40K misc numbers and analysis thread

[Connor MacLeod]

Anyhow after a long hiatus on the project, I'm back on track with this. This time I'm covering more misc stuff from Rogue Trader. Enjoy.

Page 166

If he [Rogue Trader] judges a race to be potentially dangerous he may attempt to destroy it, or gather as much information about it as he can so that others may do so. If he decides a race may be of use to humanity he may attemt to make contact and establish relations. If merely technologically or minerally rich, a planet may be plundered, and the Rogue Trader will return to Earth laden with the treasure of space; alien artifacts, rare and precious mineral sand undreamed of technology.

Purposes/duties of a Rogue Trader. They largely seem to act as mobile/independent search and destroy/reconnaisance/diplomatic and commerce functions (kind of like a Federation starship, just better designed and with fewer exploding reactors) Note that while I believe some of the purposes have changed a little with progressive editions, this largely amounts to the RT's and the Imperium being alot more xenophobic in principle. In reality, they still are wililng to trade/deal with aliens to some extent (But they probably still plan for the race's eventual elimination.) and they quite likely still plunder the tehcnologly regardless.


Page 166

His [Rogue TRader's] total responsibility may extend to a dozen spacecraft, often huge, lumbering cargo vessels crammed with a small army, and a full crew of technicians and volunteer settlers to establish colonies on new worlds.

I believe BFG and later editions retconned the sizes of fleets up to "dozens". We might infer that a "dozen" as something of an average, I suppose.

Page 185

Orks are large humanoids, averaging 2 metres tall, with long, poweful limbs.

Average height of Orks. Again, I believe this carries through into later editions, but gets retconned slightly by the Orks slouching/stooping rather than walking erect.

Page 186

As in the Imperium there are many levels of civilisation throughout the Ork domains. Most o ftheir worlds are self-sufficient semi-medeviel planets where technology is largely ignored or reserved purely for the arts of war.

"Most" Ork worlds are largely in the feudal category (or somewhat above it), though they exhibit the same variety of variation that Imperium worlds do. Presumably they have a share of Agricultural, civilised, mining and other worlds to support the individual "empires". They may even have "forge" worlds. Note, however that most of these worlds are probably conquered/occupied territories home to slave/servant races the Orks have dominated (as mentione din other sources, the Orks will make heavy use of slave labor to provide their infrastrucutre and whatot.)

It is rather safe to say (due to the fact that "most" worlds are of the quasi-feudal level, ,as well as observed Ork technology in general) that the general level of Ork technology (computers/fire control, weaponry/ordnance, materials science, etc.) is probably inferior to the Imperium's, though they clearyl have areas (force fields and teleporters) where they are equal/superior.

Page 191

Gretchin vary in height from 1 to 2 meters but most are around 1.7 meters. They are thin and wiry, agile and quite athletic but not particularily strong or resilient.

Gretchin (or Grots) are roughly human-sized, and probably in most respects comparable to humans, t hough probably not as potentially strrong due to their physique.

Page 194

Of all the races in teh galaxy the Slann claim to be, and may actually be, the oldest.

...


The Slaan evolved, matured and spread throughout the galaxy many hundreds of thousands of years ago.

...

During the heyday of their empire they discovered and nutured many primitive creatures, encouraging the evolutionary process on countless worlds, eradicating or moving dangerous species, and seeding many planets with promising stock.

As I recall the Slaan are considered quite likely to be the "Old Ones" who engineered the psychic races and fought the Necrons many millions of years ago. Of course, with the advent of hte Necrons, I'm also pretty sure the whole "Slaan are the oldest race" bit also got retconned.


PAge 196

The most amazing thing about the Jokaero is their technical brilliance - they appear to have an innate, ,genetically structured understanding of technology. Their comprehension of astrophysics is baffling, they seem to be able to tap power-currents which flow imperceptibly through the galaxy. Their understanding of such matters goes far beyond that of even the most advanced of other known races, with the possible exception of the Great Mages of the Slann. Jokaero spacecraft are a case in point. A Jokaero spacecraft looks like no other form of space transport, consisting entirely of an open framed lattice structure, forming a unique polyhedral shape. This structure draws energy from the galactic powercurrents simply by virtue of its shape. In a similar way to which force weapons channel psychic energy by virtue of their spiral patterns, Jokaero spacecraft move, manoeuvre. and transcend warp-space by means of making physical changes ot the ship's shape, thereby altering the craft's relationship to the universal powers it employs, ad modifying its place in the naural galactic order.

The Jokaero share the "genetic engineering/science" brainbug that the later-edition Orks acquired,but on a higher/more sophisticated plane. They are considered more advanced than any other race save the Slaan/Old Ones (including the Eldar) - probably not a real surprise since IIRC the Jokaero were "engineered" by the Slaan/Old Ones the same way the Orks and Eldar were. Its also likely that their technology is less advanced than the Necrons, since the Necrons are on par with the Slaan (possibly better even, I don't really remember.)

Of interesting note is how the technology of the Jokaero is heavily implied to be based on tapping "galactic power currents" - I take this to be some reference to the Warp (probably is.) This would probably suggest their technology is heavily psychic-based in the same way the Eldar is. That might go some way to explain/mitigate the goofy "genetic technology" bit as well.

Also, they use the warp as a sort of reactionless drive as well as power generation system. The latter is no surprise since the Eldar can do that also (well the Imperium's plasma reactors probably do as well.), but save for a Tau slave race, warp-based reactionless drives have never been suggested before. Its possible that the "propulsion" of the Eldar might be similar as well (its alot more sensible than that silly "light sail" thing they already have..)


PAge 200

No-one knows how many Hive Fleets there are buried deep within the darkness of interstellar space. The best efforts of the Imperium to scout out the Hive Fleets so far revealed thirteen scattered thrroughout the western par of the galaxy. However, the galaxy is uncompromisingly large, and there may be manyy more which remain undetected.

...

Each fleet comprises millions upon millions of craft, resembling a huge cloud of cosmic locusts.

According to this, there are at least thirteen (and probably more) hive fleets consisting of many "millions upon millions" If we assume "millions upon millions" implies 4 million minimum, that means at least fifty million Tyranids. Each Hive fleet also supposedly has countless billions of Tyranid troops, so that also probably means some many tens/hundreds of billions or even trillions of Tyranid troops in the Hive fleets alone (not that it matters, Tyranids can raise/create troops fairly quickly given access to any resorucecs.)

I don't know if the number of hive fleets is still considered valid, though as far as I know there have been at least 8-9 different hive fleets mentioned in later various sources, so it can't be off by much. Moreover, the whole "ther ecould be many more" idea has been carried through IIRC - there has been much conjecture about there being "bigger" fleets still in the void between galaxies, and IIRC there was one online source (which I'll have to dig up later) on Tyranoforming which implied that much of the matter harvested from a world gets transported elsewhere.

In any case, the minimum numbers alone imply frigging huge/insane Tyranid numbers (which is scary coupled with their insane durability, also to be discussed later.) WHat's more scary is that there could be (and probably are) MANY more Tyranids out there than I calc'ed.


Page 200

A world is nothing more than a resource to the Hive Fleets, a mine of minerals, ,fuel and biological material. The Tyranids find a use for everything - from each tiny living creature to the very atmosphere of the planet, nor do they leave a world until it is reduced to a bare core of airless rock.

The Tyranids harvest all biological life (apparently even bacteria and viruses and other microscopic life) as well as the oceans and atmosphere, as well as some minerals (probably those relevant to human life, as well as some silicates/ceramics for augmenting their chitin.)


PAge 235

High trajectory weapons ae the futuristic equivalents of mortars and howitzers, which "lob" shots over the tops of buildings, woods, and other scenic features at targets beyond. This is called indirect fire.

....

High trajectory wepaons include thrown objects, grenade launchers, auto-cannon, macro-cannon, and most large missiles.

I'm only including this because in Rogue Trader autocannons could include tank guns, and thus this implies that Imperium tank weapons can engage in indirect fire (I've speculated as much, and its been shown in some novels like "Necropolis.". Note that battlecannon (the main tank weapon on Imperium MBTs) don't get introduced til a later source, but they fell somewhere bettween autocannon and macro-cannon in size, so they arguably too would be capable of indirect fire like the other two weapons are.

[The Grim Squeaker]

WHat's more scary is that there could be (and probably are) MANY more Tyranids out there than I calc'ed.

I beg to disagree, what's scarier is that the hive fleets apparently have the Entire Milky way Galaxy surrounded. (According to newer fluff and the opposing "paths" of the newer hive fleets).

Excellent thread BTW (As usual, but this is particularily useful due to the obscurity of the sources ).

[andrewgpaul]

PAge 235

High trajectory weapons ae the futuristic equivalents of mortars and howitzers, which "lob" shots over the tops of buildings, woods, and other scenic features at targets beyond. This is called indirect fire.

....

High trajectory wepaons include thrown objects, grenade launchers, auto-cannon, macro-cannon, and most large missiles.

I'm only including this because in Rogue Trader autocannons could include tank guns, and thus this implies that Imperium tank weapons can engage in indirect fire (I've speculated as much, and its been shown in some novels like "Necropolis.". Note that battlecannon (the main tank weapon on Imperium MBTs) don't get introduced til a later source, but they fell somewhere bettween autocannon and macro-cannon in size, so they arguably too would be capable of indirect fire like the other two weapons are.

In fact, the original battlecannon description (on an Ork tank in WD 13-something) explicitly described it as a large-calibre, slower-firing autocannon.

[white_rabbit]

Rogue Trader autocannons could include tank guns

In current era 40k they can include tank guns as well ?

[Connor MacLeod]

WHat's more scary is that there could be (and probably are) MANY more Tyranids out there than I calc'ed.

I beg to disagree, what's scarier is that the hive fleets apparently have the Entire Milky way Galaxy surrounded. (According to newer fluff and the opposing "paths" of the newer hive fleets).

Do you have a sourcee on that?

Even if its true it be alot less nasty than it implies Recall that the ability of Hive Fleets to disrupt the warp can extend for MANY light years around the fleet itself (hundreds of light years at least, as I recall) - hundreds or even thousands of fleets could arguably "encircle" the galaxy, depending on how extensive the Shadow of the Warp is. (then agian, "billions" of Tyranid ships are not exactly a pleasant prospect, either.)

On the other hand, one has to wonder why they've never attacked En-masse if they have that many ships. Thousands of Hive Fleets engaging simultaneously would steamroll the Imperium in short order.

[Connor MacLeod]

Rogue Trader autocannons could include tank guns

In current era 40k they can include tank guns as well ?

I'm well aware that "autocannon" in later editions came to include smaller cannons (including some man-portable autocannon in some editions, like in heavy weapons squads), but to my knowledge this has never been directly retconned either. (Just like we know some macro-cannon scale up to Warship grade.)

The Forgeworld diagrams for autocannons at least indicate they could be comaparable to at least lighter tank guns (70-90mm at least)

[Connor MacLeod]

New update, and a bigger one. This time I decided to clean out Adeptus Titanicus. Really old sourcec, some of the data is almost certainly overriden (liek the Titan sizes) still interesting to read nonetheless.

Adeptus Titanicus:

Warp space is a spearate and complex universe that exists besides our own reality. For every point in realspace there is a corresponding location in Warp Space. The two universes are intimately connected but by no means follow the same laws. Simply because two locations are separated by tens of light years in reality the same does not hold true for the common points in warp space, which effectively might be only a few miles apart.

The implication for warp space is that it, much like B5 hyperspace it involves ships crossing shorter dimensions in the "warp" than it does in realspace, giving effective fTL travel. There is also the help/hinderance of the warp currents too (but B5 hyperspace had "currents" to, ,though in 40K they're much more unpredictable.)

The idea that "a few miles" corresponds to a distance of "tens of lightyears" does imply some fairly insane FTL speeds it must be noted. Assuming a minimum accel of a few hundred gees (~3-5 km/sec) that means a ship in warp can cross tens of light years in a single second. At this rate, a ship could cross the Imperium in about an hour.

Titans are immense fighting machines, mechanical warriors up to 100 feet tall.

Yes, I know titan sizes have changed and/or are inconsistent. I am merely being completist by including this data.

Titans are powered by comparatively old-fashioned plasma reactors.

...

The Titan's Void shield generators alone require such huge amounts of energy that nothing else will suffice. Even the tight operating margins of a Titan's plasma reactor - and the consequences of a melt-down or runaway reaction - are a small price to pay for the energy needed.

Plasma reactors are regarded as "old fashioned" though in latter editions they become very common among larger vehicles (superheavies and titans and up.)

The bit about void shields consuming large amounts of energy is odd, because it implies the shields either are extremely wasteful in energy (kinda pointless - why do the yneed the energy if the vast majority is released as waste?) or they do alot of work (in which case, what work do they do?) The only circumstances under which the shield "might" do work is if its moving some sort of active medium ("plasma" for example) around the ship or in/out of generators (or replacing it) or if its doing work on any sort of incoming matter (Accelerating it awaY) in such a fashion that involves changing the velocity (and thus kinetic energy) of the impactor (but in the latter case it will only consume energy when it does work.. and really it doesn't need to consume energy to do this.)

The Void Shields are the Titan's main line of defense. A shield absorbs damage until its Void Shield Generator becomes overloaded. Cut offs prevent the Generator burning out when this happens, but the shield still collapses. However, once the excess power has been drained off, the Generator can be restarted, raising the Void Shield once more. Where possible, Titans carry a sufficient number of generators so that, in theory, some of its shields will be operable at all times. In practice this may not always be the case, and once a Titan has lost its shields it is vulnerable. In emergencies the Princeps can override the VSG cut-offs, pushing the Shields to their limits. If it works, this risky tactic can defeat almost any tactic. If it fails (as is most likely) the Princeps will reduce his titans defenses to pools of useless, molten slag.

This implies that void shields are an active energy absorption/retransmission system (They absorb energy from attacks, storing it, and eventually dissipating it.) much like SW shields. Apparently excess power cannot be "drained off" while the shield is active. This is a bit inconsistent with the "Shields consume huge amounts of power" nonsense frrom above.

Void shields systems also incorporate extensive redundancy to maintain at least some level of continual shielding (based on context, if one shield goes down another activiates to maintain the shields while the other generator bleeds off the accumulated power.)

Sheilds also appear to operate with a unspecified safety margin that can (in emergencies) be overloaded, pushing the generators to their maximum (or amybe beyond) capabilities.

Battle Titans stand between 40 and 80 feet tall. Each Battle Titan is protected by up to six Void Shield Generators and armed with a variety of weapons.

...

Emperor Titans are taller - some 70 to 100 feet tall - and considerably bulkier.

The "sizes" of various kinds of Titans. As noted above, I am well aware of the inconsistencies.

For longer than there has been an Imperium there have been Warlord Class Battle Titans, their design history stretches back ot the Final War period. It is popular with all the Military Orders of the Collegia Titanica and millions have been built to the design over the millenia.

"millions" of Warlord class titans have been built over the millenia. Whether or not this includes "destroyed"Titans is unknown.

Each Titan is operated by a crew of three to five, all of whom are linked to their machine through mind-impulse units.

...

The Princeps need only think that he is walking, running, or whatever: the mind-impulse system and the fiber-bundles do the rest, translating his thoughts into movement by the Titan.

...

The crew are protected within individual support bubbles that can be ejected from the Titan in an emergency. Each support machine includes data and view screens that display wepaons readouts, outside views and target information. Manual controls for use in the event of a mind-impulse failure are also provided.

....

The mind impulse units link the crew and the Titan on the ost intimate level. Thoughts become the actions of the Titan.

...

For the most part, ,feedback dampers prevent the crew from feeling damage suffered by the Titan. Failure in these systems is fortunately rare, for the crew then suffer terrible pseudo-injuries and pain as the Titan is damaged.

Crew complement, ejection capabilities of the titan, and the operation/abilities of the Mind-impulse link.

Titans were first used during the Dark Age of Technology and the first of the Alien Wars: during that period of time each human colony had at least one titan Legion, and many had dozens deployed in their defence.

If each colony had at least one Titan legion during the DAoT this may have implied the existence of millions of Titan legions in the past, though many had "Dozens", suggesting that that number could be conservative by an order of magnitude.

Each Order [of the divisio Militaris] is based on its own forge World, and includes many ground combat troops and support staff in addition to the Battle Titans. Some of the Military Orders are highly specialized forcecs, created to deal with Siege works or combat in exotic planetary atmospheres, for example.

No Order, however, is allowed to have its own space transport, it is a matter of Imperial policy that this must be provided by the Imperial Fleet.

...

During the Horus Heresy more than half of the Titan Legions joined the Rebellion.

...

Over a hundred of the Divisio's Orders are stationed near the Eye of Terror to combat the Chaos Titans of the banished and mutated traitor Legions. The remainder are scattered at strategically important sites across the Imperium.

Descrpition of the Titan OrderS (legions) - Each is essentially a combined arms force composed of troops (Tech Guard/Skitarii) and probably toher vehicles as well as the Titans themselves. At least 100 Orders are stationed near the eye of Terror.

No Titan Legion has its own transport (supposedly) though we see in First and Only that this is not exactly true. If the AM does not "officially" own those ships, they practically do. (And we know in Soul Drinkers they have their own ships for transporting Ordinatus, so transporting Titans shouldn't be hard.)

Half the Titan legions (like half of everything else) went with Horus.

The Executive ORders of the Divisio Mandati travel in vast temple-spaceships, bringing the pax Imperia to the isoalted worlds of the Imperium. Each temple ship carries between two and five of the immense Emperor Class Titans, plus priests, regular troops, maintenance adepts and other support personnel.

In turn, each Emperor Class Titan is a self-contained unit carrying members of the Adeptus Arbites, the Inquisition, and the Adeptus Terra. It is their task to bring the pax Imperia to all the worlds in their care.

...

Some of the Executive Orders never move beyond the boundaries of the Imperium, having a regular diocese under their peripatetic care. Others specialize in taking the word of the pax Imperia beyond the boundaries of Imperial Spacee. These Missionary Orders, often operating in support of Rogue Traders, are the elite of the Divisio Mandati.

Some Titans seem to specialize in missionary/Exploratory/conquest work, designed for self-contained/independent operation as well as combined-arms warfare. This seems to be rather a dangerous idea, as it puts amny of the elements meant to be kept separate in one location (They could probably conquer some systems, like Agri-worlds.) On the other hand, they also represent a viable "reaction" forcee in eemergencies.

The Divisio Telepathica operated the dreaded, but very rare, Psi-Titans, and is somewhat smaller than either the Divisio Militaris or Divisio Mandati. The Telepath Orders each operate from a hidden Forge World near the heart of the Imperium - ready to respond to dire crises in huuman space.

THese were mentioned in the Eye of Terror campaign. They operate from a "hidden" Forge world near the ceenter of the Imperium. We're not specifically told what they are or what they are capable of, but one could surmise that they are Battle Titans operated by psykers. If one considers the existence of psi-amplifying technology (like what Ravenor used) and the firepower available to conventional titans, a squad of these behemoths must be frightening indeed.

As soon as it was completed, he was placed within its [Golden Throne] confines, where he has remained for ten millenia, sustained by the souls drainned from millions of human psychics.

The Emperor has supposedly consumed "millions" of human psykers over 10 millenia. Depending on how you define "millions" it could come out to single, double, ,or triple digits a day.

there are one thousand Chapters, each of one thousand Marines, a mere million battle-brothers.

Direct claim (which contradicts other sources, but this may be because this is earliest material) that there are only "one million" Space Marines.

The Imperial Guard are recruited from the elite of the Imperium's planetary armies. The sheer number of regiments in the Guard staggers the imagination; it is truly a cast force, with tremendous capabilities.

The Imperial Guard are recruited from the "elite" of the Planetary armies (reinforcing hte "top 10%" claim seen in other sources.)

Rogue Traders have no formal military rank, but they are often attached detatchments of Space Marines or Imperial Guard as a private army. With a retinue of tech-priests, Inquisitors, and psykers, a Rogue Trader can be a formidable conqueror, even without the occasinonal backing of the Collegia Titanica.

Rogue Traders are implied to wield a sort of authority/power the size and scope of which could only be matched by the Inquisition (or may in some cases exceed, since they can have Inquisitors as part of their retinue. On the other hand, Inquisitors can also have Rogue Traders as part of their retinue.)

Seven years of hard fighting remained, as the rest of the Imperium was cleansed of the naive rebels who had sided with the Warmaster. All were destroyed or driven into the Eye during the Great Scouring.

It took seven years after Horus' fall to completely rout Chaos forces from the Imperium. Some were destroyed, others joined Horus in the Eye of Terror.

Over one hundred titan Orders of the Divisio Militari sare assigned to worlds near the Eye

Again, 100 Titan Orders/Legions assigned near worlds by the EoT. This does imply that at least 100 or so forge Worlds inhabit the areas around the Eye. Anyone know how many Sectors surround the Eye?

the domination and possession of psykers is only one weapon in their [daemons] armory. Human perversity and greed works in their favor; there are those who, for reasons of their own, are prepared to commit the ultimate heresy and offer worship to these dark beings.

The techniques and tactics of Daemons and their possession fo human beings. Unwilling possession seems to be largely dependent upon the "psychic sensitiveity/warp connection" of the individual - the larger the connection the greatre the chance eof possession (although past a certain level of power, a psyker becomes strong enough to generally resist, which is why some Imperium Psykers aren't soul-bound to the Emperor.) But it does imply that ANYONE can willingly choose to serve Chaos and thus be corrupted. The difference is largely that the warp "connection" inherent to many 40K humans (or other entities really) act as potential "portals" into realspace.

Fortunately, Void Shields can be raised again once the energy they have absorbed has been drained off, and all the Titans have built-in auto-repair units for repairing damaged systems.

Titans have auto repair fucntions, and onc emore Void shields are specified as energy absorption/reradiation systems.

A rod of light sprang into momentary being as the huge laser fired, and a nimbus of adamantium vapor boiled away from the Traitor carapace, the Titan's plasma cannon was reduced to slag.

If we knew the dimensions of a Titan's weapon, we might estimate its mass (and thus the energy input needed.) Assuming an arbitrary (I haven't scaled it) 5 meter length and a half meter diameter, 50% empty and composed of iron, its at least 4 tons of iron melted/vaporized. This implies an output of at least several (5) Gigajoules and possibly up to 30+ GJ minimum.

Close combat is swift and brutal. It takes place at very short range the Titans actually get inside each others Void shields,

Void shields apparently project themselves a number of meters (I'd guess ~10 meters or so) from the titan, which is why other Titans can get "under" them.

Titans with three or more Void shields are fitted with a device which allows the Princeps to bypass the Void Shields' overload cutout mechanism as a last-ditch mesure to stop a hit. Instead of going down when overloaded, the Void Shields stay up, taking the strain of the excess energy. Sometimes the Void Shields survivem and sometimes the Void Shield Generators are reduced to molten slag and the Titan is without Void Shields for the rest o fthe battle.

The "overload" mechanism. Again, the best explanation for this mechanism "in universe" is that Titans operate at "less than optimum efficiency" to reduce strain on the engines (a "safety margin" if you will. In emergencies the Princeps will "exceed" the safety margin to keep Void shields up, despite the risk of this.

Just as Titans that are in close combat 'merge' their shields, friendly Titans can do the same thing as a defensive tactic to protect a damaged Titan.

Void shields can be merged/overlapped so as to provide greater protection against enemies outside the shielding. One presumes this is a common tactic for Titans.

When a Blind Missile explodes, it scatters Blind Grenades over a wide area. Blind is a sophsticated form of smokescreen, ,combining dense smoke with broad-spectrum electromagnetic interference. None of a Titan's detection and targeting systems will operate through a cloud of Blind.

- a form of (actually fairly sophisticated) electronic warfare/countermeasures systems deployed by both Titans and the Guard and Space Marines in combat, to foil various targeting systems. Captial ships presumably use a larger-scale variation as well.

Haywire missiles release a massive burst of electrostatic and radioactive pulse waves when they explode, designed to disrupt the target's electrical control systems.

-basically EMP weapons.

The plasma is a huge and very effective weapon. While in flight, it splits into six masses of seething lasma, whcih spread out to saturate the target area.

- Plasma warhed. Seems to combine aspects of a barrage bomb/MIRV weapon with the "plasma" warhead.

The Stasis Missile carries a Stasis Field Generator (SF) as a warhead. The SFG is a highly-sophisticaed device which creates an area where time literally stands still. Anything caught within the statsis field is forzen in place and unable to do anything - but Titans outside the field cannot fire into it.

Stasis weapon. Presumably these are now considered very rare/difficult to acquire, since they don't "often" show up in any combat one sees.

When a Vortex Missile explodes, it creates a seething mass of energy known as a Vortex field. This area is quite devastatingly destructive, even for a machine as tough as a titan.

Vortex warheads. the Vortex is not literally a "seething mass of energy", but is more akin to technobabble "black hole" weapons.

Cameleoline is a reactive camoflage that mimics the background and helps mask a Titan from all forms of sighting devices. It works on a broad spectrum, and hides the Titan from sight and all other sensing systems.

Titan "cameleoline" - presumably it doesn't imply similar capabilities for the capes that Guard can carry, at least not in a totally linear sense. Its more of a stealth/cloaking system.
(It is possible that cameleoline or some versions do provide some "stealth" function sgainst certain kinds of sensors.)

COBRA (Command Override Battle Reaction Automation) is a generic term covering a number of different devices that allow a titan to react to threats with greater speed.

This seems to be some sort of emergency "automation" system that can exert some limited control over the Titans in emergencies (or speed up manual processes.)

RELAY is a device that allows a Titan to take over the guidance of support missiles fired by other titans, and home them in on a target within its own line of sight./

Indicates telementry-like functions between Ttians (the ability to send/rececive data transmissions amongst one another, implying some fairly sophisticated coordinating ability.)

Titans are silly because they're mecha, but you have toa dmit they're sophisticated. Pity, they won't build a superheavy as sophisticated as a Titan. The 40K equivalent of Bolos.

"A Warp Missile actually travels through Warpspace, the strange chaotic universe used by starships to span immense distances in space. The missile enters warpspace when it is fired, and is programmed to re-enter realspace on the other side of the target's Void Shields. It may even materialize within the target itself."

Warp missiles. Weapons that allow warheads to bypass shields and represent one (rare?) example of Imperiul FTL warheads (like Weberverse hypermissiles.) Again, like Statsis and Vortex weapons, one presumes these are fairly rare. ITs also possible that (if they were avialable) Deathstrike platforms could mount such a missile, since Deahtstrikes share many similairites to titan-mounted missile weaponry.

[Connor MacLeod]

I think this is one of my first bit Epic 40K coverages. Its a very old one too... the "armies" book. Very early stuff. Not sure what (if anyhting) might be retconned, but I found alot of fascinating shit in it. I hope you find it fascinating too. enjoy!

This is roughly the first "half" of the quotes I have.. I'll probably post the other half sometime soon.

Page 6

On the massive war-torn battlefields that Epic 40,000 represents, the differences between twin autocannons and a single battlecannon are so minor they become irrelevant.

This may or may not have been in the context of game mechanics (the "Epic" sclae stuff tends to switch between "in universe" and "in game" randomly at times.) but the implication would seem to be that autocannon (or at least the higher end verisons of it) are only a bit more powerful than a Battle cannon (several times more powerful.)

If we take the rogue Trader reference ot autocannon being like tank guns (or scale autocannons off of Forgeworld), this would construe evidence that Battle cannon ARE more powerful than modern tank guns (at least 2x more powerful, anyhow.)

Page 9

A space marine detachment is a group of squads. Each Space Marine squad consists of ten Space Marines. In Epic 40,000 the suqad is split into two units, each represented by five Space Marines models on a single base.

...

Remember that one unit is a single base of infantry, a vehicle, a piece of field artillery or three cavalry models on one base. These are always counted as units and their organisation within the army does not affect this.

Definition of a "unit" in 40K. I consider this worth mention for two reasons:

1.) it indicates that (at least in 40K) that the "squad" is not really the smallest formation. they have these five man "units" - which are probably the inspiration for the "5-man fire teams" that show up in many of hte BL novels (like Ciaphas Cain.) - which was stated to be an "unofficial" formation. (this seems to suggest otherwise.)

2.) alot of the fluff (and novel references) frequently mention "units" of troopers, and such troopers being affected by weapons (like plasma or meltaguns) and this gives us an idea for probably numbers of troops affected.


PAge 14

These tasks fall to the vast armies and fleets of the Emperor, organisations so large and so widely scattered that even the Administratum of Earth are not able to tally the men and machines fighting in the thousands of crusades and warzones.

The forcecs (ground forces presumably) involved in "thousands" of Crusadse and Warzones across the Imperium are considered "countless".

The "thousands of Crusades and Warzones" fits roughly well with what is stated elswhere (thousand, or "hundreds") within an Orde ro fMagnitude. Note if we took the Sabbat Worlds Crusade as a rough benchmark for the average "crusade/warzone", this might imply there are many "billions" (more likely tens or hundreds of billions") or more probably trillions of guardsmen engaged in Wars throughout the galaxy. This doesn't include forces assigned to defensive duties elsewhere, ,presumably, or garrisoning other worlds, however.


Page 16

Mechanised columns of infantry in Chimera armoured troop carriers can launch rapid assaults to grab vital objectives or counter-attack againt an enemy offensive. Chimeras can be augmented in a variety of ways, with extra armour or alternative weapons, creating variants to suit many roles. These are supported by Griffon mortars, which lay down a covering bombardment of heavy mortars.

....

The Leman Russ battle tank is the mainstay of any Imperial Guard armoured attack, bristling with lascannon, battle-cannon, and heavy bolters for a flexible mix of anti-tank and anti-personnel weaponry.

Description of some of the ground vehicles/armour of the Imperial Guard. Note in partiuclar that the Chimera is highly modular (it can be made more heavily armoured or lightly rmoured, and its armaments changed greatly.)

Also note the sorts of tactics implied by the use of Chimeras, which seem to imply speed and mobility ( which makes sense for mechanized infantry/armoured fist groups.) For all in tents and purposes "mechanised" infantry/squads seem to be a key "mobile offense" arm of the Guard. They seem to be supported likewise by mobile artillery (mainly mortars), but we could also infer light "tanks" support them (some Predator equivalent, or a Chimeara variant. Necropolis mentions "light" tanks...) Though in practice, a Chimera with a pair of lascannon woiuld probably do just as well as an anti-tank vehicle.

As I recall (mentioned by White Rabbit once) the Imperium once had a "battlecannon" varient of the Chimaera, which may be close to a "tank" version. (which may be similar to the "variable role" nature of the Stryker APC, though IMHO the Chimera is better.)


page 17

The huge, sprawling battle lines of the Imperial Guard sometimes stretch for hundreds of miles.

Scope/size of a battlefield. T his implies the "width" of the battle lines in qestion, but it may also infer the "depth" (ie distance between two opposing forces.), which is probably almost as big. Note, however, this seems to be more of an "upper limit" rather than a "rule" - we can probably consider such battles to be unusual.

PAge 17

Finally, there are the one-shot Deathstrike missile launchers. These carry huge Vortex missiles, similar to those mounted on the carapaces of Battle Titans. These are the ultimate tank hunters, able to crush squadrons of enemy tanks or inflict crippling damage on war engines with a single shot.

"Deathstrike" missiles. An earlier version, at least, when vortx weapons were more common. They probably qualify as "superheavy" vehicles in this regard, but more of artillery platforms than as armour/tanks. They're also frighteningly poweful - for all intents and purposes mobile tactical/strategic nukes (and these are intended as "tank hunters"!)

Page 17

A Hydra's rapid-firing quad autocannon fills the sky with a seething curtain of flak to bring down flyers, or shred opposing grround forces if they get too close.

Hydras are "dual purpose" anti-air/anti-personnel weapons ( as we have seen in novels). Its not likely that these "autocannons"a re "tank grade", but probably smaller (though they MAY be tank grade...)

One thing that I am curious about, is why the Hydras have never bothred with lascannon/multilasers for point defense. Presumably there is nothing tsopping them (traditional Chimeras were frequently armed with multilasers as standard, IIRC) and ther ewould be nothing stopping it, but still...

Page 17

These mammoth machines (superheavy tanks) carry a prodigious amount of firepower in the case of the multi-trureted Baneblade, or the huge, long range plasma or laser cannon of the Shadowsword.

...

Though seldom used in offensives Leviathans carry their own formidable rmament and are heavily protected by void shields.

Superheavies, which is up to and including the LEviathans command centres, which have void shields. Given that IIRC the Leviathans are not MASSSIVELY larger than a superheavy (to my knowledge) it should not be implausible for superheavies to mount void shields as well (or the plasma reactors to power t hem.) In fact, given the Shadowsword, ,its almost likely (to power its titan-killign weapons.)

Alternately, they may be equipped with powerfields.


Page 21

When the way is clear, the Marauders drop from the skies with a deafening roar of quad ramjets. AS they reach their target they uleash a salvo of missiles and battle cannon fire, ripping aparrt armoured formations and mowing down infantry. When no Marauders are available, the Thunderbolt is quite capable of making attack runs itself, strafing the enemy with autocannon shells.

Description of the Marauder fighter. Curiously, they are described as being armed with "battle cannon" and seem to cover a "anti-armour" and "anti-infantry" role (both wtih missiles and cannon.)

Page 21

he had been the one who christened them smokers because of their oily black contrails
...

Sure enough the Ork fighters, trailing their distinctive fossil fuel emissions, dived even ore sharply to follow him.

Ork fighters, much like otehr aspects of their tech (like their missiles) use fossil fuel engines. One presumes that such engines are.. "enhanced" in some fashion if they are used in space. (we also know the Orks use fissionables in their Ttians and such.)

Page 21

An island appeared on the scanners: it was only twenty klicks away.

...

Ferocious G-forces crushed his body again and for a moment he almost blacked out.

Fighters having scanners, but not any sort of overt inertial damping.

Page 22

While the might of the Imperial Guard is often compared to a huge hammer blow, the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes are an accurate, decisive fighting forcec.

The comparison of the Guard to the Space Marines seem to vary dpeending on the edition and the book/game you're talking about (regular vs epic, etc.) Some sources put Space Marines as being a sledgehammer as well.


Page 22

They [space marines] fight with surgical precision, using their swift Rhinos and Thunderhawks to strike at the heartt of the enemy, eradicating their high command and capturing vital installations. THey are also excellent terror-troops.

..

The Space Marine's tanks are geared towards this role also, with the rapid Predator and hulking Land Raider battle tanks making up the bulk of their armoured columsn. Even their artillery, the Whirlwinds, are rapid-moving

Description of Space Marine armoued vehicles.


Page 22

Their [space Marine] senses are far better than a normal man's. Their reactions are lightning-fast, while their hyper-tensile muscles make them strong enough to snap an ordinary human in two. This physical superiority is combined with extensive indoctrination and hypnotic therapy, ensuring each Space Marine is unswervingly loyal to his Chapter and the Emperor.

Space marine training and capabilities.

[Shortie]

As I recall (mentioned by White Rabbit once) the Imperium once had a "battlecannon" varient of the Chimaera, which may be close to a "tank" version. (which may be similar to the "variable role" nature of the Stryker APC, though IMHO the Chimera is better.)

There were the Chimerro with reloadable Hunter-killer missiles, Chimedon with Battlecannon (logically a Conqueror cannon), and Chimerax with quad autocannons, but not the same class as Hydra ones. Nowadays there are a bunch more variants from Forgeworld, which makes total sense.

A Hydra's rapid-firing quad autocannon fills the sky with a seething curtain of flak to bring down flyers, or shred opposing grround forces if they get too close.

Hydras are "dual purpose" anti-air/anti-personnel weapons ( as we have seen in novels). Its not likely that these "autocannons"a re "tank grade", but probably smaller (though they MAY be tank grade...)

One thing that I am curious about, is why the Hydras have never bothred with lascannon/multilasers for point defense. Presumably there is nothing tsopping them (traditional Chimeras were frequently armed with multilasers as standard, IIRC) and ther ewould be nothing stopping it, but still...

40K aircraft are so tough Multilasers are a bit weak, and Lascannons have too low a ROF. That said there must be variants which use laser weapons, but on the ROF\firepower curve they're going to be pretty much the same as the autocannons, because that's what's needed.

These mammoth machines (superheavy tanks) carry a prodigious amount of firepower in the case of the multi-trureted Baneblade, or the huge, long range plasma or laser cannon of the Shadowsword.
...
Though seldom used in offensives Leviathans carry their own formidable rmament and are heavily protected by void shields.

Superheavies, which is up to and including the LEviathans command centres, which have void shields. Given that IIRC the Leviathans are not MASSSIVELY larger than a superheavy (to my knowledge) it should not be implausible for superheavies to mount void shields as well (or the plasma reactors to power t hem.) In fact, given the Shadowsword, ,its almost likely (to power its titan-killign weapons.)

Alternately, they may be equipped with powerfields.

Gotta say I've never seen a reference to that, I've always had the impression they were pretty much full of what they've already got. Baneblade-class superheavies seem fairly standard tech, just enlarged versions of normal tanks, whereas Leviathans and such are a big step up in sophistication, normally made by Squats or the Ad Mech, and hence getting stuff like Void Shields.

[andrewgpaul]

A few notes on

This may or may not have been in the context of game mechanics (the "Epic" sclae stuff tends to switch between "in universe" and "in game" randomly at times.) but the implication would seem to be that autocannon (or at least the higher end verisons of it) are only a bit more powerful than a Battle cannon (several times more powerful.)

You sure about that? The quote you posted implies a pair of autocannon are equivalent to a single battlecannon. In any case, that quote is likely to be 'game rules' rather than in-universe material. It was the designers' justification for making the game so simplified compared with Space Marine. I believe the Epic: Armageddon rulebook treats all the Leman Russ variants as the one vehicle in the main rules, but gives the option of using the different stats for each type in the appendix at the back.

As for Hydra autocannon, the forgeworld books, plus other fluff and the model designs themselves indicate that each individual gun is superior to a standard autocannon - they're equivalent in firepower but have a longer range. Autocannon in general are superior to multilasers, presumably why the Hydra uses the former.

The Deathstrike launch vehicle is now a Chimera chassis variant (in previous editions, it was a wholly separate vehicle, like the Hellhound, but it still wasn't a superheavy vehicle). The missile itself is an odd beast; it apparently works fine as both an ICBM and a tactical missile. When it was first introudiced, it was basically a self-propelled launch rail for a Titan missile, like the ones you described above. (talking of which, you missed the Harpoon missile, which could take over an enemy titan. Even more impressively, it could take over Eldar and Ork Titans, despite those being controlled by psychic impulses and lots of shouting, respectively )

Marauders have changed a bit since Epic 40,000. The model referred to in that book had a battlecannon as its main armament, as opposed to the current version, with autocannon as its forward-firing guns.
The Leviathan is substantially larger than a Baneblade; about the same ground area, but over three times as tall. Presumably that's what gives it the space for Void Shield generators, as well as all its C3 gear.

[Luzifer's right hand]

An interesting question is imho how for from a star ships must emerge from the warp. There are many different ETA given in the WH40k books I read and there are always other explanations why it took a ship days to reach a planet.

However in Flight of the Eisenstein the Phalanx was heading for Terra as fast as possible.

Flight of the Eisenstein

Several light minutes inside the orbit of Eri, the Phalanx exploded from a warp gate with violent concussion, sending sheets of exotic lightning radiating out and away into the void. Delicate sensory devices dotting the surface of the tenth planet registered the new arrival and immediately communicated reports to relay stations on Pluto and Uranus, where in turn they would be sent onward by astropath to Terra and her dominions. The return of the Imperial Fists to humanity’s cradle was long overdue. By rights there should have been celebrations and great ceremony on many of the outer colonies of the solar system to mark it. Instead, the Phalanx came in with speed and ruthless purpose, not in a stately cruise around the solar system’s outlying worlds.

The mammoth craft did not fly the pennants and banners associated with the triumphant arrival of a heroic vessel. Instead, the colour on her masts and the laser lamps about the Phanalx’s circumfrence were lit for urgency. Patrol ships made way, no captain daring to challenge the Master of the Imperial Fists for his haste. Drives flaring like captured stars, the fortress-vessel passed in through the ragged edge of the Oort Cloud at three-quarters the speed of light, down into the place of the ecliptic, crossing the orbit of Neptune in a flicker of dazzling radiation.

The edge of the inner Oort cloud is about 50 AU from the sun.
Eris aphelion distance is 97.56 AU and the perihelion distance is 37.77 AU.
The flight of the Eisenstein was around 007.M31-012.M31 [30007-30012] (the timelines i found on the net are not fully identical...).
Around that time the dwarf planet should be closer to perihelion(around 30092) than aphelion(around 30369).

50 AU or 6.9 light hours is not that far from a star and most imperial ships should be able to traverse such a distance in less than a day.
Are there sources which suggest that ships can emerge from the warp closer to a star?

[NecronLord]

The Slann aren't the Old Ones. In old fluff, the Old Ones were called the 'Old Slann' but they're definately a distinct culture, though they're possibly a similar race. The Slann stuff for WFB now reffers to 'Old Ones' as the gods of the Slann, too.

[Connor MacLeod]

40K aircraft are so tough Multilasers are a bit weak, and Lascannons have too low a ROF. That said there must be variants which use laser weapons, but on the ROF\firepower curve they're going to be pretty much the same as the autocannons, because that's what's needed.

Not all lascannon/multilasers are made the same, however. I'd imagine there are powerful "multilaser" mounts that could match a Hydra in terms of power (a Regiment had platforms like that in "His Last command" IIRC.)

Gotta say I've never seen a reference to that, I've always had the impression they were pretty much full of what they've already got. Baneblade-class superheavies seem fairly standard tech, just enlarged versions of normal tanks, whereas Leviathans and such are a big step up in sophistication, normally made by Squats or the Ad Mech, and hence getting stuff like Void Shields.

In "Crimson Tears" the Guard general commanding the Ground forces is using a modified Baneblade as a command vehicle - in addition to having all the communications and detection gear that allows him to coordinate a citywide offensive (along with connectison to his orbital support artillery and whatnot) he had his own office IIRC) and the baneblade had its own autoloading servitors as well as auto-targeting weaponry (well servitor controlled.) And IIRC a machine spirit.

Leviathans are frigging huge, yes, but they also are much more versatile. not only do they have a fucking huge command and control capability, as well as Electronic surveillance (drones, satellites, etc.) It also carries over a company of troops in addition to the crew complements and the Guard officers and their staff. Plus, it also has a fucking huge Doomsday gun, battle cannon, ,lascannons, as well as the antipersonnel heavy bolters and arguably thicker armor. I don't thing the size difference is THAT great once you factor out some of the C&C and troop carrying capabilities (and probably the Doomsday gun.)

Given tht a shadowsword (having an anti-titan weapon) probaly needs a palsma reactor (or equivalent) to power it, again I see no reason they couldn't carry powerfields or void shields like the other superheavies.
Thanks could be shielded in earlier editions, after all.

[Connor MacLeod]

The Slann aren't the Old Ones. In old fluff, the Old Ones were called the 'Old Slann' but they're definately a distinct culture, though they're possibly a similar race. The Slann stuff for WFB now reffers to 'Old Ones' as the gods of the Slann, too.

Okay, I stand corrected.

[Connor MacLeod]

You sure about that? The quote you posted implies a pair of autocannon are equivalent to a single battlecannon. In any case, that quote is likely to be 'game rules' rather than in-universe material. It was the designers' justification for making the game so simplified compared with Space Marine. I believe the Epic: Armageddon rulebook treats all the Leman Russ variants as the one vehicle in the main rules, but gives the option of using the different stats for each type in the appendix at the back.

Or, like autocannon, there are different kinds of battlecannon. I am avoiding game stats definitely, and try to minimzie game rules when I can be sure. The problem is, however, that often "fluff' details are mixed in with rules (usually as an explanation/justificaiton or some such. One example is the "instant death" rules which describe how such deaths could be envisioned, such as vaporization.)

We already know from a number of sources that battle cannon are bound to be many times more powerful than autocannon, even assuming the "Autocannon = tank cannon" some sources suggest. At worst its simply a lower limit confirmation of what we already know/

As for Hydra autocannon, the forgeworld books, plus other fluff and the model designs themselves indicate that each individual gun is superior to a standard autocannon - they're equivalent in firepower but have a longer range. Autocannon in general are superior to multilasers, presumably why the Hydra uses the former.

Vehicle design rules in the "Chapter approved" allow for weapons to be more powerful, have longer or shorter barrels (and htus have longer/shorter ranges, etc.).

AS for multilaser < autocannon, I don't see why that's neccesarily the case. You wouldn't nececsarily need a high ROF (like you do for a hydra) with a laser-based anti-air defense - the speed of the beam makes that less of an issue, and if lascannon can damage/ punch through tank armour, they can damage aircraft (starfighters are another story, as are space capable variants of atmospheric fighters/bombers.)

And again, given the "anti tank" capability of lascannon, I don't see them being more difficult to mount/power than an autocannon either (given they can be fitted and powered in a Russ in a fairly compact form.)

Marauders have changed a bit since Epic 40,000. The model referred to in that book had a battlecannon as its main armament, as opposed to the current version, with autocannon as its forward-firing guns.

Battlecanon on aircraft is not a new thing (seeThunderhawk.) At most this just tells us "battle cannon" can vary in size/power like autocannon do, and there may be some overlap, the way stubbers and autocannon seem to overlap somewhat.

On the other hand, given how stupidly durable Russes are, a fighter might very well need to mount a tank-calibre gun to have a hope of taking one out (without using a las-weapon or missile, at least.) And its cecrtainly not the first craft to be implied to mount battle cannon (see the Thunderhawk.)

The Leviathan is substantially larger than a Baneblade; about the same ground area, but over three times as tall. Presumably that's what gives it the space for Void Shield generators, as well as all its C3 gear.

Except Leviathans have far more than just that involved, and the picture in the Armies of the Imperium" guide don't give it quite the full "volume' its height implies. Leviathans also act as troop and command staff carriers as well as the C3 bit, and have that huge-ass doomsday gun as well as battle cannon, lascannon and all the rest.

[Connor MacLeod]

An interesting question is imho how for from a star ships must emerge from the warp. There are many different ETA given in the WH40k books I read and there are always other explanations why it took a ship days to reach a planet.

In general, "Chaos Child" Implies billions of km. Eye of Terror implies tens of millions. It really depends heavily on the gravity well of the system's star (and possibly number of planets.) Some are very small, some are very large.

Are there sources which suggest that ships can emerge from the warp closer to a star?

One in "bleeding chalice" - an Inquisitor's ship does so shortly after breaking orbit, but this is probably either rare/unique tech (enough to warrant being archeotech - the entire vessel was kinda unique anyhow), or its an outlier.

In theory it should be possible to do "in warp" jumping - Daemons can be summoned from the warp into realspace inside a gravity well given the right circumstances, objects like vortex warheads and warp missiels (objects that travel through the warp to strike targets) and of course teleporters work while in the warp. And there's the Warp Spider's teleportation abilities as well as the webway.

In practice, it doesn't seem to have been worked out in "large scale" applications by anyone yet, or if it has, the costs of doing it are prohibitive.

[Connor MacLeod]

Finishing off the rest of the "armies book", part 2

PAge 22

The boltgun is an effective firearm in most hands, but whe wielded by a specially-trained Spacee marine it can cut down a swathe of enemies with a single burst.

I'm not sure what qualifies as a "swathe", but it implies a rather high rate of fire from a boltgun.

Page 22

Each Space Marine wears ceramite and plasteel power armour which interfaces directly with his black carapace bio-enhancement via needle-like neural interfaces. The armour becomes a part of the Space Marine, a second skin with powered actuators, digital senses, and an inch-thick ceramite exterior.

Description of Space Marine power armour. Of note is that its composed of "plasteel and ceramite" and an "inch thick" ceramite exterior, which gives us an approximate idea of how thick the armour is (though since its only the ceramite compnent and doesnt include the plasteel one, it could and probably is a bit thicker.)

In any case, the stated thickness is a significant find and can allow measurement/quantification of spacee marine armour (thickness, mass, etc.)

Page 22

Their tactical dreadnought armour is like a small tank, forged millenia ago at the birth of the Imperium by technologies which have long since been lost.

"Like a small tank" may give one an idea about its resilience, since it cannot possibly mass as much as even a small tank/APC (not even Dreadnoughts do, and they're virrtually mini-tanks too.)
Then again, what qualifies as a "small tank?" in 40K?

Page 22-23

On the other end of the scale are the recruits of the tenth Comapny, the Scouts. Their training is incomplete and their armour is not the same as a normal Space Marine, for they lack th e final implant neccessary to interact with proper power armour.

Space Marine scouts. No idea what their "armour" comprises, but my guess would be carapace (unpowered equivalent of powered armour, basically.) They probably have better protection than normal humans wearing power armour, though, because of their greater size/strength.

Page 23

In contrast to these rapid tactics are the more static Rapier Laser Destroyer and Tarantula Multi-cannon support wepaons. These semi-intelligent, cyborg-operated gun platforms are best used in a defensive role

Space Marines seem to make use of Rapiers and Tarantulas in earlier sources to supplement their smaller numbers. I assume "cyborg" means "servitor" in modern parlance, though Tarantulas are computer controlled, not servitor crewed. I'd just conclude they use a variety of robotic and servitor-crewed Heavy and Support weapons.

Page 23

The huge Land Raider fufills this role for the First company, its large armoured hull capable of transporting even the bulky Terminators. Its quad-linked lascannon also give a powerful punch against enemy tanks and war engines, providing heavy firepower to supplement the Space Marine squads it is transporting.

Land Raiders are used in the First Company - the rest making use of Rhinos (which escapes me, because the Chimera seems like a much better vehicle.


Page 23

The Predator mounts a variety of different weapons, mixing the tank-busting lascnanon with the anti-personnel autocannon and heavy bolters.

Predators (this would be my guess before they were split up into variants like the Annihilator and destructor) carry "antipersonnel" autocannon and
"anti-tank" lascannons.

Page 23

The Razorback is a relatively new addition ot the armouries of the Adeptus Astartes. It is a compromise between the troop-carrying Rhino and the gun platform of the Predator. It has the capacity to carry a five-man combat squad of Space marines, backed up with a lascannon and twin plasma guns.

Basically it seems like the Razorback is the Space Marine version of the "Chimera" just with plasma guns (which admittedly would add alot of firepower to them, and probably reduce the "tendency to explode" problem.)

Page24

Titans are immense fighting machines, towering monstrosities up to two hundred feet tall.

...

Protected by banks of void shield generators, Titans can soak up damage that would smash apart tank companies and infantry regiments.

Titans in this source can be up to 60-70 meters tall, rather than the 30-40 meter tall from earlier.

The resilience implied by their void shields implies that Titans are orders of magnitude tougher than tanks (minimum of kt range, given melta/multimelta output)

Page 24

Each Legion is based on a forge world, and the forge worlds are spread throughout the Imperium so that at any given time at least one Titan Legion can respond to the call to arms.

Given my previous estimates on Forge Worlds, there are probably at least many thousands/tens of thousands of Legions, minimum. This might imply hundreds of thousands or millions of Titans.

Page 28

The Warlord is the mainstay of the Titan Legions. Its four massive weapons systems give it immense firepower and tactical flexibility, while its metres thick armour and six void shield generators make it a virtually impregnable fortress.

Warlord titans have "metres thick" armour and four major weapons systems (Lasers, plasma, projectile/bolter, and missiles IIRC.)

Page 29

Imperator Titans, largest of the massive Emperor class, are colossal war machines - mobile strongholds with enough weaponry to level a city/ They are used to spearhead attacks against enemy fortifications and form strongpoints around which the Imperial Army can muster. In their armoured bastions a whole detachment of troops can shelter from an enemy's fire before launching a well-timed assault to capture a vital position or mop up any survivors of the Imeprator's destructive salvoes.

Imperator Titans can "Level a city" (kiloton to megaton firepower at least, possibly gigaton+ if we consider Hive cities) They also have a troop carrying capability and basically act as mobile "cover" from enemy fire on a battlefield.


Page 41

Things start slowly, the incidents of raids increase, the Orks start selecting their war leaders and the Mekboyz begin construction of strange weapons and vehicles without really knowing why, or where the ideas come from.

This isn't specific, but I'm speculating that the WAAAGH effect acts like some sort of subconscious astropath-like communication effect, providing the coordination/organization (selecting Warleaders) as well as guiding the Mekboyz in their designing/engineering efforts. The source of the ideas? No clue. It may beh the Ork Gods, some sort of Tyranid-like Hive mind (or possibly the Ork Gods ARE a like a hive mind), or it may be from the souls/consciousnesses of dead Orks long gone (Perhaps even the Brain Boyz still exerting influencee from beyond the grave.)

Goofy as a concept are, the Orks seem to be the closest contemporary to the human Imperium that exists (at least they would be if they were more unified). Better odds than the Tau at least.

Page 41

Luckily the billions of Orks spread throughout the galaxy spend so much time fighting each other that their desire for battle is generally sated unless they find themselves faced with an obvious threat. If all the Orks were ever to band together in a single Waaagh nothing in the galaxy would have the power to stop them.

"Billions" of Orks, but this is probably a dramatic underestimate, in the sense of the "trrillions" of humans in the Imperium, unless the "billion" context refers to the 1e12 number rather than 1e12 (IE what is now implied as "trillion" nowadays.)

Also the infamous "if the Orks ever united they would overwhelm anything in the galaxy" bit. This probably indicates their actual numbers are closer to trillions/quadrillions in totality (matching or possibly even exceeding the current number of Tyranids in the galaxy. Although its possible the total number of Hive fleets are not included.)

Page 44

Orks are seven feet tall when stretched to their full height, and almost twice as broad as a human.

Dimensions of an ork. This almost certainly implies they are also physically heavier given comparable body density to a human (something debatable givne the Uplifting Primer, but that source also claims Orks are weaker than humans...)

Page 46

Another type of Ork artillery is the Pulsa rokkit. These are fired into the middle of enemy formations and send out a huge pusla field which knocks troops to their knees, hurls tanks sideways and generally halts the enemy advance.

Pulsa rokkit - forcefield-based explosive, along the lines of a Star Wars seismic charge, but doesn't seem to be as directly "Destructive" - more like an incapacitation/disruption weapon.

PAge 47

Most Flyboyz are speed freeks who just can't go fast enough while on land and so take to the sky for the exhilarating feeling of plunging groundwards at the speed of sound!

Implies Ork fighters are at least tran-sonic capable (but probably are supersonic like Imperium fighters.)

Page 58

in the dim past, the Eldar were a flourishing race. Their technology allowed them to reign over a significant portion of the galaxy, rivalling the size and strength of the Imperium.

The Eldar in their prime "rivalled the size and strength" of the Imperium, implying trillions/quadrilions of Eldar and millions of worlds. As I recall the Eldar Empire was largely centered around the Eye of Terror, though (which was why when Slaanesh was born the vast majority of their worlds were lost). Approximately that size (accounting for fringe worlds that did manage to escape the Eye, colonies, and possibly the Exodites) would stil probably qualify as "significant", though in terms of territory they were much more densly packed in than the Imperium (which while territorrially huge, also encompasses vast tracks of empty/wild space between inhnabited systems.)

By that same token, this would imply the Eye of Terror could potentially possess at least as many habitable worlds as the Imperium does (population will depend on many other factors, however.)

Page 59

A vast area of space, thousands of light years across, was sucked into the warp by this psychic implosion, creating the immense Eye of Terror which is now the haven of billions of Chaos followers.

The Eye of Terror (and thus the area of space in the Eldar Empire consumed when Slaanesh was born, was "thousands of light ears across.

The implied population is "billions" which again may be an underestimate, unless billion = 1e12 (Trillion) like wiht the Orks.

Page 65

Lastly there are the huge Vampire raiders. Favoured by Eldar pirates, these descend from orbit at many times the speed of sound, cleaving through the skies with th ease of a bird of prey.

Eldar Vampires are at least supersonic, though the 'many times the speed of soudn" and "descending from orbit" bit implies hypersonic/hyper-velocity speeds (Mach 5+, possibly 10+ km/s)

Page 65

They are unmatched in other ways too, using image-distorting holo-fields to misdirect enemy shots rather than void shields and power fields which attempt to shunt off enemy attacks with raw energy.

Eldar use power-fields to deflect (redirect) attacks as well as holofields to confuse targeting systems. I generally presume that their vehicles and fighters/starships use powerfields as a defensiev measure (and variations are implied in alot of other sourcs) but this is never represented in the actual game simply as game-balancing, because there really is no logical reason for them not to, especially on starships.

Likewise, we can conclude (obviously) that void shields and powerfields are separate defensive mechanisms (power fields seem to be deflection/redirection devices, while void shields have an abosprtion/retransmission ability as well.) Likewise, I would assume the Imperium could use powerfields as well as void shields.

Page 65

Eldar titans are protected by a holo-field which is projected from wings mounted atop their carapace. This fractures the image of the Titan making it appear to be a swirling, dancing cloud of coloured motes. It is very hard to target an Eldar Titan with any degee of certainty and even the most advanced tracking sstems are thwarted by the swirling energies of a holo-field.

Holo fields seem to be like the Minbari Stealth in B5, but less sucky and more colorful. And, they also work optically.

Page 79

They [daemons] are immune to all earthly toxins and poisons and their utterly alien bodies can simply ignore many weapons which would sear, burn, crush and maim mortal beings.

The poison immunity makes some sense, although the "ignoring many kinds of weapons" bit I take iwth a grain of salt nowadays, given various novels where relatively minor daemonic entities are fucked over by even lasweapons and even some powerful ones (IE Grey Knights novels) This may depend on the Daemon and the mechanism of defense (rapid healing, some sort of psychic aura/forcefield, etc.)


Page 84

And then when their warped enemy were in range the first of the Warhounds launched a salvo of searing plasma energy from the red-hot nozzles of its blastguns. Still a quarter of a mile away, steam geysered where the plasma ripped into ice and snow and a Doom Blaster exploded in a ball of crimson fire.
...

.. the Banelord let fire with its smouldering Havoc missiles, the blasts ripping through the Ultramarines lines, melting the brave soldiers inside their power armour where they stood.

Warhound titan weapons have a range of at least a quarter mile (toher weapons seem to have less than that in this case, although it might be for other reasons)

Havoc missile melts an unkonwn number of Ultramarines Space MArines inside their armour, this would imply GJ range missiles at least.


Page 84

With a searing hiss a blast of laser energy melted the ice in front of a column of Predators, obscuring the trundling tanks in a pall of steam.

No idea how "big" a column of predators is (3-4?) but it implies that the area melted was at least 10+ meters wide (possibly diameter.) Assuming it is 10-15 m in diameter the energy output for melting is at least 100-120 GJ, possibly as much as 800 GJ if we go with 15 m diameter.

If we go for vaporization the number increases by a factor of five (500 GJ to 4 TJ) for the same values, approximately. But this is mostly conjecture anyhow. Its probably safe to say the laser

We don't know the source of the laser - my guess would be a Titan, though it may also be a Predator or some other vehicle.

Page 84

Away to his right another Banelord fired one salvo after another at a squadron of Leman Russ battle tanks blasting great chunks out of the ice field and overturning the vehicles in the process.

Banelord's weapons create shockwaves that can flip over Russes. This implies a fairly powerful high explosive given it probably requires more than 5-6 psi to topple a Russ. It is not known (but possible) that the tanks survived this mostly intact, implying something about their durability against "area" pressure attacks.

Page 88

The Subjugator [titan] embodies the essence of Slaanesh: lithe, swift, and deadly. Its hellslicers rip apart foe manyn times its own size while the psychically charged cannon leave a trail of charred wrecks and ashen corpses wherever they are fired.

the ability to incinerate multiple targets implies GJ range energies minimum (probably much higher, however.)

Page 95

Each organism within the Tyranid Hive Fleet is a living being, with its own consciousness. This may be as crude as a virus' need to reproduce itself or as complex as a fully developed sentient warrior's, with its own instincts reactions and interpretations. Each of these untold billions of minds form one massive sentience known as the Hive Mind.

"untold billions" of Tyranid creatures form a hive mind. Again billions is either a dramatic understatement or referring to 1e12+ tyranids (or possibly both.) Then again, this seems to be referring merely to a single hive fleet.

Page 98

The most numerous Hive Mind synapses are the Tyranid Warriors. These six-limbed creatures stand over twice the height of a man.

Tyranid warriors are thus at least 3-4 metres tall.

Page 98

With their four massive scythe-like claws, Carnifexes can tear apart tanks and sweep through whole units of the enemy. They can also spit forth balls of bio-plasma which explod with devastating effect, blasting vehicles and searing troops.

Armament and capabilities of Carnifex.

Page 99

In battle the Biovore vomits forth cloud sof Spore Mines which drift down onto the enemy,moving along in the breeze until they detect a non-Tyranid lifeform. Then they explode, shredding the target with shrapnel-like chitin debris, as well as causing massive disruption with a shower of alkalines, viruses, and acido-compounds.

Tyranid artillery, both providing fragmentation as well as biologicla warfare effects. Seems to be mainly antipersonnel though.

Page 100

.. the spine of an Exocrine sprouts a massive bio-cannon, which is powered by the muscular contraction of the head frill. This enables the Exocrine to hurla lethal chitin projectiel long distances, smashing apart the enemy even as the close combat Tyranid constructs close in for the kill.

Seems like either a tank or artillery platform, but deisgned for anti-vehicle usage. No idea on the power fo the weapon, though.

Page 101

Tyranid war engines are monstrous composite creatures, the sizeof buildings. The unique anatomy of the Hierodule and Hierophant bio-titans allows them to clamber over buildings, wade through rivers, and trample across forests with ease.

Bio-Titans are "building" sized, whatever this means.

[andrewgpaul]

As for Hydra autocannon, the forgeworld books, plus other fluff and the model designs themselves indicate that each individual gun is superior to a standard autocannon - they're equivalent in firepower but have a longer range. Autocannon in general are superior to multilasers, presumably why the Hydra uses the former.

Vehicle design rules in the "Chapter approved" allow for weapons to be more powerful, have longer or shorter barrels (and htus have longer/shorter ranges, etc.).

Er, yes. That's what I was talking about.

As for multilaser < autocannon, I don't see why that's neccesarily the case. You wouldn't nececsarily need a high ROF (like you do for a hydra) with a laser-based anti-air defense - the speed of the beam makes that less of an issue, and if lascannon can damage/ punch through tank armour, they can damage aircraft (starfighters are another story, as are space capable variants of atmospheric fighters/bombers.)

And again, given the "anti tank" capability of lascannon, I don't see them being more difficult to mount/power than an autocannon either (given they can be fitted and powered in a Russ in a fairly compact form.)

You're right, game mechanics aren't really what we're discussing here, but they do allow some rough comparisons; 'on average', autocannon are superior to multilasers. You could use lascannon in the anti-aircraft role (Tthe Eldar do, after a fashion), but then you'd lose the secondary anti-infantry role of the Hydra (and of the Hunter and Skyray too, I presume). Or, it could simply be down to the fact there's no 'Mars-approved' STC template for a laser-firing anti-aircraft weapon.

Marauders have changed a bit since Epic 40,000. The model referred to in that book had a battlecannon as its main armament, as opposed to the current version, with autocannon as its forward-firing guns.

Battlecanon on aircraft is not a new thing (seeThunderhawk.) At most this just tells us "battle cannon" can vary in size/power like autocannon do, and there may be some overlap, the way stubbers and autocannon seem to overlap somewhat.

On the other hand, given how stupidly durable Russes are, a fighter might very well need to mount a tank-calibre gun to have a hope of taking one out (without using a las-weapon or missile, at least.) And its cecrtainly not the first craft to be implied to mount battle cannon (see the Thunderhawk.)

Quite possibly. All I was doing was pointing out that the description of the Marauder has changed since that edition of Epic. You use of 'Curiously' did imply confusion between that description and the descriptions in the later fiction, that's all. Presumably the battlecannon-armed Marauder is another pattern, similar to the Destroyer variant.

The Leviathan is substantially larger than a Baneblade; about the same ground area, but over three times as tall. Presumably that's what gives it the space for Void Shield generators, as well as all its C3 gear.

Except Leviathans have far more than just that involved, and the picture in the Armies of the Imperium" guide don't give it quite the full "volume' its height implies. Leviathans also act as troop and command staff carriers as well as the C3 bit, and have that huge-ass doomsday gun as well as battle cannon, lascannon and all the rest.

The Leviathan's transport capacity isn't that great - substantially less than the Gorgon assault transporter.

Also, pardon my stupidity, but I can't find any image of a Leviathan in those Epic books. Got a page reference? Also, what is the board policy on artwork vs miniatures regarding depictions of the universe? IIRC, GW's stance was that the miniatures came first, but I can't find a specific reference to support that view.

[Lost Soal]

A few extra bits which have come along since the source your using.

Land Raider Crusader

The Land Raider Crusader is one of the most potent machines of destruction in the Imperium. Space Marines and Space Marine Terminators may use the Land Raider as a transport.

The Crusader variant of the Land Raider was developed by the Black Templars during the Jerulas Crusade, to aid them in the numerous sieges which they had to fight in order to reconquer the hive world.

As news of the Crusaders’ success spread, other Space Marine Chapters requested information regarding their remodelling of the Land Raider, and in 763.M39 the Crusader pattern became approved by Mars (not that this had stopped many Chapters using it beforehand).

The Crusader is designed to smash into the enemy lines, disgorging the Space Marines into the heart of their adversaries. Its numerous short-ranged weapons allow the Crusader to weaken the enemy before the assault is launched and to provide a torrent of firepower to support its cargo once they are in combat.

It took a while for this varient to be "approved" ay the Ad Mech, not the the rest of the Chapters cared about or were willing to wait for approval.

Land Raider Terminus

Code: Select all

The Terminus Ultra pattern of the Land Raider is the ultimate in Space Marine anti-armour vehicles. The Terminus Ultra forfeits its troop carrying capability in order to mount a battery of lascannons capable of punching through power fields and the thickest armour. The huge power build-up generated when a Terminus Ultra fires can cause irrevocable damage to the vehicle's systems, and so it is only used when all other options have been exhausted. Only when the largest armoured targets are encountered are these venerable machines deployed from the Armorium. Against the massive war engines of the Emperor's foes, the Terminus Ultra is the Space Marines' surest weapon. With a single salvo a Terminus Ultra can cripple a super-heavy tank, disable a Chaos Titan or destroy an Ork Stompa.

Part of the new Apocalypse supplement to 40K, when the History Of The Land Raider fluff mentions Land Raiders as being one of the few tanks capable of stopping Titans, I suspect that this is the variant it now refers to. Which makes a lot more sense quite frankly.

[Shortie]

40K aircraft are so tough Multilasers are a bit weak, and Lascannons have too low a ROF. That said there must be variants which use laser weapons, but on the ROF\firepower curve they're going to be pretty much the same as the autocannons, because that's what's needed.

Not all lascannon/multilasers are made the same, however. I'd imagine there are powerful "multilaser" mounts that could match a Hydra in terms of power (a Regiment had platforms like that in "His Last command" IIRC.)

Logically yes, though I don't see them as being standard, because part of the whole STC system is that they've got problems with modifying weapons out of fairly limited bands.

Gotta say I've never seen a reference to that, I've always had the impression they were pretty much full of what they've already got. Baneblade-class superheavies seem fairly standard tech, just enlarged versions of normal tanks, whereas Leviathans and such are a big step up in sophistication, normally made by Squats or the Ad Mech, and hence getting stuff like Void Shields.

In "Crimson Tears" the Guard general commanding the Ground forces is using a modified Baneblade as a command vehicle - in addition to having all the communications and detection gear that allows him to coordinate a citywide offensive (along with connectison to his orbital support artillery and whatnot) he had his own office IIRC) and the baneblade had its own autoloading servitors as well as auto-targeting weaponry (well servitor controlled.) And IIRC a machine spirit.

Leviathans are frigging huge, yes, but they also are much more versatile. not only do they have a fucking huge command and control capability, as well as Electronic surveillance (drones, satellites, etc.) It also carries over a company of troops in addition to the crew complements and the Guard officers and their staff. Plus, it also has a fucking huge Doomsday gun, battle cannon, ,lascannons, as well as the antipersonnel heavy bolters and arguably thicker armor. I don't thing the size difference is THAT great once you factor out some of the C&C and troop carrying capabilities (and probably the Doomsday gun.)

Given tht a shadowsword (having an anti-titan weapon) probaly needs a palsma reactor (or equivalent) to power it, again I see no reason they couldn't carry powerfields or void shields like the other superheavies.
Thanks could be shielded in earlier editions, after all.

Didn't know all that, nice. The Baneblade as command centre would seem to need most of the guns stripping out to give all that room (in WWII they really did that with some tanks, then put wooden gun barrels on to make them harder to pick out), but why not. I'm pretty sure the Shadowsword does have a plasma reactor (Was it Forgeworld who did the cutaway model?), but I had the impression that was running pretty hard to power the gun.

Oh, and a random side point, the Warlord's 4 major weapon systems could be any of a ridiculous variety of toys, certainly including lasers, plasma, projectiles and missiles, but with close combat stuff as well, and almost total freedom in mixing and matching for specialisation.

The Leviathan is substantially larger than a Baneblade; about the same ground area, but over three times as tall. Presumably that's what gives it the space for Void Shield generators, as well as all its C3 gear.

Except Leviathans have far more than just that involved, and the picture in the Armies of the Imperium" guide don't give it quite the full "volume' its height implies. Leviathans also act as troop and command staff carriers as well as the C3 bit, and have that huge-ass doomsday gun as well as battle cannon, lascannon and all the rest.

The Leviathan's transport capacity isn't that great - substantially less than the Gorgon assault transporter.

Also, pardon my stupidity, but I can't find any image of a Leviathan in those Epic books. Got a page reference? Also, what is the board policy on artwork vs miniatures regarding depictions of the universe? IIRC, GW's stance was that the miniatures came first, but I can't find a specific reference to support that view.

This guy has some really cool armies, on the Squat page there's a Leviathan in the Ironbreaker Company pic, and one with a Cyclops and a couple of Colossi on the bottom left image (he's got a Capitol Imperialis as well on the Ultramarines page):
http://www.stephane.info/show.php?code=ne_squat

In 2nd Ed Epic a Leviathan could carry any Guard company, which could include 10 tanks or a trio of superheavies, so the model should really be about 4 times the size. Not convinced by that myself, but it should be able to cart a couple of hundred infantry around, compared to 50-odd for the Gorgon.

[andrewgpaul]

Oh, I know what the mini looks like - I have one in a box somewhere, along with that Squat vehicle with the starship main gun. I was wondering about the pic Connor was talking about. I'm still not sure which version of Epic he's looking at. the last lot of quotes came from Epic 40,000, but he refers to Armies of the Imperium, a 2nd edition sourcebook.

Epic 40,000 reckoned the Leviathan could carry 30 men, Epic Armageddon has again reduced this to 20. but then it says the same about the Gorgon. Perhaps the one the Death Korps of Krieg use is a different pattern

[andrewgpaul]

According to 2nd ed Epic, an Imperial Guard company was 160 men, just for comparison.

[Shadowtraveler]

Part of the new Apocalypse supplement to 40K, when the History Of The Land Raider fluff mentions Land Raiders as being one of the few tanks capable of stopping Titans, I suspect that this is the variant it now refers to. Which makes a lot more sense quite frankly.

Eight lascannons? Merciful Emperor, it makes the Baneblade seem inadequite.

[white_rabbit]

Part of the new Apocalypse supplement to 40K, when the History Of The Land Raider fluff mentions Land Raiders as being one of the few tanks capable of stopping Titans, I suspect that this is the variant it now refers to. Which makes a lot more sense quite frankly.

Eight lascannons? Merciful Emperor, it makes the Baneblade seem inadequite.

Don't worry, its been designed by a moron, your baneblade looks like a paragon of inspired design by comparison.

[Shadowtraveler]

Don't worry, its been designed by a moron, your baneblade looks like a paragon of inspired design by comparison.

It makes some sense though. Twin hurricane bolters plus ammo allows more troop space than four lascannons plus generator, so it's possible no troop space allows for eight plus generators...