Mass effect and the changes in weaponry

[HMS Sophia]

In the first mass effect game, set in the year 2183, weapons technology has taken huge leaps and bounds in the 171 years since the modern day.
All weapons utilise electromagnetic technology, accelerating this slivers of metal to high speeds to act as projectiles. The ammunition comes from a solid metal block inside the weapon, and the only limiting factor is heat. This essentially creates a single pro and con:

Pro: You will have to reload your weapon maybe once every few thousand shots. No carrying several pounds of ammo, just one neat foldable weapon that can be slung on your back.

Con: These weapons produce a very large amount of heat per shot, and without careful management (and even with for some sniper rifles) overheating is a serious issue. Even so, these weapons appear to have very capable heat sinks and removal systems, as they can dump all heat in a matter of 4-6 seconds (estimated).

These weapons (of which there are many different types, from pistols to anti-armour cannons) reduce logistical problems at all scales, and do not seem to require any greater maintenance than a modern rifle, or they probably don't as they are in regular service with marine garrison and front-line units.


So, we have a very capable series of weapons which seem to have many many advantages over a normal weapon. Now, we skip ahead two years to 2185, and everything has changed.

Weapons now use what are known as 'thermal clips'. These store the heat produced by firing, and then are dumped once they overheat, another clip taking there place. However, only a limited amount can be stored in each weapon, giving a maximum amount of 'shots' that can be carried. This does appear to give massively increased logistical problems (now instead of just handing out weapons, you have to hand out weapons and thermal clips). It also re-introduces reloading to the equation, something that seems to make little sense when two years before this was basically unneeded except in the hands of quartermasters.

Now my questions are these:
1) Does it really make sense to make the change from the original weapon type to the newer thermal clip based weaponry? Even for some small increase in fire-power they supposedly provide. Especially for military's such as the systems alliance?

I did have a second question but it doesn't make sense now. Maybe I'll have more later.
Basically it comes down too... this seems dumb. Help my head?

[Havok]

Welcome to last year.

No, it makes no sense and is just a poor response to FattyNerdsTM whining about the gun mechanics.

Instead of just nerfing the existing mechanics some in the second game so that you literally could not fire uninterrupted for INFINITY, they took an interesting new shooting system/mechanic and made it just like every other one out there by adding "thermal clips", which for everyone except the terminally fucking stupid, are just ammo clips.

[HMS Sophia]

Yeah I've had the game since it came out, I just didn't think to ask.
I thought as much, and am slightly saddened by it... I think if I ever run a mass effect game i'll go back to the old ones...

[Serafina]

Thermal clips DO make a lot of sense if they are OPTIONAL.
Take your basic ME1 weapon. Fire it until it overheats - and then the thermal clip kicks in, allowing you to fire a bit more. Perfect for situations where high volumes of fire are needed and you can't afford to wait for your weapon to cool down - and you still retain the luxury of practically never running out of ammo.

[Stark]

It would have been interesting if they retconned it properly, and had both types exist with different attributes. Instead you get areas nobody has been to for ages having the 'new' thermal clip system guns and nobody anywhere using the cooldown ones, even though for some weapons the clips aren't very helpful.

Oh well, Bioware not very good at mechanics or consistent in setting, 2010 where did you go.

[Stofsk]

Not to mention that there are thermal clips on the Collector Ship/Base/Horizon, when the Collectors use particle beam weaponry not kinetic impactors. (at least I am pretty sure they do - it doesn't matter, they shouldn't have thermal clips and even if they do, why would it be compatible with Alliance/Council technology?)

Biofail pure and simple.

[lordofchange13]

Not to mention that there are thermal clips on the Collector Ship/Base/Horizon, when the Collectors use particle beam weaponry not kinetic impactors. (at least I am pretty sure they do - it doesn't matter, they shouldn't have thermal clips and even if they do, why would it be compatible with Alliance/Council technology?)

Biofail pure and simple.

The collectors did use kinetic based assault rifles. My take on the whole thing that this is a subtle use of the Reapers indoctrination powers. The evil space squids have made there only viable threat to completely change their handheld weapon systems just for giggles before the invasion.

When the heat sinks are ejected out of the gun are they for ever useless now or can you come back in an hour when their cooled off and use them again? Just wondering sense there are freedom fighter on earth after the Reaper attack in the up coming game, and they would be in for a time of trial when there guns don't work no more from having no thermal clips; this would be especially annoying to me in just knowing that the only reason i can't use my sniper rifle no more is not because im out of batteries or chunks of metal but because of having no coolant.

[PREDATOR490]

The logical thing to have done and was suggested numerous times was to introduce a mixed system.

Give weapons a heatsink that overheats and when it reaches max you pop it, put it in your cooled backpack, pull out another and pop it in.
After X time the cooled version will be ready and you switch them out again.

Tada, unlimited ammo with a heatsink throttling capability added. Give different classes amounts of heatsinks based on what you expect their consumption to be and thats it.

[Stark]

I think it would have been more interesting to have two separate types of weapon; all the fatties who complained about cooldowns in ME1 could use ammo, and everyone else could just choose what was most appropriate for their play style. They'd probably have had to nerf the cooldown guns, because there was no real problem with them beyond the system being broken by mods lategame for infinity firing, but at least it would have been less magic wand than transmuting every gun in the entire setting into something else. Who wouldn't want their HE shotgun to be ammo-fed instead of cooling? Who really needs ammo for sniper rifles when cooldown is so fast relative to ROF?

[Ford Prefect]

The original plan was to actually have thermal clips and normal cooling simultaneously. It's even in the files for the game, it's something you can turn on really trivially.

[Stark]

You mean rotating your mags?

[lordofchange13]

The original plan was to actually have thermal clips and normal cooling simultaneously. It's even in the files for the game, it's something you can turn on really trivially.

Who would one go about doing this?

[lordofchange13]

How would one go about doing this?

[Stofsk]

There's a thread on BSN (bioware social network) forums that goes into modding the config files for ME2. Just search there.

[lordofchange13]

There's a thread on BSN (bioware social network) forums that goes into modding the config files for ME2. Just search there.

Thank you

[Ford Prefect]

You mean rotating your mags?

The idea was that there would be an overheat bar, but you could pop in a new thermal clip at any time.

[lordofchange13]

You mean rotating your mags?

The idea was that there would be an overheat bar, but you could pop in a new thermal clip at any time.

That system would have been much better then the one that got put in. I would assume that you only had so many thermal clips before you were forced to allow cool down?

[bilateralrope]

There's a thread on BSN (bioware social network) forums that goes into modding the config files for ME2. Just search there.

Could you give a link to the thread please ?

I can't find it through browsing and I get "You cannot access this restricted area." whenever I try to use search.

[KlavoHunter]

The only thing I've heard is that they changed it away from that model for "Game balance" reasons, I guess they wanted to force players to switch between weapons more, instead of constantly rocking their favorite sniper rifle at extreme range or whatever.

I too would like to hear about how to turn this mode on.

[Stofsk]

There's a thread on BSN (bioware social network) forums that goes into modding the config files for ME2. Just search there.

Could you give a link to the thread please ?

I can't find it through browsing and I get "You cannot access this restricted area." whenever I try to use search.

I think this will help you, but I didn't take a good long look at it: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic ... ex/5055832

[Ted C]

I'm not sure what the complaint was about the original game mechanic. You'd think that, given the kinetic energy of the projectiles and the amount of waste heat generated, the weapon's power supply would be its main problem.

In any case, the "thermal clip" system just reintroduce the need to reload. Maybe a lot of playertesters just felt weird without it. Originally, the intent was to have the old system, with the thermal clip ejection as a new option to up your fire rate, but the programmers apparently had issues getting them to work together (although I hear you can hack the PC version to get it back, which reportedly breaks the game balance).

At least the thermal clips have the practical value of a single, universal reload device for all weapons. Pistols, assault rifles, submachineguns, shotguns, and sniper rifles all use the same ammunition, which is handy from a logistics standpoint.

[Stark]

People just hated waiting. The 'penalty time' you got for 'overheating' was central to that; its not that you had to wait some fraction of a second per shot, or that you had a maximum constant firing time - its that if you didn't pay attention, you would be penalised.

People who play fighting games can handle this. People who play racing games can handle this. People who play sport games can handle this.

People who play RPGs can't; they whine and whine and whine until its changed, and Bioware changes it in a way that kinda makes a mockery of their 'worldbuilding'.

I confess the reason I want both systems in parallel is because I prefer the old system and would never use a THERMAL CLIPPO.

[Havok]

At least the thermal clips have the practical value of a single, universal reload device for all weapons. Pistols, assault rifles, submachineguns, shotguns, and sniper rifles all use the same ammunition, which is handy from a logistics standpoint.

You mean more practical than not having to have thermal clips at all?

[Stark]

Ingame the different weapons get more or less fire out of the clips, so it'd actually be helpful to NOT have a standard size. Any gun becomes an MG if you just double or triple the mag size, and they're really small as it is.

[Ted C]

At least the thermal clips have the practical value of a single, universal reload device for all weapons. Pistols, assault rifles, submachineguns, shotguns, and sniper rifles all use the same ammunition, which is handy from a logistics standpoint.

You mean more practical than not having to have thermal clips at all?

No, I mean more practical than having 2-5 different types of weapon and entirely different ammunition for each type. I never said it was better than the ME1 "no reload" mechanic.