WH:40k space marine question

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Imperial Overlord
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Post by Imperial Overlord » 2008-06-02 04:35pm

[R_H] wrote:
Are ogryn a tiny minority of the Imperium's population? Would make sense not to bother with tailoring geneseed for them if ogryn aren't that common, and as you said too stupid. How do ogryn compare in strength to SMs and Orks?
Ogryn are a tiny percentage of the Imperium's population and they are grossly genetically deviant from the norm. They aren't even genetically consistent with each other, as "Ogryn" is a generic term for a combination of environmental and genetic traits that causes the human inhabitants of certain worlds to become big, tough, and dumb (probably relating to the fact these planets are often heavy g hellpits). Designing geneseed for them wouldn't make sense from a cost-benefit standpoint (and that's without addressing the "often too dumb to successfully employ technology more sophisiticated than a simple firearm" problem).

Strength wise it varies, but most of the are at least as strong as the biggest, meanest orks and it goes up from there. An ogryn once shifted a damaged Chimera to bring the commissar on it closer to a medkit.
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Post by Adrian Laguna » 2008-06-02 06:10pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:Strength wise it varies, but most of the are at least as strong as the biggest, meanest orks and it goes up from there. An ogryn once shifted a damaged Chimera to bring the commissar on it closer to a medkit.
Nork Dedogg, and he dragged the Chimera from one side of a road to the other because the medkit was inside it and his Commissar, lying wounded on the ground, asked him to get it. It's the perfect example of all brawn and no brains.

Ogryns can vary wildly in temperament, Nork is obedient and eager to follow orders, but some groups of Ogryns are dangerously violent, as in worse than Orks. There's a quote somewhere where an Imperial commander rejects the idea of releasing them by saying he might as well order Exterminatus.

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Post by Lord Revan » 2008-06-03 12:57pm

since this thread is alive (well moving under it's own power) again.

just how poison resistant is your "typical" space marine, the Horus Heresy books said that the Death Guard (pre-Nurgle) were known to highly resistant to toxins, plagues and such even for space marines, so I was wondering would this mean that the Death Guard was for all intents and purposes immune to chemical and biological weapons (the Life Eater "virus" was a special case and something you're not gonna find all that often).
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Post by Peptuck » 2008-06-03 01:18pm

They pretty much are immune to most poisons, due to one of their glands whose name escapes me. Keep in mind that very powerful poisons and diseases can affect them.
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Post by Teleros » 2008-06-03 01:31pm

In Brothers of the Snake, we also see a Marine bitten on the leg by some poisonous snake (forget what it was) and carrying on fine - in fact, he stored the poison in his betcher's gland for use later.

They're also probably fairly resistant to corrosives - I remember reading the story behind Sergeant Cloten of the old Bloodquest series, and it had him using the chemicals in his betcher's glands to help him chew through the steel bars of his cell (although I can't remember if it said how long it took). Certainly it'd be odd to have someone able to chew / dissolve through steel bars yet have their mouth dissolve along with it :P .

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Post by Peptuck » 2008-06-03 02:24pm

Teleros wrote: They're also probably fairly resistant to corrosives - I remember reading the story behind Sergeant Cloten of the old Bloodquest series, and it had him using the chemicals in his betcher's glands to help him chew through the steel bars of his cell (although I can't remember if it said how long it took). Certainly it'd be odd to have someone able to chew / dissolve through steel bars yet have their mouth dissolve along with it :P .
Also, one of the Medusa V campaign Dark Eldar despatches had a DE commander berating his troops for not taking proper security precautions when handling some captive Space Marines who escaped by spitting acid in their captors' faces.
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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2008-06-03 03:26pm

Adrian Laguna wrote:
Imperial Overlord wrote:Strength wise it varies, but most of the are at least as strong as the biggest, meanest orks and it goes up from there. An ogryn once shifted a damaged Chimera to bring the commissar on it closer to a medkit.
Nork Dedogg, and he dragged the Chimera from one side of a road to the other because the medkit was inside it and his Commissar, lying wounded on the ground, asked him to get it. It's the perfect example of all brawn and no brains.
Where was that indicated? Or where did it happen?

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2008-06-03 03:29pm

Imperial Overlord wrote: Ogryn are a tiny percentage of the Imperium's population and they are grossly genetically deviant from the norm. They aren't even genetically consistent with each other, as "Ogryn" is a generic term for a combination of environmental and genetic traits that causes the human inhabitants of certain worlds to become big, tough, and dumb (probably relating to the fact these planets are often heavy g hellpits). Designing geneseed for them wouldn't make sense from a cost-benefit standpoint (and that's without addressing the "often too dumb to successfully employ technology more sophisiticated than a simple firearm" problem).

Strength wise it varies, but most of the are at least as strong as the biggest, meanest orks and it goes up from there. An ogryn once shifted a damaged Chimera to bring the commissar on it closer to a medkit.
In the first Lightener spacewolf novel there's mention that Ogryn can "lift tanks" or something like that. We also know from one of the King space wolf novels that Ogryn are easily much stronger than a power armoured space marine (which is at least 10x for unarmoured marines, and dozens for armoured.. say 30-40x)

We also know Ogryn can vary widely in intelligence. Some are very stupid and can only wield the simplest weapons and primitive armour. Some can wear flak and wield Ripper guns (you can get entire squads doing that.) Some may wear mesh (usually the cybernetically enhanced leaders.).

There's one King short story that even has an Ogryn who is rather smart... is capable of using a grenade launcher effectively, though I imagine that's the upper end of the scale.

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Post by Imperial Overlord » 2008-06-03 03:51pm

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Where was that indicated? Or where did it happen?
A sidebar in the 3rd edition rulebook, IIRC.
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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2008-06-03 04:03pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:
Connor MacLeod wrote:
Where was that indicated? Or where did it happen?
A sidebar in the 3rd edition rulebook, IIRC.
Does anyone have the quote? That would be useful for quantification purposes.

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Post by legio mortis » 2008-06-03 04:11pm

Got it right here.
The huge figure shambled towards where the thin and tangled body of Colonel Greiss lay. Luckily the ancient colonel had been thrown free of the carrier as it veered out of control. Now the Chimera perched up-ended in a drainage ditch, steam and smoke pouring from its crew compartment. The force of the explosion had pitched Greiss into a ditch on the other side of the track.

As the massive Ogryn towered over the tiny body he sensed that his master was badly hurt. He looked for a moment at the oddly twisted limbs and blood-soaked uniform and poked the old man a couple of times to make sure he wasn't fooling. Greiss moaned faintly.

Nork felt a tide of misery well up inside his huge and faithful heart. Greiss was his friend. Greiss had been good to Nork and let him fight by his side. The Ogryn fumbled with his water bottle, breaking off the cap with clumsy hands as he gently proferred the bottle to the man's lips.

Greiss murmured as the cool water splashed over his face. "Nork," he whispered. "Stop trying to drown me and fetch the medi-pack."

"Yus, sarr!" shouted Nork, saluting instinctively with his left hand, then his right hand, then both hands together.
Nork shuffled to his feet and loped back toward the carrier. He picked his way past the crumpled bodies of the crew and the HQ squad, noticing with only passing curiosity the pain in his own legs where numerous shrapnel hits had penetrated his thick hide. Without a second thought he grabbed hold of the Chimera behind its rear track guards and heaved. The weighty vehicle shifted slightly. He heaved again. There was a creak of tortured metal as the carrier pivoted against the soft edge of the ditch and came to rest on its broad tracks.

Colonel Greiss tried to flex his hands. Nothing. He tried to raise his head but as he did so his vision swirled and he lost consciousness. He came round moments later, or minutes, or was it hours, it was hard to tell. His ears were booming from the noise of the explosion. All he could hear was a sound like something large and heavy being slowly dragged over an unyielding surface. His sight seemed to be growing dim and shadowy. Then he realised Nork was standing over him and beside Nork was the wreckage of the Chimera. The Ogryn had dragged the armoured carrier out of the ditch and twenty yards down the road.

"I said fetch the medi-kit, not the carrier, Nork," whispered Greiss. He was regaining the feeling in his arms and legs and didn't like it much.
"Da medi-kit is in da carrier, surr," beamed the Ogryn.

"Good thinking Nork," grunted the colonel through clenched teeth and mounting pain. "Now bring the medi-kit over here."

"Yus, surr!" came the loud and snappy response as Nork plunged into the Chimera, remembered he had forgotten to salute, came back, saluted twice for good measure, and busied himself searching for the vehicle's medical supply chest.

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Post by andrewgpaul » 2008-06-03 07:23pm

2nd edition Codex: Imperial Guard, I think. Possibly the 1st one for 3rd edition (i.e, not the book with the Doctrines rules).
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Post by legio mortis » 2008-06-03 08:04pm

andrewgpaul wrote:2nd edition Codex: Imperial Guard, I think. Possibly the 1st one for 3rd edition (i.e, not the book with the Doctrines rules).
Yeah, it's also in the first 3rd edition codex.

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Post by Cykeisme » 2008-06-03 11:29pm

Yeah, it's also up on Games Workshop's website.
++uk.games-workshop.com/imperialguard/special-characters/3/
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Post by Night_stalker » 2009-11-29 10:32am

Lord Revan wrote:since this thread is alive (well moving under it's own power) again.

just how poison resistant is your "typical" space marine, the Horus Heresy books said that the Death Guard (pre-Nurgle) were known to highly resistant to toxins, plagues and such even for space marines, so I was wondering would this mean that the Death Guard was for all intents and purposes immune to chemical and biological weapons (the Life Eater "virus" was a special case and something you're not gonna find all that often).
They will be untouched by plague or disease, no sickness will blight them.

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