Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

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Zinegata
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Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Zinegata »

Alright, just got my hands on a copy of Salvation's Reach, and I have to say I enjoyed it. It's much more a return to form by Abnett than Blood Pact and the dreariness of "The Lost" series - with Abnett throwing us a lot of interesting plot points. Not many of the plot points are resolved, but it does feel like the proper start of an arc compared to Blood Pact.

Anyway, some notes. Stop reading if you don't want spoilers:

1) Abnett extensively covers the concept of regimental followers - which are regular civilians who provide services to the fighting troops. It's interesting how Abnett claims that every regiment in the Imperium has a similar entourage of followers which we hardly ever see, but he also introduces the idea that the Imperium gives this entourage a choice of whether or not they want to follow their regiment into a war zone. They are even asked to sign waivers.

The Ghost's followers mostly do end up going with the regiment anyway - one of them includes Elodie (from Blood Pact) who eventually marries Daur in the book. There's apparently no rule against Guardsmen marrying while in service.

2) We finally get to see some loyalist Space Marines in action. And they gun down a ridiculous number of enemies in this book.

On the other hand, it's also shown that despite having only three Space Marines; these Marines are very heavily supported with a lot of heavy weapons. They attack an enemy space fort using a Caestus-class boaridng torpedo, which also essentially acted like a fire support gunship when they got inside the fortress. They also had a large number of combat servitors.

The performance of the Caestus' pilot must also be noted. Although the pilot was supposedly a servitor, he apparently was well-regarded as an ancient and experienced one, and it showed. The pilot almost single-handedly killed 300+ Loxcatl mercenaries on his own without needing any outside initiative. Kind of interesting as we've only seen almost mindless drones for servitors.

3) Gaunt has a son from his tryst with that Chass girl from Necropolis. About time his womanizing bit him in the ass. :p

On top of that though, we also learn that the Imperium also has ways of making kids grow up faster. Gaunt's kid is only 11 years old, but thanks to reverse-juvenat treatments he's physically closer to 17.

Oh, and the kid comes with a bodyguard (named Maddalena Darebeloved. Yes, really) who was modified to look like the kid's mother (plastic surgery in the grim dark future!).

And yes, Gaunt sleeps with her almost immediately, much to poor Curth's chagrin. Looks like she's finally giving up on Gaunt (Yay?) and has moved to getting drunk with Blenner (Gaunt's pudgy best friend).

4) And speaking of Blenner... he's still a Commissar, and an actual cowardly commissar (unlike Ciaphas, with whom you can never be sure). And Blenner is now attached to the Ghosts along with like four other Commissars. You've got Hark, Ludd, and two new ones.

That leaves the Ghosts with like six Commissars, including Gaunt. They try to justify it by saying that the extra Commissars are needed because the Ghosts are now a polygot of three different regiments (Blenner seems to be assigned specifically to the Belladon portion, Hark to the Tanith, etc), but it does seem to be a bit excessive. Then again, Ludd and the two new ones seem to be junior Commissars, and there's every indication that Hark brings Ludd along because he sees the latter as a surrogate son more than anything else.

5) There's a nice space battle sequence (Yay!), with a bunch of Imperial ships against a few Chaos ones. Interestingly, all of the Chaos ships in the book seem to be daemon-possessed ones. They were all chanting their names as they attacked, and were screeching when they got hit.

One of the Chaos ships also used some kind of funky lightning weapon to cheat and wipe out an Imperial frigate outright (Boo!).

6) Finally, the overall strategic happenings...

Apparently, the Sabbat Worlds Crusade is grinding into a stalemate. You've got the Sons of Sek on one side (Cabal Worlds), the Blood Pact on the other (Erynes Worlds), with the Imperials in the middle (everything they've conquered so far - Balhaut, the Khan Group, etc).

Macaroth's been trying to hit both Sek and Gaur, but his efforts are failing miserably. His commanders want him to focus on Sek, but Macaroth fears that this will allow Gaur to entrench and make his position impregnable.

With help from Etogaur Mabbon (the Chaos defector from Blood Pact), they hatch a plan to try and get Sek and Gaur to start fighting. The Ghosts are sent to the titular world of Salvation's Reach (which is really a planetoid built out of a debris field of broken ships), which is a major research facility by Sek. They go in with the Space Marines, kill a lot of people, lose a few guys (notably Dorden and Merrt) and steal some data/artifacts from Sek. They then start broadcasting Gaur battle cries on an open channel to try and convince Sek that the raid was conducted with the help of the Blood Pact.

The novel then ends before showing the strategic results of the raid, but Mabbon was apparently quite pleased by the raid, and the Ghost's ship was apparently being stalked by a Chaos battleship which did nothing while they conducted the raid.

Needless to say, this cloak and daggers gambit seems to be serving more nefarious ends.

But, anyway, enough details for now. Discuss! :D
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Juubi Karakuchi »

My experience of this book has been the audiobook version, which I firmly recommend. It is read by James MacPherson, who gives the Ghosts Scottish accents and the Vervunhivers Russian accents (most pronounced in Maddalena's case). Mad Larkin is particularly entertaining.

There are some interesting scenes with Rhen Merrt being mentored in sharpshooting by one of the Space Marines, who figures out that the twitch in his augmetic jaw (which robbed him of his sniper status by messing up his aim) is caused by his concentration. His answer is to inject Merrt's face with muscle relaxant, rendering him incapable of speech, but restoring his accuracy.

The appearance of Meritus Felix Chass was a mild surprise. I actually thought for a moment it was Merity herself pulling a Sweet Polly Oliver, but was quickly disabused. That she went through with the pregnancy implies her feelings for Gaunt must have been fairly strong.

I picked up a vague implication that Urlock Gaur allowed the raid on Salvation's Reach to go ahead (despite being in a position to prevent it) because he wanted Sek out of the way, or at least weakened. This makes a degree of sense in light of Macaroth's strategic approach, specifically his claim that focussing on Sek would allow Gaur to dig in. Sek has been gradually built up as a serious rival to Gaur over several books, especially with him creating the Sons of Sek, and even luring Blood Pact officers (such as Mabbon) into his service. On that basis, it would make sense for Gaur to let Sek get wailed on, both weakening a potential threat and maybe diverting the Imperium's attention while he fortifies his remaining systems.

I am also rather curious about Mabbon's motivations. He could be playing a role in an elaborate scheme by Gaur to bring down Sek, which by implication would have started with his initial defection, bringing said scheme into Xanatos territory. If so it shows another side to Gaur, who is made out to be a typically Khornate (aka mindlessly violent) warlord in most respects. Another possible reason is that he is following a similar path to Arguleon Veq, that is, becoming disillusioned with Chaos and trying to get his own back. Or it could be personal revenge against Sek for some real or imagined slight, such as failing to reward him sufficiently for his defection, or perhaps resentment over the defection itself (if it was not entirely of his own will).
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Zinegata »

Regarding Merity's affection for Gaunt... it's hard to say. There's also an underlying political aspect behind sending Felyx to meet his war hero father. As noted by the newcomers from Vervunhive, Gaunt is still seen as the People's Hero, along with the other stalwarts like Ban Daur and Gol Kolea. That being said, Gaunt does still seem to fantasize about Merity from time to time (see Iron Star), and he jumps on Maddalenna almost immediately.

On the other hand, Salvation's Reach does (finally) confirm the long-simmering tension between Curth and Gaunt since Honour Guard, which also shows how 40K treats romantic love a bit differently. In the scene where Curth confronts Gaunt for sleeping with Maddalenna, Gaunt is seemingly trying to stammer out that he does in fact love Curth, but that apparently doesn't stop him from sleeping with every pretty girl that comes along.

Oh well. Here's to Blenner X Curth :D
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Darksider »

Something i've been wondering, Exactly how many actual Tanith are left in the regiment? Their can't be many. It seems like they're mostly keeping the name for posterity's sake. How much longer before their vaunted scouting abilities start to degrade because all the Tanith men are dead? I know that no one other than the first managed to escape the chaos fleet which burned the planet, but Titanicus shows that there were men from Tanith off-world at the time of it's destruction. IMHO it'd be fucking awesome if the Gaunt's go to check out their next scheduled reinforcement, and it's composed primarily of off-world Tanith volunteers who want to avenge their homeworld. Sort of like all the Alderaanians who joined the Rebellion in SW.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Zinegata »

Darksider wrote:Something i've been wondering, Exactly how many actual Tanith are left in the regiment? Their can't be many. It seems like they're mostly keeping the name for posterity's sake. How much longer before their vaunted scouting abilities start to degrade because all the Tanith men are dead? I know that no one other than the first managed to escape the chaos fleet which burned the planet, but Titanicus shows that there were men from Tanith off-world at the time of it's destruction. IMHO it'd be fucking awesome if the Gaunt's go to check out their next scheduled reinforcement, and it's composed primarily of off-world Tanith volunteers who want to avenge their homeworld. Sort of like all the Alderaanians who joined the Rebellion in SW.
Yes, there aren't many left. The regiment had lost half of the originals by the time Necropolis ends, and they get augmented by Vervunhive recruits. A second influx of Belladon troops happens after The Saint series, but they immediately get wiped down to half strength again by the time Jago rolls along. It seems that all in all, they only have around 2 companies of original Tanith veterans left.

That being said, they've got a fair number of officers who are still from Tanith. Rawne is the regimental XO. Shoggy Domor and Meyrrn are both company commanders, alongside Baskeyvil (Belladon), Gol Kolea (Vervunhive), and Ban Daur (Vervunhive). Mkoll remains head of the scouts, although the top scouts from Tanith are basically down to Bonin and Larkins.

The regiment also gets a bunch of reinforcements in the novel, but they're all from Vervunhive, which has apparently adopted the Ghosts as their own. The reinforcements include Major Pasha, a female "scratch company" commander from Necropolis, and a Captain from the Vervunhive PDF that's an old acquaintance of Ban Daur. They also get a marching band from Belladon... although I'm loathe to call that addition as "reinforcements" :P.

-----

Also, once nice detail I forgot to mention about the Servitor pilot from the Caestus. After seeing the Servitor pilot do all of his acrobatics, killing hundreds of the enemy before losing its own life, the Space Marine in command of the force actually makes a mental note to mention the Servitor's heroic sacrifice and have it recorded in the Chapter annals.

Pretty high praise for a servitor, especially considering the same Space Marine had the balls to rudely ignore Lord-General Cybon earlier in the book!
Last edited by Zinegata on 2011-10-12 03:11am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Darksider »

Hey. Those Belladons are fully trained guardsmen.

They just happen to double as a marching band.............
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Zinegata »

Darksider wrote:Hey. Those Belladons are fully trained guardsmen.

They just happen to double as a marching band.............
Well, yes. Technically speaking however, they aren't really reinforcements from the home world. This is really just the younger Wilder pulling strings to try and hook up with his brother.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Alkaloid »

Something i've been wondering, Exactly how many actual Tanith are left in the regiment? Their can't be many. It seems like they're mostly keeping the name for posterity's sake. How much longer before their vaunted scouting abilities start to degrade because all the Tanith men are dead?
Things are getting to the stage now though where a generation of camp followers who grew up as camp followers are getting to the age where they can enlist, and the book featuring Caff/Criid/Koleas son suggested that the regiment gives these sort of kids their own training while they're growing up, and pretty much send them off to basic in order to tick a box. So they won't have the whole 'sense of direction' thing, but as scout regiment they'll do fine. Plus, you know, the literal ghosts that show up from time to time, I don't thing any of them have not been Tanith yet.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Dartzap »

They did get some fairly decent reinforcements this time, though. 6 companies of Verghast isnt to be sniffed at, after all. Must add a thousand odd to the ranks?
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Zinegata »

Hmmm, okay, upon re-checking some details in Blood Pact, I noticed a few things that could be relevant regarding Mabbon's loyalty...

First of all, we can confirm that the Chaos assassination squad is definitely Blood Pact. We get to see the story from their PoV a couple of times, and they definitely refer to themselves as Blood Pact. While bringing a witch along does not exactly jive with the typical Khornate bent of the Blood Pact, we do know that they aren't above using magic either when it suits them.

So we can confirm that Gaur is definitely trying to have Mabbon killed.

The case that Sek is trying to kill Mabbon is more muddy however. We don't actually ever see the PoV of Rime or his Sirkles. In fact, the only person to point out that Rime is an agent of Sek is Mabbon himself - and Gaunt admits that he doesn't have enough evidence to prove that this is true.

However, we do get evidence later on that proves that Rime is indeed a Chaos agent. In Salvation's Reach, we get the PoV of the last surviving Sirkle as he tries to sabotage the whole mission by contacting a Chaos battlegroup to ambush the unwary Imperials. So Rime is definitely serving Chaos.

Interestingly however, the Chaos flagship of the Chaos battlegroup decides to spare Gaunt's ship during the ambush. The Space Marines conclude that the flagship fled before it could be attacked by the Imperial battleship, but at the end of the novel we see the same flagship monitoring the entire attack on Salvation's Reach and doing nothing to stop it.

Which is a little weird when you think about it. Rime and the Sirkles were earnestly trying to kill Mabbon. One of the Sirkles contacted a Chaos battleship (presumably serving the same master), and yet the battleship spares Gaunt and Mabbon. Why?

I would guess the following:

1) Mabbon wasn't lying when he said that Rime/Sirkles were agents of Sek.

2) However, since Rime was a deep-cover agent (he was pretending to be an Inquisitor), he'd been out of contact for a long time. Therefore, he had no idea what Mabbon's (or Sek's) actual plans were. All he knew was that the Imperials got their hands on a defector, who could be feeding the Imperials all of Sek's most important secrets. Significantly, this is supported by the fact that Rime wasn't trying to kill Mabbon with suicidal abandon. He was trying to get Mabbon transferred to his custody - and everybody assumed that Rime was just going to kill Mabbon - but Rime could also have intended to question Mabbon first and find out what the hell was going on.
3) This also neatly explains why the Sirkles were so hell-bent on killing Mabbon in Salvation's Reach. Mabbon had killed off their master, and Rime wasn't present anymore to tell his minions that he wanted to find out the truth.
4) Moreover, when the last Sirkle calls in a Chaos battlegroup, the Chaos ships immediately launch their attacks without realizing that the Imperial ships were carrying Mabbon. However, as soon as the flagship realizes the mistake (and having known the plan, since it's not in deep-cover mode like Rime), it immediately leaves and lets the Ghosts get on with their mission.

So in summary, it's looking like this raid is part of a plan hatched by Sek. He made Mabbon feign surrender and defection to the Imperials, so that they would launch their raid on Salvation's Reach. Interestingly, Mabbon expected the Ghosts to leave him behind to die on Salvation's Reach... but the Sons of Sek could have also just been waiting to pick him up and return him to his master instead.

The question now is... why would Sek go through all of this elaborate planning? My guess is that he is planning to use this as a casus belli to finally go to war against Gaur. Even the dimmest member of the Sons of Sek garrisoning Salvation's Reach would have known that it was the Imperium, not the Blood Pact, that attacked them.

But if Sek claims that Gaur attacked him and stole his stuff... then nobody else in the Chaos side could deny it. All of the eyewitnesses would be members of Sek's forces. If they tried to listen in on the fight, all they would hear are the Blood Pact cries that Mabbon had told Gaunt to play. In short, while Gaur could rage and claim his innocence all he wants, Sek could now claim that Gaur had attacked him and the only people who could disprove this was the Imperium.

I'm thus getting the sinking feeling that the name of the arc - "The Victory" - is not going to refer to an Imperial victory. Rather, it's gonna refer to the victor of the upcoming Chaos civil war, and that a far more dangerous foe may emerge to challenge the crusade.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Ugolino »

I'm still baffled by why Gaunt hasn't been shot for radicalism, and an alleged Chaotic defector didn't result in a quick purging with flamers. Seems a lot of the Crusade's members are going more than a little Radical.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Imperial Overlord »

Ugolino wrote:I'm still baffled by why Gaunt hasn't been shot for radicalism, and an alleged Chaotic defector didn't result in a quick purging with flamers. Seems a lot of the Crusade's members are going more than a little Radical.
1) Gaunt has patrons that are high up and he delivers results. He's a colonel-commissar who has repeatedly delivered results under extreme circumstances.

2) If you want to get technical, Radicalism isn't a crime, it's a philosophical stance followed by some members of the Inquisition. Some of the more extreme types of Radicalism are illegal and one can argue that at various points Radicalism slides into heresy, but the same is true of Puritanism. Saying "Gaunt is a Radical" isn't a reason to shoot him in the back of the head (nor particularly true). "Gaunt is a dirty heretic", on the other hand, is a reason to kill him.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Radical vs Puritan is essentailly the 40K version of "Democrat vs Republican" or "Liberal vs Conservative" - only it can involve gunplay and/or fire.

Basically you have two (broad) philsoohpical extremes in the Imperium - the radical/progressive, or the puritan/conservative. And there are going to be groups who sit in between those two extreme,s or branch off in other directions from those extremes, etc. I'm just simplifying it a bit.

In 40K the progressives represent the sorts of things the Imperium needs and likes - change, technological research and invention, and so on. But it has its downsides as well, since radicalism gone to extremes in the Imperium can lead to the sorts of Inquisitors who think the best way to serve the Imperium is to apply the b5 Shadows Philosohpy to it, or evne just tear it down and rebuild it from the groundwork (also known as the Sarpedon Plan). Puritans are just the opposite, in a way. But they don't include people who just want things to remain the same (conservatives like the Amalathians) they actually include people who think things are too liberal and progressive and that they have to purge those dissident elements if the Imperium is to survive (Monodominants). They are bad in extremes as well, since they would doom the Imperium to complete and utter stagnation and quite probably cripple elements of it that are important to its success, if not survival (such as useful mutants, like psykers.) But you also need some puritans to balance out the radicals (and to purge them if they become a threat.)

Alot of this applies mainly in terms of the Inquisition, but it actually occurs quite a bit in various other factions. You have radical and puritanical AdMech for example, and there are the same for Rogue Trader.s Marines can also vary in temperament from RAdical to puritan in their own way. I imagine the Ecclearichy, Adminstratum, and the militaries also have their own factions (The Navy had that "big guns vs carriers" dissention in BFG - the Gaerox Prerogative I believe.) And how a person, faction, or action is viewed depends a great deal on the politics of the situation (where you are, whose in charge where you are, what connections they have, the enemies they've made, etc.) One sector's heresy may be another's dogma/doctrine. It doesn't even stay consistent over time, much less place or organization.

It's huge, its messy, and its inefficient, but its also rather endemic to the way the Imperium is set up and exists.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Zinegata »

Gaunt was very nearly shot after the Gereon mission, until the general who had sent him to the said mission bailed him out. He's also been under much greater scrutiny of the Commissariat since then (albeit that's been going on since Hark got assigned to the regiment in Honour Guard), which could also account for the six Commissars in his regiment when we typically see only one.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Darksider »

Also, It's heavily implied that Mabbon is only going to live as long as he can provide the crusade forces with useful information. After that, he's pretty much a dead man. Sure, they're being a bit nicer to him than other chaos prisoners that they torture for information, but someone is going to put him down as soon as they believe he's outlived his usefulness. Whether that's crusade command or the inquisition remains to be seen.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Bedlam »

I finished it a few days ago and liked it.

I loved the space combat part, how well it fits into other combat's I dont know the fight seemed rather short partucularly the one shot kill. Loved the name of the chaos battleship.

Lots of space marines being awsome, somewhat over the top but I sort of allow that in an imperial guard book from the guard point of view the marines should be gods and thats more of less what they are in this. I liked the White scar coming back to see if the guard had a good reason not to be following the marines, like being all dead.

I wonder is Mabbon is working for a third party on the chaos side who wants the other two warlords brought down so they can step up?

Merrt had a good death which I saw comeing from a while off although his last words were great 'I'm not a very good shot' Bang.

Compaired to other Ghost's novels it seemed to lead the most into future books with a fair number of points still floating out there, the traitor, the battleship, the band havn't prooved themselves to be useful or not yet, Gaunt's son hasn't done much and Gaunt's commissar friend hasn't done anything significant to overcome his possible cowardness.

To me there seems to be several things pointing to something being up with Tona Criid's adopted daughter, one of the hangers on's sure that Gol had two son's rather than a son and a daughter and the girl seems to look younger than you should. I wonder if the original baby died at some point and the girl is actually Tona's biological daughter? It seems rather far fetched but otherwise I cant see why they had the bit the the camp follower daying Gol had two sons.
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Re: Gaunt's Ghosts - Salvation's Reach (Lots of Spoilers)

Post by Zinegata »

Gol was pretty certain that Yoncy was his daughter when he first saw her. It's more likely that the woman who thought Gol had 2 sons was wrong. There's an awful lot of misinformation floating around out there - heck as far as Balhaut was concerned Gaunt died at the Tower of the Plutocrat. Yoncy being Criid's biological daughter is about as likely as her becoming the next vessel for Saint Sabbat

Also, Blenner's arc actually seems to have a bit more resolution than the others. It's very understated, but Blenner has actually shown a penchant for doing the right thing at the right time to help people. He bailed WIlder out multiple times (including when he caught a punch meant for Gaunt), got Felyx and the band to see some action without exposing them to too much fire, and gave Curth some much needed emotional support. And he apparently also doesn't realize he's done all of this.

Personally, that makes him kinda endearing in a Ciaphas Cain sort of way. He's a cowardly commissar who never gives himself any credit - and yet manages to accomplish a lot of things anyway. He doesn't really need to develop a silver tongue on the battlefield like the Belladon's original commissar. Gaunt (and recently, Luhd) can already cover that aspect - Blenner just needs to realize he's the Jurgen of this series.
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