SW-Force vs. 40K-Warp from a storytelling POV

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Serafina
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SW-Force vs. 40K-Warp from a storytelling POV

Post by Serafina » 2009-08-19 07:05pm

I am aware that this has been covered pretty well. However, i want to propose a system to handel both the force and the warp for crossover reasons.

What i want to do is making pys powers and force powers able to affect each other by giving them similar mechanics.

How do i want to do this?

The basic assumption is that force users actually drain power from the warp - they are using psy powers.

Of course, there are numerous observed differneces between using the force and a psychic power.
Thus, we need an explanation how both things are different. Also, we need an explanation why the SW-galaxy warp is calm (since it does not mindrape anyone).

I am doing this by a known mechanism: Midichlorians.

We know that all SW species have some connections to the force and midichlorians in their cells.
I now assume that these midichlorians "digest" the psychic disturbances of emotions (which have an impact on the warp) and release exess energy into it - but with most/all of the disturbances removed. Basically, Midichlorinas are an additional layer between the warp and a person, dampening all effects.
This prevents the SW-warp from being easily corrupted, and protecs most people from its enviromental effects.

This is contradictional to a known mechanism of midichlorians: Force users have a lot of them.
Thus, we need to alter/add to that explanation:
Midichlorians act as a "connection" between the warp and a person. This connection has a built-in filter of limited capacity (the mentioned "digestion") the effects of the warp on a person and vice versa will be damneped.

But: The more midichlorians a person has, the more power it can draw from the warp.
Imagine a lot of tubes with in-built filters. The more tubes you have, the more water can flow through. Each tube has a built-in filter of limited capacity/effect - the filtration effect is the same, regardless of the number of tubes.

Now we have an explanation for a calm warp in the SW-galaxy (we assume it is in the same universe as the 40K-galaxy) which also explains force-using (actually, i like the "midichlorians digest emotions"-thing a lot).
I also predics various other effects:
-All SW-species have some limited protection from the warp and therefore from psychic powers. We know that the force can affect unliving matter easier than living matter.
-Despite the filtration, huge emotional footprints (espacially from those with high "bandwith") should still create disturbances. We have seen those in SW - places that belong to the dark/light side of the force.
-There should be some kind of "deamons" in the SW-galaxy. They are propably weaker and less evil than the 40K-ones.
We already know that the force has a will of its own - which could be explained by deamons/chaos gods. Also, we have seen various force spirits.
-Despite the filtration, the warp should be able to influence and mutate people. Do i need to say "dark side"?

As an important node: I treat midichlorinas as unique to the SW-galaxy.

Obviously, there is absolutely no need for this explanation other than for cross-over reasons. You could treat them as completly unrelated phenomena, but thats just boring and robs you of a lot of possiblities.

My question is: are there any serious flaws in this "theory"? Did i overlook possible effects? How would you change it?
Or do you have an alternate explanation for a common mechanism alltogether?
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Re: SW-Force vs. 40K-Warp from a storytelling POV

Post by Brother-Captain Gaius » 2009-08-19 07:17pm

Is all that exposition necessary, though? Especially if you're telling a story. One of the strengths of 40k (and Star Wars, to an extent) is that it throws out a lot of technical nonsense and simply leaves things ambiguous or intentionally unexplained. Why not use the same practice? The more and more work you put into trying to make a bulletproof system, the more leaks it will just end up springing when it's scrutinized.

Just have the Warp and the Force interact in a straightforward, mutually consistent manner and be done with it. No need to trip over yourself doing it.
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Re: SW-Force vs. 40K-Warp from a storytelling POV

Post by white_rabbit » 2009-08-19 07:21pm

You could always go for a slightly tweaked version of the Orks.

They generate their own psychic field, and Orkish psykers use that energy, rather than drawing upon the Warp, it makes them less vulnerable to the particular negative issues associated with warp interaction in 40k, and more resistent to the psykers of other races.

Obviously there are tweaks, given that Force users heads don't usually explode if the next door neighbours are having a part.

It might mesh with the descriptions of the Force a little better, or not. *shrug* Personally I'd just have it all interact in a fashion that makes your desired plot work, and try to keep it fairly consistent.
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Re: SW-Force vs. 40K-Warp from a storytelling POV

Post by Serafina » 2009-08-19 07:26pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Is all that exposition necessary, though? Especially if you're telling a story. One of the strengths of 40k (and Star Wars, to an extent) is that it throws out a lot of technical nonsense and simply leaves things ambiguous or intentionally unexplained. Why not use the same practice? The more and more work you put into trying to make a bulletproof system, the more leaks it will just end up springing when it's scrutinized.

Just have the Warp and the Force interact in a straightforward, mutually consistent manner and be done with it. No need to trip over yourself doing it.
I do not want to give it out as expostion in the story - i just want to give myself a theory to work with.

And who knows? Perhaps this theory will actually give me some interesting ideas for the story.
In fact, making SW-species slightly resistant to is an idea i really like (a psyker will still kill them, but it helps dealing with chaos corruption).
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"Destiny and fate are for those too weak to forge their own futures. Where we are 'supposed' to be is irrelevent." - Sir Nitram
"The world owes you nothing but painful lessons" - CaptainChewbacca
"The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." - Wilhelm Stekel
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Re: SW-Force vs. 40K-Warp from a storytelling POV

Post by Simon_Jester » 2009-08-19 10:09pm

Eleventh Century Remnant did a good job with a 40k-SW crossover here. His interpretation is that the Force and the Warp are the same thing, but that some relevant physical* constant is an order of magnitude or two higher in 40k, vastly increasing the power of the Warp relative to that of the Star Wars Force. This causes a corresponding increase its influence on intelligent beings, and the degree to which it interacts with technology. The stronger Force/Warp in 40k allows things like daemons to survive and thrive where they would not normally be able to do so in the less nourishing environment of the Star Wars galaxy.

*metaphysical?
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Re: SW-Force vs. 40K-Warp from a storytelling POV

Post by Agent Sorchus » 2009-08-20 04:56pm

First "flaw" with your theory: Midiclorians. You are now reliant on one of the most controversial aspects of star wars lore for star wars fans. I believe the last time they were seriously brought up in the SW forum the most sane rationalization was that you could have the force without having midiclorians, but they are the biological footprint of force use. In other words they do not cause the force, but are caused by the force. This eliminates the exceptions that were raised about having something that could be able to be injected to increase a Force users strength. However I do like the filtering of emotions effect that you attribute to the Midiclorians.

My other critique is more generally making the Force and warp equal. Basically we know that the force is powered only by living things, right? And the warp can be powered by lots of things, notable death and souls; right? This is the substantial difference between the two, life and death. That is what makes the force more equal to the Ork Wagh than to the Warp. Further more I would theorize that the Force and the Warp are actually opposites.

There even is an antiforce entity in star wars who greatly resembles a daemon from 40k. Look up Waru on wookiepedia to learn more. However he comes from one of the most berated SW books around so use at your own risk.

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