[40K] Catachan Barking Toads

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[40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Vultur » 2009-02-14 07:59pm

In the story associated with the novel "Death World" in the Imperial Guard Omnibus novel collection, a Catachan Barking Toad explosion clears an area of jungle several hundred meters in diameter, and it's stated that nothing would ever grow there again [although a Catachan Devil survives the explosion]. If that's true, why hasn't Catachan been reduced to a lifeless wasteland by now (unless the barking toads are an evolutionarily very recent development?)

Also, why does a "poisonous" cloud melt everything into sludge? Are there really any poisons with that kind of effect? It seems unlikely...
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Pulp Hero » 2009-02-14 08:01pm

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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Junghalli » 2009-02-14 08:13pm

Vultur wrote:If that's true, why hasn't Catachan been reduced to a lifeless wasteland by now (unless the barking toads are an evolutionarily very recent development?)
The native animals know better than to mess with them?

Also, stuff probably would eventually grow back, it's just the poison is incredibly toxic and takes a very long time to disperse. If nothing else, the poisoned soil will eventually washed away by erosion. Such a process might take centuries or millenia though.

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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Aaron » 2009-02-14 08:32pm

Vultur wrote:In the story associated with the novel "Death World" in the Imperial Guard Omnibus novel collection, a Catachan Barking Toad explosion clears an area of jungle several hundred meters in diameter, and it's stated that nothing would ever grow there again [although a Catachan Devil survives the explosion]. If that's true, why hasn't Catachan been reduced to a lifeless wasteland by now (unless the barking toads are an evolutionarily very recent development?)

Also, why does a "poisonous" cloud melt everything into sludge? Are there really any poisons with that kind of effect? It seems unlikely...
Poison isn't really the best term. It's more like a poison/acid/nerve gas and yes that Devil survived the explosion but it was also a full grown and very old Devil, a younger and smaller one likely wouldn't have made it. As it was the one in the novel was severely fucked up by the explosion and it's probably the only reason the Catachan in the story made it out.
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Venator » 2009-02-15 12:19am

Wait, I read Death World only a few weeks ago, and I totally missed that passage. Whereabouts in the book was it :? ?

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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Aaron » 2009-02-15 09:35am

Venator wrote:Wait, I read Death World only a few weeks ago, and I totally missed that passage. Whereabouts in the book was it :? ?
That's because it's in The Imperial Guard Omnibus: Volume One short story Better The Devil. The Barking Toad makes it's appearance on pg 277 of the omnibus
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by 18-Till-I-Die » 2009-02-15 10:57am

One has to remember that as per canon (last i heard) the bulk of Catachan lifeforms, that aren't human that is, were created by accident by the Tyranids. Some of their "scouts" landed there and bred out of control, or at least that's what i've read.

So really, we're not looking at evolution, more like stray chemical weapons shells left behind after a war and going off by accident. No doubt such equivalents amongst the Nids are used as some kind of strategic weapon in lieu of traditional nukes. In fact...if memory serves they do have some kind of "acid rain spore" thingy.
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Aaron » 2009-02-15 11:05am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:One has to remember that as per canon (last i heard) the bulk of Catachan lifeforms, that aren't human that is, were created by accident by the Tyranids. Some of their "scouts" landed there and bred out of control, or at least that's what i've read.

So really, we're not looking at evolution, more like stray chemical weapons shells left behind after a war and going off by accident. No doubt such equivalents amongst the Nids are used as some kind of strategic weapon in lieu of traditional nukes. In fact...if memory serves they do have some kind of "acid rain spore" thingy.
Well they use Spore Mines as an artillery, one of there payloads is acid. Where did you read about the 'Nids landing on Catachan, I've heard the same thing about Fenris and the Kraken but I can't find a source.
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Balrog » 2009-02-15 11:40am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:One has to remember that as per canon (last i heard) the bulk of Catachan lifeforms, that aren't human that is, were created by accident by the Tyranids. Some of their "scouts" landed there and bred out of control, or at least that's what i've read.

So really, we're not looking at evolution, more like stray chemical weapons shells left behind after a war and going off by accident. No doubt such equivalents amongst the Nids are used as some kind of strategic weapon in lieu of traditional nukes. In fact...if memory serves they do have some kind of "acid rain spore" thingy.
I'd never heard that before, but it would kinda fit within Tyranid Spore capabilities in regards to their initial invasion of a planet:
White Dwarf 306 wrote: Other spores introduced during the attack phase contain viral and poisonous organisms that choke the atmosphere and incapacitate or kill many millions of defenders before they even get a chance to fire a weapon against the invading warrior organisms. Others are nothing more than huge, biological cyst-bombs, which burst open above population centers and shower an area many hundreds of meters across with acidic digestive bile. Thus, resistance is subdued, and biological matter begins to break down for future ingestion.
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Venator » 2009-02-15 04:53pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
Venator wrote:Wait, I read Death World only a few weeks ago, and I totally missed that passage. Whereabouts in the book was it :? ?
That's because it's in The Imperial Guard Omnibus: Volume One short story Better The Devil. The Barking Toad makes it's appearance on pg 277 of the omnibus
Ah, thanks. I've got the Omnibus, but I haven't gotten around to reading the attached short story, just the main title.

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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Raxmei » 2009-02-15 05:36pm

The fluff about Tyranid origin of Catachan life forms is in the latest Tyranid codex and specifically references the catachan devil. Of course for that to be true the nids would have had to have had scouts near the center of the galaxy millennia before the Tyrannic wars supposedly started.
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Aaron » 2009-02-15 06:18pm

Raxmei wrote:The fluff about Tyranid origin of Catachan life forms is in the latest Tyranid codex and specifically references the catachan devil. Of course for that to be true the nids would have had to have had scouts near the center of the galaxy millennia before the Tyrannic wars supposedly started.
Thank you. So it seems there is a point to purchasing the Codexes, even if I don't play the game.
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by 18-Till-I-Die » 2009-02-15 06:21pm

Which would actually explain a lot. I mean, it does seem a bit odd that the 'nids seemed to have a good idea where and how to strike and make it effective yes? Or at least it seemed that way to me. I mean one of their first hits was right smack in the middle of a Space Marine zone...perhaps a failed decapitation strike?

But think about it, if the Devils are Tyranid offshoots who knows what ELSE is. We know that some Orkish creatures are Nid offshoots too, like those little Squigs for example. And they're like kith and kin with the Orks, who were around for a long, long time before humans...maybe as far back as the War in Heaven if memory serves (wasn't it said the Old Ones made them to be soldiers or some such?) Which would mean the Tyranids have been looking into this galaxy for quite a while, and given their extragalactic origin and the relatively slow speed of Warp travel they'd have plenty of lead-time.
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Aaron » 2009-02-15 06:39pm

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Which would actually explain a lot. I mean, it does seem a bit odd that the 'nids seemed to have a good idea where and how to strike and make it effective yes? Or at least it seemed that way to me. I mean one of their first hits was right smack in the middle of a Space Marine zone...perhaps a failed decapitation strike?

But think about it, if the Devils are Tyranid offshoots who knows what ELSE is. We know that some Orkish creatures are Nid offshoots too, like those little Squigs for example. And they're like kith and kin with the Orks, who were around for a long, long time before humans...maybe as far back as the War in Heaven if memory serves (wasn't it said the Old Ones made them to be soldiers or some such?) Which would mean the Tyranids have been looking into this galaxy for quite a while, and given their extragalactic origin and the relatively slow speed of Warp travel they'd have plenty of lead-time.
I had just assumed there were Hive Fleets previous to the ones the Imperium has encountered, humanity was cut off from the Warp for centuries after all and the Eldar on Orks have been in space a lot longer than man. Ravenor Rogue suggests that some knew about them before the Imperium, when his team visits that underwater psyker nest (sorry can't remember the name) for example.
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Venator » 2009-02-15 07:38pm

I'm not sure where Squiggs lie; I think that they were originally an isolated offshoot of Rippers that became integrated with Ork biology, but I've heard that more recent fluff has that retconned.

When you think about it, blending into a Death World where life is an killing-machine monster freakshow is one thing - being so ingrained to have similar genetics and reproductive systems is another entirely.

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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Connor MacLeod » 2009-02-15 09:15pm

IIRC from Battlefleet gothic, the Tyranids sent out scouting fleets as well as the regular Hive fleets, with the purpose of locating and/or preparing the ground for such invasions. Genestealers probably count as one such "scouting" force, there are bound to be others.

Given the nature of Many Death Worlds (IE not much better than the Tyranids as it is - many Death Worlds IIRC are the results of Terraforming Gone Horribly Wrong) and the random nature of any such scouting fleet, it may be that some of those scouting efforts fail and are either killed off or the scouts integrate into the ecosystem in some manner. I also vaguely recall recall there are examples of lesser Tyranid forms, IE Gaunts, either evolving independently of the Hivemind or possessing internal organs such as a digestive tract - something that would be useful in scouting purposes. These are all from short stories, mind, but it makes sense. After all, just because its TYRANID does not automatically mean that it wins out against any natural planet.

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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2009-02-15 10:51pm

hey, there's so many different Death worlds, besides there's probly something that would eat nids for breakfast, purhaps a sentient planetary biosystem (Alpha Centari Game)?
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Venator » 2009-02-15 11:23pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:hey, there's so many different Death worlds, besides there's probly something that would eat nids for breakfast, purhaps a sentient planetary biosystem (Alpha Centari Game)?
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Seeing a Tyranid invasion of Rorgar III would actually be very interesting; the Tyranids would be in a super-speed evolutionary arms race with the planet itself.

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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2009-02-15 11:52pm

There are Sentient planetminds in 40k?
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Venator » 2009-02-15 11:56pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:There are Sentient planetminds in 40k?
It was never really explained, but something like that.
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The planet evolved counters to the Catachan's tactics daily or more regularly, streams marked as clean water turned to skin-eating acid in weeks, and the like. At it's worst, the planet started using earthquakes, magma, and animated corpses (some of which were nothing but skeletons(!)) against both the Jungle Fighters and the Orks.

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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2009-02-16 12:06am

Damn!, that's one smart planet
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2009-02-16 12:37am

I always assumed that the Catchacan Barking toad was a fart joke taken to extreme. Still I wonder what 40k would do if they found a world that was an austrailia piss take, including the majority of the population being descendant from convicts, and deadly megafauna.....
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Serafina » 2009-02-16 06:01am

Um..isnt this a accurate description of Catachan?

Anyway, they would do the following: Install some kind of Imperial Goverment (a space station with some orbit-ground weapons should be sufficient) and force the natives to pay some kind of tribute (most likely soldiers for the imperial guard).
The deadly nature of the planet prevents all kind of other uses, and the Empire does not care whether the inhabitants are criminals or not.
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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Venator » 2009-02-16 09:51am

It'd more likely be used as a recruitment planet for the Space Marines - there are examples of uncivilized, violent populations making up Guard regiments, but they can be real headache.

If the conditions are hostile enough, though, it's the perfect Astares recruitment center - they pick from Death Worlds a lot as is, given that said planets do most of the selection process for them.

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Re: [40K] Catachan Barking Toads

Post by Serafina » 2009-02-16 04:34pm

Well, it depends on the chapter.

Most chapters have a few worlds they recruit from, and stick with those.
If any new planet is discovered, its likely that no chapter will use it for that purpose.
Unless they need more recruits than they already have acces to.

And new foundings are not exactly a common occurence.

Onyl a few space-based chapters pick from any world they come accross, and those prefer tribal worlds (which is not a given on death worlds, though its more likely).

But that remembers me of a nice army concept i saw a while ago:
A sororitas group that is solely recruited from a single death world (this one was a mix of nuclear wasteland and giant dinosaurs) - because only those struggling for survival can be truly obedient (and their combat capabilites are quite usefull).
It was one of the best backgrounds i ever saw - the guy had written several pages describing the culture and enviorment of the planet (its a shame he had no spare copy) and even brought some self-made terrain to the tournament. The best way to describe it is:
A mix of Fallout, Godzilla and 40K.
Awesome :shock:
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