Star Wars versus The Thing

[Thinktank]

Hell, I could easily see the infected posing as Republic relief forces and only dropping the facade when it's too late to fight back.

The Thing is an incredibly scary piece of work.

Other than being unerringly tuned to survival. There is not really much known of the Thing's other motives and inclinations. It's portrayals including the novel are all in a tight threatening environment, with inteligent (for the most part) and capable members of an alien (to it) species. Who when challenged gets very devoted to winning at all costs. If it were not in a "hostile" situation we do not know how fast it would spread or what it would do. The SW galaxy is remarkably non xenophobic compared modern humanity, even in the GE era. So i tmay not feel so threatened and may increase it's numbers for very strategic reasons. Also what would it do after the "conquest phase" on a seriously populated planet? Does it get lonely? Do the "Assimilated" start to regain their more "Thing acceptable" behaviors if they revert to their initial form? Which the infected tend to do if they are left unthreatened long enough.

We simply do not know much about the species' behavior beyond the "Infectious" and "Hardcore" traits that has been shown/printed. In the novel the 'Thing' seems very, very knowlegable and has a bit of Lovecraftian monster flavored disdain for the humans around it. That said, it did not behave in a particularly "Snidely Whiplash" fashion. The creature also in it's various host forms does eat food. So it does not need to infect to gain sustennance. It infects to increase it's control it's environment and improve it's odds of survival. Very basic drives in a sentient being. The assimilation is it's most effective tool, unless it has access to a galaxy full of awesome weapons and incredibly fast spacecraft....

[ThomasP]

I don't know how "canon" this is (as if that even matters), but Peter Watts's short story The Things gives an interesting take on the creature's perspective and its motivations. I don't know if anything there will be of use, but it might spur some thought or alternative scenarios.

[Dr Roberts]

This may help.http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/The_Thing

[Shroom Man 777]

Quantify how the Thing, which is in essence just a shifting puddle of Shoggothian tissue, will read any differently in the Force than all the teeming trillions of meatbags crawling around in Coruscant or wherever? Particularly if the Thing doesn't even think like normal creatures, and when it's primary directive is to "spread" or "reproduce", which means its emotion or whatever will probably be read by a Force user as no different from a million other horny honeymoon goers visiting Coruscant to try the antigravity fuckshacks?

Well, the Thing is more single-minded, I would argue- even horny honeymoon-goers have things on their brain other than "propagate the species," and they don't think in terms of infecting other people and turning them into copies of themselves.

The thing is (hur hur hur), does it even think like normal organoid beings (this may make it easier or harder to find, if Jedi can sense "horrible unnatural intelligences" or if the Thing's weird thoughts are just... on an entirely different frequency and pass undetected)? And do the infected themselves even know they're actually Things? Well, the scientist did when he started building that UFO under the shack. But some of the other guys seemed all surprised when their own chest cavity opened up into grotesque maws. Maybe those infected by the Thing don't know they're Things. Or maybe the Thing evolved awesome acting capabilities.

If the Thing is all about "propagating the species", how would it be any different from so many other kinds of lifeforms on Coruscant? This is, if it even consciously thinks of that.

The thought process of a creature, whose component tissues can independently function to survive even when separated from the greater whole, is bound to be strange. It's like a meaty T-1000. Normal organic creaturoids would be like T-800 neural net processor microchips compared to its meaty squishy mimetic poly alloy.



Thinktank:

The idea that the Thing isn't some horrifically viral monstrosity that would spread throughout the world (as theorized by Snake Plisskin, Shaft and their friends), and that it only did so because folks started trying to flamethrower its ass (or when dogs started snarling at it), and otherwise when non-threatened in a non-hostile environment would otherwise continue on in their normal forms without busting out crab-limbs and tentacles, is cool. If without being threatened it's just content to stay there, no more dangerous as tapeworms in the gut or like all those other microorganisms hanging around in the body.

Heck, that'd make it even cooler than a "must infectorize everyone" villain. A bit like the xenomorph, but different. In the whole impassive entirely non-human alien intelligence Lovecraftianoid angle.

This isn't what the OP is speculating though. But whatever.

[Molyneux]

And do the infected themselves even know they're actually Things? Well, the scientist did when he started building that UFO under the shack. But some of the other guys seemed all surprised when their own chest cavity opened up into grotesque maws. Maybe those infected by the Thing don't know they're Things. Or maybe the Thing evolved awesome acting capabilities.

This right here is what freaking terrified me about the story. The idea that the infectees might well have retained their original minds - might be mentally intact, despite their body being composed of Thing cells - until their cover is blown, and their body starts betraying them in horrifying and possibly agonizing ways - frankly gave me nightmares. And of course, you can never be sure that the mind is actually still intact - it might be just a Thing, acting with uncanny verisimilitude, so if you don't kill it immediately it will infect and kill you, leaves you unable to let things lie if you have any suspicion at all.

Thinktank:

The idea that the Thing isn't some horrifically viral monstrosity that would spread throughout the world (as theorized by Snake Plisskin, Shaft and their friends), and that it only did so because folks started trying to flamethrower its ass (or when dogs started snarling at it), and otherwise when non-threatened in a non-hostile environment would otherwise continue on in their normal forms without busting out crab-limbs and tentacles, is cool. If without being threatened it's just content to stay there, no more dangerous as tapeworms in the gut or like all those other microorganisms hanging around in the body.

Heck, that'd make it even cooler than a "must infectorize everyone" villain. A bit like the xenomorph, but different. In the whole impassive entirely non-human alien intelligence Lovecraftianoid angle.

This isn't what the OP is speculating though. But whatever.

The problem is, I think that even a non-hostile Thing would still spread and infect, just by the nature of how its cells work. If it got out, it would take over every piece of organic material capable of supporting it - regardless of how its hosts felt, or if they even knew they were hosts.

If the Thing had escaped Antarctica, and spread throughout the world, there would be no way for an outside observer to tell whether the planet was inhabited by unknowing Thing hosts, or whether the entire planetary population had simply been replaced, consumed by the Thing, all the minds of its populace dead with their bodies simply going through the motions to avoid blowing the Thing's cover.

The former would be interesting, though disturbing. The latter scares the ever-living hell out of me.

[DudeGuyMan]

The idea that the Thing wasn't really looking for a fight or to eat the world is interesting, but given it's intelligence and knowledge, I consider it a bit telling that it never attempted to communicate. It could do things like sabotage the blood supply and try to frame MacReady, it could have left a note reading "Stop trying to flamethrower me you savages, I don't know what's going on!" somewhere to be found.

[Thinktank]

The idea that the Thing wasn't really looking for a fight or to eat the world is interesting,

I do think it wants to eat the world, any world. But in the SW Galaxy it can most certainly take a very patient and effective route. Remember it has to fuel it'self just like any life form. In the Sw Galaxy it very much pick and choose for optimal effect strategically instead of merely tactically. Enemies become the most dangerous when they have the inteligence and option for the "long game" over the shown "Gotta assimilate them all!" Pokething method.

but given it's intelligence and knowledge, I consider it a bit telling that it never attempted to communicate.

We humans as a species can't even reliably trust our own due to basic language, pigmentation, and chosen attire variances. Coming from another planet or planets, a whole different magnitude of social obstacles. That and it knew how hostile and reactive we are the moment it assimilated a human. It knew the depth and intensity of our better and lesser natures. Knowing that, it likely made a very logical choice in forgoing diplomacy with mankind.

RE: TFAW VS Deathstar Crew.

Not even Vader or Tarkin have a snowball's chance in hell of stopping or preventing that kind of disaster. Well short of blowing the whole station up of course.

[Simon_Jester]

Minor note:

I'm not sure individual Thing organisms can be counted on to work in each other's interests. Certainly they don't in the Campbell story- one Thing will stand by and watch others be tested and killed, simply to preserve the hope of escaping detection itself.

[Shroom Man 777]

If we go by the whole guy doesn't know he's a Thing until he mutatifies, for all we know Snake Plisskin could've been a Thing or have been infected by a Thing while he was killing other Things or something (hahaha) like that. Escape from Antarctica!

A minor quibble in the Thing on Thing theory is that if Things sprout mutant tentacles when threatened, won't a Thing-hunting (but also Thing-infected) Snake Plisskin when encountering a mutant tentacle-sprouting Thing also end up sprouting tentacles out of self defense?

Maybe there's also a "critical mass" level required for people to sprout tentacles. Like, if the infection hasn't spread that much yet, he can't go on and sprout tentacles or do gnarly shit (or won't even know he's a Thing yet) or something.

It's kind of like AIDS, how the immuno system doesn't even react when the Things start infesticating their cells.

[DudeGuyMan]

I prefer to believe they're just really good actors.

[Shroom Man 777]

Best part of the body horror is in not even realizing that the parasite is inside you.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Minor note:

I'm not sure individual Thing organisms can be counted on to work in each other's interests. Certainly they don't in the Campbell story- one Thing will stand by and watch others be tested and killed, simply to preserve the hope of escaping detection itself.

There was another thread that I asked a similar question: If there were multiple infected, and they knew of each other, would they consider the others competition? But in regards to letting another infected die, it's a good survival instinct whether individual infected are truly individuals or working towards a greater good: Better one infected die and one live on undiscovered than blowing your own cover and possibly resulting in two infected dying.

A minor quibble in the Thing on Thing theory is that if Things sprout mutant tentacles when threatened, won't a Thing-hunting (but also Thing-infected) Snake Plisskin when encountering a mutant tentacle-sprouting Thing also end up sprouting tentacles out of self defense?

I'd say no. Being scared of The Thing is a human reaction. The Thing only acts in self-defense when it feels truly threatened, namely by people who've shown the capability of burning it to a crisp. Anything short of total immolation barely slows an infected down, what's another Thing going to do? Infect it again?

[Shroom Man 777]

Hmmm yeah, the Thing-infected didn't react monstrously when it got its hand slashed.

Why did the dog start mutatifying anyway?

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Hmmm yeah, the Thing-infected didn't react monstrously when it got its hand slashed.

Why did the dog start mutatifying anyway?

I remember this from the other thread!

Alright, apparently there was a scene cut from the movie that explained the dogs. Basically it was in there for several hours with all the other dogs, it waited for everyone to go to sleep, then tried to take all the dogs over at once. Unfortunately the scene was cut, and thus it looked like it changed only a few seconds after it was put in with the rest of the dogs.

[Simon_Jester]

If we go by the whole guy doesn't know he's a Thing until he mutatifies, for all we know Snake Plisskin could've been a Thing or have been infected by a Thing while he was killing other Things or something (hahaha) like that. Escape from Antarctica!

A minor quibble in the Thing on Thing theory is that if Things sprout mutant tentacles when threatened, won't a Thing-hunting (but also Thing-infected) Snake Plisskin when encountering a mutant tentacle-sprouting Thing also end up sprouting tentacles out of self defense?

Maybe there's also a "critical mass" level required for people to sprout tentacles. Like, if the infection hasn't spread that much yet, he can't go on and sprout tentacles or do gnarly shit (or won't even know he's a Thing yet) or something.

It's kind of like AIDS, how the immuno system doesn't even react when the Things start infesticating their cells.

Well again, all I know is the Campbell story, where it's strongly implied that you do know you've been infected and won't be surprised by tentacles and whatnot.

Minor note:
I'm not sure individual Thing organisms can be counted on to work in each other's interests. Certainly they don't in the Campbell story- one Thing will stand by and watch others be tested and killed, simply to preserve the hope of escaping detection itself.

There was another thread that I asked a similar question: If there were multiple infected, and they knew of each other, would they consider the others competition? But in regards to letting another infected die, it's a good survival instinct whether individual infected are truly individuals or working towards a greater good: Better one infected die and one live on undiscovered than blowing your own cover and possibly resulting in two infected dying.

Well, under some conditions maybe not. In the climactic scene of Who Goes There?, about fourteen of thirty men in the Antarctic base are Things. Under those conditions it might actually be possible for them to simply rush and overpower all the remaining humans on the base, 'turning' them... if they were coordinated. If they were operating as individuals, though, and less willing to accept personal risk as long as they personally might escape detection, it makes more sense.

Hmmm yeah, the Thing-infected didn't react monstrously when it got its hand slashed.

Why did the dog start mutatifying anyway?

I remember this from the other thread!

Alright, apparently there was a scene cut from the movie that explained the dogs. Basically it was in there for several hours with all the other dogs, it waited for everyone to go to sleep, then tried to take all the dogs over at once. Unfortunately the scene was cut, and thus it looked like it changed only a few seconds after it was put in with the rest of the dogs.

Yep. That's how it was in Campbell, too.

[Molyneux]

Well again, all I know is the Campbell story, where it's strongly implied that you do know you've been infected and won't be surprised by tentacles and whatnot.

Implied, yes, but as far as I recall, I don't think they were really sure either way. The Thing that built the ship could have just felt the compulsion to do so without realizing why.

If any of you have read A Wizard's Dilemma, this really reminds me of Pralaya's predicament more than anything else. I think I might just rather have been overshadowed by the Lone Power than by the Thing, though. At least one of them can only kill you - once you're dead, LP can't keep on pretending to be you.

[CaptHawkeye]

Um, Durge? Shape shifting absorbing nightmares are not new to the Star Wars galaxy. The threat posed is even less so when most of your armies are made up of guys in sealed armor or freaking droids.

If the Thing ends up in Star Wars it will have to avoid making any mistakes at all in its stealth routine because the brute force option is totally unacceptable this time.

[Shroom Man 777]

double post please delete

[Shroom Man 777]

Because the Thing will totally do its shtick in an active warzone and try to infest combat robots and NBC-sealed soldiers because it's way easier than undertaking the difficulty of, I dunno, infecting the vast and extremely dense and unwary civilian populations scattered all over the galaxy?

Oh, maybe they'll even charge straight towards the enemy soldiers directly, while the clonetroopers charge also towards them headless of cover across an open desert battlefield!

I guess this can happen if, when infected by the Thing, Star Wars peoples brains end up being assumed to be spherical masses of iron that require XYZ piggatons of shitty 1970s special effects to vaporize in how many frames per second by invisible energy beams guided by visible green blob pew-pew tracers though vaporization may take longer to happen if the ironspherebrains have neutrino heatsinks that radiate the accumulated heat via tachyonic hyperspatial tubulations into the far higher bands of lower infraspace.

Also, Durge was just one dude with gnarly shapeshifting powers and pew-pew blasteroids. Oh, and he wasn't an extremely infective being that could infest people at a cellular level through a variety of means of contact. At least, I assume he isn't an extremely infective being, while assuming brains are made out of spherical masses of iron and such.

Whoops.

It's not like bioweapons have ever been a threat to people in Star Wars nor have bioweapons ever been a crucial element in the Extrauterine Universe stories... because robots and sealed armor!

[CaptHawkeye]

Part of the reason The Thing could get away with what it could was because weapons to combat it with were scarce. Basically flamethrowers and high explosives because small arms ain't getting the job done. In the GFFA though, blasters incorporate aspects of both HE and incendiary weapons and are everywhere.

This is also of course hoping for The Thing's sake that bio-scanners and sensors can't pick it up and aren't common. Or that every dog/alien dog on the street won't be barking at it everywhere it goes. The way animals detect the Thing has been inconsistent but leans against the creature. A dog in the prequel flipped out when the Thing wasn't even in the room and the dogs in the kennel in the original called it out not long after it sat down.

[Alerik the Fortunate]

It strikes me as unlikely, though, that enough of the civilian and criminal underworld population of Coruscant would be subjected to routine scanning or dog sniffing to ferret out the majority of Thing infestations before it had achieved a dangerous level of spread, including possibly to other worlds. Power of weaponry isn't really an issue; even if they knew about the Thing and had the capacity to wipe it out, would they make the commitment? Would the Republic be willing or able to mobilize quickly enough to quarantine (let alone BDZ) Coruscant before Thing commandeered vessels made it out and began colonizing backwater worlds?

Also, Shroomy I think I love you.

[Eleas]

Part of the reason The Thing could get away with what it could was because weapons to combat it with were scarce. Basically flamethrowers and high explosives because small arms ain't getting the job done. In the GFFA though, blasters incorporate aspects of both HE and incendiary weapons and are everywhere.

Part of the reason The Thing was even in the situation we saw in the movie was the arctic conditions; it had a marked lack of viable hosts. In any reasonable Star Wars situation, there will be civilians, there will be vermin, there will be a staggering number of opportunities for geometric expansion. Hell, for all we know, it might be able to convert plant matter.

Once it starts to spread, you'd be pretty much fucked. If you can't even eradicate vagrants from Coruscant's underworld, how are you going to cope with a sentient biomatter plague?

[Crateria]

Part of the reason The Thing could get away with what it could was because weapons to combat it with were scarce. Basically flamethrowers and high explosives because small arms ain't getting the job done. In the GFFA though, blasters incorporate aspects of both HE and incendiary weapons and are everywhere.

Part of the reason The Thing was even in the situation we saw in the movie was the arctic conditions; it had a marked lack of viable hosts. In any reasonable Star Wars situation, there will be civilians, there will be vermin, there will be a staggering number of opportunities for geometric expansion. Hell, for all we know, it might be able to convert plant matter.

Once it starts to spread, you'd be pretty much fucked. If you can't even eradicate vagrants from Coruscant's underworld, how are you going to cope with a sentient biomatter plague?

The end of the Star Wars Galaxy is complete. The ability of the Thing to mimic its targets is its strength.

Within a few decades there is no more life except Things in the Galaxy if there is no detection or not enough detection.

God forbid it can spread to other galaxies. No more universe.

[Oni Koneko Damien]

Part of the reason The Thing could get away with what it could was because weapons to combat it with were scarce. Basically flamethrowers and high explosives because small arms ain't getting the job done. In the GFFA though, blasters incorporate aspects of both HE and incendiary weapons and are everywhere.

1) Technically there was more deadly ordinance per person in the Antarctic expedition than there is in a country under a brutal military dictatorship.
2) Exactly how is the GFFA going to know what to point those blasters at? The Thing's greatest strength is looking and acting just like anything else.

This is also of course hoping for The Thing's sake that bio-scanners and sensors can't pick it up and aren't common. Or that every dog/alien dog on the street won't be barking at it everywhere it goes. The way animals detect the Thing has been inconsistent but leans against the creature. A dog in the prequel flipped out when the Thing wasn't even in the room and the dogs in the kennel in the original called it out not long after it sat down.

Oh dear, it looks like someone didn't read the thread before jumping in.

[Molyneux]

Part of the reason The Thing could get away with what it could was because weapons to combat it with were scarce. Basically flamethrowers and high explosives because small arms ain't getting the job done. In the GFFA though, blasters incorporate aspects of both HE and incendiary weapons and are everywhere.

1) Technically there was more deadly ordinance per person in the Antarctic expedition than there is in a country under a brutal military dictatorship.
2) Exactly how is the GFFA going to know what to point those blasters at? The Thing's greatest strength is looking and acting just like anything else.

This is also of course hoping for The Thing's sake that bio-scanners and sensors can't pick it up and aren't common. Or that every dog/alien dog on the street won't be barking at it everywhere it goes. The way animals detect the Thing has been inconsistent but leans against the creature. A dog in the prequel flipped out when the Thing wasn't even in the room and the dogs in the kennel in the original called it out not long after it sat down.

Oh dear, it looks like someone didn't read the thread before jumping in.

No, no, I think he might be on to something there - about dogs and such noticing the creature, that is.

Presumably, in some manner, it doesn't quite smell right to a dog when it is pretending to be a dog. How many alien races are there in the Star Wars universe with close-to-dog-level olfactory senses? Wookies, maybe?