40K misc numbers and analysis thread

[NecronLord]

Not sure if anyone's got it yet. But the Demons of Chaos codex talks about the warp being stirred by the 'thousands of trillions' of humans in the galaxy.

[Cykeisme]

Does anyone have hard numbers on the number of psykers given the honour of sacrificing themselves for humanity upon the Golden Throne and the Astronomican?
What about numbers on the probability of a psyker being born?

[NecronLord]

Does anyone have hard numbers on the number of psykers given the honour of sacrificing themselves for humanity upon the Golden Throne and the Astronomican?

A million a year are consumed by the emperor, according to the same source.

What about numbers on the probability of a psyker being born?

One in a billion I believe was the old number. Which meshes quite well with that.

[Zablorg]

Is there a fairly consistent idea on how effective melee weapons are against Astartes power armor? I just ask because I can't help but shake the feeling that even if a bunch of orks didn't get mowed down by their bolters, they're still going to get owned.

[NecronLord]

Ork choppers are magic. They're one of the most obvious examples of waaagh power. The ork swings, and his chopper cuts in the way he thinks it should, not the way physics says it should.

[Connor MacLeod]

Or the latent/colelctive psychic power of the Orks simply turns a regualr weapon into something like a power (or perhaps more appropriately a Force) weapon. Doesn't need to defy physics any more than 40K already does

[Imperial Overlord]

One in a billion I believe was the old number. Which meshes quite well with that.

Rogue Trader has 5% of the human population having psychic abilities of some sorts. The latter fluff indicates the majority of those will be latents (who might never be triggered) or wyrds (psykers with a minor but stable talent) who might never even realize they are psychic with a smaller percentage of stronger psykers. Only a tiny percentage of the stronger psykers will be epsilon rated or higher and that's before they are killed in apprehension or training.

That's the old numbers. I think the one in a billion refers to those who register at epsilon or higher.

[Connor MacLeod]

Faith and Fire gave an estimate of 1 per 100,000.

Does anyone have the source/page numbersf or the "1 in a billion" reference or the 5% one? I don't ever remember running acros sthem.

I'm also doubtful of the 1 in a billion thing being valid nowadays, unless we take this to mean the Imperium has many quintillions of humans (possible, but the ever expanding scope/size of the Imperium tends to argue fro alot MORE psykers given everything they're used for, nevermind those that get sacrificed.)

[NecronLord]

Or the latent/colelctive psychic power of the Orks simply turns a regualr weapon into something like a power (or perhaps more appropriately a Force) weapon. Doesn't need to defy physics any more than 40K already does

I believe the descriptions of choppers don't have any vapourisation, or killing stone dead, or any of the other effects... they're just choppier.

[Imperial Overlord]

The 5% is all over Rogue Trader, which as the most ancient source will be superseded by any newer material on the subject.

Page 138 is the first Rogue Trader reference I found to it.

[andrewgpaul]

The 5% thing is technically presented in the game rules. The precise wording is "Personalities have a 5% chance of having psychic abilities". Whether there's something 'special' about personalities, or that 5% can be extrapolated across the species is unclear. For comparison, Ogryns are not psychic, halflings and squats have a 3% chance, Eldar have a 75% chance and Orks a 2% chance. Mind you, this is before a lot of the core concepts of the setting were developed, so a pinch of salt is required.

[Imperial Overlord]

The 5% thing is technically presented in the game rules. The precise wording is "Personalities have a 5% chance of having psychic abilities". Whether there's something 'special' about personalities, or that 5% can be extrapolated across the species is unclear. For comparison, Ogryns are not psychic, halflings and squats have a 3% chance, Eldar have a 75% chance and Orks a 2% chance. Mind you, this is before a lot of the core concepts of the setting were developed, so a pinch of salt is required.

That's the tip of the iceburg, because that's referring only to developed psychic powers. Minor latents and wyrds were are far more common than full blown psykers and often escape detection. Then there are the astropaths to serve the Adeptus, Imperial Navy, Inquisition, and the various planets of the Imperium and the Inquisition. Add in all those die being taken and die in training and the all those who live marginal lives as seers and gangers and so forth and you have a rate of incidence of psyker births much higher than one in a billion.

[Connor MacLeod]

Or the latent/colelctive psychic power of the Orks simply turns a regualr weapon into something like a power (or perhaps more appropriately a Force) weapon. Doesn't need to defy physics any more than 40K already does

I believe the descriptions of choppers don't have any vapourisation, or killing stone dead, or any of the other effects... they're just choppier.

Vapourisation is, IMHO rare for power weapons, and the way power weapons tend to work varies quite abit. Sometimes its a tehcnobabble "disruption" field, sometimes it seems to be a thermal weapon (cauterization), sometimes it seems to be some sort of planar-field effect...

Its just a "power field" in a sense it does make the weapon sharper and perhaps more forceful.. or as you put it "choppier"

[Connor MacLeod]

That's the tip of the iceburg, because that's referring only to developed psychic powers. Minor latents and wyrds were are far more common than full blown psykers and often escape detection. Then there are the astropaths to serve the Adeptus, Imperial Navy, Inquisition, and the various planets of the Imperium and the Inquisition. Add in all those die being taken and die in training and the all those who live marginal lives as seers and gangers and so forth and you have a rate of incidence of psyker births much higher than one in a billion.

It probably is a bit more, given that even baseline humanity seems to have some un-tapped psychic potential (at least most of the time) - a low level version of what the Orks and Eldar can do, I think. Wyrds and latents are next up... and so on.

I'd be ab it leery of the 5% bit, though, since If I am remembering what you are talking about, its from teh dice rolling charts (percentile die). And even then, there STILL is Faitha nd Fire to consider.

The specific stats I DO remember suggested that 90% of all psykers (in rogue trader) that weren't given off to the Emperor were astropaths.

[Connor MacLeod]

A (small) update on the Tau codex stuff.. I still need to get back to covering the tactics.. but I dont know if I plan to do that.. its all pretty self explanatory by this point really. I'll have to go back and re-read. lol

Page 13

This [Death of a beloved Ethereal] does not reuslt in them rushing into hand-to-hand combat. Instead they advance steadily while pouring an unceasing volume of fire into the enemy. Such an attack will only be halted by the expenditure of all ammunition.

Apparently even the Tau can be driven into a sort of berserk state, if a long-ranged one. (which the Fire Warrior novel hints at as well.) It's interesting to see that this can be triggered by an Ethereal's death, this tends to put interesting connotations on the interactions between ethereals and other castes. (the word "Brainwashing" comes to mind.)

Page 14

"One of their light walkers carried a weapon of lethal effect. It fired a form of ultra-high velocity projectile. I saw one of our tanks after having been hit by it. There was a small hole punched in either flank - one the projectile's entry point, the other its exist. The tiny munition had passed through the vehicle with such speed that everrything within the hull not welded down had been sucked out through the exit hole. Including the crew. We never identified their bodies, for all that remained of them was a red stain upon the ground, extending some twenty metres from the wreck.

Effect of a TAu railgun weapon. I think that there might be some hyperbole taken with this, given that I don't think its possible for that to be true, and I'm not sure the obsever could actually tell what happened inside, unless massive amount of pulverization to a fine mist (or outright vaporization) occured.

If by "walker" this means some Tau battlesuit, its probably the Broadside battlesuit, which masses some 3.8 tons (as per IA3) Assuming they brace the suit before firing (they're not very mobile, we might infer between 3800-7800 kg*m/s worth of momentum (approximately) Since we know Tau railguns are hypervelocity/hypersonic, we can infer a minimum velocity of around 2-3 km/s (rougly.) Which might suggest a minimum projectile mass of 2-4 kg (roughly). The KE would be roughly half that of a tank round to several times that, depending on the actual mass/velocity combination (2 kg at 2 km/s is around 4 MJ, while 3 kg at 3 km/s is roughly 13-14 MJ). But that is, IMHO consevative, because we dont know how they may or may not compesnate for recoil.

Going by scaling of the railgusn on the broadside suit, they appear to be roughly 100-120 mm in diameter. Assuming the projectile is cylindrical and its length is twice its width (so about 20-25 cm) and iron composition, the mass of the round would be between 10-12 kg (100 mm) or 20-22 kg (120 mm). Assuming the same 2-3 km/s velocity minimum, the KE would be between 20 MJ (100 mm at 2 km/s) and 100 MJ (120mm at 3 km/s). Momentum would be 20,000 kg*m/s and 66,000 kg*m/s.

Note, however, that as far as impacts go, hypervelocity impacts can be a bit different than the lower velocity ones we might associate with a battle cannon. In this case,
KE probably isn't as important to penetration as force/momentum is due to the "shoot-rhough" both sides of the tank with little apparent loss in velocity. And if the projectile doesn't slow down (the hull doesn't resist it), not all the energy will be transferred to the hull, and thus won't melt/vaporize its way through the hull. SOME heating would invariably occur, however, so we can imagine it would help penetration some, at least. Cross section of the round (especially at the tip) will also affect penetration (particularily in terms of force/pressure.) and this may offset any difference in momentum between a railgun shell and a batlte cannon shell.

Also, we dont know for sure what kind of tank it is, whether it was undamaged or had sustained previous injury, or what.

Page 14

The Crusade overreached itself when it attempted to purge a heavily populated Tau sept world and ran into the full might of the Tau military. The Crusade fought its way across Dal'yth Prime but was gradually wornd own by the Tau until they found themselves stalemated a long way from their own bases. Titans exchanged fire with hovering Manta missile destroyers, Imperial Guard fought hand-to-hand with Kroot mercenaries, and Spacee Marines learned to respect the skill and curage of the Fire caste.

Elaboration on (one of the many) reasons the Damocles Gulf crusade failed to eliminate the Tau (in addition to the small scope/resources/military might of the Crusade, the inter-Crusade squabbling, and the generally bizarre nature of the territory they fought in)

I highly doubt that the Space Marines "respect" the Fire Warriors ,however, them being "filthy xenos" and all.

Also, apparently the Tau will even fight for valuable territory if forced too (I guess they can't just run and abandon a sept world, though that doesnt mean they didn't evacuate/abandon cities and other defnsible locations), so there is a limit to just how far the Tau would run.

Page 15

Four months later, Imperium forces fought their way to the surface of Minbosa, to find the Tau well dug in and ready for a major offensive. Brightsword allowed the Imperial Guard to batter themselves on his defences before, like O'Shovah had done with the Orks, leading a series of aggressive raids, running rings around the ponderous Imperial Guard formations. Eventually at what Imperial Scholars have since dubbed the Koloth Gorge Massacre, Brightsword trapped the Imperium's forces within a narrow gorge and systematically destroyed them in a three-hour slaughter.

Here, (oddly) the Tau seem to actually be employing fixed defenses, which must represent atypical tactics on their part. Granted, the effectiveness of his tactics will also depend on both the commander of the Guard forces at the time as well as how the Guard were equipped. I would doubt (for example) that Narmenian tanks or Steel Legion guardsmen would be so easily outmanuvered by the Tau, since their tactics are similar (Cf Narmenians in Necropolis.)

[Connor MacLeod]

Last tactical update.. then I'm done with this bit. Yay!

On the offensive, Tau perfer not to attack cities by storm. Instead, they watch the main approaches and use the city as a lure to draw relief forces into ambushes. The Tau are good night fighters and when darkness falls they move into range of the defences and systematically destroy them.

When they absolutely must storm defences, ,the attack will be led by auxillairy troops such as the Kroot in a variation of the Kauyon. The assault troops are not used as pawns - the Tau way of war does not recognise the concept of expendable troops. Instead their safety is entrusted to the trroops providing the covering fire who must identify and kill enemy firebases before the asaulting force sufferes seriosu harm. The Kroot are frequently used as "stormers" because their natural fieldcraft skills allow them to make the best use of natural cover as they advance. There is a Mont'ka variant where precisely planned strikes are launched (often by Crisis teams) against a careful selection of targets which, when destroyed, compromise the entire defensive position. This technique is the hallmark of a master strategist and will rarely be sanctioned otherwise

This, at least.. I can't fault much problem with. IT seems sound and reasonable, at least assuming the right enemy (I'm still not convinced how it would work against some Imperium fortifications, like a Hive City, or the fortress in 13th Legion...)

The one probelm I do have is the last bit with the plan that is a "hallmark of a master strategist and will rarely be sanctioned." - this to me seems to reiterate the "cautious and methodical" approach the Tau military mentality emphasizes. They evidently don't trust their commanders to use their own initiative or skils without oversight. This is perhaps no better than some Imperial examples, but alot worse than others. There ARE military leaders that are given grgeat deals of flexibility (often by necessity, given the scope of the Imperium.)

Tau battle plans are very complex as each Hunter Cadre is assigned specific targets, locations, and times. Teams are briefed at length beforehand and simulations are widely employed. The Tau may start a battle with elaborate flowing attacks, each launched with perfect planning, but sooner or later their prepared scenarios cease to apply and they lose momentum. When this occurs, they will disengage and plan anew.

AGain, my impression is the Tau do not believe in the KISS principle. Complexity and thorough planning always have a place, but rarely will combat allow the sort of luxury of time and meticulousness the Tau seem to favour - unless you're facing a drastically weaker or technologically inferior opponent. And the maxim "no plan survives first contacT" seems to make the idea of an "elaborate" offense rather risky.. if things fall apart or don't go mostly (if not totally) as the TAu want, things could go wrong.

In fact, this seems to be the case, given the "lose momentum" bit, which seems to suggest they don't improvise or deviate from their initial plans much, if at all (They probably rely on pre-devised contingency plans.. and just have millions of those on hand in case something happens. Anal retentive planning, in other words, but no apparent flexibility in thinking once combat is joined.) The Tau formulate complex plans beforehand, alot of specific decisions and whatnot, and then follow them out "perfectly" until the situation changes, whereupon their offensives cease and they retreat. This can (and probably does) mean Tau plans peter out rather quickly, given that few combat situations (esp on a large scale) will remain unchanged for long in reality. So this makes me wonder how many gains they actually Can or do make, especially in consideration with all their other philosophies as described, unless things go heavily in their favour (which I do admit seems to be the case in alot of fights I've seen.) But when they don't... I bet things fall apart really quick-like.

The "lack of momentum" bit also makes me further think of a lack of flexibility.. they can't (or at least aren't supposed to) adapt plans to changing situations of combat on the fly... but rather "withdraw and begin more anal retentive planning sessions". Which again also emphasizes the assumption that the enemy gives them time and space to do so... is anyone else seeing a pattern emerge?

It is important to note that the Tau regard territorial gain as militarily irrelevant compared ot the destruction of the enemy forces. Ground is for position from which to make the kill; once the kill is made, the ground is for the taking. A Tau army will gladly retreat from a strong enemy attack to preserve Tau lives while it awaits its opportunity to strike back decisvely.

...

Unlike the Imperium of Man, the Tau empire cannot draw on limitless manpower, so the strategy of attrition is unknown to them.

I can't but help cringe at this. It DOES have some truth... destruciton of enemy forces can be key, and ground is useful for making a kill.. but that's NOT all. Ground is also supply/logistics and resource/industrial bases, which must be protected from the enemy lest he destroy it. Ground can also mean civilian life and infrastructure, which can be just as important.

And while preserving lives can be laudible and logical, I can't help bu think the Tau (yet again) take the concept to extrems. The context here makes it seem as if the Tau will retreat to avoid casualties even if it means giving up ground they might defend (again they evidedntly don't in theory defend cities.) I get the impression that an enemy could intimidate the Tau into retreating (even bluff perhaps) and then move in and occupy/destroy anything they leave behind. And, to be blunt.. what makes the Tau think they can run forever? If they lose their logistics and supply bases and lines.. they'll run down sooner or later even if they HAVE room to manuver (which is doubtufl under most circumstancecs.)

Attrition can be an effective (if wasteful strategy) and the Tau's limited population make it unteneable, but still.. it does not seem like they are very willing to risk very many casualites to achieve an objective.

[Connor MacLeod]

Page 17

In actuality the Kroot musculature is extremely powerful and composed of dense fibre spindles with a greater power to mass ratio than is found in humans. Swift muscle contraction screate a whiplash effect, allowing the Kroot to dleiver powerful blows with great rapidity. On the ground, the Kroot tend to move with a bounding, hopping gait, but when in dense forests can spring from tree to tree at great speed.

Kroot seem to have greater "short-term" strength than humans (more "powerful") given how their muscles are oriented, and the benefits (greater physical blows, jumping, etc.) Note that this does not confer "all around" benefits but is rather a specialized application (They might be able to briefly lift heavy objects or throw things with great force, but they wouldn't neccesarily be able to maintain that force for very long.)

Page 17

The Kroot digestive system is extremely efficient, capable of breaking down almost any organic material into an energy form that can be stored in specailized organs scattered throughout their bodies called nymunes. The strangest quirk of Kroot digestion is their ability to extract potentially useful strands of their food's DNA.

...


The Kroot have somehow inherited the ability to incorporate useful DNA codes into their own genetic makeup.

Kroot actually can "cannibalize" abilities from the genetic material of enemies they eat (or other information, much like Space Marines can.) And (like Space Marines) they have extremely efficient digestive systems. I doubt any of this is "realistic", so like many things, we can probably blaem it somehow on the Warp. (in other words, its magic.)

Page 17

Their fighting ability is without doubt greater than that of most humans and is a factor of their corded muscle structure and superior vision. Kroot are stronger than humans although they have comparable tolerances ot injury.

Stronger than human, with better vision, but not tougher. This also probably reinforces the "short term vs long term" strrength specialization too.

Page 17

Kroot fight with a rifle, which, while relatively primitive, is capable of delivering a charged round more powerful than a standard issue lasgun.

..

More poweful armament comes in the form of the Kroot gun, mounted on the back of the Krootox beasts. These guns fire a larger, more powefully charged round, capable of smashing lightly armoured vehicles and killing even the most powerful individual with a single shot.

the "charged round" is a type of pulse ammo made for them by the Tau. This also, of course, means that tau weapons are more powerful than lasguns, but we kinda knew that already.

This also suggests pulse weaponry is some hybrid projectile and particle/plasma weapon.

Page 21

The Tau'cyr is an annual cycle on Tau. A Tau'cyr is broken down into 6 kai'rotaa each of 8 rotaa, each kai'rotaa is dedicated ot a caste with the additional one dedicated to the race as a whole. A rotaa is broken down into ten decs; decs are either light-time or dark-time. Most Tau need only 1-2 decs of sleep per rotaa.


Conversion:

The Tau'cyr or Tau Year lasts approximately 300 Terran days (297.74 to be precise). A kai'rotaa is therefore about 50 Terran days. A rotaa is approximately 15 Terran hours and a dec is 1.5 Terran hours.

The conversion between Tau and human time units. Note as well that Tau only (apparently?) need 3 hours of sleep a night.


Page 22

The most common type [of team] is the Fire Warrior team, consisting of six to twelve Fire Warrios an dnormally lead by an experiencecd leader called a Shas'ul

A Fire Warrior team normally has a transport vehicle, in the form of a Devilfish troop carrier assigned to it, allowing it to operate as mechanised infantry.

Tau operate in slightyl larger formations than Imperial Guard squads, though they seem to be more normally assigned transporrt. (Of course, their logistical network is smaller and more centralized than the Guard's is.)

]The Cadre is a standing formation, and includes a number of infantry and vehicle units within it, including battlesuits and Hammerhead tanks. In this regard the Tau are very different to the Imperium in organisation of their military, for the different 'arms' are fully integrgated at the tactical level and are considered in all respects part of the same unit.

A Cadre normally consists of up to six Fire Warrior teams, plus a number of Pathfinder, Stealth, and Battlesuit teams, plus a handful of Hammerhead tanks or more specialised vehicles such as the Sky Ray. Auxiliary troops such as Kroot Carnivores may be attached for a tactical role.

A Cadre keeps a large stock of equipment and vehicles, allowing it to operate in a variety of roles.

Despite what it says, the Imperium is not unfamiliar with "combined arms" units (with organic tank and artillery as well as mechanised infantry and regular infantry), but probably is not nearly as standardized/better integrated as it is with the Tau (like with most things.) - the scope and decentralized nature of the Imperium make it impossible to implement effectively.

Note as well that like the Imperium, they don't have organic air assets it seems, at least not attached to the Cadres. (though they'll still be available.) The IG at least can have some air assets (like Valkyries and Vultures) attached to regiments.

Alos, while Tau have access to Manta, it IS worth noting that some IG dropships can be heavily armed/armoured too (EG "Tetrarch heavy lander" from Tactica Imperialis)

Page 23

A contingent is simply a grouping of Cadres - normally 3 to six.

...

A contingent is not a permanant grouping...

...

A battle is a temporay grouping of Contingents, and the highest level of Fire caste organisation thus far deployed in the field. To date, all such formations have been gathered with the express prupose of taking a given objective - once this objective is achieved the formation is dissolved.

...

"Command" is a term for all the forces of a given caste, in a given location. In all likelihood the location will be a world, though it could be a planetary system.

...

The Four commands are drawn togehter into a strategic organisation referred to as a Coalition, and presided over by an Ethereal, or a council of such. This is the level at which inter-case cooperation is coordinated,...

..

Thus, a Colaition will consist of all Tau forces on a given world or system, or the forces neccessary to take such an objective.

Above this, all Tau formations seem to be temporary (like IG "armies", "battlegrroups", etc.)


Page 23

This arrangement is notable in that it limits the otherwise largely independent castes to a single planet, unless they act together, for the so-called Greater Good. Therefore, in the unlikely event of any sort of rebellion by the members of any given caste, the upheaval might be limited to a single world and easily containable by the combined action of the other castes.

Apparently, ,the Tau still embrace a form of segregation akin to what the Imperium practices with its forces. Apparently their belief (indoctrination) in the Greater good isn't absolute, since they consider rebellion a possibility (even if remote. if it were highly improbable, why adopt such a strategy?) Of course we have Farsight as an example.

It also hints that perhaps individual castes are not nearly as unified as some might believe. Inter-caste conflict, perhaps?


Page 25

Tau weapons systems and battlesuits are all equipped with stabilising gyroscopes that enable them to bring weapons to bear at speed. An advanced stabilisation system allows the wearer a degree of mobility whislt firing even the heaviest of weapons.

Though we aren't told what comprises this "stabilisation" system specfically.


Page 25

Airbursting fragmentation projector: This weapons scatters fragmentation bomblets over a wide area, at a height calculated by a simple AI within each warhead to cause optimum damage.

One presumes this is an anti-personnel weapon.

Page 26

Blacksun filter: This advanced optical filter enables the user to double the distance rolled for determining how far they can see when fighting at night.

Basically its just the tau version of NVGs or infrared scopes. The main advantage the Tau have in the Imperium over this is that it is more compactly integrrated into the Fire Warrior's helmet (like other tech), a nd much more standardized among Tau units. (Its unlikely you'd be seeing many Feral regiments or Penal legions using them, for example.)

Page 26

Utilising the plasma induction technology found in the pulse rifle and other systems, the burst cannon is a multi-barrel weapon able to sustain high rates of fire.

the fact they employ multiple barrels would seem to imply, like with kroot rifles, that "pulse" weapons are a kind of plasma/projectile weapon. Ender mentioned to me that the latest upgrade to Dawn of War suggested tau weapons had a projectile-like quality, as does the Fire Warrior novel.

Page 26

Command and Control node: A sophisticated, AI-assisted transmission system.

Another example of the use of AI/automation in their combat capabilities. The Imperium does have a sort of analog to this (Data-nets) but it isn't quite as good in some ways at least, at least not the level of integration they do (The Imperium can send receive various kinds of data (visual, audio, computer) via voxes, but this is generally squad level at best (Tau can send/receive data at individual trooper), and the difference in automation.

Mind, I suspect that at the vehicle level this tends not to matter a smuch (most Imperium vehciles tend to have their own comms systems, at the very least to communicate across squadron membs) - we know that the Imperial voxes can share sensor/tagerting information as well as relay audio/visual signals (various sources), and such data would be of more use to tanks and artillery than to individual infantrymen. (at most you might need a squad to relay such data.)


PAge 26

Cyclic Ion blaster: Developed to combat multiple, lightly armoured enemies, this weapon generates a rapid stream of ion raidation, unleashing it through its four barrels. Though the rate of fire is stable, ,the ionisation effect is variable.

Tau version of a multi-laser, perhaps?

Page 26

A drone corntroller acts as a hub for communications between the operator and a number of drones.

Apparently even Tau drones need an organic element in the loop at some point.


Page 26

Iridium armour plates. The character's battlesuit is fitted iwth additional armour protection in the form of iridium armour plates fitted across its surface.

All I have to say is... Iridium? Iridium is dense, but its also rather brittle, so its hard to work with. But decent thermal properties. One assumes that perhaps Iridium is a prime component in Tau armor, but not the only one. (that "nanocrystalline stuff" mentioned in IA3) Its thermal properties and density might make it good against energy weapons, but it probably would suck on its own against projectile weapons.

We learn frrom Imperial Armour that the Tau use some "nano-crystaline alloy armour" or some such technobabble, so again this seems odd.

Page 26

The Multi-tracker is a sophisticated fire control system mounted in a sensor node, ofrten upon a battlesuits's shoulder. It enables the model to fire two battlesuit weapons systems in the same turn.

A kind of targeter I suppose, but allowing for "dual gun" firing on the enemy. (improves coordination of fire rather than accuracy of fire, in other words.)

Page 27

Plasma technology is used by many races, despite its unstable nature. Tau favour a form of the technology that forgoes a degree of stopping power for increased safety of the operator.

This tells us that Imperial plasma weapons are prone to instability less because of their design and more because of their output. Therefore, it is reasonable to infer an inverse relationship between output and reliability/safety. This makes sense in light of the fact that "older" plasma guns needed time between shots to cool down and recycle.

Similarily, we might infer that "lower output" plasma shots are probably less "dangerous" than higher output ones.

Page 27

Positional relay: This records detailed battlefield data and relays it in a tight-band, encrypted burst to a single unit opreating as a strategic reserve.

Some sort of sensor devicee, presumably stationary. ITs something not unheard of amongst the Guard though.

Page 27

The Tau battlesuit railgun uses linear accelerator technology to project a solid projectile at hypervelocity. It is capable of punching through the thickest of armour and of taking down the largest of enemies.

"hypervelocity", at least in terms of a railgun, ,could mean several km/s (hypersonic, as mentioned in the Taros book) or "tens of km/s" (like asteroid/comet impacts.)

Page 27

The smart missile system fires self-guiding missiles with the intelligence of a drone, whcih first search for then hunt down the target, passing any blocking terrain.

In other word,s the Tau version of a hunter-killer missile, except it needs something to home in on.

[Connor MacLeod]

Page 27

A stealth field is projected from small nodes situated at points upon the user's body, surrounding him in a distortion effect that makes him extremely difficult to target.

A somewhat more sophisticated version of cameoline or Imperium mirror shields I imagine, but not total invisibility (As Kill Team demonstrates.)

PAge 27

The character's battlesuit is fitted with an advanced life support systme that is able to flood his system with stimulants should he become wounded.

Space Marine and Sororitas power armor does something similar, if I remember.

Page 29

Kroot rifle: A primitive slugthrower relying on chemical propellant and the transfer of kinetic enerrgy. The tau have adapted the weapon to fire a charged pulse round. The new ammunition gives the Kroot far greater stopping power and penetration.

Again, this tends to suggest Tau weaponry is at least parrtly projectile-like.


Page 29

Photon grenade: A defensive grenade that blinds and disorients attackers with multi-spectral light and a sonic burst.

A glorified flashbang, in other words.

Page 29

The pulse carbine sacrifices range for portability and the chance to mount an underslung photon grenade launcher.

Full pulse rifles must be too large/unwieldy to equip with a grenade launcher.

PAge 29

The pulse rifle uses an induction field to propel a particle, which reacts by breaking down to create a plasma pulse as it leaves the barrel.

A repeat of how Tau pulse weaponry works.

Page 29

[Vespid Neutron Blaster] The crystal mounted upon each blaster emits a powerful neutron blast that is able to bypass all but the most efficiently ray shielded armour.

Apparently "ray shielding" does exist, and on personal scales.

Page 29

A markerlight is a hand-held device that projects a simple beam upon a target, and is used to guide other weapons to it with unnerring acuracy.

A targeting laser, basically.

Page 30

This is simply a vehicle-mounted version of the hard-wired filter [blacksun filter] system.

Vehicles seem to have the tau equivalent of infrared/nVG capability.

PAge 30

Decoy launchers are mounted near the engines of Tau skimmers and fire clouds fo reflective strips and tiny emitter drones to protect the vulnerable thruster arrays.

Tau do employ Countermeasures. Presumably the Imperium does so as well.

PAge 30

A disruption pod throws out distorting images in both visual and magnetic spectra, making it hard to target at range.[//quote]

More ECM. Presumably its less sophisticated than Eldar holofields.

Page 30

Powerful clusters of reactive charges are attached to the hulls of many Tau vehicles. If the enemy approach, they fire off viscious cloud sof high velocity flechettes.

Antipersonnel weapon, presumably.

PAge 30

A vehicle may be equipped with two gun drones. The drones will move with the vehicle, safely contained in specially designed recesses.

Tau vehicles can be equipped with drones of their own.

PAge 30

Hammerhead railgun: The railgun is a linear accelerator which functions using standing wave acceleration along a number of cylindrical superconductive electrodes that surround the barrel. It can fire either a solid projectile or a sophisticated bundle of submunitions.

Sounds more like a coilgun than a railgun. They seem to use varaible ordnancee, nonetheless, though nothing of an explosive nature near as I can tell.

Page 30

Ion weaponry generates a stream of high-energy particles that are accelerated by an electromagnetic field. THese will react explosively with the target as a result of direct transfer of energy at the atomic level.

Tau use charged particle beam weapons instead of lasers.

PAge 30

The vehicle-mounted multi-tracker is combined with advanced stabilisers enabling a vehicle to fire as if it were a fast vehicle.

Tau vehicles (or at least some) can fire accurately while moving.

Page 30-31

Seeker missile arrays are provided to allow Tau infantry to immediately obtain fire supporrt, for Fire caste doctrine does not allow for organic, integrated heavy weapons in Fire Warrior Teams. Any model equipped with a markerlight may reqcuest a seeker missiel salvo as detailed in the markerlight rules.

Oddly unlike the Imperials, Tau are not allowed access to "organic" heavy weapons in squads (which is optional, but not always present, for IG squads.)

Page 31

Sensor spines are used to feed data to an advanced ground-following flight control system.

Terrain following sensors, I suppose.

Page 31

Targeting arrays assist the vehicle gunner's aim by adjusting for the target's range and speed.

...

The target lock identifies potential targets and plots fire plans to counter them, granting the vehicle gunner far more choice about the targets to be engaged.[

Tau targeters, basically.

Page 31

Drones are independent artificial intelligences, programmed to protect the Tau. Unlike the Imperium, the Tau make extensive use of machine intelligences. Normally drones will require regular orders from a Tau, but when several intelligencees are networked togehter in a squadron they become capable of acting independently for a long period.

Tau drones. Apparently they do have workarounds with the "human factor"

I don't think that the Imperium makes "less" extensive use of AI or machien intelligences, its just that they don't do so uniformly, and they generally don't "recognize" them as such.
And some of those AIs will actually have genuine human elements to them as well.

[Teleros]

Sounds more like a coilgun than a railgun. They seem to use varaible ordnancee, nonetheless, though nothing of an explosive nature near as I can tell.

The submunitions option is explosive - based on the game rules a Hammerhead (but not a broadside etc) can fire either a non-explosive anti-tank round (ie no blast marker etc), or the submunitions, which is weaker but has a large area of effect (Str 6 AP 4, Large Blast Marker - basically instant death for any Imperial Guardsmen - or Tau - caught in the blast, including those in carapace armour, but less useful against Marines and the like).
Unfortunately I don't know of any pieces of fiction where submunitions have been used and the effects described, but based on the rules I'd just say it's an anti-personnel weapon pretty good at penetrating infantry armour.

[Cykeisme]

The submunitions option is explosive - based on the game rules a Hammerhead (but not a broadside etc) can fire either a non-explosive anti-tank round (ie no blast marker etc), or the submunitions, which is weaker but has a large area of effect (Str 6 AP 4, Large Blast Marker - basically instant death for any Imperial Guardsmen - or Tau - caught in the blast, including those in carapace armour, but less useful against Marines and the like).
Unfortunately I don't know of any pieces of fiction where submunitions have been used and the effects described, but based on the rules I'd just say it's an anti-personnel weapon pretty good at penetrating infantry armour.

It seems like a bit of a waste using a delivery system capable of firing a projectile with high kinetic energy, and then simply use it to deliver an explosive payload.
It would make more sense if the shell broke up in flight (possibly at a programmable distance), creating a "shotgun"-like effect of solid submunitions.

It would have been more interesting in-game if it used the teardrop template instead of the standard circular blast template. Allow it to be placed at any distance up to the weapon's range, with the restriction that the teardrop template must be aligned along the weapon's line of fire with the narrow end facing the weapon.

Anyway, silly Tau seem to be the favourites, disproportionately overpowered (compared to fluff) in both tabletop and RTS computer games, while Space Marines have the opposite treatment.
All in the name of playability, I suppose.

[Connor MacLeod]

Finally, last post on the Tau and then I'm done . This WILL be the last thread in this particular analysis. I may decide one day what to do with this thread...



Page 36

The Devilfish also carries a pair of Gun Drones to provide even more firepower [in additon to a burst cannon]

...

The Gun Drones may be replaced by a smart missile system..

Devilfishes seem more diversely armed than the Imperium equivalent, the chimera. Though the Chimera seems like it has the potential for greater firepower (you can equip it with storm bolters, heavy bolters, meltaguns, lascannon, multilasers, autocannon, even some kinds of battle cannon.)

Page 38

Tau Pathfinders are the eyes and ears of a Cadre's commander, and coordinate closely with other formations.. Fire caste doctrine states that a Cadre in the field should be pulled forward by its Pathfinders, as opposed to its Pathfinders being pushed forward by the Cadre.

So basically Pathfinders are Tau equivalents of light infantry. Big shock there.

Page 38

The Devilfish transports issued to Pathfinder teams are equipped with enhanced optical processors and long-range communications systems. These are used to guide the deployment of Battlesuit-equipped teams.

Some transportts apparently serve a scout role especially.

Page 40

Sniper Drone teams consist of a single Tau Spotter and three rail-rifle equipped drones. Each team is equipped to provide pinpoint accurate anti-personnel firepower,

Drones cna also carry railguns apparently, but they apparently are "anti-personnel" rather than "anti-vehicle."

Page 41

The Sky Ray is a avariant of the more common Hammerhead gunship, and provides a dedicated missile platform that is used by the Fire caste to provide poitn attack fire supportt for Fire Warrior teams, who lack their own heavy weaponry. When guided by the markerlights of Pathfinder teams, the Sky Ray makes an exceptional perimeter and air defence missile system.

Tau rocket/missile platform.

Page 42

As his words echoed into silence, a mililon Fire Warrios listening outside the council dome went down on bended knee.

...

The Air caste launched a thousand vessels, each named for one of his deeds.[

"a million fire warriors" and "a thousadn vessels" - minimum (?) figures on Tau ground and space assets. The Fire Warrior numbers are almost certainly understated, though, I suspect its more greatly understated than the fleet numbers are. (

If we assumed 1 Sept World's assets represented this, there'd be some 20 million Fire Warriors, but some 20,000 vessels (some may not all be warships.) Small as the Tau are, I'm pretty sure they still have far more than 20 million troops.

PAge 42

Across half a dozen new worlds, a million Fire Warriors and many more colonists stand ready to sacrifice all upon a single word of their beloved Ethereal..

one million fire warriors for half a dozen worlds. With around 100 worlds that would mean tens of millions of fire Warriors... not all that huge an army, really.

[Noble713]

I did a search for "Hive world Minea" with no results, so this stuff apparently hasn't been covered. It's from the 5th edition rulebook, and a thread on misc numbers seemed the best place to put it. It's take from a graphic/data readout.

pg.115
Minea
ha class Hive World, Ultima Segmentum
Population: 154 billion
Approx. number of hive worlds in the Imperium: 3.238 x 10^4
Imperial Garrison Strength: 2,000,000 men
Planetary draft: 1,249,000 per annum

This states that there are approximately 32,380 hive worlds in the Imperium. If Minea can be taken as an average/typical hive world, then these worlds supply 40.4 billion troops every year.

If we assume a population growth rate of 0.5% (reasonable, given the precarious resource situation of most hive worlds) for Minea, there should be ~770 million people reaching adulthood annually on this world, so only about 0.16% of them are being drafted. Note that this is close to the US Army's rate of volunteer enlistment for 2006 & 2007 (link).

The closest thing the real world has to Cadia is North Korea, the most heavily militarized country in the world with 20% of it's military-age men under arms. From a manpower perspective, the Imperium should be able to support a military several orders of magnitude larger than what we see here. Clearly their constraints are of a logistical nature (not enough lasguns to go around? ).

pg.117 (galaxy map)
Macragge
Population: 400,000,000

If the conscription rate of the capital of Ultramar (which we know supplies regiments to the Guard) is the same as Minea's, Macragge would supply 3.2 million men annually.

[Imperial Overlord]

Transport may be a bottleneck with regards to Guard recruitment. The Imperium does have to move all these men and equipment through space and while it does have a lot of very big ships, it might simply not have enough with all the other demands on its space assets to support larger Guard regiments.

[Falkenhayn]

I think it's a safe bet to say that the plurality of IoM worlds at least are ruled by a hereditary nobility, and part of their oblige is providing officers for the PDF, and by extension, the Guard. Recreating your social structure in your military organization is a very, very strong theme in European history, especially when the country is deeply invested in hierarchy. The nobility itself could be useless fops (in which case, sod the proles, keep them in the dirt no matter what) or cradle-to-grave professionals (in which case, the commons haven't been bred and trained for this all their lives, so they can't be true officers), the outcome is largely the same.

It would help A LOT to know how the Administratum calculated a world's tithe grade. But the IoM has problems enough without wondering whether the mobilization regime itself threatens the stability of a given planet. Sure that goes by the wayside in extremity, but this is 40k and everything goes by the wayside in extremity.

[Connor MacLeod]

Transport may be a bottleneck with regards to Guard recruitment. The Imperium does have to move all these men and equipment through space and while it does have a lot of very big ships, it might simply not have enough with all the other demands on its space assets to support larger Guard regiments.

I suppose that depends on the nature of the transports. We know (and I dont have to reiterate where) they can run freighters with and without navigators and they have several different forms of navigation available. Inter sector or inter-subsector probably isn't a huge problem since we know that many sectors have a fairly bustling if somewhat slow trade along those routes (even tourism, I believe, if of a religious bent) and shifting troops via those vessles (which I remember are pretty numerous too) would't be a big hassle.

Interstellar (IE navigator) transit is probably much more limited simply because there are much fewer ships. BFG mentioned "hundreds" of interstellar transports available for various uses including troop transporrt. Assuming on average they carry 1-2 regiments (say 5-10,000 troops) and at least 200 transports - you get 1 or 2 million troops carried within a sector. We know on average there are 50-75 warships too, which we can also assume carry on average 1 regiment or so (call it 5K per ship again on average) for another 250,000-375,000 or so troops (roughly). With between 5-10K sectors at LEast (assuming the 1 million world minimum, despite hints of more worlds than that existing) the transportt should easily run into the billions/tens of billions of troops transportable, at a minimum. Assuming trillions of Guardsmen in the Imperium, that's maybe one percent or so. I dont know how that would fit.

That would mesh (broadly) with the notion that we know there are "millions" of interstellar transports in the Impeirum (Fabric of the Imperium IIRC) Assuming each could carry on average a couple regiments (call it 10,000 troops) that would be tens or hundreds of billions of troops alone, not including whatever the Navy itself transported. Broadly (based on my pervious estimates) you might assume naval forces added another 10% of the transporrt figure.

I'm kinda lowballing these figures deliberately, mind (ignoring "millions" of worlds in the Imperium, the definition of "hundreds", or the size of regiments, or the guesstimated carrying capacity, so on and so forth.)
but even so while the numbers themselves could be bigger, I doubt the percantages would go up any more (they could possibly go down). There is also the possiblity that the "hundreds" of trnasportts referred to vessels directly under the Navy rather than military + commercial, but I dont recall that much. You might also fudge that figure since I'm not factoring in the reserve fleets/mothballed ships (whcih are a big unknown, but in an emergency the Imperium could probably strip out armament and press them into transportt duty too.)

The thing to remember though too ias that you'll always hae allied forcese. The AdMech we see sometimes can transit huge forces (and they appear to have a substantial fleet) on their Titan carriers, and the Arbites, Sorortias, and nautrally Astartes have their own ships and can also lend aid.

Offhand I'm starrting to guess that in the really big wars when you have "slow" amassing of forces, the bulk of that delay comes from the non-navigator assets that may be carrying or deploying troops. As a rule we tend to see Navigators aren't all THAT slow (at least over the ranges inside a segmentum or across a few sectors). When you get to the large scale conflicts that need you to draw assets from thousands of LY away its probably starting to strain resources. From what I recall about the whole "deployment" issues and stuff when the Munitorum receives an alert, they always deploy their garrison/ready forces at hand first, which likely means that they'll be well trained (or veteran) forces being sent out on the fastest available transport. Its likely the secondary forces (whatever else they can amass locally) gets snet out in whatever form they can find.