Doctor Who S08 E13 - "Last Christmas"

[Iroscato]

Yay, I get to start a thread on a DW episode!
What did we all make of it? I really quite enjoyed it myself, probably the best christmas special since Christmas Invasion. Not uh...not that that's setting the bar too high. The obvious influences from Alien and Inception didn't really hamper the experience for me, though it seems to have troubled some online.
Revealing Santa as a mental construct (OR WAS HE?!) was a nice way of being able to put the character on screen, have some fun with the concept, without completely jumping the shark. Maybe gently stepping over a tranquilised shark ever so softly. I dunno. Too much drink to figure it out.
The only thing that disappointed me was Clara staying on for what looks like another series. Time for a change, let's get (another) non-human in the TARDIS for once.
So, thoughts?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Honestly, it was njoyable enough right up until the ending, with the fakeout of Clara being old and the Doctor giving her a Last Christmas. That would have been a reasonable end to it. But no. We even get a "The Doctor and Clara will return" title card. Fucks sake, just saying The Doctor will return is enough.

Aside from that it was a surprisingly enjoyable episode. Mess around with the Santa idea without having him actually be real. Worked for me.

[SpottedKitty]

Well, everyone here enjoyed it. The "surreal" dial being turned up to 11 made it an... interesting experience, though. And the "nested dreams" bit was pretty well done; I'd almost forgotten about the chaotic way the first infirmary scene ended by the time the big reveal came about.

I wonder if the Doctor was right about the fourth dreamer, that he "woke up dead" somewhere?

Have to watch it again in tomorrow's repeat, see how many bits I missed while going "whoah!" at other bits.

4/5. Looking forward to the new season; I wonder if the title suggests Clara doing more "acting like the Doctor" adventures?

[Joun_Lord]

It was okay. Nothing special but nothing offensive. The ending was bad with the fake-out and the promise that the Doc and !!CLARA!! would be returning.

I don't hate Clara but for fucks sake we are watching DOCTOR WHO not fucking Clara Who or Doctor Clara or whatever. I want Peter Capaldi to actually shine as the Doctor before his replacement with PC Doc probably fairly soon. Clara just isn't interesting enough to carry the show herself and her stupid human problems don't interest me. If I wanted to see relationship and school drama I'd watch a soap opera but I don't at all want to see that.

I just seriously want her to retire.

This episode itself wasn't bad. A nice mix of Alien and The Thing (which the dancing girl had on her holiday list). The Tweests of them still being asleep dragged a little bit by the end. I pretty much knew the slob guy was going to die from the get go when they said he felt a thigh and made pigs feeding from a trough seem pleasant compared to his chewing on some turkey.

More Danny......woo. I liked the character especially his comparison to the Doctor but quit cock-teasing bringing him back. Either do it (and make poor forgotten Orson exist again) or say he's dead Jim and leave it at that. They did more or less the same thing with Rory and it was bothersome then too.

Santa may not have existed but he was still the best damn part of this episode.

[Broomstick]

Although I haven't had a chance to see it yet, I'm somewhat relieved at these reviews. For some reason I was getting a Santa Claus vs. the Martians vibe off the previews, which was not good.

[Tychu]

Can it just be me dreaming somewhere out there or did this episode give us the deus ex machina we needed to "fix" last season?

What planet was The Doctor on? Maybe Season 8 was all a dream? Which would explain why things don't really make sense in any of the episodes. The Doctor did say dreams try to hide the mistakes or lack of information to protect itself

[The Romulan Republic]

Considering that the end seemed to all but state that the Doctor and Clara were still dreaming, its a pretty dark episode, especially for a Christmas special. It reminded me of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode "Normal Again". But it also reminded me of Inception and the work of Terry Pratchet.

[mr friendly guy]

At least Santa Claus was sort of explained as part of the Doctor's subconscious, so he was sort of saving the day. But yeah, its time for the Doctor to take centre stage and shine.

[Enigma]

I know that Moffatt had said that he'd like to see a female Doctor and that the Doctor can be a female. I wonder if pushing Clara to be more Doctor-like as a way to test the waters to see if the viewers would accept a female Doctor.

I had hoped that Jenna would not return next season. Her character Clara, when first introduced was fine, but then became shallow. The Doctor deeply cared for Clara, whether she was old or not, yet it took a lot of prodding to get Clara to accept an older looking Doctor. I wonder if the Doctor cares a lot for Clara because she was the first face he saw when he regenerated much like how Smith's Doctor cared a lot for Amy because she was the first face he saw.

Anyhoo, I knew Jenna would return because if she were to leave we'd be hearing rumors by now as to who would replace her. Now that we're stuck with her for another season, I hope she becomes less annoying.

As for the special, well... it was meh. Not that bad but not that good either. How the hell did the Doctor get face hugged while apparently on a different planet roughly at the same time as Clara?

[The Romulan Republic]

Clara's had a long run for a companion on Doctor Who, and there are things about her that are terribly generic. I also find her rather selfish and I hate her initial pseudo-romance with the Doctor. I want her and Moffat gone at this point.

[Minischoles]

Enjoyable episode but it was fairly obvious that ending was tagged on - according to rumour it was written as an exit for her (since she was dithering over doing another season) and the old Clara bit was written as a way of writing her off, then she changed her mind and they tagged on that last dream bit to keep her in

[DaveJB]

One of the better Christmas specials comparatively speaking, though it's rather sad that The Christmas Invasion is probably still the show's best Christmas special nine years later.

Going forward, I think what the show really needs is another Rory-type character to balance out the ensemble; not necessarily a love interest for Clara, or even a man, but someone to provide a more grounded contrast to the Doctor and Clara.

To compare to the classic series, Tegan was loud and bossy, but she worked because she was playing off against the calm-but-stern Fifth Doctor and the placid Nyssa (we'll politely ignore Adric), whereas a hypothetical Sixth Doctor/Tegan ensemble would have been completely insufferable.

[The Romulan Republic]

Danny reminds me of Rory. I think he could have done what you're talking about more if they'd made him a companion.

[LadyTevar]

Why not just throw Capt Jack back into the mix, hmm?

[FaxModem1]

He's too busy being Malcolm Merlyn on Arrow.

This episode was enjoyable, which is a first in a long time for me on Doctor Who, due to the rapid stupidity their writing has had for the past season.

[Joun_Lord]

No on Cap'n Jack. They need to bring someone new in, not a rehashed or reused older character and certainly not some attractive 20 something modern earth girl.

Have a new companion for a new dynamic. I'd love a former villain to show up to ride in the Tardis, preferably one that the Doctor reviles. Something outlandish like a Dalek or Cyberman (or woman probably, are there even female Daleks?). Someone that the Doctor needs to.........Doctor, a good person waiting to come out of their shell though the shell is body armor.

Could even have the "I luvs the Doc" subplot to explore for the shippers but actually do something with it, this is a seriously messed up individual getting goo-goo eyes for the Doctor, struggling with emotions and feelings for lack of a better word alien to it. Doesn't conform to the human standard of beauty (but can wear a holo projector to do so to save on the costume budget and to not have an alien monster trotting around modern day London getting some coffee) causing more friction as even if there are feelings between the two its kinda hard to hump a giant pepper shaker or Iron Man knock-off.

But whatever they do they need to not let the damn companion overshadow the Doc, the companion can do shit and be the lead in some episodes but generally the Doctor is the lead atleast until this most recent season.

I fear however they probably won't change up the companion, would probably change the Doctor before hand. I have this mental image of Clara completely taking over the show with either the Doctor gone or changed to the PC Doctor and now pretty much a shitty comedy side character.

[Enigma]

We kinda had a Cyberman for a little bit. Handles, remember?

[Joun_Lord]

Yeah but he was only one off and didn't do much except lay about and make you feel feels for a robot head. But someone like him, with a body and fleshy bits still intact would be pretty awesome.

[Parallax]

I'd support a Sontaron companion.
One who isn't a joke.

[The Romulan Republic]

No on Cap'n Jack. They need to bring someone new in, not a rehashed or reused older character and certainly not some attractive 20 something modern earth girl.

Have a new companion for a new dynamic. I'd love a former villain to show up to ride in the Tardis, preferably one that the Doctor reviles. Something outlandish like a Dalek or Cyberman (or woman probably, are there even female Daleks?). Someone that the Doctor needs to.........Doctor, a good person waiting to come out of their shell though the shell is body armor.

Could even have the "I luvs the Doc" subplot to explore for the shippers but actually do something with it, this is a seriously messed up individual getting goo-goo eyes for the Doctor, struggling with emotions and feelings for lack of a better word alien to it. Doesn't conform to the human standard of beauty (but can wear a holo projector to do so to save on the costume budget and to not have an alien monster trotting around modern day London getting some coffee) causing more friction as even if there are feelings between the two its kinda hard to hump a giant pepper shaker or Iron Man knock-off.

But whatever they do they need to not let the damn companion overshadow the Doc, the companion can do shit and be the lead in some episodes but generally the Doctor is the lead atleast until this most recent season.

I fear however they probably won't change up the companion, would probably change the Doctor before hand. I have this mental image of Clara completely taking over the show with either the Doctor gone or changed to the PC Doctor and now pretty much a shitty comedy side character.

Can you please stop using the term PC Doctor? I'm guessing that you're referring to the possibility of either a minority or female Doctor, and defining that as PC Doctor implies that a woman or minority could never get the part based on merit, which is, of course, sexist and racist.

Anyway, if I know Moffat, there's a fair chance that the seeming happy reunion of the Doctor and Clara is set up to make a tragic tearjerker ending all the more painful.

Edit: I too would like an alien companion.

[Joun_Lord]

I refer to the PC Doctor as a woman or a minority who gets the part solely for being a woman or a minority.

I've got no problem with a minority Doctor (Idris Elba I think would make an excellent Doc but then I think I have a slight man-crush on him so I'm a bit biased, he's just an awesome actor, even made the little bit he was in Ghost Rider 2 rocking a P90 awesome) or a female one, I however have a problem with the Doc being played by a female or minority just to have a female or minority play him (her, whatever) so as to check some PC checklist or to show how progressive the show is like the numbnuts who voted for Obama solely because he was black (rather then because he was arguably the least terrible choice but thats neither here nor there, not even over there in that corner with that thing).

The person to play the Doctor should be the best actor or actress available, white, black, male, female, Scottish, English, even American (okay maybe not American, that is taking things a bit too far). Not the "Black Doctor" or the "Female Doctor" but a Doctor who happens to be played by a minority or female.

I'm pretty much saying I want the opposite of racism or sexism, I want the Doctor's actor or actress hired solely on merit and not skin color or location of their sex organs.

[mr friendly guy]

I wouldn't mind Idris Elba as the Doctor. I liked him since he was on the British Vampire show Ultraviolet.

I remember a few years ago on Outpost Gallifrey people were discussing whether a non white actor should play the Doctor if they are good enough. This was confronted by strawmen about giving the role to a person purely by race (which was hilarious).

The other arguments were that TL couldn't regenerate into different "races" which was countered all the way back to the Patrick Troughton story "War Games" where the Time Lords offer the Doctor various bodies he can regenerate into including a black man's. The counterargument was that "naturally" the Doctor would tend not to do that. Of course in the EU we see Time Lords regenerate into Black bodies, but they didn't like the EU.

I wonder how they would respond now to seeing the fact that a female Time Lady can regenerate from a black woman to a white woman in "Lets kill Hitler." I wonder if they will say it only works one way and not the other way round.

[Broomstick]

I'd support a Sontaron companion.
One who isn't a joke.

My theory is that Strax suffered some sort of brain damage by being killed at Demon's Run and revived. It would explain a lot.

[The Romulan Republic]

I refer to the PC Doctor as a woman or a minority who gets the part solely for being a woman or a minority.

I've got no problem with a minority Doctor (Idris Elba I think would make an excellent Doc but then I think I have a slight man-crush on him so I'm a bit biased, he's just an awesome actor, even made the little bit he was in Ghost Rider 2 rocking a P90 awesome) or a female one, I however have a problem with the Doc being played by a female or minority just to have a female or minority play him (her, whatever) so as to check some PC checklist or to show how progressive the show is like the numbnuts who voted for Obama solely because he was black (rather then because he was arguably the least terrible choice but thats neither here nor there, not even over there in that corner with that thing).

The person to play the Doctor should be the best actor or actress available, white, black, male, female, Scottish, English, even American (okay maybe not American, that is taking things a bit too far). Not the "Black Doctor" or the "Female Doctor" but a Doctor who happens to be played by a minority or female.

I'm pretty much saying I want the opposite of racism or sexism, I want the Doctor's actor or actress hired solely on merit and not skin color or location of their sex organs.

I think it would be interesting to have a minority and/or female Doctor and there's no reason it can't happen given how regenerations supposedly work. But obviously the part should go to an excellent actor, not merely one who happens to not be a white male. But I don't mind if they specifically choose a woman or minority if its a choice between two or more comparably good actors. And I'm pretty confident they will cast someone good. I'm not sure their's ever been a really badly acted Doctor.

[The Romulan Republic]

I wouldn't mind Idris Elba as the Doctor. I liked him since he was on the British Vampire show Ultraviolet.

I remember a few years ago on Outpost Gallifrey people were discussing whether a non white actor should play the Doctor if they are good enough. This was confronted by strawmen about giving the role to a person purely by race (which was hilarious).

The other arguments were that TL couldn't regenerate into different "races" which was countered all the way back to the Patrick Troughton story "War Games" where the Time Lords offer the Doctor various bodies he can regenerate into including a black man's. The counterargument was that "naturally" the Doctor would tend not to do that. Of course in the EU we see Time Lords regenerate into Black bodies, but they didn't like the EU.

I wonder how they would respond now to seeing the fact that a female Time Lady can regenerate from a black woman to a white woman in "Lets kill Hitler." I wonder if they will say it only works one way and not the other way round.

Its been shown repeatedly that people can change their race and sex when they regenerate (for whatever continuity is worth in Doctor Who). Its not even an argument at this point unless you just disregard what's on screen.