Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisited)

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Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisited)

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Well this marks the salving of my Imperial Guard fanboyism by a return to the 'big three' novels for Guard: CIaphas Cain, Gaunt's Ghosts, and the IG series I decided to start with Cain.

I've posted the first two novels of course, way back in the distant mists of time when I was much more innocent and took this shit alot more seirously :P At the time only 4 novels total had been written plus a handful of Short stories from anthologies. As of this, there are a total of nine novels and a shitload more short stories. Which is quite an achievement.

Ciaphas cain is an interesting series. While there are story elements I like personally, you really don't read it for the plot, becuase the plots are (usually) simple and somewhat repetitive (as is the language), Cain himself is not exactly a consistently deep or complex person (although that isn't wholly true, we see him evolve over the series - its just that the accounts are so scattered across time and space that its hard to follow.) What makes Ciaphas Cain stand out (and me enjoy it) is that its quite literally 40K from its silly 'take itself less seriously' roots. I've heard people say its 'light' 40K because its not grimdark... tahts not true. Its that it doesnt take itself seriously with the grimdark and it doesn't cram it into your face. I'll discuss that over the course of the series, but its distinctive in the tone and approach much like the Ghosts series itself is, and that is what makes it remarkable. Far too much of 40K grimdark is grimdark because it is unintentionally silly when it tries to be serious.

I also happen to like Cain as a character because trying to figure out if he's seriously a coward, deliberately self-deprecating, a bit of both, or something else is rather fascinating. He presents one of the more human figures in 40K, and an interesting look into the mindset of a Commissar we rarely get. So often we see them from the outside, but we rarely see them from the inside, and the idea that behind all the bravado and training and indoctrination they are human makes them.. better people I think. The ability to overcome the basic human failings and become something inspirational or heroic (or even figures of terror) is amazing, because they represent the best of the Imperial Guard and thus the best of humanity. They don't have superhuman implants and genetic engineering like Space Marines, after all.

Of ocurse, I'm talking about the 'old sstyle' commissars like from 2nd, the 'lead from the front and be inspirational figures' approach, which is definitely the archetype cain is cut from, rather than the SUMMARY EXECUTION type which is what people usually think of (GRIMDARK). Maybe its that defiance of Grimdark consistently that appeals to me. :P


Page 11
Ciaphas Cain, "To Serve the Emperor: A Commissar's Life" 104. M42
This would seem to suggest Cain lived to some time in 104.M42 (or at leats close enough that his memoirs got published) but this is up to debate I suppose. either way if so it would suggest he lived at least 150-175 years or so.


Page 11
The total population of the colony was just a few hundred thousand, including elders and kids; just a village really by Imperial standards.
Cain considers a population of a 'few hundred thousand' to be relatively trivial by Imperial standards. This tends to suggest most worlds are millions or billions.


PAge 13
Imperial Guard commanders tended to distrust the political officers assigned to them, often with good reason. Most of the time, about all you could hope for was to develop a tolerable working relationship and try not to tread on one another's toes too much. That worked for me; even back then I realised commissars who threw their weight around tended to end up dying heroically for the Emperor, even if the enemy was a suspiciously long way away at the time
Cain comments on the Commissar/Officer relationship, which actually seems better than 'shoot people randomly and terrorize', but hardly ideal. It's got enough room (at least) for respect to develop as we've seen from a number of sources. Cain's comments about fragging commissars tends to suggest that self-preservation (if nothing else) would dictate most non-idiot Commissars would take a lower-key role in matters rather than blindly trust to their own authority. Apparently not only Deathworlders will frag them, either.


Page 14
"We've never had a commissar assigned to us before."

..
"Probably because you don't seem to need one. Your unit records are exemplary. "
Valhallan being one of the 'named' regiments, like Cadians or Krieg, probably explains this. Valhallans are reliable enough to generally not require Commissars (which doesn't mean one won't be assigned.) WE saw this with the CAdians in 'Cadian Blood' too, and of course the Krieg don't NEED Commissars for discipline but for restraint, so they fall into the extreme opposite end of the spectrum :P


Page 15
The truth was, of course, that despite what you've seen in the holos, charismatic commissars loved and respected by the men they lead are about as common as ork ballerinas; and being thought of as a soft touch who's infinitely preferable to any possible replacement is almost as good when it comes to making sure someone's watching your back in a firefight.
Essentially true. I would note, however, that most commissars are ot meant to be 'charismatic' or 'loved' per se. Respected but feared seems more common, and inspiration. Again it still reflects that 'terorrizing everyone at the drop of the hat' as the propoganda shit suggests is far from being common.


Page 16
He pointed at the hololithic display
An example of RARE AND PRECIOUS TECHNOLOGY, excpet not so rare.


Page 16
A fleet of starships, over a thousand strong was curving in towards the Desolatia system.
Which makes it one of the larger fleets in 40K fiction, although a smaller fraction may be warships.




Page 17
"Keffia might have been infested by genestealers."
...
Everyone knew what that meant. A long, bloody campaign to cleanse the world metre by metre. Virus bombing from orbit was the option of last resort on an agriworld, which would cease to be of any value to the lmperium if its ecosystem was destroyed.
Virus bombing but not necesarily exterminatus per se. The planet could be technically habitable (even if in the definition of a hive world) but it would be useless as an agri-world. This tends to help reinforce the idea that blasting them from orbit is preferrably to ground conflict, but necessity (or politics) may require ground forces. Bear in mind that this is not neccesarily LESS destructive - at least in the long term. (Vraks, anyone?)



Page 17-18
"How close is the fleet?"
...
"A day, maybe two."
...
"The astropaths at regimental HQ lost contact with them last night."
...
"With the entire fleet?"
...

There's very little which can cast a shadow in the warp so powerful that it can cut off communication with an entire battle fleet, and none of them are anything I want to be within a dozen subsectors of.
This could either suggest near-realtime communication (or at least over minutes or hours lag, since losing it in a single night was cause for concern.) The fact that the hive fleet is seemingly popping in some distance away suggests the fleet is still some light years away. at least 2 ly in 1-2 days would be hundreds of c, which is certainly consistent with 'in sector' travle speeds.

Alternately we could figure that astropathic signals are generally an order of magnitude faster than warp speeds :P

Also, the 1000 ship fleet descrbied as a 'battlefleet', which may suggest this sector has a rathre large warp capable starship contingent (not all warships, mind.)


Page 18
"'Put the whole battery on full alert. Especially the Hydras. "
..
"And get every air defence auspex you can on line."
Hydras and air defense sensors.



Page 18
I was in the command post, talking to the captain of an ore barge which had made orbit that morning...
..
"We're the only thing in orbit, commissar.."
..
"You weren't due for another week."
..
"We were lucky. The warp currents were suonger than usual."
Which suggests the ore barge could cross the in-system distance in less than a week. Possibly less than a day. A week or less isn't much calcable as it would be less than 1% of c, and probalby isnt a constnat burn (unless its fractional-second.)



Page 18
"We're detecting warp portals. Dozens of them!"
..
"The auspex signatures are all wrong. Not like ships at all..."
"Bioships," I said. "No metal in the hulls."
Tyranids use warp int his case. Not only that, but they apparently come out of the warp close to the planet (within a light second or two, at least, given the seemingly near-realtime detection ranges.)


Page 18-19
..there wasn't much that could cast a shadow in the warp that big and with genestealers running rampant a couple of systems away..
Again suggesting the shadow is fairly sizable (light years again.) and the distance to Keffia. Pity we dont know the time.


PAge 19
Outside, the staccato drumbeats of the Hydras opened up, seeking the first mycetic spores to breach the atmosphere. Red dots began to blossom on the hololith, marking the first beachheads.
Depending on where you define the edge of the atmosphere, it could be 11-17 km (Assuming you define the edge by concentration of atmosphere.. more than three quarters (or four fifths, depending on your source). If you go by this source you get even more specific.. constant density only goes up to 8 km, there is the 11 km 'armstrong limit', 31 km is where the bulk of the atmosphere (99%) exists to maybe ~50 km or so (edge of the stratosphere)... all the way up to 100-120 km (Karman line/limit where reentry effects become noticable.) ~10 km would be consistent with the FFG materials or other anti-aircraft weapons with HE shells, but its definitely possible to argue at least several tens of km range. I kinda doubt it would be over (or even close) to 100 km though :P


Page 19
"One of the splinter fleets from Macragge."

The segmentum was full of them, fallout from the Ultramarines' heroic victory over Hive Fleet Behemoth almost a decade before.
...
..indicated the data coming in from the ore barge's navigational auspex. "Less than a hundred ships."
Size of the splinter fleet. Considered 'small' by hive fleet standards, but still dangeorus.


PAge 19
Most of the regimental sensor net had been directed downwards, towards the planet's surface.
the Valhallan artillery regiment had a sensor network in orbit. Satellite coverage is useful.


PAge 20
"I'm sure you haven't forgotten we have a quarter of a million civilians silting right next to the landing field."
...
"Will one barge be enough?"
..
"Have to be."
...
"It'll be cramped and uncomfortable for sure, but it beats ending up as Hormagaunt munchies."
..
"Even with every shuttle they can lay their hands on, it's going to take at least a day to get everyone aboard."
The ore barge is large enough to carry a quarter million people, albeit crowded. At least a day to load them.


Page 22
"Gargoyles!" I shoulted..
..
..a bioplasma attack. I leapt aside just quickly enough to avoid a seething bolt of primal matter vomited up by a winged horror swooping in my direction. I felt the heat on my face as it went past, detonating a few yards away and setting fire to a tent.

Without thinking I drew my chainsword, thumbed the selector to full speed..
..

Erhlsen was kneeling tracking it with the barrel of his lasgun, leisurely, as if he was at a recreational target shoot. I threw myself flat, just as he squeezed the trigger, and the thing's head exploded.
Tyranid Gargoyles appear. Interesting that they discharge bioplasma (I dont remember if they can do that or not) and it actually seems to be thermal. Cain's chainsword is variable speed.

Also single lasgun shot explodes Gargoyle skull. Gargoyles mass 200 kilos by IA4, so we might figure gargoyle heads are much denser/heavier than human skulls (and tougher). Single digit kj to double digit kj might crack the skull of a human, call it double digit kj for a Gargoyle (but probably not hitting the carapace. Figure he's aiming for a weak point.)



PAge 24-25
The compound was in sight now, ant-like troopers lining the fortifications, and, Emperor be praised, the Hydras rumbling into position to defend them, their quad-barrelled autocannon turrets depressing to face the oncoming tide of death.
..
The Hydras opened up, shooting past us, gouging holes in the onrushing wall of chittering death, but barely slowing it. Lasgun bolts began following suit; although the small arms fire would only be marginally effective at this range, every little helped.
If we go by the 'ground attack' range of Hydras from Honour Guard, we might figure the range is over 1-1.5 km.



Page 25
..swung my chainsword at the 'gaunt attacking Jurgen.
..
He rolled to his feet, snapping off a shot from his lasgun that exploded the thorax of another..
Exploding the thorax of a hormagaunt. Double to triple digit kj, Whether 'shot' encompasses a single shot or a burst, we don't know. Again it probably doesn't mean he hit the carapace.
So I will start with Cain. I'll start with just one update, because I'm lazy.. and then decide how quickly I want to rush through it later. Also, we'll get one Cain short story 'fight or flight' which I decided to revisit. First, the short story.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Connor MacLeod »

For the Emperor, part 1 The old thread is here for convenince. and fuck.. nearly 7 years at this. Thats almost a decade of be babbling, rebabbling, and wasting huge chunks of tim eon a hobby. Talk about dedication!

Its actually kind of interesting to find that for the Emperor was as engaging for me now as it was then, although I think I can verbalize why alot better. Cain was one of my 'early' peeks into 40K (alongside Execution Hour.. I think For the Emperor was like the second or third novel I read.) and that really shapes your attitudes. It was funny, silly, action packed and I totally dug the relationships Cain forged with his comrades. Its basically 'heroic fantasy' of the sort you see on TV where the 'team' never loses any of the named characters (or very rarely does.) And I think the series even pokes fun at itself in this way (with all the references like Attack Run, etc.) Don't get me wrong: The Guard fanboy in me loves the Guard depictions and the techy bits, but there's more to the series. Like his DH books, the Cain series is about the characters - plot is there to carry the characters from scene to scene, and that is the strong point of the series.

FTE is probably what I think of as 'classic' Cain.. its truest (I think) to the vision of the series and probabl ythe most memorable. Admittedly part of this is that its early in the series and the repetition hasn't set in, but it also has Cain forging those essentail relationships that are generally (I think) taken for granted in latter novels, and the bonds he forges with Ambereley, the 597th and discovering his bonds with Jurgen, are what really draw you in. Cain as a character is fascinating, and much of this book is devoted to discussing him and his nature as it is to techy stuff (partly because ti impacts his role as Commissar, but also because of him.)

Page 7-8
..the archive was written by him during his retirement while serving as a tutor at the Schola Progenium.

This would pin the date of composition to some time after his appointment to the faculty in 993 .M41, from occasional references to his published memoirs (To Serve the Emperor: A Commissarʹs Life), which first saw the light of day in 005.M42. we can. safely conclude that he was inspired by the process of writing them to embark on a fuller account of his experiences, and that the bulk of the archive was composed no earlier than this.)
Gives a rough idea of the Chronology of Cain's works, as well as the fact he published memoirs (which apparently saw 'public' circulation in the Imperium.) There is a sort of reading public in the Imperium (and a publishing industry, which we had mention of in the Munitorum manual), as well as the fact that Cain apparently served well past the 42nd Millenium.

Also reference to his retirement as a teacher. Something which I consider positive, given his qualities.



Page 8-9
Some of my fellow inquisitors may be shocked to discover that one of, the lmperiumʹs most venerated heroes was, by his own admission, a scoundrel and self-seeking rogue, a fact of which, due to our sporadic personal association, I have long been aware. Indeed, I would go so far as to contend that it was this very combination of character flaws which made him one of the most effective servants the Imperium has ever had, despite his strenuous efforts to the contrary.

For, in his century or more of active service to the Commissariat, and occasional less visible activities at my behest, he faced and bested almost every enemy of humanity: necrons, tau, tyranids and orks, eldar, both free of taint and corrupted by the ruinous powers, and the daemonic agents of those powers themselves. Reluctantly, it must be admitted, but in many cases repeatedly, and always with success, a record few, if any, more noble men can equal.

In fairness, it should also be pointed out here that Cain is his own harshest critic, often
going out of his way to deny that the many instances in which he appears, despite his
professed baser motives, to have acted primarily out of loyalty or altruism were any such
thing. It would be ironic, indeed, if his awareness of his shortcomings should have blinded
him to his own (admittedly often well-hidden) virtues.

It is also worth reflecting that if, as is often asserted, courage consists not of the absence of fear
but the overcoming of it, Cain does indeed richly deserve his heroic reputation, even if he
always steadfastly denied the fact!
This passage denotes one of the key reasons a person can like the Cain novels. It takes a role that is often seem as pure grimdark (the Commissar) and turns it into something truly inspirational, noble, and even heroic. Moreover, Cain himself does serve as the Commissar, but is presented in a role that is silly (by 40K standards) and quite human, and therein lies the appeal of the series. It defies the conventional grimdark standards without - I feel - destroying the notion that the 40K universe is a harsh, unfriendly galaxy. Indeed, there are parts in the novels that are still rather harsh (such as Cain and the Valhallans shooting the PDF in this book) which are all the more jarring because they stand out from the general 'lighter' tone. And at the same time, they have more weight (I feel) because of the humanity Cain exhibits - he has remorse for his actions, but he still does them. He shows that Commissars are not horrible grimdark caricatures, much in the same way Ibram Gaunt himself is more than just the 'figure of terror who executes poor soldiers' stereotype.

Another interesting facet of this is how it reflects the 'point of view' aspect of 40K. Publicly Cain is the model Commsisar and Hero of a stature approaching (perhaps) his contemporary Yarrick. But the 'private' Cain is a much different story - much more complex and human than the Commissar stereotype. Again this is a good thing - if it can keep the essence of the idea without being shackled to it, there's plenty of room for variety without destroying the element itself.

Further, Amberley notes she spent a fair bit of personal time transforming the archive into something other Inquisitors could read. So from an in-universe context, we are reading a about the events from Cain's POV, but with an Inquisitor's level of knowledge and awareness. Hence the annotations and corrections.

This does not mean that Amberley herself is omniscient (and thus the Cain novels are not free of error or exaggeration) but it does put things into an interesting context. The Inquisitorial 'seal' lends it some measure of authoritiy (even if Cain himself is prone to exaggerations) and the corrections tend to be flat out stated, so we can probably (reasonably) consider tha tthe bulk of it is fairly reasonable, at least for the region Cain himself occupied. And at the same time it also highlights one of the key limitations of novels as an in-universe 'source' for 40K - many are primarily 'first' or 'third' person accounts, and thus they're limited by those invdividuals own knoweldge and perceptions, so extrapolating to a greater degree (EG to the Imperium as a whole) can be difficult. The Codexes, by contrast, share the opposite problem. They provide a very broad, general view of things, but such is the way they are written (and presente) that such broad focus can leave out much of the variety inherent in the universe (which out of universe is that 'open-endedness' that allows players and modellers to employ their creativity and make up their own insertions into the universe.) - at most you get the broadest generalizations that may be loosely accurate at best, and ill-informed at worst. On top of that each Codex tends to be slanted towards the faction it is designed to cover, so there is always a bit of bias (although in the case of Cain novels, we might infer there is a Cain-centric 'bias' as well.)

The short version is - 'interpreting this shit is complex, so people shouldn't look to specific quotes or types of sources or even specific series to make broad extrapolations'. You throw it all together and then see how the pieces fall to get the most accurate picture you do. It's harder that way but its also the most consistent and most accurate you can probably get (such accuracy there is.)



Page 11-12
One of the first things you learn as a commissar is that people are never pleased to
see you...
...
A good rule of thumb in my younger days, but I’d never found myself staring down death in the eyes of the troopers I was supposed to be inspiring with loyalty to the Emperor before.
Here Cain illustrates a role Commissars played in very early 40K, before they inserted that 'summary execution' stuff that tended to become what they were most known for. For me, that and their psychological and diplomatic elements are still the more significant parts of their roles, the execution bit is simply one of the tools in their arsenal. Naturally, Cain himself is the best example (in his books) of all those 'non-execution' roles.

On the other hand, while they may not rampantly terrorize the troops, that doesn't mean they're best buddies of the troops either - that 'never pleased to see you' underscores that. They are still distant and imposing figures of authority and discipline.

Thankfully it seems a fair number of authors agree with me there and even more recent game stuff has taken to emphasizing (or recycling) the inspiration role.



Page 12
That hadn’t seemed too bad at first, as I’d had little to do except shuffle datafiles and
organise the occasional firing squad..
Assuming Cain isn't being facetious (always possible) it is interesting to wonder if the datafiles are electronic or paper. the 'definition' of datafiles I find online suggest computer, but It can still be argued either way. Assuming that definition holds (and within the context of the Cain novels its quite a reasonable assertion), that means that much of the information Cain (and presumably the regiment) deals with in their roles is more electronic than hardcopy.

Also the firing squad bit. Again it may or may not be Cain's quirks at play, but it could be entirely serious, and then underscores the fact that despite Cain is a hero and the lighter tone of the series... he's still a Commissar ad people can die at his command. The fact it's even so casual can make it even more jarring.


Page 13
..I’d been temporarily seconded to units assigned, among other things, to assault
fixed positions, clear out a space hulk, and run recon deep behind enemy lines.
IG actions Cain was part of. Again its quite diverse, and not neccesarily limited to simply serving on the ground, in trenches.


Page 13-14
Although he tried to look cool and composed, his body language betrayed his excitement at being in the presence of a living legend: at least that’s what some damn fool pictcast commentator
had called me after the Siege of Perlia, and the appellation stuck. The next thing I know my own face is grinning at me from recruiting posters all over the sector, and I couldn’t even grab a mug of recaf without having a piece of paper shoved under my nose with a request to autograph it.
Cain references his 'Cain the Hero' image. Again it's interesting how it reflects the amount of information that could be exchanged at the sector level - Cain is so well known his likeness and personality are common knowledge throughout the Sector (even though it originates on one planet, presumably from that Sector.)

note that the 'exchange of information' does not mean 'free' exchange of information - we're still talking about the Imperium, and playing up Cain's heroic aspect clearly has benefits for the Imperium (morale, recruitment, etc.)

Also the fact there are recruiting posters does illustrate that Guard service can often be voluntary. It wouldn't surprise me if local efforts (cooperations between Planetary Commanders and the Munitorum) deliberately encourage this to help pad out quotas. It's not all conscription, although the actual percentages between conscription and volunteer is not stated. That said, having volunteers and conscripts from the PDF make more sense than simply pressganging large numbers of civilians.

Also pictcast commentator. Presumably a local official and the 40K equivalent of a TV anchorperson (or propoganda mouthpiece, such as the case may be.)


Page 14
...I found myself in a shuttle approaching the hangar bay of the Righteous Wrath, a battered old troopship identical to thousands in Imperial service, almost all of which I sometimes think I’ve travelled on over the years. The familiar smell of shipboard air, stale, recycled, inextricably intertwined with rancid sweat, machine oil and boiled cabbage, hissed into the passenger compartment as the hatch seals opened.
40K troopships. One of 'thousands' Cain purportedly believes he has served on. This is almost certainly hyperbole, but on the chance it isn't, it likely means that Cain has served on hundrds (or thousands) of troop ships within the region (sector, probably) he operates in, which gives us an idea of the scale of transport capability the Munitorum has available (as opposed to conscripting merchant ships or civilian transports instead of using purpose built military ships.)

Also Cain gives us a description of the shipboard enviroment, which is typically 40K-Imperium (EG not nice, clean or sterile. Because that's the tau, not humanity! :P)



Page 16-17
..morale in the Valhallan 296th/301st was at rock bottom, and the root cause of it all was obvious from the regiment’s title. Combining below strength regiments was standard practice among the Imperial Guard, a sensible way of consolidating after combat losses to keep units up to strength and of further use in the field. What hadn’t been sensible was combining what was left of the 301st, a crack planetary assault unit with fifteen hundred years of traditional belief in their innate superiority over every other unit in the Guard, particularly the other Valhallan ones, with the 296th, a rear echelon garrison command, which, just to throw promethium on the flames, was one of the few all-women regiments raised and maintained by that desolate iceball.
Cain discusses the practiceof amalgamating regiments, and mentions it as being 'standard practice' - which is consistnet with much of the Codex fluff anyhow.

The roles of the two regiments is also of interest. One is a dedicated 'planetary assault' regiment, although what that encompasses we have no idea (other than being on the offensive.) The other is a 'rear echelon' garrison command, basically designed to hold and maintain peace and control on different planets where they may be needed. Probably reflecting those assigned to hold planets that are newly conquered. This context suggests they're not 'frontline' troops, more like second tier troops or something, but we know that's not always the case. Sometimes frontline regiments may be rotated to serve a tour as a garrison to give them 'down time' and 'R&R' so to speak.

Also all-women regiments are mentioned to be rare from Valhalla.


Page 17-18
The tyranids had attacked without warning, and every Guard regiment on the planet had been forced to resist ferociously for nearly a year before the navy and a couple of Astartes Chapters had arrived....
..
..the bureaucrats of the Munitorium had begun the process of consolidating the battered survivors into useful units once again.

On paper, at least. No one with any practical military experience would have been so half-witted as to ignore the morale effects of their decisions. But that’s bureaucrats for you.
IG forces holding out for a year against hte 'Nids. Quite an accomplishment really. They supposedly sustained 50+% casualties, but the fact there were any forces to amalgamate at all in any significant numbers suggests something less than 'near-total' decimation too.

In one of her little addendums Amberely notes that Cain was not literally meaning 'the whole chapter' was involved, but rather a couple companies from two Chapters (Reclaimers and Swords of the Emperor) Cain was using 'Chapters' in the sense of 'two groups of Space MArines' rather than 'Two one thousand strong forces of Space Marines'.

Also we get a reflection of that 'theory/practice' thing I am so fond of commenting on. In this case the viewpoint of the bureaucrat (Munitorum official) vs that of a trained military soldier (or someone like Cain.)



Page 20
"Gunner First Class Ferik Jurgen." I said. In truth there was only one grade of gunner, but I didn’t expect they’d know that..
There is only one grade of gunner in the Guard - at least in the region Cain works in. Whether this is true across the board is, of course, another good question.



PAge 21
None of the other regiments on board would venture into our part of the ship, either for social interaction or the time-honoured tradition of perpetrating practical jokes against the members of another unit.
There are at least 3 regiments onboard the transport. Possibly tens of thosuands of troops (probably so.) Also commentary on the interactions between regiments, which is either Cain glossing over certain facts (and making it seem more harmless than it is) or, reflects the Guard being alot less cruel in his region of space than one might expect normally.

Mention was made of 'navy provosts' which we meet sortly, responsible for keeping order aboardship. (Shipboard enforcers, I suspect. and thats 'enforcer' in the sense of 'PDF version of arbites' responsible for law and order.)



PAge 22-23
"You need to reassert some discipline." he told me unnecessarily. "Before the rot
spreads any further. Shoot a few, that’ll buck their ideas up."

Easy to say, of course, but not so easy in practice. That’s what most commissars would
have done, admittedly, but getting a regiment united because they’re terrified of you
and hate your guts has its own drawbacks, particularly as you’re going to find yourself
in the middle of a battlefield with these people before very long, and they’ll all have
guns. And, as I’ve already said, I had a reputation to maintain, and a good part of that
was keeping up the pretence that I actually gave a damn about the troopers under my
command. So, not an option, unfortunately.
Cain had noted earlier that if it had been an option he might have resorted to summary executions to restore the regiment to fighting order were it not for his reputation and the fact it wouldn't work, but I feel this passage tends to contradict much of that. Again this seems to be Cain's self-deprecating nature at work, as Cain is demonstrating he's got a rather good eye for psychology and diplomacy in dealing with troops and in making them effective. One wonders if perhaps he constantly understates this ability of his (and hence his reputation) because they do not seem properly 'COMMISSARLY' behaviour (cold and intimidating and psychotic, I guess.)

Which brings me to the real point of the quote - Cain's comment gives us insight into the Commisariat he is used to dealing with (again, as it pertains to the area of space he is familiar with.)

And as I noted, Cain is demonstrating a Commissar's role as a diplomant - being liaison between disparate elements of the Guard as well as the Guard and other organizations - that 'glue' holding it all together so to speak - and the value of psychology in handling (even manipulating) those under his aegis to ensure they do what needs to be done and maintain order. The fact he is lauded and promoted as a hero for this sort of activity (indeed, is made an instructor later on) tends to emphasize the perceived rarity of the 'decimation' type mentioned later. At the very least, those sorts aren't sought out.



Page 25
Her elbow strike bounced harmlessly off his torso armour,
...
..swinging a broken plate in a short, clinical arc which impacted precisely on the neck joint where helmet met flak: a bright crimson spurt of arterial blood sprayed the surrounding bystanders as the stricken provost dropped to his knees..
Provosts wear flak armour of some kind, which is good at stopping physical blows (and possibly some melee weapons) but has gaps/joints which can be exploited. That said the gaps seem to be rather small (the helmet and flak seem to provide very significant coverage)



Page 26
If you take one more step towards that door, I told myself, you’re a dead man. They’d be on me in seconds. The only way to survive was to take them by surprise.
Cain demonstrates his grasp of psychology, even in the midst of a violently brutal brawl. Maybe he's not gunning people down for their offense, but to think in this sort of situation would require quite a bit of nerve and discipline, both of which are Commissarly qualities.

Recall that Amberley ventured the idea that it was the combination of Cain's qualities (however poor he might consider them) that made him a hero and an effective Commissar, reflecting in his ability to handle people, as he does here. (in this case, ordering them to clean up the mess. Which is both awesome and hilarious in its unexpectedness.) the fact one of hte Provosts labeled him as 'brave' for facing them down like that only underscores this, really.



PAge 31
"The former troopers of the 296th and the 301st have cordially detested one another since the regiments were amalgamated. Under the circumstances the use of the 296th’s regimental dinner service was bound to be regarded as an insult by the stupider elements of the former 301st."
..
Good, let him get angry. The only way to salvage the situation was to make radical changes, and that wouldn’t work unless I could get the senior officers to feel passionately that they were necessary.
More Cain psychology. Note that despite perceiving himself as a coward, he is willingly provoking someone he described as a Guard veteran, and someone he likely would view as a proficient killer. But it's also a useful tool in achieving his goals, showing yet again why Cain is so effective. On top of this, he's clearly done his research (even if he considered it atypical, which I doubt) underlining how he makes an effort to understand those under his care. Knowledge is power, and all that.

Another thing I liked - Cain goes to the effort of fetching uncomfortable chairs for the officers to occupy while he rakes them, while he himself has a much nicer one. Again, a nice bit of psychology there worth mentioning, and reflects Cain's intelligent approach to his job.



PAge 32
..practically every regiment celebrated the anniversary of its First Founding in some way.
Each regiment thus has their own holidays distinct from other regiments in some ways at least.



Page 32
"I’m glad to hear it. Such traditions are important. A vital part of the esprit de corps we all rely on to win the Emperor his victories."
commenting on 'first founding' anniversary celebrations, it shows again an importance for pyschology and mindset in Cain's duties which he is a natural at.



Page 32
I sighed, tolerantly, and placed my laspistol on the desk. The officers’ eyes widened
slightly. Broklaw’s took on a wary expression, Kasteen’s one of barely suppressed alarm, and Sulla’s jaw dropped open. "Please don’t interrupt, lieutenant." I said mildly. "You can all have your say in a moment."
..
I had no intention of shooting anyone, of course.
I freaking love this quote. It's just so quirky, but at the same time it shows how great Cain is because he is, at his core, an actor. He engages in extensive displays of showmanship and theatre designed to inspire, motivate and even manipulate people in his charge. The combination of his knowledge of and observations of those he is responsible for with this flair for the dramatic is ultimately what makes him stand out. It isn't so much that Commissars aren't meant to be psychological (although some are unimaginative of course.) - its just Cain is unnaturally so. He's such that he doesn't have to use force to achieve his goals, merely the threat of it. And his approach means it doesn't even have to be all that overt, either.

Cain goes on to comment that as long as the two regiments maintain separate traditions, they will be divided, and their morale will suffer. Again, psychology. And Cain even mentions he's glad in having the troops unified against his decisions as it brings the regiment together. Yet again, psychology.




PAge 33
"This ship is en route to a potential warzone. We could be in combat within hours of our arrival..."
Comment on the possible speed of deployment of Guard forces on arrival. At leats at the regimental level.




Page 35
"’What I propose is to treat the date of amalgamation as a new First Founding. I’ve had the ship’s astropath contact the Munitorium, and they’ve agreed in principle. There is currently no regiment designated the Valhallan 597th, so I’ve proposed adopting that as our new identity."
This implies a fairly short transit time for communication, presumably with the sector HQ. Assuming less than a day passes) and over 100 LY, we're talking at least 36,000c average communication speed. That is almost certainly an under-estimate.



Page 36
"The Commissariat gives its servants wide discretionary powers." I said mildly. "How
we interpret them is a matter of judgment, and sometimes temperament. Not every commissar would have resisted the temptation to discourage further dissension in the ranks by decimation, for instance." Quite true, of course. There were damn few who’d go quite so far as to randomly execute one in ten of the troopers under their command to encourage the others, but they did exist, and if ever a regiment was so undisciplined that such a drastic measure might have been justified, it was this one, and they knew it. They were just lucky they’d got Cain the Hero instead of some gung-ho psychopath. I’ve met one or two in my time, and the best thing you can say for them is that they don’t tend to be around long, particularly once the shooting starts.
Cain comments on the role of Commissar,s the scope of their powers, and how interpretation plays a role. This fits in perfectly with the 'decentralized' nature of the Imperium - they can't directly control every little facet of it from a distance, they have to dispatch trusted agents to do that for them (like Cain). And that means, by nature, their powers have to be broad and open ended.

This also means that effectiveness of the Commissar depends entirely on the individual, which is a double edged sword. Someone who is intelligent, observant, and with at least some mental flexibility is better than someone who is inflexible and dogmatic ('Emperor Botherers'.) That doesn't mean they cannot be fanatical, even a fanatic can be intelligent and adaptable (within the limits of that fanaticism). An unimaginative commissar will by nature be a blunt instrument, something more akin to the stereotype from the games (EG 'decimation'). Whereas someone more like Cain is effective because of his versatility.

What's interesting is that, from Cain's POV in this book, he implies they are relatively rare in his experience. going by the bulk of Guard novels that seems a fairly reasonable assertion, although Cain doe take a different tune in other books (although he still notes here that few would execute substantial numbers of their troops unless they absolutely had to.)

To emphasize his point, Cain also mentions that if they didn't like his solution, there was always a Penal Legion. Again implied threat rather than overt threat. In line with the spirit of a Commissar's duties without the action because Cain pays attention to the roles of motivation and inspiration and such.



Page 37
I instituted a weekly prize of an afternoon’s downtime for the most efficient platoon in the regiment, and a doubling of the ale rations for the members of the most disciplined squad within it, and that helped remarkably.
Cain in that 'inspirational/motivational, rather than terrorizing' mindset. Cain mentions this has
become a regimental tradition called 'Cain's Round'. which serves as testament to his skills.



Page 39
Regicide isn’t really my game, to be honest - give me a tarot deck and a table full of suckers with more money than sense any day - but it passed the time pleasantly enough.
Cain's 'gambler' mentality really underlines his ability to both read people and his extraordinary luck, traits which both serve him well throughout the series. And yet, I suspect Cain is again downplaying his own qualities, given that he mentions the side he had picked for the game represented a 'minor tactical disadvantage' that he was sure he can overcome. It may not be HIS game., but his innate qualities more than compensate to make him good at playing it.



Page 41-42
"that Captain Parjita is the ultimate authority aboard this ship, and he’s well within his rights to insist on a court martial. If we don’t let him have one he’ll just invoke his command privilege and have Kelp and the others shot anyway."
Cain is a Commissar, yet his authority is seemingly overridden by a Ship's Captain (at least out in space) Which seems odd, given that there are Naval Commissars. either those are two separate, non-overlapping chains of command, or the ability of a Commissar from the Guard to affect Naval crews is more indirect. Maybe it reflects political divisions. It may also be one of those things that applies in one sector/region but not in another, too.



Page 42-43 and some more...

- Without quoting yet more examples of 'Cain the psychologist' I did want to note that he becomes involved in a tribunal pertaining to some guardsmen under his care who killed Navy personnel. Cain admits openly (in his archive) how to go about manipulating them to get the result he desired, not by using bribery and threats (too negative, in his opinion) but by picking people easily manipulated into backing you (through flattery, impressing them with his reputation, etc.) Again its not a 'Commisarly' thing to do (which is a nice contrast and break with 'tradition') but it retains that essence of 'inspiration and motivation' that is part of a Commissar, as well as that 'maintain morale/discipline/fighting effectiveness' thing they are supposed to do.

Frankly I probably could go on and on, as much of the book shows in lots of little ways how Cain uses his brains and charm/persuasive ability to achieve his goals, but I'd probably end up quoting the bulk of the book :P



Page 45
..he’d spent most of the trial looking bewildered and on the verge of tears. If I hadn’t seen his fit of homicidal rage for myself I would hardly have believed him capable of such insensate violence. The real irony was that he was a medical orderly, not a front line soldier at all.
One of those little 'jarring' moments, I think. While I didn't quote the brawl itself, I think this passage combined with that really kind of shows that Cain's troopers really can be the brutal killers we're lead to believe Guardsman can be through indoctrination or brainwashing. And at their core they're still humans (not Space Marines) which means they can be frail, vulnerable and even innocent. There's a good 'shock' factor in the contrast between those two images, I think, which is smething Sandy Mitchell has always been good at - he does it in his Dark Heresy novels too (Keira the psychotic death cultist assassin with a crush on a fellow Acolyte being my favorite example.



Page 46
..Sorel had slid a knife through the joints of a provost’s body armour..
Which may imply provost body armour can also stop knives.

Page 47-48
"As my esteemed colleagues will undo ubtedly agree, one of the heaviest burdens a commissar must carry is the responsibility to ensure that the regulations are obeyed not only in the letter, but the spirit. And it was with that in mind that I took the liberty of consulting with them about a possible interpretation of those regulations which I felt might offer a solution to my dilemma."
Cain and one of his 'creative' and manipulative solutios to a dilemma. It's noteworthy I feel because of the emphasis on 'spirit' rather than just letter. your stereotypical commisar is going to be inflexible and fanatical and fixated precisely on (and probably only) the letter of the regulations. Paying attnetion to both (and distinguishing between the two) is alot more subtle and requires a certain amount of mental flexibility - something early fluff commissars (and many novel ones) have in spades because they were both inspirational symbols as well as diplomats and psychologists to do their duties, not just scary guys with hats and guns hwo shot people to get what they wanted. Cain's attitude reinforce the former quite well, and the fact he could pull it off (and so many other Commissars both junior and veteran) went along iwth him says alot about that mindset.



Page 54
From Purge the Guilty! An impartial account of the liberation of Gravalax, by Stententious
Logar. 085.M42
Whilst far from impartial (or well researched) it is a public document/analysis of events (again hinting at a publishing industry of some sort) and an indicator that the Imperium surivves at LEAST a century past the 42nd Millenium.



Page 55
Up until this point Gravalax had been an obscure outpost of civilisation, barely noticed by the wider galaxy. Enough of its landmasses were fertile to keep its relatively sparse population tolerably well fed, and it possessed adequate mineral reserves for such industry as it supported. In short, it had nothing to attract any trade, and an insufficient population base to be worth tithing for the Imperial Guard. It was, to be blunt, a backwater, devoid of anything of interest.
An idea of what represents an unimportant, Ultima Segmentum/Eastern Fringe backwater. Again note the self-sufficiency implied, which is supposed to be 'rare' in the Imperium - the interdependence you get between agri, mining, and hive/forge worlds for example. Of course as I noted before, it could be that that dependence is more economic than absolute - worlds could be self sufficient in many basic ways yet depend on the trade and contact with other worlds in other ways to thrive or to sustain a civilization/standard of living.



Page 60
It was hardly unprecedented for men and women to serve together in the Imperial Guard. Notable units in which this was the norm included the Omicron Rangers, Tanith First, and Calderon Rifles. However, with women making up fewer than ten per cent of the total number under arms, and the vast majority of those serving in single-sex regiments, it wouldn’t be that surprising if the 597th excited a certain amount of curiosity among the onlookers present.
A comment on the amount of women present in the Guard. We dont know how widepsread Amberley's knowledge is, so it could be off, but she sounds pretty confident to speak in general (as opposed to being a local/regional practice), although it could differ in other Segmentum. And don't forget this makes certain assumptions about the reliability of the Munitorum's paperwork too.

Other possibilities are it simply reflects the types of worlds and cultures being recruited from, givne that the Imperium is a mix of high and low tech civs it is hardly surprising that some might be backwards. Even some relatively 'modern' societies (comparable to ours, say) can still have women drastically under-represented in the military (such was the case until very recenlty IIRC.) On the other hand, given the recruitment practices on some places like hive worlds (where gangers can be male and female both) and the like is not nearly as selective or precise to allow such discrimination - especially when it comes ot the type of 'at need' conscription they may conduct when wars and such are ongoing. In such a context, the 'ratio' implied above may only be repreesntative of one particular type of tithe rathre than in generla.



Page 61
To put it into some kind of perspective, a regiment consists of anything up to half a dozen companies - five in our case, most of which had four or five platoons. The exception was Third Company, which was our logistical support arm, and consisted mainly of transport vehicles, engineering units, and anything else we couldn’t find a sensible place for on the SO&E. All told, that came to much the same thing in a headcount. Factor in five squads a platoon, at ten troopers each, plus a command element to keep them all in line, and you’re looking at nearly a thousand people by the time you’ve added in the various specialists and the different layers of the overall command structure
Size and composition of the Valhallan 597th at this time. It gets recruits in latter novels, so this size is probably not fixed. Exactly why a consolidated regiment gets recruits we dont know, it possibly may be due to Cain's status. This would probably reflect most companies having four platoons. Depending on how you game it out, they could have as few as 800-900 or as many as 1100-1200 precisely.



Page 61-62
..Kasteen had decided to split the squads into five-man fire-teams, anticipating that any open conflict was likely to take place in and around the urban areas. Beating off the tyranids on Corania had convinced her that smaller formations were easier to coordinate in a city fight than full-strength squads.
...
A widespread, though unofficial practice among units experienced in urban warfare. So much so that it’s now become part of the standard operating procedure in many regiments, the ad hoc arrangement persisting to become a permanent feature of their organisation.
Cain's and Amberley's comments on the Squad/Fire Team arrangement. The idea of five man 'units' is not unprecedented or conflicting with the game, epic 40K for example often broke units up into 5 man 'teams', which may be the origin of the five man fire teams here, and its unofficial origins. Really, the Guard seems to habitually do alot of 'unofficial' modification or adapting of the 'official' rules when their out in the field when the situation suits - whether its making field modifications or upgrades to vehicles (such as souping up the engines for greater speed, added armor, or converting one kind of vehcile into another) or doing stuff like fire Teams, the Guard does not always follow the letter of the regs. What's more, this seems to be a semi-tolerated spproach for at least some regiments (as long as it works) given that the Commissars would have to be aware of it and if they disapproved there would be heads rolling (literlaly.)



Page 62-63
We intended to make an impression with our arrival, and by the Emperor, we surely
did, setting out to march the ten kloms2 or so into the city. Most of the troopers were glad of the exercise...
...
A Valhallan slang abbreviation for ’’kilometre’’ Cain served with Valhallan units for most of his life, and almost inevitably his speech became peppered with colloquialisms acquired from them.
Again language variances in units of measurement. as i noted last time, this might have implications for others, like 'Thule' (as in megathule). or it may not.

Al,so, either the Valhallan 597th is short of Chimeras or they decided to dismount and walk to make an impression, as I remember distinctly later on they were more heavily mechanised than this. Of course igven they just amalgamated, and the fact one of the old regiments was a garriosn one, they could quite likely have been light on vehicles. It's also possible that the fame of the regiment with Cain attached (or Amberley's Inquisitorial influence) were factors in improving the lot of the regiment (which may also explain the latter refenrece to recruits)



Page 67
..the Imperium had been fortifying against an expected incursion by the tau for some time, and I gathered that the Righteous Wrath’s complement (three full regiments apart from our own) brought the total up to around thirty thousand all told. That should have been more than enough to keep a backwater planet, even spread out across the whole globe, but rumour had it we could expect still more reinforcement, which worried me more than I wanted to show.

With that amount of build-up it seemed the aliens wanted this place quite badly, and we’d more than likely be expected to hold it the hard way.

We were quartered next to one of the Valhallan armoured regiments..

Cain comments on the Garrisoning of Gravalax. thirty thousand seems typical for a 'backwater' , although it also seems to represent a fairly significant deployment of troops for a conflict - in this case the Tau.

Also its multiple forces - armoured, infantry, artillery and th elike. There ar at least 3 Valhallan regiments as well (including Cain's old arty one.)

Also Cain's former troop transport carried at least 3 full regiments plus the 597th, which can mean at least 7-8 thousand to 24,000 troops and their gear.


Page 70
"Some of their wargear has to be seen to be believed. They’ve got these things like dreadnoughts, but they’re fast, like Astartes infantry but twice the size, and their tanks make the eldar stuff look like they were built by orks"
Divas, Cain's freidn from the old Valhallan 12th Arty regiment, seems to think highly of the Tau compared ot the Eldar. Which is frankly bullshit, given that Eldar gunships and grav tanks make anything the tau have look like a cart and buggy, in terms of speed, sophistication AND firepower.



Page 74-75
"But I’msurprised they’re prepared to risk it..."
..
"They must know we’ll never allow them to annex the place without a fight."

"They claim they’re just here to safeguard their trading interests," Divas said. We both snorted with laughter at that one. We knew how often the Imperium had said exactly the same thing before launching an all-out invasion of some luckless ball of dirt. Of course when we did it, it was true, and it was my job to shoot anyone who thought otherwise.
..
"One for the diplomats, then,’"
We see the sneakiness of both the Imperium and the tau when it comes to their expansionist endeavours, and inadvertantly how both are far more similar than they might be willing to admit.`

Also mention of the diplomatic side of things, both with the world itself and the tau, showing the Imperium DOES keep a diplomatic corps around and they even negotaiate with filthy xenos as the situation requires.


Page 75
The owner was a corporal in the PDF reserves, recently retired after twenty years’ service...
Possibly an indicator of a 'volunteer/militia' aspect to the PDF, not unlike the second/third tier PDF forces from novels like Titanicus, or the Armageddon militia that served alongside the PDF and STeel Legions.


page 80
"You’re here to take our world!" the leader shouted. As he came forward fully into the light I could see that his face was painted blue, a delicate pastel shade. It should have made him look ridiculous, but the overall effect was somehow charismatic. "But you’ll never take our freedom!"
Who knew Braveheart was a tau sympathizer?


Page 80
I just managed to draw my laspistol and snap off a shot, taking out half the face of one of the group..
Whehter this means simply grazing and blasting away/burning part of the face, or blowing away an entire side of the head we don't know, but I'd bet it safely says at least single digit kj damage inflicted, if from nothing but third degree burns (10x5 cm area burnt is 50 sq cm, at 30-50 j per sq cm thats 1.5-2.5 kj) If we assume a 5x5 to 10x10 area for flaying (400 j per sq cm flash burns if one recalls will steam explosion flesh down to bone, at least per Nuclear weapons FAQ) you can get 10 to 40 kj per bolt.


Page 80
A famous military blunder in the Spiron campaign, which took place on 438.926.M41. Captain Gannack’s sentinel troop, from the 3rd Kalaman Hussars, misinterpreted their orders and charged an ork redoubt containing an artillery battery. No one survived
Another amberley subscript. BUT CHARGING ALWAYS WORKS!


Page 87
’It’s often remarked that diplomacy is just warfare by other means. Our battles are no
less desperate for being bloodless, but at least we get wine and finger food.’
- Tollen Ferlang, Imperial Envoy to the Realm of Ultramar, 564-603 M41.
I find this quote interesting not so much that we have a diplomatic corps maintained by the Imperium (as I noted before), but rather that their role seems to encompass more than simply dealing with aliens. Apparently they need diplomats to deal with its own internal dynamics as well (at least with people like Space Marines.) which adds a 'mediator' dimension to the Imperial diplomatic corps. And it sorta makes sense - we know from the LAthe Worlds that some AdMech maintain Magos whose role is primarily to act as envoys and interpreaters betwene the AdMech and the rest of the Imperium.


Page 91
Armed with my commissarial authority, which let him requisition practically anything short of a battleship without argument, he’d developed quite a talent for acquiring anything I considered necessary for my comfort or convenience over the years.
Allowing for a certain measure of exaggeration in his statement (unless we take Caves of ICe as an example lol) this reflects the fact Commissars are, by and large, officers of the Munitorum and thus have certain powers resulting from that. The ability to requisition shit from said Munitorum (or those beholden to that same Munitorum, such as Planetary Commanders.) is hardly surprising.



Page 92
"The Emperor points, and we obey."

"Through the warp and far away." She finished the old song line with a smile.
I took this as a reference to the Richard Sharpe series, since its the context in which I am most familiar with the song, but some online searching shows it actually predated that considerably. You learn something new every day. In any case its a reference of one kind or another, which is kinda neat.




Page 97
The majority of planetary governorships are hereditary positions, and many of the incumbents aren’t up to the challenge of the job. However, the truly incompetent tend to be weeded out by the ceaseless round of dynastic power struggles and coups d’etat which keep the aristocracy amused, and in cases where Imperial interests are directly threatened, we can always turn to the Officio Assassinorum.
Another Amberley comment, reflecting Planetary Governors. It's an interesting commentary in light of the fact that by and large the Imperium is known to take little interest in local affairs so long as their own requirements (mostly the tithe and psykers) are met and their laws upheld. Of course in practice this is as variable as anything else, and some Imperial commanders may get fucked over by some organ of the Imperium for private (greed-based) reasons.


Page 98 - another one of those little scenes I ilke about Cain as a character, but rather than quote it I'd simply bring it to light because its the point where he first sees Amberley (although he doesnt know her at that time.) Its interesting because despite protestations of 'not being in love' and all that, you can see in the WAY he talks about it there is a very very strong attachment there, and the idea of a Commissar having feelings for anyone is just so deliciously atypical of the 'role' (or rather caricature) I simply cannot help but like it. Much as in Mitchell's Dark Heresy novels you have a bloodthirsty redemptionist Death Cult assassin who gets a crush on one of her comrades.



Page 101
"Erasmus Donali, Imperial Envoy."
...

"You have the look of a diplomat about you."
...
"I’m a commissar, I’m supposed to consider the bigger picture."
..
"But if people like you can solve the conflict by negotiation, and keep troopers who would have died here alive to fight another enemy another day, and maybe tip the balance in a more important battle, then it seems to me that you’re serving the best interests of the Imperium"
Context: Cain is talking with the Imperial diplomat assigned to deal with the planetary governor and the tau in this potential flashpoint, and the Diplomat expresses surprise that cain is not acting all triggerhappy and gung-ho for a fight (contrary to perceptions of IG behaviour.) Cain mentions he's supposed to have a wider view than simply fighting, which the Envoy expresses surprise that Cain seems glad not to fight, which is when Cain offers that last bit.

It's interesting for the way Cain's view on matters is viewed as being acceptable - at the very least as one interpretation of Imperial policy. Even allowing for the 'variable' nature of Imperial politics, the fact that an approach othre than 'rampant unthinking militancy' might be considered is both reasonable and consistent. AS I noted before the Imperium can be pragmatic as well as sneaky, especially when it comes to its Imperialistic endeavours. In that respect they're much like the tau, although I'd still say the tau are better at it generally. (at least in a diplomatic vein. A mindset not crippled by xenophobic propoganda can be an asset.)


Page 104
"And two full divisions of Imperial Guard on planet."
IG divisions. More than just regiments.


Page 107
"Everyone knows that undercover inquisitors disguise themselves as rogue traders most of the time."
...
"It is indeed regrettable that this predilection has become so widely known. Personally, I blame popular fiction for perpetuating the stereotype, although it has to be said that some inquisitors are simply woefully lacking in imagination when required to adopt a disguise."
The first part is a Cain comment, the second Amberley providing context in her little notes. It was interesting mainyl for the humour, but also for the 'popular fiction' reference - Much as with the later-mentioned 'Attack Run' series, I always like the mentions of 40K having things like fiction and TV entertainment. Even if it is a dystopian shithole, you have to amuse yourself somehow. Besides it makes for great propoganda!


Page 114
Clearly the races of the tau empire saw nothing wrong in absorbing the mores and fashions of one another’s cultures, eroding their very identities in the name of their union, a notion any loyal Imperial citizen would have regarded with as much horror as I did. I’d seen at first hand what happened when traitors and heretics abandoned their humanity to follow the twisted teachings of Chaos, and the thought of how fertile a soil the warp-spawned abominations would find the Imperium if it were ever to become as unwittingly open to alien influence as the tau and their dupes chilled my very soul.

Cain believes that the tau's 'open door' policies can leave it (and the Imperium) vulnerable to manipulation by Chaos. Part of it is bound to be reactionary 'OH NO FREEDOM' BS, I'll admit, but we've also seen how naieve the tau can be about 'mystic' stuff - the entire Fire Warrior novel was based on that after all, and their exposure to Chaos and the like is bound to have been limited. We might attribute this reasoning to the purported 'threat' of the tau (eg being linked as a gateway to Chaos more or less) but even then I'd consider it more hysteria-laden nonsense than a serious threat.


Page 116-117
"The tau equivalent to haemoglobin contains cobalt, rather than iron, so their blood and viscera vary from dark blue to purple, depending on the degree of oxygenation. Don’t even get me started about the smell."
comment from Amberley on tau biology.


Page 117
"Gue’la animals! Is this how you respond to proposals of peace?" The gun-waving tau was
getting hysterical, swinging the weapon wildly.
Antother of those Sandy Mitchell 'ironies', and another tau who is a complete asshole. They crop up from time to time.


Page 118
The channel wasn’t secured, which meant every listening post on both sides had probably picked up my transmission.
Communications eavesdropping, at least on unencrypted links.


Page 119
Kasteen subvocalised into my combead..
comm subvocalization



Page 122
"This will be investigated," Donali said, "and the murderer brought to account. You
have my word."

"We are aware of the value of Imperial promises," El’sorath said, with the barest trace
of sarcasm.
Again this shows that Imperial diplomacy, evne with aliens, does exist, and they're trained to treat them in a manner other than 'FILTHY ALIEN SUBMIT OR BE DESTROYED'. Respectful even, which is not the first time such has been demonstrated (military personnel and even Space Marines can 'respect' the tau, even as they want to beat the shit out of them.)

Of course its less altruism than pragmatism dictating the diplomacy, which is underscored by the tau diplomat's (slight) sarcastic reply. And a bit true - the Imperium wouldn't hesitate to break a promise if it suited their purposes or if they could beat the tau. Of course, the same could also be said of the tau, which yet again underscores how many similarities the two expansionist empires have.



Page 124
"More lies!" El’hassai had been quiet for the last few minutes, staring at the ambassador’s corpse as though he expected it to sit up and start giving us the answers. "You think we’d sacrifice one of our own to seize control here?"
Actually, the tau probably would, if they felt it would serve the cause of the Greater Good. For the tau, the Greater Good forgives everything.

I should note the Diplomat, Donali, expresses concern that the Imperium's priority must be to get the tau delegation to safety. Again this isn't altruism, its practicality. IF the tau delegation gets slaughtered after its ambassador gets killed, war breaks out, and the Imperium can't afford a war on this planet.



Page 126
Donali kept up with difficulty, but managed to converse with El’sorath the whole way, slipping between platitudes in Imperial Gothic and the sibilant tau tongue..
Imperial diplomat speaking the tau language.



Page 128
"At the moment this is still an internal Gravalaxian matter."

"Whereas if we get involved, we run the risk of bringing the rest of the Guard in behind us."
This probably speaks more to the hands off 'as long as you meet your obligations, the Imperium doesn't care how you rule or what you do.' style of Imperial domination, although it probably doesn't factor in the 'indirect' controls (having Adeptus terra representatives on the planet, for example.) On the other hand it does speak to the fact that the Imperium's definition of control or ownership is rather.. variable. This context makes Gravalax sound more like an ally or protectorate rather than a 'directly owned' Imperial world, which makes sense given that the nature of warp travel and communications make direct control difficult, so they have no other choice than to go by alliance.

and as I am wont to point out, this also lends credence to the idea that 'million worlds' probably does not include worlds 'allied' with the Imperium, explaining the 'million worlds vs millions/billions' discrepancy.



Page 129
Lustig had fanned the troopers out into a textbook defensive pattern, making good use of the available cover, and I could see that the two fire-teams had set up in mutually supporting positions as Kasteen had intended.
Valhallan tactics in covering their charges.





Page 130
..it set off a secondary explosion, probably the fuel or the powercells.
secondary explosion from a tau flyer of some kind. Assuming this isn't Cain hyperbole, this probably reflects Cain's experience with similar tech, possibly indicative of the primary means by which Imperial vehicles are powered - particularily given Cain - as a commissar - would be likely to think in Imperial terms. So fuel cells or batteries as a power source for some Imperial vehicles would make sense (and has been hinted at in various sources before, so its not unprecedented either.)



Page 132-133
"Bringing them into direct conflict with Imperial forces. The one thing we can’t allow to happen if we’re to have any hope of avoiding a full-scale war over this miserable mudball."

"Then we must die," El’sorath said, as though he’d been suggesting a stroll through the park. "The greater good demands it." His companions looked sober, but none of them argued.

"No." Donali did, though, he wasn’t about to have any little blue martyrs offing themselves on his watch. "It demands that you live, to continue the negotiations in good faith."

"That would be preferable," El’sorath said. I was beginning to suspect that the tau had a sense of humour.
Another fun passage. Aside from beating that 'Imperial diplomacy' drum again, and the fact we have a tau with a sense of humor, its interesting in light of the earlier proclamation about 'tau not sacrificing their own' - because that is what we clearly have in this case, and none of the tau's companions even argue the point. Again, when it comes to the Greater Good, everything is fair game and virtually any action justified.




Page 133
For a moment, I struggled with the idea of the xenos as people. I suppose Donali’s diplomatic training made him think a little differently from the rest of us.
...
’Going xeno' as it’s colloquially known, is an occupational hazard among diplomats who spend a lot of time in contact with an alien culture. The prolonged immersion in a foreign mindset sometimes leads them to identify closely with the beings they’re negotiating with. In this case, however, it seems clear that Donali was just being polite.
Another comment on Imperial diplomacy with aliens, and how it differs with the more 'proper' Imperial mindset as propoganda instils it. Even Cain finds it hard to think in those terms, which I think is telling. A diplomat (or a Rogue Trader, or Inquisitor) is of a different mindset, and can't be quite so fanatical or dogmatic, however.

The fact that there's a risk of 'going xeno' (or native, so to speak) also suggests that a fair number of Imperial diplomats interact with alien races. When you think of how often the Imperium is beset with alien threats of a local (or more epic) variety, diplomacy seems like a good idea to delay or avert threats (at least in the short term).
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by DieselJester »

First off: I love the Ciaphas Cain novels! :) I'll read more of all of this in depth during my lunch break.

But my first impressions of Cain were not that he was an outright coward (although the initial short story in "Hero of the Imperium" omnibus would suggest otherwise), merely just looking out his personal wellbeing (look out for #1 first and everyone else second perhaps?) seeing as Inquisitors have an incredibly short lifespan in 40K. :D
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Simon_Jester »

That's the superficial analysis, but there's some depth there. Cain gets into heroic situations a lot, more often than I think can be logically explained by his attempts to preserve his own heroic reputation. He always passes it off after the fact that way, or by rationalizing a very dangerous act as being really the safest course ("of course I had to charge the daemon of Khorne with a rusty bayonet and a vial of holy water.") But you can make a reasonable case that Cain himself is braver than he believes, or has less total regard for his own safety.

And yet, Cain thinks of himself as a coward at heart, and plays up his own dislike of danger in a set of memoirs written after the fact- why might that be?
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Cain is interesting because he's a character you can literally interpret in so many ways. If you want to let the 'absurdity' stand, then alot of the seeming 'coincidences' simply become part of that silliness... and that is defintely part of the character of the book and the series. People often say its 'Flashman or Blackadder in space' and its more accurate than calling the Ghosts 'Sharpe in Space', but its still a bit of an over-simplification. There is always an element of... uncertainty in his character. The way he does things, the way he phrases it, Amberley's observations, etc. mean it may be more complicted than just BLACKADDER IN SPACE.

I think the best example of 'Cain is more than he seems' is 'Cain's Last Stand' where we see him still with Jurgen, but also responsible for other people's lives other than his own (people he taught.) It was very hard for me, after reading that novel, to simply go 'Cain is a Coward/selfish bastard/etc.' Rather than say 'Cain is just a human, with the same weaknesses we do, trying to be play a role.' Because when you get down to it, he is playing a role, and he is a gifted manipulator and judge of people (which makes him an exceptional commissar.) but he's not neccesarily the Fraud he makes himself out to be, because the motivations behind his manipulations and character assessments are what really matter there.

Besides it can be said that at their heart, any Commissar, at least the good ones - is a psychologist and a manipulator. ITs their task to get the Guard to do what its supposed to (even if ti doesnt want to) By any means necessary, and that means being smarter and sneakier than the people you lead as much as presenting a inspiring/intimidating role.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Alkaloid »

I took this as a reference to the Richard Sharpe series, since its the context in which I am most familiar with the song, but some online searching shows it actually predated that considerably. You learn something new every day. In any case its a reference of one kind or another, which is kinda neat.
If I recall, the Tanith 1st regimental song is Over the Skies and far Away or something similar, so it probably is a reference given the amount of other Gaunts references in the book.
Size and composition of the Valhallan 597th at this time. It gets recruits in latter novels, so this size is probably not fixed. Exactly why a consolidated regiment gets recruits we dont know, it possibly may be due to Cain's status. This would probably reflect most companies having four platoons. Depending on how you game it out, they could have as few as 800-900 or as many as 1100-1200 precisely.
I think in a later book it's actually mentioned that this is standard for Valhallan units if not other worlds, and the 597th actually gets it easy as they are being reinforced for their two original units instead of one due to a paperwork stuff up.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Simon_Jester »

Personally I think Cain is not unusually cowardly, and in some situations is unusually brave. But he thinks he's a coward, has internalized the idea that he lacks courage, because he has a fairly normal human amount of it. He's not excessively, fanatically, recklessly brave, and that's what the Imperium conditions its citizens to be, especially as the scholas that train the Imperium's military elite.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Zinegata »

Simon_Jester wrote:And yet, Cain thinks of himself as a coward at heart, and plays up his own dislike of danger in a set of memoirs written after the fact- why might that be?
Probably being guilt-ridden that he actually survived that long? (Possibly because the memoirs were written after Jurgen died - who does many heroic things in the series but, as Amberley constantly points out - never got any of the credit).
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Kuja »

Simon_Jester wrote:Personally I think Cain is not unusually cowardly, and in some situations is unusually brave. But he thinks he's a coward, has internalized the idea that he lacks courage, because he has a fairly normal human amount of it. He's not excessively, fanatically, recklessly brave, and that's what the Imperium conditions its citizens to be, especially as the scholas that train the Imperium's military elite.
I think Cain had something of a feedback loop going. He grew up in a hive where looking out for #1 against the myriad dangers was paramount to survival and then had to somehow reconcile the years of instinctive avoidance with the expectations of the Commissariat.

Fortunately for Cain he managed to run into enough situations where flight was genuinely the poorer option to fight that by the time of 'Cain's Last Stand' his excuses feel more like they're being made just because he's used to it compared to stuff in the early stories like the time he genuinely tried to desert his regiment.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Alkaloid wrote:If I recall, the Tanith 1st regimental song is Over the Skies and far Away or something similar, so it probably is a reference given the amount of other Gaunts references in the book.
It gets mentioned in Ghostmaker, but I'm too lazy to look it up.
I think in a later book it's actually mentioned that this is standard for Valhallan units if not other worlds, and the 597th actually gets it easy as they are being reinforced for their two original units instead of one due to a paperwork stuff up.
The problem I had with this is that they literally have to travel halfway across the galaxy (and back) and the same for the recruits to do it. Its not IMPOSSIBLE mind you, and the Munitorum has done similarily stupid things before (Taros and Vraks come to mind) but this really speaks more to me of either special status or inertia than 'routine'. There's plenty of Guard reigments who would NOT be reinforced that way (At least not without special reason. Imperial Glory comes to mind.)

I tend to think of 'reinforcement' being more common for regiments serving within sectors than out of it.

Kuja wrote:I think Cain had something of a feedback loop going. He grew up in a hive where looking out for #1 against the myriad dangers was paramount to survival and then had to somehow reconcile the years of instinctive avoidance with the expectations of the Commissariat.

Fortunately for Cain he managed to run into enough situations where flight was genuinely the poorer option to fight that by the time of 'Cain's Last Stand' his excuses feel more like they're being made just because he's used to it compared to stuff in the early stories like the time he genuinely tried to desert his regiment.
That parallels my own thinking. Whatever his flaws, Cain is still a Commissar and that has to say something for him. I think thats really what is so fascinating about the Cain series. Even though you can still regard it as 'lighthearted', the exploration of Cain as a character and trying to interpret from all his writings and thoughts is interesting to do, because there are so many possible ways to interpret it, and overall it presents him as a much more human, complex, and different character than you typically get with Commissars (from say, the Guard codex). There's a subtelty here that people wouldn't usually attribute to 40K, because there's often that perception (from the same codexes) taht 40K treats drama as a blunt hammer to beat people over the head with.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Simon_Jester »

Connor MacLeod wrote:The problem I had with this is that they literally have to travel halfway across the galaxy (and back) and the same for the recruits to do it. Its not IMPOSSIBLE mind you, and the Munitorum has done similarily stupid things before (Taros and Vraks come to mind) but this really speaks more to me of either special status or inertia than 'routine'. There's plenty of Guard reigments who would NOT be reinforced that way (At least not without special reason. Imperial Glory comes to mind.)
Attempt to resolve this follows:

The thing about Valhalla is that it's essentially a planet that manufactures soldiers, that's what it's for. Valhalla has been producing a specialized sort of soldiers (ice-worlders and orc-fighters) for millenia, its population is more or less fixed. The most efficient way to manage that situation, I think, would be to have a fixed number of Valhallans under arms (say, 10% of the population), most of them off-planet. As new Valhallan soldiers are trained, a steady stream of them are sent out on transports to parts of the galaxy where Valhallan regiments already fight. These soldiers might be grouped into whole new regiments, or allocated to reinforce existing regiments.

This preserves the uniformity of the Valhallan infantry regiments, which is desirable because the Valhallans are routinely called on to do things most planets don't train their Guardsmen to do. An even more obvious example would be Kriegers or Elysian paratroops. It's worth recruiting reinforcements from their homeworld because their capabilities are unique; if my Guard army contains an Elysian regiment I will want to keep it, and will move heaven and earth to get company-sized slices of Elysian reinforcements sent to keep it up to strength if I possibly can.


The situation is a little different when dealing with, say, the Tanith/Vervunhive/Belladon "Ghosts". There, the regiment is raised and for obvious reasons will never be replenished from its homeworld. It does not have a longstanding reputation of providing some unique military capability, even if in reality it does. So it just gets... used up.


So that explains reinforcements or lack thereof for "sent halfway across the galaxy" regiments. Planets whose chief export is more Guardsmen will keep up a continuous stream of replacements, because that way they can keep the elite regiments from their planet continuously effective in combat. The main limit on how many such regiments there are is probably how fast replacements can be raised from the homeworld.

More normal planets' regiments will not be continuously replenished in this way, if their regiment goes far from home, it'll just be ground down by attrition until it is resettled, amalgamated, or wiped out in combat.


Within the sector, again, continuous reinforcement starts making more sense.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Ahriman238 »

My impression, I can't really say where I picked it up, is that most IG units periodically rotate home for a stretch of garrison duty while they recruit back up to full strength. I doubt this is how it works for the 597th though, as Cain would get entirely too comfortable.

But I doubt reinforcements are shipped directly to the front lines. We know the Valhallans, and it seems most forces in the Damocles Gulf, are staged out of Sigma Coronus, and barring some emergency situation the 597th always goes back when not in action. I suspect they find supplies and recruits waiting.

Only thing I really remember about how they get their recruits is that thanks to a clerical error they get twice as many recruits as other regiments (for the now-amalgated 301st/296th) which means replacement generally keeps up with losses, more or less. I wonder if that says more for the situations the regiment gets into, or the state of other regiments?
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Simon_Jester »

Both.

It is HARD to keep an infantry force up to strength during continuous intense combat. Some US frontline units took 200% or 300% casualties during 10 months from Normandy to VE Day in the European theater: in other words, the number of men wounded or killed in action while serving in (say) the 1st Infantry Division was two or three times the size of the actual First Infantry Division.

Rear echelon positions were much safer, but the combat infantry still get ground up pretty badly.

The 597th spends protracted periods in garrison positions or counterinsurgency, which isn't as bloody, but they do probably take a lot of losses. And in the limiting case, I wouldn't be surprised if sometimes guard regiments take 30%, 50%, or even 80-90% losses in a day or two of very intense fighting; all those things have happened in real life to infantry forces the size of a 40k regiment.

Which is why the practices of amalgamating regiments, and settling veteran regiments on planets, exist.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Ahriman238 »

Makes sense. The 296th and 301st were almost annihilated by Tyranids, then amalgamated. It was bad enough that Kasteen and Broklaw were basically the only surviving officers. Cain mostly made the amalgamation a matter of fact and not just an abstract clerical reality.

They took some casualties on Gravalax, but Cain wasn't there for most of it. Then what? Orichalcae or Adumbria? Then some years later, Periremunda and Nusquan Fundumentibus.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Ahriman238 »

I actually reread the Cain books recently, just before getting 'the Greater Good.' So I'm glad you're doing these now when they're fresh on my mind. I also see you're doing the short stories from the omnibuses. The first Cain omnibus was, oh, my 5th or 6th 40K book, and the first outside the HH series.

Anyone ever wonder how there are so many Commissar heroes? Yarrick, Gaunt and Cain?

Ok, actually getting into it.
Tyranid Gargoyles appear. Interesting that they discharge bioplasma (I dont remember if they can do that or not) and it actually seems to be thermal. Cain's chainsword is variable speed.
Not generally, no.

Fleshborers are standard for Gargoyles, and IIRC there's fluff of some spitting acid as a secondary attack. Then again, fluff 'Nids are implied to be a lot more customizable then in the game.

Cain books mention different chain-sword speeds a few times, mostly with him switching it to max speed as he draws or lowering speed to conserve power. I don't think I've seen this is in any other 40K stories, but you're far better read than I.

Another thing I liked - Cain goes to the effort of fetching uncomfortable chairs for the officers to occupy while he rakes them, while he himself has a much nicer one. Again, a nice bit of psychology there worth mentioning, and reflects Cain's intelligent approach to his job.
A teacher I knew once suggested sawing half an inch off the the front legs of a chair, so the person sitting in it has to perch slightly awkwardly on it, but it's still subtle. Then keeping a good chair in the corner for when you don't need to project authority. It's a very old trick.
I freaking love this quote. It's just so quirky, but at the same time it shows how great Cain is because he is, at his core, an actor. He engages in extensive displays of showmanship and theatre designed to inspire, motivate and even manipulate people in his charge. The combination of his knowledge of and observations of those he is responsible for with this flair for the dramatic is ultimately what makes him stand out. It isn't so much that Commissars aren't meant to be psychological (although some are unimaginative of course.) - its just Cain is unnaturally so. He's such that he doesn't have to use force to achieve his goals, merely the threat of it. And his approach means it doesn't even have to be all that overt, either.

Cain goes on to comment that as long as the two regiments maintain separate traditions, they will be divided, and their morale will suffer. Again, psychology. And Cain even mentions he's glad in having the troops unified against his decisions as it brings the regiment together. Yet again, psychology.
Kasteen does the same thing a number of times in later books, placing her gun on the table to remind everyone to be polite/productive. Now I wonder if that was intentional, suggesting she learned it from Cain.

The other part of Cain's job (where his penchant for theatrics helps) is diplomacy. Another thing a lot of commissars seem to neglect. Cain is always coordinating and liaising outside the unit (good way to keep off the firing line) and smoothing things over with local law enforcement, PDFs, the Mechanicus, the Astartes, and everyone else with feathers to get ruffled. He's the guy Kasteen (and later Zyvan) turns to when they need to talk to someone she'd rather just shoot. He's unfailingly polite and respectful, even to people who annoy him like Sulla.

This also means that effectiveness of the Commissar depends entirely on the individual, which is a double edged sword. Someone who is intelligent, observant, and with at least some mental flexibility is better than someone who is inflexible and dogmatic ('Emperor Botherers'.) That doesn't mean they cannot be fanatical, even a fanatic can be intelligent and adaptable (within the limits of that fanaticism). An unimaginative commissar will by nature be a blunt instrument, something more akin to the stereotype from the games (EG 'decimation'). Whereas someone more like Cain is effective because of his versatility.


Yep. We see two other commissars in the series, Bejie and Forres. Both of them suffer because they apply the rules dogmatically, while Cain knows when to give a trooper a stern talking to, and when a quiet word, or not making an issue at all, will work better.

It sort of makes me wonder, guanxi is the coin of the Imperium and Cain might almost get more mileage out of his desire to not offend anyone, or piss off the troops he counts on to watch his back, then he does his reputation.

Without quoting yet more examples of 'Cain the psychologist' I did want to note that he becomes involved in a tribunal pertaining to some guardsmen under his care who killed Navy personnel. Cain admits openly (in his archive) how to go about manipulating them to get the result he desired, not by using bribery and threats (too negative, in his opinion) but by picking people easily manipulated into backing you (through flattery, impressing them with his reputation, etc.) Again its not a 'Commisarly' thing to do (which is a nice contrast and break with 'tradition') but it retains that essence of 'inspiration and motivation' that is part of a Commissar, as well as that 'maintain morale/discipline/fighting effectiveness' thing they are supposed to do.

Frankly I probably could go on and on, as much of the book shows in lots of little ways how Cain uses his brains and charm/persuasive ability to achieve his goals, but I'd probably end up quoting the bulk of the book
And again, Cain uses diplomacy. The captain wanted to flat out execute the men, which Cain saw would devastate morale while the unit was still new. So he flatters and cajoles and trades on his reputation until he gets a compromise- death by suicide squad- that suits him.

Whilst far from impartial (or well researched) it is a public document/analysis of events (again hinting at a publishing industry of some sort) and an indicator that the Imperium surivves at LEAST a century past the 42nd Millenium.
I'd rather think the Administratum, Ecclesiarchy, Munitorum and Inquisiton would join hands to prevent any well-researched account from EVER being widely disseminated.
Another amberley subscript. BUT CHARGING ALWAYS WORKS!
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I find this quote interesting not so much that we have a diplomatic corps maintained by the Imperium (as I noted before), but rather that their role seems to encompass more than simply dealing with aliens. Apparently they need diplomats to deal with its own internal dynamics as well (at least with people like Space Marines.) which adds a 'mediator' dimension to the Imperial diplomatic corps. And it sorta makes sense - we know from the LAthe Worlds that some AdMech maintain Magos whose role is primarily to act as envoys and interpreaters betwene the AdMech and the rest of the Imperium.
Well, yeah. Chaos is the only faction that has more trouble than the Imperium getting everyone on the same page and facing the same direction. Even Orks have an easier time of it, they can at least blugeon their rivals into submission and be done with it. Frankly, the Imperium is a collection of over a million tiny squabbling fiefs. You have epic, generations-spanning turf wars between the Administratum and the Ecclesiarchy, the Mechanicus keeping secrets and poking archaeotech and Tyranids with sticks, every noble family on every world looking out for their best interests, and the Arbites trying to enforce the law where everyone else prefers to handle their problems in-house. Even the Inquisition, normally the one group that can cut through the crap, has the normal range of internal politics from mouth-frothing conservative to even-more-derranged radical. The various factions of the Imperium absolutely need diplomats to interact with each other.

This is, as mentioned, a large part of the role Cain plays. He's part of the Guard, which gets him a good excuse not to know or care about local politics, but isn't part of the command structure, so he can twist the ears of generals. His reputation opens doors and forces people who wouldn't otherwise know what to do with a commissar to respect him, and as the series progresses his unwillingness to offend without a very good reason earns him a reputation for being honest, fair and honorable.
I took this as a reference to the Richard Sharpe series, since its the context in which I am most familiar with the song, but some online searching shows it actually predated that considerably. You learn something new every day. In any case its a reference of one kind or another, which is kinda neat.
Cain's full of them. At one point Amberly references a stay on void-station Delta Sigma Novum. :lol:
Cain believes that the tau's 'open door' policies can leave it (and the Imperium) vulnerable to manipulation by Chaos. Part of it is bound to be reactionary 'OH NO FREEDOM' BS, I'll admit, but we've also seen how naieve the tau can be about 'mystic' stuff - the entire Fire Warrior novel was based on that after all, and their exposure to Chaos and the like is bound to have been limited. We might attribute this reasoning to the purported 'threat' of the tau (eg being linked as a gateway to Chaos more or less) but even then I'd consider it more hysteria-laden nonsense than a serious threat.
[/quote]

I hadn't thought of it quite like that. I remember in Savage Scars (SM book about the Damocles Gulf Crusade) the commissars suppressed any word of the Tau's egalitarian philosophy, fearing mass defection.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Simon_Jester »

Ahriman238 wrote:Anyone ever wonder how there are so many Commissar heroes? Yarrick, Gaunt and Cain?
Probably because it's often the commissar's job to show heroic leadership. And since commissars (except Gaunt) don't actually have direct command as such, working through generals and colonels and captains instead, it's easier to portray them going off and doing their own thing, they're not welded to a command post all the time.

So they're there to provide heroic frontline leadership, which makes stories about them interesting.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Part 2 of For the Emperor. Damn, I thought I'd posted this all at once. Oh well. :P




Page 141
The wind of our passage ruffled her hair, the window wide open. Well, why not? The glass wasn’t going to stop a las-bolt anyway...
Important later.


Page 141
..the xenoists recognised our truck as an Imperial military model and began to shout abuse.
...
The squad of troopers in the cargo space behind us...
Imperial-style military truck with capacity to carry at least 10 troops, albeit in an open compartment. Plus all the Tau dignitaries (at least two or three.


Page 143
Kasteen was guiding Jurgen with the aid of the tactical net, hoping to avoid the worst of the trouble.
Interesting comment. Part of me think its some sort of GPS/navigational function on the IG tac-net (we know it can transmit more than just audio data as per the Munitorum manual, Gaunt's Ghosts, etc.) but its also possible its just some guy on the other end of the vox with a map giving directions. In context, this novel and the third refer to the tactical net as being part of the regiment's vox network, although in Caves of Ice we learn that starship sensors (and other sensor platforms normally) would also be tied into the tactical net providing data, which lends credence to the former notion.


Page 143
They wore plain fatigues, of a colour I couldn’t quite identify in the yellowish glow, but which looked grey or blue, and light flak armour of an even darker shade..
PDF troops. Note the use of light flak, implying heavier varieties exist.


Page 144
But then no one in the PDF ever really expects to go into combat, unless they make the grade the next time the Guard come recruiting..
Cain's comments on PDF recruitment. The fact its 'recruitment' rather than conscription is amusing, although I expect the Guard would prefer voluntary recruits rather than forcibly taken. Also it reflects on the quality of troopers recruited/conscripted into the Guard, usually.

Page 146
I’d got so used to being around Guardsmen, who accepted my authority without question, that it never even occurred to me that the young lieutenant wouldn’t back down. But I’d reckoned without the PDF’s relative lack of discipline, and the fact that to them a commissar was just another officer in a fancy hat.
We've known of some PDF forces with commissars or at least analogues (Necropolis for example) but this may reflect the differences in role between different Segmentae or even sectors.

In a larger context, this scene involves Cain basically shooting the PDF recruits (young ones at that) because they refuse to follow Cain's orders. It's a potent reminder that as lighthearted and even silly as the Cain series can be, the guy is still a Commissar and there is a hard, even brutal edge to him and to the stories. Indeed, I would even go so far to say that the Cain novels are even more dramatic or 'dark' for the contrasting extremes - you don't really expect nasty shit in a Cain novel, but its there if you look carefully, and that's what makes it one of the better 40K things.

At the same time, its not pointless grimdark, because Cain is knowingly doing his duty, and regretting it all the while. He's still a human behind the mask even if he is a commissar, and thats what elevates him above the caricatures of the games (something he often makes fun of.)



Page 147
Even as I spoke I was levelling the laspistol. The lieutenant’s eyes widened for a fraction of a second as he began to turn back to us, the glint of vindictive triumph giving way to a momentary panic, and then half his face was gone as I squeezed the trigger.
Cain blows away the PDF officer's face. As I alluded to above, this is one of those Sandy Mitchell 'Hardcore' scenes that reminds us that Cain is in a 40K novel, and despite the lighthearted tone it can be quite dark if it wants to be, and works far better than most novels for the contrast.

Cain even goes on to mention that he's shot countless people and aliens without regret (usually because its them or me.) He's not totally comfortable with deliberate murder, even though its within his rights. I think its that humane aspect which elevates him to an 'exceptional' commissar, rather than a regular old one. Indeed, its less the 'manipulator' angle - all Commissars are manipulators to one degree or another, whether its inspiration/respect or fear they employ - but Cain's added benefit is the human, heroic aspect he brings to it.

Much as with the prior 'face' calc, the numbers are the same (single, maybe double digit kj at least depending on how you look at it.)



Page 148
...the superior marksmanship of the Valhallans blew bloody, self-cauterising craters through heads and body armour. A muffled curse over the vox link told me that one of the troopers had been hit by the ragged return fire, but if she was able to swear like that it couldn’t be all that serious.
...
"Trooper Penlan caught a ricochet. Just minor flash burns."
IG vs PDF. IG lasguns easily penetrate the 'light' flak , while for the Guard a ricochet leaves simply light burns (although whether it hit flak or not, we don't know.) Also note the lasguns cause flash burns, which we know from other sources (most recently 6th edition IG codex.) Note that cauterization does not seem to be total, since there is at least some blood (or the cauterization happens AFTER the hole is made, which may be an indicator of the 'magical' nature of some lasweapons, since most 'reallistic' lasers I've known of are difficult to make cauterize without some sort of heat ray.)

We also get reference to 'bloody, self cauterising' craters through head and flak, we can't calculate the latter, but assuming 10-15 cm of penetrateion through the head, and a 1-2 cm hole and 50-100 J per sq cm 'flash burns' over a 30-95 sq cm surface area we get between 1500-9500 joules for the implied 'cauterization'



Page 152
A couple of rockcrete chunks bounced from the windscreen, leaving small starred impact craters in the armourglass.
The military truck had armourglass windows (40K version of bulletproof glass, I gather). Note the aformention comment that lasfire would penetrate said windows, although we dont know the thickness or properties to say more than that.,


Page 152
To my amazement they complied, falling silent and parting in front of us.
..
..wondered at the degree of influence the tau were able to wield over their supporters and one another.
...
Still a subject of great interest to the Ordo Xenos, although investigation of this phenomenon remains frustratingly difficult.
More comment on Cain and Amberley's additions, reflecting on the Tau's influence with the populations under their control. This has been speculated on elsewhere, but the effect is tangible and its more than just persuasion, although we also know its not psychic.



Page 158
..I made my report to brigade headquarters..
Brigade level forces. We also know of another planet mentioned where they had two divisions earlier. As one earlier codex notes, the IG can use battalion, division, and brigades at need.



Page 163
A commissar, of course, is outside the normal chain of command, so technically I didn’t have to show deference to him or to anyone else, but most of us do our best not to remind the officers around us of the fact. As I like to tell my cadets these days, treat them with respect and they’ll do the same to you.
Cain's comments again reflect the fact that Commissars as a rule (and not just him) are showmen/manipulators/psychologists to some degree or another, although in this context its more with the officers rather than the line troops. Politics is always the ultimate arbiter, even with people with supposedly unlimited authority over others (Commissars, Inquisitors, Arbites, etc...)



Page 165
"Our orders were to reclaim Gravalax for the Imperium, by force of arms if necessary."
...
"However, the sheer size of the tau military presence here changes the situation radically."
"We can still throw them out, my lord general."
...
"We would end up mired in a protracted campaign. Maybe for years," Zyvan cut him off dismissively. "And, to be blunt, I doubt the planet is worth it."

"With respect, lord general, that isn’t your decision to make," the officer persisted. "Our orders are-"

"For me to interpret,"
Its an interesting contrast ot the Taros campaign, isnt it? If Zyvan had been in command there I doubt things would have turned out the way they had with the forces he'd had at their command, and this is actually a highly relevant parallel (scope of forces involved at least, implied importance, etc.)

It also reflects that far away from the central worlds, the people put in charge of forces are left to interpret orders as they best see fit (for good or bad.) In this case its good, as Zyvan is pursuing non-military (diplomatic.) avenues over fighting - which echoes Cain's comments earlier in that same vein, in fact.

It's mentioned that Zyvan took a personal interest in Cain's career later on, which shows that whilst Commissarial authority is technically absolute, politics can alter that.


Page 169
He touched a control stud on the arm of his chair, and the surface of the table lit up from within, proving to be a hololithic display of a size and resolution I’d seldom seen before. If I’d realised...
...
...the image flickered drunkenly in the air before me, finally steadying into decipherability as Zyvan leaned forward and banged the tabletop hard with a clenched fist. He must have spent considerable time with the techpriests, because it functioned perfectly after that, staying sharp and in focus more than half the time.
...
"There’s still fighting going on," I could see a handful of hotspots across the city.
Lord General's hololithic display. In Arcadius terms this is rare, lost technology, which is pretty funny when you consider we're out by the Damocles Gulf (Indeed cain suggests its only notable for its size if anything.) The 'banging hololiths' becomes a running gag in this book and others.

The display is also capable of showing data from other units (PDF, and Guard) - presumably in realitime, as we see it used to keep track of current conflicts within the city.



Page 180
It was by no means unprecedented for a commissar to be given direct command of an adhoc task force when circumstances demanded it, although it was, and is, an extremely rare occurrence. In fact, there is at least one instance on record of a commissar being given overall command of an entire regiment for a period of several years, albeit with the dual rank of colonel to facilitate the paperwork.
I wonder if this is a Ghosts reference?


Page 181
Taking the Chimeras in close was right out, their tracks would be shredded in moments once they entered the rubble,...
The valhallan 597 have at least some Chimeras at this point, but they can't go through artillery-bomb rubble without taking damage.


Page 182
A couple had been to talk to the chaplain, but all in all, they’d held up remarkably well.
The Valhallans have a chaplain, whose role is counselling as well as motivation/zealotry. Not unlike the priest serving alongside the Ghosts.


Page 181
Besides, tanks would have slowed us down, and the key to this operation was speed.
...
"The harder and faster you go in, the better"
The Valhallan 597th know the value of speed.



Page 185-187
The infantry squads were mounted in Chimeras, the two platoon command ones standing out from the rest by virtue of the vox antennae that clustered their upper surfaces.
...
..head of the Sentinel troop, we had all three squadrons with us, which gave us a total of nine walkers.
...
A dozen Chimeras, nine Sentinels, and two Salamanders.
At least part of the Valhallans detachments. At least two Chimera platoons, which is about 1/8-1/10th of the total complment, plus 9 Sentinels, and at least a couple Salamanders.


Page 189
Then I realised it was coming from somewhere ahead of us, inside the line of the PDF cordon marked on the mapslate in front of me.
Cain has a mapslate.


Page 191-192
..another las-bolt caught him in the shoulder.

He fell back, shrieking like a child.

"You’ll be fine," I told him after a cursory glance at the injury. One thing you can say for being shot by a las-bolt is that they cauterise the wound they cause, so at least you won’t bleed to death from a glancing hit, a fact that has saved my own miserable life on a couple of occasions.
...
"I don’t know! Emperor’s blood, it hurts."
Glancing laswound cauterizes, although its debatable whether full on hits do. Its also painful, suggesting that (at least with glancing wounds) its not a particularily serious one (third degree, and I think more serious second degree, destroy the nerves usually.)


Page 193
Unlike the Imperial Guard units Cain was used to fighting with, most Planetary Defence Force troopers on Gravalax weren’t equipped with personal combeads. This lack of contact between individuals outside line of sight of one another partially accounts for the relative lack of co-ordination within a squad, which most Guard veterans disparagingly attributed to poor levels of training and discipline. Of course, most PDF units were inferior to them in this regard, in any case.
Comment again on PDF vs IG training as well as equipping. Cain is used to Ig units with comm beads, suggesting they might be common in some form or another in his region of space. Most (but not all) PDF forces do not have them in this region, although we know of cases where this isn't so (such as in the FFG RPGs.) Also a reflection of the benefits of comm beads in IG tactics.



Page 194
I could see the sparks of muzzle flashes inside the building, and the puff of vaporising rockcrete where other bolts were impacting around the upper windows.
Assuming it vaporizes a 5-20 mm hole (roughly the known diameters of lasguns) in silicon with a single pulse would require at least ~920 joules for a 5mm spot size vaporized. If its 2 cm ~59 kilojoules. In 'blaster' style las terms, a 5mm 900 joule pulse leads to a 2.2 cm deep, 4.4 cm diameter hole in concrete, whilst a 59 kj, 2 cm diameter laspulse would be ~18 cm across and 9 cm deep. Impressive as the latter is, I suspect if these numbers were valid the former is more likely as far as 'blasters' go. If its double digit kj its probably bound to be less efficient.


Page 199
...Jurgen swung the Salamander round, stopping us almost dead. There were five of them, running for their lives,...
Cain saving an Inquisitor's life (guess who!) Indication that the Salamander can carry at least 4-5 people in addition to Cain and Jurgen (although one of them dies before reaching the vehicle so four only is confirmed.


Page 200
..Rakel, whose green dress was now heavily stained with blood, apparently from a chest wound..
We learn later from Amberley she took a lasbolt to the gut, which indicates lasgun wounds can bleed. Whether its a different setting, a different pattern/style, a modification to the weapon, or a reflection that some (at least PDF lasguns) may not completely cauterize - we don't exactly know. Heck the ideas may not even be mutually exclusive.


Page 201
Orelius took a las-bolt to the shoulder, dropping his handgun.
Which suggests he took muscle and/or bone damage, enough that the entire arm was not working properly. We see this confirmed shortly anyhow.


Page 206
Third Platoon was supported by First Sentinel Squadron on the left flank, Fifth Platoon by Second Squadron on the right, leaving Third Squadron with the company command element as a mobile reserve.
Deployment of the Guard forces as outlined before. Note the implied mobility :P


Page 207
Extracted from Like a Phoenix From the Flames: The Founding of the 597th, by General Jenit Sulla (retired), 097.M42.
Again nearly a century past the 42nd Millenium, and Sulla is still alive. And a published author. Given that the date of the conflict is 931.M41 we're talking about a woman who has lived for nearly 200 years.


PAge 209
A quick study of the tactical slate in the Chimera had shown me that I had an unengaged squad sufficiently close to the most distant of the enemy positions to flank it..
Whether the slate is a piece of equipment mounted inside the Chimera, or if its a hand held dataslate with tactical functions, we dont know. but like the hololith it shows the layout and disposition of forces in the battle, indicating that the Chimera (or the tactical slate) is receiving more than audio transmissions from the Guard units under Sulla's command.


Page 213-214
I indicated Orelius, who had taken out a medkit and was tending to Rakel as best he could with a damaged arm.
Again, the Rogue Trader's injury was to his shoulder, but it apparently inhibited the function/mobility of the whole arm (which again is why he dropped the gun...)



Page 216
..the assessors at the Schola Progenium decided I was commissarial material, and that was that.
...
A decision which, on the face of it, seems remarkably perverse, given Cain’s manifest character flaws. However, it’s a decision his subsequent career triumphantly vindicates. We can only speculate how he would have fared if directed into some other branch of Imperial service, such as the Navy, or, Emperor help us, the Arbites.
Again, its interesting that Cain, an admited manipulator, self serving coward, and general all-around fraud, was assessed as being ideal Commissar material. That tends to suggest once again that Commissars are at their best when they are psychological and manipulators, which is borne out by all the Commissars we've seen in other novels. Except perhaps for Gaunt.


Page 218 - I won't quote the scene, but the little private conversation between Amberley and Cain really sets the scene for their future relationship, and is definitely one of the high points of the novel. You have two people from backgrounds that require public faces that may be vastly different from their personalities - two individuals who are for all intents and purposes expert manipulators and liars. And yet they form a very human bond which remains one of hte high points of the story. At least, for me it does, because Cain and Amberley both do a good job of bucking their respective stereotypes whilst retaining the essential 'dark' of 40K.


Page 222
"The Damocles Gulf."
...
She pointed out the Gravalax system, seemingly alone and isolated on the fringes of Imperial space.
...
"We’re close to the tau border."
...
Several of the neighbouring systems were tagged with blue icons, marking them as tau-held worlds. In fact they almost engulfed our present position, with only a thin chain of friendly yellow beacons connecting us to the welcoming haven of Imperial space.
...
"’If we had to fight a war here, our supply lines would be far too thin for comfort."
...

"Precisely." Zyvan nodded approval, and indicated a couple of choke points. "They could cut us off here, and here with no trouble at all. We’d be blockaded and swallowed up in months. While they could reinforce at their leisure from at least four systems."

"Which is why we’re so desperate to avoid a full-scale war over this miserable mudball," Amberley said. "Keeping it would tie up our naval assets from at least three sectors just to secure our supply lines, and we’d be funnelling Guard and Astartes units in from all over the Segmentum. Putting it bluntly, it’s not worth the effort."
Gravalax's location in the Imperium and the overall military situation. Basically the tau have the advantage (surprise surprise) and the Imperials have a tenuous logistic chain supporting them (Again big shocker.) The interesting thing is how this once again contrasts so sharply with TAros. I mean the situations are very similar (small force at a disadvantage, unreliabile logistics, etc.) and yet Zyvan is demonstrating himself to be far more competent than any of the Taros officers.

An interesting speculation about this whole conflict is that the tau might very well be using Gravalax as bait or a distraction.. .keeping the Imperials occupied with an otherwise minor planet whilst they operate elsewhere (militarily or diplomatically). Of course Amberley (and obviously Zyvan) aren't falling for the biat, again demonstrating they have more brain cells individually than the entire Taros Campaign staff collectively.

It also makes a mockery of that whole 'NEARLY LIMITLESS MANPOWER' BS you hear spouted as IG propoganda. Indeed, both Inquisitor and Lord General, Cain notes, seem willing to let the tau have the planet rather than waste the resources to take it simply for symbolic reasons. Note this does not mean they're willing to just roll over and let the tau win, since that would simply encourage them, they just prefer alternate means to a wasteful military conflict, as we learn.



Page 223-224
"’But we could beat them in the long run," I said, trying not to picture the decades of grinding attrition that would ensue as the overwhelming might of the Imperium met the technosorcery of the tau. It would be the biggest bloodbath since the Sabbat Worlds crusade.

"We could. Eventually."
But but but.. the CODEX. ATTRITION WARFARE! Again Lord General and Inquisitor are not idiots, and they know when the situation goes against them, which makes them smarter than some of the more sillier Forge World campaigns. Its interesting that Cain considers that defeating the tau would encompass the same scale as the Sabbat Worlds Crusade - which basically means a sector-scale conflict involving thousands of ships and billions of troops. Which perhaps gives you an appreciation of the sum total of Tau military strength potentially, even if we assume numerical superiority on the Imperial side (again ATTRITION.)

Bear in midn this once again reinforces also that not all IG officers are attrition-happy morons, no matter what the codexes or rulebooksmay say.

Amberley goes on to note that, once again. the threat of Tyranids grossly outweighs the tau, which is hardly a surprise. (lucky tau.) The Necrons also get mentioned as a currently rising threat, although Amberley gets rather annoyed when Cain and the others go on talking about the Necrons, suggesting the Ordo Xenos is trying its damndest to keep a lid on things.



Page 225
"’A two hundred and seventy-three per cent increase in probable necron contact over the last century," he said. "Only twenty-eight per cent fully confirmed, however."
They've known about the Necrons for over a century, and details are still sketchy.


Page 228
...up until this point it had never occurred to me that there wasn’t an under-city - part and parcel of growing up in a hive, I suppose. You see, most imperial cities are millennia old, each generation building on the remains of the last, leaving a warren of service tunnels and abandoned rooms under the latest level of streets and buildings, often tens, or even hundreds, of metres thick. Mayoh, being so sparsely populated in imperial terms, didn’t have anything like so thick a layer beneath it, but I’d just taken it for granted that it was bound to have the same labyrinth of sewers and walkways below its citizens’ feet as any other urban area I was familiar with.
A bit of commentary on Imperial architecture and urban construction. The chiefly interesting thing is how Cain's description sounds very much like an Imperial Hive as described in other sources (new layers building atop old layers.) Cain's comments could even be taken as further reinforcement of the 'hive-like' nature of most Imperial construction. Of course, given that hive worlds have often been described as arising as a result of all other 'types' of worlds (EG civilised, industrial, etc.) that 'grow' into hive worlds, this is not terribly surprising either,

By extension, this would suggest that a good many worlds are 'hive' worlds. although it would also lean more towards the FFG/novel interpreations of 'hives' more than the 'traditional' one (EG Necromunda or Armageddon style, which would remain relatively rarer.) Still given (for example) the 'billions of hive worlds' comments, this does help make sense of things.

I have to note that this is representative of yet another of those facets of the Cain series - between the glimpses of the urban and civilian life, refrences to popular fiction and TV shows, etc. They're all nice little bits that contribute to the overall suspension of disbelief and help flesh out the universe in a way that is easier for us to relate to despite the GRIMDARK. Indeed, my belief is that the contrast between the grimdark and things we might recognize or be comfortable with heightens the dark by the contrast.



Page 234
Despite my best efforts to arrange their transfer to a penal legion, the Munitorium was proving as slow and obstructive as usual, and didn’t seem the least bit inclined to send a ship all the way out here just to pick up a handful of cannon fodder. Normally, that wouldn’t have been a problem, I’d simply have found space on the next outbound freighter or something, but Gravalax wasn’t exactly the hub of the Segmentum, and even what little shipping there normally was had almost dried up as the political situation deteriorated.
..
..it looked as though we were going to be stuck with the five defaulters until we returned to Imperial space,
comment on the economic (un) importanc of Gravalax, which represents one of those worlds that remains largely outside of Imperial control or contact for long periods of time.

It's also interesting how Cain's comments would seem to imply Gravalax is not apart of 'official' Imperial space.


Page 240
Maybe I could get them transferred to another command, or assigned somewhere relatively harmless after she’d gone. The local PDF could certainly use a professional training cadre to bring them up to scratch once this mess was sorted out..
Some units (or parts of units) get assigned as 'training cadres' to PDFs. Good purpose for garrison regiments rotated out of frontline duty, or depleted regiments. Not sure its something you'd want to do with some of the more idiotic regiments.



Page 243
Five bundles of kit were waiting for them, each one wrapped in a carapace vest with a name stencilled on it..
..
"It fits. Quartermaster must be slipping." It was an axiom among the Guard that kit only came in two sizes - too large and too small.
"I had a word with him."
Carapace vests requisitioned from Valhallan stores. Also a less than flattering comment about IG logistics :P



Page 244
"Hellguns. Shady!"
...
As a regular line trooper, she was only used to handling a standard-issue lasgun, the more powerful variant normally being reserved for stormtroopers and other special forces.
...
..snapping a powercell home with practiced precision.
...
..Amberley had suggested I replace my battered old laspistol with the handgun version of the heavier weapon.
Inquisitorial authority managed to requieisiton hellweapons from the Valhallan quartermaster as well, although these seem to run on a powerpack. Interesting how its implied that not just storm troopers use them. Other 'special forces' might include examples like grenadier and/or drop troop regiments - we do know the Elysians had at least limited hellgun use as a special weapon for example.


Page 244
I’d grabbed a set of the body armour, though, and wore it now, concealed beneath my uniform greatcoat. It felt a little heavy and uncomfortable, but a lot less so than taking a las-bolt to the chest.
Implying carapace vests can stop lasbolts



Page 245
Sorel sighted along the length of his long-las, and made a minute adjustment to the targeter.
...
..knowing that a sniper gets as attached to his weapon as I was to my old pistol, and that he would have customised it in a dozen subtle ways to improve its accuracy.
Targeter on long las. Also weapon customization, which is technically violating munitorum regulations.


Page 246
..discarding a couple of ration bars to make room for them.
..
"Better stock up with carbohydrates while you can. You’ll be burning a lot of energy soon enough."
...
She sniffed at the grey fibrous mass, and bit into it cautiously.
IG ration bars, still the finest cuisine that doesn't involve corpse starch.


Page 249
..I subvocalised, switching to the channel Amberley had given me earlier. I hadn’t seen any sign of a bead in her ear, but that didn’t surprise me. For all I knew, she’d disguised it in some way, or was stuffed with augmetics that did the same job.
Subvocalized comm beads and various comments on augmetics. The funny thing is its implied Amberley might actually have some augmetics.


Page 252-253
The driver’s volley of profanity was drowned out by a sudden thunderclap of displaced air as something hit the front of an omnibus right where we’d been a moment before, reducing its entire nose to metallic confetti before raking the length of it, blowing a tangled mass of wreckage, blood and bone out of the back. Before I could see anything more, we were behind the shelter of a building, our hurtling metallic shell gouging lumps out of the walls, our tracks leaving a trail of burst and flattened waste containers in our wake.
...
"Sounds like a railgun.."
...
"Even at that range it could have gutted us like a fish."
Effect of Tau batltesuit railgun.


Page 261
He scrambled up it, worming his way into a gap between the chunks of masonry, and froze, scanning the rubble around us through his magnifying sight.
Sorel's long-las described as having a magnifying sight, which is also its targeter.



Page 262
He had a hellgun like the others, but it was slung across his shoulders. In his hands was the unmistakable bulk of a meltagun, a heavy thermal weapon normally used to give tanks a hard time in close terrain, which was about the only time you stood a chance of getting near enough to use one without being spread across the landscape. Emperor alone knew where he’d got it from,..
Jurgen begins his long relationship with his trusty meltagun. It's worth noting Cain's comments suggest such weapons are uncommon amongst the Valhallans....


Page 264
What looked like a maintenance hatch of some kind had been revealed, bent and twisted by the heat and the pounding it had received from the falling rubble.
...
Kelp nodded, grasped the handle, and pulled, every one of his overdeveloped muscles standing out as he strained against it. After a moment he gasped and let go.

"We’ll need a demo charge to shift that."
Maintenance hatch, on the ground (as we learn) Implied that a demo charge would be needeed to remove it.



Page 264
Jurgen took a step forward, and aimed the melta at it. Kelp and Sorel scrambled back with almost indecent haste...
...
"We just want the hatch open, not the whole building down."
Meltaguns are overkill for this purpose :P



Page 264
"Velade, Holenbi, front and centre. Five rounds rapid." The twisted metal flashed into vapour under the combined power of the hellgun volley...
...
..staring down into the darkened hole which had opened up at our feet. I aimed my trusty pistol at it, but it was a pointless precaution, anyone waiting in ambush would have been vaporised along with the inspection panel, and anyone outside the hellguns’ area of effect would have been shooting back by now.
My original calcs for this were total vaporization based on a literal interpretation of this scene (like I do with most cain shit, EG the CAves of Ice meltagun) Some people get positively outraged at that because of their own particular views of how energy weapons work, but its hilarious in those 'square peg in round hole' ways. That said, I'll take a less literal approach to the scene as well as the literal.

Assuming a 20-30 kg door and a 70 kg human vaporized, we're talking some 150-200 MJ for the human vaping, and 150-225 MJ for the estimated manhole. Call it 300-400 MJ by that benchmark, which is double digit MJ for 10 shots (5 shots per man.)

Assuming it merely melts through the manhole cover (and ignore the effect on the man) we get 'only' 24-36 MJ, or about 2-4 MJ per shot 'only'.

But if we take it less literally (despit ethe reference to 'vapour' - lets say its just blown to really fine particulate matter.) and the human blows paart. We can figure it out one of several ways.

For one thing blowing apart a human, as per bolter calc is worth roughly one grenade or stick of TNT - or about a megajoule. Alternately, we could use the 400 j per sq cm 'steam explosion flaying flesh from skin' calcs which would give maybe 4-8 MJ (depending on if just one side, or both sides get flayed, and even then its still a little conservative.) Ignoring the manhole cover for a second.. we could figure at least high double digit kj to low triple digit kj, whilst the 'flaying' calcs go into very high kj (possibly even low MJ!)

Assuming you use TNT to blast through the cover, we might figure at least half a kilo to several kilos of TNT at least (just doing an estimate from ADC or Mike's explosives data page) which again is single digit MJ, and thus tripel digit kj. Combine both person vaped and grating vaped and the yields are even greater.

Lastly we can play around with Luke Campbell's death ray calculator. Assuming a 30-40 cm diamter cover (wide enough to let a person though) and each bolt puts a 10 cm diamter hole through the grate each bolt would contribute perhaps a few hundred kj or so. For 'exploding' a person (depending on how many people, how many shots, and how big a hole you assume) we might figure between 25-100 kj (depends on size of hole greatly.) So at worst we'd be going double if not triple digit kj again for hellguns, per shot.

For a reference point Someone had likened the cover to this which in all honesty is a glorified manhole cover, and fits just as well as naything else.

It goes without saying that lasguns are, by fluff 2-4 times less powerful than hellguns, so if we know the hellgun's firepower we can approximate lasgun firepower (in this case double digit kj per shot quite likely.)



Page 272
Valhalla has its cavern cities, of course, but they’re quite different to the average hive, with wide open spaces under well-lit roofs of rock and ice.
Valhalla implied to be a sort of Hive world



Page 274
"Rakel was having some kind of seizure, and then she took a las-bolt to the stomach."
Which is peculiar given that before she ws bleeding from the chest, but Cain could have been confused about the exact location (lower chest/upper abdomen maybe.)


Page 275-276
The wounds were too heavy for lasguns, even the hellguns we carried. I’d heard them being fired though, I was sure about that.
...
"It looks like plasma rounds to me."
...
The doubt in his voice told me how unlikely he thought it, though, plasma weapons were big, bulky, and unreliable, and took an age to recharge between shots. You’d have to be mad to arm an entire squad with them.
...
"Plasma pistols, maybe?"
...
Those were even rarer, but suppose someone had found a whole cache of them from the fabled Dark Age of Technology?
Unsurprisingly, hellguns and lasguns are less powerful than plasma weapons. Their effects/wounds are distinctive too. It goes without saying that these aren't Imperial weapons, they're tau plasma weapons. (possibly pulse weapons.)

Plasma pistols and guns seem to be different though in some fashion - power, reliability, or whatever.



Page 276-277
"I’ve got movement!’"
...

Amberley was looking at that bloody auspex again, and the screen was still blank. "I’m getting no human lifesigns at all."

"What about abhuman ones?" I asked, and she shrugged.

"It’s only calibrated for..."
Auspex scanner for lifeforms or bio signs - human ones at least.


Page 282
"Tell that to the PDF!" someone shouts. "Or the civilians they’re butchering!" Donali stares him down.

"They recognise the distinction between us and the local militia," he says. "By their logic, the PDF attacked them first, so they’re fair game, and the civilians merely collateral damage. They can be persuaded that it’s in everyone’s interests to back off, I’m sure."

...

"Tau psychology is very peculiar by human standards. They crave stability, and are terrified at the prospect of any loss of order. In fact, it would be no exaggeration to say that, for them, it’s as disturbing as we would find an eruption of Chaos"


Tau psychology and their view of Gravalax civilians. FOR THE GREATER GOOD.


Page 286
..I decided to stay put behind the nice solid piece of piping I’d found.
..
These were plasma weapons we were facing and even the heavy body armour we were wearing would be all but useless against it.
..
A bolt of incandescent energy burst against the metal piping close to my head, just missing my face with a spray of molten metal
Plasma weapon strikes near Cain's cover. Presumably it strikes on the side or front, although it has apparently more thermal with minimal mechanical/blast effect in this case. These are, of course, tau plasma weapons once again.


Page 288
To understand an enemy, you have to understand how they think, and language, according to the magos of the Ordo Diologus, shapes perception. Accordingly, many inquisitors of the Ordo Xenos take the time to learn the languages of the species they expect to encounter in the course of their duties. Without wishing to appear immodest, I can claim reasonable fluency in the most common forms of the tau and eldar tongues, and communicate quite effectively in orkish (which is not that impressive an accomplishment, to be honest, as this particular ’’language’’ consists largely of gestures and blows to the head.)
Amberley comments on language, xenos language in particular. Aside from the amusing comments about Ork Languages, we learn about the 'Ordo Dialogus' which I presume to be some parallel to the Sororitas order of the same name, perhaps tied to the AdMech, or perhaps to a number of organizations.



Page 292
Although kroot mercenaries are generally associated with the tau, and their homeworld appears to be a tau fiefdom, there have been sufficient reports of kroot fighting alongside other races to raise the possibility that they may not be quite so faithful servants as their patrons appear to believe. It’s not entirely beyond the bounds of possibility that this particular one found employment on a backwater human world somewhere, or, more likely, had been part of a temporary alliance with Imperial forces against a mutual foe
Amberley again about Kroot mercs.



Page 292
Generally rendered into Gothic as ’’pathfinders’’, these are reconnaissance specialists roughly equivalent to Imperial Guard storm-troopers or the forward observers normally attached to an artillery battery.
I'd actually say that Pathfinders are more akin to light infantry like Gaunt's Ghosts or other scout/recon forces, rather than the heavily armed and armoured storm troopers.



Page 295
"I’d rather have those plasma guns on our side than shooting at us." Now I came to look at one close up they were surprisingly compact, no larger than a lasgun, but the amount of firepower they could put out wasn’t to be sniffed at.
Pathfinders, so they have pulse carbines. As compact as lasguns but more powerful



Page 297
..the tau appearing to have some way of seeing in the dark. They certainly had no visible luminators, so I assumed the lenses on the front of their helmets enabled them to see in some way I couldn’t quite comprehend.
Given what we know of tau tech, this is quite likely true.



Page 304
As I led my platoon to our Chimeras, I could see the whole regiment lined up and battle-ready for the first time, and a sight to stir the blood it truly was. Dozens of engines rumbled, and our sentinels formed up alongside us.
It does seem likely that the whole regiment, or at least more than a quarter of it, is mechanized.


Page 306
For the most part, however, they seemed content to watch us through the eyes of their aerial pictcasters, which floated like flying plates above the rooftops or flitted around our vehicles like flies around grox.
Tau aerial surveillance. The notable thing is that Sulla (the Valhallan speaking) recognized them for what they were, suggesting she has some familiarity iwth similar devices (Servo skulls perhaps.) presumably used in Imperial serivce We know that the Damocles Gulf crusade used recon drones of some sort, after all.


PAge 307
The tau took the lead again, which was fine by me, as whatever sensor gear they had inside those odd-shaped helmets of theirs seemed a good deal more reliable than Amberley’s auspex. She’d consulted it a few more times since it had failed to detect our alien companions..
Cain believes Amberley's auspex is inferior ot whatever systems the tau have in their helmets (possibly a lifeform sensor of some kind, given the context. Of course we know Amberleys was configured to detect human lifeforms, so its possible the limitations stem fromthat. Maybe the tau's were calibrated for a more diverse set of readings.)


Page 310-311
"He says he’s picking up life forms ahead, in large quantities," Gorok said quietly, translating the flickering finger signs. The tau all had voxcasters and Emperor knew what else built into their helmets, but their kroot allies had no such aids to communication, and, I was beginning to suspect, would have spurned them if they’d been offered anyway. So they used this peculiar semaphore to pass orders and information silently, in much the same way that Guard units did when the troopers didn’t have individual combeads, or the enemy was so close they might have overheard a verbal transmission.

"How large?" Amberley whispered, taking a final look at the screen of the auspex, which, for once, actually seemed to be displaying some life signs that weren’t ours or the six troopers with us.
We learn again that pathfinders (probably) have some sort of lifeform sensors, and that both Imperial Guard and Tau units use non-verbal hand signals in specific situations, for broadly the same reasons (either one force or another has't got comms, or they can't risk using them in certian situations.)


Page 314
..scanning the chamber through the magnifying optics of his sniper scope.
Again long las has 'magnifying' optics as part of its targeter.


Page 314
In these individuals the taint of the alien was obvious, their skin hardened almost to armour, their jaws wide and filled with fangs, a few sprouted extra limbs, tipped with razor-sharp claws.
Genestealer hybrids. Note the implied durability of their skin, assuming this isn't Cain hyperbole.


Page 317
..raising the long-las and sighting carefully in the direction of the sound. "And this thing’s silenced."
Long las are silenced (somehow) although I doubt it does anything for the visible beam which is liable to give their position away too.


Page 317
"The tau were unaware of this ability of the creatures you call genestealers."
...
"They knew them only as a warrior form of the tyranid overmind..."
The tau did not know of the infiltration and implantation nature of genestealers.
This may (as we learn) cause them problems in the future. Oddly the Kroot do not seem ot know about this either, as they shortly break cover and attack the Genestealers under the mistaken belieft htat possession of Kroot DNA allows them to corrupt without contact, or something. This random attack surprises the tau as well, leading to much hilarity (for the Greater Good)


Page 321
A ragged volley of las-bolts and autogun fire thundered in reply, and one of the tau went down, his armour shredded by multiple impacts.
unknown quantity of autogun/lasfire from Genestealer hybrids downs a pathfinder.


Page 323
..he raised the melta before falling back. The blast of superheated air roared against my face, vaporising the oncoming stealer and chewing a chunk out of the front few ranks.
Melta vapes stealer. ASsuming its literal, we're talking hundreds of MJ to several GJ (given a 300 or so kilo mass for stealers. Assuming its figurative? a 1.9 m (as per IA4) 'stealer about half a metre across would be worth nearly 20,000 sq cm, and at 400 j per sq cm (flaying from steam explosion, remember) you get 8 MJ at least. And thats just for one side, the actual value would be several times that. Nevermind what it does to other creatures.


Page 324
I felt a sudden blow against my chest. I glanced down, a las-bolt had impacted against the borrowed armour beneath my greatcoat, and I blessed the foresight that had impelled me to requisition it.
The carapace Cain requisitioned protects him against a las-bolt.


Page 324
The explosive bolts detonated inside their chitinous shells, blowing their thoraxes to bloody mist.
Bolt pistol wielded by Amberley vs Genestealer purestrains.


Page 331-332
He raised the hellgun, aiming it at my chest. Incredibly, he still didn’t seem to realise that I’d concealed armour there, or he’d have gone for a head shot I’m sure.
Implies IG carapace can resist hellgun fire.


Page 332
The expression on Kelp’s face was almost comical for the half-second or so that he still had one, then he exploded into a small pile of gently steaming offal. I turned to my aide, who was lowering the melta...
Melta boils/blows apart a carapace-armoued human. Given cain is a few meters away, its unliekly this is very.. explosive. Again if we go with flaying calcs at least, we're talking single digit MJ at a minimum, (8 MJ for both sides at least), whilst if the body is mostly, say... boiled (70 kg human at 268 kj per kg) you're looking at maybe 19-20 MJ at least.



Page 336
One young woman, who might have been attractive if it wasn’t for the third arm growing from her right shoulder blade,...
...
...levelled the heavy stubber cradled in her other two hands.
Genestealer hybrid hefting a heavy stubber unaided.



Page 336
Sorel punched a hole through her head with his usual unerring accuracy.
heavy stubber girl got holed through the head. not exploding.



Page 337-338
...her torso armour was scored with las-bolt impacts. Whatever crimes she’d committed aboard the Righteous Wrath, she’d more than atoned for, and the flush of satisfaction I felt at this vindication...
...
Abruptly Trebeck took a bolt to the chest, the explosive tip bursting through her ribcage, spattering the wall next to her with viscera.
Carapace fends off multiple lasbolt impacts, but penetrated by a bolt round. Also, as an aside, this is another one of those 'suddenly grim' situations - one minute Cain is feelig optimistic about things, and then something horrible happens. Poor Trebeck.



Page 339
..a large hole appeared instantly, about a metre across. The wall there was barely the width of my forearm, and I dived through before the sides had even had a chance to cool.

Jurgen blasts a hole thorugh a (brick, presumably) wall. maybe 10-15 cm thick, and a meter across (and maybe 2 m tall.) Its not exactly molten, but I dont think it blows apart either. Assuming a 1000K temp increase for common brick which is 900-1000 joules per kg*K we get between 600-700 kj per kg Brick has a density somewher ebetween 1400-2400 kg*m^3 so I'll split the difference at 1900 kg*m^3. call it 380-570 kg of brick affected, for betwen 228-399 MJ. As an order of magnitude figure, call it double to triple digit MJ, possibly higher.


Page 340
"Displacer field. If I take a strong enough hit, it teleports me out of the way." She shrugged. "Most of the time, anyway."
Displacer field. Seems to teleport within a few metres (3-4) of original destination.



Page 345
..a krak missile detonated against the hull of one of the Chimeras ahead of us.
...
It evidently failed to penetrate..
...
..as a number of other missiles followed it...
...
Inevitably, some found their mark, penetrating armour and shattering tracks, bringing several of our Chimeras to a halt..
Chimera vs krak missiles. Seems to be rather resilient, all told.


PAge 345-346
..a glance at my tactical slate was enough to tell me that this was a well-planned operation..
...
Without further thought I dropped back inside the Chimera, where the specialised sensoria and vox equipment would let me direct my subordinates to greater effect..
A bit more on the detection and command and control gear of Command Chimeras at the platoon level. Sensor gear, a tactical slate (which apparently can be read or carried up into the
hatch/cupola, since that's where Sulla rode prior ot the Ambush).



Page 351
"The 'stealer cult has obviously been active here for several generations already. Lucky it’s such a backwater, or the contagion might have spread halfway across the sector by now."
several generations to spread across half a sector (some 100 LY radius or thereabouts) Not blisteringly fast by ftl terms, but its pretty expansive for genestealers.


Page 360
..and a head shot for me, blowing the fellow’s brains out through the back of his skull.
Cain's laspistol blows out the bakc of a guy's skull. At least single digit kj, possibly double digit if we factor in burn damage. ASsuming 3rd degree burns along inside of skull (say a hole throught he skull roughly brain-sized, burn-wise we're at between 15-30 kj for example.)



Page 361
The claws I’d seen tear open Terminator armour as though it were a crusty meat pie were already slicing at her cape when its head exploded, showering her with an unpleasant organic residue, and leaving the body to topple to the floor. I looked up at the gallery again and saw Sorel already seeking a fresh target for his long-las.
Long-las explodes a genestealer's head. given that they are many times bigger than a normla human (300 kg as opposed to 60-80 kg for example) Double digit kj easily, quite possibly triple. (of course this also begs the question of whether or not its using a hotshot pack given differeing sources, but this is quite likely, so head-sploding is perhaps not surprising.)



Page 364
..he jammed the barrel of the melta into the wound I’d cut into its belly. As he pulled the trigger, its entire midsection flashed into steam and foul-smelling offal, it staggered back, its eyes glazing, and swung its head in confusion
Genestealer patricarch has its midsection blasted by Melta. We can't calc the internals per volume, but if it was flash burns over the melta's surface area (we knwo from the brick wall a meter by a meter is fair) we can estimate at least single digit MJ again, but its probably more than that.



Page 373
The bolt exploded against the oversized helmet protecting Jurgen’s head, flinging him backwards in a shower of shattered carapace, but thanks to the Emperor, or sheer good fortune, it hadn’t penetrated this time, the sturdy armour protecting him from Sorel’s grisly fate.
Jurgen's carapace (?) helmet survives bolt impact explosion (fails to penetrate) although it pulverizes and concusses him (they mention he might have had a skull fracture for example.) and he's knocked out.



Page 376
The displacer field, as those of you who’ve used one can no doubt attest, will readily teleport you out of immediate danger. Unfortunately, you rematerialise moving at the same speed and in the same direction as when the field activates,..
Momentum is consereved in teleportation.



Page 390
...peculiar little devils that they are, they don’t seem to value the objective of the fighting purely for itself, the way we do. As best as I can understand it, they reckoned that if we were that determined to pitch into a meat grinder war to hang on to this worthless mudball, we might as well have it. They’d go off and do something more productive until we got bored or complacent or distracted, and come back for it later when we couldn’t put up a decent fight for the place.
...
..Tau tacticians tend to take the long view, withdrawing to regroup whenever they meet stronger resistance than they were expecting, or, as in this case, the situation proves to be more complex than anticipated.
Another Cain/Amberley description of tau tactics, in this case WRT Gravalax. It basically fits with their casualty-sensitive mentality and preference to take things by means other than direct or prolonged conflict, but as noted it also means that if you can bluff them into thinking you're determined (and they can't move you off it through one of their vaunted 'doctrines') they won't push. No endurance, for whatever that's worth.




Page 392
"They’re incredibly rare, about as rare among psykers as psykers are compared to the rest of us."
...
"Blanks are like anti-psykers," she explained. "They can’t be affected by psykers or warp entities. They block telepathic communication. You saw how the patriarch reacted to him."
I suppose this is meant to reflect Jurgen being a Pariah or untouchable, although why Amberley doesn't know the term is beyond me. And then there's the implied 'rare among psykers as psykers are' amongst humanity. Taken one way, that means that blanks are one per ten billion (100,000 x 100,000 as per Faith and Fire's psyker/human ratio) to one in a trillion (1 million x 1 million, which is what HH and 2nd edition fluff on psykers said.) which is rarer than the one in a billion ascribed to Pariahs by most other sources. Ont he other hand, if we go with one in a billion this implies there is one psyker for ever 33,000 or so thousand humans.

Given that, its probably better not to read too much into Amberley's comments (except maybe to lean more towards the Faith and Fire version of an increasingly psychic humanity), or perhaps to reflect that Jurgen might be one of those odd 'pariah-like' beings like from the James Swallow novels (psychic beings with some odd untouchable-like abilities, but still pskyers.)



Page 394
...Ordo Malleus fanatics looking for daemon-fodder for their next crusade
Conxtex is Amberley referring to Jurgen as a blank, indicating that the Malleus makes extensive, even profligate, use of pariahs/blanks/untouchables as anti-Daemon weapons. Given their rarity I suspect they must compete with the Assasinorum for recruits, which perhaps explains why Amberley does not want to reveal Jurgen's abilities or bring him directly into her retinue. It migth also explain the value of Eisenhorn's Distaff and his difficulty in replacing it as well.



Page 394-395
"El’sorath still insists that the world is theirs by right, but they’re agreeing to respect the status quo for the time being. I guess they blinked first."
..
"Besides, they’re spooked by the idea of a hive fleet moving in, even if they don’t want to admit it. They’ve had a few skirmishes with splinter fleets in the last couple of centuries, and they’re under no illusions about what a full-scale invasion would mean."
..
"Hanging on to one small planet doesn’t mean much in the face of that, especially if it would weaken their response to the greater threat."
...
"I’m still not entirely sure those pathfinders. You know."
...
"If they were, then at least it’ll draw the hive fleets down on them instead of us a few generations down the line. And in the meantime, we can exploit the chaos in the tau empire for our own ends."
Final discussion of the tau's departuer from Gravalax, and the Tyranid-based motivations behind it. In that light their unwillingness to risk losses taking/keeping the planet is hardly surprising, especially if (as Amberley notes) doing so would weaken them dramatically against the Tyranids (Echoing the comparisons of Taros.) And to make things even more interesting, the implication that they dont know the full threat of genestealers yet again, and the Imperials didn't bother telling them their own people may be infected. Whether the tau figured this out on their own or had troubles (or even can have torubles) with a genestealer brood is up for debate. Its possible - and its also possible their shorter lifespans (40 years compared to 70-100 for a human) makes it worse - we know from Eldar examples their longer lifespans complicate genestealer infestations.
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Agent Sorchus
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Agent Sorchus »

Page 200
Quote:
..Rakel, whose green dress was now heavily stained with blood, apparently from a chest wound..


We learn later from Amberley she took a lasbolt to the gut, which indicates lasgun wounds can bleed. Whether its a different setting, a different pattern/style, a modification to the weapon, or a reflection that some (at least PDF lasguns) may not completely cauterize - we don't exactly know. Heck the ideas may not even be mutually exclusive.
Another possibility is that as a psyker she is potentially more durable than a regular 40k human and or weapons don't work reliably vs them. I seem to remember many times she is unfazed by potential for injury and discomfort so there is evidence of that.
Page 361
Quote:
The claws I’d seen tear open Terminator armour as though it were a crusty meat pie were already slicing at her cape when its head exploded, showering her with an unpleasant organic residue, and leaving the body to topple to the floor. I looked up at the gallery again and saw Sorel already seeking a fresh target for his long-las.


Long-las explodes a genestealer's head. given that they are many times bigger than a normla human (300 kg as opposed to 60-80 kg for example) Double digit kj easily, quite possibly triple. (of course this also begs the question of whether or not its using a hotshot pack given differeing sources, but this is quite likely, so head-sploding is perhaps not surprising.)
I don't think it would be a hotshot round, no mention of reloading just immediately searching for a new target. Less bolt action-y and more of a strong semi-atuo.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Simon_Jester »

Random note: ricochets and lasers penetrating armorglass.

Of course laser weapons would penetrate armored glass. You'd have to get pretty exotic to design a transparent medium that blocks weaponized laser pulses effectively, but allows normal-intensity light to pass through.

"Ricochets" would be reflections off surfaces, especially polished metal ones, but possibly specular reflection of the laser off a normal surface. They could easily be anything from "mild heat rash" to "burns but not as bad as the main beam."
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Its more a comment that lasguns don't always behave like actual lasers. Once we get into the Ghosts series you'll see this alot more, and in context the shots will just penetrate through like a bullet. Sometimes I think authors deliberately try to go the 'lazer bullet' route with this, although some (like James Swallow) seem to go the other way.


Three part update, but each part is relatively small. Plus a short story adn the Bombardment commentary at the end.

Now we get to 'Caves of Ice' - one of the shortest Cain novels made, as well as one of the more 'infamous' ones calc wise. My old thread is covered there, and the old calcs are mostly there. I don't think I've reall redone many of them this time, since I covered most of this before, although I've added lots more clarification commentary (on the bombardment scene) which has evolved over the years resulting from teh discussion (yelling) over various calcs - notably the 'lance strike' and 'meltagun' ones :P
Story wise its pretty straightforward and kinda unexceptional. Cain in an iceworld, fighting orks, and discovering Necrons (pre-5th edition Necrons.)

Page 8
It may be argued that Cain is not the, most reliable chronicler of events, but I am inclined to accept his version of events as absolutely true. Here, as throughout the whole archive, he rarely gives himself credit for what, to any unbiased observer, appear to be acts of genuine courage and resourcefulness..
Cain may exaggerate, but his account can be considered generally reliable. In cases where he does exaggerate or may get details wrong, we have known Amberely to make such corrections in her little subscript notes, so unless contradicted by the Inquisitor, we should probably take them at face value. It's not an absolute, but its better than nothing. I have noted people woh keep insisting Cain should NEVER be treated as reliable, but that's silly unless we have a reason to actually believe so (something other than 'I think it makes no sense' - people have a tendency to conflate their opinions with fact in my experience, myself included :P) That of course does not mean that Cain's actions are not open to multiple interpretation, of course - like anything involving words there is always the chance of multiple interpretations, but in many cases we tend to get more of an absolute rather than relative to approach to things - eg its ALWAYS literal or its ALWAYS hyperbole, but almost never anywhere in between those two. Things should be judged (As much as we can, and to the limits of our knowledge) on a case by case basis, and in the case of an open ended universe with no hard-and-fast god-creator, canon status, or anything you might get used to in Star Wars, Trek, etc. you have to try your best to stay flexible.


Page 10
I was charged with maintaining discipline as they became comfortable working together and the new personnel assignments started bedding in. (Quite literally in some cases, which only made matters worse of course, particularly when acceptable fraternisation spilled over into lovers’ tiffs, acrimonious partings, or the jealousy of others. I was beginning to see why the vast majority of regiments in the Imperial Guard were segregated by gender.)
We learn some about the rules and regulations governing the guard and why (At least according to Cain, or the area he serves/operates in) why regiments are single-sex. It reminds me ab it of what I've heard bout regulations in the US army, (assuming what I heard is corect.) and at least in the case of the Guard (and the Valhallans Cain serves with) it could be said to make a certain sort of sense.
Of course, this being 40K, standardizing anything like this is doubtful at best.


Page 10
...and a rapid palming off of the problem to the chaplain..
Again, we learn the Valhallan chaplain is useful as a source of advice and counseling, as well as being a chainsaw-wielding fanatic in some cases.


Page 11
...the officer in charge of the old freighter that had been hastily pressed into service to transport us from our staging area on Coronus Prime...
...
Presumably the Munitorium decided it wasn’t worth diverting a fully-fitted troopship to deploy just a single regiment, and commandeered a suitable civilian vessel for the job..
Again its Munitorum practice to, when they need to (or want to) to comandeer civilian vessels for their tasks.


PAge 13
..for getting nearly a thousand Guardsmen and women off his ship.
The valhallans are still roughly a thousand or so. seems they may not have lost many troops at Gravalax. It was also mentioend they spent 'weeks' at least on the troop ship, although context isn't 100% positive that it rules out 'weeks' meaning months.


Page 15
A couple of kloms wide at least, it resembled a filthy dagger-thrust into the heart of this strangely peaceful world.
...
Kilometres: a Valhallan colloquialism Cain acquired from his long association with the natives of that world.
Klom - Kilometer. I suppose you could still argue 'megathule-megajoule' based on that or similar, but I really wouldn't make the case, given I've taken a new approach to it (at least I have since 'Legion of the Damned.' LOL)



Page 16-18
"Are the datafeeds set up?"

...
"The one in the fancy hat wants to know if you’ve wired up his gadgets."
..
"They are all functioning within acceptable parameters."
...
"We’ll have full sensor coverage of the planet’s surface then."
...
"The appropriate rituals of data retrieval are on this."
...
A troopship would have been equipped to deploy a proper orbital sensor net, which would have been infinitely preferable, but the battered old freighter’s navigational array would just have to do.
...
..we had to make do with what we could grab instead of waiting around for the right equipment.
...
...the Pure of Heart only had to stay in orbit over the refinery, feeding her sensor data into our tactical net, so we could keep an eye on our enemies from above.
...
The extra intelligence our orbital eye would give us would help immeasurably in deploying our defences to frustrate their attacks.
A rather lengthy passage indicating that the civilian transport/freighter that had brought the Valhallans to their destination remains in orbit providing surveillance for the regiment. There are several important elements here. The first, of course, is that the Valhallans employ orbital surveillance. SEcondly we learn this is an ad-hoc arrangement, normally they'd have a troopship and or a orbital (satellite?) sensor network to provide the data - implied to give better coverage and quality.

The third interesting thing here is more implied than outright stated -the 'tactical net' in both teh book before this one (for the Emperor) and after this one (Traitor's Hand) refer to the Valhallan 597ths tactical net is described as being part of the vox/communication network of the regiment. But here, its explicitly including sensor/data feed transmissions, so we get the notion that the tactical net (at least in a Valhallan context - again 'standardisation' being an oddity in the Imperium) can encompass visual/sensor and audio data both. This is hardly unprecedented, as the Ghosts and various other sources like the Munitorum manual have indicated that the guard has various means of combined audio/data/visual transfer capability, such as portable vox units. This is probably just an extension of that.


Page 19-20
It went without saying that rather than military dropships, the Pure of Heart was equipped with heavy-duty cargo haulers which had been hurriedly converted to meet our needs as far as possible. The end result was better than I could have reasonably expected, but was far from ideal. The front third of the cargo space had been partitioned off with a hastily welded bulkhead, and then subdivided into half a dozen decks with metal mesh flooring. Somehow Mazarin and her acolytes had managed to cram some five score seats with their associated crash webbing into this space so that we were able to disembark a couple of platoons at a time. The rest of the hold had been left open, to take our Chimeras, Sentinels, and other vehicles, along with a small mountain of ammo packs, rations, medicae supplies, and all the other stuff necessary to keep an Imperial Guard regiment running at peak efficiency.
The 'improvised' means of deploying the Valhallans. The interesting thing is, that by Cain's comments, that he would expect a military drop ship to be better than this arrangement as far as deployment goes, suggesting that the military dropships normally carry more than two platoons - possibly a full company. Plus whatever equipment and vehilces they carry. We know the Valhallans have Chimeras and Sentinels, and Cain's Salamander (possibly others.)


Page 20
"Must have been watching Attack Run in the mess hall."
...
A popular holodrama of the time, about a squadron of Lightning pilots who shoot down an unfeasible number of enemy fighters during the Gothic War. I quite enjoyed it, although my savant, claims to have counted four hundred and thirty-seven historical and technical inaccuracies in the first episode alone.
A bit on visual entertainment in the Imperium. This is notable as its nothing like movie per se, rather its like a TV show (or perhaps a recording of one.) which is hardly surprising (entertainment, as the US can attest to, is a good medium for indoctrination and propoganda.) What is kind of surprising is that its implied to be fairly widespread across a region rather than just restricted to one planet. I imagine that trade in such media may be fairly profitable in some of the more sophisticated parts of the Imperium.

Also 'holodrama' implies its more three dimensional rather than two dimensional. As in hololith/holographic capability. LOST ENTERTAINMENT TECHNOLOGY :P


Page 23
"We have to pull back to orbit!"
...
"We’d take hours to rendezvous with the ship if we abort on this trajectory, and we only have limited life support. You’d probably suffocate along with everyone else."
The cargo hauler landing Cain and his Vahallans would take 'hours' to abort its current run and return to orbit. In very simplistic terms it means, bleeding off current velocity' and 'achieving escape velocity' again. More complicated is the distance covered in reaching said escape velocity. Its doubtful its straight line (from ground to orbit). Its also a bit complicated in terms of how many hours. Certainly less than a day/night but we can't say how much

If we say 2 hours, and an 8 km/s velocity to bleed off and return we'd be talking less than 2 m/s^2 constnat velocity. Clearly we're not talking a great many gees to do it even on the best circumstances, but really that's not shocking. Its not a high performance ship, there is no AG either, and more than a few gees would probably be risky anyhow. Given we also learn it runs on chemical power (probably Promethium) high acceleration is unlikely anyhow.


Page 23
"Pressure loss in number two engine," it chanted. "Combustion efficiency dropping by sixteen per cent."
The hauler runs on fossil fuels/combustion. Not really a bad thing really, as it speaks to speaks either to the efficiency of the fuel supply (as you need around 30-60 mj per kg to reach escape velocity for an Earthlike planet) or to the method of the engines (perhaps they use some Electrothermal-chemical like process to improve the thrust, or a laser to provide/enhance the propulsion (like a needler purportedly does.) It could even be both.


Page 26
In truth, I suppose, it was no colder than Valhalla or Nusquam Fundumentibus.
Language not being one of my strong points, but I get the feeling he means a planet named 'ass end of nowhere' literally



Page 27
I buried my face in the muffler at my throat...
Cain has a muffler. We learn later that the Valhallans come equipped with scarves and snow goggles, which seems to make sense. Given that its implied that Valhallans can endure temperatures in which normal people would freeze, you probably don't want much exposed skin.


Page 29-30
"’It looks more like a starport than a landing pad."
...
"The shuttles from the tankers are over five hundred metres long."
...
"And they land up to twelve at a time.’"
...
Certainly the thought of a swarm of shuttles almost half the size of the starship we’d arrived in filling the air above where we stood was an aweinspiring one..
Another intersting passage. For one thing the 'shuttles' - which basically the nonmilitary equivalent of 'attack craft' in this context - are basically small fucking starships. And the tanker carries a fucking dozen. It probably has to be cruiser sized at least (given the numbers at least a few km, and probably more than that when you consider engines tpyically make up 1/3 the length of a ship)

Also we learn that the trnasport that brought Cain is half the size of a shuttle, or about a kilometre long. Wwe know civilian craft get that small, indeed FFG implies that its the lower limit on warp capable vessels (although we know the Space Marines and Rogue TRaders have had smaller, eg the 500 meter long rapid strike vessel in Angels of Darkness.) so we might view this as corroborating proof.

As a further aside, the size of ships in this context does justify the need for starports, landing pads, and 'designated' landing sites rather than just them landing wherever the fuck they want. Unless the starship is lucky enough to have antigrav or repulsors/suspensors (not common as I recall, at least for landings), they need speciallized cradles and platforms/terrain to suppor their bulk (as pointed out in sources like Rynn's World, too.)




Page 30-31
..by the rather more urgent matter of a bolter shell exploding against the ceramite hull less than a metre from where we were standing.
...
I whirled around to look in the direction she was pointing. At least she had the common sense to do it with her lasgun, though, and opened fire on a small knot of greenskins that was closing fast...
...
"We must have them outnumbered about ten to one!"
...
A quick glance around me made out at least three squads fully disembarked. They were lying flat in the snow which they’d scraped out into small hollows.
Orks open fire at better than 200 metres range (probably more, we just don't know quite how much more. And they still miss. Poor Orks. The Valhallans open fire back, which implies its at least effective range. And given that its cold weather, their effective range is at least twice that (Rebel Winter stated cold and anorksih enemy - weather and enemy - affect range) 400-600 metres maybe (300 metres is at least possible from the context.

Also there are ten orks (given 100 Valhallans, 2 platoons), so we can figure between 30 and 100 troops involved. Probably a bit less than that (half) since the second squad have yet to deploy as I recall.

Also valhallan anti ork tactics - Cain notes they were based on tactics used when Orks first invaded Valhalla.


Page 31
Cain wasn’t exactly fluent in orkish, but had managed to pick up a few phrases in the course of his adventures. Mostly insults and obscenities, of course, but it could be argued that they make up the whole language.
Heh, Ork language. I love comments like this.


Page 31-32
The orks came on regardless, running apparently tirelessly despite the treacherous footing and the biting wind which would have sapped the strength from an unprotected man in seconds. I began mentally counting off the distance. Two hundred metres, one hundred and fifty...
...
There were ten of them in all, about half carrying the bolters I’d noticed before. The others held heavy close combat blades and pistols which looked as deceptively ramshackle as the bolters.
Indication of how fucking cold it is, how resistant to the extremes of the elements Orks are, and an inidcation of the lower limit on range I alluded to before. Probably alot longer than that, given the 'seconds' implied.

Also the orks are carrying stub guns(sluggas?) and bolters. Oh and again 10 orks.


PAge 32
The same went for the axes, which, with the power of an ork’s muscles behind them, were capable of shearing through even Astartes armour.
Ork capabilities according to Cain. Bet the WAAAGH effect can be attirbuted to the axe's sharpness (well that and Orkish strength)


Page 32-33
The mystery was solved a few seconds later as they caught sight of the idling Chimera...
...
And sure enough the heavy bolter in the turret swung round to bracket the orks. Puffs of snow and ice were thrown up around them as the explosive projectiles detonated thunderously, tearing a couple of them apart.
...
...suddenly struck by the concentrated fire of a couple of score lasguns, not to mention the unrelenting hail of heavy bolter fire, there was nothing much left of them apart from some unpleasant stains on the snow within seconds. Sulla ambled over to inspect the mess, and spat a small gobbet of ice into it.
One Chimera blasts apart two or three orks in sustained burst, indicating heavy bolter firepower (multiple grenade level)

7-8 Orks (possibly fewer) taken get taken down by a 'couple score' lasguns and a single Chimera's heavy bolter. We dont know the exact ratios, but we can work it out probably in terms of ranges. The lasguns probably take down at least one ork (or the equivalent of one) but certainly not more than 8. Given the calcs for 'flash burns' at 400 j per sq cm here can flay, we can use that sa an approximation (order of magntidue of course) for lasgun damage. Assuming a ~2 meter tall, 1 metre wide ork on average flayed on both sides 40,000 sq cm, which works out to 16 MJ per ork. So we can talk between 16 and 128 MJ total.

We can break this down a bit more specifically. The Chimera we know takes down a 'couple' orks in seeming seconds, so we can probably figure the Chimera accounts for half the orks. leaving the other half for the orks, which would be 64-80 MJ. Split the difference.

That just leaves the issue of how many troopers firing. upper limit of 100, and at least 30. 'a few score' implies between 40-60, which woudl be about a platoon. With 100 firing and hitting one ork
that is 160 kj per gunner. Assuming 60 shots for the full powerpack (or 2-3 seconds) we get ~2.7 kj per shot, or ~50-80 kw sustained firepower per Valhallan at least. 30 valhallans would of course be ~534 kj per Ork, which works out to between ~8.9 kj per shot, or 178-267 kw per valhallan.

On the other end of the scale? 128 MJ for 100 valhallans is 1.28 MJ per trooper. 427-640 kw per trooper, or 21.3 kj per shot. at 30 troopers its 4.27 MJ per trooper, which is 71.2 kj per shot, or 1.4-2.1 MW sustained ROF.

And of course 'split the difference' 40-50 troopers, and 64-80 MJ 1.28 MJ (64 MJ and 50 troopers) to 2 MJ (40 troopers and 80 MJ) At 60 shots thats between 21.3 kj and 33.4 kj per shot, whilst in 2-3 seconds we get 427-640 kw and 667 kw to 1 MW roughly.

So yeah, broad range of calcs, and it generally supprots the broad range I've established over the years (from single digit kj per shot, to megawatts sustained firepower), but I'll just settle on single/double digit kj per shot, and double/triple digit kw sustained ROF because I know what works :P I actually tend to prefer the split the difference calc for that reason.


Page 34
..I was still feeling like a freezy stick.
...
A popular snack on many worlds with a temperate or tropical climate, particularly among juves, fruit juices are frozen solid, with a stick embedded in it to facilitate eating. It sounds bizarre, I know, but is really very refreshing.
40K popsicles.


Page 35
"Dear Emperor, no. If I did they’d have to kill me." He smiled as he said it, although for all I knew he wasn’t joking.
...
Almost certainly not. ’’Binary’’ as the tech-priests refer to their secret language, is one of their most sacred mysteries. Cracking it has long been a priority of the Inquisition, but so far even the most rudimentary syntax has yet to be established.
The AdMech are secretive about Binary (which may or may not be the real binary. As far as we know, it is.) and the Inquisition (or at least the parts Amberley is acquainted with) haven't cracked it. And we know the AdMech will literally kill to keep its secrets (no shock there.)


Page 37
The facility seemed to be equally dependent on the three factions present to keep functioning, or at least that’s what Pryke fondly imagined, although I’d have laid a small wager that putting the Administratum drones out in the snow to keep the orks amused while we prepared our defences would have had a negligible effect on the promethium output.
Cain has the same opinion of the Administratum I do. They just push papers, while the miners do the mining, and the AdMech maintains the Machines. Two essentials not three.


Page 38-39
"A field commander has the right to declare martial law at any time with the approval of the highest ranking member of the Commissariat present."
...
"Under the powers bestowed upon me by the commissariat in the name of His Divine Majesty, I serve notice that any civilian obstructing His forces in the defence of His realm will be subject to summary execution under article seventeen of the rules of military justice."
The interetsing thing is this apparently even overrides the AdMech on premise, up to and including the Execution. Which is interesting as you'd think AdMech sovereignty would preclude that. Of course, there are practical reasons why this might be the case, as some uppity AdMech (like the one in this book) might cause trouble that compromises the safety of important facilities. So minimizing that probably would be a good idea - and despite their power, even the AdMech is dependent upon and subordinate (to some degree) to politics and all it entials, so a compromise that allows the Imperial Guard (or at least the Commissariat in the name of the Guard) authority in specific circumstances.

Of course like most things, how widespread this practice is up to debate.


Page 41
... I haven’t been able to lay my hands on very much, as such things remain the jealously-guarded province of the Adeptus Mechanicus...
...
From Our Friend Promethium, Imperial Educational Press, 238th edition, 897 M41
The AdMech restrict all knowledge about Space Oil, even from the Big Inquisition, and so Amberley has to use what is the equivalent of a child's educational book. Which is cute and amusing as hell. It also shows that there is an Imperial educational/printing institution, which makes sense as it would serve as a great way of indoctirnating the populace into the Imperial way of thinking (much as the way, I imagine, Texas tries to use its position as a printer of textbooks to influence American education to its way of thinking.)


Page 41-42
..to the most humble spaceport cargo-hauler, it can truly be said that the Imperium runs on promethium...
Cargo ships (at least the sublight shuttle types) run on promethium. Not a terrible shock, but it does demonstrate how damn versatile the stuff is. Now the question is, does it use it as chemical or nuclear fuel :P


Page 42
The alchemical byproducts of its production provide the raw materials to create a vast array of everyday necessities, from dyes, plastics and pharmacopoeia to the synthetic protein bars which make up the bulk of the proletarian diet on some of the drearier forge worlds.
Non weapon, non propulsive uses of Promethium. It really emphasizes the 'Space fossil fuel' aspect, although I can't say that it sounds very appetizing as a food additive. Probably mix it with corpse starch at that for Extra Grimdark.



Page 42
From the flamers which scourge the unholy with the purifying fire of the righteous to the alchemical constituents of the explosives which blast them into oblivion..
Promethium is used both as an incendiary and as an explosive component. Much as like fyceline apparently making good alcohol, this may hint at 40K explosives being quite energetic, but it also depends on how much and in what manner they're combined (nevermind the whole 'Promethium is a wide vareity of substances' thing.)



Page 42
Promethium itself can be produced in a variety of ways, and from an astonishing number of sources. Among the most common are the atmospheres of gas giant planets, subterranean deposits of ancient organic materials, and certain kinds of rare ices found only on the coldest of worlds.
Sources of the Space Fossil Fuels. To be fair I can't think of gas giants providing anything but hydrogen to my knowledge (and I tried looking, believe me) but the others are pretty commonplace. Bear in mind, again the 'class of substances' rather than single substance when it comes to this as well.

the ice thing (mentioned a few times, since its an ice planet they're mining) would be interesting given the combustible ice mentioned here. It might even be relevant.. except they extract liquid promethium from the ice in this novel, not natural gas :P

And there is that whole 'diesel fusion' thing... more on that later. LOL



Page 42
[Of course it’s the illustrations which are. the real charm of this little book particularly those of its narrator, Pyrus the fame. 'Even now I can’t help smiling at the expressions on the faces of the heretics he’s burning on page twenty-eight, just as I did as a child all those years ago.
This is one of those 'double take' moments I get with the Cain novels sometimes. I mean on one hand its pretty lighthearted and cute because of the nostalgic, childlike feel to it... and then on the other hand its... a person remembering fondly enjoying seeing people being burned alive. The easy, casual way she accepts that isn't immediately chilling until you really think about it, either, which is why I like it so much - it makes you think.


Page 44
"...the Administratum and the Mechanicus don’t give a damn. Just trot out the same old line about the losses being within acceptable statistical parameters."
Again grimdark.. the Cain novels are relatively nicer and less over the top than other 40K books, but there's still the grim stuff when it comes to 'cold man-cyborgs and faceless uncaring bureaucracy.'


Page 45
"It’s taken them over six weeks to get here from the crash site. If an advance party was taking your miners they’d have had to have got halfway round the planet within a few days of their arrival, and we’ve seen no sign of any rapid deployment capability."

"Unless they teleported."
...
Ork units were deployed by teleporter on several occasions during the Armageddon campaign, for instance.
Comment on 'rapid deployment' in scope and time, and the ork use of teleporters. Presumably this is 'rapid deployment' by Guard standard. Given the capability ot be deployed by starship, its hardly surprising. That works out to tens of thousands of km in 48-72 hours for an average speed of 277-416 km/hr nonstop (And not allowing for any prep time or anything but flying really.)


Page 45
A map of the tunnels beneath us, I realised, where the precious veins of ice which could be transmuted into promethium had been hauled out for countless generations.
Again they're pulling promethium from the ice. Cuz its an ice planet.


PAge 47
Not to mention the fact that there was a horde of greenskins on the way. True, they weren’t expected to arrive in force for another twenty-four hours or so..
As of now, we learn that the events (from Cain's crash landing, to the conference where Martial law is declared, to where Cain learns of the disappearnces) has taken fewer than hours - later we learn the shuttle that got dinged up on crash landing had taken that long to fix, and it hadn't been repaired yet, and not much time had passed overall from event to event to event, so that suggests less than a day passes in the Valhallans deploying and getting set up. True, its a single regiment and not a big one at that, but thats impressive speed considering the circumstances.



Page 49
From time to time we heard sounds of activity from the main galleries, where Morel’s colleagues were still hacking the precious ice away with the aid of tools which looked alarmingly like the meltas we used as weapons.
Mining tools. Not sure using something like a melta is a good idea around combustibles... lol Then again it only LOOKs like a melta, that doesnt mean it is.


Page 49
The voice of one of the troopers hissed in my comm-bead, followed a moment later by the attenuated sound of her actual speech overlapping the transmission like a distorted echo. She could only be a hundred metres or so away.
Implied lower limit comm range for Valhallan comm beads.


Page 49
...she brought the patch of discoloured skin on her left cheek where she’d taken a glancing las hit on Gravalax..
Glancing las hit. Probably more than first degree, but not quite third degree (its not requiring a graft as near as I can tell. And if its the case I remember - when Cain and his troupe were hauling the tau to their own enclave and had to gun down the PDF yahoos - it wasn't a serious wound either.) Assuming a 10x10 or 5x5 area affected and ~20-30 j per sq cm, we're talking at least 500-750 j to 2-3 kj for the 'glancing' hit. Which is only going to be part of the overall yield, again pointing at single digit, possibly double digit kj lasbolts.



Page 50
..if there was a bio-ship or two in the sector the chances of them getting this far into Imperial space undetected were negligible.
Apparently the region Cain exists in has measures in place to make sure hive ships don't sneak up on them. OF course he could be referring to side effects, like the Shadow in the Warp making astorpaths go mad, etc.


Page 51
Very early on in my association with Cain and his aide, it became obvious that Jurgen was a blank: a staggeringly rare attribute which made him immune to daemonic possession or psychic attack.
REference to Jurgen's special properties.


Page 55
My hand fell against the lasgun on Penlan’s back. Without thinking I twisted it round, finding just enough play in the sling, and fired without even aiming properly.

Either luck or the Emperor was with me, because she’d left it on full auto. As my panic-spasmed hand locked on the trigger a hail of las bolts sprayed the chamber, blowing chunks of ice from the walls and deafening us with the roar of ionising air and ice flashing into steam. The creature screamed and fled, even more terrified than I was, and as the power cell died and relative silence descended on our ringing ears...
Implies Cain fires the lasgun one handed, but in a very short period of time (seconds) drains the powerpack, implying a fairly high rate of fire (at least, several times greater than the Upliftimg primer's 220 rpm.)

Also the effects of the lasguns on ice. As noted its seemingly a combination of pulverization and vaporization (chunks and steam.) probably a steam explosion. Last time I calced it I assumed total vaporization, but now I'm not quite so fixated on that :P



Page 55-56
..the hail of las bolts had melted a number of small pits into the walls. Something seemed to be embedded in one, and I tried to focus on it...
...
It was a human hand, severed at the wrist, the stump scored with vicious bite marks.
Now melted. I'd guess it just melted around the edges (partial melting) but it could have totally melted as well as the steam explosion. As I noted before its probably at least 8-15 cm diameter hole, we could easily call it 3-5 kj to 10-15 kj per shot for 'blaster' style damage (single pulse, 10 microsecond delay, 5 mm spot size.) Melting could bring that to double or triple digit kj depending on the percentag eof melting (as discussed in the first analysis I did.)


Page 56
As I did so I noticed a thick smear of ichor on the ice.
Lasfire causes bleeding in the creature.


Page 58
When I asked her why she found the tech-priests so disturbing she just shrugged, and said, "They’re weird, that’s all." She never reacted that way towards me, or anyone else in the regiment with augmetic replacements, so I guess it was just the sense she got from them of having voluntarily, if not eagerly, surrended part of their humanity.)

...
A common reaction to members of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Personally it’s their air of smugness I find most off-putting. And isn’t it about time the Ordo Hereticus started asking some pointed questions about this Omnissiah cult of theirs
comment about the way the common man may regard techpriest religion and augmentation (discrimination?) and Amberley calling for the Hereticus to investigate them. This is of course before the HH novels I think, but really.. you'd think she'd know their cult has its roots in the Heresy or something :P


Page 59
The orks had obligingly arrived on schedule and were busily throwing themselves (or more probably their gretchin cannon fodder) against our outer defensive line with a gratifying lack of success so far. Luckily, Mazarin and her acolytes had managed to get the damaged shuttle flying again in a matter of hours, and the rest of our deployment had gone without a hitch...
Again, the implication is that less than a day passed in the deployment, total.



Page 60-61
....the Valhallans’ understanding of how to exploit it, were paying handsome dividends, as the latest sensor downloads from the Pure of Heart were making abundantly clear. I gazed at the blurry image in the tactical hololith. It looked like someone had dropped it on the journey up here from the landing pad, as the three-dimensional representation of the battlefield would occasionally jump a few centimetres to the left, blank out, and reset itself.
Tactical hololith receiving data feed/download from the orbiting starship (which in other casses woudl be the datanet) which provides updates on the tactical situation. Rather useful.


Page 61
..I was looking (when the blasted hololith would let me) at an extensive network of trenches and firing pits which would have taken weeks to dig in more normal terrain, but which had been hollowed out in mere hours by adroit use of our heavy flamers and multilasers.
Hours using multilasers and flamers to make trenches. We dont know the mechanism (blasting or melting) the exact numbers or anything like that, but it does imply heavy flamers and multilaser sare similar in destructive magnitude (at least as far as burning shit goes.)



Page 62-63
...I voxed Mazarin aboard the orbiting starship to request a more detailed analysis.
...
"Single contact, about two hundred kloms. kilometres to the west."
...
"’It’s a single artifact, approximately eighty metres in height. Self-propelled, with a high thermal signature which indicates combustion processes of some kind. Metallic shell, mainly ferric in composition."
...
"You’ve just confirmed what I suspected. It’s a gargant."
...
The orkish equivalent of a battle titan, the approaching construct might be crude but it would certainly have enough firepower aboard to punch through our defensive lines without even so much as slowing down.
...
"..we’ve got less than a day before it gets here..."
80 m tall ork gargant.. which in retrospect puts it well above Warlord and approaching Imperator fucking height. That's fucking insane (Esp since its combustion pwoered. Only be steam powered could be worse. Also the starship's sensors can cover at least 200 km width (radius) from low orbit. Gargant takes less than a day (12-24 hours) to cover that distance.. ~8-16 kph roughly.

Oh and the Valhallans have nothing that can stop a Gargant. Duh.



Page 68
Crouched below the parapet of a rampart of ice I scanned my tactical data-slate...
...
..noting with satisfaction the disposition of the squads under my command. As I’d come to expect, all were positioned with perfect precision,..
Tactical dataslate, providing data on troop disposition.



Page 68
..the emplaced lascannons and multi-lasers we’d carefully sited finished the job, putting out a withering crossfire which ripped them to pieces.
Multilasers and lascannon heavy weapons. Possibly the multilasers are on chimeras, but its not specified. Then again.. MULTI-LAZORS.



Page 71
...it’s certainly the case that a significant proportion of the heretical and unclean gravitate naturally to undercities and similar habitats. Then again, given the hostile nature of many worlds, both Imperial and xeno,. the population may have had little option but to burrow underground to survive, which at least partially explains the prevalence of such labyrinths throughout inhabited space.
Which in turn suggests a substantial portion of the Imperium may exist belowground, or in hive-liek constructs... you know, like the BILLIONS OF HIVE WORLDS Heart of Rage implied. :D

Then again it just may reflect that many worlds are either built on top of others, or just have alot of underground spaces and shit (mausoleums, sewers, whatever.


PAge 73
...looking somewhat askance at the heavy thermal weapon. "That would pretty much vaporise the creature."

"Along with a fair sized chunk of the wall behind it." I agreed.

Meltas are designed to punch through tank armour, and using one to eradicate a single creature might seem like overkill to most people...
Melta 'vaporizes' ambull. And also vaporize a big hunk of the wall behind it. which could mean 'reduce to steam' or explode, depending on who you ask and how much argument it entails. And ambulls are much bigger than humans at that, so we're probably talking (if literal) gigajoules - especially factoring in the wall.

Figuring it vaporizes a 4x4 meter chunk of wall (as in 'cratering explosively) and blows apart a 4 m tall ambull (1 m wide, 400 j per sq cm flaying intensity) we're talking 16 MJ for the Ambull, maybe the equivalent of 10 kilos or so of TNT (assuming I did the math right based on the ADC stuff) for the wall, although that assumes a hemipsheircal crater too. Calling it 'double digit MJ' probably covers it reasonably well.


Page 75
The Valhallan 597th divided its squads into two fireteams of five troopers each, a common, though unofficial, practice in regiments experienced in urban warfare.
Reiteration of the Valhallan use of 'fireteams', and its 'unofficial' status. The IG apparently makes use of alot of unofficial 'practicies' to modify their so called 'doctrine' Then again, when your doctrine basically amounts to 'put some guy in charge and give him a book covering every possible tactic in human history, give him a shit ton of men and vehicles and other shit, hope it all gets there, and pray for the best', there's definitely room for variation.



Page 75
...diffusing through the ice floor like the first faint echo of the dawn breaking somewhere a klom or two over our heads...
...
In fact, according to the schematics, the lowest level of the mines was almost three kilometres below the surface at this point.
Implied depth of the mines, at least the lowest levels. This gives us a rough idea of the thickness of the ice layer and an estimate on the depths of the Necron tombs themselves. I've heard people dispute this but really.. its not that surprising given what we know of Necron tombs from umpteen kajillion other sources, so who cares what they think.



PAge 78
The narrow passage was high enough to stand up in without stooping, even for me, and if not quite wide enough for two abreast had at least enough room for us to be able to see past the man in front (and shoot, too, which was more to the point.)

...
Cain was just under two metres in height, and was generally among the tallest in any given group.
Implied dimensions of the tunnel in question, and a rough idea of the height of Cain. Unlike certain other novels (*coughcoughGhostscough*) 2 metres is considered rather tall, so we're not in a region of space populated by Freakishly Tall Individuals. Of course, some sourcs say SPACE Marines are ~2 metres tall too, so...


Page 79
"A few weeks." he said. "A couple of months at the most." In other words, about the same time the orks turned up.
Time the orks have been on planet.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Part 2

Page 79
A generic term for a bewildering variety of organisms apparently associated with orks. Opinion in the Ordo Xenos remains divided as to whether they represent true symbiosis, or are simply an entire genus of unpleasant creatures sufficiently close to the greenskins’ peculiar metabolic processes to flourish in close proximity to them. It is undeniable that they do seem to accompany most orkish infestations, however.
Amberley discussing Squigs. Apparently it covers a broad variety of creatures in the Orkish Mobiel Ecosystem that are (I woudl gather) not gretchin or snotlings or Orks. Or ORkeosaurs, Squiggoths, or Giant Ork Boars.

Also a reflection that the Imperium seemingly cannot come to a consensus about Orkish biology, physiology, psychic nature, etc.



Page 80
Vorhees said, his voice crackling over the comm-net from a hundred metres or so up the tunnel
Again vox ranges implied to be at least in the 100m range. Also gives a rough idea of the spacing of the squad, as we have people spread out a hundre metres ahead of cain (at least.) Given he's generally noted to be in the middle of the group (the safest place!) we can infer they may be 100 metres or so up the tunnel as well.



Page 81
"Jurgen." I shouted. "Give us some elbow room." Divining my intentions the troopers nearest to us scattered back along the passageway. Logash was hauled away protesting by Grifen, who couldn’t be bothered trying to explain. His voice was drowned out abruptly by the hiss of the melta as Jurgen fired at the wall, instantly flashing a dozen cubic metres of ice into
steam, which condensed almost instantly in the subzero temperatures, filling the narrow passageway with mist.


He was just in time, too. An instant later the newly frozen wall burst in on us in a hail of glittering ice shards..
The infamous 'meltagun' calcs. Necronlord did these long long ago first of course, andI sorta just took my mark from him. And boy, have people bitched, if not raged. Anything from 'EXPLOSIONS LIKE TNT' to just outrage at the biggatons. Its a bit silly really. I mean 'explosion' can mean anything from high explosive to gunpowder, and the lethality depends more on the blast effects (velocity it travels, etc.) which itself is dependent upon the intensityand rate of delivery as much as energy content (EG an explosive-like LAZOR typically is in the millimeter focal points and microsecond to nanosecond durations. None of which neccesarily applies to a melta. Without knowing the duration and focal point, the 'explosive' issue becomes less problematic since we know they can last for seconds duration and cover multiple square metres from this very novel. And if the beam is penetrative (which is also quite possible) it may even make it less problematic.

Which isn't tos ay the intiial analysis (mine or NecronLords) did not have some problems. For one thing, unless this is some 'flamethrower' style melta (and pyrum petrol has isomer/nuclear scale energy densities and releases its energy flamer style.) it would probably have a shitload of recoil. Possibly too much for a human to manage. a photon has 1 kg*m/s of momentum per 300 MJ roughly so a meltagun (20-30 GJ at least) would have a total momentum of 80-100 kg*m/s. Which is rather.. alot. Possibly impossible, but at the very least difficult for most normal humans to control. Spreading this over a longer timeframe (seconds) mitigates the recoil issue.

Another (bigger) problem is actually the thermal component. I'm not too worried about 'explosions' per se as I am of the thermal energy release. tens of gigajoules is alot of energy - to put this in context, assuming a 10x10x10 meter area Figure around 200K starting temp and raised to 320K (close to 120F temp which can cause scalds over a short period of time) At air density (1.2-1.3 kg per cubic meter) and specific heat (1 kj per kg roughly) you get 120-130 kj per kg over 120-130 kg you get 17 MJ of temp. nearly 2 GJ would be over 100x a temp increase. This isn't exact, since the melta isn't dumping that energy directly into the atmosphere, but it illustrates the complications.

What actually happens is that you have a bunch of scaliding hot steam. Steam has a density of 800 grams per cubic metre, which means that you get in that 10 cubic meter area 80 kg, gets us into around 200 MJ for steam. Better but... its still messy, since we're talking GJ.

This is where other ambiguityies I noted come in. We know the Valhallans are mostly covered in cold (they have goggles and scarves) which can reduce the risk of burns. We know its extremely cold (subzero) enviroments, with ice surrounding them. We know that the troopers were spread up to 100 metres away. And they took cover, meaning they may have covered up or gotten out of the way (although this still leaves Cain and Jurgen.) The xtended duration may even help And we don't knwo the true dimensions of the tunnel (Except that its wide neough for a squad to figth multiple ambulls, and its taller than Cain) Given all that, I'm not 100% sure it can explain the calc, but I'm certain it could make it at least POSSIBLE, and thats worth noting.

Even if I am wrong (and that is always possible), there are other answers. Its quite possible it wasnt significnatly vaporized, only partially. If the ice was merely melted or boiled (boiling could be a close enough approximation to steam) going with the 200K we get a 73K temp change at 2.1 kj per kg - 153 kj per kg 21.6 tons of ice is a 'mere' 3.3 GJ. Boiling would be 418.5 kj per kg and add another 9 GJ (12 GJ total.) Mind you, this also means a large quantity of melted/boiling water spills around the tunnel ground, which is not neccesairly any better, but itsprobably better than risking severe scald injuries.

Worst case (pulverization and nothing else) its still at least a few kg of TNT equivlaent I'd figure. :P

Overall it could be seen as proof of high MJ/low GJ outputs total at least over a matter of seconds. That fits within the melta calcs elsewhere to an 'order of magnitude', and double digit GJ at more optimsitic levels.


Page 81
I was vaguely aware of Jurgen standing aside to make room for some of the other troopers, whose barrel-mounted luminators spot-lit the confrontation. They were hoping they could get in a shot which wouldn’t vaporise me along with the monster I fought, but the hope was a vain one. We were locked in too close, and circling too fast, for anyone to have a hope of getting a clear line of fire.
The squad has been divided into fire teams, so we may see five troopers lining up on the ambull, but its no more than a squad anyhow. 5-10 troopers in a single 'shot' 'vaporizing' an ambull, purportedly. WE dont know if its a single shot or volley, and there is of course the 'vaporization' issue. According to Rogue trader (and Creatures Anathema) Ambulls are 4 m tall, maybe 1/4 that in width. Hunched down its maybe 2/3 its height (2-3 m tall, 1 m wide) LEts call it 1x1 m area (for the chest being blasted) We'll use flash burns between 50 and 400 J per sq cm (3rd degree to 4th/flaying) at 10,000 sq cm we get between 500 kj and 4 MJ. Order of magnitude will cover the 'estimated coverage', since I'm assuming the fully obdy, but ignoring misses and shots to hit the arms and such.

Assuming it means blasting the ambull's chest in a single 3-4 round 'shot' in 5-10 troops..we get between 15-40 shots total. For 500 kj thats at least 12.5 kj per shot, and 267 kj per shot at the other end. Of course if the ROF is higher (say 10-20 shots per trooper, 50-200 shots total) you get 2.5 kj per shot at 500 kj and 80 kj per shot.


Page 81-82
I have no doubt at all that, were I the type of commissar who relies on intimidation rather than respect to get the job done, and there are all too many of those around, most of the grunts would have taken the shot anyway and cheerfully reported that the creature got me first. It’s a lesson I try to pass on to my cadets, in the hope that the less bone-headed among them might actually get to enjoy a reasonably lengthy career..
Cain lectures on his 'inspiriation not intimidation' approach to Commissar-ing, and its benefits. Much as with For the Emperor, it reflects Cain's inherently 'psychological' approach to his job, and how he uses his brains far more than his gun to execute his duty (no pun intended.) For him, implied threat is more effective than the threat itself. And as in For the Emperor, I consider Cain to be more of a reflection of your 'typical' Commissar (a psychological type who may use any means neccessary - including intimitation -to manipulate his troops into doing their duty.) Cain is just better than most at it.

That said, it doesn't mean that the 'BLAM' type are rare either, they're just not as dominant as I think the propoganda and codexes make them otu to be. Grimdark tends to skew perceptions like that.


Page 82
The tactic worked well on some of the larger tyranid bio-forms,..
Implying that the ambull might be comparable to a 'larger' bioform.. how large is another debate. Warrior perhaps.


Page 85
Thanks to the obsessive record-keeping of the Admmistratum it’s possible to extricate practically any piece of information, you. may desire, however trivial, from the depths of the
Imperial archives. That is, if you can actually find what you’re looking for among the impenetrable thickets of worthless verbiage surrounding it
Amberley comments on trawling data to recover peritnent reports and data to pad out her archives and provide context and clarification as she often does. That Amberley is able to find what she's looking for given the hseer implied volume of Administratum record keeping (and the hints in many other sources about how they mindlessly collate all sorts of precise data without any reference or organization as to its utility or importance, the informational equivalent of a pack rat.) it says something about the information-sifting capabilities of said Inquisition.

We might even go as far as thinking the Inquisition deliberately fosters the inefficient, unthinking, and pedantic mindset that does that sort of stupid shit without any coherent or logical reason. After all, what better way to hide secrets than bury it amidst a shitload of pointless, useless, and hard to sift data?



Page 86
Colonel Kasteen called the meeting to order. Then she called it to order again. Major Broklaw fired his bolt pistol into the ceiling, and the meeting came to order.
I've been trying to avoid quoting every single funny bit I come across in the novel, but its hard. And I couldn't resist this one at all.


Page 87
Codicier Pryke raised the point that a significant credit value was attached to this installation, and that its destruction would result in a 0.017 per cent fluctuation in the mean commerce averages of the sector.
A comment both on the relative importance of the refinery in the greater scheme of things (important but not crucial as a loss) and perhaps a bit on sector-level economics (as in the fact they have an economy, and they actually seem to keep track of it to be able to understand these things.)

Also hint at 'credit' as a unit of currency, which has been used alongisde the 'Throne Gelt' to describe the universal currency (or whatever passes for one - some people object to the idea of the Imperium being anything other than SPACE FEUDALISM and having SPACE BARTERING, but there ya go.) unless its 'credit' in the credits and debits context.

I should note that hinting at this place actually being fairly unimportant (whilst Promethium is, as a rule, VERY important to the Imperium as a whole as Ameberley alluded to earlier.) tends to run consistent with the presumably low outputs and small population (some six hundred miners, 8 million litres of promethium, etc.)


Page 87
I suggested voxing them with a warning, but apparently they were too deep underground now to get a message through.
Suggesting a comms range (through ice and suchnot) maxes out at no more than a few km (nearly 3 km as specified later.) Probably includes vox casters as well as micro beads, since you'd think if one didnt work they'd use the other, omre powerful one.



Page 89
..if we’d had to walk every metre of it we’d still have been down there when the Emperor stepped off the throne.
...
Such beliefs became remarkably widespread as the turn of the millennium approached. Cain wasn’t superstitious enough to place any credence in such folk tales, of course, but like many others used the phrase metaphorically to mean the start of M42..
Amberley/cain commentary on the 40K version of Y2K/doomsday apocalypse crap I suppose. :P



PAge 89
Between my hiver’s instincts, Logash’s knowledge of xenology, and the readings of his auspex..
[/quote]

It's rather interesting that none of the Valhallans have any auspex inherent, and they rely on the techpriest having them. I'm not sure how it helps them in mapping, but it apparently does (As well as helping to analyze the ambull traces they come across in vairous ways - blood, claw marks, etc.) Of course we know their vehicles (Sentinels, Chimeras, etc.) have Auspex and such in latter novels (and of course they have access to the tactical sensor data from the starship in orbit) so they're not completely bereft. This may reflect the Munitorum mindset - since they have vehicles with sensors and access to orbital data, they don't need personal sensors and do not get issued them. Which obviously leaves them lacking in situations like this.. but also makes one wonder why they didn't try to requisition such materials from the AdMech or Miners (they have the authority through Cain, and if they can threaten to execute AdMech they can get needed gear.)

Anyhow, given Amberley's comments on blacklight later, it makes one wonder if the auspex is thermal. I mean it evidently is capable of scanning/analyizing life forms and life form data, so you'd think a thermal sensor would be part of that.... And as we know in later novels (including the Cain ones) thermal sensors do exist in the Imperium.


Page 90
...I’ve known plenty of tech-priests with augmetic data stores plugged into what’s left of their brains.
Brain enhancements, mainly seems to be for data storage.



Page 90-91
The carcass of our latest victim was lying a few metres further on in a wider tunnel...
...
..and riddled with the cauterised craters of las-bolt impacts.
...
The front of his flak armour was deeply scored, visible through the rents in his greatcoat. I gathered from the conversations around me that the ambull had just managed to get within arms’ reach of him before he finally succeeded in dropping it.
...
I glanced at the carcass, wondering if it was the one I’d shot before, but Vorhees had made such a mess of it blazing away on full auto that there wasn’t really enough left intact to tell.
...
It seemed that the thing had come at him along the main tunnel almost as soon as he’d entered it. He’d just been able to bring his weapon up before it was on him.
I've covered this calc before in my revised energy weapons analysis, and it used the same flash burns I did before, except it was a single lasgun on full auto, delivered in a few seconds, and scores/hundreds of shots. With the same aforementioned outputs (500 kj to 4 MJ) and assuming between 60-150 lasgun shots for a full powerpack. at 500 kj you get 3.4 KJ to 8.3 kj per shot. A few MJ is 27 to 67 kj per shot.

Sustianed (for a few seconds) woudl be double to triple digit kw at least, possibly several megawatts at the high end sustained fire (4 MJ over 2-3 seconds.) and double/triple digit kj per shot. This fits approximately with my earlier analysis as above.

The cauterization implies some degree of burning but to what extent we do not know. We know that lasguns hitting ambulls can make them bleed, so its either difference in setting, physiology, or 'cauterize' doesnt necesarily mean full cauterization.

As a non-lasgun aside, the trooper gets his coat (but not flak armor) shredded by the Ambull's claws, but apparently it didn't penetrate fully and didn't injure him. Seems more due to the fact the Ambull didn't get completely into range rather than flak durability, but still worth noting, if nothing as an upper limit.



Page 91
He was looking at the walls of the tunnel, and messing around with his auspex again.
...
"I think we’ve found one of the main runs."
Again the auspex seems to have some mapping or navigational functions to it. Much in the novel pretty much confirms this as being at lesat one of its functions. Basically I gather Sandy Mitchell figured it was the 40K version of a tricorder, since its used to analyze shit and do mapping, but doesn't seem to actually work as a sensor/warning system (as other forms of auspex are known to do.)


Page 92
..a garnet-coloured nimbus of frozen blood.
Lasgun causing at least some sort of bleeding. This suggests not all lasguns cauterize equally, its not ful lcauterization but partial in all cases, or it may simply be due to differences in the physical makeup/nature of creatures. Humans are relatively fragile creatures compared to alot of beasties in 40K, and what might cauterize human tissue may do fuck all to an ambull.

Of course it might also be variable setting (from 'blaster' to 'heat ray' for example.)



Page 92
The pool of light from our luminators revealed nothing apartfrom the dismembered ambull
Just to confirm, this is the Ambull vorhees blasted on full auto with his lasgun. I wanted to note this mainyl to reinforce the idea of using 'flaying' flash burns to represent the damage done, and that it does confirm it was probably over a very wide body area (at least on the front part of the body), and that it more than likely encompasses a fair percentage of the surface area..

If we assume 'dismembered' meant one or more limb was removed, we might get double digit kj per shot - the limbs are much bigger than human, probably thicker bone, carapace covered, and probably tougher flesh at that. At least maybe 10-20 kj per shot, perhaps.


Page 93
A less than complimentary slang term for tech-priests, apparently derived from their symbol of office. It is common among Guard troopers, along with several others, most of which are considerably more offensive.
cogboy. The AdMech have their own term for non-AdMech too. All for the Glory of the Emperor/Omnissiah and all that.


Page 93
...Logash it wouldn’t make any difference as the creatures could see in the dark anyway...
...
According to the Magos Biologos they can see heat rather than light. Rather an odd concept, I have to say, but having looked through a tau blacklight system recently I can attest from personal experience that such a phenomenon can be achieved by technosorcery, so I suppose it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility that it might also occur in nature.
This is an interesting quote for the ways in which it can be taken. The most obvious (literal) version is that the Imperium simply has no knowledge/understanding of IR/thermal sensors, and possesses none. Which is patently false, as numerous novels indicate (including the cain novels themselves) indicate the Imperium have them in some form (vehicle and starship if nothing else.) The second interpretation of course, is that they don't have any portable forms... except that this also runs into all those portable auspexes which can detect heat (especially the bio/lifeform sensors that rely on such.) Option 3 of course is simply that they don't have thermal IR vision stuff... which runs into the problem of 'preysense' gear and the like. Option 4 is that its comparateively rare, or its usage/existence is not standardized across the Imperium and Amberely may not be aware of/run across it. Which at least is plausible, for a given degree of 'plaus'. Option 5, of course, is that Ambereley is wrong/an idiot, which I am oddly reluctant to take because I like Amberley-CHAN (thanks Shroom!) as a character and I feel vaguely guilty for speaking bad of a fictional girl. :P


Page 93
Assistant squad leader, a lower-ranking NCO trained to take command if the sergeant becomes a casualty. Where a squad has been divided into fireteams (which, as has already been noted, was standard practice in the 597th) the ASL will normally take command of the second team when it becomes detached from the first, and the direct control of the sergeant.
The Backup 'sergeant' so to speak, and runs the fire teams. Interesting mainly in that this probably is ALSO an unofficial (but common) practice (at least among the Valhallans in Cain's area of space) and is notable for the way it impacts the chain of command/authority (at least within a squad.) and it also implies the 'unofficial' goes up higher into the command structure., at least within a regiment.

And as I've noted before, this only highlights the irony of 'standardisation' in the Imperium and it smilitary.



Page 94-95
All the refinery had to offer in the way of cuisine was a dozen different varieties of soylens viridians, which had already begun to pall, despite being fresh from their own vats. Of course, we’d brought our own supplies along but a nice fresh steak would lift my spirits nicely...
Soylent Green, 40K style. This would be funny, if it weren't for the fact a not-insiginificant number of sources (novels, FFG material, etc.) indicate this is literally true. Funny enough, while I've expressed distaste for the practice so many times (and in other cases noted the practical elements behind it, if certain drawbacks can be eliminated.) I actually find this paradox funny.

As it turns out though, having read Greater Good, soylens viridians are some sort of reconstituted legume, so I was wrong about it actually being people.


Page 97
She squeezed the trigger methodically, placing single shots on the head of the nearest ambull with commendable accuracy, aiming for the eyes and maw. A las bolt burst against the roof of the thing’s mouth, blowing a large chunk of brain matter backwards which clung to the frozen wall, solidifying like an obscene outgrowth as the creature toppled backwards.
I covered this one in my earlier analysis too. Ambull judging by artwork has a 30-35 cm diamter head. Previously I figured double to triple digit kj to blast through, and maybe same for third degree burns. Assume a 5 mm spot size, 10 microsecond delay between pulses, and a need to punch through bone to account for skull and carapace (both to penetrate and to exit) Assuming a thickness similar to Orks (around an inch or so) you get ~10 kj per pulse maybe, making a ~4.8 cm diameter hole 2.4 cm deep At least 2 such pulses to penetrate the bone, probably a few more would penetrate. I figure tissue would be isnignificant compare to that. If we go with more pulses, 50 1 kj pulses would produce 38 cm depth penetration and 2.2 cm diameter, which would also fit lasgun calcs. Again double to triple digit kj per shot seems likely here, call it 20-50 kj at least.



Page 97-98
Jurgen hefted the melta uncertainly unable to get a shot without killing as many of us as the creatures, and I had a moment to wonder if I’d ever get the chance to suggest he settle for something a little more manageable like a hellgun or a flamer next time.
More melta fun and its 'kill lots of living things at once' capability, which again speaks to the area of effect it can have (fanbeam/widebeam setting). Also flamers and hellguns seem to be (broadly) comparable weapons, although its not a comparison I would try to make precisely (unless its a WIDE BEAM hellgun, but even then given that 40K flamers can cremate... hilarity would ensue.)


Page 98
Then a line of bloody craters stitched themselves across the ambull’s chest.
Lasfire. Again doesnt seem to be wholly burning its way through the target like a heat ray, reinforcing the idea that they don't completely cauterize (at least against certain creatures for the reasons I outlined) and that they can have non-thermal damage components as well as the thermal.


PAge 101
...but simply abandoning our wounded wasn’t going to be an option. It would leave everyone demoralised, wondering if they’d be the next to be left to die.

That’s not a thought you want your troopers to start brooding on. It makes them jumpy and sloppy, and the next thing you know they’re so concerned with preserving their own skins they’re losing focus on the important stuff: fulfilling the mission objectives, and preserving mine.
Cain shows once more what an effective Commissar does, and the role of morale/psychology in executing that (agian no pun intended.) This doesn't conflict wiht the 'distant and intimidating' Commisar image, nor does it make them (or cain) cuddly or friendly - you can care for the well being or concern of a useful animal or tool without actually investing too much in it emotionally, after all. There are definite practical reasons (as Cain outlines) for such policies, and Commissars being grim and cruel for no good reason is counter-productive (which anyone but an idiot would realize. Of course we know they do make idiots commissars so this still remains a problem and we still get plenty of 'Execute first and think latre' types.)



Page 104
..he carried the weight of his twin promethium tanks with ease, the liquid within them sloshing quietly as he walked
Promethium is liquid


Page 101
"Not quite the word I’d choose, but it certainly beats recalibrating the interociters.."
Interociters in a mining colony. Another sci fi reference, although the one I am most familiar with is 'This Island Earth' where it was a communications/remote control device/beam weapon/other shit, I understand there are other usages, so I wouldn't begin to guess at the context here.



Page 105-106
"We’re below the ice layer. Actually down into the bedrock of the planet."
...
..he prattled on about the underlying geology of the mountain range...
...
.."A few million years ago this whole area would have been an open plain, or the bottom of an ocean."
...
"In its early history this would have been a far more hospitable world. But it’s just too far from the sun, and it cooled down gradually. Where we are now is on a continental shelf, which is why we’ve penetrated as far as the bedrock. The ice goes down for tens of kilometres just out from the mountain range, which would have been an island chain in those days. Or perhaps this was a coastal plain which flooded as the oceans froze and increased in volume."
...
Almost certainly the latter, given Cain’s subsequent discovery.
Commentary on the sturcutre/setup of the planet. Once before I had noted that this means the ice may be tens of kilometers thick, which is still possible, but there are some things I neglected. For one, in context this is from the 'mountain range', it could mean 'down' a slope for example. Or it may be just within the range of tha tmountain range (depth extending from some height up the mountains to the ground, or whatever) rather than being uniform thickness.

On the other hand, implying that the area they are in may have been part of the 'bottom of the ocena' also lends credence to the ice being at least hundreds if not thousands of metres thick. Assuming an earthlike enviroment and oceans (1e21 kg roughly), we could infer that the oceans might even out to ice at least a kilometre or two thick, if not close to three. Which incidentally meshes with the 'depth' of the mine itself. In any case, treating it as an order of magnitude estimate means 'hundreds to thousands' of metres, which I am fine with as far as my calcs have gone.

It also reflects something of the knowledge the AdMech can possess. Despite the whole 'techno-magic' mysticism crap, they actually do know some shit and science, although this is not mutually exclusive even in real life. 'God does not play with dice' and all that - there are plenty of 'scientific' sorts who have limitations or hangups when it comes to reconciling religion with science in our world, so why would it be any less so in 40K? It would onyl differ in degree and manner, and in the not-so-minor fact of the whole 'warp makes belief real' aspect.



Page 107
A colloquial reference to the Guard medicae sanitarium in the Sigma Pavonis system where troopers suffering from mental illness and combat fatigue are sent for assessment and rehabilitation. The less chronic cases are returned to duty after treatment, while the more severe ones can receive long-term care, sometimes for years. Co-incidentally, the system’s other claim to fame is as a manufactoria of combat servitors, many of which find their way into Inquisitorial service.
Going 'siggy'. Again kind of that 'understated' Cain style grimdark I like, but also more kind of 'graveyard' humor in that respect, which is actually more 'classicly' 40K. In another sense, it reflects that peculiar brand of practicality the Imperium embraces in such matters - they find a use for people no matter what. It also kind of echoes an IG version of 'Dreadnoughtizing' Astartes when you think about it (just with cyborg shit and lobotomies, cuz Space Marines are Speshul.)

It also wouldnt surprise me if the Inquisition deliberately set this up just to get decent combat servitors. On the plus side, this is not nearly as grimdark as 40K could make it. The troopers do get psychological care and treatment and even long term care, rather than being instantly recycled into such servitors at the slightest whim.

Sigma Pavonis is also a Star Trek reference, I believe.



Page 110-111
"Typical meatbag behaviour..."
..
..apart from occasional barely audible mutterings about meatbag barbarians.
The affectionate term AdMech use for normal humans. 40K is just full of such whismical eccentricities.


PAge 112
A crudely made bolter of some kind...
...
"An ork shoota."
A bolter can also be a 'shoota' for Orks.. indicating Shoota is a general category of 'ork weapons that shoot solid shit - not literally - at their targets.) as opposed to zzap guns (which shoot beams at the target.) Thus a shoota can encompass solid shot to 'bolter' style weaponry.


Page 115-116
..from the gallant Commissar Cain, who even as she spoke was continuing his heroic reconnaissance of the lowest levels of the mine..
Cain is in the 'lowest levels' of the mine, reinforcing the aformentioned depths at which the Necron Tomb seems to be buried, since it (or at least the topmost part Cain finds) is located at the bottom levels of the mine. Again easily at least hundreds of metres deep, if not several kilometers.


Page 115
Captain Federer of the engineering contingent..
Sappers, to be precise. Whether Valhallans have them normally or if this was part of the male component of the previous regiment, I don't know. Given that the men were a planetary assault regiment and the women garrison duties (40K glass ceiling in effect, given they were rear echelon at that vs the men's 'front line' status.) it seems likely they would have had engineers.



Page 118
Logash gave me a nasty look.

"'Fear is the mind killer,'..."
40K abounds with Dune references, :D


Page 119
Hail’s colouration is the norm on many other worlds in the sector, however, where the white skin typical of her homeworld would seem equally unusual, so it’s probable that an ancestor or two of hers settled there after relocating for some reason.
Indicating that emigration from one planet to another, at least within a sector, is possible, and that the isolation is not as total as older fluff suggested.


Page 120
"Surely we’re far too far underground?"
...
"Could be the bottom of a crevasse."
..
"It just fell down into the tunnels here." Maybe the fall had killed it and the ambull who brought it home just got lucky, although in my experience it would take more than dropping a few hundred metres down a hole to finish off a greenskin for sure, especially if it landed on its head.
Comment on Ork durability when it comes to heights (which means they have a better chance of surviving a fall down stairs than Space Marines do :P) It also reinforces (Yet again) that Cain and his group are hundreds of metres below ground (or at least believe the mines are such - we learn its slightly different later) and that again the Necrons are quite probably deep below ground as well.



Page 121
Somehow, incredibly, the ambull tunnel had broken the surface, hundreds of metres deeper than should have been possible.
..
"Perhaps a small valley, cutting into the mountains."
..
It was perfectly possible that we’d come right through the heart of the ridge forming one of the sides of the valley protecting the refinery complex, and found ourselves at the bottom of a defile of some kind that cut into it from the other side.
Again 'hundreds of metres' below ground, at leats in many parts. It could be that in this case its reflecting differences in elevation and such, so there is some chance I am still wrong :P


Page 122
’’Kommandos’’ as they’re knoivn (a loan word from some human culture according to the Ordo Diologus, as orks aren’t able to conceptualise anything to do with subtlety for themselves) are quite rare among the greenskin forces. Most lack the patience or, to be blunt, intelligence for anything other than a brute force frontal attack. Which makes these occasional exceptions a danger out of all proportion to their limited numbers, as they generally succeed in taking their targets completely by surprise.
Ork Kommandos. While they seem indeed to be considerably rarer than the other kinds of Orks, this seems to be a big part of their success - simply put, noone EXPECTS it of the Orks, and the surprise factor alone assists the Kommandos. And givne that few probably survive encounters with Orks period, the knowledge does not proliferate. And if it does... its still likely that some (many?) in the Imperial military would dismiss it (after all they know Orks are stupid,brutish and inferior. The uplifting primer tells them so!)


Page 124
Jurgen’s face came blearily into focus, the portion of it between his scarf and thick fur hat obscured by a pair of snow goggles identical to the ones I now realised were protecting my own sight.
..
The goggles were standard kit in a Valhallan regiment..
...
To my complete lack of surprise every trooper in first team had donned a pair as well, but, like Jurgen, these conditions were common to them.
All Valhallans carry goggles, scarves, etc. to cover up in extreme weather they are accustomed to. As I noted before this is sensible, since we know many regiments end up in adverse enviroments and need to be as sealed up (or protected against hostile envrimoentS) as they can - Krieg, Armageddon Steel Legion, the Cold wetaher cadians from IA11, Tallarn, etc.

I make this point partly for equipment, but partly for explanation of much of the 'melta' stuff. These aren't totally exposed, unprotected humans, and that has to be taken into account. It doesn't FULLY explain or excuse things (as I'll explain later, but in this case they aren't always wearing the goggles), but it does help (having the goggles means they can don them), and there's enough variables going on for some leeway to be considered too.


Page 126
I suppose it’s not all that surprising that they seem to have adopted me as one of their own in many ways
..
Actually, given the relationship between most commissars and the troops they serve with, this is pretty remarkable
Amberley and cain commenting on his Valhallan 'adoption'. I tend to agree with amberley... its remarkable that he's been taken in so thoroughly and welcomed, which is what marks him out as unusual (rather than the fact he simply thinks and manipulates people to do their jobs.) Indeed, one could argue that Cain is technically violating the role of a Commissar as they are supposed to remain distant and independent. One imagines his status as a hero and his record afford him far greater leniency in this regard. Well, that or his connections to Amberley :P



Page 130
...was that what little exposed skin I still had was completely numb by this time.
Cain, and hence the Valhallans, have very little exposed skin to the subzero arctic temperatures and storm conditions of the planet. Again considering the exposure many regiments face (adverse climate and hazards like pollution and radiation) the ability to cover up most if not all of their bodies is important. Again this isn't definitive, but it is suggestive and a variable to consider when it comes to those pesky melta calcs.



Page 131
On Valhalla, building snowmen is something of a cross between a serious art form and a competitive sport, with some quite astounding creations to marvel at..
Cain comments on Valhallan artwork. Like the 'freezy stick' bit it adds a bit of flavour and background depth to the Valhallans that is something other than 'WAR' You can kind of see them thinking ice sculpture (or snow art) is significant. It's something that might happen IRL, so it plays an interesting contrast when you throw it into Grimdark-ville.



Page 133-134
I fired by reflex..
..
..blowing a hole through its torso.

The creature staggered and came on, then dropped to the ground, already cooling, as a second las-bolt took it from the side.
I covered this in the 'connors energy weapon' analysis too. I'm bored so I'll jsut copy it:
my previous work wrote:Laspistol must be blowing a 30-40 cm hole trhough the torso... assuming a 1-2 cm diameter hole. 5-10 kj (equivalent to Luke Campbell battle laser nearly) for that. not including burns (15-20 kj maybe for 3rd degree burns?)


Page 135
"There was this greenie over that way making a latrine stop."
Orks do have a digestive tract, confirming 'Ragnar's Claw' at least in that respect. :P


Page 138-139
A second later my worst suspicions were confirmed, as a vivid green beam, the colour of a festering wound, ripped through the air with the all too vividly remembered sound of tearing cloth, striking one of the orks full on. In less than a second he seemed to dissolve, skin, muscle, and skeleton whipping away to vapour..
Gauss flayer, classic style, in effect. Total disintegration in a short period of time. Nowadays (and with varying bits of fluff or author) the effect is variable. The total body may not get disintegrated (for example), or holes may just get punched through shit (as we see later in the novel.) Why this is, we don't know. It may reflect differences in weapon design, different settings (full body disintegration may be the shotgun mode, for example.) or what ever.

The ability to disintegrate an Ork mass in a fraction of a second is still damn impressive even for a technobabble weapon, considering Orks mass hundreds of kilos easily.


Page 140
one of the ork bolts detonated against the power pack attached to the weapon of the leading automaton, and an instant later an explosion ripped apart both the weapon and the necron carrying it.
Whatever they do, Necron power sources for their weapons are seemingly volatile enough. We know from the Necron codex they're at least megawatt level power sources. And assuming they carry scores or hundreds of shots, we could figure tens to hundred of megajoules (They are sustained beam, technobabble weapons remember.) That means that the necron may have taken about half that energy in 'explosive' release to blow it apart (although not taking it down permanantly - self repair and all that.) It gives us a rough idea of what is needed to take them down (although correlating that is variable - omnidirectional explosive vs beam weapon is different, for example, but it might tell us how much is in a melta blast, for example.)

Given what we know of Tesla weapons circa 5th and related sources, this is not surprising.


Page 141
The ork’s triumph was short-lived, however, as the concerted beams of the two surviving necrons ripped it to vapour in a heartbeat.
Again Ork masses can be easily disintegrated by Gauss weapons. Note this is one of those cases where I don't take vapour literally (YES IT DOES HAPPEN!)


Page 140-141
Thick brackish blood poured from a gash which opened the creature from groin to shoulder blade, and the necron shook the eviscerated body from the end of its weapon...
...
Orks are remarkably resilient creatures, driven purely by rage and aggression, so I was scarcely surprised when the one left sprawling in a sorbet of its own blood suddenly grabbed the ankle of its erstwhile assailant and yanked hard on it with all its feral strength.
...

...the necron fell heavily, its right shin now detached from its knee joint.

Bellowing in triumph the ork began belabouring the fallen warrior with the stump of its own leg...
An indication of Orkish duraiblity (getting eviscerated, yet enduring long enough to rip off a Necron's leg and beat him with it repeatedly). Also amusing for the fact the Ork is beating the Necron to pieces with his own damn leg. Its just so bloody Orkish.


Page 147
..directed a searing jet of burning promethium...
...
..the one in front just kept coming, wreathed in steam from the snow which evaporated about him, charred bone becoming visible through the sizzling flesh.
Effects of Promethium. Burning flesh off bones significantly, implied of multiple orks (at least sevearl) and from a single blast of promethium. Again Promethium seems insanely energetic compared to real life fuels for what it can do (you need many many litres of real life fossil fuels - liquid or gaseous - to cremate a living body even at good effieicnies. Considering RL flamethrowres use a few litres per blast typically, that is.. impressive, even if only partial cremation were being achieved here. The fact a single ork - nevermind multiples - weighs several times more than a normal human and is tougher to boot only adds to this. )


PAge 147
...then fell back, an expression of pained surprise on his face as a bloody crater exploded in his chest.
..
(I’d seen enough bolter wounds in my time to know that such a hit would have been instantly fatal, smashing through the flak armour beneath his greatcoat to detonate inside his ribcage.)
Ork bolter penetrates flak, blows out chest. Not quite as powerful as other bolters, but pretty messy still.


Page 147
The heavy weapon hissed once more, flashing the intervening curtain of snow into vapour, and reducing the ork leader and the two standing next to him to a rank pile of gently steaming offal. The sole survivor turned, blinking in what looked like stunned stupefaction, its left arm hanging limp and charred from flash burns...
Figure 2 m tall, x1 m wide ork, and at least 3 orks 120,000 sq cm total, at 400 j per sq cm is 48 MJ at least for that. The flash burns are minor compared to that. Boiling would be 600 kg at 268 kj per kg is 160 MJ roughly. Double or triple digit MJ for the melta blast over an unspecified btu short period of time.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Part 3


Page 150
Then I nodded to my aide, stepped back, and he pulled the trigger. Lunt’s body boiled into vapour in a matter of seconds, helped by the volatile promethium left in the flamer tanks..
Melta. Cremation/vaporization level energies - hundreds of MJ to several GJ, although the fact that it was distinctly non-explosive and the promethium was included hampres any acutal calcs of it. Although ven if the promethium tanks had a significant amount of fuel remaining (despite multiple uses of it) we're talking some hefty (insane) energy content for promethium once again. Heck even calling it half and half the Melta can get into double/triple digit MJ for a 'seconds long' blast, the promethium tanks (assuming half full.. call it 10 or 15 kg/litres) contribute energy content per kg approaching hydrogen levels (and like with reaching escape velocity, far better than typical fossil fuels.)

Although to be fair, some 'wick effect' thing could be involved here (fat content.. Lunt was pretty stocky by description) could be contributing, but note as well tha tI'm assuming some ridiculously high efficiencies. It also goes without saying Cain's people had to stand some ways back when this happened :P



Page 150
Ironically this part of the archive appears to have been composed only a matter of months before the thirteenth Black Crusade engulfed most of the segmentum,
Sets a timeframe on things, and reinforces that the 13th Black crusade was pretty 'epic' in scope, as major battles go in 40K (most of a segmentum is significant, and it doesn't factor in they pulled in forces from across the Imperium to reinforce too. Whilst fighting the Tyranids, Orks, and Necrons. Oh and the tau.)



PAge 158
"I sub-vocalised, hearing the reassuring murmur of response from the rest of the team..
comm subvocalization.



Page 158-159
"Grenade!" Simla yelled, just before they detonated, and a storm of shrapnel ripped through the air. He fell backwards, ugly wounds peppering his body. Even the flak armour
beneath his greatcoat couldn’t stop all of the shards, and crimson stains began seeping across it as he tried to get to his feet. Hail was luckier, her partner taking most of the blast, but I could see her left arm was bleeding heavily and hung limply at her side. She leapt forward into the gap, screaming in anger, and fired her lasgun one-handed on full auto
Lasguns can be fired one handed, even on full auto, with reasonable chances of hitting in this case. Some lasguns have weird 'recoil' effects for some reason, but this example is actually useful, since recoil can be counter-productive for certain things like accuracy



Page 159
The greenskin bellowed in triumph, but it was short-lived as Magot and I shot it almost simultaneously, and it dropped, most of its head blown away.
Again to blow through the skull requires at least double digit kj (penetrate one side and out the other,) call it 10-20 kj per shot, although it might be skewed more toawards the rifle rather than pistol. Assuming a 20x20 cm head you could get double digit kj easily to 'blow' it apart (400-800 sq cm) would be 160-320 kj, again possibly more in the case of the rifle. Also covered in my older analysis.


Page 166
...seeing nothing but metal bodies receding to infinity, and gave up trying to calculate how many there were. Hundreds of thousands, at the very least, in this one chamber alone.
Cain tries to estimate Necorn numbers in a single tomb. There's multiple tombs, although we dont know how many. Hunreds of thousands ot millions is a good estimate though.



Page 167
Nothing in our inventory would even come close to doing the job, but an astropathic message to the nearest naval unit would bring a task force here within weeks, and a flotilla of battleships ought to be enough to level the continent. A couple of barrages from their lance batteries would be enough to excise this cancer, however deeply it was buried.

Of course the planet would be rendered uninhabitable for generations, but no one in their right mind would be willing to set foot here once the necron presence was known in any case, so the question was pretty moot.
Ah, the infamous 'caves of ice bombardment' calcs. How times have changed. Wy back when, this was so simple and straightforward in my mind. And with time, its gotten only more complicated and muddy. Of course, my knowledge pool of 40K has grown as well. The calcs are covered in my old thread whilst the thread to the revised battleship calc covers the 'revised' calcs. I'm not going to do calcs again, because simply covering the analysis of my analysis is huge, and will be covered in a separate posting at the end.

Page 168
Despite decades of intensive study by both the Ordo Xenos and the Adeptus Mechanicus the sensory mechanisms of the necrons remain a mystery. Sometimes they seem almost preternaturally able to detect an enemy, while at others, as in this instance, they overlook targets almost literally under their noses. At this time the Inquisition has no explanation to offer for this paradox, and if the Adeptus Mechanicus has one they’re not sharing it.
Amberley comments, referencing the 'old' Necron selectivity in registering intruders or such.
It's not the first time this has been enocuntered in Necrons either. Given all we know now (and then) about Necrons, it seems less about their sensory capabilities and more about their programming. Or rather lack of it. Some Necrons (at least) are little more than mindless robots (especially from the damaged Tomb Worlds that have lost their Lords) . Basically they do as programmed or directed, in the most literal minded sense. If some protocols are installed to deal with intruders (for example) they may notice and attack, but if they are programmed or directed in some other way, they may ignore anything not specifically outlined (or directed), such as intruders.

Also reflects the Admech interst in Necron tech, which is a recurring theme in this book.


PAge 170
..the metal seemed to flow together, healing their wounds by some sorcerous process...
...

An understanding which the Ordo Xenos would give a great deal to achieve, incidentally. It goes without saying that whatever inroads the Adeptus Mechanicus may have made into the problem, they’re keeping to themselves.
Necron self repair processes - rapid (relativley) healing against Ork weapons. Again, like with their detection capabilitie,s the Inquisition and AdMech both have an interest, although for differing reasons (and hinting at that dreaded RESEARCH aspect).


Page 171
..a moment’s reflection was enough to reassure me that no vessel could have emerged from the warp early enough to be here already without registering on the Pure of Heart’s sensor array long before we set out on our ambull hunt...
..
..my chronometer stubbornly insisted had been less than a day.
Timeframe to have passed for events. Also indicates Cain believes no ship could reach the inner system from a warp translation point (hundreds of millions to billions of km, roughly) within a day. Setting an uppper limit (at least for Imperial acceleration in this context) of 8 gees and 1.2% of c (assuming 1 AU distance and 24 hours) to ~350 gravities and ~.44c (40 AU, the distance from the earth to Pluto approximately, in a day.)

Cain also evidently believes the Necrons use the warp, but we have no real way of knowing how he would know or how reliable he is, so we can't just assume it is so.

(there is of course the reference to 5th edition, but thats open to inteprretation as I've mentioned.)




Page 178-179
This was disturbed at length by a vox message from deep in the lower galleries, so attenuated by the layers of intervening ice that I could scarcely discern it, and a moment’s perusal of the tactical slate was enough to confirm what I’d already deduced. The source of the message was far deeper than the most far-flung of our patrols.
...
The carrier wave was enough to lead us to the commissar’s party..
Tactical slate can apparently track/locate the units under Sulla's command (locator/becaons and mapping functions at least) as well as tracking units not in her direct command (in this case, Cain's) and enabling her to locate and follow such units. Inferring again that it can also receive other forms of data (which is hinted at in latter sources) relayed from orbit or other units, this could reinforce the earlier 'tactical net' bits. Rather high end by 40K standards, all told.


Page 183-184
..driven all but insane by the desire to examine such a rich cache of archeotech, and tried to picture a cabal of high-ranking tech-priests pulling strings to set up the mine over so tempting a prize.
..
If they even suspected such a thing existed they’d take any risk, however great, to get their sticky little mechadendrites on it. I’d learned that much at least from the Interims Prime debacle.
Again Cain comments on the AdMech's obsession with Necron tech. On one hand it shows they can (legitimately) be concerneda bout Xenos tech, so the views on that matter are not uniform across the Imperium (what is?)

It's also a reference to the more sinister connections between the AdMech and Necrons (or rather, the C'tan) evinced in the first codex (landing on Mars, the Deceiver and his ties ot the AdMech, the Dragon...)


Page 184-185
..and I wasn’t looking forward to the next few hours at all.

I got through them...
...
Even before I staggered off to the mess hall and bed, in that order, I’d roused the refinery’s resident astropath and sent the most urgently-worded communique I could to both the lord general’s office and the rather more guarded channels Amberley had suggested I use if I ever came across something which merited Inquisitorial attention.
...
..but to my vague disappointment (though complete lack of surprise given the time lag inherent in even the most urgent interstellar communications) neither had responded by the time the briefing was scheduled to start.
Implies a 'round trip' astropathic communication - presumably within a sector - sector HQ for Lord General, and probably for Ambereley's area of operations - is btween several tens (between two planets close by) and several hundred LY (appproximately across a subsector) takes no more than a couple hours, and porbably less. This implies a transit time on average of at LEAST high hundreds of thousands of c (close to half a million c at the outset) if not millions of c.



Page 185
My eye was drawn to it at once, searching for some sign of the gargant...

...
..I was sure I could make out a dark, hulking shape against the mountains in the distance which hadn’t been there before. Merciful Emperor, it was almost close enough to open fire on us, a handful of kilometres distant now.
Implied range for gargant On the horizon isn't too helpful nor is 'handful of kilometres' but we can guess at least a few km.. possibly as high as 20-30 km (line of sight to horizon, 80m tall gargant, and assuming it includes guns that are mounted on the very top of the hulk) Probably not quite that far but not impossible, we've known battle titans (and Imperators) to have 'horizon' ranges easily too. On the other hand, givne context, I'd guess half that or less is more likely.


Page 188
"Those are technical documents which fall under the purview of the Adeptus Mechanicus. You have no business dabbling in theological matters!"
...
"..that they are archive material, and therefore clearly the responsibility of the Administratum."
...
"Their care and maintenance, possibly."
..
"But interpretation and consultation are the business of those appointed to commune with the numinous, not some jumped-up inky-fingered quill-pusher!"
Territorial infighitng over responsibilities and power. Such is the nature of the Imperium and politics ruling all.


Page 191
"The portal"
...
"Hundreds of thousands of them would be let loose on the galaxy. We simply can’t allow that to happen."
..
"We have to call in the Navy to sterilise the whole site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure."
Cain comments on the navy 'sterilizing' the site, rather than the whole planet.


Page 192
"But the archeotech!"
...
"Think of the knowledge, the spiritual advancement of mankind that you’d be sacrificing."
again the Coggies obsessing over Necron tech.


Page 192
"The portal’s still active. Even if you called in your naval strike it would be left intact and functioning for months before a flotilla could get here, possibly even years."
Probable response time of Imperial navy force. Again this is not unknown, depending on circumstances and location, warp conditions, and the like. It also probably depends on the deployment patterns and readiness levels of the fleet. If they have to pull ships out of a naval reserve to deploy them, reading and crewing a ship can take quite a bit of time.



Page 198
"If I’m reading these energy spikes right the portal’s being activated roughly every seventeen minutes."
Mining colony's sensors can detect the Necron portal's activation, even through the ice and (rock) and such.


Page 200
..old school storm troopers (quite literally, they’d been together since the schola progenium assessors back on Valhalla...)
...
...one of the few teams to have remained single-sex following the amalgamation of the two former regiments which now made up the 597th, since there was no point rotating in replacements for the casualties they’d taken....
REALLY old school, I suspect. They dont seem to be wearing carapace but hav hellguns.. and yet they don't have backpack power sources either. Sort of a mix between 2nd and 3rd edition Stormies.

Also reference to the storm trooper contingents getting recruits (or perhaps to the regiment as a whole, up for debate in this context.) If its the stormies, it woudl explain the existence of dedicated storm trooper transports and the 2nd edition fluff about replacement.



Page 200
Schola-raised storm trooper squads generally fight better than most because they’ve been together so long and know each other so well that they share an instinctive rapport no outsider can ever fully share, but the downside of that is that once their numbers drop below a handful they become pretty much useless, and I’ve never understood why the Guard persists with the tradition.
..
Because the real reason for the practice is to provide properly indoctrinated foot soldiers for the Inquisition. Of course fewer than five per cent reach the exacting standards required, leaving the ones who don’t make the grade to be palmed off on the Guard.
Advantages and drawbacks to Stormtrooper training, wrt squad unity/cohesion and replacement. What happens when the storm troopers become 'ineffective' we don't know.

We also learn Cain doesnt know that the Guard gets what amount to the Inquisitorial castoffs WRT storm troopers, because the unit cohesion issue stems directly from them, as Amberley explains.

Last time I analyzed this, I mistakenly figured the five percent figure was the ratio of Stormies to Guardsmen, when in fact its the ratio of Inquistorial storm troopers ot IG storm troopers. In effect this is the 'crazy Guardsmen made into combat servitors' thing again - the Imperium's peculiar 'efficiency' in utilizing castoffs and such, If nothing else, tehre's corpse starch.


Page 201
In the constant round of rivalries and practical joke playing between the different factions in my days at the schola the storm trooper cadets were by far the most adept at sneaking into the other dorms and common rooms to make mischief, and always set the most inventive booby traps, although I still maintain we had the edge over them on the scrumball pitch. In fact the only team that ever regularly beat the commissar cadets were the novitiates of the Adepta Sororitas, who seemed to think the point of the game was sending the greatest number of opponents they could to the sanitorium rather than scoring goals.)
Cain reminiscing about his childhood in schola.. which actually sounds kinda cute, esp the sororitas on the play field vs commissars. I rather like Cain's take on the Sisters honestly, although I know many dont find it 'canonical'. Its also kind of bleak when you think these carefree, happy children (in theory so at least) are going to become fanatical minions of the Adeptus Terra/Imperial Creed when they grow up. Kinda.. sad that way.


Page 206-207
The shadow of that grim colossus was falling across us as we gazed in awe at it, the shrieks of thousands of tonnes of unlubricated metal sliding across one another as it tottered forward on unfeasibly stubby-looking legs...
Gargant massing a purported thousands of tonnes. Considering its 80 metres tall (Imperator-sized in other words) this would not be surprising.


Page 212
My aide was shining his luminator down a narrow cylinder punched into the ice lining the tunnel, about the width of my forearm and deep beyond the strength of the lamp he carried to pick out the end.
..
The only possible explanation was a stray gauss flayer shot striking the tunnel wall.
A gauss flayer which peculiarily punches a deep hole in inorganic matter, rather than the 'creeping disintegration' we got with the Orks.


Page 213
...it was carrots to credits...
reference to credits as a unit of currency again.


Page 213-214
Welard said calmly, and the surviving storm troopers unleashed a hail of hellgun fire against our attackers. The glare of the lasbolts impacting on the leading necron dazzled my eyes, then its chest gave way, seared and blasted by the precision volley, and it tumbled to the ice-slick floor....
...
The second necron lost its head, quite literally, and fell heavily across the first...
...
..the first metallic warrior we’d all thought destroyed was rising slowly to its feet again.
A fire team's worth of hellguns vs necrons. we know meltas can put them down permanantly, an exploding necron power source (tens to hundreds of MJ estimated) can too, and that a multi-gw (10-15 gigawatt IIRC) laser fence cannot. Bolter fire, if it strikes the right place, also can.

Now, all that told.. its hard to make an exact estimate. We dont know the parameters (diameter of laser fence, if its sustained or pulsed or always on or activates via proximity) and in the case of the exploison its focused vs omnidirectional (much smaller percentage of energy on a smaller are can penetrate and do damage, in other words.) And then there's the hit location - it could be less raw damage through volume of fire and more lucky hits putting them down (again like bolters.)

We could say hellguns can evidently put out greater than ten-15 gigawatts of power, conservatively (POWER, not energy. If its delivering it over a fraction of a second - and I suspect so, we could get much lower energy inputs. Over a microsecond of total energy dleiver,y we get 10-15 kj. Over a millisecond, 1 megajoule.) and we know its comparable to a bolter as far as penetration/localized damage seems to go (which makes sense in a way, and would fit with at leats the 10-15 kj estimate, broadly.) On the other hand we also dont know if 'volley' is a single shot or a burst, so there's also that. Its a lower limit in the 'gigawatt' case anyhow, but still.

There is of course the melta, but it takes down groups of Necrons, so its only absoribng a fraction of the energy, and there's still the 'area vs localized' damage thing beyond that and... its unlikely that most hellguns are anywhere close to a melta in yield unless we compare 'low end' melta vs high end hellgun or something. In any case as we see below, meltas are clearly overkill even if its part of the energy against a 'cron.,


Page 214
The flare of actinic energy stabbed my retina, even through my closed eyelids, and the roar of ice flashing instantly into steam echoed all around us. The air against my face was suddenly warm and wet...
...
..I could see nothing but puddles of molten metal surrounded by grotesque lumps of statuary, some of which still twitched, freezing almost at once into the rapidly-reforming ice.
Melta again mops the floor with Necrons in short order. And lots of them



PAge 219
On cue my aide unleashed another blast from his melta into the centre of the group, cutting a swathe through them as efficiently as before. Once again the necrons caught by the full force of the blast were simply annihilated, flashing into vapour as thoroughly as the victims of their own terrible weapons, while the ones at the fringe of that ravening burst of energy staggered, limbs and torsos seared and softened like candle wax.
Again, melta blast obliterates multiple necrons and forces them into escape teleport. Even proximity provides some thermal damage, much as with Orks.


Page 220
"The portal."
..
..an accompanying thunder crack of displaced air which rumbled and echoed through that city-sized cavern..
The portal cavern is described as 'city sized'.. hundreds of metres tall perhaps (if not more) and kilometers in diameter.


Page 221
I fired at the leading one, gouging a neat crater in the centre of its forehead.

Cain's laspistol, while doing fuck all to put it down, still can sort of damage a Pariah. Meltas still fuck them up though.


PAge 222-223
The pressure against my soul eased abruptly, as though cut off by the slamming of a door.
..
..they seemed to become mildly disorientated every time they approached our hiding place, veering off before they had come within a handful of metres of us, a deliverance I could only attribute to Jurgen’speculiar qualities.
..
The aura of terror projected by necron pariahs appears to be at least partly a psychic phenomenon, so it’s quite reasonable to assume that a blank would repel them and mask the effect.

However, since no other record exists of a blank coming into such close proximity to a group of pariahs, and they’re far too rare and valuable to risk in deliberately testing this hypothesis, it must remain conjectural
Discusson of Necorn Pariahs. It may be a reflection of their lack of a warp signature magnified to extreme levels (the discomfort people feel around Pariahs like Jurgen or Frauka, magnified into fear, like what a Culexus triggers.) Its odd that its explicitly psychic in nature, does this suggest the pariahs were indeed some sort of wapr abilit y(as hinted at by authors like James Swallow) rathre than a sort of power/effect completely anathema to the warp?


Page 225
began to falter. Even though almost two full companies had thus far been ferried up to the orbiting starship the converted civilian shuttles aboard the Pure of Heart simply weren’t up to the challenge of embarking an entire regiment in a matter of hours.
Limits on deployment time from the pure of heart. Its not a military transport, but still.


Page 226
..but so far she says the gropos...
..
A contraction of ’’ground pounders’’ a Navy term for the Imperial Guard units sometimes billeted aboard their warships. Less common among merchant crews, Durant’s use of it here implies that this wasn’t the first time the Pure of Heart had been pressed into service as a fleet auxiliary.
GROPOs. reminds me of B5. :P


Page 231-232
..it was a moment or two before our vision cleared enough to show us the metre-diameter hole he had successfully blasted in the wall of the conduit.
melta again, making a metre diameter hole in a conduit/pipe./


PAge 238
"How much is in the tanks at the moment?"

"Roughly eight million litres."
...
"Since the tankers can’t land with the orks about it’s built up rather."
Honestly.. eight million litres doesn't seem like much. assuming 1 litre per cubic metre, thats little more than a 200 x 200 x 200 metre box Probably worse, Consider that 1 litre of water weighs about a kilogram, and most fossil fules I recall is a bit less than that. Even if Promethium was liquid mercury as far as density goes.. its not really all that much. It gets even more absurd when we talk about the multi-gigaton FAEs, because it implies promethium is NUKULAR. Which, it might be. we've seen crazier things in 40K after all.

in any case we noted long before that the orks had been around for several weeks ot several months, implying that transports came by in that timeframe or less (routinely) to pick it up. That would be an annual pickup of tens to hundreds of millions of litres. Of course less than 8000 tons of promethium...Note that here The united states alone uses some 300 million gallons of gasoline each day. figuring 3-4 kg per gallon for gas, thats close to a million tons daily.

Overall I tend to think they're drastically underestimating the quantity.


Page 239-240
A torrent of liquid became momentarily visible, filling the width of the gallery, sweeping all before it, tearing chunks of ice the size of Baneblades from the walls as it came and tumbling them casually ahead of itself.
..
Then the pictcaster was ripped from its mounting, and the screen went dark.
..
.. [necrons] trapped by the onrushing tsunami, picked up and thrown around like so many rag dolls.
..
..I wondered if they’d fade away, smashed to pieces by that irresistible tide of pure promethium. Much good would it do them if they did, their tomb was at the lowest point of the tunnel complex and would surely flood in time...
Yeah, that certainly SOUNDS like a mere 8 million litres flooding the underlevels of the mining ocmplex. Again note that Cain indicates the necron tomb is located in the lowest part of the mine, which again corresponds to the necron tomb being hundreds of metres (at a bare minimum) and more probably several kilometres below the ice. I really don't know how much clearer it could get short of flat out saying it, but you can't please everyone.


Page 240
..which time with any luck the Navy would be here to sterilise the planet.
mention this time of sterilizing the planet. I've commented on this re: The lance stirkes before.


Page 243
Despite the great rents in its metre-thick armour plate..
Gargant armor thickness.


Page 244
Broklaw ordered the Chimera crews, and dozens of heavy bolters began to hose down the looming tower of metal...
It's mentioned there are 600 troops remaining on the ground, so that gives an approxmiation of how many Chimeras the 597th had. Enough for perhaps a third to half the regiment total.


PAge 247
I kept an amplivisor trained on the edge of the complex,...
High tech binocs, basically.


PAge 247
Rumour among the regiment had it that he’d once aspired to become a tech-priest but been expelled from the seminary for his morbid fascination with pyrotechnics, and he certainly seemed to have an almost instinctive understanding of the arcane technologies of the combat engineer.


You can fail to become a techpriest and.. live. This may account for the various 'technically curious/proficient' non-AdMech types we run across in the fluff from time to time (or the sorts who do the illicit modifications to vehicles and gear and such.)

The person being spoken of is Federer, the guy who runs the engineering/sapper detachment mentioned before.


Page 248-249
"After all, it’s going to be a pretty big bang."
..
"Huge. Massive in fact. On the order of gigatonnes."
...
"We didn’t place anything remotely that powerful." Kasteen said, looking vaguely stunned. "We’d have blown ourselves to pieces along with the gargant."
...
"That was before the commissar flooded the mine with promethium."
...
"The liquid will have settled to the bottom levels by now. That means the upper galleries would be full of vapour. In effect you’ve created an FAE bomb several kilometres wide."
Federer describes the FAE (mentioned below) going off. He says its 'on the order of gigatons' abut how approximate that is we don't know.

It's interesting how he also describes it as a 'FAE several km wide' Which if it suggested diameter (possible, but uncertain) would fit with the approximate depth of the mines, although that much depth would also suggest far more than a mere 8 million litres.

Assuming a 2 gigaton FAE and the space gas is as dense as water (liquid so approximately so) you get... ~1e12 J per kg. Which is closer to uranium energy densities than it is to anything remotely chemical. Or perhaps something like a nuclear isomer - some of which had about that sort of energy density. We know starships can run on promethium (or other things), so it could be a 'diesel fusion'-esque process (which is my favorite term for 'magically weird fusion silliness I borrowed from critics because it was a silly theory. Unfortunatley 40K authors seem to have taken it literally. :P) Otherwise, as noted, the amount of fuel present must be far greater (on the order of tens of millions of tons of fuel.)

Alternately, assuming a 3 km diameter sphere encompassing the 'vapor', and ignoring the fact that its not all empty space (but tunnels dug in rock) you get 'only' 560 MJ per cubic metre.. which is well over an order of magnitude more than most liquid or gaseous fuels. Its actually closer in volume to coal (600-900 kg per cubic meter, and 15-30 MJ per kg) Which might suggest promethium is unusually dense, but that would only help in the volumetric respect, not 'per unit mass' respect, which is also problematic. This may again reinforce the 'nuclear' aspect of promethium fuel I've alluded to before, especially considering the estimat above is more likely conservative rather than generous. Of course, if we assume 'several' km is very loosely translated, we can actually make this much work out, too, but there's stillt he whole 'litres' aspect, and I dont think we can contrive an insanely ultra-dense liquid compound.

It is also worth noting that they're not exactly shocked or disbelieving about the existence of a multi-gigaton explosion. Indeed, FEderer himself seems familiar with them, and Kasteen's comment suggests that such munitions (or magnitude of suhc munitions) does exist. We don't know much beyond that, or the source (it could be from the navy) but we can infer that its fairly man portable (a 1000 man regiment, most of whom were involved in fighting orks, and a 600 man miner team and probably even fewer techpriests, would be able to carry it.) Its ceartinly at least nucelar grade (kiloton to megaton) since its unliekly they just have billions of tons of high explosive lying around for no purpose (and even if they could, there's no way to move millions of tons per hour undeground to prepare it.) Indeed even with hundreds of thousands of separate munitions you'd still have kilotons, and thousands (or hundreds) would be megatons. Overall, its suggestive of mutli-gigaton firepower of some kind (and one familiar enough to the guard) existing, rather than being some unusual, super rare occurance. :P


Page 249
Fuel Air Explosive, a type of bomb which releases a volatile gas before detonation to magnify its power and area of effect
FAEs exist in the Imperium.


Page 250
They were a long way from actually breaching it, shuttle hulls are sturdy to say the least, but the fact that they were able to inflict any damage at all spoke volumes for the power of the weapons they carried.
Necron Destroyer weapons and a comment on their power. Suggests space-going shuttles would normally be immune to ground based/man portable weapons (at least most kinds) and Necron weapons are in excess of this. not terribly surprising, given the 3rd edition necron codex specifying how Destroyer beams can core a Land Raider, either. Clearly this means a simple cargo shuttle is MUCH tougher than a Land Raider as well (at least 4-6 times, since a Destroyer's gauss beam can punch through both sides of a Land Raider hull effortlessly, and this shuttle is shrugging off multiple such hits.)


Page 252-253
Deep in the bowels of the pit a sudden flare of light erupted as the promethium vapour trapped in the caverns below ignited. A gout of flame fully a kilometre in height burst from the rupturing ground and raced across the snowscape at the speed of thought, melting the fleeing warriors in an instant, throwing blazing fissures ahead of itself as it went.

There were other explosions now too, the entire surface of the valley erupting like pyroclasts, vaporised rock, ice, andnecrons forming a low, looming cloud riven with thunderbolts as electrostatic discharges of incredible power jumped between the particles.
...
"Brace for impact!" Durant called out, as though this were just a minor inconvenience, and the Pure of Heart was suddenly picked up and shaken like a child’s toy by the titanic shockwave as the very atmosphere of the planet bulged under the force of the energies released. Even the crew grabbed for handholds, and I found myself bracing Kasteen, who had fallen back against me...
...
...the shuddering gradually ceased. She grinned again, and I began to suspect she enjoyed the chance to push the limits of her engines.

"Lucky we were so high. If we’d been down where the atmosphere’s thicker it would have been a bit trickier."

..
Even from orbit the dust cloud could still be seen staining half the planet..
Amazing what a mere 8 million litres of Space Gas can do, isn't it? :D We see the effects of the explosion - massive crater (of unspecified size, but not punching through the crust exactly, so that could be limiting. We're not talking huge numbers of teratons or even close to petatons after all.) possibly 'vaporized' ice and soil, but more likely partiuclar matter rather than superheated ejecta in this case (no firestorms.) But there is a big ass shockwave that is powerful enough to physically shake a starship hard enough to knock people over. We're probably talking very high altitude where the atmosphere is thin (well beyone 50, and probably 100 kilometers) and more likely in low orbit (a couple hundred km) which is incredible distance for even a diluted blast to strike.

Assuming a 1 km long vessel analogues to the 'Viper class sloop' from Battlefleet Koronus (950 metres long, 250m abeam and nearly 5 million tons). Assume 1-2 m/s 'acceleration' from the blast wave, although sending people knocked over woudl seem more severe than that.. we get 5e9 newton-seconds (kg*m/s) of momentum imparted. Assuming it was a full second's blast (just to be lazy) we get ~3 psi roughly. for 1 m/s of acceleration, twice that for 2m/s.

That could correspond to roughly the 4.6 psi overpressure associated with an atmospheric nucllear detonation. Assuming a 50-100 km blast radius you'd get within single digit gigatons (2 gigatons would be ~90 km radius, 10 gigatons would be ~150 km radius.) which does fit. This is, unsurprisingly, conservative. For one thing it if the blast is more violent the psi go up, and its quite possible that the ship masses are considerably more than what FFG implies (as I've mentioned before in rogue Trader - if for no other reason we dont know fuel/mass ratios and such.) If the psi were closer to, say, 20 than 4.6, we get into the double digit gigatons scale, possibly very even several hundred gigatons if the ship is just beyond the edge of the atmosphere. Of course, thats still FAR from teratons of course but there was acutally a fairly remote chance of that possible anyhow :D

Inteestingly, the double/triple digit GT range would quite probably create widespread dust loading as described in the passage (probably not as much as an asteroid impact, but close), so that may be a secondary confirmation. In any case, it is at least single digit, and quite likely more (double digit) of the horrid GIGATONS.

Incidentally its quite possible at the ranges mentioned the thermal radiation pulse would be around a megajoule or two per square metre (it causes 3rd degree burns out to some hundreds of km), meaning the starship would get hit with tens or hundreds of gigajoules depending on facing and such. We dont know if shields are up or not.


Page 253
At least that particular nest appears to have been dealt with...
..
Subsequent examination of the site showed no signs of an active necron presence, although if anything was left of their installation it would have been buried far too deeply to have left much trace of anything. I for one would not be at all keen to start digging holes to find out for sure.
It has been suggested that the FAE totally destroyed the Necron Tomb (Ajnd that it was a tiny one at that) This tend to suggest that the Imperials themselves - even the Inquisition - aren't so sure and think its possible the Necrons might have survived (been even deeper buried, at that.) Which is probably why Cain wanted to call in a Navy strike (hence his 'however deeply buried' comment) Indeed, given that in 'Dead Men Walking' we learn the planet WAS destroyed due to the necron infestation, and that by no stretch of the imagination would a single 'gigaton' range FAE be enough to destroy a planet (maybe if it was a super-volcano it might..) It ssems to suggest a good chance the Necrons may have been damaged, delayed, or crippled by the FAE, but not wholly destroyed. In any event it doesnt matter what the reality is, as all that matters is what the Imperium believed, which dictated their response.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Now the Cain short story 'Echoes from the tomb' alogn with extra commentary WRT the 'bombardment' :P

First, Echoes from the Tomb. Again this is the short story form the 'Hero of the Imperium' omnibus.

Page 271
By the end of 928 my undeserved reputation for heroism had grown to such a ridiculous level..
An indication of the timeframe of these events. Using this as a rough benchmark one can try to place Cain's other events based off info from the other novels, if one wished.


Page 271
..emerging on every occasion trailing clouds of undeserved glory, so that to the sector at large I seemed to be the very epitome of the swashbuckling hero that commissars are generally considered not to be.
Cain's events and reputation seem (at this point at least) to be largely confined to a sector, which is pretty widespread when you think about it. Going by events later on, its possible to argue he achieves far more widespread acclaim.


PAge 272
.. someone was needed to liaise with an Astartes company which was campaigning alongside the Guard in a routine action to clear some heretics off an agriworld on the spinward fringes of our sector decided to volunteer for the job. After my last little jaunt, rescuing some hostages from an eldar pirate base, I thought a bit of quiet diplomacy would be just the change of pace I needed.
Again Commissars serve a diplomatic as well as psychological (manipulative) role, which we've seen in other cases (most extreme of course being serving as 'voices of reason' for Krieg meatdroids.)
Also IG tasks can involve rescuing hostages (and the fact the Eldar may take hostages. Or at least the corsairs do.)


Page 273
"You should reach the Viridian system in about a month."
We dont know how far away it is (except its within the sector) and the exact means of transport, but assuming between 10 and 200 light years we get between 120 and 2400c roughly, which is consistently within the range for 'inter-sector' travle speeds.


PAge 273
Instead of a troopship or a supply vessel, both of which I was intimately acquainted with after all my years of shuffling from one warzone to the next..
Apparently Cain (and presumably the guy he was talking with before) were figuring he would take a troop ship or supply vessel, which may indicate the vessel the travel time above applies to.


PAge 274
"The next scheduled departure for Viridia is in another three weeks. Allowing for the wait before the barge arrives in orbit around Interitus Prime, you should be there about..."
...
On the one hand I'd be spending an extra three weeks on a roundabout voyage to Emperor-knew-where..
3 weeks to travel to a new destination aboard an AdMech starship.


Page 275
"The whole system was surveyed by explorators back in the twenty-eighth millennium. "
..
"Your records go back that far?" I couldn't keep an edge of incredulity from my voice. That was the all but unimaginable golden age when the Emperor still walked among men and the Imperium was young and vigourous, its domination of the galaxy uncontested, instead of being riven by heresy and threatened on all sides by malevolent powers.
This is probably not accurate, since we know the Great Crusade spaned centuries and not millenia, and was active much later (circa 30th millenium.) Of course, 10 thousand years later, whose to tell what was and wasn't true then? The Imperium was never the best at keeping accurate records :P


Page 276
There wasn't much which would drag a ship full of cogboys halfway across the sector..
Halfway across the sector for the AdMech ship. That means ~100 light years or so in 3 weeks, which comes out to ~1733c for a straight line course (which it probably isn't, but covers it reasonably well as an order of magnitude estimate).


Page 278
..I'd be transferring to the Reclaimers' battle barge and leaving this system forever within a day or two.
Which owuld imply it would take less than 'a day or two' to travel insystem, and that assumes its measuring from the time the ship arrives from the warp (which we know it doesn't, given it arrives later.) At 2 AU and 2 days, it would require 4 gees of constant burn and 1.14% of c max velocity, 2 AU in one day would be 15 gees and 2.2% of lightspeed. 1 AU would be half that, incidentally :P
At 10 AU 2 days is 20 gees and 5.7% of c max velocity, in one day its 80 gees and 11.3% of lightspeed.


Page 279-280
We were sinking gently into one of those titanic rifts in the planet's surface, already at least a couple of hundred metres below ground level. "How far down does this go?"

"About eight hundred kilometres," Killian said casually. "It's the deepest chasm on the planet."
..
....the running lights of the shuttle were enough to let me pick out a few of the details of that incredible fissure. Layer after layer of different strata slipped past the porthole, subtle graduations of hue marking the ticks of some long wound-down geological clock, and a couple of times I thought I caught a glimpse of something white, fossils perhaps, of creatures already extinct for millions of years before their planet died in its turn.
AHAHAHHA. The Necron 'tomb' or at least wherever the portal is.. is apparently EIGHT HUNDRED KILOMETRES below ground. Its a dead planet too and evidently has been for some time so... hooray I suppose. this probably means that the Tomb was located somewhere in the mantle, although whether this was when the planet was still living or if it was dead we don't know. And that assumes it has the same composition as EArth, for that matter. Mainly, I'm just amused by the whole depth thing, given the whole 'Necron Tomb depth' in Caves of Ice. If this is possible small wonder they're concerned about blasting deep to potentially reach a tomb!
Even if we somehow assume that the Magos is wrong, we can infer hes many kilometres or tens of kilometres beneath the planet at least!


Page 281
"I didn't think you'd been here long enough to create an atmosphere."
..
"We haven't."
Implying the AdMech has the ability to create an atmosphere on a planet. Whether this is indicative of terraforming or not, I don't know.



Page 283
"I dare say we could rig something up. Possibly a fusion bottle..."
Context, to recharge a Necron scarab. apparently the AdMech have access to portable (pure) fusion generators.



Page 285
"We're picking up a discharge of warp energy. It looks like the Astartes are here already."
...
"The Astartes ship will be here soon, and it ought to be more than a match for these raiders."
As I noted before, the Battle barge hadn't arrived yet. Which implies (given the context of events happening to Cain) the Battle Barge takes less than a day to reach in-system (given that Cain gets resecued by the Reclaimers as they attack the Necron starship in orbit.) hinting at closer to tens of gees accel and at least a few percent of lightspeed velocity.



PAge 286
The metallic carpet which surged towards us was composed of miniature duplicates of the spider machine, thousands of them, and the las-bolts detonated in the middle of the swarm with about as much effect as if I'd been throwing stones. True, every shot was rewarded with a satisfying impact and a spray of metal..
Lasbolts seemingly detonating scarabs. Without knowing exact sizes (and the nature of living metal) its hard to calc really. Assuming steel composition and they're at least a few cm across, we might figure a couple kilojoules at least, but that's purely a guess.


Page 286
..within seconds we'd been joined by half a score of his redshirts..
Tech Guard referred to as Redshirts. Hilarious trek reference FTW.


PAge 287
One of the troopers was gibbering in shock, his face white, at least the parts of it which were still composed of flesh.
..
The trooper was still firing, his finger clamped on the trigger in a rictus of panic..
Guess these tech-guard (and techpriests for that matter) hadn't had their emotions purged like some do, since they clearly feel terror (contrasted with other examples like, say, Dark Adeptus.)


Page 288
.. a bolt of vivid green light enveloped him. For a moment I could see a bloody mess of internal organs as he seemed to fade away from the outside in, dwindling like candle wax, and then he was gone as though he'd never existed.
Gauss weaponry in action. Seems more 'vanishy' type disintegration rather than dissolving.



Page 288
To give them their due the tech guards gave a good account of themselves in the main, their hellguns felling two or three of their assailants, but it seemed to take a lot of fire to down one. I even saw one with its chest blown open stir and rise to its feet again, the eldritch metal of which it was composed flowing like liquid to heal its wounds.
Hellguns vs Necrons again. Much as in Caves of Ice, we see they're rather effective at damaging Necrons.. but not permanantly so. we dont know if it was a single salvo that blew the chest open or multiple shots, and even then we can't calc it accurately anyohw., I guess if we assumed iron it could be double or triple digit kj depending on how many shots and such... but thats again pure conjecture.



Page 289
"A warp portal!"
..
"We've known it's a theoretical possibility of course, but..."
The Techpriest thinks the Necrons use warp portals. Which we know they don't but.. wthey dont really understand much about Necron tech anyhow, so its not a massive contradiction really.


Page 289
As I unleashed a flurry of las-bolts at the nearest figure I could see that its torso was already damaged, a couple of holes punched through it by what looked like armour piercing rounds. I hadn't noticed any bolters among the tech guards' armoury, but I was glad of somebody's foresight as one of my rounds entered the gap and blew the automaton apart from the inside.
Apparently Necrons were vulnerable to bolters or some sort of AP slugthrower, as an unhealed hole let Cain blow apart a Necron with a single shot that breaches the defenses. Probably from detonating some sort of internal power source, rather than by brute force though. Still, this indicates that a las-bolt is equal to or smaller in diameter/spot size than a bullet of some kind, which would fit reaosnably with the '5mm' interpreation from the Ghosts for example. If its a bolter we migth figure ~20mm which would be closer to the 'finger sized' holes sometimes ascribed to lasbolts.

***

And now the rest of the Caves of Ice stuff, then I'm (hopefully) done with this at last (probably not :P) I manly decided to dump it hre because it would have inflated the quote more than even I want to normally do :P


Oh the comedy of this passage. It has caused much amusement and uproar since I did it all those years ago, mainyl for the dreaded BIGGATONS.
Oh, how do I cover all the little quibbles. First the 'flotilla'. I've heard it argued that the flotilla of battleships could have been much larger than I'd defined per BFG (with references to 'flotilla' references from Eisenhorn and others.) There are indeed 'larger' flotillas, but bear in mind that they typically are mixed formations (and comprised of vessels much smaller than battleships) so even if we increased the number, the fact that the larger proportion would be weaker vessels would offset this difference (I assumed ONLY battleships remember, and eight battleship flotillas are damn unlikely in battlefleets unless we go with some of the more generous battlefleet estimates.) In any case, its unlikely that the formations would be larger than scores - huge formations of hundreds of warships, much less thousands, are unusual (cf battle of gethsemane in Gothic war.)
There's the issue of 'barrages' - whilse per shot has some ambiguity (as in we know lance durations can be fractions of a second, or seconds long) some have seriously argued that they are back to back hours (or days) long bombardments being described, even though that would be distinct from two separate barrages (one sustained, prolonged bombardment, but logic never enters into these much.) More to the point, why would these ships engage in hours long bombardments in a vital mission with only a fraction of their armament? Pure-lance armaments tend to be comparatively rare for battleships and other vessels (and less powerful than weapons batteries at that.) so if it was a prolonged bombardment it would make sense to bring ALL your weapons into play to shorten the duration as much as possible. Even if we did allow for that, we know from Warp STorm that lances on a battleship typically do not last past 13 hours or so without modification. And if that weren't enough, there's the likelihood we could treat it as an exterminatus, in which case I can just bring the 'hours' to bear. If I wanted to be pedantic I could also point out in various FFG sources (black Crusade core rules, Battlefleet Koronus) where a single Grand Cruiser (in BFK and Black Crusade) demolished a continent in a single barrage (or therabouts) or a 'concentrated bombardment' form a battlegroup could decimate a continent (again BFK.) But I suspect they would get nitpicked also. :P
And while you can argue somewhat for extended timeframes up to a point, I'd also point out that the definition of 'uninhabitable' is quite broad. remember, the existence of underground cities, hives, and void stations (or whole moons) points to a considerable ability for the Imperium to colonize many sorts of hostile terrain. So to really make a planet uninhabitable (at least for generations) would require disrupting the surface in some way, blasting it into a suborbit (or low orbit, so it gradually falls back down), or melting it, or perhaps both. Heck, vaporizing all the ice alone is going to considerably up the calcs. Hell when you look at it this way, my overly literal interpretation was far more conservative :P Indeed the ability to inhabit worlds that have been 'wiped out' via nuclear, viral, or similar devastation (like Tallarn, Krieg, or Valhalla) by underground habitation, or in cases of industrial shitholes like Necromunda, suggest the level of devastation required to make it uninhabitable are considerably greater.
Which leads to the second bit of hilarity here, in which someone once argued that the 'multi-gigaton' FAE proved that they didn't need much firepower to take out the Necrons, the necrons weren't deeply buried, etc. Which is pretty silly. we've seen Necron tombs in the Word Bearers series, Soul drinkers series, etc. and they're pretty damn deeply buried. Even 'minor' holdings like the one in 'Black Crusade: hand of corruption' or Nightbringer. The former has kilometres deep mines, with the necrons extending many kilometres deeper yet over a significant portion (tens of km at least IIRC) of a region. The latter had a 10 km deep necron tomb (well Nightbringer purportedly, but close enough). Or the 'miles deep' tombs mentioned in the 5th edition codex. There's also an article from a White Dwarf (287 I think, I should post the excerpts) that has a whole planet which includes continent-sized tombs as I recall, and they discuss destroying the entire planet (by dropping torps to burrow through the crust and destabilize the core) to destroy the tomb world. I could go on, but there's also the simple fact they explicitly mention levelling the continent AND rendering the planet uninhabitable, which a multi-gigaton lance strike is unliekly to do (unless its a whole buttload of gigatons.) Again, hilarity.
There is also the varied exterminatus references that involve boiling or vaporizing oceans, removing life down to the bacteria level (CF innocence proves nothing, and so on.) I would also add that the novel 'Dead Men Walking ' (also a necron story) explicitly mentioned Simia Orichalcae, and mentioned that the plante had been 'destroyed' to contain the threat therein. Which, again fits more in line with MY definition of things more than anything, but I've gotten used to such consistency by now. Heck, we know from 'Deathwatch: Outer REach" that the 'War in Heaven' factions fighting the Necrons attempted to destroy a tomb world by hurling a giant rock at it, which was intended to shatter the planet to destroy the tombs. It failed, and 'merely' vaporized a great many oceans and caused massive tectonic upheavals and such. Necron defenses preserved them against the attack. How utterly coincidental!
I could go on and on, I could probably redo the calcs yet again, although it really doesn't matter. any new calcs I could do based on the information woudl not dramatically cahnge things. I've gotten years past the point that individual calcs matter to me, and this simply reprensets one possible interpretation amongst the myriad that represent a broad 'gigatons/teratons' firepower potential - at least when it comes to fucking up planets. How it translates into other matters is a whole nother story.

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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Darmalus »

I remember reading this book, and I had a thought on promethium. IIRC, a necron gun has a compartment with leftover goo from the people they zap. Well, what if way back when they exterminated all those worlds, they just dumped that excess goo into convenient pits to keep it out of the way, and over eons of hibernation that goo turned into promethium? Then you could have promethium anywhere with life at one point, like Carl Sagan's gas giant gasbag animals.
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Re: Ciaphas Cain novels analysis/discussion thread (revisite

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Thats a fun if morbid idea. It probably could work, given that one of the many things the Imperium runs is people (mortal fuel and all that. Hah hah I made a pun.) Although we do know they run on biogas too (or wood, or whatever organics they can find.)

you can even get a sort of precedent from this. The Imperium has colonized a number of Necron-held worlds before and mined Necron materials without realizing it.
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