Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

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Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby JamesStaley » 2016-02-21 10:49pm

Why is there NO dedicated column for the discussion of Babylon Five? I know there must be be B5'ers in this crowd SOMEWHERE!

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Mr Bean » 2016-02-21 11:15pm

JamesStaley wrote:Why is there NO dedicated column for the discussion of Babylon Five? I know there must be be B5'ers in this crowd SOMEWHERE!

Because Babylon 5 is on the bottom tier of bottom tier for VS battles and this forum was founded back when SW Vs ST was the big thing... over a decade ago.

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Batman » 2016-02-21 11:16pm

1. There was no need to make TWO threads for this.
2. ESPECIALLY not in Trek vs Wars, which Trek vs B5 has nothing to do with. You think this topic should have its own entry, the proper place to bring this up would've been other SciFi.
3. There's been plenty of Trek vs B5 discussions IN OSF.

And the bottom of the bottom tier clearly belongs to BattleTech.
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Mr Bean » 2016-02-21 11:18pm

Batman wrote:And the bottom of the bottom tier clearly belongs to BattleTech.

We'll if we are going to debate about this then clearly it's something like Cowboy Bebop, it qualifies as Sci-Fi but Earth is a shithole thanks to the whole moon explosion and large scale industry is limited to Mars which is 1/5th what modern earth produces.

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Batman » 2016-02-21 11:21pm

Does Cowboy Bebop employ weapons that would be laughed at by 20th century real world militaries?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Mr Bean » 2016-02-21 11:22pm

Batman wrote:Does Cowboy Bebop employ weapons that would be laughed at by 20th century real world militaries?

It employs the exact same weapons of 20th century real world militaries except it's lost all the tanks, heavy artillery and nuclear weapons.

They do have have spaceships but not exactly big ones... but they do have many.

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Batman » 2016-02-21 11:26pm

I'll take that as a 'yes' then. Duly noted.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Soontir C'boath » 2016-02-22 01:23am

Well, if the current state of SWvsST is any indication, it'd be dead quiet. The Science Fiction catch-all works fine.
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby NecronLord » 2016-02-22 10:30am

Threads merged, duplicate post deleted, topic relocated.
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby FedRebel » 2016-02-22 10:42am

JamesStaley wrote:Why is there NO dedicated column for the discussion of Babylon Five? I know there must be be B5'ers in this crowd SOMEWHERE!


This Forum is a relic from the Great Star Trek versus Star Wars ...Wars

That subforum was the primary field of battle.


'Vs. B5' has never really been a thing. Babylon 5 was more of a niche franchise, holds a universal cult following, and there's no dispute regarding that universe's ability to stand up to other fictions.

If you want to lobby for just a dedicated B5 subforum, others have greater right, Stargate outshines B5 in breadth of material, Doctor Who should also get dibs before B5....and the list goes on.....

Really given the debate wars are long over, these days it's educating the young and policing trolls, do we even need a ST vs SW subforum anymore. Lock it as an archive, for the historical record of Trekkies slain.

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-02-22 11:21am

A lot of anime is a rather curious animal when it comes to high tech. You have stuff like Cowboy Bebop where they're zooming around the solar system as a matter of course... but their guns are identical to modern-day weaponry. Neon Genesis Evangelion, where there are giant biological mecha fighting massive alien creatures... but they still use modern-day MBT's and IFV's, and Shinji uses a ~90s SDAT tape player. There's a lot of stuff out there in anime where they've got strange technological disparities going on.

Anyway, on topic. B5 is kinda low end, but the fact is that versus debating in general has kinda passed a bit. Forums have become more of a social thing.
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Iroscato » 2016-02-22 11:24am

The debate was settled long ago. Trek roflstomps all other franchises including SW, B5, WH40K, BSG, Cultureverse combined and quintupled.

Kthxbai

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby NecronLord » 2016-02-22 02:49pm

No trolling thank you Chimaera.
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Tribble » 2016-02-22 06:05pm

To be fair to battle tech, they'd easily slaughter a star trek army in a ground war, though that's not exactly saying much lol
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Batman » 2016-02-22 06:32pm

The freaking Wehrmacht would probably slaughter a Star Trek army in a ground war because those morons have no fucking clue about how to best use their weapons.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-02-22 06:35pm

It might be fascinating to sort out a rough list of ground forces, compare them against say WWII level and modern day Western militaries, see which ones come out worse... I'm almost tempted to say that in a *rational* versus Battletech would lose against a modern military :P
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Batman » 2016-02-22 06:38pm

The difference is Trek loses because they're stupid. BattleTech loses because their weapons are significantly inferior to modern world stuff.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Elheru Aran » 2016-02-22 06:43pm

Batman wrote:The difference is Trek loses because they're stupid. BattleTech loses because their weapons are significantly inferior to modern world stuff.


Fair enough, I still remember one of my first posts being something about a Mech going up against a column of MBT's... *shudder*

Seriously though, Mechs and associated stupidity aside, what about the rest of BT ground forces? Or were they really just that colossally shitty?
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Tribble » 2016-02-22 09:55pm

Elheru Aran wrote:
Batman wrote:The difference is Trek loses because they're stupid. BattleTech loses because their weapons are significantly inferior to modern world stuff.


Fair enough, I still remember one of my first posts being something about a Mech going up against a column of MBT's... *shudder*

Seriously though, Mechs and associated stupidity aside, what about the rest of BT ground forces? Or were they really just that colossally shitty?


IMO the one area where the BT universe is completely deficient technology-wise is in long-range weapons. A "Long-Range Missile" in the BT universe can only travel about 1km or so, which is ridiculously short by military standards. It's one of the sillier aspects of that universe- they have FTL ships and communications and can build 100+ ton giant robots to fight each other, but they can't build a rocket that travels more than a kilometer?

Apart from that, I don't see how the technology itself is inferior. IMO their short-medium weapons are at least equal to if not superior to a modern military. Even their smallest lasers would be able to cut through most of our vehicles with ease, and I doubt any main battle tank could withstand a hit from larger weapons like PPCs or Gauss Rifles. Their energy weapons have the additional advantage of not running out of ammo. Their armour is nothing to sneer at either, and pound-for-pound it's at least equal if not superior to a modern military. Plus, they are able to build things like powered armour and fusion-powered battlemechs which can operate in practically any environment (including space), which is more than what were capable of at present. I'm sure a modern military would find plenty of uses for BT technology.

The biggest problem (apart from the lack of long range weapons for their ground forces) is that, like Star Trek, their tech is used very poorly. Battlemechs are a terrible idea from a military standpoint, and against any competent military they are little more than giant walking targets. Also, combined arms tactics are pretty rare in the BT universe (although they do happen from time to time). And the number of troops / equipment involved is laughably small compared to a modern military, I've read books where a single lance of mechs took over a planet. Of course, all of these weaknesses are because at the end of the day its really just a game involving giant robots fighting-each other, and any explanation as to why that is taking place was going to be absurd.
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Imperial Overlord » 2016-02-22 11:56pm

The range issue for Battletech is simply a game play convenience. Like tabletop 40K or Warmachine it's not meant to be taken as the literal capabilities of the weapon but as a means of facilitating a play style that includes brutal short range combat. The issue with BT is that some of the fluff writers took it serious so it lingers but that the weapons have longer effective ranges has been established multiple times, mostly in the Mechwarrior side of game. Also combined arms warfare is fairly common in Battletech, especially in it's later incarnations.
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby JamesStaley » 2016-02-23 02:45am

Batman wrote:1. There was no need to make TWO threads for this.
2. ESPECIALLY not in Trek vs Wars, which Trek vs B5 has nothing to do with. You think this topic should have its own entry, the proper place to bring this up would've been other SciFi.
3. There's been plenty of Trek vs B5 discussions IN OSF.

And the bottom of the bottom tier clearly belongs to BattleTech.


Sorry about the double post. That was an accident: my hitting the "submit" twice.

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby JamesStaley » 2016-02-23 02:57am

Chimaera wrote:The debate was settled long ago. Trek roflstomps all other franchises including SW, B5, WH40K, BSG, Cultureverse combined and quintupled.

Kthxbai

*Runs*


"The debate is over" SAYS WHO!?? If that's the case, then what is this forum still doing here?

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby JamesStaley » 2016-02-23 03:30am

Elheru Aran wrote:A lot of anime is a rather curious animal when it comes to high tech. You have stuff like Cowboy Bebop where they're zooming around the solar system as a matter of course... but their guns are identical to modern-day weaponry. Neon Genesis Evangelion, where there are giant biological mecha fighting massive alien creatures... but they still use modern-day MBT's and IFV's, and Shinji uses a ~90s SDAT tape player. There's a lot of stuff out there in anime where they've got strange technological disparities going on.

Anyway, on topic. B5 is kinda low end, but the fact is that versus debating in general has kinda passed a bit. Forums have become more of a social thing.


Conventional wisdom once held that there would be no more "conventional" war once nukes were created and everybody was armed with them. SO MUCH FOR "CONVENTIONAL" wisdom! :lol: Just because you've got some Ultra-Super-Weapon doesn't mean you don't need the small ones any more. The mighty USA is using men on horses to try to track down Taliban fighers in the caves of Afghanistan. How "High Tech" is that?!!
There's a lot of stuff in the real world where strange technological disparities are going on. Like for instance, my inability to get high speed DSL internet service because I live in the town of Jones, Oklahoma and NO high-speed internet service provider wants to come out here......too far off the beaten path! :banghead: Yet if I moved a mere 7 miles to the south of me into Oklahoma City, I could get all of the High-Speed connections my heart desires (and is DESPERATELY LONGING FOR!).

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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Lord Revan » 2016-02-23 04:57am

JamesStaley wrote:
Chimaera wrote:The debate was settled long ago. Trek roflstomps all other franchises including SW, B5, WH40K, BSG, Cultureverse combined and quintupled.

Kthxbai

*Runs*


"The debate is over" SAYS WHO!?? If that's the case, then what is this forum still doing here?

if you've been here long you'd know that was a rather bad attempt at a joke/trolling, since that's what the rabid trekkie fanatics that were the orginal cause for forming this forum said.
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Re: Why is there no Star Trek vs B5 column?

Postby Iroscato » 2016-02-23 09:49am

Lord Revan wrote:
JamesStaley wrote:
Chimaera wrote:The debate was settled long ago. Trek roflstomps all other franchises including SW, B5, WH40K, BSG, Cultureverse combined and quintupled.

Kthxbai

*Runs*


"The debate is over" SAYS WHO!?? If that's the case, then what is this forum still doing here?

if you've been here long you'd know that was a rather bad attempt at a joke/trolling, since that's what the rabid trekkie fanatics that were the orginal cause for forming this forum said.

Your words cut deep sir. I poured my heart and soul into that :P

I was gently trolling, for which I apologise. Mea culpa.

That being said, I would say the debate has pretty much...dried up in recent years - certainly on this board. It's moved into a more general discussion forum populated by people more slanted towards geekdom such as myself. Babylon 5 was always a more niche fandom to start with (not saying that's indiciative of its quality though, I have yet to watch it) when you get an already small BBS there are going to be very few people willing to seriously discuss/debate it at length.

Also, the forum exists because it's still used (albeit in a more general sense), and because Mike hasn't pulled the plug yet. I hope it stays for a while yet - I've always liked this place.
Yeah, I've always taken the subtext of the Birther movement to be, "The rules don't count here! This is different! HE'S BLACK! BLACK, I SAY! ARE YOU ALL BLIND!?

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