Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

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Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Broomstick »

Caught an episode of this one on one of those TV side channels that run old shows.

For those of you not familar with the show: wiki wiki wiki. Short version: this 1981-1983 show was about a school teacher given a magic superhero suit by aliens, the FBI agent the aliens said had to work with him, and school teacher's lawyer girlfriend. No, it didn't take itself too seriously and neither should you, although it does also qualify as "drama" as well as "comedy". The hero loses the suit instruction book in the pilot and thus must learn by trial and error as the trio takes on problems both mundane and world-shaking. Hilarious hijinks ensue.

This is yet another show I loved as a kid, but never saw in full color glory until now. That's right - tonight was the first time I've seen this show in color. Yep, I only had a black and white TV until (counts on fingers) 1988. Or was it '89? Yep, sometimes it sucked to be me. My parents got a color set for themselves a year after I moved out, but did >I< get one...? :::pout:::

OK, now I'm watching on a big-ass 70 inch screen (that's 178 cm for the rest of the world). The color is fine, but the original was most certainly not high definition. Oh, well, maybe I'm spoiled now. I still enjoyed the show. In fact, I enjoyed it so much I'm thinking of buying it on DVD.

WARNING! REMINISCING ABOUT TO HAPPEN! OLD GEEZER ALERT!

Couple of things: gosh, those late '70's cars look so old and retro now, but I remember when those were new and cool (except for Ralph Hinkley/Hanley's woodie station wagon and Bill Maxwell's government issued cars, which kept getting wrecked or set on fire by Ralph, and that was intentional). Everything all squared off in front, old Detroit steel... except for the occasional K-car (man, those things were tinfoil!)

Ties had gotten skinnier again since the extra-wide versions in Superman. Good fashion move.

The hero's name was Ralph Hinkley, but just a couple weeks after the pilot some guy named Hinkley shot President Reagan, Press Secretary Bill Brady, a Washington DC police officer, and a Secret Service agent (one of four who really have taken a bullet for the president. He got better and is still alive.) Because of this, the TV executives decided they couldn't have a main character on a TV show named "Hinkley" so for the rest of the season Mr. Hinkley was changed to Mr. Hanley. The following season he became Hinkley again.

WTF with Williams Katt's hair? Alright, a lot of people got perms in the 1970's and early '80's. It was like tie dye and bell bottom jeans. Everybody did it and was embarrassed years later when their now high-school aged kids found the photos. And actually, it did sort of work with the suit and a superhero who's primary means of "landing" after a flight was slamming into a wall.

Anyhow - hadn't thought of this one in years, but again, it was one I enjoyed then and enjoyed again tonight. You might want to check out an episode or two. I think they're also available on YouTube, and probably other places, too.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by B5B7 »

I watched this (in colour). I liked it. It was fun to watch. William Katt was great as the hero, and the blend of humour and his relationships was good.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by U.P. Cinnabar »

It just wouldn't be a Steven J. Cannell* production without at least two car wrecks per episode. :)

But, this does take me back, this and MacGuyver, before the SG-1 days, where the non-violent time slot forced our hero to improvise solutions from paper clips and candy bar wrappers.

Another great show from the 80s was The Equalizer. And, the first season of Tour Of Duty.

*who I think is still the only person to have hit shows on all three major networks. Fuck, only three broadcasting networks, back in the days, before everyone and his pet monkey had cable. That really does take you back.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by phred »

It was on Hulu awhile back, not sure if its still there. Gods, some of that stuff is pure cheese. I guess nostalgia is being really happy at seeing something you used to love, crossed with embarrassment at exactly how bad it is? I can see the curtains on the back wall of the set in some of the night scenes.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Darth Holbytlan »

I always had fond memories of this show from when I was a kid and wanted to watch it again. So when I saw that it was available on DVD several years ago I snapped up the complete series.

The result reminded me that sometimes nostalgia is best left alone. While the early episodes were pretty good, the series went downhill pretty quickly. Moments I remembered from childhood and looked forward to seeing again turned out to be painful. Repeatedly. And then, at the very end, I watched the pilot for Greatest American Heroine—46 minutes (per IMDB) of my life that I will never get back.

IIRC, the first season of 8 episodes was mostly good, but the quality dropped severely for seasons 2 and 3. (It also looks like the budget dropped, at least by the number of flying clips they started reusing.)

I just checked Hulu, and it is still there in it's entirety. So if you are looking for cheap nostalgia, that is probably the way to go.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by mr friendly guy »

I got all seasons on DVD. As a younger person I would have enjoyed the superheroics, but as I got older, its the banter between Maxwell (played by the late Robert Culp) and Ralph (William Katt) which really does it. Both are on the side of angels so to speak, but Ralph is a lefty while Bill is a conservative.

On a trivia note - one of his students played by Faye Grant would go on to star in V for victory (the original) and married the guy who played Decker in Star Trek the Motion picture.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

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Darth Holbytlan wrote:IIRC, the first season of 8 episodes was mostly good, but the quality dropped severely for seasons 2 and 3. (It also looks like the budget dropped, at least by the number of flying clips they started reusing.)
Well, cheesy green-screen special effects were, I think, part of the parody aspect of the show. In addition to saving money.

The first season was just 8 episodes, the second 22 but they probably didn't not get a proportional increase in budget. As most shows go on they develop a library of canned sequences so it's not that unusual, but any show with FX is going to cost more than a show that doesn't require them.

Lots of executive meddling on this one - initially, Cannell wanted a superhero solving mundane problems but the network executives who signed off on that left and their replacements wanted gratuitous effects and explosions and world-saving and such. The network also put the show into a "death slot" the third season which pretty much guaranteed the ratings would tank and the show would be cancelled.

Sure, things change over time. Maybe I just like cheese. I was a young adult when I was watching so the first time around I did appreciate the Raph/Bill bantering. The writing on the show actually was pretty good most of the time, but Cannell was heavily involved in that so it's not too surprising.

Rewatched the "Hand Painted Thai" this morning as it was one of my favorite episodes - the one where Bill gets hypnotized by accident and spends the episode going in and out of trace when his catch-phrase "scenario" is said.

Anyone else remember the episode where Ralph gets hit by a train and develops Hollywood amnesia? Turns out he flies better when he doesn't know he's a superhero. Have to look that one up next.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Darth Holbytlan »

Broomstick wrote:Well, cheesy green-screen special effects were, I think, part of the parody aspect of the show. In addition to saving money.

The first season was just 8 episodes, the second 22 but they probably didn't not get a proportional increase in budget. As most shows go on they develop a library of canned sequences so it's not that unusual, but any show with FX is going to cost more than a show that doesn't require them.
My loose understanding of how these shows are priced is that it is on a per episode basis, so if the budget dropped like that, it means someone actually cut it. But I may just be wrong, here.

Regardless, the cheap(er) effects didn't feel like parody to me, just crappy 80s effects on, er, anti-steroids.
Lots of executive meddling on this one - initially, Cannell wanted a superhero solving mundane problems but the network executives who signed off on that left and their replacements wanted gratuitous effects and explosions and world-saving and such. The network also put the show into a "death slot" the third season which pretty much guaranteed the ratings would tank and the show would be cancelled.
I can't say that I was surprised it was canceled after rewatching the whole thing, but I can totally believe that executive meddling was involved. I had guessed as much, already.
Sure, things change over time. Maybe I just like cheese. I was a young adult when I was watching so the first time around I did appreciate the Raph/Bill bantering. The writing on the show actually was pretty good most of the time, but Cannell was heavily involved in that so it's not too surprising.
That probably makes a big difference; it sounds like you have at least a decade on me—my rose-colored glasses had a much stronger prescription than yours. I'm also not much of a cheese fan nowadays. Some of the banter felt forced to me, especially when they were doing the "remember that Ralph is liberal and Bill is conservative" bits.
Anyone else remember the episode where Ralph gets hit by a train and develops Hollywood amnesia? Turns out he flies better when he doesn't know he's a superhero. Have to look that one up next.
That was one of the specific episodes I remembered from childhood and was looking forward to seeing. I recall just being bored by the episode on my rewatch. I had a similar reaction to the sea monster episode and the haunted house episode—they also didn't live up to my memories.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Korto »

I loved this show!

Believe it or not, I'm walking on air.
I never thought I could feel, so fre...ee..eee!
Flying away, on a wing and a prayer,
Who could it be?
Believe it or not, it's just me. :D

I remember I saw the episode where he learnt how to fly. Don't remember much about it, but he was continually jumping, or something, trying to get into the air and it wasn't working, and then some little kid told him he was doing it wrong, and he had to take three steps and leap up into the air, arms outstretched, and that's how he learnt to fly.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by LadyTevar »

Korto wrote: Believe it or not, I'm walking on air.
I never thought I could feel, so fre...ee..eee!
Flying away, on a wing and a prayer,
Who could it be?
Believe it or not, it's just me. :D
Total 70s for the theme. :D
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Broomstick »

You gotta admit, that theme song is as full of uplifting optimism as Ralph Hinkley is full of klutz.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by LadyTevar »

Broomstick wrote:You gotta admit, that theme song is as full of uplifting optimism as Ralph Hinkley is full of klutz.
It's the good kind of earworm, one that makes you feel good about yourself. I hear it and I break out singing. :)
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Broomstick »

Watched a few more episodes. The flying sequences are very repetitive, but I think they got away with that back in the early 80's because it was 1 episode a week and no one was binge-watching yet, and binge-watching is where you most notice things like that.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Simon_Jester »

Yeah.

Repeating two minutes of physical comedy in a show people watch once a week is a good way to make your viewers laugh and be sure that the idea "Ralph Hinkley is the clumsiest flier since someone shot a tree sloth out of a catapult" stays burned in their brains.

Seeing the same two minutes of physical comedy when you're watching two or three episodes a day... not so much.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

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Two more differences:

First, this was before the season-long arcs we see today in shows. I think binge-watching is one of the reasons for the season arcs. So you can watch these shows in largely any order. There are some references in later shows to events in earlier shows, which was a bit unusual for the time this was produced, but they're pretty small and you did not have to have seen the earlier shows. Still, even those little back-references were unusual. Later on, the producer (Cannell) would go one to produce some of the first popular shows (outside of soap operas) to have extensive season-arcs and extensive main-character development outside of one-hour episodes. This show has early forms of both.

Oh, that character development - among other things, Ralph does get a bit better with the suit over time. Not a lot better (then it would stop being funny) but even with the flying as time goes by there's less terrified screaming and thrashing and more accuracy in direction, although he never does seem to learn how to land other than "slam into solid object and hope there's not to much damage to the landscape".
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

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Oh... one more thing I found endearing about this show: like me, Agent Bill Maxwell absolutely will not eat anything with tomatoes.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by U.P. Cinnabar »

Broomstick wrote: Later on, the producer (Cannell) would go one to produce some of the first popular shows (outside of soap operas) to have extensive season-arcs and extensive main-character development outside of one-hour episodes. This show has early forms of both.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

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Broomstick wrote:Two more differences:

First, this was before the season-long arcs we see today in shows. I think binge-watching is one of the reasons for the season arcs. So you can watch these shows in largely any order...
That's a good point.

[The following is more for others' benefit than for yours, because a lot of them weren't around or were children at this time. Please feel free to correct me if I've missed anything important.]

Come to think of it, I had a thought. Videotapes didn't really achieve widespread market penetration until the 1980s. Prior to that time, the average person had no access to recordings of TV shows. If you wanted to watch TV, you watched whatever the network happened to be showing at that time. If you wanted to rewatch one of your favorite shows, you waited until it came back on as a rerun.

It's only natural that a TV show would be highly episodic if there is literally no way for viewers to watch old episodes until the network gets around to rerunning them. There's no way to see a recording of last week's episode if you missed it. There's certainly no way to see a recording of last season's episodes. That stuff is all water under the bridge now, and you can't assume any given viewer saw it or remembers it.

Once videotapes became a thing that people had access to, it was at least plausible that someone could watch an old episode of a show. And there was more incentive to think of the show's entire season as a unified artistic whole, because sooner or later the show would go to VHS or something, and people could actually buy the whole thing and watch it at their leisure.

So in a real sense, non-episodic TV with seasonal story arcs may well be a child of the home VCR.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Broomstick »

Sounds reasonable to me.

The court case that defeated the Hollywood attempt to outlaw home video recording was the mid-1980's, it would have been a year or two after this program went off the air.

Time was required for market penetration and a change in both viewing habits and production. The season-arc thing really exploded post-2000 between just about everyone having some sort of home recording device and the rise of the world-wide web where people started posting videos. YouTube didn't show up until around 2005 or so, along with things like Hulu that really made watching it as first broadcast optional. Prior to the big change you'd get some change over a series but very little because if you changed a lot a good portion of the viewers would get lost. While the networks of course wanted you to tune in for every episode they knew darn well that wasn't going to happen. Until people could reliably play catch-up there was a limit to the season-arc and major character changes you could have over a series.

But yeah, when I was a kid you either saw a movie or TV show when it was first brought out or you didn't see it, movies even more so than TV but even with TV programs typically only had one, maybe two reruns during the "off" season between putting out new episodes and there was no guarantee that even if a network did re-run something that they're rerun the entire season or run them in order. Some movies did get shown on TV, typically years after their initial release, and often "edited for time and content", in some cases being outright butchery. Some TV shows wound up in "syndication", being shown on local stations, but again often butchered to allow for more commercials.

Releasing entire shows didn't take off until the 1990's. Going back and putting less popular shows (like Logan's Run and The Greatest American Hero) onto tape or DVD and selling them didn't happen until the 00's.

Of course, when I was kid and young adult that's what we had, we didn't know anything else. Kids these days get to watch pretty much anything they want any time they want as often as they want and freeze-framing something is nothing if you want to examine something in detail or spot the easter eggs (it was impossible prior to the mid-80's, though, with only a few exceptions - early pause features on VCR's were blurry at best and you needed a separate camera to take a screen shot of the TV screen).

I've gotten used to the modern technology and binge-watching, too. To the point that it takes something like this thread for me to really remember how it used to be. It's a "living in the future" moment.

It's funny - I look at this series, at the clothes and the cars and the TV sets and typewriters and payphones in the show that all seem so old and dated and out of place to me now and I realize, hey, I grew up in that world I remember when all that was new, modern, cutting-edge. Makes me wonder if, in the 1970's, my parents would watch movies and films made in the 40's and 50's and feel the same way. I guess they did.

Oh - interesting experiment - some time watch a series of shows or movies taking place between earliest television and the modern world. Even more fun if they're someone connected. The Three Stooges are actually really good for that - their shorts were produced starting in the 1930's and the settings were often typical homes of the time. They were producing shorts through 1950's. Then TV shows like Father Knows Best and Leave it to Beaver - some of the social and costuming stuff was not typical of American homes, but a lot of the settings and tech were - phones, cars, some of the toys, kitchen appliances, etc. And on-and-on. It really gives you some appreciation for how things changed over time, often changed a LOT over time. Then consider folks like my parents, who grew up in the 1930's with party line phones and ice boxes that used real ice, when major cities still have deliveries by horse drawn wagons and lived into the 2010's with computers, the internet, smartphones, and so on. LOTS of change in one human lifetime.

I'm about halfway through that sort of lifespan (to be honest, maybe more than half). Lots of changes since I was a kid or young adult, too. Which is why I can't wait to see how things are in another 30 or 40 years.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by phred »

Broomstick wrote: Oh - interesting experiment - some time watch a series of shows or movies taking place between earliest television and the modern world. Even more fun if they're someone connected. The Three Stooges are actually really good for that - their shorts were produced starting in the 1930's and the settings were often typical homes of the time. They were producing shorts through 1950's. Then TV shows like Father Knows Best and Leave it to Beaver - some of the social and costuming stuff was not typical of American homes, but a lot of the settings and tech were - phones, cars, some of the toys, kitchen appliances, etc. And on-and-on. It really gives you some appreciation for how things changed over time, often changed a LOT over time. Then consider folks like my parents, who grew up in the 1930's with party line phones and ice boxes that used real ice, when major cities still have deliveries by horse drawn wagons and lived into the 2010's with computers, the internet, smartphones, and so on. LOTS of change in one human lifetime.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Broomstick »

Just checked the run on Columbo - 1971 to 2002! Holy crap - didn't realize it ran that long! Yes, lots of changes. Basically, that's what's changed over my lifetime. (I'm still oddly nostalgic for the old rotary dial phones. Why, I don't know. Still owned one up to the early 1990's. Partly, those things were nearly indestructible, I admire that in machinery.)

Anyhow - after hopping around a couple episodes I particularly wanted to watch I re-started tGAH from the beginning and I'm about halfway through season 2 now. This show was enormously popular at that point. I think it comes down to a couple key things:

- Ralph Hinkley is Everyman. He's not superpowered himself, he's just an very ordinary guy with a supersuit. Take the supersuit off he is, as he put it once, "mere mortal". Because he's an ordinary guy ordinary folks can identify with him.
- Ralph Hinkley is a klutz. Even with a supersuit he can be awkward and fumbling, just like the rest of us in real life. This makes him an even more sympathetic character.
- Bill Maxwell is a badass normal. He's not superpowered and he doesn't have a supersuit, he's not even optimized human being, but he goes charging in anyway. Regardless of his politics or views you can't fault the guy's raw courage. Given how he keeps going even when injured (multiple broken bones, gunshot wounds, concussions) you also have to admire his grit and stubbornness. He's a heroic normal guy, something the ordinary person has the potential to be.
- Both Hinkley and Maxwell are deeply moral people, albeit in somewhat different ways. Ralph is about as close to incorruptible as a human being can be. Although he has his ego moments, and lapses into using the suit for less than honorable purposes on occasion, but like Bilbo and Frodo with the One Ring he manages to resist a LOT of temptation and he does it so well you can forget just how much temptation he is resisting. Bill Maxwelll is cynical and battle-hardened, but he puts his life on the line to do what's right and go after the bad guys. We'd all like to be as incorruptible, brave, and honorable as these two guys.

(A note about Maxwell - just watched an episode where the Bad Guys are going to drop him out of a helicopter at 10,000 feet if he doesn't spill the beans. Maxwell doesn't talk and gets showed out into open air. Granted, his partner can fly - for certain definitions of "fly" (mostly not including "landing") but there's zero guarantee that Ralph knows where he is or can get to him in time or be able to catch him. Even after he's rescued, the dialog makes it clear that Bill thought he was really going to die. The guy who keeps going through broken bones and gunfire is so weak and shaky in the knees from fear he can't stand up at first. Maxwell really will die before surrender.)

Even Pam Davidson has her moments of bravery and heroism. Basically, all three primary leads are ordinary people doing extraordinary things and most of us eat that up like candy.


Little details also added to it:

- Ralph is always having trouble getting his street clothes off and/or his supersuit on. Always. And the more dire/frantic the situation the worse it gets. Which we've all experienced in real life. The one time you have to get moving quickly is the time you're going to trip over your own underwear while trying to get your shoe on. There's no easy costume change or magic switch here, it's mundane clothes-changing. So, even though we're dealing with a Magic Suit this detail makes it more believable. We can relate to this guy.
- People notice the whacky costume. Now, I think the "this guy is crazy" angle is overdone at times - I've lived in big cities for most of my life and while you'd notice some guy walking down the street in a superhero suit your first reaction isn't necessarially get the guys with the giant net and ship him off to the funny farm, honestly, Ralph's suit is pretty mild compared to some of the things I've seen on the Chicago trains, busses, and streets - but the incongruity is noticed by the mundanes. Well, except when Ralph is invisible, of course, but when he's not invisible people notice him. No perception filters.
- Gun safety. This is a really subtle one, but Maxwell actually does follow the Rules of Gun Safety. He never points a gun at something he doesn't want shot, including his bulletproof partner. There are a few, rare times he points a gun at Ralph but it's delibrate and to make a point, it's never accidental. He reacts appropriately to someone else pointing a gun at him, even if it's someone like Pam (who clearly isn't used to handling guns) very unlikely to shoot him. He treats guns like real guns rather than harmless props (and really, even "harmless props" can be hazardous - there have been a number of fatalities in Hollywood from guns shooting blanks and the like). Again, it adds an element of realism to a show with fantastic elements.
- They used a lot of location shots. Interiors were typically indoor sets, but most of the shows take place outside in real environments. This, too, lends a certain authenticity to the show.
- A lot of dialogue is filmed while the characters are in a car driving somewhere. They actually went to the trouble of shooting most of these in an actual car rather than a studio with rear-projection. It's more expensive and troublesome, but it looks a lot better on screen.
- Ralph Hinkley doesn't have a six-pack and he's not "cut". He's actually sort of wimpy-looking physically. In other words, he doesn't look like he works out 12 hours a day which, again, makes him more ordinary and easier to relate to. Maxwell has a bit of a gut, he's not ripped either. Pam is not Hollywood skinny (actually, Connie Selleca was pregnant the entire first season, if you look you can tell she gets a little heftier each episode). These are real people with ordinary body types.


Meta-reasons this show worked:

- William Katt's and Robert Culp's real life relationship mirrored that of their characters. Initially, they hated each other but over time grew to respect each other and by the end of the show's run were friends. William Katt has spoken of Culp as a mentor and teaching him a lot about acting and the industry (Culp was also a writer and director as well as an actor, and wrote and directed two episodes for the show). So a lot of the initial friction between Hinkley and Maxwell wasn't acting, it was how the two men really felt about each other bleeding through. Likewise, the gruff affection they two characters evolved into wasn't entirely acting, either. One of the reasons the interaction between the two characters was so convincing is because the two actors could bring real feelings into the roles.
- William Katt hated the supersuit. Loathed it. After he tried it on for the first time he told Stephen Cannell it looked stupid and ridiculous. To which Cannell said yes, that's sort of the point. So all the awkwardness, embarrassment, and so forth you see Hinkley displaying is actually William Katt's real feelings about the "red jammies". Again, this lends a certain authenticity to the whole performance.
- Also, Katt found the wire-work involved in filming the flying scenes to be frightening as well. Exhilarating, yes, that too, but also frightening. So some of the screaming and flailing is, again, not entirely acting although it's also exaggerated/hammed up for effect.
- Stephen Cannell said in an interview at least once that one of the challenges of the show was the special effects. This was just after Superman (Christopher Reeves version) had come out so the bar was set higher than before for the flying scenes. Editing was still done with actual, physical film being cut and taped backed together. Computer special effects were near to non-existent. Industrial Light and Magic hadn't branched out to servicing TV yet. His approach was to get it absolutely right the first time, after which the audience would tend to be more forgiving. So the initial flying scenes were the big money shots and the audience forgave him re-using such footage time and again - which audiences do. He took the trouble to do things like location shots and filming people in actual cars, which was not the cheapest approach, knowing that if he did that the audience would forgive the occasionally not so wonderful effect. Knowing how audiences react is very important, and Cannell's knowledge in this area is one reason he had so many successful shows over his career.
- A lot of the stuntwork was an actual guy doing the actual thing: falling, jumping, hanging onto a moving car/bus/whatever, busting through a wall (break-away, yes, but still breaking through an actual object). Jaded modern audiences are used to some of this being CGI and FX - in this show none of it was. If you see a guy sliding under a moving car it really was an actual person actually sliding under an actual moving car. Likewise falling from a height, or flipping backward after an explosion. These hazardous stunts were, of course, done by a professional stuntman and not William Katt. Again, it lends a certain realism to an otherwise fantastical scenario
- Some bloopers were included - the season 3 opening sequence with the chalk breaking as Hinkley wrote on a blackboard was a blooper that was incorporated into the opening. An episode were Ralph's cape got caught on something as he climbed down from a roof structure was another. In addition to the continuation of the "Ralph is a klutz" theme it again lent realism/authenticity to the show.
- Really good editing/angle/scenery work. As noted, William Katt had a stunt double. As noted by Katt over the years, his double didn't look a thing like him: dark hair, prominent nose, completely different body type. It was more important he could do the stunts than that he looked like Katt. Of course, there was great reliance on clothing/wigs to cover all that up. In this case, Ralph's inability to land properly worked in the show's favor. The stunt double would come flying (sorry) into the shot as a blur, crash, then be all tangled up in a tree or bush or debris or something, which would serve to cover up the fact that the guy in the suit looked completely different a few seconds later when it was William Katt climbing out of a tree/bushes/debris. Likewise, Ralph's cape flopping over his head during/after a landing. Watching on an over-sized, high definition TV there are a few spots where yeah, I can tell it's not the same guy if I concentrate on spotting the switch but it's an effort to look for them and easy enough to ignore. On 1980's-era TV sets this would have been almost unnoticeable, and it holds up decently even now, 30 years later. Poor Ralph - he was never going to learn to land properly because it would have made it harder and more expensive to do the shots! Move fast and have a plausible reason to switch to a different viewing angle.


All of which makes me despair when I hear about remakes. This show succeeded on the basis of ordinary people doing extraordinary things, and how they related to one another or to the absurd situations they found themselves in. While some effects were needed it did not rely on big-budget eye candy. I fear that if a re-make were attempted the hero(s) would be buff guys/gals, there would be tons of CGI, and a focus on the wrong things. While I like this show enough to wish there had been more of it I would rather not see a crappy remake.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by mr friendly guy »

Speaking of potential remakes, how would they change things to make it fit in with modern realities, unless they deliberately set it back in the 1980s.

Consider

1. The Soviets were enemy.

There were enemy agents which Ralph had to fight or rogue US generals who wanted to nuke the Soviets because they felt the US was losing the Cold War. Who are we going to get to supply the equivalent role? The only country that even comes close is China, and even then there is quite a bit of difference in US / China relations compared to US / USSR relations.

Its quite interesting actually about portrayals during the cold war. The US had the Soviets as the EnemyTM but the Soviets had....the Nazis. This wasn't a problem because the US rarely traded with the Soviets (except for titanium IIRC) but the US film industry is now increasingly relying on the Chinese market.

There is also another thing to consider. While there are people who worry about American hegemony and will naturally see China as Soviet Union mark II, there is most probably way more who do not see the PRC as this way. I could put a few reasons out there like

a) they aren't interested in engaging in an ideological war with the West like the Soviets were. A trade war maybe if push comes to shove, but trade wars don't seem as personal as ideological ones.

b) The Soviets were perceived (and were) as a very technologically advanced country- consider movies like Firefox where Clint Eastwood had to steal a sooper dooper plane from the Soviets, which would outmatch the ones the US had, or how the Soviets gave the US a scare by being the first nation to launch a satellite and send a man into space.

When you say China, people think of Great Wall, pollution and cheap goods. Not technologically advance products. At the end of the day, China is not perceived as having good technology, and in this way makes them less threatening compared to the Soviets (even if the Chinese wanted to engage in the same geopolitical games the Soviets played). The fact this is not true won't matter, because most viewers aren't going to be knowledgeable about China's science and technology.

So its going to be hard for them to use China in the same way the Soviets were used, unless you dial up the yellow peril to strawman level like Yellow Red Dawn did.


2. Terrorism

Several times Ralph had to prevent terrorist attacks. Some homegrown right wing extremists who wanted to release smallpox, and some eastern European master terrorist who escaped from a West German jail by using a double.

I think in this day and age when people talk about terrorism we think of a different demographic. This would give controversy to a show which is not meant to be serious, and "fun."

3. Bill Maxwell and the FBI

In The Greatest American Hero, the FBI were still essentially good albeit Carlyle was an incompetent who had it in for Maxwell. In this day with Snowden, Jason Bourne movies, using social media to spy on the citizens etc, shows like X-files where corrupt government with conspiracies is a strong theme, it would be very hard to portray Maxwell as idealistic without cynicism sneaking in. And yes Maxwell was idealistic in his own way. He stopped a rogue US general nuking the USSR in a preemptive strike. He tried to get mobsters indicted the proper way. He engaged with Tony Villacona in banter rather than knocking Tony down because he disrespected his authorita.

4. Smart phones

It would be much easier to take a photograph of Ralph in the suit, doing super stuff with the presence of smart phones. However this would most probably be the easiest problem to get around. Just have the suit have a built in feature which interferes with picture taking equipment, which Ralph cannot switch off.
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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Broomstick »

mr friendly guy wrote:Speaking of potential remakes, how would they change things to make it fit in with modern realities, unless they deliberately set it back in the 1980s.
Oh, please - let's NOT set it back in the 1980's. For one thing, they're unlikely to get a lot of stuff correct. It is very, very hard to do retro like that and I'd rather they expend the time and energy on good writing/plot/etc. than get distracted with the window dressing.

Also - I cringe every time this show reminds me of what it really was like for a professional level woman in that time period. Having some big-shot come in and assume Pam was the office go-fer and tell her to fetch coffee instead of a junior partner and attorney is right on target for the time period. I worked in offices in that time period, it really was that blatant and awful (one of my first paying jobs it was explicit that getting coffee for everyone and remembering their preferences was part of my job duties. It was a woman-owned business. Clients would come in and assume the boss was the secretary. In the late 1980's I met a very successful woman entrepreneur who had hired a man to speak for her with clients who simply could not accept a woman in charge. It worked, but it's awful that was necessary). Can we not have that as part of a re-make? It would be one of the benefits of pulling it into the modern time period.
mr friendly guy wrote:1. The Soviets were enemy.

There were enemy agents which Ralph had to fight or rogue US generals who wanted to nuke the Soviets because they felt the US was losing the Cold War. Who are we going to get to supply the equivalent role? The only country that even comes close is China, and even then there is quite a bit of difference in US / China relations compared to US / USSR relations.

Its quite interesting actually about portrayals during the cold war. The US had the Soviets as the EnemyTM but the Soviets had....the Nazis. This wasn't a problem because the US rarely traded with the Soviets (except for titanium IIRC) but the US film industry is now increasingly relying on the Chinese market.
Actually, by the 1980's we were selling wheat and the like to the USSR when their crops came up short. Granted, it was the Reagan years but US-USSR relations were considerably better than they had been in the 1960's.

And tGAH had Nazis, too.

But you're correct, the US doesn't have a Cold War USSR-equivalent right now (which I'm totally OK with). We do have an issue with some people who haven't gotten the memo yet that the Cold War is over, which could open up some plots for use. The government still has secret technology they don't want anyone else to steal. In other words, not an insurmountable obstacle.

Unless you were around at the time you probably don't remember this aspect of it, but part of the pilot was a plot to assassinate the US President. Then a couple weeks after that aired someone tried to kill the president in real life. In neither case, not the fictional show nor the real life shooting, were the Soviets or any external enemies involved. The USSR/Red Threat was a convenient plot excuse, not a necessary component to the show. Quite a few of the threats shows in the show were homegrown, including the terrorists who wanted to steal smallpox and start an epidemic, which plot could have been lifted right out of prime-time dramas post-9/11 as well. One episode had Ralph go into a rant about democracy that would fit in perfectly with this election year. The USSR isn't the bogeyman any more, but plenty of threats still exist and some of them are even old and familar.
So its going to be hard for them to use China in the same way the Soviets were used, unless you dial up the yellow peril to strawman level like Yellow Red Dawn did.
So you deal with trade issues and pollution instead, which gets back to the original vision of the show which was less "save the world from WWIII" and more dealing with lesser and more mundane problems. Like fixed betting with major league baseball or Las Vegas casinos or stealing classified information and releasing/selling it.
2. Terrorism

Several times Ralph had to prevent terrorist attacks. Some homegrown right wing extremists who wanted to release smallpox, and some eastern European master terrorist who escaped from a West German jail by using a double.
.... and the release of nerve gas during a rock festival. Among others.
I think in this day and age when people talk about terrorism we think of a different demographic. This would give controversy to a show which is not meant to be serious, and "fun."
Right, but in addition to stereotypical Middle Eastern/Islamist extremist terrorists you still have the potential for home grown varieties, like, say, the American Nazi Party or biker gangs or inner-city urban gangs or Mexican drug cartels. One episode it's good-guy bikers helping to combat Nazi terrorists, then another episode it's good guy Muslims helping against terrorist bikers, and so on. There are ways to handle these things without turning into the worst sort of propaganda mouthpiece.

Of course, it also requires a good showrunner (is Cannell still working or retired?), good writers, and no network executive meddling to pull it off, too.
3. Bill Maxwell and the FBI

In The Greatest American Hero, the FBI were still essentially good albeit Carlyle was an incompetent who had it in for Maxwell. In this day with Snowden, Jason Bourne movies, using social media to spy on the citizens etc, shows like X-files where corrupt government with conspiracies is a strong theme, it would be very hard to portray Maxwell as idealistic without cynicism sneaking in. And yes Maxwell was idealistic in his own way. He stopped a rogue US general nuking the USSR in a preemptive strike. He tried to get mobsters indicted the proper way. He engaged with Tony Villacona in banter rather than knocking Tony down because he disrespected his authorita.
Maxwell was a cynic. And they had plenty of episodes that dealt with corrupt agents, including a quartet of bad agents that not only were planning a theft and get-away to South America but were also ready to kill Maxwell to keep it all from getting out.

Maxwell could be the good-guy cop trying to root out the bad-guy cops. You actually could do quite a bit with the whole thing.
4. Smart phones

It would be much easier to take a photograph of Ralph in the suit, doing super stuff with the presence of smart phones. However this would most probably be the easiest problem to get around. Just have the suit have a built in feature which interferes with picture taking equipment, which Ralph cannot switch off.
I guess so - you can only yell "photoshop!" so many times. Which, by the way, is a cry we hear often enough these days to discredit real video evidence. But yeah, you'd have to put an anti-documentation thing in the suit for this. Fortunately, it's a Magic Suit(TM) that develops powers as needed by the plot so go for it.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by Broomstick »

The thing about watching a show like this in more-or-less binge format is that you see things you might not be aware of otherwise. Which brings me to an episode named, ironically, "It's All Downhill From Here". Because, for our trio, it's really more uphill in many respects.

The reason I bring this one up is not for the raw plot - foreign downhill skier passing classified information to CIA and wants to defect but girlfriend needs rescue so Ralph takes skier's place in world-class race which he can do because of the suit and saves the day blah blah blah (sorry, I guess that was a bit of a spoiler) - but for something else that's notable. Or rather, several points.

First, remember our hero Ralph was very much a reluctant superhero who really, really, really hated that damn red suit from the start. Clearly, as of this episode, he's made some accommodation with it. He's wearing it as his ski gear. Because it keeps him warm (Pam/Connie Selleca does a champion eyeroll at that). No other reason... uh-huh. Ralph pretty much prances around this entire episode in his magic red longjohns with just a pair of boots and a parka over it to "disguise" it. (He does don some blue clothes briefly at one point.) Well, OK, it probably does keep him warm, along with everything else. The thing is, the character has become both comfortable and somewhat adept with the suit. He's not screwing up with the powers like invisibility, he's flying much straighter (although he still can't land for shit), and it's even lampshaded in the episode with a comment by Maxwell.

The next episode is "Dreams" where, again, Ralph has control of his suit-powers - he manages to "change channels" on the hologram thing/clairvoyance at will, he gets in a bit of telekinesis at one point, and he doesn't just fly himself but a whole van full of people - and he lands that without crashing! This is the point where the folks writing or running the show, or someone, has decided that a basic premise of the show up to this point - Ralph is an inept superhero klutz - changes. It's roughly halfway through the show's run, as well. It shows an evolution in basic character that was not characteristic of TV series up to that time, but would later feature in other Stephen J. Cannell productions like Hill Street Blues where main characters do evolve and make significant changes over time.

Which is another special thing about this show. Not because it's a great show, but because it foreshadowed things Cannell did later with other hit shows.

Another thought I had - in universe, Ralph is NEVER going to learn how to land properly when it's just himself. You know why? Because he doesn't have to. He's invulnerable, remember? Bullets bounce off, if he runs into a building it's the building that breaks, not him. Crashing doesn't hurt him. But when someone else is involved he suddenly has more control - if he's carrying Pam or Bill somehow Ralph always lands on the bottom of the pile, taking the impact. If he's carrying something (and this even goes back to season one) he's much more likely to land properly. If it's a vehicle full of people he'll even make a gentle touchdown.

Ralph Hinkley secretly likes crashing into stuff, that's what I think.
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Now I did a job. I got nothing but trouble since I did it, not to mention more than a few unkind words as regard to my character so let me make this abundantly clear. I do the job. And then I get paid.- Malcolm Reynolds, Captain of Serenity, which sums up my feelings regarding the lawsuit discussed here.

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Re: Old SF TV Show: The Greatest American Hero

Post by U.P. Cinnabar »

Broomstick wrote: is Cannell still working or retired?!
Neither. He's deceased.
Hill Street Blues where main characters do evolve and make significant changes over time.
Excellent show, but that was the other Steven. Steven J. Bochco, who also did L.A. Law, NYPD Blue, and the criminally-underrated City Of Angels, amongst others.
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