IoM vs New Republic

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IoM vs New Republic

Post by Setzer » 2008-08-07 09:09pm

Take the New Republic just before the Vong war, and the Imperium of Man circa in M41, and throw them together. Assume all other opponents are removed.

For the sake of this thread, the two galaxies will overlap, like a Venn diagram. Each galaxy's outer limits will be somewhat close to the center of the next one.
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Post by Ender » 2008-08-07 10:08pm

As always, what role does chaos play here? If they are active the NR needs to find a way to protect against them. If they are inactive, that frees up a shit ton of IOM units.
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Re: IoM vs New Republic

Post by Setzer » 2008-08-07 10:13pm

Setzer wrote:Take the New Republic just before the Vong war, and the Imperium of Man circa in M41, and throw them together. Assume all other opponents are removed.

For the sake of this thread, the two galaxies will overlap, like a Venn diagram. Each galaxy's outer limits will be somewhat close to the center of the next one.
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Post by Tyrian2000 » 2008-08-07 10:29pm

Wouldn´t psykers completely fuck up the new republic?

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Post by Darksider » 2008-08-07 10:30pm

Tyrian2000 wrote:Wouldn´t psykers completely fuck up the new republic?
Psykers will remove the NR's naval superiority how?
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Post by Tyrian2000 » 2008-08-07 10:36pm

Darksider wrote:Psykers will remove the NR's naval superiority how?
There are Alpha psykers that can mind control thousands of civilians. They could turn ships against each other.

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Post by Setzer » 2008-08-07 10:48pm

I was thinking more in terms of political will. The IoM is certainly more willing to fight a war all out. OTOH, they're a lot like a deep sea fish that falls apart when there isn't enough external pressure on it. So what would happen if their enemies disappeared? Would a war with the New Republic be enough to keep secessions down to the usual level?
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Post by Brother-Captain Gaius » 2008-08-07 10:59pm

Tyrian2000 wrote:There are Alpha psykers that can mind control thousands of civilians. They could turn ships against each other.
The Imperium also does not actually control said psykers. The most powerful Imperial psykers are Beta at best, and rare to boot.

What's this about NR naval superiority, though? The Empire, sure, but as much as I always liked the NR... these are the wusses that couldn't stop a little extra-galactic foothold and subsequent invasion (something the IoM, by comparison, deals with on practically a daily basis).

If Chaos is automagically wished away, it introduces all sorts of problems into the scenario. What is the effect on the Warp? The Astronomicon? The Emperor? Psykers? All of these things are suddenly operating at 100% again, whereas the IoM normally manages to eek by with only a fraction of its true potential. The Warp is clear for ultra-fast travel, the Astronomicon becomes unnecessary, the Emperor no longer has to fend off the Chaos Gods, and psykers no longer have self-imposed limitations on their own power or the corruptive effects of Chaos, effectively turning afore-mentioned Beta psykers into juggernauts who make Wankatine look like a whipped bitch.

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Post by Tyrian2000 » 2008-08-07 11:11pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:The Imperium also does not actually control said psykers. The most powerful Imperial psykers are Beta at best, and rare to boot.
I actually misread the OP, and thought it was the NR versus the whole 40k universe. My bad.

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Post by Setzer » 2008-08-07 11:26pm

Alright, for the purposes of the thread, the usual perils of the warp still exist, but the Chaos Space Marines are out of the picture. Knowing the IoM, thy'll probably enjoy several precious seconds before some fresh warp spawned monstrosity makes their lives difficult, but they'll be good seconds.
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Post by Ar-Adunakhor » 2008-08-08 12:21am

If 1/3 of the IoM's galaxy is superimposed on the SW galaxy then we can pretty much say that (sizes being equal) 1/3 of the population of the SW galaxy will suddenly have demons erupting from their foreheads and such.

Gotta be bad for morale.

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2008-08-08 12:36am

The New Republic has the usual advantages of firepower and speed and industrial potential that the Empire has. They are, however, not nearly as militarized nor as uniformly controlled/lead. This affects the sorts of military responses they might utilize (no WMDs or BDZs, prboably no offensive war) and the assets they have available (fewer large ships, despite the Black Fleet Crisis ctastrophe)

Removing the Vong from the equation does not remove the fact that the New Republic of the NJO was rather corrupt and inefficient and even rather stonewalling. They also lack the centralized Navy of the Empire - a great deal of their naval forces are concentrated with larger member-state Navies.) They're also going to have problems with effiienciy in various key roles (particularily shipbuilding.) compared to the Empire.) To be honest, I don't think the NR is even as large as the Empire territorially (a million systems? A few million tops?)

There's also the fact they have too few Jedi (not that Jedi would neccesarily have made a huge advantage against all the 40K Psykers...)

The Imperium, on the other hand, is HEAVILY militarzied (over-militarized) has a huge amount of territory (tens of millions to billions of worlds), probably far larger fleets (millions if not tens of millions of warp-capable warship, and many times that number of lesser ship) They also have WMD and BDZ level capabilities and are NOT afraid to use them. THey too have their inefficiencies, slower construction capabilities and FTL, and lack of "unified" governing of its member states, but this is less a problem as the Imperium is purposefully oriented towards this.

The real thing here is that the NR is going to be seen as a massive group of heretics for consorting with aliens and Xenos filth and their rampant use of technology (same way they regard human swho collaborate with the Tau.) and they will almost ceratinly launch a Crusade, Lacking any other large scale threats, they can devote LOTS of resources to this (including, I imagine most if not all Space Marine chapters, sororitas, AdMech Explorator fleets, Rogue Traders, and so on and so forth.) The NR certainly will NOT intiitiate hostilities on its own, ,and will not employ the sortt of tactics teh Empire would (IE BDZing Imperium-held worlds, etc.)

Thus, I see the Imperium invading the New ERpublic first, probably catching them by s urprise, and the NR reacting defensively to this.

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Post by Peptuck » 2008-08-08 12:43am

Ar-Adunakhor wrote:If 1/3 of the IoM's galaxy is superimposed on the SW galaxy then we can pretty much say that (sizes being equal) 1/3 of the population of the SW galaxy will suddenly have demons erupting from their foreheads and such.
Why, exactly, would 1/3 of the population suddenly be attacked by daemons? what makes SW sapient beings any more susceptible to PotW than the countless trillions upon trillions of humans and other aliens in 40k that don't have daemons popping out of their heads daily?
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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2008-08-08 12:48am

40K humans are sucsceptible t daemonic and warp based entities because they're heavily psychic (like the Eldar) adn becoming moreso all the time. SW universe humans, almost entirely lacking psykers (and having none anywhere near the pwoer you find in 40K) In this way SW humans (and other creatures) will interact with the warp more like the Tau. Corruption n shit are still a threat through certain avenues, but their problems will be alot less than what it is in 40K.

Of course, by this same token, the warp in SW will also almost certainly be calmer, ich means that it'll be alot less difficult (and dangerous) to navigate.

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2008-08-08 01:00am

I think you'd want to reconsider the "venn diagram" idea, because I imagine that being that close together is going to introduce some peculiar (and hard to predict) problems (you're adding a whole buncha mass along with its accompanying gravity near another one- shoudln't the two galaxies influencee each other?_)

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Post by His Divine Shadow » 2008-08-08 03:47am

Connor MacLeod wrote:The Imperium, on the other hand, is HEAVILY militarzied (over-militarized) has a huge amount of territory (tens of millions to billions of worlds)
The last time I was into the 40k debate I had not seen any evidence for more than 1-10 million imperial worlds. Where did the tens of millions to billions of worlds come from?
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Post by dragon » 2008-08-08 05:16am

Hum how would force sensitive fairas compared to the normal people.
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Post by Darth Hoth » 2008-08-08 08:45am

Can it be that, if we assume the Force=the Warp, Jedi et al are weaker than 40k Psykers because their Warp is closed (given that there is no Eye of Terror equivalent)? Just an idea I had for an old fanfic that never got used. This might give SW slightly more parity in that department; otherwise, given two hundred Jedi, most of them low-powered, the metaphysics forces aspect is an utter curbstomp.

As for the general idea, what is the established difference between SW/IoM ships in firepower? Last I checked I understood the consensus to be set at about an order of magnitude, has this changed since? Presumably, we do not take Goto's wanking seriously.

The New Republic appears pretty pathetic compared even to the (minimalists' canon take on the) Empire in terms of militarisation. Do we take Black Fleet at face value, with capship counts numbering in the 5,000 range? If so, their power/mobility advantage might not count for all that much against sheer numbers. And given their performance against the Vong in build-up and commitment, I would not put too much faith in them. An enemy such as the Empire might perhaps use hyperdrive to still achieve overwhelming local superiority over individual IoM fleets, as well as use various whacky superweapons, but this is out of the question for the NR.

On the ground, if anything ever happens there . . . well, the Empire at its best would be somewhat pressed to match the Imperium set-up there, so the NR should be complete and utter toast.
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Post by NecronLord » 2008-08-08 10:33am

Connor MacLeod wrote:I think you'd want to reconsider the "venn diagram" idea, because I imagine that being that close together is going to introduce some peculiar (and hard to predict) problems (you're adding a whole buncha mass along with its accompanying gravity near another one- shoudln't the two galaxies influencee each other?_)
Galaxy collisions should take many thousands of years. Long enough to fight for short-sighted reasons rather than worry about the larger problem. :wink:
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Post by Setzer » 2008-08-08 10:38am

Connor MacLeod wrote:I think you'd want to reconsider the "venn diagram" idea, because I imagine that being that close together is going to introduce some peculiar (and hard to predict) problems (you're adding a whole buncha mass along with its accompanying gravity near another one- shoudln't the two galaxies influencee each other?_)
Well, if I put them edge to edge, I figured it would just be a rehash of all the logistical problems involved with campaigning in Tau territory. I just wanted a way for them to be able to strike at each other's territory with no great difficulty.
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Post by NecronLord » 2008-08-08 10:45am

Stack them one on top of another; like a cylon base-star.
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Post by Setzer » 2008-08-08 10:46am

I had that idea, but thought it might make it too easy for the IoM to hit Coruscant, and the NR to attack Holy Terra, respectively.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor » 2008-08-08 11:15am

Setzer wrote:I had that idea, but thought it might make it too easy for the IoM to hit Coruscant, and the NR to attack Holy Terra, respectively.
NR attack Holy Terra? :lol: They'd be swarmed by the Fleet based there, never mind the host of defences around the planet and Luna itself.
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Post by Imperial Overlord » 2008-08-08 01:11pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote: The Imperium also does not actually control said psykers. The most powerful Imperial psykers are Beta at best, and rare to boot.
That's incorrect. Alpha's don't tend to be stable, but the Imperium does have Alpha and higher grade psykers although they are extremely rare because most of them are insane and half to be purged. Ravenor, at the end of the Ravenor Trilogy, is one example as is Malacor the Sigilite.
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Post by Lord Relvenous » 2008-08-08 01:42pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:The Imperium, on the other hand, is HEAVILY militarzied (over-militarized) has a huge amount of territory (tens of millions to billions of worlds)
The last time I was into the 40k debate I had not seen any evidence for more than 1-10 million imperial worlds. Where did the tens of millions to billions of worlds come from?
I don't see how it came from anywhere when the 40k rulebook fluff states there are 1,000,000 worlds. Yes there is a certain level of error in the count, but not three orders of magnitude.
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