Imperial Guard superior to SW armies?

[Shroom Man 777]

Nute Gunray: "Hey, that guy who keeps hanging around our pal Count Dooku kinda looks familiar. I swear that face is so familiar, where have I seen that before..."

Nute Gunray: "Aha! Your father's DNA was used to create the army of our enemy!"

Boba: "Uhh... My dad liked hookers."

[PainRack]

From what I gather its just his impression (or interpretation, take your pick) from the movies, sources, or whatever that the clones are doing or capable of what he says they are.

I'm sorry..... Just how is it my "impression" or interpretation again?

Its canon fact that the GAR deployed to Geonosis within hours as Master Yoda transited from Coruscant to Kamino and then to Geonosis, arriving on the same day that Mace Windu did.

In ITW, we are told that the Clones disabled the geonosian space and aerial defences, sufficiently to land a ground army to rescue the Jedi/Senator and then attack the Core ship landing zones.

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the Clones had prior planning/intelligence to support their mission preparation.

There is no evidence that the Clones are loaded on the transports and ready to go.

But on the other hand, Geonsosis also display the sheer combat readiness of the Clone Army. I went through this before, but an army that took only hours to load up its heavy equipment and mobilise manpower, get to the combat theatre, plan an invasion with miminal intelligence and preparation and then systematically smash the Seperatist air/space defences, the C3 system and force an ground invasion within hours is extremely impressive.

That was your original claim that triggered this, Painrack. I demanded proof, you haven't provided any, just more quibbling.

You know what, I'm sick of this. We have no evidence whatsoever that your assumption, that the Clone Army was loaded on the transports with all its equipment ready to go, awaiting Master Yoda arrival.

On the other hand, you ignore the fact that Karen traviss novel, Hard Contact does give us the opening deployment to Geonosis amongst its short and there was no indication whatsoever that the Clones were packed and ready to go.

Its an unreasonable assumption, I pointed to both movie scenes as well as novels which suggest your assumption doesn't happen, I can't prove a negative but you haven't supported your positive and you're claiming victory.


You wanna know the best part of all? I didn't even claim that the Clones had uber tactics on Geonosis. I'm not Karen Traviss/Ryan. The casualty rates of 50% seem perfectly reasonable to me considering the Clones used assault tactics, landing directly into an opposed landing zone and then deploying in a screen to protect the Jedi. They then assaulted directly into the LZ. I have posted in the past, albeit not on SB that the reasons for them doing so was that the GAR was overtasked, due to the sheer size of the Droid army as opposed to Republic forces and the Clone Army decided to expend its units by attacking directly into the landing zones in an attempt to pin down the Seperatist Core ships but you don't seem interested in actually debating tactics.

Of course, I note that even if your assumption that the Clone Army speed of deployment, the speed which it planned and executed its missions speed of a process speed that's what's being dreamed of right now by modern day militaries is STILL canon fact, even though you're trying to muddy the waters by saying the casualty rates/walking in straight lines and exposed somehow disprove this.

Again. How does their poor ground tactics and casualty rates actually disprove their OODA cycle speed and C3 abilities?

[Shroom Man 777]

Star Wars armies being able to deploy superfast isn't mutually exclusive with Star Was armies that deploy superfast end up performing shittily or having shit planning because they haven't time to plan properly within the mere hours of their deployment from base to battlefront.

[PainRack]

but I'm extremely skeptical of the idea you can call this SUPER DUPER COMPETENT military planning when they take massive casualties in the process and only at most achieve part of their objectives (The Separatists manage to get away as did much of the fleet and droid forces they had loaded onboard their ships. Dooku certainly got away as well.) About the only thing you really can say from it is.. it was fast. But that's not really a great shock either considering we know what hyperdrive speeds are capable of.

Speed of radio wave. Lightspeed.
Speed of F-16 falcon. Mach 1.5
Turnaround time of F-16 Falcon. Minutes.
Time in flight, hours.

Time for a target placed on the ATO to be bombed. A day or more during the Persian Gulf War.

Furthermore, again, the speed is NOT the time it took for the clones to transit from Kamino to Geonosis. It was that this time is ALL the clones had to prepare for the mission on Geonosis, and within this timeframe, they successfully planned and executed missions to disable Geonosis space and aerial defences, to the extent that they posed no viable threat to Republic forces.

Your rebuttal is on the results. And it should had been simple to explain why the results were that way. The Seperatist forces vastly outnumbered the GAR, even though thanks to a fluke of luck and surprise, the GAR outgunned the Seperatists in space and the air. This fact alone explains why the Republic had to fail.

They couldn't gather enough force to capture the political leadership. Jedi were split up, Obiwan/Anakin went after Dooku and Yoda went to support them. Grevious and Ventress defended the remainding Seperatist political leadership against a few jedi, albeit, supported by a clone force. There were no more Jedi/clones to send in, because its reasonable to believe that they were engaged elsewhere.

The Republic couldn't blockade the system, even though the AOTC novelisation stated that the space battle went well due to the Federation starships being transports. Again, explained easily by the sheer number of enemy starships vs the relatively small force that the Republic brought. The small number of Accalamators the Republic brought had to engage both enemy space defences, starships, starfighters, escaping transports, ground defences, land the assault, support the ground offensive........ Non canon, but entirely reasonable.

The Republic losses is ALSO easily explained, although I didn't post any of that on this board before. They were outnumbered, they used shock tactics and assaulted directly into the enemy guns. Why? Best explaination is that was the only tactic they had left, apart from RC squads being uber to pin down escaping Federation starships. The assault guns at least had to be brought close enough so that they could target the fleeing core ships.

Edit: I would also add that Windu's actions in the Jedi arena only compounded the problems, since it necessitated Yoda and the clones diverting assets to airlift their asses out of a situation they themselves got themselves into by fucking up... and this was also part of the "plan" agreed upon beforehand.. again not terribly brilliant (but understandable given the "peacekeepers not warriors" thing for the Jedi too.)

I know I wasn't super active on this board when AOTC came out, but I posted the Mace Windu actions, as constrained by a policeman ROE on this board in the months after AOTC came out. May I suggest you reread it?