Tau technology

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Tau technology

Post by dragon » 2009-02-23 01:20pm

Been reading the first Cain omnibus as was curious about the level of technology for the Tau. Cain talks about the battlesuits that the Tau were showing off as if they were nothing special, yet ther Imperials were comparing them to Dreadnaughts. He also talks about their low light systems as if they were something special and especaily the highly efficient hand hand plasma weapons. So what other kind of goodies do the Tau have?

Edit - off topic a bit but why in the part with the ice caves were the Necrons wearing the skin off the slain?
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Peptuck » 2009-02-23 01:26pm

Cain talks about the battlesuits that the Tau were showing off as if they were nothing special, yet ther Imperials were comparing them to Dreadnaughts.
I thought it was blindingly obvious from that scene that Cain was impressed by them yet he was trying to not show it to deflate the Tau.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by dragon » 2009-02-23 01:33pm

Yeah Cain was impressed but it was the Tau that made the comment that they were just battle suits.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Ryan Thunder » 2009-02-23 02:08pm

dragon wrote:Been reading the first Cain omnibus as was curious about the level of technology for the Tau. Cain talks about the battlesuits that the Tau were showing off as if they were nothing special, yet ther Imperials were comparing them to Dreadnaughts. He also talks about their low light systems as if they were something special and especaily the highly efficient hand hand plasma weapons. So what other kind of goodies do the Tau have?
Flying tanks, ubiquitous AIs, seeker missiles that can find things around corners (part of #2), railguns that rape tanks and shred infantry, and "heavy" plasma miniguns that apparently won't even faze a Space Marine in spite of being able to completely blast his armour to the point of unrecognizability (yeah, the Wank is strong with Marines.)
Edit - off topic a bit but why in the part with the ice caves were the Necrons wearing the skin off the slain?
Because they're probably Flayed Ones. Some psychological warfare thing, probably.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by andrewgpaul » 2009-02-23 02:16pm

The Necron Flayed Ones do that, IIRC, as a form of camouflage at longer range, and as a terror tactic up close. Possibly, they're just the Necron loonies who like that sort of thing.

Have you looked at GW's website to see what info's up there about Tau? at the least, it'll show you what kind of military equipment they commonly use.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Leman-russ » 2009-02-23 02:42pm

to the tau battlesuits are just a regular component of the army to
any human who looks at them they are of similar height to
dreadnoughts and similar shape so they assume its something similar.
As for there night vision equipment it supposed to be beyond the
equivalent imperial tech(not hard in some area's) so it leaves an impression.
There small arms are based on plasma tech which is almost unheard of
the imperials have very few plasma weapons and there as likely to kill the user as
the enemy.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Raxmei » 2009-02-23 04:12pm

The Tau take a lot of technology that to the Imperium would be rare or special issue and make them general issue. Their ordinary soldiers go to battle with carapace armor and a plasma-based rifle, the sort of gear that the Imperium reserves for stormtroopers or similarly elite units. Further up the scale you see much wider use of counter-grav than is used in Imperial armies, AI free of the restrictions of the Imperium's mini-Butlerian jihad, smart munitions, a very dangerous but also very large antitank gun, and stuff that's like power armor but different issued to ordinary veterans (as opposed to superhuman angels of death).

With some exceptions such as grav tanks and AI the Imperium has gear that is equivalent or superior to most Tau technology, but can't afford to issue it to everyone. The Tau manage to equip their entire force with the best they can produce. The only infantry weaponry they have beyond pulse weapons is the experimental rail rifle, and at the higher end the Tau still struggle to find good counters to space marines at any cost. At Taros the Tau outfought most of the Imperial Guard, but had trouble with stormtroopers and were beaten by space marines a couple times.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Darmalus » 2009-02-23 04:15pm

As I understand it, tau technology is top-notch for what they can produce, which is slightly above Imperial Guard standard. However, this comes at a cost. All this gear is maintenace heavy, for the most part cannot be feild repaired and must be shipped back to a factory. This isn't a problem yet, because the Tau are in a tightly packed cluster of inhabitable worlds, so their travel times are very short. The problems comes with the fact that the rest of the galaxy is very spaced out, "just-in-time" ammo deliveries generally aren't if you need to send the cargo ship almost 2-3 weeks in advance from the closest supply depot/factory. By comparison, a Leman Russ tank can run off of wood and be repaired by a blacksmith if he knows what he is doing, and you can recharge a las-gun ammo clip by throwing it into a bonfire for a few hours.

As I understand it, Tau spaceships and boarding tactics are a joke, and crumble if one of the elder species warships so much as glare at them.

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Re: Tau technology

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2009-02-23 04:24pm

One should keep in mind that the Tau have a well equipped force that operates near its sources of supply and the Imperial Guard is often far from its sources of supply. The firepower of a Tau pulse rifle is superior to that of a Guardsman's laser, as long as the Tau has ammo packs. The power cell for the lasgun can be recharged by chucking them into a fire. Ruggedness and reliability of equipment are central to the way the Guard fights. If the IG suffers a supply disaster they can still fight on with a high degree of effectiveness. The Tau, on the other hand, are boned if that happens and their mobile warfare doctrine runs counter to having well defended supply points.

Also, Tau gear functions better in the board game than if fluff. An Astartes bolter beats a pulse rifle hands down. Also, Tau starships don't compare favorably to the Imperial Navy.

And I see Darmalus agrees with me.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Ryan Thunder » 2009-02-23 04:29pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:Also, Tau gear functions better in the board game than if fluff.
Yes, much to my annoyance. 'Course, the table-top has SOD problems... (SEE: Assault rules, "Defensive" weapons rules, ramming rules, armour save vs. armour penetration rules, etc.)
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Leman-russ » 2009-02-23 05:11pm

Imperial Overlord wrote: Also, Tau gear functions better in the board game than if fluff. An Astartes bolter beats a pulse rifle hands down. Also, Tau starships don't compare favorably to the Imperial Navy.
The disparity between table top and the fluff is at its worst when your looking at marines
its not so much tau gear works better as the marines have to be toned down to be balanced
in comparison to every one else if you want to look up the movie marines stats to see what
a true to fluff marine is capable of on the table top.

As for comparing the Kor'vatta (tau fleet) and the imperial navy or any other race's fleet for that
matter the major problem is the tau cant give or take a decent broadside if they get you where
they want you in the forward arc of there star ships unless your a battleship your pretty fucked
as that's where tau star ship focus there firepower and can cripple or destroy enemy cruisers in
short order and in most case's have greater range than all but a enemy battleship guns.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2009-02-23 05:18pm

Leman-russ wrote:
Imperial Overlord wrote: Also, Tau gear functions better in the board game than if fluff. An Astartes bolter beats a pulse rifle hands down. Also, Tau starships don't compare favorably to the Imperial Navy.
The disparity between table top and the fluff is at its worst when your looking at marines
its not so much tau gear works better as the marines have to be toned down to be balanced
in comparison to every one else if you want to look up the movie marines stats to see what
a true to fluff marine is capable of on the table top.
Eldar get boned worse than Marines.
As for comparing the Kor'vatta (tau fleet) and the imperial navy or any other race's fleet for that
matter the major problem is the tau cant give or take a decent broadside if they get you where
they want you in the forward arc of there star ships unless your a battleship your pretty fucked
as that's where tau star ship focus there firepower and can cripple or destroy enemy cruisers in
short order and in most case's have greater range than all but a enemy battleship guns.
Going prow to prow with an Imperial Cruiser is begging for a world of hurt (armour rating 6 and torpedoes standard). It's worth noting that the Tau don't have anything that comparable to grand cruiser or better. Their best ships are cruiser equivalents.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Leman-russ » 2009-02-23 05:50pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:
Eldar get boned worse than Marines.
To be honest the only army i think that are true to there fluff are the orks
Going prow to prow with an Imperial Cruiser is begging for a world of hurt (armour rating 6 and torpedoes standard). It's worth noting that the Tau don't have anything that comparable to grand cruiser or better. Their best ships are cruiser equivalents.
There's only one the Lar'shi(hero) class cruiser is a match imperial navy cruisers
and battle cruisers has 6+ prow with the same firepower torpedoes comparable
railgun batteries to a luner class broadside guns and twice the lance firepower
and flight decks to match a dictator class a very thorny prospect for any IN cruiser.

As for gran cruiser i think they have got a decent one in the forge world list
but i don't IA:v3 so i cant check it's stats.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by NecronLord » 2009-02-23 06:45pm

dragon wrote:Edit - off topic a bit but why in the part with the ice caves were the Necrons wearing the skin off the slain?
Psiops. Flayed ones teleport into enemy positions, stuff blades through the enemy's necks, skin them, and drape their skin and muscle over themselves.

Is it sensible? Not really; but some of the C'tan really like their victims terrified.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by NecronLord » 2009-02-23 06:50pm

Leman-russ wrote:if you want to look up the movie marines stats to see what
a true to fluff marine is capable of on the table top.
:banghead:

I wish people would stop repeating this idiocy.

MMR includes rules for "stunt doubles" it's meant to represent 'what if this was a typical action movie as produced by Hollywood.' Movie Marines Rules was never meant to be "true-to-fluff."
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Peptuck » 2009-02-23 07:15pm

To be honest the only army i think that are true to there fluff are the orks
Okay, this is annoying the hell out of me every time I read your posts - which is saying something, as your posts are already a horrid assault on the English language.

It is not "there," it is "their." "There" is a location, while "their" is possessive. Get it right.

And capitalize your I's. That's annoying the fuck out of me too. This isn't Youtube, and you've got no excuse for rage-enducing basic grammar and capitalization mistakes.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2009-02-23 07:16pm

Well first there's the little detail that the Hero either has good guns or a flight deck and railguns, not both. The big gun configuration can dish out hurt, but against multiple void shields and 6+ armour, its not going to do much of that unless it has help or gets lucky. The Hero class has the advantage, but it's not terribly decisive. The carrier version won't be able to generate much in the way of damage except with its torps in head to head fight unless it has help. This pretty much the sweet spot for the Tau and against Imperials it's not very decisive. It's just a precursor to horrible broadside rape or a brief interval between being nova cannoned and horrible broadside rape. Tau escorts are a little on the slow and unmaneuverable side, which doesn't fill me with love for them.

If they're getting a big ship good for them. They need one badly.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Leman-russ » 2009-02-23 08:21pm

NecronLord wrote: :banghead:

I wish people would stop repeating this idiocy.

MMR includes rules for "stunt doubles" it's meant to represent 'what if this was a typical action movie as produced by Hollywood.' Movie Marines Rules was never meant to be "true-to-fluff."
Sorry that was a mistake on my part I meant the "realistic marines" that was put out by GW UK's chapter approved a few years ago not the movie marines by GW US. If you want I can PM you there stats.
Imperial Overlord wrote:Well first there's the little detail that the Hero either has good guns or a flight deck and railguns, not both. The big gun configuration can dish out hurt, but against multiple void shields and 6+ armour, its not going to do much of that unless it has help or gets lucky. The Hero class has the advantage, but it's not terribly decisive. The carrier version won't be able to generate much in the way of damage except with its torps in head to head fight unless it has help. This pretty much the sweet spot for the Tau and against Imperials it's not very decisive. It's just a precursor to horrible broadside rape or a brief interval between being nova cannoned and horrible broadside rape. Tau escorts are a little on the slow and unmaneuverable side, which doesn't fill me with love for them.

If they're getting a big ship good for them. They need one badly.
Going from memory the two varients of the hero class are
one with
strength 6 torpedos on the prow
strength 4 bow rail guns with arcs port, prow and starboard
strength 2 ion cannons (lance) with arc port and prow
strength 2 ion cannons (lance) with arc starboard and prow
and 2 launch bays with 2 attack craft wings per bay for a total of four

and the other with
strength 6 torpedos on the prow
strength 4 bow rail guns with arcs port, prow and starboard
strength 4 rail guns with arc port and prow
strength 4 rail guns with arc starboard and prow
and 2 launch bays with 2 attack craft wings per bay for a total of four

So either of them in the forward arc can deliver substantial firepower and attack craft but if the enemy survives to broadside its fairly screwed, sounds like any other ship in gothic.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Ryan Thunder » 2009-02-23 08:23pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:Going prow to prow with an Imperial Cruiser is begging for a world of hurt (armour rating 6 and torpedoes standard). It's worth noting that the Tau don't have anything that comparable to grand cruiser or better. Their best ships are cruiser equivalents.
The Tau have a new fleet, most of it has armour to match that (though its a deflector shield, so you can disable it with a critical hit), and they have a new 10-hit carrier. Plus the old Demiurg ships, which are generally beasts unto themselves.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Imperial Overlord » 2009-02-23 08:48pm

Leman-russ wrote:
So either of them in the forward arc can deliver substantial firepower and attack craft but if the enemy survives to broadside its fairly screwed, sounds like any other ship in gothic.
Substantial firepower in the forward arc against the Imperium isn't enough. Armour 6+ and 2 VSGs mean they can take a hell of a lot of pounding and give it back in return. Tau ships aren't on the fast and maneuverable side and only the nice ones have the nifty forward shield . . .which only need one good torpedo roll to go bye-bye. Their escorts are beefy, but slow and clumsy. A lot of Tau designs are on the lighter side when it comes to hull points, which means even a few good hits hurts a lot.

Against the Imperium, they can't dish out enough to prevent them from getting to broadside range and with Imperial torps and nova cannons, the Tau could end up in far worse shape from the nose to nose part of the engagement. The Tau don't maneuver that well and are on the low end for speed, which means once they start losing the battle of maneuver they're in deep shit, but managing to go prow to prow or prow to broadside doesn't give the Tau an equally potent advantage.

Tau ships are simply not that good.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor » 2009-02-24 04:53am

Do we know a lot about whether the Tau defences on the Kuarava moon? Are they truly that "impregnatable"?
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Ford Prefect » 2009-02-24 05:55am

Raxmei wrote:Their ordinary soldiers go to battle with carapace armor and a plasma-based rifle, the sort of gear that the Imperium reserves for stormtroopers or similarly elite units.
I might point out that there are likely more Storm Troopers in the Imperium than the Tau, as an Empire, have people. Which isn't significantly difficult, as the Tau Empire is an insignificant speck of a space going polity in the 40k universe.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Vendetta » 2009-02-24 05:57am

dragon wrote:Edit - off topic a bit but why in the part with the ice caves were the Necrons wearing the skin off the slain?
For added GRIMDARK.

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Re: Tau technology

Post by Teleros » 2009-02-24 08:41am

dragon wrote:Been reading the first Cain omnibus as was curious about the level of technology for the Tau. Cain talks about the battlesuits that the Tau were showing off as if they were nothing special, yet ther Imperials were comparing them to Dreadnaughts.
In terms of size the tabletop battlesuits are a fair bit smaller than Space Marine dreadnoughts, but it had been some time since Cain had been hanging out with any space marines so even if he saw a dreadnought up-close then he might've forgotten quite how much bigger they were by the time he went to Gravalax.
dragon wrote:He also talks about their low light systems as if they were something special and especaily the highly efficient hand hand plasma weapons. So what other kind of goodies do the Tau have?
The plasma weapons AFAIK were meant to be the Tau pulse carbines / rifles, and just means that the Tau don't overcharge their plasma guns like the Imperium does. As for their blacksun technology we've seen Imperial Guard units with similar in the books, so perhaps he was just not used to them (or surprised by the novelty or even the fact that their technosorcery worked without the Omnissiah's blessing). The others have covered most of the other toys the Tau have.
dragon wrote:Edit - off topic a bit but why in the part with the ice caves were the Necrons wearing the skin off the slain?
To scare the hell of people :) . It's what Necron Flayed Ones do (melee infiltrators on the tabletop).
Their ordinary soldiers go to battle with carapace armor and a plasma-based rifle
Both of which generally suck compared to their Imperial equivalents (well, pulse rifles do well against lasguns, but not plasma guns), at least according to Connor's work.
Movie Marines Rules was never meant to be "true-to-fluff."
Although I think they're probably true-er to fluff than the standard tabletop rules. DoW 2 is probably the most fluff-accurate depiction of Space Marines I've seen.
Sorry that was a mistake on my part I meant the "realistic marines" that was put out by GW UK's chapter approved a few years ago not the movie marines by GW US. If you want I can PM you there stats.
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