Starcraft vs Halo

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Guardsman Bass
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Guardsman Bass » 2010-07-29 03:28am

I agree. We get a good look at one in the opening cinematic* for Brood War, and there's no way battlecruisers are that long unless that battlecruiser was sitting much farther up in the sky than it looks like (and it wasn't).

* Look at about 1:38 into the video. I couldn't get a screen shot to work.
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Xon » 2010-07-29 05:45am

Halo has point defense which can actually hit the broadside of a barn. The few times we see it in SC2 cinematics, it's like WW2 flak-batteries with worse hit rates.
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Srelex » 2010-07-29 10:40am

Is there anything else tech-orientated in SC2 that could make an impact here?
Last edited by Srelex on 2010-07-29 10:40am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Balrog » 2010-07-29 10:40am

Guardsman Bass wrote:I agree. We get a good look at one in the opening cinematic* for Brood War, and there's no way battlecruisers are that long unless that battlecruiser was sitting much farther up in the sky than it looks like (and it wasn't).

* Look at about 1:38 into the video. I couldn't get a screen shot to work.
And considering the view from the observation deck, where they're able to make out details on the ground, it definitely isn't sitting that far up in the sky.

Though I have yet to get the new game, so maybe there might be something in the manual or story that sheds some new light on tech and other stuff.
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Xenophon13 » 2010-07-29 12:46pm

Couple pics I found on a different forum regarding battlecruiser size. Don't know if they're canon or whatever, but I like the 750 m estimate
Image
(sorry its upside down)
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Iosef Cross » 2010-07-30 02:27pm

Xenophon13 wrote:Couple pics I found on a different forum regarding battlecruiser size. Don't know if they're canon or whatever, but I like the 750 m estimate
I cannot read shit in these pictures.

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by SAMAS » 2010-07-30 03:18pm

Don't bother. Not only is it too small, it's upside down.
Image
Not an armored Jigglypuff

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Lord Relvenous » 2010-08-01 04:18am

And what the hell is with the multiple carriers which all have the same detail? And also, there's nothing to support that 750m estimate in those pictures They're just scale shots, nothing more. Just because you like it doesn't mean it's true.
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Teleros » 2010-08-01 08:27am

Probably not much use, but the battlecruiser Hephaestus from the Starcraft #0 comic that came with the SC2 Collector's Edition (same design as the regular Terran battlecruisers BTW) had a regular crew of 236. It was overrun from inside by zerg, crashed into Tarsonis' atmosphere and was destroyed as a result.

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Sapper007 » 2010-08-02 08:55am

I obviously dont assume that battle cruisers are actually that long... however, that is what was stated in a blizzard authorized book... that being said... Point of view and aspect ratio's are damn near impossible to comprehend within a game...
also i find the comment about halo point defense comical... since Master chief was able to float an armed antimatter bomb into a carrier... but i guess we could chalk that up to plot shielding....

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Sapper007 » 2010-08-02 10:40am

Also Terran infantry weapons are OoM ahead of Haloverse.

First we must ignore the fact that in the opening scene in Starcraft 2 that the very large Tychus Finnely power armored hand is almost twice the size of his regular hand (assume average 3.5 inch hand) giving us a 7 inch wide hand that is a smidge shorter than the magazine...

8 mm Remington Magnum (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 5vs338.png [the bullet on the left]
-200 Grams Partition type round consists of mostly lead surrounded by a copper sheath (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=266641)
- Lead density is 11.34 g/cm3
- U-238 is 1.684 times than lead.
-Hypersonic Velocities are as such
MACH
5.0-10.0
MPH
3,840-7,680
6,150-12,300
Meters/second
1,710-3415
ASSUMPTIONS
-First I will figure using a solid lead bullet from the Remington 8mm (it isn’t but it makes the calculations easier and on the lower end of the possibilities) the bullet weight is 200 grain

______________________________________
So the low end for the200 gram Remington 8mm at hypersonic velocities is.
1.8948e+4 (18,948) joules
And the high end is
7.8700e+4 (78,700) joules
This is Fact… a Remington 8mm bullet at mach 10 releases as much or more energy than most Aircraft 20mm cannons. In summary of these facts this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 5vs338.png [the bullet on the left]
At hypersonic velocities is stronger than this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... arison.JPG

On to the DU 8mm calculation-
-we will figure as if the the DU round used is solid(most are around 99.25 or 97.5 DU rest titanium) giving it a weight of 336 Grain.
3.1832e+4 (31832)Joules at mach 5
1.2696e+5(126,960)Joules at mach 10
Now we are hitting harder per bullet than one of the largest bullets on earth today (gau-8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKRGDCR28g0
now onto the match
FACTS
The marines use the c-14 I am figuring with variant two since it has canon sources
(I.E.)
Benjamin, Paul and Dave Shramek (w), Sevilla, Hector (p, i). "Weapon of War." In StarCraft: Frontline: Volume 1 (paperback binding), pp. 94–139. Tokyopop, August 1, 2008. ISBN 978-1427-80721-2.
-It has at least 200 round magazine. (from opening cutscene in brood war)
-It can fire at least 30 rounds per second.
In comparison the MA5C in halo fires the 7.62 NATO giving it aprox 3500 joules...
a full magazine of from the MA5C roughly equals 1 MACH 10 DU shot from the Terran marine rifle...

so knowing this... we have seen almost all infantry type units in the various starcraft books survive or tank the terran marine rifle rounds...
also master chief shielding has been downed by a magazine of MA5C rounds...
OoM above Haloverse

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Xenophon13 » 2010-08-02 05:20pm

Lord Relvenous wrote:And what the hell is with the multiple carriers which all have the same detail? And also, there's nothing to support that 750m estimate in those pictures They're just scale shots, nothing more. Just because you like it doesn't mean it's true.
I didn't say i thought it was true. I just found these add thought they might be of help. I honestly don't know why the first one is upside down.

Also, a funny post on a naruto forum (go figure) about SC vs Wh 40k. is what happens if you use gameplay as canon. :shock:

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=539721
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Acidburns » 2010-08-02 06:58pm

During one of the SC2 single player missions they use a large fixed laser to melt through the doors of a Xel'Naga temple. During the mission one of the characters says that the laser has a power rating of 125GW (iirc). Would this help?
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Imperial528 » 2010-08-02 08:57pm

Xenophon13 wrote:
Lord Relvenous wrote:And what the hell is with the multiple carriers which all have the same detail? And also, there's nothing to support that 750m estimate in those pictures They're just scale shots, nothing more. Just because you like it doesn't mean it's true.
I didn't say i thought it was true. I just found these add thought they might be of help. I honestly don't know why the first one is upside down.

Also, a funny post on a naruto forum (go figure) about SC vs Wh 40k. is what happens if you use gameplay as canon. :shock:

http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=539721
Well, the flaw in his (hilarious) game play based argument is that he assumes that all Terran units are armored. Civilians are wearing vests and are comparable in height to marines on the game display, and how marine visors are visible in the unit portraits.

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Terralthra » 2010-08-02 09:11pm

According to that guy's calcs, all Terran marines wear armor that is several kilometers wide.

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Lord Relvenous » 2010-08-03 04:41am

Xenophon13 wrote:
Lord Relvenous wrote:And what the hell is with the multiple carriers which all have the same detail? And also, there's nothing to support that 750m estimate in those pictures They're just scale shots, nothing more. Just because you like it doesn't mean it's true.
I didn't say i thought it was true. I just found these add thought they might be of help. I honestly don't know why the first one is upside down.
And why should they help if there is no data backing them up? Look, I could go photoshop the same pictures but have the Battlecruiser be 5x as large. It would hold just as much merit.
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Xon » 2010-08-03 09:55am

Acidburns wrote:During one of the SC2 single player missions they use a large fixed laser to melt through the doors of a Xel'Naga temple. During the mission one of the characters says that the laser has a power rating of 125GW (iirc). Would this help?
It's 4GW, and till annihilate almost every unit and structure in a matter of seconds.
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Xenophon13 » 2010-08-03 01:02pm

should it be considered SC canon that all three factions seem to be able to build bases and armies from scratch?
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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Samuel » 2010-08-03 01:18pm

Xenophon13 wrote:should it be considered SC canon that all three factions seem to be able to build bases and armies from scratch?
No. The Protoss obviously can warp in buildings, the zerg can grow them with drones they bring and the Terrans probably drop in or use prefabricated bases, however, none of this is "from scratch" and I think we are justified in ignoring the gathering of resources to build units that is part of the game.

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Imperial528 » 2010-08-03 07:58pm

Well, if official concept art counts for anything, there are several ones showing terran bases around mineral and gas locations.

However, many terran buildings (attachments, bunkers, turrets, depos, etc.) cannot move, so those obviously must be built on-site. Since it seems a hassle to move structures not designed to survive space flight.

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Iosef Cross » 2010-08-03 08:17pm

The original Starcraft game manual stated that command centers were the centers of every (most?) human colony. So these bases are to a large measure a mix up of civilian and military installations.

Also, it would be absurd to consider canon that every side can build entire armies from scratch in every mission, since that would mean that anybody with a SCV could build their own empire given some time. Gameplay and canon nearly always aren't compatible.

In the original Total Annihilation they tried to give an explanation for the construction of military bases in hours: nanotechnology.

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Imperial528 » 2010-08-04 02:31am

Well, due to the lack of a day/night cycle in StarCraft, we really don't know how long the battles take unless it is one of those timed ones.

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Sapper007 » 2010-08-04 09:34am

while the exact industrial and population growth capabilities are hard to quantify we do have some ball park idea's of just how fast they do these things. We do know that in the time America was colonized to the present, the Terrans have colonized the koprulu sector to the point where zerg raids on outlying colonies in starcraft 2 cutscenes cost "billions" of terran lives, and spurred no major reactions...
all from a population 40,000...

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Re: Starcraft vs Halo

Post by Sapper007 » 2010-08-05 03:56pm

Depending the actual size of the battle cruiser...
the Yamato Cannon is capable of 3.3 Gigatons to 1 Petaton per second.

OP as it seems thats the calculations...
Images are large so...
Estimates on width of the beam are here...
http://factpile.wikispaces.com/file/vie ... atoWth.png

Estimates on single armour vaporization are here:
http://factpile.wikispaces.com/file/vie ... toDmg1.png

Estimates on tonnage/second are here:
http://factpile.wikispaces.com/file/vie ... DA2of2.png

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