Doctor Who S34E11: "Dark Water" *Spoilers*

[Crazedwraith]

Well lots of people called that one then.

And I was thinking that place reminded me of the Tomb Of The Cybermen. At least its not Daleks I guess.

[Bedlam]

The skeletons / Cybermen thing actually caught me by surprise despite being obvious when you think about it.

So Danny when to Sigil when he died? I guess he is true neutral then.

More the invasion than the Tomb given their walking around in London.

The Master / Mistress / Missy thing was so weird, I can't decide if its genius or terrible.

[The Romulan Republic]

Female Master? Part of me wishes I hadn't just read that spoiler, but part of me is intrigued. Anyway, I wonder if this is a way to test the waters for a female Doctor next time he regenerates.

[Captain Seafort]

The Master / Mistress / Missy thing was so weird, I can't decide if its genius or terrible.

It caught me by surprise - I was expecting Romana.

Also: "Government inspection. But why is there so much swearing?"

[The Romulan Republic]

Why would you expect that? When was Romana a villain?

[NecronLord]

Reminded me of Torchwood's Miracle Day arc.

[Sharp-kun]

I was expecting the Rani.

[Bedlam]

The Master / Mistress / Missy thing was so weird, I can't decide if its genius or terrible.

It caught me by surprise - I was expecting Romana.

Also: "Government inspection. But why is there so much swearing?"

Yeah, I think they hinted at Romana when they said that he'd left her behind, not entirely sure how that's supposed to fit with what we last saw of the Master but well... crazy.

[Captain Seafort]

Why would you expect that? When was Romana a villain?

She's one of only two Time Ladies with multiple appearances (and therefore likely to be brought back), and Missy described herself to the Doctor as "the one you abandoned". Given that we've never seen any prior evidence that regenerations can lead to a change of gender I was convinced it would be either Romana or the Rani, and the evident bitterness about abandonment pointed more to the former than the latter.

[Starglider]

I guessed the Rani as well, but the current writing team are not that imaginative, preferring to drag out a well-known villain. I was kind of hoping that it wouldn't be grimdark Romana, because I like that character and don't want to see her grossly mischaracterised and generally screwed over.

I imagine the skeletons will be another cool visual image that makes absolutely no logical, story or scientific sense (why bother to put inert fragile bone into otherwise entirely robotic cybermen).

[SpottedKitty]

Given that we've never seen any prior evidence that regenerations can lead to a change of gender

Remember "The Doctor's Wife" — the Time Lord who sent the distress message right at the beginning was The Corsair, an old friend of the Doctor, and he described him as "a very bad boy... or girl, as the case may be".

[Eternal_Freedom]

Right up until that last line I was hoping it wasn't the Master. Because the last time the Doctor saw him, he didn't abandon him or leave him for dead...the Master was venting his rage at Rassilon (or the Lord President if you prefer) and being sucked back into the Time War. Hardly "abandoned" or "left for dead."

I thought it would be Romana, but the voluntarily stayed in E-Space. I thought for a few minutes it would be Susan, since he really did abandon her, forcing her to stay on a devastated future Earth with David than continue traveling with him. He said he would return and he never did.

[Crazedwraith]

Right up until that last line I was hoping it wasn't the Master. Because the last time the Doctor saw him, he didn't abandon him or leave him for dead...the Master was venting his rage at Rassilon (or the Lord President if you prefer) and being sucked back into the Time War. Hardly "abandoned" or "left for dead."

There's always the faint possibility of time-wimey-wibbley-wobbly. The last time the Master appeared on the show doesn't necessarily have to be the event he's referring to.

Alternatively, it's a self-serving lie. Hardly out of character for a villian.

[Eternal_Freedom]

True.

Also, as of this I really don't like Clara. She loses someone she loves, and despite everything the Doctor has said about history and not fucking with it (not to mention the paradoxes) she decides to resort to attacking the Doctor and blackmailing him to change history. And he fucking gave in.

Argh. I'm starting to wonder if the Doctor hasn't got Stockholm syndrome after being stuck with her since he regenerated.

[NecronLord]

I guessed the Rani as well, but the current writing team are not that imaginative, preferring to drag out a well-known villain. I was kind of hoping that it wouldn't be grimdark Romana, because I like that character and don't want to see her grossly mischaracterised and generally screwed over.

I imagine the skeletons will be another cool visual image that makes absolutely no logical, story or scientific sense (why bother to put inert fragile bone into otherwise entirely robotic cybermen).

Well, for the original verse cybermen, and these are supposedly (if Gaiman's word counts) meant to be them, are in fact, human, under it all.

The first ones even still had human hands, and when cyberconversion in the old show was seen, there was still quite a lot of human/mondasian under there.

[Crazedwraith]

True.

Also, as of this I really don't like Clara. She loses someone she loves, and despite everything the Doctor has said about history and not fucking with it (not to mention the paradoxes) she decides to resort to attacking the Doctor and blackmailing him to change history. And he fucking gave in.

Argh. I'm starting to wonder if the Doctor hasn't got Stockholm syndrome after being stuck with her since he regenerated.

I've often disliked Clara and the start of the episode was just bizarre to me. On the other hand Clara was pretty obviously in shock over the death, and I do like the idea she would immediately turn to the Doctor to fix it and try and strong arm him into doing so. The execution perhaps not. They could easily turned into something like Father's Day with Clara dealing with actual loss the Doctor can't fix.

However, did the Doctor really give in though? He agreed to help but only by trying to find the afterlife Danny ended up in. Not to cause universe breaking paradoxes for her.

That whole sequence with the keys though. I'm glad it was a dream. Did they ever establish having the key was so important before? I mean Eleven at least could open the TARDIS just by snapping his fingers. And the thing's partial sentient, would it have just locked them out to die?

[Eternal_Freedom]

I doubt the TARDIS would let them die. Besides, there's a spare key in a cubbyhole above the door.

I can't be sure without rewatching, but I'm fairly certain the Doctor wasn't just taking her to the afterlife, he said "we'll bring him back" or something similar.

[Batman]

Rule number one: the Doctor lies. He 'said' that. Doesn't mean he ever actually intended to.

[FaxModem1]

I was seriously thinking the Rani. She hasn't been used since the 1980s, and would be a great return. Instead, she's either lying, or Moffat is now trying out having a transgendered villain. Considering Missy's boyfriend remarks earlier in the season, this puts their interactions during End of Time in a whole new light.

[mr friendly guy]

I think people joked that Moffat would make the Master female. I guessed the jokes on us now.

[DaveJB]

I guessed the Rani as well, but the current writing team are not that imaginative, preferring to drag out a well-known villain.

For what it's worth, Missy's actions actually are more consistent with those of the Master than the Rani. The Rani tended to be a major annoyance for the Doctor, but she was always trying to accomplish some higher goal in her scientific experiments, and just didn't give a damn who got hurt in the process (disregarding the clusterfuck that was Dimensions in Time for the moment). On the other hand, causing mass chaos solely for the purpose of being a dick toward the Doctor has been the Master's MO since all the way back in his first appearance, where he tried to facilitate a Nestene invasion of Earth.

[HMS Sophia]

or Moffat is now trying out having a transgendered villain.

I really, really hope that either Missy basically doesn't reference the swap, or they treat it as something normal for Time Lords/Ladies. I really don't want that man to have a crack at a trans villain. As if we didn't have enough shitty stereotypes in the media.

I actually quite enjoyed the episode. It was almost entirely telegraphed, but it was still fun. The end was a bit abrupt though.

[ray245]

Woot! I've told everyone that Missy is the Master ever since the first episode. I'm surprised no one else figured it out.

[Crazedwraith]

Er... yeah. Like I said, I've seen that theory all over the place. You're not some lone visionary there.

[PREDATOR490]

3 / 5

-1 = I just hate Clara that much
-1 = Mistress / Cybermen

Missy - I'm willing to give this shift the benefit of the doubt since it is a bit of a new direction but I REALLY, REALLY did not like the way they decided to play this. If you want a female master... fair enough but the sexual attraction is going to get really old if that is all they have to offer with the new shift. I'm worried someone saw that Comic Relief Doctor Who Skit and decided to run with it as a serious thing. I suppose it is a saving grace they didn't decide to make Missy fit the 'young' female companion category.
However, that said I am really impressed with the actress they have for Missy but Doctor Who has made an extreme habit of taking a good premise and beating it to death. I do not see Missy being a very good recurring villain since the Master was always better in small doses.

Cybermen - Well done for not re-using the same Cybusmen look but it seems they just decided to go with Missy Men. I find it rather amusing that the Cybermen are consistently the only ones that really launch these kinds of attacks on Earth and yet... Earth remains oblivious because they 'forget'.
I wonder if Missy controlling the Cybermen is a callback to The Next Doctor with the woman's mind being strong enough to overpower the Cybermen or are they going for a Mistress with a legion of Men at her command.

Overall, this episode was pretty much all build up to the reveal of Missy and it relegated the Doctor to being a bit of an idiot to make it work. As always, Doctor Who likes to do big build ups... but often goes to shit when they try to wrap things up. Will they actually get around to explaining how the Master came back or showing some real fallout from ANOTHER Cybermen attack on the world ?