Have we seen the last of Battlestar galactica?

[FireNexus]

nBSG is a cautionary tale about starting out with a half-completed idea and then making it up as you go along. At this point, I wish it would just die so I can remember season 1-2 fondly.

[Nephtys]

If only the show was canceled immediately after the New Caprica arc, then it'd go down in sci-fi fandom like Firefly. Loved by lots, and yearned for.

Now I can't even watch the first two seasons without tasting bitterness. I blame angels.

[Batman]

Firefly was actually damned good SciFi. nBSG was a grimdark 'because grimdark is cool' space soap that tried to cash in on oBSG.
And I DID try to give the series the benefit of the doubt. I watched the mini and is was 'meh'. I watches s1 and it was 'meh'. I watches s2 and it was 'you gotta be fucking kidding me'. It-barely-worked as a grimdark version of oBSG, but when they introduced the religion bullshit it went straight down the toilet.

[Uraniun235]

nBSG is a cautionary tale about starting out with a half-completed idea and then making it up as you go along. At this point, I wish it would just die so I can remember season 1-2 fondly.

I don't think it's quite that bad. I think the series was doing okay right up until the point on New Caprica where the Cylons said "yeah we just want to live in harmony with humans, by the way you're all still stuck on this frozen dirthole"; it was at that moment when playing it by ear and just doing whatever the fuck seemed like a good idea caught up to them, because if that's what the Cylons really wanted, they could have just packed everyone up and shipped them back to that city on Caprica they had their robot slaves fixing back up and making habitable again. Remember that? All those smiling skinjobs walking around in the rebuilt Caprica City? Whatever happened to that? Oh that's right, they got distracted by some other shiny idea and wandered away.

The real cautionary tale isn't about not having the whole arc planned out - not every space opera serial needs to be quite as thoroughly preconsidered as Babylon 5 - but in just indulging yourself and doing whatever the fuck seems like a cool idea at the time, regardless of whatever other threads you may have left dangling. Well, and also not spiraling into one big "a wizard god did it, lol" ending, but the series was drifting way before we got to those last episodes of season 4.

I would be interested to get my hands on, say, the writer's bibles for the series; the differences from season to season might be enlightening as to how the producers' perception of their setting changed from season to season.

[Mayabird]

Season 3 started out with the special effects budget completely blown from building the New Caprica set, plus executive meddling started up when it had been basically nonexistent for the first two seasons. Also apparently there were issues with the actor's union about having the cast and crew be so far from Vancouver (in an old quarry in the middle of nowhere of British Columbia, IIRC). That really didn't help at all. They may very well have had better plans for the season, or at least the first half (I thought Exodus Part 1 and 2 would've been great for mid-season instead of the very beginning) but then they had to finish everything fast and then make up a lot of filler crap for the rest of the season, and there were some serious stinkers in the crap.

Or maybe I'm being too nice.

[Skylon]

The ending to BSG is worse than Matrix Revolutions.

Yikes.

I at least enjoyed a good chunk of Galactica's finale.

Matrix Revolutions um...there was a fight with mech armor that looked cool until I realized there was no protection for the operators and um...yeah....that's about all I liked of that for the thirty seconds until logic kicked in.

As far as Galactica's future...I'm interested in "The Plan" but really don't see where any future movies could be made, short of something about the first Cylon War. "Caprica" I have not touched, and could care less about.

[Uraniun235]

Season 3 started out with the special effects budget completely blown from building the New Caprica set, plus executive meddling started up when it had been basically nonexistent for the first two seasons.

What sort of executive meddling was going on?

[JLTucker]

I have only heard about executive meddling from Wikipedia. The original source said it was mentioned in RDM's podcast for the two-part season 3 finale. I listened to both parts and I do not recall it being said. So until I see another source, I'm calling bullshit.

Edit: If you are a fan of the series' score, do pick up the fourth season score. It's a two-disc album where the second disc is music only from the series finale. The album has such gems like "Elegy". Also, the complete series box set is overpriced and, what should not come as a shock, the disc holders are fucking cardboard. Don't waste your money on it.

[Netko]

Basically, from what I remember from the interviews, the studio wanted the show to be more episodic since they feared viewer drop-off and no new viewers picking the show up do to the tight arc integration - so you got season 3 with a bunch of self-contained stories that were weaker then the previous material. At the end of season 3 the studio relented, after seeing the effects of their decision on the show, however at that point RDM and company decided to go fully into the religious bullshit.

[PREDATOR490]

After recently getting and watching all of NBSG in a long stretch I can honestly say my reaction was one of 'What the fuck is going on ?' through the entire series.
From the very moment Baltar started seeing that bitch preaching about god etc. my opinion of this series remained entirely low. The effects are great, some of the drama was pretty well done but the entire series was overburdened with this religious thread about some cycle etc.

Realistically, I was left with the impression the 'Angel's' manipulating Baltar and Caprica Six were Cylons from the beginning and the shift to being 'angels' still seems off if the universe is in a 'cycle' unless they were always part of the cycle to begin with. So realistically Nbsg is one giant contrived loop of events caused in no small part by these 'angels' for reasons completely unknown for a being that apparantly dosent like being called god.

I think BSG should be left alone at this rate unless they want to retcon the ending to something more sensible than the garabage supplied.

[Anguirus]

As much as I agree with most of you that the ending of the series is not what I would have written, I find this does not impact my enjoyment of earlier episodes, nor does it affect my conviction that season 4 is in fact the best-written, acted, and scored season.

One of the central premises of the show turns out to be that there is a mysterious force directing events for a mysterious purpose. This is hinted at blatantly in "33," and WAVED IN OUR FACES in "Hand of God." So it's not new, and if it was intolerable to you in a fictional setting then you should have tuned out then. It's also obviously that this force is not omnipotent...because then there's no reason for any of the events of the show to happen. Different factions interpret the force differently (Lords vs. God).

So, if that makes it fantasy instead of sci-fi, oh well. It's like its source material, in other words. And frankly, I could care less when I rewatch stuff like the last scene between Gaeta and Baltar, the Battle of New Caprica, Ellen's death, the first, second, and third season finales, or just about any scene with Tigh.

[Skylon]

Basically, from what I remember from the interviews, the studio wanted the show to be more episodic since they feared viewer drop-off and no new viewers picking the show up do to the tight arc integration - so you got season 3 with a bunch of self-contained stories that were weaker then the previous material. At the end of season 3 the studio relented, after seeing the effects of their decision on the show, however at that point RDM and company decided to go fully into the religious bullshit.

I've yet to see these interviews as well, and I'd honestly call BS on them. RDM stated in at least one commentary from a season 1 or 2 episode that with BSG he wanted to explore the idea of The Fleet as a society. Episodes like "The Woman King" (IMHO the worst episode of the series) and "Dirty Hands" do just that.

I still maintain for me the period post New Caprica until season 3's finale was the biggest series of bumps in BSG's road. With the over-drawn Lee-Dualla-Kara-Sam love quadrangle and the cop-out that was the attempt to use a biological weapon on the Cylons. Season 4 picked things back up again.

[Uraniun235]

One of the central premises of the show turns out to be that there is a mysterious force directing events for a mysterious purpose. This is hinted at blatantly in "33," and WAVED IN OUR FACES in "Hand of God." So it's not new, and if it was intolerable to you in a fictional setting then you should have tuned out then. It's also obviously that this force is not omnipotent...because then there's no reason for any of the events of the show to happen. Different factions interpret the force differently (Lords vs. God).

So, if that makes it fantasy instead of sci-fi, oh well.

That's not really the reason people dislike it. Battlestar Livejournal has been very much a space opera series from start to finish, albeit one that typically uses fewer trappings than average, but anyone who would actually care whether it falls into one category or another doesn't matter.

The reason people dislike it is because all of that "mysterious force" business boiled down to "a wizard god did it, lol". It means that the writers have free license to just do whatever the fuck they think seems cool, and if there are any holes at the end they can just say (or leave for fans to say) "a wizard god did it". You don't think that cheapens anything, at all?

And there's no payoff for the mystery, either! We spend a chunk of the series listening to Baltar and "Head-Six" (who seems to think that "tens of thousands of Cylons" dying is an unforgivable sin, for whatever reason) prattle on about "one true god loves all" and how he has a Role to play and etc., but where's the pay-off? The only payoff we get is that "oh yeah there's totally a wizard, he talks to Head-Six and Head-Baltar"... but never any insight as to why that wizard does what he does. I'll admit, that irks me because I hated those scenes anyway, so I'm grumpy that I didn't even get anything worthwhile for sitting through those at the end.

(There's also the part of me that can't help but cynically wonder if the 'spiritual people' seen in the series (like the fortune teller) are either an indulgent reflection on the writer's own preferences/beliefs, or an attempt to grab viewers by appealing to those hippie-nerds that also believe in that crap... but that's a minor quibble.)

It's like if Sherlock Holmes investigated this huge mysterious scheme which doesn't seem to make sense for an entire movie, finds only a few clues, and then at the end Moriarty just shows up and says "yeah, I did all that" and then vanishes in a puff of smoke runs away. Sherlock goes home and smokes up with Watson. The End. Oh, yes, there'd be all sorts of fun character moments with Sherlock and Watson and the Chief Inspector and the Sassy Orphan... but how did those puppies get shaved, and why? "moriarty did it, lol". Why was Big Ben sabotaged into running three minutes fast? "moriarty did it, lol". Do you see how this could be maddening, despite the tenderly acted moments of Sherlock Holmes shooting up?

And frankly, I could care less when I rewatch stuff like the last scene between Gaeta and Baltar, the Battle of New Caprica, Ellen's death, the first, second, and third season finales, or just about any scene with Tigh.

Nice escape clause. "Well I disagree, but even the best-crafted response doesn't matter, because at the end I can still jerk off to Adama and Tigh's tender embrace." Hey, I like jerking off to Kirk and Spock too, but I can admit that a lot of Star Trek is pretty severely flawed.

Also some of us were in for the plot more than the characters, so in those cases I hope you can see how the series might have proven unsatisfying.

[starfury]

Also some of us were in for the plot more than the characters, so in those cases I hope you can see how the series might have proven unsatisfying.

Well as stated by predator, the plot was messy even in season1 and season2, with the various character arcs always taking precedence, even then I felt the plot would take a backseat to character development good or poor. That was never it's strong point even then compared to more densely plotted shows like bab5. The lack of a strong cohereont planning seem to simply made it far too easy to devolve into the mess that everybody complained about.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Matrix Revolutions um...there was a fight with mech armor that looked cool until I realized there was no protection for the operators and um...yeah....that's about all I liked of that for the thirty seconds until logic kicked in.

The DBZ battle IRL was cool.

The Matrix Revolutions answered no questions, brought up a dozen new ones that were unanswered, had huge plotholes, logic errors, and cringe-worthy performances. But at least it didn't resort to an age-old sci-fi cliche as an ending.

[Mayabird]

Having done another little search for info, yeah, the supposedly executive meddling was probably crap.

But I would disagree about the mysticism being too much in season 1. They were actually pretty ambiguous about that stuff at first. In "Hand of God," yeah, Roslin is having hallucinations of a dozen snakes which she takes for being prophesy about the ten and two serpents, but the attack on the Cylon Tyllium refinery is lead by a dozen Vipers which Baltar and Head-Six take for being that prophesy as well, completely independent of Roslin's. It could all just be them reading a bunch of vague lines and reading too much into it (and at that time we didn't know what Head-Six was; she might've just been Baltar's conscience giving him hallucinations). One line that was sadly cut was Billy (remember Billy?) calling her out for making decisions based on "drug-induced visions." At that point, it seemed that there could very well be rational explanations for everything and not religious nonsense. It's just in hindsight that we see where they would actually be going with all of that.

[Stofsk]

(remember Billy?)

I do. I liked Billy, but didn't he want out of the show?

[Skylon]

(remember Billy?)

I do. I liked Billy, but didn't he want out of the show?

He wanted more time to work on other projects. The producers initially indulged the actor in early season 2, before killing him off and replacing him.

Billy he only character whose every decision I agreed with.

Sam's in second, but I wouldn't be crazy enough to get hitched to Starbuck.

[Stofsk]

Yeah, Sam and Billy, two nice guys who definitely finished last.

[Nephtys]

The problem was that in early BSG, all the Mysticism could well be coincidence, or confirmation bias. You had no idea. It was in the end, still the characters making hard calls and doing dangerous and often incorrect things.

Then, the show outright tells you 'BTW, Angels did this.'

[Battlehymn Republic]

There's a fanfic where the Galactica's just been wandering for years and finally finds human civilization (they also never found Kobol). In it Roslin died of cancer, an unbalanced Elosha becomes President, but once they realize that she's crazy they replace her with Billy. It owned.

[DrMckay]

Any idea where that one is? I'm always looking for good Galactica fanfic.

Got the Season 4 Soundtrack today. Very reasonably priced, and really frakkin' cool, it has an extra CD with just music from the finale.

Say what you will about what the show turned into, but the music was fantastic throughout.

[Vertigo1]

First they'd get aggressively drunk on the alcohol they abandoned (can you imagine anything more absurd?) and rant and rave at each other for a scene or two, perhaps even beating the shit out of each other.

Don't forget EJO vomiting on himself, for the pathos.

And then they build a ring, and go boxing again. The end.