Yeah, and they say they have elemental transmutation but obviously don't. :v I just don't care about the dumb fluff (except the manual because its hilariuosly stupid), and he's cherry picking game numbers when it suits him and fluff shit like the stupid intro when it suits him.

Oh wait, TA fans are dumb, who knew??

Oh wow you sound like your jimmies have been rustled (If you don't know what I'm talking about its an internet meme). You accuse me of cherry picking but you disregard everything including canon fluff calling it stupid in favor of the limitations in a late 90s game engine .

Anyway,Yes, they obviously have elemental transmutation if you can change dirt into living thinking people in seconds and create nuclear weapons, or whatever there is only one explaination for that.

What calcs do you want to use? We could use the Galactic War Reports that say 200 units are capable of unleashing gigatons of firepower, in game calcs that suggest megaton level firepower, or trees.

All right. The trees in TA, standard, visually look about 100 or so meters high, IIRC. The Krogoth is also similarly high. Given the speeds of lasers, and assuming lightspeed, the trees hence would be ~0.2 or so lightseconds high. That means actually a 60,000 km high tree, which is also about 3,000 km in radius. As most wood is buoyant in water, I'll use water densities for the tree, giving it a mass of about 1 ton per cubic meter. Hence, the tree will mass 5089380098815465046309482280.9128 tons. Which means 5.089*10^30 or so kilograms of matter. A total conversion of 1 kg is roughly 22.8 MT rounding for convenience, so that means an equivalent of 10^37 tons of TNT, or about 4*10^46 J per tree converted into energy. The D-Gun takes 2000 energy, and a tree gives 250, so 8 times that, which means that the D-Gun fires a weapon with a yield of 1.6E47 J. Obviously this is retarded but we can use this if we are going to be extra-literal with gameplay mechanics. Also if we are disregarding fluff 40k doesn't really have anything.

Also what kind of resistance can they expect on a planet that the Necrons have awoken on? You keep saying they "get blown the fuck up" but you don't even bother saying how. As for their grand plan I guess they do what they always do mine the planet out, build up an army, crush the resistance, take any tech possible, teleport out to a new world, rinse and repeat. In the Galactic War Reports, IIRC, there is some mentioning of their space capabilites like 30,000km long Dreadnoughts or ships large enough to evacuate billions of people off planets, though it doesn't state what kind of firepower they have, but with the galaxy depleated of materials they don't seem to build those anymore.

You sound like an idiot; if you don't know what I'm talking about it's because you're retarded.

And sorry dude, if you want '40k vs some brief cutscene and crap spewed out by the devs about a game they couldn't make', go ahead. When people say 'Total Annihilation' they don't expect laughable nonsense like multi-megaton Big Berthas or whatever. You even try to use the intro to make the build speed better, and ignore that it makes the weapons worse! You accept parts of the fluff (lol total conversion of everything ever into tankz) and ignore that there are still resources just LYING AROUND!

Every stupid calculation you make from game mechanics works both ways. Lets work out how much a unit of energy is from a wind-farm, hey? I bet it isn't 500 KILOTONS. :V I love how your simpleminded nonsense just ignores efficiency, when their tech is so limited rates of manufacturing usable metal is very slow for dedicated factories. Clearly, 100% nano conversion to fractals or whatever the retarded fluff says. That's why the splash damage on their guns is zero meters!

Every time someone says '3d printing' I want to punch them in the face, but in TA's case it might actually not be too inappropriate; wreckage suggests the units are largely solid boxes. But then, there's little evidence the bullets are plasma ball shaped-charge things like the manual says so... lol? ETA to the classic TA-tard arguments like 'lacking scale cues the trees are 100000m tall on a 50g planet'.

Gamer may I ask you a simple question, is there a set canon hierarchy in TA in case 2 sources are in conflict or are you just picking things to suit your argument.

You see the reason I said that Starcraft or Warcrafts don't have enough data to base a good argument on isn't that there isn't sources but since Blizzard hasn't made a set canon hierarchy we can't say which source is the correct one if there's conflict between sources, it's like we're trying to something specifc from a library but all that books are all in a big pile in the middle rather then stacked neatly in the shelves.

You see we're perfectly willing to accept that certain verse beats another but what we need is useble data, not "sure there's plently of possible ways to interrpit this so I chose the one that is the best for me" data. That is why people like Stark are so mad at you, it's not because of your claim but rather how you go about defending said claim.

Personally I don't like versus threads involving games as more often then not there's not enough useble data for us to use, they tend to devolve into "I win! No I win!" shouting matches.

Scarabs eat the commander, convert it into Energy and More Scarabs. There are entire planets that the Necrons have turned into balls of scarabs in this way.

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Commander of the MFS Darwinian Selection Method (sexual)

Hey, everyone knows the wind on TA worlds is always supersonic and those windmills are kilometers across! Also the solar farms product billions of megatons of energy because the planets are 50km from the stars they orbit; just please ignore the cutscene showing a normal sunny day and no mushroom clouds from stuff exploding.

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"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

Gamer, millions of the regular soldier forms are likely to be present.

H&A has the sisters commenting that they saw enough dormat units to be a serious threat to the Imperium, given the dolman gate.

Oy, throwing insults now are we.

Anyway I thought it was well accepted fluff and manuals are higher than gameplay mechanics. I wonder how powerful is 40k without any of its fluff?

As for total conversion abilities and elemental transmutation tell me how do you explain turning dirt into living beings? Also there has to be resources still laying around if there were absolutely no resources left their wouldn't be a war would there? The resources that are lying around are just resources they haven't gotten to mining yet. The game states they have basically exhausted the resources of an entire galaxy in 4000 years. As for my total conversion calcs I assumed an efficiency of 1%.

If you want to use pure gameplay mechanics their units are still quite powerful take burning trees for example. A tree is about 100-200m tall in TA now imagine the energy to instantly incinerate that tree and now imagine that energy focused into a tiny microscopic point. But since you want to use gameplay mechanics my megaton calcs also still stand so I guess we have neutronium trees. Besides that TA has those construction units as well and they would also be a major pain with their ability to mind control units, and strip down units into useable building material instantly. But even besides that we have their horrifically fast build speeds, but then again the unit cap I think is capped at 10,000 so oh well.

As for the splash damage from most of their guns being low the game does describe their weapons as extremely focused, microscopic level focused, but besides that have you considered that maybe splash damage can't hurt most units due to their armor? Think of it this way if I fired a 120mm HEAT shell at a tank but missed it by 1 metre do you honestly think I could do any damage to that tank? Now let's assume I make a tank combat game where every unit is a tank would it make sense to give tank shells splash damage?

Yes actually, the fragments from the shell could and would damage the tracks, gun barrel, sensors and other external parts of the tank. In point of fact the tank combat game World of Tanks does give high explosive shells splash damage.

EDIT: Here's an article I remember reading about artillery and tanks in WW2 here.

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Shouldn't the tree explode if it's exposed to that much energy ?

Isn't World of Tanks about World War II tanks? I doubt a modern tank is going to be hurt if you do not make a direct hit on its armor. The M1A2 Abrams has reportedly survived direct hits from friendly 120mm rounds if I fire that same round near the tank it is probably not going to do much damage if any.

And in TA's case the armor is all compressed into one massive super dense molecule with generators holding it up in order to destroy this armor you need to overwhelm the generators (this is why units function perfectly well with only a single hp point left but explode once that single hp point is gone), pieces of shrapnel probably do not have the energy to destroy molecules.

Now lets imagine you are going to simulate this in a late 90s game engine.

Also you mentioned high explosive shells not armor-piercing rounds and in TA their weapons are described as being extremely focused, microscopic level focused.

Shhh. The shot used energy that comes from the wind. Clearly several kilotons.

Can a wind farm run a laser turret steady state? I mean they're not very efficient designs but that's more due to limitations of their manufacturing than anything else. I don't remember if the smaller defeces draw energy, though.

If TA people tried to think about what the obvious limitations are with the 'nano' wank instead of just saying OMG BBQ MAKE WHATEVER WHENEVER INFINITELY when the fluff and game make it clear this isn't how it works, we might have a thread.

Then again, if he actually talked about fighting necrons it might help too.

Ps everyone can look at TA and see what '100m trees' being 'instantly' 'incinerated' looks like. If they've ever seen a campfire they'll know the nuclear yields this demonstrates.

Aaron, do scarabs still fuck with technology?

Oh man - tank survives hit with x weapon to armour, clearly entire tank is immune to any and all weaker weapons. He's an idiot, who could have guessed?

Hey gamer how is a magnetic plasma ball going to microscopically focus it's effect after it collapses? :v

I said the tracks and other vulnerable external parts would be damaged. You can mission kill a tank by destroying the tracks or the gun barrel or taking out the sensors.

As for being super focused, if we accept your yields that wouldn't matter as releasing megatons of energy in a fraction of second would still create a nuclear fireball and mushroom cloud since all that energy has to go somewhere thanks to thermodynamics.

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I never said nuclear yields for setting trees on fire but the energy required to instantly set a 100m+ tall tree on fire is at least somewhat impressive and then focusing that energy into a microscopic point is going to be devastating. It's not going to create nuclear explosions but it should penetrate armor quite well.

Obviously their "wind farms" and "solar collectors" aren't normal wind farms or solar collectors in real-life you couldn't power any of their tech with a windmill unless its efficiency is far beyond 100%. Turning dirt into humans and warmachines in seconds just wouldn't be possible.

Also it would be helpful if anyone actually talked about fighting Necrons all I keep hearing is "get blown the fuck up" with no reference to Necron abilities, weapons or anything.

And in TA's case the armor is all compressed into one massive super dense molecule with generators holding it up in order to destroy this armor you need to overwhelm the generators (this is why units function perfectly well with only a single hp point left but explode once that single hp point is gone), pieces of shrapnel probably do not have the energy to destroy molecules.

With fluff we got gigaton yields and 30,000km starships sooo.......

But since you don't want to use fluff how are Necrons like without any fluff?

Glass Fort McLeod would be the one to ask as I lack the Codex but the Nightmare Shroud and the Pariah dudes will certainly fuck up guys minds.

Man, in 40k fluff is everything but game mechanics, which are for a tabletop game. It makes no sense to discard it, it's all canon anyways because GW doesn't have a canon hierarchy.

Keep in mind this is a game made in the late 90s I don't think they had the capability to make every unit super realistic with the ability to take out their sensors or gun barrels like in real-life. Also these are fictional tanks everyone of them is described as a single giant super dense molecule they may not have much in the way of weak points in their armor you've either destroyed the molecule or you didn't.

Also again that's probably mostly gameplay mechanics in fluff it describes them releasing gigatons of energy but in game we see normal looking explosions.

So we should disregard TA fluff why?

Because we can actually see what your talking about from the game visuals?

I don't really give a shit though, I've never even heard of TAKING.

But even if we disregard fluff and just use gameplay you still get megaton level yields using conversion calcs and unit damage.

So let's change gears since obviously no one wants to use TA fluff.

Let's go on pure visuals, and the manual, if we just go purely by the visuals in a late 90s strategy game a Peewee's firepower is higher than a space marine dreadnought and has thousands of years of combat experience (IIRC everytime they build a new unit the memories of the old units are also uploaded into the new one so allegedly they should be geniuses on the battlefield), cloaked, and they can build those like Tyranids produce gaunts. So in a way they are like the machine version of Tyranids except with gaunts that can go one-on-one with dreadnoughts and tanks and win.

Wind farms not real wind farms because that would destroy your inflated bullshit numbers, but can use energy figures to make nuclear Berthas! LOL

And frankly the difference between settings that are mainly a game and those that are many media is important. Look at ME and the inaccurate cutscenes and fluff and retcons etc; that's not like SW 'cutscenes canon'.

If only those thousands of years of combat experience would allow them to do anything more advanced than walking in a straight line towards the enemy and firing their guns, that might be relevant. And Peewees can't cloak, what the fuck are you talking about? Only the Commander, the 'spy' kbots, and some high-end infrastructure can cloak (this doesn't include any of the factories, incidentally), it's not a universal thing at all; and anyway the cloak only shields them from being seen, they are still picked up on radar. And going from the game, I'm pretty sure it would take several minutes for a single peewee to destroy one of the 'car' wreckages that are strewn around the urban maps.

But seriously there were Total Annihilation books? Thank god I didn't here about those when I was playing this game (lol I struggled against the retarded AI), I might even have bought them. Oh and gamer, please stop this fuckery, you are ruining part of my childhood with your stupidity.

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And also one of the ingredients to making a pony is cocaine. -Darth Fanboy.

My Little Warhammer: Friendship is Heresy - Latest Chapter: 7 - Rainbow Crash

A real-life wind farm couldn't do anything in TA just simple unit production would be impossible since normal wind can't produce the energy to turn rocks into living thinking human beings and definitely not any of their weapons. So its obvious the wind farm is something else, and don't bother trying to say its not realistic look at 40k the realism there is non-existent you got super soldiers with two hearts, Orcs in space that can paint cars red to make them go faster, zombies, psychic powers, etc.

As for the game not looking like the fluff, the game is a late 90s strategy that looks like this:
http://cataclysm.tauniverse.com/CORE.gif

What do you expect?

Its canon that all units in Total Annihilation are cloaked that's why there is a fog of war. The other units are just cloaked above and beyond the rest. As for everything else, game mechanics and engine limitations.

Do you not see how circular you are? They can't be wind farms because that means my massively inflated numbers and broken, stupid idea of how things work would be wrong!

You're basically simply discarding everything you don't like or that doesn't support your absurd numbers just so you can say 'TA NOVEL POWER LEVELS LOL'... But using game numbers to make absurd statements about power levels. It's useless.

Harp on about THE NINETIES all you want, huge explosions don't cost anything on a computer, especially when they're fucking bitmaps. TA is a typical RTS and does nothing to show high power levels. Deal with it.

You do realise that's a screenshot from a mod, right?

Maybe they have a trick to let them do their nanolathing for very little energy. That would actually make sense in the context of using up all the galaxy's resources, they would want to be effecient with what they have left. The same goes for having low yields on their weapons btw - maybe both of them are in the late stage of a spiral of decay, able only to produce low-quality junk because the resources they are working with are so meagre.

Oh gods what, they wrote up some shit to explain the fog of war? Why the fuck would they do that? Anyway, walking into visual range (a longer range than most weapons, except the cannons) gets rid of this 'cloak' (which still doesn't protect them from radar), so it really isn't that useful.

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And also one of the ingredients to making a pony is cocaine. -Darth Fanboy.

My Little Warhammer: Friendship is Heresy - Latest Chapter: 7 - Rainbow Crash