Avengers (Spoilers)

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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

And according to the news, Avengers had the #2 grossing opening friday/first day/weekend opening of all time, with a bit over $80 mil. There's going to be sequels.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Sriad »

mr friendly guy wrote:
Mr Bean wrote: Chris Evans does a great job as Cap, wished we had more time to see him in the modern world but the setup with him was great when we pull back from the punching bag he just smashed to five more all lined up.
From what I read at least 30 minutes was edited out, including scenes where Cap reunites with his WWII old flame. I expect these deleted scenes will be in the blu ray release.
Whedon has confirmed that'll be the case.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Ire »

Shit is gonna get so real in the next movie
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar »

There were so many great scenes in that movie, I can't touch on them all.

However, I do want to ask WTF were the dragon-things?
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Just got back from seeing it, and I thought it was fantastic all around. I particularly liked the interaction between Stark and Banner. I kind of think Banner would do well to take Stark's offer to come work for him, since he could do real research again and Stark has the means to keep SHIELD/the government/everyone off his case. This movie was Grade A and one of the best comic "superhero" movies out there.

There were two things I didn't like:
One is that I HATE the cliche that if you blow up the mothership, all enemy forces immediately drop dead. I know, I know they need to wrap up the movie, but it always gets in my craw when that happens. It makes the enemies seem stupid.

I'm also not sure I saw the Chitauri as a credible enemy threat. This is a problem that actually plagues the Avengers, because any threat that can touch Thor or the Hulk should effortlessly waste someone like Hawkeye or Black Widow, yet they were completely able to dice with hordes of the alien invaders. However, any threat that Black Widow or Hawkeye or even Captain America for that matter can manage is something the US Military can also manage just as well. I mean the Chitauri's soldiers weren't anything special, their chariots were kind of dumb, and their giant flying hellbeast things weren't very fast and probably could be taken down by the application of sufficient firepower by fighter jets. Moreover, there weren't that many Chitauri in the invasion. It kind of seemed like we'd have won that fight anyway without the Avengers, let along with Hulk and Thor by themselves there. These are dudes that couldn't even hurt Black Widow... how the hell were they going to ever beat Thor, Hulk, or the US Army for that matter?
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by mr friendly guy »

Gil Hamilton wrote: I'm also not sure I saw the Chitauri as a credible enemy threat. This is a problem that actually plagues the Avengers, because any threat that can touch Thor or the Hulk should effortlessly waste someone like Hawkeye or Black Widow, yet they were completely able to dice with hordes of the alien invaders. However, any threat that Black Widow or Hawkeye or even Captain America for that matter can manage is something the US Military can also manage just as well. I mean the Chitauri's soldiers weren't anything special, their chariots were kind of dumb, and their giant flying hellbeast things weren't very fast and probably could be taken down by the application of sufficient firepower by fighter jets. Moreover, there weren't that many Chitauri in the invasion. It kind of seemed like we'd have won that fight anyway without the Avengers, let along with Hulk and Thor by themselves there. These are dudes that couldn't even hurt Black Widow... how the hell were they going to ever beat Thor, Hulk, or the US Army for that matter?
Thats always been a weakness of Avengers storytelling. You can have Cap as the tactician, but then what do you do with the other weak guys. At least the JLA had mostly powerful guys, with the exception of Batman, but then he is Batman and he will find a way. The Avengers besides Cap, doesn't seem to have that.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Yeah, I know. It really came out in this movie, where the movie seemed to struggle to justify Black Widow's and Hawkeye's existence in the final battle. It's a good thing none of those flying worm hellbeasts or more than one of dudes in chariots at a time actually went after Hawkeye, or he'd have been screwed.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by PREDATOR490 »

Seen it and liked it for the most part.
Black Widow and Hawkeye were ultimately useless. I especially hated the latter for the bullshit plot guided arrows hitting everything and anything while noone seems to notice.

Stark - Naturally the comic relief and main focus character... who constantly ends up being the one getting his ass kicked. Much as I like Iron Man, they really push it to the max with the stupid techno garbage he likes to play with. Magic screeens and holograms flying everywhere while miniture arms magically remove his armor in stunningly intricate CGI brilliance.

Hulk easily ended up dominating in his usual simple manner but a few of the people I overheard were confused how the movie shifts from Hulk being the super-bad threat which they keep pulling ineffective handguns on... to coming right in the end and suddenly being controlled.

Loki - That helmet is fucking stupid, all I could really think whenever he shifted back to that costume.

Floating fortress - Not impressed and ultimately reduced to being a CGI death trap. Magical reflective underside... to hide a massive flying aircraft carrier.... REALLY ?
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar »

Don't blame Loki for the helmet, it was all Stan Lee and Jack Kirby on that one. I never understood the ibex-horns on it myself, other than recognizable Loki=devil. I'm just glad they got rid of Thor's horned helm for the movies.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Jim Raynor »

Just came back from the theater. This was awesome.

I thought that the movie started slightly slow after the opening, when they were trying to get all of the numerous pieces together. I'm not sure if Loki's secret plan on the helicarrier was the most sensible either, although it didn't bother me because the movie gave so much more to chew on during the whole thing. And while it was intentional, I thought that the way the various heroes bickered was a bit much. Like the scene where they all found out that Fury was secretly using the Tesseract to create an arsenal of superweapons, all while Banner looked like he was about to Hulk out. Amidst all that, Cap and Tony Stark just bickered with each other in a petty way that was even called out by the others. I was thinking, "Come on guys, really?"

Then shit got real. I did NOT see Coulson's death coming. And while I usually dislike killing likable minor characters to "shock" people, I thought that the movie handled it well and gave him a nobl and meaningful death. And that big final battle in New York was just amazing. I'm a sucker for both superheroes and large scale scifi battles.

I really enjoyed how each character played their part, or got scenes that showed who they were. Another thing that I didn't expect was the exploration of Black Widow, a minor character in Iron Man 2 who no one expected to have the feature role in this movie, Scarlett Johansson or not. In just a few scenes, they were able to imply a lot about her past. Her relationship with Hawkeye was well done, in an understated way.

The dialogue was really sharp in this movie, and I was REALLY surprised by the script's humor. Also, I did NOT expect the Hulk to be featured so heavily, or for him to steal the show the way that he did. While I really liked the 2008 Edward Norton movie and thought that it was underrated, it was the least financially successful film in this series and I didn't know that the studio or the writers would be as behind the character as they were. Hulk was hilarious, filling the movie with random moments of brutish violence.

Overall, this was another excellent chapter in a terrific series of movies. I give it a 9/10.

One more thing. I'm disappointed to hear that I missed the SECOND post-credits scene, after the big Thanos reveal. From what I've heard it's nothing earth shattering, but I'm a completist. Oh well, it's something for when I see the movie a second time, something that I would've wanted to do anyway. :)
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar »

Am I the only one that got the Bickering was all caused by the Spear that was in the same room? I mean, during the bickering the camera even focuses on it, and then rotates so you see the rest of the room upside down. Is there any other way to say "HEY! GUESS WHAT I'M DOING TO THEM!!"??

I think Widow and Fury go for their weapons then because Banner had picked up the Spear. He obviously had no idea he'd grabbed it up -- I wonder if the Big Guy had him grab it just so it would stop the bickering.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Jim Raynor »

Good point. I got what they were doing when they very obviously showed that Banner had picked the thing up, but I didn't notice the camera cues you mentioned, or connect it to the way that the others were behaving.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar »

*Gibb-slaps Jim Raynor*
Ok, now that you realize the point of that camera change, does that change your outlook on the scene, or have it make more sense now? ;)
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Jim Raynor »

Yeah, the whole nature of that scene is actually pretty cool from that intended perspective. Definitely something I'll enjoy a lot more on a second viewing!
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by LadyTevar »

BTW: Did anyone else notice Hugen & Muinen flying by when Thor lands on the cliff with Loki? :twisted:
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by White Haven »

One question that keeps sticking in my mind...where is Rhodie/War Machine in all of this? You can't tell me that the US Air Force's actual superhero, who can personally break the speed of sound in free flight, wouldn't get involved in an alien invasion of New York.

At least not without a ten-second throwaway scene to explain that he just happens to be in Venezuela or some shit.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

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I don't think War Machine would have really added to this film in any significant fashion. You could just as easily ask where's the US military in all this, or why didn't we see S.H.I.E.L.D forces contribute to repelling the attack (especially since the Helicarrier was close enough to launch that fighter with the nuke onboard), which would have been more relevant to the story as this is exactly what S.H.I.E.L.D is set up for. At least they didn't go the crazy Ultimates route where S.H.I.E.L.D has like a dozen of those Helicarriers about and they all get taken out in five seconds due to bad guy Act of Plot. :D

As for the comment made above about Black Widow and Hawkeye being outclassed, the only point I agree with is that Hawkeye was a bit too ridiculous when it came to his super leet archery skillz. Otherwise, well, you'd just have these guys sitting on the bench twiddling their thumbs instead and that wouldn't have made for a better film.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by AniThyng »

Stofsk wrote:I don't think War Machine would have really added to this film in any significant fashion. You could just as easily ask where's the US military in all this, or why didn't we see S.H.I.E.L.D forces contribute to repelling the attack (especially since the Helicarrier was close enough to launch that fighter with the nuke onboard), which would have been more relevant to the story as this is exactly what S.H.I.E.L.D is set up for. At least they didn't go the crazy Ultimates route where S.H.I.E.L.D has like a dozen of those Helicarriers about and they all get taken out in five seconds due to bad guy Act of Plot. :D

As for the comment made above about Black Widow and Hawkeye being outclassed, the only point I agree with is that Hawkeye was a bit too ridiculous when it came to his super leet archery skillz. Otherwise, well, you'd just have these guys sitting on the bench twiddling their thumbs instead and that wouldn't have made for a better film.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Guardsman Bass »

That movie was hilarious. I think the two biggest audience laughs in the showing where I saw it were at the Hulk slamming Loki around like a rag doll (someone really needs to make a GIF of that), and the part where the guy not-so-secretly playing a computer game at his work terminal goes right back to it (after being called out by Tony Stark, no less!).
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by madd0ct0r »

the best part of hulk is watching him smash. everyone knows that feeling, and its great to see it get out.

hawkeye-useless. that was what, 20 arrows in his quiver? even at a chariot of three goons a time he barely reaches iron man's 2 minutes strafing or hulk's 10 mins funtime.

Romanov i actually really liked - the idea that she can move n this world of super powered people because they're too stupid not to tell her what's going on. Strength is no defense against your own stupidity.

wfe now wants to watch cap america. i'm classing it under the 'costume drama' allocation.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Stofsk »

Captain America isn't really all that good. I watched it yesterday before watching Avengers (Thor as well). Too much CGI silliness (and the CGI wasn't all that good either), not as many talented actors, and a lot of the drama fell flat to me with cliched writing. Thor was a lot better despite having some of the same problems.

I'd just watch Avengers again instead if I were you.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Dr Roberts »

I'd also like to add that we know Odin has the infinity Gauntlet as we see it with the Eternal Flame and what is rumoured to be the Orb of Amagotto. Maybe that's why Thanos wants to invade Earth, so he can get to Asgard.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by Kojiro »

KrauserKrauser wrote: I don't remember seeing the Infinity Gauntlet in Thor, though I did only watch it twice and never looked for it.
11:07 if anyone cares to look. The Frost Giants went for the wrong item. :P
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Incidentally, has anyone worked out how Loki got his staff back? I assume it was left in the lab when things went to hell. Loki doesn't have it when he exits the cell (or rather when he tricks Thor into thinking he is). When you see him immediately after that trick (Will you ever not fall for that?- awesome) he again doesn't have it. He doesn't seem to have it when he threatens to drop Thor, but after teleporting behind Coulson he clearly does have it.
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by madd0ct0r »

i thought he stabbed coulson with a dagger?
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Re: Avengers (Spoilers)

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

In case the identity of the final character is still in doubt, 'Thanos' is in the credits while 'Red Skull' is not.

And yes, he did stab Coulson with a dagger, not the scepter.
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