Imperium of Man vs Galactic Empire.

[Bloody Chaplain]

I've been a long time avid star wars fan since I saw the 20th anniversary showings with my dad, and shouted for Vader to cut Luke's head off in the theater. Since then however, I picked up my new favorite sci fi universe. Warhammer 40k. I've thought alot about this subject myself, and been on some other boards watching what people say and getting into debates about both sides merits and hindrances. The most common conclusion is that 40k wins, hands down.

That is not why I am posting this however. From people who know far more about SW than I do, (EU and all that,) I want to know what type of damage the Galactic Empire could do to the IoM. Scenarios like the GE fighting guerrilla style, straight up fights of similarly sized forces, and the like. How long would it take the IoM to conquer the GE with both factions having all their enemies in their stranded cannon, or only each other.

Also, if anybody thinks that the GE could defeat the IoM then feel free to post also. I'd be more than interested to have my theories challenged or refuted.

[Mystikal]

There are posters who might grace you with a decent answer or a link to discussions of this.

But not me.

Let me sum this up for you.

GE would win.

You are an idiot.

This is the kindest, shortest response you are entitled to.

[Shroom Man 777]

The Galactic Empire's warships can travel from one end of the galaxy to the other in a matter of hours, while the Imperium's vessels takes weeks at best and months at norm and years at most. Thus, Star Wars ships are faster.

From observed visuals in vaporizing asteroids, and in literature, Star Wars ships are capable of conducting devastating orbital bombardments at teratons+ yield. Star Wars literature has described a single Imperial Star Destroyer being able to burninate an unshielded world's surface by itself in a matter of hours. Whereas Imperium vessels performing Exterminatus either need massive numbers, or virus bombs (that need to react with living organisms) or rare cyclonic torpedoes.

Thus, Star Wars vessels like the ISD are at least on par with IoM vessels. At best, they exceed IoM vessels in firepower. In speed, there is no contest and IoM vessels are like slow slugsnailsloths to SW ships.

Manufacturing-wise, Star Wars manages to create things like the Death Star and the Death Star 2 - battle stations hundreds of KM in diameter, with yields powerful enough to utterly destroy planets - in secret, and in the case of the DS2 merely in a matter of months. Whereas the IoM often makes use of ships that are centuries old, and I'm unsure if there have been engineering feats of the IoM that matches the Death Stars. I also don't know if the IoM has weapons systems capable of blowing entire planets to pieces with one shot.

Star Wars also employs planetary shielding that can withstand ISD bombardments, necessitating Death Stars for planetary destruction. Does the IoM employ planetary shielding, as in shields that cover the ENTIRE planet? I haven't heard of it. So, in defensive terms, Star Wars has the advantage in this.

Communications-wise, Star Wars has galaxy-spanning Holonet and even Obi-Wan Kenobi was able to communicate from the edge of the galaxy in Kamino to the central galactic capital of Coruscant in real-time. In 40k, communications require telepaths and their ranges are affected by things like the warp. If 40k communications is similar to their super-duper slow-ass ship travel speeds... then SW has the advantage of communications.

In terms of sheer numbers, the Galactic Empire in Star Wars controls an entire galaxy's worth of resources and is the undisputed power with only a band of ragtag rebels as its significant resistance. In 40k, the IoM has to contend with half-a-dozen adversaries waging a never-ending stalemate war over huge portions of the galaxy (which the IoM's ships take MONTHS to travel). In terms of territory and resource access, Star Wars has the advantage.

Star Wars can manufacture new ships very easily and very quickly. Look at the whole plethora of spanking-new warships in the Prequels. In a span of a handful of years, from Attack of the Clones to Revenge of the Sith, the Republic ended up with a whole crapload of new Star Destroyer vessels. In 40k, the bulk of the Imperium's fleet is, like, centuries-old hulks. Star Wars has the advantage in this, again.

So...

The most common conclusion is that 40k wins, hands down.

You were saying?

[Vendetta]

Is it that time again?

In terms of sheer numbers, the Galactic Empire in Star Wars controls an entire galaxy's worth of resources and is the undisputed power with only a band of ragtag rebels as its significant resistance. In 40k, the IoM has to contend with half-a-dozen adversaries waging a never-ending stalemate war over huge portions of the galaxy (which the IoM's ships take MONTHS to travel). In terms of territory and resource access, Star Wars has the advantage.

On the other hand, the IoM is far more militarised than even the Galactic Empire was, precisely because it is at constant war with anyone who looks at it's pint.

Really though, in an all out war between the two powers, the Galactic Empire's strategic mobility would be the deciding factor. Whilst the IoM almost certainly have parity in space warfare and advantage in land warfare, their strategic mobility is too unreliable and slow. The GE gets to determine the location and terms of engagement, so they're going to win.

[Raxmei]

What boards have you been on? The ones that I frequent normally conclude that the Imperium would lose to the Galactic Empire or even (and I disagree with this one) the United Federation of Planets. I've even seen one that thought modern Earth could hold off an Imperial invasion indefinitely. And these were Warhammer fan sites.

Short answer: The Imperium of Man can put up a meaningful resistance to a Galactic Empire invasion, which is a lot better than many other universes can do, but it is ultimately doomed to fail due to strategic and logistic concerns. Star Wars hyperdrive is almost enough to win this for the Empire all by itself given anywhere near comparable firepower.

I also don't know if the IoM has weapons systems capable of blowing entire planets to pieces with one shot.

The Imperium of Man has never built such a thing, but Chaos built one twice. And yet they still fail.

[Shroom Man 777]

It's going to be their Vietshroom. While Star Wars ground forces get bogged down and killfucked by 40k ground forces, the ludicrous speed of SW space forces and their respectable firepower will basically allow them to outmaneuver and fuck over IoM/40k space assets. SW will dictate the terms of space combat, like how the Americans had air superiority throughout the Vietnam War and won most of the conventional engagements. If anything, it's the Imperium/40k that's going to be stuck with planetary guerilla warfare while SW rains death from above on them.

@ Vendetta. The level of militarization of the Imperium/40k will also highly depend on stuff like interstellar logistics. If their supply vessels takes weeks/months/years to reach the battlefield, and are several orders of magnitude slower than SW equivalents, then the Imperium/40k are going to be very fucked. With superior speed for not only ground forces deployment, but also logistical support, and actual-factual galactic range, SW can open up all sorts of fronts and achieve complete strategic operational advantage over the 40k forces.

Yes, while 40k forces are on par in firepower levels, on an operational strategic level they're so far behind that it's not even funny. It's like how the armies and air force of Iraq and other crappy countries have guns and bombs that blow up with the same yield as American guns and bombs, but the deciding factor won't be mere firepower or militarization or the number of conscripts and hardware - but other capabilites that act as force multipliers. If SW can move way faster than 40k, and if SW can wage war in more fronts, and if the 40k forces are way slower and can cover only limited ground... then 40k's fucked.

While 40k's sending badass Baneblades and shitloads of SPESS MARINES on a handful of planets in a small sector, SW's going to be deploying crappy AT-ATs and shitty Stormtroopers in a whole fuckload of planets THROUGHOUT the galaxy. 40k will be perpetually playing a game of catchup, and against SW hyperdrive, this is a game they can't hope to win.

And unlike other folks, the 40k guys can't blame this on SPACE MCNAMARA for once.

*posts Republic Era graph made by Grand Admiral Curtis LeMay*

[Teleros]

*Points to the SEARCH function*

There've been loads of SW v 40k discussions here in the past, Bloody Chaplain. As noted above, 40k can't really hope to win unless it can steal hyperdrives for all its warships, transports and such. Although the two factions are fairly equal in terms of firepower and all that stuff, SW is just too fast.

[NecronLord]

Shroomy, you're generally correct, but some corrections:

Whereas Imperium vessels performing Exterminatus either need massive numbers, or virus bombs (that need to react with living organisms) or rare cyclonic torpedoes.

No they don't. Fuck, planets have been broken up by IoM fleet bombardment on occasion. Exterminatus is preffered because it requires one volley to hit the planet. And you can drive-by with a Cobra destroyer and do it in seconds.

I also don't know if the IoM has weapons systems capable of blowing entire planets to pieces with one shot.

Not that they can make. There are archeotech examples.

Does the IoM employ planetary shielding, as in shields that cover the ENTIRE planet? I haven't heard of it.

No. Though the necrons do, and have given that technology to an Ad Mech world once (as a trick so that they'd destroy themselves).

If 40k communications is similar to their super-duper slow-ass ship travel speeds...

Much faster, though still not as fast as holonet.

[Serafina]

What boards have you been on? The ones that I frequent normally conclude that the Imperium would lose to the Galactic Empire or even (and I disagree with this one) the United Federation of Planets. I've even seen one that thought modern Earth could hold off an Imperial invasion indefinitely. And these were Warhammer fan sites.

Wait, what?
Gosh, those people are stupid.

IoM and GE are actually amazingly close with regards to firepower.
The reason the GE would actually win a war are it's superior ability to bring it's full weight into the battle due to better production capability and strategic mobility.
However, IoM-spaceships actually seem to be superior, given that a Cobra-destroyer is already as long as a Star Destroyer and has about equal firepower and that cruisers are about 5km long with about equal firepower/mass.
Of course, te IoM would have superior numbers most of the time, and their ships enjoy higher tactical mobility as well.

The GE would also have to rely on orbital bombardement with little opportunities to capture important GE-worlds without it, since the IoM-forces are a much more well-rounded and larger force on the ground. However, firepower is again pretty close (a lasgun is about equal to a blaster).

So, short answer:
-Space goes to the GE due to numbers
-Ground goes to the IoM due to numbers&capability
-Special abilities (psykers/force) go mostly to the IoM but don't really matter on the grand scale
-The GE would win a war due to space superiority

[Night_stalker]

Yeah, in all honesty the GE would probably win in space, but would be screwed on the ground.

[Kuroji]

Screwed on the ground? The only time they're really going to have to worry about ground combat is when there's something there that prevents any of the orbiting ISDs from using their weaponry. Otherwise... my tactic would be to have the stormtroopers have a token presence in strategic areas, and any concentrations of enemy troops get fired on.

Orbital insertions and drop pods can't happen when you have space superiority, and somehow I don't think you can use a 4+ invulnerable save against turbolasers striking your position. Honestly though, I figure stormtroopers might be equivalent to imperial guard with carapace armor, which puts them a hair above the guard but still below the marines. But this doesn't mean that they can't use superior tactics to get the edge where they need to.

Oh, and the ability to retreat rather than get slaughtered to a man, if things go pear-shaped.

Honestly, though, the stormtroopers are going to get TIE cover, and that itself might make a huge difference too.

[Rama]

Any solid figures regarding IOM fleet strength?

[Bob the Gunslinger]

Connor has a thread on BFG analysis and fleet strength somewhere. Check all the links in the Grand 40k Sticky thread. However, he has said something about revising his numbers in light of new evidence.

[Kuroji]

Nope, but they've got ships that are absurdly large at least. The GE's fleet is going to likely be able to disable the IoM's warships fairly quickly, but destroying them will take longer because of their sheer mass.

All considered, the GE probably has the edge because they've got disproportionately more firepower for the same amount of space. It only gets sticky when you run across anomalous things (read: plot devices) from the Dark Age of Technology... which unfortunately is largely going to be clustered around Sol. Other than that, however, they've pretty much got the victory in space wrapped up anyways. And once you've got the victory in space, you can wait anything else out as long as you feel like waiting.

[Black Admiral]

Any solid figures regarding IOM fleet strength?

Connor's analysis thread on the subject.

We can also make estimates based on forces committed to specific actions, like the 2,216 warships committed to the relief of Rynn's World (including eight battleships, a number of Astartes battlebarges & nothing lighter than a Dauntless-class light cruiser)

[Kuroji]

In the end, this comes down to the same thing as every other war that in existence that has been waged. Assuming, that is, that both sides' weapons are fully effective against the other. Otherwise it'll simply be a bloodbath, one way or the other.

1. Intelligence. How much does the GE know about the IoM, and vice versa, if anything? Do they know each others' ships? Worlds? Societies? Is there a possibility of either side carrying out intelligence operations or infiltrating before or during the fight?
2. Weaponry and armor. That is, which side's got more dakka, and which side can take more hits while staying viable in combat.
3. Logistics. How are the GE and IoM going to be fighting between the two galaxies, exactly? If we take the usual 'wormhole/portal' explanation, is there going to be more than one choke point? Who can resupply and replace losses more quickly?

Hate to say it, but ignoring intelligence and assuming parity between weapon effectiveness, or even at a disadvantage, the GE's got better logistics (and far more importantly, reliable, safe and fast FTL travel), not to mention a likely higher ability to replace their losses due to knowing how to just press the damn button instead of spending five minutes praying first before depressing the freshly-anointed holy crimson knob.

[Shroom Man 777]

Shroomy, you're generally correct, but some corrections:

Whereas Imperium vessels performing Exterminatus either need massive numbers, or virus bombs (that need to react with living organisms) or rare cyclonic torpedoes.

No they don't. Fuck, planets have been broken up by IoM fleet bombardment on occasion. Exterminatus is preffered because it requires one volley to hit the planet. And you can drive-by with a Cobra destroyer and do it in seconds.

Hang on. Then, what exactly DOES an Exterminatus entail? If not fleet bombardment... A one-volley planetary killfuck by what means? The use of crazy weapons like virus bombs and cyclonics? Non brute-force methods? Or can a single Cobra destroyer brute force an entire planet's murdershitting?

I also don't know if the IoM has weapons systems capable of blowing entire planets to pieces with one shot.

Not that they can make. There are archeotech examples.

Does the IoM employ planetary shielding, as in shields that cover the ENTIRE planet? I haven't heard of it.

No. Though the necrons do, and have given that technology to an Ad Mech world once (as a trick so that they'd destroy themselves).

Those dicks.

If 40k communications is similar to their super-duper slow-ass ship travel speeds...

Much faster, though still not as fast as holonet.

[/quote]

Is it done by pure astropathics? I seem to recall mention of couriers but I don't remember perfectly...

In the end, this comes down to the same thing as every other war that in existence that has been waged. Assuming, that is, that both sides' weapons are fully effective against the other. Otherwise it'll simply be a bloodbath, one way or the other.

1. Intelligence. How much does the GE know about the IoM, and vice versa, if anything? Do they know each others' ships? Worlds? Societies? Is there a possibility of either side carrying out intelligence operations or infiltrating before or during the fight?

Hate to say it, but ignoring intelligence and assuming parity between weapon effectiveness, or even at a disadvantage, the GE's got better logistics (and far more importantly, reliable, safe and fast FTL travel), not to mention a likely higher ability to replace their losses due to knowing how to just press the damn button instead of spending five minutes praying first before depressing the freshly-anointed holy crimson knob.

What kind of intelligence? Whereas 40k MIGHT have the advanage in terms of personal intelligence, with lots of psykers and all sorts of gnarly Inquisition operatives with polymorphics and Callidus shape-shifters and shit... Star Wars does have an advantage in terms of STRATEGIC intelligence. Why? How? Well, Star Wars can spam craploads of recon droids like the ones in Hoth, sending them throughout the galaxy in a matter of hours - precisely because of hyperdrive. These droids can then take pretty pictures of all sorts of IoM/40k planets, military force dispositions, or listen in on non-astropathic communications while hyper-spacing around at superfast speeds and relaying information back to the SW/Empire guys via hyperwave... much faster than anything the Imperium can muster.

It's like how the Soviets in real life had a massive spy network in the USA. The KGB was the HUEGEST spy agency in the world. However, the USA had the advantage in spy satellites and spy planes - with SR-71 Blackbirds and Corona spy satellites going all over Soviet territory and taking pretty pictures while the Soviets could do nothing (except shoot down a couple of U-2 spy planes).

Oh, by the way. 40k will be hard pressed to match the speeds of SW recon droids, since they don't have hyperdrives. But it is still within the possiblity of SW to counteract 40k intelligence assets by using Force-sensitives and gnarly technologies to root out 40k spies and the like.

[Srelex]

No they don't. Fuck, planets have been broken up by IoM fleet bombardment on occasion. Exterminatus is preffered because it requires one volley to hit the planet. And you can drive-by with a Cobra destroyer and do it in seconds.

What? With a fleet or battleship maybe, but where have bombardments been described as taking seconds?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

No they don't. Fuck, planets have been broken up by IoM fleet bombardment on occasion. Exterminatus is preffered because it requires one volley to hit the planet. And you can drive-by with a Cobra destroyer and do it in seconds.

What? With a fleet or battleship maybe, but where have bombardments been described as taking seconds?

Such things have happened before. DUring the Horus Heresy, a Word Bearer's fleet obliterated a number of planets in the Calth system.

I believe the Imperium of MAn has special warheads that penetrate into the planet's core and detonate with such power as to rip the planet apart. In the most recent time, I remember there was such an incident in ... the Blood Ravens novels?

Screwed on the ground? The only time they're really going to have to worry about ground combat is when there's something there that prevents any of the orbiting ISDs from using their weaponry. Otherwise... my tactic would be to have the stormtroopers have a token presence in strategic areas, and any concentrations of enemy troops get fired on.

Orbital insertions and drop pods can't happen when you have space superiority, and somehow I don't think you can use a 4+ invulnerable save against turbolasers striking your position. Honestly though, I figure stormtroopers might be equivalent to imperial guard with carapace armor, which puts them a hair above the guard but still below the marines. But this doesn't mean that they can't use superior tactics to get the edge where they need to.

Oh, and the ability to retreat rather than get slaughtered to a man, if things go pear-shaped.

Honestly, though, the stormtroopers are going to get TIE cover, and that itself might make a huge difference too.

Seriously, I think orbital bombardment is overrated. What do you plan to do? Bombard every single planet and rule over a mountain of corpses?

In any case, it's not like the Imperium has no air assets, and the Imperial Guard come well equipped with tanks, superheavy tanks, and maybe a small detachment of a Titan legion.

Stormtrooper armor can't stop a blaster bolt. At least not since the first iteration of the Clone Trooper armor.

[Srelex]

Seriously, I think orbital bombardment is overrated. What do you plan to do? Bombard every single planet and rule over a mountain of corpses?

If the objective is to remove the opposing side as a threat, that could well be viable. If it's to occupy or seize resources...

[Black Admiral]

No they don't. Fuck, planets have been broken up by IoM fleet bombardment on occasion. Exterminatus is preffered because it requires one volley to hit the planet. And you can drive-by with a Cobra destroyer and do it in seconds.

What? With a fleet or battleship maybe, but where have bombardments been described as taking seconds?

In IIRC the 5th Ed. Tyranids Codex, a squadron of Cobra-class destroyers did a drive-by Cyclonic strike on a 'nid held world (although as I don't have the relevant codex I couldn't verify that).

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Seriously, I think orbital bombardment is overrated. What do you plan to do? Bombard every single planet and rule over a mountain of corpses?

If the objective is to remove the opposing side as a threat, that could well be viable. If it's to occupy or seize resources...

Again, do you plan to kill trillions just to achieve this goal? The Imperium has plenty of hive worlds.

And by the way, Khorne will be really proud. Why, you might even spawn something fantastic beyond our wildest imaginations...

[Simon_Jester]

There are posters who might grace you with a decent answer or a link to discussions of this.
But not me.
Let me sum this up for you.
GE would win.
You are an idiot.
This is the kindest, shortest response you are entitled to.

Actually, you're being a lot harsher than you should.

Imperium of Man versus Galactic Empire is at least a fight, as opposed to being a totally one-sided slaughter (like, say, Trek vs. Wars). The firepower levels on both sides are at least within shouting distance, and the Imperium has an enormous advantage in that the sheer scale of their military is much more mobilized than that of the Empire: "there is only war" and all that. There's also a major problem for the Empire if it invades the Imperium, in that they are utterly unprepared to deal with the Warp. Unless we grant the people of the Galaxy Far Far Away magic immunity from the Warp, they're going to be in trouble.

Now, the Empire still has that utterly enormous advantage in strategic mobility, possible advantages in ship power-to-weight ratios, and a (by and large) saner government. But while there's very little risk of a 40k power (except perhaps the Necrons) beating the Empire on its home turf, I'm not sure it would be feasible for the Empire to beat a major 40k power on its home turf.

Short answer: The Imperium of Man can put up a meaningful resistance to a Galactic Empire invasion, which is a lot better than many other universes can do, but it is ultimately doomed to fail due to strategic and logistic concerns. Star Wars hyperdrive is almost enough to win this for the Empire all by itself given anywhere near comparable firepower.

The catch is that the Imperium is very decentralized. To "win" in any real sense, the Empire will have to occupy the Imperium or breach the space-based defenses of Terra and kill the Emperor and the High Lords, effectively neutering the Imperium. Both are difficult.

Occupying the Imperium is difficult because of the sheer size of the manpower commitment, because it places large numbers of Empire troops and ships in prolonged contact with the forces of Chaos, and because it draws the Empire into costly conflicts with the Imperium's other enemies: the orks, the Tyranids and the Necrons. The Necrons in particular are a problem, because they are quite capable of matching anything Star Wars can throw at them- moon-sized constructions, teraton-range antiship weapons, and hopping across the galaxy in hours are all par for the course for them.

Taking out Terra is probably easier, simply because it's a point target and you can just kill it. But the catch is that it's an incredibly well defended point target, with massive fortifications dating back to the Imperium's Golden Dark Age of Technology... back when they were a lot more capable than they are now, and a lot more competently led. If any planet in the Imperium has defenses that can handle the Galactic Empire's ships and weapons, it's going to be Terra.

*Points to the SEARCH function*

There've been loads of SW v 40k discussions here in the past, Bloody Chaplain. As noted above, 40k can't really hope to win unless it can steal hyperdrives for all its warships, transports and such. Although the two factions are fairly equal in terms of firepower and all that stuff, SW is just too fast.

Meh. I think ECR got it fairly right: 40k can't win on the Empire's home turf, but the Empire would be enormously hard pressed to win on the Imperium's home turf. To the point where I'd be inclined to call it a stalemate.

Oh, and the ability to retreat rather than get slaughtered to a man, if things go pear-shaped.

Honestly, though, the stormtroopers are going to get TIE cover, and that itself might make a huge difference too.

TIE close air support will have to get into range of 40k AA weaponry and may be in trouble. Basically, the Empire wins whenever they have a Star Destroyer in orbit and can punch ten-mile craters out of the landscape without imperiling their ability to win the objective. Everywhere else things get tricky.

If they're trying to fight a war of conquest, though, they'll find themselves frequently forced to destroy the planet in order to control it, because the Imperium is GOOD at dying to the last man and leaving the enemy with a pyrrhic victory. I mean, that's what the Imperium does: they die hard and slowly in the face of overwhelming odds. So Shroomy's comparison to Vietnam is apt, I think.

Hang on. Then, what exactly DOES an Exterminatus entail? If not fleet bombardment... A one-volley planetary killfuck by what means? The use of crazy weapons like virus bombs and cyclonics? Non brute-force methods? Or can a single Cobra destroyer brute force an entire planet's murdershitting?

Exterminatus means "killfuck the planet by any means." If you happen to have enough energy weapons handy, simply blasting the crap out of the planet until the whole thing is covered in craters full of lava is a good option. If you don't, or if you're too impatient to wait for the firepower you have on hand to do the job (say, because an enemy battlegroup might come in and crush you while you're busy crushing the planet), you can just drop some immensely destructive bombs that will wreck the planet just as thoroughly.

The Imperium is not fussy about the means by which it commits mundicide.

[Kuroji]

Hang on. Then, what exactly DOES an Exterminatus entail? If not fleet bombardment... A one-volley planetary killfuck by what means? The use of crazy weapons like virus bombs and cyclonics? Non brute-force methods? Or can a single Cobra destroyer brute force an entire planet's murdershitting?

They've got a number of different methods depending how they want to finish things, from just shooting it with general onboard weapons for that good old fashioned BDZ feel, to torpedoes which'll destroy everything organic on the planet without exception, to torpedoes that are specifically designed as planet crackers. Technically, anything that removes life from the planet counts as Exterminatus. It's just how much of a hurry they're in and whether they want to make an example particularly strongly, I think. But I don't think they've got anything quite on par with the Death Star even with Dark Age tech.

What kind of intelligence? Whereas 40k MIGHT have the advanage in terms of personal intelligence, with lots of psykers and all sorts of gnarly Inquisition operatives with polymorphics and Callidus shape-shifters and shit... Star Wars does have an advantage in terms of STRATEGIC intelligence. Why? How? Well, Star Wars can spam craploads of recon droids like the ones in Hoth, sending them throughout the galaxy in a matter of hours - precisely because of hyperdrive. These droids can then take pretty pictures of all sorts of IoM/40k planets, military force dispositions, or listen in on non-astropathic communications while hyper-spacing around at superfast speeds and relaying information back to the SW/Empire guys via hyperwave... much faster than anything the Imperium can muster.

It's like how the Soviets in real life had a massive spy network in the USA. The KGB was the HUEGEST spy agency in the world. However, the USA had the advantage in spy satellites and spy planes - with SR-71 Blackbirds and Corona spy satellites going all over Soviet territory and taking pretty pictures while the Soviets could do nothing (except shoot down a couple of U-2 spy planes).

Oh, by the way. 40k will be hard pressed to match the speeds of SW recon droids, since they don't have hyperdrives. But it is still within the possiblity of SW to counteract 40k intelligence assets by using Force-sensitives and gnarly technologies to root out 40k spies and the like.

When it comes down to it, the GE's probably got a serious edge in intel. I was totally disregarding any intel, putting the GE and IoM in a jar and shaking it to see what would happen. Even if targeted assassinations would be carried out, that wouldn't have enough of an effect on the GE's war machine to stop it, or even slow it down significantly, unless you can avoid getting force-choked by Vader when you sneak onto the Executor's bridge somehow. And his loss won't do very much harm anyways, the only one that would is Palpatine. I think he's smart enough to stay on Coruscant, the Death Star or somewhere else remote just in case.

If the objective is to remove the opposing side as a threat, that could well be viable. If it's to occupy or seize resources...

Tactical, not strategic, bombardment. That is, shoot the enemy positions on the planet, don't start melting cities for shits and giggles.

And by the way, Khorne will be really proud. Why, you might even spawn something fantastic beyond our wildest imaginations...

Khorne only benefits if you're doing it for the sake of doing it. He doesn't benefit when, for example, the Guard is hitting Tyranids to keep them from overrunning a planet.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Khorne only benefits if you're doing it for the sake of doing it. He doesn't benefit when, for example, the Guard is hitting Tyranids to keep them from overrunning a planet.

And obliterating entire populations for the sake of it doesn't?

ANd mind you, some hive cities have void shields capable of resisting bombardment. The Imperial Guard is more likely to hide underneath that.