act of God, storm, fire, casualty, unanticipated work stoppage, power outage, satellite failure, strike, lockout, labor dispute, civil disturbance, riot, war, national emergency, Governmental action, Host malfunction, or other circumstance beyond our reasonable control.

RULES OF CONDUCT: All guest activity within the parks of the Delos Destinations compound is unrestricted and without limitations. However:
(a) Upon entering the Delos Destinations compound, you agree to voluntarily divest yourself of all cameras, cellular devices, and electronic technology capable of recording your park experience, including virtual reality recorders and devices, and holographic recreation devices. There is no video recording, audio recording, or written recording allowed within the park. You are allowed to utilize the in-park Host character PHOTOGRAPHERS, whose narratives allow for you to take Delos- approved photographs. These photographs will reflect the time period and location of the park narratives you are playing. No other photography is allowed.

(b) You agree that you will leave the Delos Destinations compound on your appointed leave date, and you will make no attempt to hide within the parks and avoid your leave date. A maximum of twenty-eight (28) days is allowed for being within the parks before guests must proceed to the Mesa Gold area for decompression. Any attempts to use the parks to avoid local, federal, or international court dates, jail or prison sentences, prosecution, or payments agreed upon in civil court or arbitration will not be supported by Delos, Inc.

(c) Please act responsibly while a guest at the Mesa Gold resort and while utilizing the Mesa Bar. Please be mindful of other guests, families, and children. Please note that while utilizing the Mesa Bar, you may interact with Delos, Inc. employees; any ideas pitched to Delos, Inc. employees automatically become the property of Delos, Inc., in perpetuity. Also, any mention of human-on-human crime admitted to a Delos, Inc. employee must be brought to the attention of Delos, Inc., and if falling within the laws of the Territory, may have to be reported to local authorities.

COPYRIGHTS AND TRADEMARKS: The Service and all materials included are protected by copyrights, patents, trade secrets or other proprietary rights under the respective laws of the Territory and are the exclusive property of Delos, Inc. These materials include, but are not limited to: the intellectual property of all Delos Destinations parks, the Host characters, Hosts’ programming code, the names of locations within the parks, the narratives within the parks, the recipes for specialized food and beverage items within the parks and featured at the Mesa Gold resort, text, photographs, graphics, video and audio content.
(a) As such, you may not copy, reproduce, distribute, publish, enter into a database, display, perform, modify, create derivative works, transmit, or in any way exploit any part of The Service.

(b) Using The Service is a privilege, and by doing so, you agree that you will make no attempt to remove anything belonging to Delos Destinations from the compound. You will not remove any food or beverage items, any Hosts, any clothing, any weapons or equipment, any signage, or any Host body parts from the compound. The only items you may remove from the compound are in-world photographs taken by designated Hosts. All other items are strictly forbidden.

INVESTIGATIONS/VIOLATIONS: If Delos, Inc. or any Delos Entity believes, in its sole discretion, that a violation of these Terms has occurred, it may take any and all corrective action it deems appropriate without notice, including contacting local authorities on the mainland. All human-on-human crimes taking place within the Delos Destinations compound will first be investigated by Delos, Inc.; Delos, Inc. has successfully avoided providing personal data in response to a legal process involving outside court entities for its entire history of existence. However, Delos, Inc. reserves the right to disclose personal information requested by a law enforcement agency, and shall have no liability to you for such disclosure.

PRIVACY: You are guaranteed absolute privacy while using The Service as outlined in this document, and all guest activities connected with use of The Service remain strictly private and confidential.

(a) You agree that while in the parks, you will respect the privacy rights of other guests, and you will not endeavor to record for the purposes of sharing the activities of other guests in the parks. You will not at any time, directly or indirectly, disclose, disseminate, or duplicate park activity pertaining to your or other guests’ gameplay.

(b) By entering the Delos Destinations Port of Entry, you acknowledge that Delos, Inc. controls the rights to and remains the sole owner of, in perpetuity: all skin cells, bodily fluids, secretions, excretions, hair samples, saliva, sweat, blood, and any other bodily functions not listed here. Delos, Inc. reserves the right to use this property in any way, shape, or form in which the entity sees fit.

MISCELLANEOUS: These Terms cannot be changed or terminated orally. Any failure of Delos, Inc. to exercise or enforce any right or provision of these Terms will not constitute a waiver of such right or provision. No waiver by Delos, Inc. of any provision of these Terms will be of any force or effect unless made in writing and signed by a duly authorized officer of Delos, Inc. Delos, Inc. may assign its rights and obligations under these Terms, in whole or in part, to any party at any time without any notice. Delos, Inc. reserves the right to deny access to all or part of the Service to you or any person in its sole discretion without notice or liability of any kind.

I'm morbidly curious how self cannibalism happened. Also interesting to note, Delos owns any genetic property you leave there once you're a customer on the park. This makes that lingering shot of Aeden(the blond female host who guided him) collecting William's glass as he arrived at the park more significant.

And for fun, I did a cost estimate of how much a trip would cost me on their website. With fees for hotels and such, it was about half a million if you wanted to stay a week for the cheapest option. Either inflation is really high in the future, or this is exclusively a super rich resort. The website did offer me a payment plan though.

[Joun_Lord]

I'm interested in the fact they talk about the mainland and port of entry. Apparently the park is set on an island Jurassic Park style. Sounds like it would have to be a big island especially with multiple parks as it alludes to. Possibly an artificial island? I guess having it isolated on an island makes more sense then setting it in the middle of the American midwest like the real old west both for safety and privacy. No hosts wandering off into populated areas and no rednecks driving their 4-wheelers in. A completely controlled environment. I really do wonder what other parks they have. Is it the same as the original movie, Westworld, Romanworld, and Medievalworld? I'd honestly probably pass on the park if that was all there was to it. Maybe some sci-fi Spaceworld or post-apocalyptic Falloutworld I'd be interested.

The fact they own genetic material is incredibly creepy. I wonder if the hosts are made from the genetic material of guests? Would be really creepy for a long time player to go into the park and meet their clone or genetic offspring.

Do answer kinda the question how bullets only hurt guests but kill hosts. I guess some handwave smart bullet that somehow slows down itself when it senses a guest.

Interesting that guests cannot even keep a written record of their time in the park. I can understand not wanting some Youtuber with a go-pro marching around giving some vlog but not wanting some person to write down their exploits seems odd. Probably to not break immersion, having some guest writing down how they are enjoying their vacation fracking robits and have a host read it would lead to some problems.

[bilateralrope]

All livestock within the Delos parks are Hosts, with the notable exception of flies.

I wonder how they manage to keep all non-host animals out. Simply using an island would not be enough.

Statistically speaking, you are more likely to die from lightning strike than to die while in a Delos park.

Does this give us a lower limit on the number of visitors to all Delos parks ?

I expect that other parks with different themes exist.

I'm morbidly curious how self cannibalism happened.

I'm more curious about the tumbleweed related death.

A maximum of twenty-eight (28) days is allowed for being within the parks before guests must proceed to the Mesa Gold area for decompression

Decompression is an odd term to use here.

Please act responsibly while a guest at the Mesa Gold resort and while utilizing the Mesa Bar. Please be mindful of other guests, families, and children.

It says something about the society of the outside world that children are allowed as guests to the park.

Using The Service is a privilege, and by doing so, you agree that you will make no attempt to remove anything belonging to Delos Destinations from the compound. You will not remove any food or beverage items, any Hosts, any clothing, any weapons or equipment, any signage, or any Host body parts from the compound. The only items you may remove from the compound are in-world photographs taken by designated Hosts. All other items are strictly forbidden.

Do they pump your stomach on the way out ?

Also interesting to note, Delos owns any genetic property you leave there once you're a customer on the park. This makes that lingering shot of Aeden(the blond female host who guided him) collecting William's glass as he arrived at the park more significant.

I doubt collecting the glass means anything. Most guests would leave plenty of other biological material, so trying to get anything off a glass seems pointless.

That clause just sounds like Delos wanting a quick way to end any silly lawsuit over biological material left behind.

Interesting that guests cannot even keep a written record of their time in the park. I can understand not wanting some Youtuber with a go-pro marching around giving some vlog but not wanting some person to write down their exploits seems odd. Probably to not break immersion, having some guest writing down how they are enjoying their vacation fracking robits and have a host read it would lead to some problems.

I see three reasons for that:
- If such notes don't exist, it simplifies things for the legal department when police ask for them.
- Privacy for guests. The gimmick of the park is that the guests can do anything to the hosts that they like. No restrictions. No consequences that persist after leaving the park. So the park gives the guests all the privacy that it can.
- The less detail that gets written down, the less information that one guest can share with a future guest. Which means the park doesn't need to change the narrative as often to keep guests surprised.