You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

You wake up in the world of Mad Max: Fury Road, and are now the recognized ruler of the Citadel. You may pursue whatever policies you wish, but keep in mind that you will have to deal with the frequent marauders and warlords, and the resources shortages and environmental destruction, of the setting.

Although the location of the Citadel is never specified in the film, as I understand it Mad Max is supposed to be in Australia, and I will assume for the purposes of this thread that the Citadel is about half-way between the northern and southern tips of Australia, a little to west of the Great Dividing Range (as that seems to vaguely fit the geography of the film- over the span of a few days, they go through a mountain pass to reach where the coastline used to be). If someone more familiar with Australian geography wishes to give a better guess, feel free.

Scenario one: pre-Furiosa's revolt.

Scenario two: post-Furiosa's revolt.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Darth Tedious
Jedi Master
Posts: 1082
Joined: 2011-01-16 08:48pm

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by Darth Tedious »

Location-wise, I'd suggest Broken Hill, in western New South Wales
It fits the bill perfectly, and was the location used for a lot of Road Warrior
Fury Road was slated to be filmed there, but unusual amounts of rain made it look less 'barren and desolate' than usual, forcing a production move
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is the intended in-universe location (at least for Fury Road, if not the earlier movies)
"Darth Tedious just showed why women can go anywhere they want because they are, in effect, mobile kitchens." - RazorOutlaw

"That could never happen because super computers." - Stark

"Don't go there girl! Talk to the VTOL cause the glass canopy ain't listening!" - Shroomy
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Darth Tedious wrote:Location-wise, I'd suggest Broken Hill, in western New South Wales
It fits the bill perfectly, and was the location used for a lot of Road Warrior
Fury Road was slated to be filmed there, but unusual amounts of rain made it look less 'barren and desolate' than usual, forcing a production move
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is the intended in-universe location (at least for Fury Road, if not the earlier movies)
Okay, Broken Hill it is then.

Also, to clarify the backstory-

For scenario one, assume one week before Furiosa leaves, Joe drops dead of chronic assholism and you take his place for (insert reason). Assume that as a consequence you are recognized as a prophet or deity by Joe's cult.

For scenario two, as above except that its one week after Furiosa's departure and in this scenario, things proceed as in canon except that Furiosa does not take control of the Citadel. Joe still died chasing her in the desert.

Edit: For the latter scenario, assume also that casualties matched those in the film, so you don't start with full Warboy manpower, and People Eater and Bullet Farmer are pushing up daisies (or whatever grows in the post-apocalyptic wastelands of Australia).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Purple
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5233
Joined: 2010-04-20 08:31am
Location: In a purple cube orbiting this planet. Hijacking satellites for an internet connection.

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by Purple »

I know absolutely zero about the setting, what with not having seen the film. But in scenario #1 I'd say that the thing to do would be to have a sitdown with the woman and try and work things out. I do not know what her problem is, but an educated guess based on the original setting tells me that what ever it is it has to do with some sort of oppression on part of the old ruler. And that thus the solution should be straightforward.

Either she can get in on the oppressing instead of being oppressed. Or she and who ever she wants to take with her get free passage out of my lands as long as she agrees to set up outside of my borders and make friendly in the future.
It has become clear to me in the previous days that any attempts at reconciliation and explanation with the community here has failed. I have tried my best. I really have. I pored my heart out trying. But it was all for nothing.

You win. There, I have said it.

Now there is only one thing left to do. Let us see if I can sum up the strength needed to end things once and for all.
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7689
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by FaxModem1 »

Here's a consideration, just how much water is there in the citadel to spread around? The film has Immortal Joe rationing water and trying to have everyone subsist off of human milk instead. Furiosa, post takeover, says nuts to that and opens up the water mains for everyone. Cinematically, it's satisfying, but Curiosa could be robbing Peter to pay Paul here.
Image
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

That's a fair point. Its never explained in the film.

Although I'm fairly sure a more efficient method of rationing could be used than what Joe was doing (periodically turn the taps on for a while and let the mob fight over it).

As to Purple's points:

The setting, as I understand it, is basically a near-future post-apocalyptic setting brought about by oil/water shortages and nuclear war. The sea levels have also evidently dropped significantly (its implied in the film that the oceans no longer exist, but we had a whole thread on why that's impossible: https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/veiwtopic ... 4&t=163698), and due to contamination and lack of water, it seems that their are few places where you can successfully grow food.

Immorten Joe is the leader of a death cult based on bastardized Norse mythology. He controls a fortress, hollowed out of a large cliff or mountain, called the Citadel, which has access to clean water (and thus food) from underground. He's basically worshiped as a sort of deity by his warriors, known as Warboys. He also has the backing of a couple other local warlords, known as the People Eater and Bullet Farmer.

Furiosa is one of his top commanders, who was captured from another tribe when she was a child, along with her mother (who did not survive). The plot of the film is largely driven by her attempt to desert Joe's regime, and take his harem of sex slaves with her. Her goals are to return to her home before she was captured, and to redeem herself (presumably for atrocities she committed under Joe's command).

Their are also a number of other communities in the area, mostly small motorized bands of brigands and raiders.

Environmental hazards likely include radiation poisoning, as well as (obviously) thirst and starvation. Oh, and don't forget the giant sandstorms/lightning storms. :D

As to your plan,its not that bad, actually. Letting Furiosa go without a fight might possibly weaken your authority, but its probably better than fighting a civil war, and your terms are reasonable and pragmatic, and likely to be acceptable to her since she won't have the personal history with you that she does with Joe.

And you should see the movie, because its excellent (in my opinion, the best movie I saw from 2015, narrowly beating out The Martian).
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Zor
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5886
Joined: 2004-06-08 03:37am

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by Zor »

Build solar furnaces and basic solar electric power plants. We still have sunlight, we'll make the most of it.

Zor
HAIL ZOR! WE'LL BLOW UP THE OCEAN!
Heros of Cybertron-HAB-Keeper of the Vicious pit of Allosauruses-King Leighton-I, United Kingdom of Zoria: SD.net World/Tsar Mikhail-I of the Red Tsardom: SD.net Kingdoms
WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/ind
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/tra
Terran Sphere
The Art of Zor
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7689
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by FaxModem1 »

Even though this is Mad Max, where muscle cars and machine guns are everywhere, I'm not sure that Citadel, Bullet Town or Gas Town have enough of an industry to make solar panels. And even if they do, I'm not sure Gastown will be happy that we're working to make them irrelevant.That could lead to a trade war, which in Mad Max, means people shooting at you.
Image
Crazedwraith
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10968
Joined: 2003-04-10 03:45pm
Location: Cheshire, England

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by Crazedwraith »

I immediately direct them to shoot Saren repeatedly and take Shepard seriously when they talk about reapers.

Ooops... Wrong citadel.

I assume Furiosa was right and give the people the water and get the hell out of the way before I get shanked.
User avatar
Zor
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5886
Joined: 2004-06-08 03:37am

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by Zor »

FaxModem1 wrote:Even though this is Mad Max, where muscle cars and machine guns are everywhere, I'm not sure that Citadel, Bullet Town or Gas Town have enough of an industry to make solar panels.
You don't need solar panels. Get mirrors, angle them to a central point and use them to melt metal or heat boilers.

Zor
HAIL ZOR! WE'LL BLOW UP THE OCEAN!
Heros of Cybertron-HAB-Keeper of the Vicious pit of Allosauruses-King Leighton-I, United Kingdom of Zoria: SD.net World/Tsar Mikhail-I of the Red Tsardom: SD.net Kingdoms
WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/ind
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/tra
Terran Sphere
The Art of Zor
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Zor wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:Even though this is Mad Max, where muscle cars and machine guns are everywhere, I'm not sure that Citadel, Bullet Town or Gas Town have enough of an industry to make solar panels.
You don't need solar panels. Get mirrors, angle them to a central point and use them to melt metal or heat boilers.

Zor
For that matter, there must be some people left in the world who have some knowledge of more advanced engineering. At the very least, somebody is maintaining all those vehicles and weapons and all the machinery for pumping water that Immorten Joe has. And the Mad Max verse is supposed to be within living memory of the collapse of civilization.

They ain't going to be building rocketships or anything, but we're not dealing with complete primitives here.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
FaxModem1
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7689
Joined: 2002-10-30 06:40pm
Location: In a dark reflection of a better world

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by FaxModem1 »

Zor wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:Even though this is Mad Max, where muscle cars and machine guns are everywhere, I'm not sure that Citadel, Bullet Town or Gas Town have enough of an industry to make solar panels.
You don't need solar panels. Get mirrors, angle them to a central point and use them to melt metal or heat boilers.

Zor
Just how many glass blowers survived the apocalypse? And again, how will Gastown handle being made outdated and unneeded for power concerns?
Image
User avatar
The Romulan Republic
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 21559
Joined: 2008-10-15 01:37am

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Okay, so how to go about this:

Scenario One- As much as I loath theocracy, I don't think I can afford to try to undermine the belief system of the Warboys too much at first if I don't want to risk ending up dead and leaving the place in anarchy. Though I'm not going to push it the way Joe did, and will try to gradually move away from it, or at least channel it into something less destructive.

The very first thing I do is open up the water supply to celebrate my ascension to power. However, rationing may be an issue long-term, as discussed in this thread, so a more equitable and less wasteful means of distribution needs to be set up. I look into the solar power idea as well.

Then I talk to Furiosa. See if I can persuade her to stay on now that Joe is gone, because she's too God damn competent to lose, especially compared to the mob of barely coherent nut jobs and imbeciles that I mostly have to work with here. She also has conscience enough not to be pointlessly evil, but ruthlessness enough to be effective in this world.

I also put an end to Joe's harem, of course. Slavery is abolished, beyond whatever forced labour may be required, short-term, to keep this society functional.

If Furiosa goes, try to maintain contact with her wherever she ends up and maybe set up some sort of alliance/trade deal as equal partners.

Next step is to put together an advisory Council because a) I haven't lived in this world and don't know all its ins and outs, and b) it is a very small first step towards a less authoritarian society. Since I will obviously not use Immorten Joe's method of raping sex slaves to try to produce an heir, and the odds of producing a healthy child aren't great in this society, I will in any case need an alternative means of acquiring a successor. I can't just designate a successor though without great care, as that would provide a huge incentive for whoever I designated to off me. I see a couple options:

1. Designate one of Joe's "wives" as my successor. Either Angharad (if possible) or Capable, I think. It might be hard for the macho Warboy culture to swallow, but I think my support, combined with their connection to the old leader and the fact that Furiosa was able to rise through the ranks should be enough. I hope. Also, neither of them possesses the personality to knife me in the back to speed up the succession process. However, by the same token, I don't think either of them is ruthless enough to be an effective leader in this setting, not unless someone implements substantial changes first. Neither am I, really, but I want a good successor.

Furiosa is an option if she stays and I am sufficiently convinced that she won't murder me or simply desert. She would Joe, in a heartbeat, if she thought she could get away with it, so I'm not prepared to trust her fully initially.

2. Have the Council vote on a successor in the event that I die or am otherwise unable to continue ruling without appointing one myself. This appeals to me, as it is another incremental step away from authoritarianism and back towards a civilized society built on the rule of law.

Once I have things under control back home, I move to consolidate power over Gas Town and any other nearby settlements. I will happily recruit any of the mob who can walk, swing a weapon, and follow orders, with promises of more food/water and general better treatment to those who fight. The Warboys, however, will remain the core of my fighting force. That said, I will have to try to overcome their more suicidal impulses, or at least reign them in a bit. Make it less "Die in battle" and more "Go down fighting if you have to, but accomplish as much as you can for the cause first rather than just throwing your life away."

Aside from that, scenario one and two offer different issues here.

In scenario one, People Eater and Bullet Farmer are still around, presumably with their own goons. They are friendly to Joe, but may distrust me. However, I will have a lot more manpower to deal with them if it comes to that. I might offer a negotiation, then ambush them when they come to meet with me. Yeah, its negotiating in bad faith, but its probably the fastest way to deal with the problem short of just storming their settlements by brute force, which will likely be more costly than I would prefer.

In scenario two, they're dead, along with at least some goons, so I can likely just waltz in if I can overcome my own manpower issues.

Its also possible that the cult of Joe will be strong enough to give me allies on the inside. I believe Bullet Farmer and People Eater had some of Joe's Warboys with them in the film.

As Fusiosa seems to be my best commander, putting her in charge of one or both offensives seems logical, if she's willing to do it.

From there, I move to take the pass where the biker gang is holed up. If its scenario two, they're mostly dead, and if its scenario one, I have the manpower to overwhelm them unless I take heavy losses against Bullet Farmer and People Eater. I set a permanent guard on the pass, a sort of border fort, and make that the edge of my territory. This plus the mountains will essentially secure me against raiders on one front.

From their, a concerted effort to mop up any marauders within a couple days' drive of any of my fortifications or settlements. I'll give them three choices:

1. Work for me, get food, water, gas and a place to sleep, and a chance for high rank in my forces, in exchange for going where I tell them and not killing, breaking, or stealing anything without my authorization.

2. Leave my territory and never come back.

3. Die.

On that note, I will employ exile as an alternative to death for offenders. Don't know if I have the resources to spare on a prison system. For more minor offences, a system of incentives and rewards based on performance seems doable and reasonable, and not too out of step with some of Joe's methods.

Long term, I'd like to set up some sort of roadway system, at least over the relatively short distance between the Citadel and Gas Town, and wherever Bullet Farmer was based if possible (we never see his home base in the film). Maybe as far out as the pass if possible. I'd also like to set up some kind of education system and historical records to ensure that important knowledge from the past is not completely lost. The final line of the film is attributed to someone called "The First History Man", so maybe that's something to work with.

I'd also like to set the foundations for further expansion. I'm going to assume that their are other areas of the world that are similarly habitable, and that civilization will likely eventually rebuild their. That means potential rivals/conquerors down the line. While I don't see any way reliable way to prevent further destructive warfare like that which destroyed civilization to begin with short of one faction securely taking the whole planet, and no way to pull that off, its probably going to be a while before their are large, ocean-going invasions (like, maybe centuries), so for now, a "Manifest Destiny for Australia" type expansion should be sufficient to secure my borders, unless sea levels have fallen enough to provide a land link to Asia. It will probably take more than one regime (read- lifetime) to achieve this, though.

Hmm... given that the sea has fallen and temperatures have presumably gone up, I wonder if Antarctica might be more habitable than in the present, especially given that it likely would have been nuked little, if at all. An exploratory mission south might not be out of place, albeit probably a goal for a subsequent generation.
"I know its easy to be defeatist here because nothing has seemingly reigned Trump in so far. But I will say this: every asshole succeeds until finally, they don't. Again, 18 months before he resigned, Nixon had a sky-high approval rating of 67%. Harvey Weinstein was winning Oscars until one day, he definitely wasn't."-John Oliver

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-General Von Clauswitz, describing my opinion of Bernie or Busters and third partiers in a nutshell.

I SUPPORT A NATIONAL GENERAL STRIKE TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM OFFICE.
User avatar
Zor
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5886
Joined: 2004-06-08 03:37am

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by Zor »

FaxModem1 wrote:
Zor wrote:
FaxModem1 wrote:Even though this is Mad Max, where muscle cars and machine guns are everywhere, I'm not sure that Citadel, Bullet Town or Gas Town have enough of an industry to make solar panels.
You don't need solar panels. Get mirrors, angle them to a central point and use them to melt metal or heat boilers.

Zor
Just how many glass blowers survived the apocalypse?
Then we'll cultivate glass makers. People have been making glass for longer than they've been making iron. If anyone has any experience with glass making, find them and have them train apprentices. Also aquire as many pre-war mirrors as possible.
And again, how will Gastown handle being made outdated and unneeded for power concerns?
We still need gas to run cars. They won't mind. Hell, we could run a line to them and trade electricity FOR gas. Even if they can generate electricity with gas powered engines, they'd appreciate having a renewable supply of the stuff that does not mean burning their finite supply of oil.

Also, set up windmills with generators. Kids in Africa can do so with scraps, so can we.

Zor
HAIL ZOR! WE'LL BLOW UP THE OCEAN!
Heros of Cybertron-HAB-Keeper of the Vicious pit of Allosauruses-King Leighton-I, United Kingdom of Zoria: SD.net World/Tsar Mikhail-I of the Red Tsardom: SD.net Kingdoms
WHEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON EARTH, ALL EARTH BREAKS LOOSE ON HELL
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/ind
http://zortropolis.myminicity.com/tra
Terran Sphere
The Art of Zor
User avatar
MKSheppard
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Ruthless Genocidal Warmonger
Posts: 29595
Joined: 2002-07-06 06:34pm

Re: You Rule the Citadel (RAR).

Post by MKSheppard »

The Romulan Republic wrote:At the very least, somebody is maintaining all those vehicles and weapons and all the machinery for pumping water that Immorten Joe has.
The Gigahorse was a real vehicle with two real engines linked together by a transmission gearbox to generate 1,000+ hp. All custom built by a present day hotrod shop, and it needed to have the gearbox re-aligned/re-shimmed at the end of each days' shooting.

Tells you a lot about IMMORTAN TRUMP'S organizational skills. :D
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
Post Reply