[Doctor Who] S33E13 The Name of the Doctor [SPOILERS]

[Lord_Of_Change 9]

UK showing just ended. What did you think of this episode?

[Atlan]

Would have been absolutely amazing if River Song hadn't been included as Exposition Lady.

[Flakin]

Would have been absolutely amazing if River Song hadn't been included as Exposition Lady.

At least that seems to be her final appearance.

[The Xeelee]

Why did they have to name the doctor Stephen!!!

[Eternal_Freedom]

That was pretty damn good. Only sad part was the absence of Paul McGann's Doctor who any of the flash back/memory sequences. Aside from that however those sequences were very well done indeed.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I liked how the Doctor saying "On my good days, and bad" while explaining his past incarnations prancing about, had the "bad" said as McGann waltzed off screen.

[Parallax]

That looks more like the 4th to me, since that tall, coated figure was wearing a wide brimmed hat.

Anyhow, just that one sentence at the end ... I hope to sweet dear baby zombie jesus that they make full episodes with John Hurt as the Doctor.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Anyhow, just that one sentence at the end ... I hope to sweet dear baby zombie jesus that they make full episodes with John Hurt as the Doctor.

Now, I hadn't even considered that....but goddamn that woudl be amazing!

[Lost Soal]

That was pretty damn good. Only sad part was the absence of Paul McGann's Doctor who any of the flash back/memory sequences. Aside from that however those sequences were very well done indeed.

He was the one running across the field. Since McGann never filmed any scenes and has no episodes you don't get a good look at the face

[DarkSilver]

I actually really really liked it.

End of River Song's meddling, the Whisper Men were interesting since they seemed to be creations of the Great Intelligence - how Clara became the Impossible Girl.

The Prophecy came true - the 11th did fall at Trenzalore. His fall wasn't his death - but the fact that he failed utterly and completely. He couldn't stop the Great Intelligence, and it took Clara interfering with his entire timeline to restore it.

The recut scenes which added Semian and Clara were well done - and it makes better sense in Hurt's interview that he said he'd be playing a version of the Doctor - he's the 9th Regeneration, but he's not the 9th Doctor. More than likely, Hurt is the Regeneration which fought the Time War, and used the Moment to end it.

[Vaporous]

They really have no idea whether they want to portray the Doctor ending the Time War the way he did positively or negatively, huh.First it was just tragic, and the time Lords get swallowed up because he has no other choice. He's wracked with guilt about it.Then we find out that Timothy Dalton was about to commit omnicide "in the final days of the war", so destroying the Time Lords is less a tragic necessity and more just necessity. Now the brand new incarnation that fought and ended the war is the leper "No True Doctor" version of the Doctor who doesn't count, despite the fact that Tennat's Doctor points out that it had to be done and still supports the decision he made.

Did they really need Eccleston so much that this is all they had left to fall back on?

[Iroscato]

They really have no idea whether they want to portray the Doctor ending the Time War the way he did positively or negatively, huh.First it was just tragic, and the time Lords get swallowed up because he has no other choice. He's wracked with guilt about it.Then we find out that Timothy Dalton was about to commit omnicide "in the final days of the war", so destroying the Time Lords is less a tragic necessity and more just necessity. Now the brand new incarnation that fought and ended the war is the leper "No True Doctor" version of the Doctor who doesn't count, despite the fact that Tennat's Doctor points out that it had to be done and still supports the decision he made.
Did they really need Eccleston so much that this is all they had left to fall back on?

Long-winded theory ahoy!
Well, this could be explained by the fact that every incarnation of the Doctor is in effect a different man. Kind of. Sorta. Ish. So they would each have different opinions about things.
Another way of explaining it is Ten was still pretty raw from the time war. By my reckoning, Ecclestone's Doctor started off literally moments before the episode Rose (looks in the mirror during the episode, says "hmm, not bad, could be worse". That was the first time Nine had seen his new face), and was 900 years old when he regenerated again. Tennant's Doctor was about 906 by the time he regenerated, so just 6 years had passed for him since the Time War.
Smith's Doctor, however, is apparently now around 1000 years old. He's had the better part of a century to think about what happened and change his opinions, in effect the dust has settled.

In regards to the episode, it was brilliant, although suffered like every other one of the series by being too short and too rushed. This was crying for a two-parter, a format which I really hope they return to next series.

[Parallax]

Well, this could be explained by the fact that every incarnation of the Doctor is in effect a different man. Kind of. Sorta. Ish. So they would each have different opinions about things.

This is pretty much a given, considering what we've seen over the loooooong run of the show. Look at the completely contrasting personalities of the 1st and 2nd Doctors as a quick example.
The first Doctor started off being an arrogant snot (still awesome, however) who had no problem braining cavemen with rocks should the need arise. Huge difference between the 4th and 5th whilst the 7th went from silly git at the start to dark manipulator by the end.
It's not surprising, since regeneration would cause massive chemical/hormonal changes in every part of his body and that's surely going to mess with your thinking processes and perspectives. You may still hold those core principles dear but how you retain and protect them can be vastly, vastly different.

[Batman]

Good, but not great. As others have said, it was rushed. Clara's role as the Impossible Girl could've used some closer examination given this was the first time we saw her in the lives of previous Doctors as opposed to simply being someone who merely died twice over as completely different persons. I agree a two-parter would have been in order.
And is it just me watching this late at night (or early in the morning depending on your point of view) or did we see neither Tennant nor Eccleston in the flashback sequences? I know they had Eccleston's 'You're fantastic' audio but I don't think he was ever on screen.

[Soontir C'boath]

Did Clara really needed to be the one to guide the first Doctor to the right TARDIS? I thought it was the TARDIS itself that beckoned him to her as stated in the "The Doctor's Wife"....

[Parallax]

Possibly, since it seems likely that one of the key moments in the Doctor's life was sabotaged by the GI - maybe the GI silenced the TARDIS somehow and Clara fixed that by pointing out the one the Doctor should take.

Of course, if there's anything in the Universe that should be a fixed point in time (and thus pretty freaking unchangeable) is chunks of the Doctor's life ... but let's not think about that.

[mr friendly guy]

I am giving this one a 1 and unlike the others who rated previous episodes low and apparently never showed up to explain why, I will.

Lets start with

a. Another DW episode where some Mary Sue shows up the Doctor, er I mean save him - we had Donna Doctor in RTD's run, we had River Song, and another episode where Clara saves the day. Did the Doctor actually do much in this episode except to explain things? If this a celebration of the Doctor, why the hell are we seeing Mary Sues save the day.

b. More River Song. To top it off she allowed the GI to enter the tomb by saying the magic word, while trying to talk Clara out of fixing the problem she helped cause in the first place. Are the writers even trying anymore?

c. The GI getting the better of the Doctor just with a bunch of henchmen, albeit creepy looking ones. Come on. In the old days Troughton's Doctor would engage in telepathic combat with the intelligence, albeit some of those episodes had already been lost. Its now, hey I will kill your companions, and all you can do is say please, please. Then I realise. Its not about showing the Doctor doing something clever to save the day, its about a Mary Sue creation saving the Doctor mostly.


The episode had some moments - Strax was funny and the mystery of John Hurt as the unknown Doctor (which could still turn out to be crap, but I will wait and see what happens). So that is why I didn't give it a 0.

[mr friendly guy]

To elaborate further, DW and companion interactions to defeat the bad guys work the best when its a "team effort." So you see Ian Chesterton's brawn complementing the First Doctor's brain, Sarah Jane Smith managing to turn off the plant mulcher machine about to kill the Doctor in the Seeds of Doom, Jo Grant confusing the Daemon in the Daemons etc, but the Doctor tends to do the most.

To me these nuWho episodes relegate the Doctor to almost becoming the equivalent of the stereotypical Damsel in distress while the Mary Sue companions save him.

[Surlethe]

Of course, if there's anything in the Universe that should be a fixed point in time (and thus pretty freaking unchangeable) is chunks of the Doctor's life ... but let's not think about that.

I thought "Waters of Mars" pretty amply demonstrated that since the Time War, there are no more fixed points in time.

[Parallax]

Pretty sure there are and Waters of Mars showed that when people try to change fixed points, time fights back and stuff happens more or less on track anyhow.
For example, the woman was never meant to survive the turmoil on Mars, so even despite the Doctor's best efforts, she ends up dying (just slightly later and by her own hand).

[Stark]

Man, all the stupid shit they made up about 'fixed points' is even worse when you realise at least initially they were talking about self-made paradoxes and typical time travel things to avoid. Perfectly viable demonstration from first season totally ignored so they could plot-up contrived nonsense whenever? Not in Doctor Who!

[Broomstick]

They really have no idea whether they want to portray the Doctor ending the Time War the way he did positively or negatively, huh.First it was just tragic, and the time Lords get swallowed up because he has no other choice. He's wracked with guilt about it.Then we find out that Timothy Dalton was about to commit omnicide "in the final days of the war", so destroying the Time Lords is less a tragic necessity and more just necessity. Now the brand new incarnation that fought and ended the war is the leper "No True Doctor" version of the Doctor who doesn't count, despite the fact that Tennat's Doctor points out that it had to be done and still supports the decision he made.

Um... war is sort of like that, isn't it? I could throw up a number of real life instances in war where terrible, terrible things were done in the name of preventing other terrible, terrible things and where victory left ambivalent feelings. I don't care how necessary certain things are, they're still tragic. Even if, in the end, they lead to a better world they're still tragic.

I could see a "version of the Doctor" performing actions he felt were necessary but leave him regretful and full of remorse, guilt, and other negative emotions.

[Gandalf]

If it turns out that Hurt Doctor is in fact the one who ended the Time War, how the hell else can they explore that, aside from deciding to just show it on screen? Though it did look as though Hurt was in the Ninth Doctor's gear.

You know who would have been great to show up for that exposition? Mickey Smith. Because.

[Starglider]

Another case of good setup but sentimental and contrived ending. If Clara had just sacrificed herself and died, no rescue, end of story, it would have been a much better episode. Still, not a bad episode overall.

[LadyTevar]

They really have no idea whether they want to portray the Doctor ending the Time War the way he did positively or negatively, huh.First it was just tragic, and the time Lords get swallowed up because he has no other choice. He's wracked with guilt about it.Then we find out that Timothy Dalton was about to commit omnicide "in the final days of the war", so destroying the Time Lords is less a tragic necessity and more just necessity. Now the brand new incarnation that fought and ended the war is the leper "No True Doctor" version of the Doctor who doesn't count, despite the fact that Tennat's Doctor points out that it had to be done and still supports the decision he made.

Um... war is sort of like that, isn't it? I could throw up a number of real life instances in war where terrible, terrible things were done in the name of preventing other terrible, terrible things and where victory left ambivalent feelings. I don't care how necessary certain things are, they're still tragic. Even if, in the end, they lead to a better world they're still tragic.

I could see a "version of the Doctor" performing actions he felt were necessary but leave him regretful and full of remorse, guilt, and other negative emotions.

Eccleson's Doctor was raw with PostTraumatic, there was never any doubts about this. His confrontations with the Daleks made me wonder who he hated more, them or himself for what happened in the war. It wasn't until he was Rose's Doctor that he started healing.