A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

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A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Archinist »

A small squad of 20 time lords are travelling in a group of 4 war Tardises when they hear is a strange plopping noise they realise they are on earth. Then some tentacles come out of the ground and a cthulhu appears and roars at them. Five time lords per Tardis. The time lords are armed with their standard loadout and have read books about Cthulhu.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Time Lords are pretty near the top of the sci-fi power scale, barring something like the Q. I mean, the name pretty much says it. TIME. LORD.

That said, some Time Lords are a lot less competent than others.

But I think they can take it unless they're utterly inept. Though admittedly my perspective may be skewed as I've seen relatively little of the old series, and Time Lords other than the Doctor and Master (hardly typical Time Lords) appear seldom in the new series.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Broomstick »

I thought Cthulhu was singular and not a species name. There is only one Cthulhu and "Cthulhu" is as close as a human throat can come to approximating his name.

Otherwise.... carry on.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Lord Revan »

Broomstick wrote:I thought Cthulhu was singular and not a species name. There is only one Cthulhu and "Cthulhu" is as close as a human throat can come to approximating his name.

Otherwise.... carry on.
indeed Cthulhu is indeed singular (all the great old ones are) and terms of power the great old ones are pratically divine (their mere presence can be enough to drive people unrecoverbly insane).
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Archinist »

The Romulan Republic wrote:Time Lords are pretty near the top of the sci-fi power scale, barring something like the Q. I mean, the name pretty much says it. TIME. LORD.

That said, some Time Lords are a lot less competent than others.

But I think they can take it unless they're utterly inept. Though admittedly my perspective may be skewed as I've seen relatively little of the old series, and Time Lords other than the Doctor and Master (hardly typical Time Lords) appear seldom in the new series.
Why are some time lords less competent than others? At universal level, they should all be as competent as each other. How powerful are incompetent time lords? Also, these time lords are not named characters but rather just generic time lords.
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Broomstick wrote:I thought Cthulhu was singular and not a species name. There is only one Cthulhu and "Cthulhu" is as close as a human throat can come to approximating his name.

Otherwise.... carry on.
indeed Cthulhu is indeed singular (all the great old ones are) and terms of power the great old ones are pratically divine (their mere presence can be enough to drive people unrecoverbly insane).
The time lords' Tardis should have powerful enough insulation on it to seal Cthulhu's chemicals from making the time lords insane, plus the time lords would probably be resistant to artificial insanity anyway. I mean, can't Tardises survive black holes and big crunches and even total destruction of universes?
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by The Romulan Republic »

My point is pretty much that most of the examples we have of Time Lord abilities are from exceptional individuals, and may not be representative of the average Time Lord.

A lot of Time Lords tend to be more beurocratic observers than actual participants in universal events. And on top of that, their are the multiple instances of Time Lord leadership being... well... absolutely evil. The crown jewel probably being the plan to destroy reality so they could escape the Time War and ascend as higher beings.

As to TARDISes. They do have shielding, but I have no idea if it would block whatever Cthulhu can do. However, I would also assume that a War TARDIS would have superior shielding to the Doctor's TARDIS.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

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The Romulan Republic wrote:My point is pretty much that most of the examples we have of Time Lord abilities are from exceptional individuals, and may not be representative of the average Time Lord.

A lot of Time Lords tend to be more beurocratic observers than actual participants in universal events. And on top of that, their are the multiple instances of Time Lord leadership being... well... absolutely evil. The crown jewel probably being the plan to destroy reality so they could escape the Time War and ascend as higher beings.

As to TARDISes. They do have shielding, but I have no idea if it would block whatever Cthulhu can do. However, I would also assume that a War TARDIS would have superior shielding to the Doctor's TARDIS.
That doesn't sound too evil. The time war was apparently making everyone go extinct anyway, so if they lost and didn't destroy the reality than everything except the daleks would have been destroyed, so they may as well destroy the reality in order to destroy the daleks so that when they evolve into stronger time lords then they could destroy the daleks and probably reverse all the destruction they caused.

I mean, what is the point of having a 99.99% chance of losing and all humans and aliens becoming extinct and the daleks ruling supreme when on the other hand you have a 100% chance of winning and destroying all other species including daleks right now instead of waiting for them to win and then evolve to become more powerful and then reverse the destruction of all those other races, even the daleks provided you can contain them properly?

Oh and also I meant for the TARDIS to be a battle TARDIS and not a war TARDIS.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by U.P. Cinnabar »

We've never seen a War TARDIS, have we? And, how do we know Cthulu's insanity is chemically-based?

And, could the Time Lords be able to use their TARDISes to seal Cthulu off in a pocket universe? After all, the Doctor was only able to do that for Gallifrey because he'd been working on the calculations throughout his lives, as was seen in The Day Of the Doctor, and as Rom pointed out, he was an exceptional individual in Time Lord society.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Crazedwraith »

Isn't the Doctor rather dim by Time Lord standards? Being more remarkable for his willingness to interfere rather than especial brilliance? Might be a depending on the writer thing.

Also the recent series did draw, as much as I dislike the concept, a distinction between the species and being a Time Lord. You have go through an academy to being a time lord, so there is a lower limit on the competence. You can't be a TL and entirely useless.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

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Archinist wrote:A small squad of 20 time lords are travelling in a group of 4 war Tardises when they hear is a strange plopping noise they realise they are on earth. Then some tentacles come out of the ground and a cthulhu appears and roars at them. Five time lords per Tardis. The time lords are armed with their standard loadout and have read books about Cthulhu.
Important question, are they in their TARDISes, or on foot? Because there's a vast difference. Time Lords might not even carry personal weapons.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Crazedwraith wrote:Isn't the Doctor rather dim by Time Lord standards? Being more remarkable for his willingness to interfere rather than especial brilliance? Might be a depending on the writer thing.

Also the recent series did draw, as much as I dislike the concept, a distinction between the species and being a Time Lord. You have go through an academy to being a time lord, so there is a lower limit on the competence. You can't be a TL and entirely useless.
Define "dim".

He appears to have less technical skill in some respects (barely being able to fly the TARDIS, for example, although it should be noted that his TARDIS is generally not operating with a full crew). However, he makes up for it by being more creative, more of an outside the box thinker, than the average Time Lord appears to be.

He also undoubtably has more practical experience with dealing with crises and getting his hands dirty than many.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

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The Romulan Republic wrote:He also undoubtably has more practical experience with dealing with crises and getting his hands dirty than many.
Yes and no. The majority of Time Lords are prepared to get a loooot more blood on their hands. Most Time Lord enemies are wiped out as a species.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by The Romulan Republic »

The Doctor does have multiple genocides to his name.

But my point was rather that he's more prepared to intervene in affairs directly than the Time Lords. A lot of the time, the closest they come to direct intervention is getting the Doctor to do it for them. ;)
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Tribble »

On the flip side, does Cthulhu have any particular resistance to time-based weapons? Planet killer weapons? Planet-moving tractor beams? Teleporters? Timelord tech is almost on par with Q in terms of capabilities, and they have been known to take out a deity or two (well at least the Doctor has been known to). If these are Time War era Timelords IMO they could beat Cthulhu, they were fighting a war where all of creation was literally at stake with their battles causing every moment in space and time to burn.

As for the Doctor... Considering that the Daleks and even other Timelords are terrified of him, I don't think he is your "typical" Timelord
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

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The Romulan Republic wrote:The Doctor does have multiple genocides to his name.

But my point was rather that he's more prepared to intervene in affairs directly than the Time Lords. A lot of the time, the closest they come to direct intervention is getting the Doctor to do it for them. ;)
Given the mention of battle-TARDISes I imagine they're going to be the more aggressive sort.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

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In any case, as we're using non-TV sources for Dr Who:
Dr Who: Virgin New Adventures 15: White Darkness wrote: Images. Random thoughts. Memories of other similar devices flickered for an instant. Devices on other worlds in other times. Time. The Time Winds that the Great Ones could travel were briefly remembered, as part of time travel performed by the Doctor. The Doctor, one time traveller among others. Others who called themselves – ‘Time Lords!’ Mait exclaimed, staggering back from the enhancer with the tiredness of expended effort. ‘So, our opponent is the Doctor, a Time Lord.’

He scratched his moustache thoughtfully.

‘What is a Time Lord?’ Henri asked confusedly.

‘I’m not quite sure,’ Mait replied with lowered brows. ‘I received. . . images of what they do, but it was so garbled and confused. . . ’ He steadied himself on the arm of a chair. ‘There was the feeling of great power and of familiarity. The Great Ones know of these people’ and consider them a danger; that much I know.’

‘How can anyone be a danger to them?’

‘This Time Lord is also from beyond the stars, Henri, just like them. He may have knowledge of them. He, or others, may have met them before, and fought against them.’

‘Then we just kill him first.’

‘A most dull and unimaginative way to proceed, but I fear you may be right.

Did the guard say which way he went?’

‘Towards the cemetery.’

‘What! The cemetery where the ceremony will begin? If we are quick, we may be able to stop him from desecrating the site.’ Mait lifted the telephone.

[...]
‘So this creature, this Old One, will have been killed in the explosions?’ Howard said.
‘No no no.’ The Doctor shook his head, and pulled a bunch of grapes from his upturned hat, depositing them at Petion’s bedside. ‘As I told Ace, they can’t be killed in this universe. They originally came from some other universe, other dimension – one of the outer planes, most likely – and part of their being still resides there. Another part exists in their physical form, but that can’t do anything without the third ingredient.’

‘Their consciousness?’ Benny suggested.

‘It’s as good a word as any. Their consciousness can travel on its own, riding the Time Winds, even. But it’s reliant on the natural forces of the universe to open gateways for it.’

‘When the stars are right, you mean,’ Howard said.

‘Exactly, the tidal forces of stellar masses in conjunction are sometimes enough to rip a hole through the fabric of space-time and give them the path they need. So long as their consciousness is out there, it can’t physically do anything, but the body’s automatic instincts can be powerful enough on the telepathic wavelengths to attune themselves to receptive minds and influence them into providing assistance when the stars are right.

‘Why do they need assistance? Can’t they just slip back into their bodies like a zombi astral?’ Petion asked from where he was propped up on his bed.

‘No because the universe is constantly expanding and evolving, which means the stars will never quite return to exactly the same formation they
were in when that consciousness left. Therefore they need followers to perform rituals that attract the attention of the autonomic instincts which can then generate that extra bit of focus necessary to bridge the difference between the positions of of stars then and now.’

‘So when will the stars be right next?’ Howard asked worriedly,

‘There are some things even I don’t know, unfortunately, And that’s one of them. Anyway, we’d better be going, I suppose. Now that the island is secure, you can join your wife, Petion, and at least you’ll have some interesting tales for your grandchildren.
This is actual Cthulhu, according to the author. Actual, no-kidding, Cthulhu. The Doctor defeats it by burying its followers and preventing the ritual.

Notably though, he has detailed information on the Old Ones, and knows how to defeat them. While the Old One/Cthulhu also knows of Time Lords and considers them a danger to its person.

If they have their war machines then they can in extremis, just blow up its followers and prevent the stars being right.

The unique thing about the mythos in crossover scenarios is because of the way Lovecraft's intellectual property ended up we know concretely how they'd work in various universes, because they're present. For instance the Suhbekhar Dynasty of Necrons in 40K destroyed Xoth, Cthulhu's previous homeworld (but not birth-world) and exterminated a variety of lesser Mythos species.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Solauren »

Easy enough to deal with Cthulhu
Go back into the TARDIS's
Turn off (or turn down) the mass-shift feature (that's what lets a TARDIS land on a planet without collapsing part of that planets crush), so the TARDIS weights 100 times that of Cthulhu.
Fly speed Ram Cthulhu, or land on him.

Result - Cthulhu pancakes.

Alternate Method:
Press the TARDIS's against Cthulhu's body
Fly Cthulhu up into space
Go find a blackhole and toss it in.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Purple »

Why would you want to defeat him though? Why not join him in bringing glorious madness to the world? Much cooler.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

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The Time Lords don't, as a rule, care what happens to worlds like Earth, they wiped it out once.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Lord Revan »

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the madness caused by the Old Ones basically a side effect of having witnessed something that's "wrong" in such a fundamental level that your mind is simply unable to process what you see and breaks down in terror of seeing something so "wrong", rather then the madness being something the Old Ones have to spread willingly.

Also isn't also more of a "claw out your own eyes in terror" madness then "creative" madness.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by NecronLord »

Primarily, yes. Which makes the White Darkness quote particularly relevant; the Old Ones fit inside the Time Lords' frame of reference quite neatly and the Doctor can give a scientific explanation for much of Cthulhu's nature. Time Lords aren't going mad from exposure to the truth of the Great Old Ones.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by Parallax »

The Doctor isn't 'dim' by Time Lord standards. That idea comes primarily comes from two ideas but they're wrong:
1) He only barely passed his Time Lord Academy exams. He did this on purpose, as to succeed well would have meant relegation to some incredibly dull Time Lord post, whilst failure would have had unfortunate consequences.
2) He couldn't fly his own TARDIS. His antiquated, hopelessly broken TARDIS. Even by the start of the 7th Doctor, half the systems still aren't working properly. He also, usually, seemed rather content to just let the TARDIS fly itself and take him wherever.

Someone mentioned pressing a TARDIS against the big ol' beastie and flying it into space. Not needed. In Creature From The Pit (4th Doctor), a race of aliens decide to wipe out a planet by ... throwing a neutron star at it. No, I'm not kidding. They obviously don't think overkill is a bad thing. Anyhow, the TARDIS creates a tractor beam that is able to move said neutron star and the day is saved. Yep, even a broken antique TARDIS can move neutron stars.

Most Time Lords that we've seen have been ineffectual monitor watchers, who are absolutely useless in any sort of actual conflict. Just look at what they do in The Invasion of Time (when Sontarans invaded Gallifrey). Or when Omega tries to come back into the real Universe (The Arc of Infinity).

I would assume, in this scenario, the Time Lords are utterly safe while in their TARDISes. The mix of physical shields and telepathic circuits would ward off any ill effects. And from there, their options are many indeed. Whack a time bubble around the area, forever sealing it off from the rest of the Universe. Use the TARDIS' gravity beams to haul the ol' beastie into the nearest star. Materialise a TARDIS around Cthulhu and then detonate it, if worse comes to worse.


http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Cthulhu

There was also a Big Finish audio wherein the 7th Doctor encounters Cthuluhu-esque monstrosities.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Lurkers_at ... dio_story)
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

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NecronLord wrote:The Time Lords don't, as a rule, care what happens to worlds like Earth, they wiped it out once.
Trial of a Time Lord, yes?
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by NecronLord »

Indeed. I'm aware that they did so in secret even from their own population, but it's hardly something they're too upset about; really apart from being a VS scenario, I'd think they'd just watch, and do nothing, or leave, if they have their TARDISes, and no orders to kill it. It can't really harm them.
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Re: A group of Time Lords encounter a Cthulhu

Post by U.P. Cinnabar »

Lord Revan wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the madness caused by the Old Ones basically a side effect of having witnessed something that's "wrong" in such a fundamental level that your mind is simply unable to process what you see and breaks down in terror of seeing something so "wrong", rather then the madness being something the Old Ones have to spread willingly.

Also isn't also more of a "claw out your own eyes in terror" madness then "creative" madness.
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