Good Military Science Fiction.

[Dr Roberts]

Can anybody recommend me some good Military Sci-Fi in any format?

[Stark]

Define 'Military Science Fiction'.

[Connor MacLeod]

I was going to say define 'good' military science fiction, as in what you're looking for in it. I mean if you're not picky theres tons of stuff I could recommend from either 40K, or there's always tons of anime series that are great 'military' sci fi.

[jollyreaper]

See other thread.

You can be looking for something thought-provoking or a guilty pleasure.

Just taking a wild stab at what you're looking for, the Old Man's War series is very well-received. I would advise you not spoil yourself too much before diving in. The audiobooks for it are top-notch. The characters all felt very human though I did manage to distract myself a bit with the logic behind colonization in this setting.

[Ahriman238]

Giving some hint as to your preferences, perhaps books you've enjoyed before, would really, really help things.

I just finished the 'Pantheon' trilogy (but they're four now, and very different books from each other) and may as well recommend Age of Zeus. The Greek Gods (sort of) conquer the world and sic the monsters of myth on anyone that gives them trouble. Or just flatten them personally, as they apparently did to most militaries, and Hong Kong as a show of force. A bunch of people with police/military training and a beef with the Gods are recruited by a wealthy arms dealer a decade into the Pax Olympia to become monster-and-god-hunting, power-armored TITANs.

I know how it sounds but all the action parts are well written, the characters decent but the pseudo-science explanations for the Gods' and monsters' powers is admittedly less so.

[Dr Roberts]

Science Fiction Set in a war. Using at least semi-realistic tactics. Science can be as hard or soft as you like. I would prefer ones with well written characters.

[Stark]

Science Fiction Set in a war. Using at least semi-realistic tactics. Science can be as hard or soft as you like.

Do you mean Badman Actual pinned the enemy militia with deadly accurate fire from their TURD-34 laser microfusion sweeper rifles while Admiral Freelancer slewed the TADS of his space AEGIS cruiser to deploy Interim Space Denial Munitions into the space communist creche? Or just scifi that isn't based on exploration? What if its set in a war and tells a story about Space Pride and Prejudice? I mean you're drawing a pretty broad category here: War of the Worlds? The Forever War? Gundam Seed? Gears of War? What about stuff about military Bravo Seven Niner is in killbox Burnt Toast but doesn't have an actual war in progress, like Ghost in the Shell, Splinter Cell, Aliens, Iron Giant, etc? What about 'science fiction set in a war' that has an overtly pacifistic theme?

Itd be much easier if you could talk about the style or examples of what you want. Do you want wish fulfillment where Burt Manlius causes a lot of orgasms explosions? Do you want dry repetitions of proper door-clearing procedure and infodumps about space iron production? Do you want confronting exposes of the hidden human cost of war? Do you want hard men making tough decisions to save the day?

I would prefer ones with well written characters.

Do you have any examples? Characters are easily the hardest thing about fiction to recommend, since the vast majority of people who read fiction want accessible self-insert characters and not disturbing or complex protaganists.

[Havok]

Do you mean Badman Actual pinned the enemy militia with deadly accurate fire from their TURD-34 laser microfusion sweeper rifles while Admiral Freelancer slewed the TADS of his space AEGIS cruiser to deploy Interim Space Denial Munitions into the space communist creche? Or just scifi that isn't based on exploration? What if its set in a war and tells a story about Space Pride and Prejudice? I mean you're drawing a pretty broad category here: War of the Worlds? The Forever War? Gundam Seed? Gears of War? What about stuff about military Bravo Seven Niner is in killbox Burnt Toast but doesn't have an actual war in progress, like Ghost in the Shell, Splinter Cell, Aliens, Iron Giant, etc? What about 'science fiction set in a war' that has an overtly pacifistic theme?

Itd be much easier if you could talk about the style or examples of what you want. Do you want wish fulfillment where Burt Manlius causes a lot of orgasms explosions? Do you want dry repetitions of proper door-clearing procedure and infodumps about space iron production? Do you want confronting exposes of the hidden human cost of war? Do you want hard men making tough decisions to save the day?

I when you talk like this.

[Connor MacLeod]

Science Fiction Set in a war. Using at least semi-realistic tactics. Science can be as hard or soft as you like. I would prefer ones with well written characters.

by 'realistic' do you mean 'its modern military with lazors' or do you mean 'they attempt to explain military shit in a sensibly, internally consistent manner in-universe?" People have a wide range of what they think of as 'realistic' when it comes to shit like tactics the same way they do as technology, and it depends on alot of factors (people who go for 'modern tactics with lazors' will not always think that 'internally consistent' is 'realistic' for example.)

[Havok]

I think he wants Blackhawk Down with aliens.

[Stark]

What about Blackhawk Down with giant robots? :V

[Havok]

Man, that would be sweet.

[Connor MacLeod]

I think he wants Blackhawk Down with aliens.

maybe, but I'm actually curious to see how he responds, because on one hand he seems to be open to different things, but the way he uses certian words (like 'realistic') makes me think he's under the belief that certain concepts are universally adhered to by sci fi fandom when that probably isn't the case. My definition of 'realism' for example has become pretty broad (for example I consider Gundam to be 'realistic' by a certain definition of realism.)

[Dr Roberts]

By "realistic" I mean that if they have a war winning weapon and no reason not to then they should damn well use it. Also not a setting where someone wins a battle by complete luck and is then hailed as a Military Genius.

[Stark]

It's funny you say things like that because

For me, military science-fiction is science-fiction which is written about a military situation with a fundamental understanding of how military lifestyles and characters differ from civilian lifestyles and characters. It is science-fiction which attempts to realistically portray the military within a science-fiction context. It is not 'bug shoots'. It is about human beings, and members of other species, caught up in warfare and carnage. It isn't an excuse for simplistic solutions to problems.

So go watch 08th MS team. It's all about super weapons people are ruthlessly using ... And how they're ultimately a futile waste of life.

[Ahriman238]

Consider Phlebas or Use of Weapons, the Culture books by Ian Banks. Look to Windward if you're curious why a culture possessing weapons of incredible power, with powerful and determined enemies, might choose not to use them.

[Connor MacLeod]

By "realistic" I mean that if they have a war winning weapon and no reason not to then they should damn well use it.

Also not a setting where someone wins a battle by complete luck and is then hailed as a Military Genius.

Then you probably want to avoid the Miles Vorkosigan series. Pity, because its rather enjoyable. You're probably looking more along the lines of Baen, or Bill Baldwin, or Jack Campbells 'lost fleet' stuff, although again fitting those tow definitions doesn't mean they'e not 'stupid' for other reasons (and tehre are a number of reasons for them to be annoying, but they're broadly milscifi, and they have peopel generally using the weapons they develop, irrespective of the value of the weapons.) David Drake's books might be more up your alley than say David WEber or John Ringo isnce they're 'less stupid.'

Otherwise go with something in the Gundam vein, or Legend of the Galactic heroes, or something like that.

[Connor MacLeod]

Incidentally Stark thats an interetsing quote from David Weber, where'd ya find it?

[Stark]

Would you believe the wiki page for 'military science fiction'? That's (apparently) what 08th MS team is. ACCORDING TO THIS EDITOR.

[Connor MacLeod]

I really dont know what to think of that page, really. so much of that being unsourced... The talk page is even worse...

Also Webers quote is interesting given that he seems to have gone in the complete opposite direction of what he intended with his recent works. He presents his work in a more thematic context, which it was in the earlier books, but the infodumping has pretty much crowded that out. Ironically I think its that 'realistic' thing that killed it.. in trying to portray the military lifestyle he got so caught up in teh details and just the details he forgot the human/emotional aspects (like loss, or the horrible things that suffer in war, etc.)

[Alkaloid]

The most frustrating thing I found about Weber was that he set up a whole suite of classic characters or character concepts and then just abandoned them or used them incredibly poorly. Remember the tiny hyper aggressive marine officer from the first few books that just vanished? Or the junior officer senior NCO pair that works well in even a halfway competent writers hands that worked for a book and a half and then just lost all semblance of a believable relationship between two military professionals of such differing rank, or what started as an antagonistic but more or less sane parliament degrading into a collection of people with no obvious motivation beyond 'be corrupt' and 'loose a war.' Everything, from tension to actually likeable people had to wilt before Mary Sueington and the universes' most insipid love interests.

[Ted C]

Can anybody recommend me some good Military Sci-Fi in any format?

Heinlein's Starship Troopers (which is nothing like the movie, if you couldn't guess)
Elizabeth Moon's Vatta's War series

[Coyote]

Hammer's Slammers series is always a favorite.

[Ahriman238]

I dunno, Connor, I might still recommend Miles Vorkosigan. True, Miles has insane luck, but none of it would mean a thing without insane daring to back it up. Like hijacking a mercenary ship, claiming to be mercenaries and recruiting all the mercenaries just defeated. His parents have a lot less in luck and sheer, dare-the-universe-to-hurt-me audacity, and their books like Cordelia's Ransom and Barrayar are still quite good.

Ender's Game? Parts of it get a bit weird, but the training at Battle School is good, having a decisive weapon they use it early and often, and there'll be a movie in a year.

Best David Weber, before he became fixated on detail, was Mutineer's Moon and sequel, the Armageddon Inheritance. Both are available free online. Might also recommend the Apocalypse Troll.

Large parts are stupid but if you want cool military hardware with GIGATONS!!! of firepower and brave men firing them into the horde, try the Posleen War series by John Ringo: A Hymn Before Battle, Gust Front, Eye of the Storm and Hell's Faire. Just expect the literary equivalent of a Saturday morning cartoon, lots of cool flashy ideas that fall apart if you think too hard about them.

The best pieces of MilSciFi ever written, of course, are Superiority by Clarke and Allamagoosa, by which author I forget. Short stories both.

[Stark]

Right after recommending the Posleen novels is probably not the best time to try to draw such a long bow, buddy.

Is the fact that all the books (even though he asked for any media) in this thread are familiar to me? Are people really just recommending the same stuff over and over?