SGU S02E08 Malice (SPOILERS)

[Adrian McNair]

Episode eight of Universe's second season has aired. In light of the feedback from the previous episode thread I have once again revised the ratings system. Here are my thoughts:

- Though I loathed the plot development that led to this episode (it's an annoying cliche), the events that transpired this week did go some way to making up for that mistake.
- This really was Nicholas Rush's hour. Robert Carlyle gave an excellent performance, shifting from anger to sorrow. Seeing Rush in vengeance mode was awesome, with the highlight of the episode being when he triggered that stampede. I'm glad he killed Simeon. Letting that bastard live would have been a cop-out and would have considerably cheapened the episode.
- So Rush wasn't lying about Destiny's primary mission. I'm still somewhat vary about it because it does reek of intelligence design, but I'll wait and see. As long as they don't try to invoke God(s) into it then they might just be able to make it work.
- Chloe is such a walking plot device. Surprise, surprise. She can mutate into a Blue for all I care. At least then we'll get some interesting make-up and CGI effects out of it.
- Simeon was so very full of shit about having lost people that he was close to. He was nothing more than an amoral piece of garbage who didn't hesitate to murder a defenceless woman. Seeing him getting trampled by those alien beasts and then shot in the head was very satisfying. I'm with Eli and Rush on this one. He never would have provided them with any useful information. Any intel he did give would probably be of dubious merit anyway. If Homeworld Command wants useful data then they should co-ordinate with the To'kra and other assets on further covert operations.
- That piece of music that played at the end as Rush was walking back to the Gate was very BSG-esque. Is Joel Goldsmith going to be echoing Bear McCreary's output for the rest of the season?

Here's a promo for next week's installment, Visitation.



Four out of five from me this week.

[PLR2]

I'm not going to lie. I couldn't stomach watching this episode after last weeks ending. Though, considering you rated this episode so highly and you think so low of the show I think I will need to watch it.

[CaptainChewbacca]

It was a really, really good follow-up to last week. Moreover, I noticed they didn't say one way or another if Ginn's consciousness was still alive on earth. Or, if they did then I missed it.

[Adrian McNair]

I'm not going to lie. I couldn't stomach watching this episode after last weeks ending. Though, considering you rated this episode so highly and you think so low of the show I think I will need to watch it.

I'm sorry but what are you basing this on? My criticisms of The Greater Good? If you've been following my threads then you'd know that the opposite is true. I'm in for the entire season. Why would I view a show that I hate?

I call the shots as I see them. I have praised the show when it has hit the high notes (Such as with Trial and Error) and I've been scathing of it (As shown with my review of Cloverdale). If I feel that an episode is poor, I'm not going to sugarcoat my views on it. I'm also not going to overlook the flaws of otherwise good episodes (like with my thread on The Greater Good) either.

It was a really, really good follow-up to last week. Moreover, I noticed they didn't say one way or another if Ginn's consciousness was still alive on earth. Or, if they did then I missed it.

She and Perry are both dead. James confirmed that Perry was dead and Rush found Ginn's body. Besides, why would Eli be in such an emotional state if that wasn't the case?

[PLR2]

I phrased badly. You've had a harsher opinion than others. i didn't mean to say you were watching a show you didn't like or hated. It just seemed to me your overall opinion hasn't been too warm to SG:U. My apologies. I know that you gave other episodes high marks.

[dragon]

Those little explosive made a nice bang for sure, but I agree how Chloe is turning into deus ex machina after all so what if she becoming an alien she still shouldn't be figure the commands out so rapidily.

[JME2]

Ginn's death and Deus Ex Chloe are the are only real problems I had with this episode.

It was otherwise a great continuation of last week. It was interesting to root for Rush for a change and immensely satisfying to see him take out Simeon. I agree that any intel he'd have provided would have been questionable and likely false; he'd already lied before.

It was also interesting to see Eli's character become darker; it was almost disconcerting to see the normally comedic nerd this angry and emotional. We've seen him upset before ("Time"), but never like this. I'll be curious to see if he manages to come back or starts spiraling downwards ala Young.

Also, Greer's "Is it something we can barbecue?" bit had me cracking up.

4/5

[CaptJodan]

Another well handled episode overall, even with the few bumps in the road with the afore mentioned Chloe and Ginn aspects. I was genuinely worried they might also have killed off James, but thankfully they didn't. Simeon did have a good run of killing or wounding people as he went through the ship, though.

While I agree that this was a predominately Rush centered episode, the episode had a surprising amount of character development for many other characters. Eli's reaction in this episode was something we hadn't seen before, even going so far as to wanting to join Rush in killing the guy. Scott actually seemed to be giving decent advice to Rush, balancing both his orders and being a human being at the same time. Greer, who is always a fun character, displays his (apparently well-founded) mistrust for Rush, despite Young's orders. Given how many times Rush withholds information throughout the entire episode, Greer's right not to trust the bastard.

I find it hard to believe that Homeworld Command is this stupid, unless it's the IOA pulling the strings behind the scenes. Either that, or Young didn't try very hard to convince them of the unlikelihood of Simeon giving them anything. It's not like the SGC could torture him, as he'd be in someone else's body. Even if you did torture him, I get the feeling this guy wouldn't break. The only way I can realistically see this working is if they somehow hooked him up to that machine that they hooked Cameron up to that helps someone relive memories. But there are other problems with that. SGU isn't bringing too much of the old tech material into the show (probably because the creators knew they'd gone a little too far and wanted to take a few steps back), so I doubt we'd see it. They'd probably say that that machine was destroyed when Area 51 was attacked.

I'd rant about Chloe, but others have already beat me to it. It seems to me the creators heard how the fans didn't like her uselessness, so invented this plotline to make her useful. They missed the point, though. She's still a shallow and obnoxious character. I loathe having to see more episodes devoted to her. Ok, so I ranted a little.

I'm happy to see the characters at large are still affected by Riley's death. He was a recurring character, but not a major one (probably most relevant as "gate technician"), but the impact of is death is still being felt. Glad they just didn't forget about him after his death.

Overall, I'm going to give it another 4. I actually thought this episode would suck more, not so much because of the Ginn and Chloe issues, but because I feared it would be all action based. Instead, it was a very balanced episode with plenty of action but even more character development.

[Imperial Overlord]

I've enjoyed this episode more than any in recent memory. I didn't like Ginn's death in the previous episode because I liked her, but Symeon's guard turning up dead (nice body count for this episode, how many soldiers do they have left anyway?) does nicely explain why he was running around loose. It's not hard to imagine Symeon taking advantage of one careless moment. The struggle to save the wounded really drove home that this was a complete cluster fuck and people were dying.

I've become numb to Chloe's presence. Her problem is that her role is "girlfriend of more interesting character". They've tried to solve that by giving her mystery powers, but that's subverted by it 1) allowing her to survive getting shot, again not doing anything useful 2) she's still a passive receptacle of plot flow and 3) the only time she actively used them was to save her boyfriend. She's in a pretty deep hole and its hard to dig her out and their method isn't helping much. James aka Lieutenant Hooters (when's the last time you heard that nickname btw? is given far less attention and is a far more interesting character, despite her first two big moments essentially being fucking Scott in a closet and coming moist out of a shower and not really being given a whole lot of material. That's also why I think most people liked Ginn. Despite being flamboyant Eli love interest bait, our introduction to her was a demonstration of her technical skills and shooting an asshole who really had it coming. Chloe remains bland, fairly passive, and uninteresting.

Greer's "can we barbeque it?" is exactly the question I would expect someone living on a ship with Destiny's food supply issues. He continues to be awesome.

[JME2]

Greer, who is always a fun character, displays his (apparently well-founded) mistrust for Rush, despite Young's orders. Given how many times Rush withholds information throughout the entire episode, Greer's right not to trust the bastard.

It's the natural evolution of Greer's grudge from "Air". He clearly still feels that Rush screwed them all over in his zeal to dial the 9th chevron. He refuses to put any trust in Rush and he's right not to. Rush cannot be trusted and I'm dead certain that there's more to Destiny's mission than he witheled last week.

I find it hard to believe that Homeworld Command is this stupid, unless it's the IOA pulling the strings behind the scenes.

Probably. I'm wondering if we'll be seeing Carl Strom again this season. But I can picture the IOA trying to parlay any intel or findings about the attack into political capital to achieve more control over the Destiny expedition.

Speaking of Area 51, it raises a point about the impending attack. How much intel did Telford pass onto Kiva when he was brainwashed? Do they know that the Ancient Outpost is out of the game because the control chair was destroyed? Or did the SGC simply remove Atlantis' chair or transfer the Outpost's drones to the Lost City?

Greer's "can we barbeque it?" is exactly the question I would expect someone living on a ship with Destiny's food supply issues. He continues to be awesome.

Yeah. Any fears I had about Greer becoming Ford 2.0 are gone at this point; he's easily among my favorite characters now.

[Imperial Overlord]

Yeah. Any fears I had about Greer becoming Ford 2.0 are gone at this point; he's easily among my favorite characters now.

It's really an unfair comparison. The similarity between them is that they're black and military subordinates. Ford's problem was that he wasn't given anything interesting material until he was made a junkie. Greer was interesting from the get go, a guy who was in the slam but the senior officer sprung when the base was attacked. The closest thing to Ford in the series is actually Chloe.

[JME2]

Yeah. Any fears I had about Greer becoming Ford 2.0 are gone at this point; he's easily among my favorite characters now.

It's really an unfair comparison. The similarity between them is that they're black and military subordinates. Ford's problem was that he wasn't given anything interesting material until he was made a junkie. Greer was interesting from the get go, a guy who was in the slam but the senior officer sprung when the base was attacked. The closest thing to Ford in the series is actually Chloe.

Agreed,

[Themightytom]

Ok I'm one of the two. This is my favorite episode of the series, seriously, it only suffered from not being longer.

Simeon was a badass out of nowhere. The man has the ability to shoot through secondary character shields, that body count went up like a balloon. They didn't even have TIME to show him killing characters, his body guard Ginn and Amanda (A twofer) died off screen. Adios Airman Dunning, I still don't understand why you let Chloe get abducted, guess you're taking that to the grave.
I was disappointed that he didn't snipe Rush, even if what he said later was true because you know...

A Mine is a terrible thing to waste.

...


Also he uses the "Leave an explosive thing out in the open and wait for someone to run by and shoot it for one hit kill" strategy that I favor when trying to play halo. I wonder if Simeon was trying to eat a sandwich and work the controller with one hand too...

Either way it ended too soon. I could have tolerated a background Rush hunting Simeon through stargates plot for a few episodes. on the other hand the distant "boom" and the growing sound of stampede was a great bait and switch. I thought Rush was going to blow Simeon up with the C 4 not



As a matter of fact, when Simeon was lying down on the ground, I half expected it to be some uber badass Lucian Alliance trick that might enable him to survive and turn the table on Rush. Rush was playing up the incompetent shot I couldn't believe he'd miss by that much from that range. Should have known better, he's a ffan off westerns after all.

I'm liking the character development I see in the scientists. is till can't name them, but I think we saw the scene in the mess reenacted on Simeon's terms in the gate room. The female doctor was terrified the first time bolting from her chair, and brave the second time when Rush told her he couldn't turn off the mine. The male scientist was all chivalrous and brave the first time demanding Simeon apologize, and dumped himself the second time.Simeon was unwitting socially awkward rube the first time, diabolical sociopath the second.

Speaking of Rush, outstanding acting by Carlysle I was having trouble figuring out if Rush was faking the tears, because while i am sure he was feeling the feeling, I'd have thought that showing it was beneath him. he's all about control. i think i missed most of his conversation with Scott but did he at least acknowledge that the only reason Amanda was dead was because he was trying to be a dick and hide the bridge during an emergency?

Grear has got to be BEYOND pissed at Rush at this point, Rush's destruction pretty much got him shot. That particular team reminded me of Air in a different desert wasteland area. As usual Rush is a slippery asshole but now its out in the open and people are calling him out on it to his face. We also had a nice set up for ongoing debate between Scott and Rush regarding the nature of the universe. This doesn't bother me because I doubt they are setting up for intelligent design I'm just looking forward to the dialogue.

"She may not be dead Rush, we don't know if works both ways!"
Um TJ... really? REALLLY? Eli's standing right fucking there.
"hey this one's a goner, but maybe YOU won't end up desperate and alone Rush! But damn this one's definitely a goner."

Thanks for giving us like three minutes of screen time with the other Lucian... last Lucian character. he was obviously trying to tell Rush something but Rush wasn't trusting him at that point, probably suspected he wanted them to let Simeon go because of the Intel he had, not the danger he represented.

Chloe isn't "just" a walking plot device, she's rapidly turning into Rush's puppet. He's had her working on the FTL algorithms for months, i think she was aware of how it worked on some level and just needed to plug in variables like what buttons did what, where did they want to get to from where they were etc. Scott put the last piece together i think when he realized Rush had her working on solving their problems, "That son of a bitch, he's using my dick mitten as a calculator..."

She also sort of kind emoted some support in Eli's general direction. And Eli lapped that shit up like it was candy, awesome acting on David Blue's part as a guy who seems to have very little experience acting out but was experiencing some pretty intense emotions. he just came off as so damn socially stunted it was magnificent in a macabre way

Has anyone noticed that colonel Young's command style is to turn an objection on its ear and walk out of the room quickly before anyone offers a rebuttal. it's almost as annoying as his over- enunciation of vowels.

I think I see a change in dynamic here. The military held all the cards up until now, but it seems the civilians are the ones who can read ancient. Interesting.

[CaptainChewbacca]

One thing I think is funny is that they're giving Chloe pretty much the same arc Teyla was going through in SGA before the end. By that I mean emotional angst, loss of loved ones, and mysterious alien DNA that gives her mind powers. Also, both were pretty wooden and unlikeable characters that didn't really fit into most storylines.

[JME2]

I think I see a change in dynamic here. The military held all the cards up until now, but it seems the civilians are the ones who can read ancient. Interesting.

They also understand Destiny's tech better than the military does and now have the keys to the car, so to speak. It could end up generating a new cold war between the two factions if things deteriorate.

[Adrian McNair]

I phrased badly. You've had a harsher opinion than others. i didn't mean to say you were watching a show you didn't like or hated. It just seemed to me your overall opinion hasn't been too warm to SG:U. My apologies. I know that you gave other episodes high marks.

Oh have I now? You honestly think I've been as harsh as this? How about this?

If you want to see some truly harsh opinions of the series go the SyFy.com forum for the series or the Gateworld.net boards. In this context, I think that I've been fairly objective and even-handed rather than the people who actively want to see it cancelled because it doesn't fit their cosy escapist vision of what Stargate should be. If you want to point out anything that I've said that even compares to that then you're welcome to.

[PREDATOR490]

0 - Seriously cancel this shit

The return of the countdown -
9 hours was it ?
Last week we got 12 hours...
Oh right, Destiny just 'knows' to set the time at these varying amounts.
Really getting sick of this recurring plot point.

The apparant inability to control Destiny -

Previously: Rush: 'I am in control of Destiny'
This week: Apparantly they cant stop the countdown, alter course or do fuck all except tell the ship to 'stop' every 4 hours
What the fuck has Rush been doing for... MONTHS ?...

The past episodes have made ample suggestion Rush was getting control of Destiny and some progress towards that goal had finally been made last episode. Oh no, instead we find Rush has achieved little but browse the database for vague crap on 'GOD'. Not only is it infuriating for the blatant teasing of ACTUALLY being less 'Lost in Space' and more 'To Boldy Go'.
Now we can look forward to 'oh noez we are running out time, oh look 'plot device' magically solved it or 'hey everything worked out JUST in time''

Again, sick and tired of this.

Eli wanting revenge -

This added nothing to Eli because anyone would / should realise there was no way in hell Eli was EVER going achieve anything other than be left an ineffective twit. Not even because there is no way in hell that Actor is ever going to convince me he can take on a 'super elite' Lucian Alliance commando. Simply because the actor cannot portray someone that wants revenge.
'Hey, can I have one of these guns ?'
Because naturally someone that is gunning for revenge is going to ASK. Basically Eli comes across as less 'Homocidal rage' and more 'Whiny child upset over his toy being taken away so they are going to throw a 'dramatic' tantrum' I.E Ask to take the guns or generally act all 'angry' and shit with no real intention of following through on anything they say.
Have Rush haul Simone's ass back to Destiny and then have Eli butcher him with a machete or SOMETHING. All this episode leaves me thinking is Eli is going to spend the following episodes being an asshole to everyone. Battlestar Galactica did this kind of thing better I feel when Kylie ? was the one that gunned down Boomer in the end which was far more dramatic when she seemed like the 'innocent' girl.

Episode in general -

Chloe: Hey, I can be useful and have total control of my unknown powers because I have demonstrated this control so many times before... uhhh wait
Everet: If you say so, lets put her on the bridge and hope THREE EMOTIONALLY DISTURBED civilians can keep her in check.

Are you fucking kidding me ?

I wouldnt put Chloe in charge of cleaning the dishes in her compromised state but slapping her on the bridge with folks that are likely to be distracted even assuming they could spot anything adverse she did is INSANITY. They establish they have no understanding of Ancient systems and cant operate the ship properly but for some reason Everet thinks thses guys can check to make sure Chloe isnt doing anything 'bad'
Because naturally, if they have no understanding of how the system works they will be able to tell if Chloe is doing something 'wrong' ?

Frankly, this seemed less like a 'solve the current situation' issue and more foreshadowing of a future plot point. Hmmm... Chloe altering the ship programming while not knowing what she is doing... I wonder if that might have something to do with a bunch of aliens that may appear in future, eh ?

That said, Chloe magically being able to fix the ship in seconds while Rush has seemingly accomplished nothing in months is an improvement for her character but ultimately leaves me with the nothing but disgust.

It seems this show likes to pretend things are actually progressing when infact they are not, and then lurches forward out of nowhere to meet the demands of the new plot points.
I.E Rush seemingly finds the Bridge and is gaining control of the systems
*Poof*
Oh no, Rush dosent have control of the systems
*Poof*
Oh but Chloe comes out of nowhere and does her magic to solve the episode and setup what seems to be an obvious plot point for the up-coming 'cliffhanger'

[PLR2]

I phrased badly. You've had a harsher opinion than others. i didn't mean to say you were watching a show you didn't like or hated. It just seemed to me your overall opinion hasn't been too warm to SG:U. My apologies. I know that you gave other episodes high marks.

Oh have I now? You honestly think I've been as harsh as this? How about this?

If you want to see some truly harsh opinions of the series go the SyFy.com forum for the series or the Gateworld.net boards. In this context, I think that I've been fairly objective and even-handed rather than the people who actively want to see it cancelled because it doesn't fit their cosy escapist vision of what Stargate should be. If you want to point out anything that I've said that even compares to that then you're welcome to.

You're harsher and more vocal about it than others here at least i think so. But, I wasn't talking about those other places I don't visit those other places. And I'm not saying you're unfair or anything. I find you reviews helpful. I didn't mean to start an argument.

[Adrian McNair]

You're harsher and more vocal about it than others here at least i think so. But, I wasn't talking about those other places I don't visit those other places. And I'm not saying you're unfair or anything. I find you reviews helpful. I didn't mean to start an argument.

I find it deeply amusing, not to mention ironic, that your post came up right after PREDATOR490 gave the episode a zero (and then proceeded to list every single one of his gripes in a rant). If anything he's the harshest and most vocal user in these threads, not me. I just consider your appraisal to be slightly baffling (especially in light of sites like this).

But hey, I'm glad that you find my reviews to be helpful. That wasn't sarcasm. I aim to deliver.

[JME2]

Regarding all of this hate towards SGU on those forms, I said it last season and I'll say it again: this is all too reminiscent of the hate purist Trekies displayed towards DS9.

Of course, I'm not saying SGU is the next DS9 or that it's a perfect show, but at least I'm enjoying it -- especially after 12 years of the same stories.

[hongi]

I find it hard to believe that Homeworld Command is this stupid, unless it's the IOA pulling the strings behind the scenes. Either that, or Young didn't try very hard to convince them of the unlikelihood of Simeon giving them anything. It's not like the SGC could torture him, as he'd be in someone else's body. Even if you did torture him, I get the feeling this guy wouldn't break. The only way I can realistically see this working is if they somehow hooked him up to that machine that they hooked Cameron up to that helps someone relive memories. But there are other problems with that. SGU isn't bringing too much of the old tech material into the show (probably because the creators knew they'd gone a little too far and wanted to take a few steps back), so I doubt we'd see it. They'd probably say that that machine was destroyed when Area 51 was attacked.

Uh...couldn't you just do the same thing Young did to Telford? In other words, torture him on Destiny? Seeing as how lives on Earth are at stake, you've got to at least try.

[Themightytom]

Just waterboard the shit out of Simeon, they're not on American soil.

[NecronLord]

Speaking of Area 51, it raises a point about the impending attack. How much intel did Telford pass onto Kiva when he was brainwashed? Do they know that the Ancient Outpost is out of the game because the control chair was destroyed? Or did the SGC simply remove Atlantis' chair or transfer the Outpost's drones to the Lost City?

I'm not sure they'd need to do either. I'd be unsurprised if the Chair in Atlantis can control the outpost's silos, actually, the outpost was originally a docking platform for the city after all.

Just waterboard the shit out of Simeon, they're not on American soil.

It's probably against Alteran Law though!

I now have this image of the ship shutting down again because Young starts torturing people on board.

[Darksider]

I'm not sure they'd need to do either. I'd be unsurprised if the Chair in Atlantis can control the outpost's silos, actually, the outpost was originally a docking platform for the city after all.

Do you really think that Atlantis' chair can control the Earth outpost all the way from the pegasus galaxy?

The stones are the only Ancient tech we've seen with that kind of range.

[PREDATOR490]

Since the show has made no indication about the status of Atlantis and the last we saw it was cloaked on Earth, I dont see why it has to be in the Pegasus Galaxy.
Frankly, they could either sink it to the bottom of the ocean on Earth or move it somewhere within the Milky Way and there is no imperative to go back to Pegasus.

I suspect we will find out they did move it back to Pegasus just to make the city disappear off any potential appearances. Especially with an 'impending' Lucian Alliance attack. Although there has been no indication how the LA have managed to escalate to a point where Earth seems to be shitting itself and can overpower X304s.
If Atlantis IS on Earth, I really want to see how the LA have come up with firepower that can somehow threaten the city.

That said, I always found these 'impending attacks' pointless. If they want to screw up Earth then really all they have to do is get one clean shot at the White House or do a broadcast that alerts the general public to the existence of the Stargate program. The following unrest is likely to keep the SGC tied up considerably and SGU would allow them to relay some of whats going on without showing too much.