A cobra class destroyer in the Trekverse

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Post by glass » 2007-02-12 06:31am

Stormbringer wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:I think the real question of this is whether the Cobra's captain and the Guard Officers bother conquering Bajor or if they go straight for a Crusade to save Holy Terra?
How do they get to, or even find, earth without the Astropaths to guide them?

They'd have to get fed-style warp technology from somewhere first, and figure out how to apply it to their ship (or figure out how to recreate their guns on 'liberated' ships). How much do the AdMechs actually know about how their own technology works?


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Post by 18-Till-I-Die » 2007-02-12 08:07am

Warp jumps, even with the shitty Warp quality of the 40k universe, are entirely possible (over very 'short', by galactic standards, areas mind you) without Navigators. Astropaths are used for communication and all ships will most certainly have them, and as far as i know they function Astronomican or no.

In the Trekverse the Warp will, most likely, be quite placid and easier to navigate. They may have problems getting their barings but it wont be impossible.

Besides i'm fairly sure that they use Navigators and another, more primitive form of calculating jumps as well. If all else fails the 40k universe typically has a fallback.
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Post by Azazal » 2007-02-12 09:16am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Warp jumps, even with the shitty Warp quality of the 40k universe, are entirely possible (over very 'short', by galactic standards, areas mind you) without Navigators. Astropaths are used for communication and all ships will most certainly have them, and as far as i know they function Astronomican or no.

In the Trekverse the Warp will, most likely, be quite placid and easier to navigate. They may have problems getting their barings but it wont be impossible.

Besides i'm fairly sure that they use Navigators and another, more primitive form of calculating jumps as well. If all else fails the 40k universe typically has a fallback.
Correct, and people seem to forgte that humanity in 40kverse spread throughout the galaxy, BEFORE the Emperor was running the Astronomican. With the warp being quite or much more calm then present day 40K, making short hops to Terra will be quite easy.
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Post by NecronLord » 2007-02-12 10:16am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Besides i'm fairly sure that they use Navigators and another, more primitive form of calculating jumps as well. If all else fails the 40k universe typically has a fallback.
Correct. Typically up to four light years per jump. You can see it in action in my last 40K fanfic </plug> which I should post more of.
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Post by glass » 2007-02-12 11:24am

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Warp jumps, even with the shitty Warp quality of the 40k universe, are entirely possible (over very 'short', by galactic standards, areas mind you) without Navigators. Astropaths are used for communication and all ships will most certainly have them, and as far as i know they function Astronomican or no.
Sorry, I meant the Astronomicon, rather than astropaths. Astropaths and navigators would obviously be expected to be present (the OP doesn't list any, but I'd assume they'd be counted as crew which are also not listed).

That said, I didn't really think my comments through. Even if they have to jump one system as a time, the Federation isn't all that big: It may still take a while, but it isn't like the imperials have anything better to do....
18-Till-I-Die wrote:In the Trekverse the Warp will, most likely, be quite placid and easier to navigate. They may have problems getting their barings but it wont be impossible.
Good point. So it could be even easier.

18-Till-I-Die wrote:Besides i'm fairly sure that they use Navigators and another, more primitive form of calculating jumps as well. If all else fails the 40k universe typically has a fallback.
Arrgh, two much Star Trek has wiped such Engineering concepts from my brain, apparently. :oops:


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Post by Lost Soal » 2007-02-12 01:30pm

They have star charts so they will have the ability to go to earth, however xenophobic, miitaristic and technologically superiour they may be, but they aren't stupid enough to go after Earth Bajor or any other main world with just a Cobra and a Transport.

In my opinion, they wil likely sieze cargo ships and other assorted craft first first to get their databanks, then they'll go after mining and production colonies and outposts as well as a reasonably large station to use as a base of operations. Upgrade the captures station and ships because Its unlikely they'll be able to build IoM ships for a while, and thats assuming they actually have the plans for them stored.

Once they've got a numbr of upgraded ships, then they can go after a more significant planet, capture it and use the population to begin full scale production Repeat and spread, offering human worlds the choice to join the new Imperium and recruit new guardsmen.

Of course theirs also the, highly likly, possibility, that 50,000 guardsmen, tired of fighting wars with no fear of retribution from the Imperium, will simply set down on some nice planet and stay there. Seriously, the majority of guardsmen, after the first few years, only continue to fight because they have to, and their too scared to die to just say no.
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Post by andrewgpaul » 2007-02-12 01:45pm

A nitpick, but does a Cobra even have any embarked troops? Or did you just mean the ship's complement.

How much quieteris the Warp in 23-umpty-something, anyway? Three of the Chaos Gods are already awake, after all.
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Post by Lost Soal » 2007-02-12 01:48pm

andrewgpaul wrote:A nitpick, but does a Cobra even have any embarked troops? Or did you just mean the ship's complement.

How much quieteris the Warp in 23-umpty-something, anyway? Three of the Chaos Gods are already awake, after all.
Theres a Transport Ship carrying the troops. And it was, I believe, the gestation of Slaanesh which caused the mass of Warp Storms to spring up, then clear up when it was finally Born
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Post by white_rabbit » 2007-02-12 06:03pm

But the Blackstones were inert and unoccupied. Relics, abandoned pieces of detrius essentially.
The DS9 is not.

Just to point out, the Imperium captured at least one Tau space station during the Damocles Crusade.

After it was suitably purified (i.e. all the Tau were dead, and their scattered body parts cleaned up) it was used by the crusade forces.
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Post by The Yosemite Bear » 2007-02-12 06:29pm

your sig pic is most appropreate in this discussion rabbit....
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Post by Inquisitor Ryan » 2007-02-12 07:34pm

white_rabbit wrote:
But the Blackstones were inert and unoccupied. Relics, abandoned pieces of detrius essentially.
The DS9 is not.

Just to point out, the Imperium captured at least one Tau space station during the Damocles Crusade.

After it was suitably purified (i.e. all the Tau were dead, and their scattered body parts cleaned up) it was used by the crusade forces.
Where is that from mate? I don't recall it...
In any case they probably destroy DS9 by accident with their first salvo.
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Post by Elheru Aran » 2007-02-12 07:38pm

Inquisitor Ryan wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:
But the Blackstones were inert and unoccupied. Relics, abandoned pieces of detrius essentially.
The DS9 is not.

Just to point out, the Imperium captured at least one Tau space station during the Damocles Crusade.

After it was suitably purified (i.e. all the Tau were dead, and their scattered body parts cleaned up) it was used by the crusade forces.
Where is that from mate? I don't recall it...
In any case they probably destroy DS9 by accident with their first salvo.
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Post by fgalkin » 2007-02-12 07:49pm

Also, remember that the Imperium used to own the Fortress world of Morlond, which is essentially a huge alien battlestation, before it fell to Chaos.

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Post by Connor MacLeod » 2007-02-13 02:15am

I think that the FTL speed is going to be much faster in the Trek universe than in the 40K universe. The Trekverse is going to have very little to no psychic presence in the warp (unless the OP is modified to say otherwise, in which case they should be evolving psykers and Chaos out the Wazoo), which in turn ought to mean navigating said Warp should be much faster and easier.

Imperium ships, especially light escorts like a Cobra are going to also have much longer operational durations even allowing for their high-level outputs (most Starship combats can last many hours or days, ,and the in-system travel to reach inhabited planets typically requires similar durations, and they can perform those multiple times.) A Cobra-class destroyer ought to be able to sustain many weeks of combat easily, especially given that they shouldn't even need to operate offensively or defensively at maximum output.

I also believe that its common practice for most Imperium ships to be somewhat "self sufficient" in terms of operation (due to FTL speeds partly but also to the nature of patrols.) which could also mean that repairs aren't an issue (now that I think about it, many Imperium warships tend to need on the fly repairs as a matter of course simply because they've been in operation for long periods of time..)

Firepower wise, I expect a Cobra should be able to sustain an e19-e20 watt sustained firepower easily (assuming 3-4 orders of magnitude differencee in firepower between a Cobra destrtoyer and a battleship, which is probably reasonable.) more than enough to wipe out any Trek ship. The transports, as noted, ,should add some to that (Its quite probable the transports could maul most Trek ships on their own easiyl as well.)

Short of technobabble wank, virtual omnipotents, time travel crap, or the occasional (exceptional) rarity, there's virtually nothing anything in Trek that will outright threaten the Imperial ships, with or without shields.

Ground combat: Holding territory is bound to be iffy, given the few troops. They can doubtless conquer any planet most of the powers hold, especially with orbital support, but they probably cannot hold it indefinitely. At least not without more troops.

Of course, if there's one thing that the Imperium excels at, its enlisting more manpower. All they need to do is find a nice world of primitives (we've seen plenty of human worlds in Trek that would fit that description - Tasha Yarr came from at least one such world, IIRC.) With the Cobra and transports to assure orbital domination and more troops, they probably can embark on a successful (but lengthy) campaign of conquest and/or purging.

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Post by Inquisitor Ryan » 2007-02-13 04:47am

Connor MacLeod wrote:Of course, if there's one thing that the Imperium excels at, its enlisting more manpower. All they need to do is find a nice world of primitives (we've seen plenty of human worlds in Trek that would fit that description - Tasha Yarr came from at least one such world, IIRC.) With the Cobra and transports to assure orbital domination and more troops, they probably can embark on a successful (but lengthy) campaign of conquest and/or purging.
At a very rough guess the Imperium troops could probably hold three such worlds from the outset.
And then there is the catch that those worlds cannot actively call for help from the federation, given the number of primative cultures etc within the federation due to the non-interference policy it is quite plausible for the Imperium force to build quite an empire in a relatively short time. And since one primative 40k planet managed to build a cruiser then many primative cultures should be able to provide enough manpower to build a fleet of Cobra class destroyers.
On another note many of these worlds may be actively against the federation once they discover that they have been forced to live out their possibly quite miserable lives when some other race decided that they were "unworthy" of aid, technological or otherwise.
The Imperium force will have no qualms about taking such worlds by force or diplomacy.
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Post by Azazal » 2007-02-13 09:07am

Connor MacLeod wrote:Of course, if there's one thing that the Imperium excels at, its enlisting more manpower. All they need to do is find a nice world of primitives (we've seen plenty of human worlds in Trek that would fit that description - Tasha Yarr came from at least one such world, IIRC.) With the Cobra and transports to assure orbital domination and more troops, they probably can embark on a successful (but lengthy) campaign of conquest and/or purging.
Hmmm, makes me wonder. Since they are showing up near Bajor, if they 40K folks started to cleanse the Xeno scum Cardies, would the Maquis join them? 40K says that they are there to free humanity from alien slavery and allow humanity to rule. Would the Maquis see this as a means to take back their homes, but in doing so, sign a deal with the devil.
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Post by NecronLord » 2007-02-13 03:19pm

Azazal wrote:Hmmm, makes me wonder. Since they are showing up near Bajor, if they 40K folks started to cleanse the Xeno scum Cardies, would the Maquis join them? 40K says that they are there to free humanity from alien slavery and allow humanity to rule. Would the Maquis see this as a means to take back their homes, but in doing so, sign a deal with the devil.
Probably.
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Post by Stormbringer » 2007-02-13 06:20pm

NecronLord wrote:
Azazal wrote:Hmmm, makes me wonder. Since they are showing up near Bajor, if they 40K folks started to cleanse the Xeno scum Cardies, would the Maquis join them? 40K says that they are there to free humanity from alien slavery and allow humanity to rule. Would the Maquis see this as a means to take back their homes, but in doing so, sign a deal with the devil.
Probably.
About the only thing that would seriously turn the Maquis away from the Imperium would be if the Guard in question were fanatics like the Tallaran or Krieg. Anyone else and the Imperial forces actually have a pretty good recruiting pool and may well find willing member worlds.
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Post by Imperial Overlord » 2007-02-13 10:23pm

The Imperials might think the Star Trek races are humans, until there is genetic testing done. They all fall within the 40K norms of human descent, appearing more human than ratlings or ogryns. They'll think the differences are environmental or genetic adaptations.
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Post by Inquisitor Ryan » 2007-02-13 10:52pm

Imperial Overlord wrote:The Imperials might think the Star Trek races are humans, until there is genetic testing done. They all fall within the 40K norms of human descent, appearing more human than ratlings or ogryns. They'll think the differences are environmental or genetic adaptations.
Except with Vulcans and Romulans who they'll see as some form of Eldar, that may not mean war but there will be little by the way of "pleasant" relations between the two.
And the Klingons attitude may suggest orkish characteristics to the Imperial troops.
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Post by Feil » 2007-02-14 12:07am

NecronLord wrote:
18-Till-I-Die wrote:Besides i'm fairly sure that they use Navigators and another, more primitive form of calculating jumps as well. If all else fails the 40k universe typically has a fallback.
Correct. Typically up to four light years per jump. You can see it in action in my last 40K fanfic </plug> which I should post more of.
If I'm not mistaken, the process of preparing a vessel for warp travel is one roughly proportionate to the size and complexity of the vessel; even a short trip through the Warp would require several hours of warm-up and cool-down time. Coordinating between multiple ships would only increase the amount of time required.

I would suspect that Astropaths would be unable to act, except over very short distances (for which radio communication would be superior anyway). The acquisition of local FTL communication aparati would be essential--particularly since a minor miscalculation in Warp travel could separate the two ships by many light-minutes.

Are the Trek races different species? They have identical body chemistry, can interbreed and yield sexually potent offspring, have identical physiognomies, eat the same food, take the same medicine, are adapted to 1G, 1atm of pressure in a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere, are vulnerable to the same diseases, etc, etc. Sure, the blood is a different color, but what's a little pigmentation against all the evidence in favor of them all being human?

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Post by 18-Till-I-Die » 2007-02-14 12:12am

Technically most of the important Star Trek races are the same species.

There was an ancient species called the Progenitors who sent Seeder Ships out to various planets and so like the Vulcans, Romulans, Klingons, Humans and i'd assume many others are all just evolutionary variants of the same root species...or at least that's what that TNG episode implied.

It really explains a lot, if true.
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Post by Lost Soal » 2007-02-14 02:09am

Inquisitor Ryan wrote:
Imperial Overlord wrote:The Imperials might think the Star Trek races are humans, until there is genetic testing done. They all fall within the 40K norms of human descent, appearing more human than ratlings or ogryns. They'll think the differences are environmental or genetic adaptations.
Except with Vulcans and Romulans who they'll see as some form of Eldar, that may not mean war but there will be little by the way of "pleasant" relations between the two.
And the Klingons attitude may suggest orkish characteristics to the Imperial troops.
I takes more than pointed ears for someone to cry Eldar. The bodily proportions are completely different, the head is elongated and even the way they move is described as being completely alien. Vulcans to the IoM are humans from a slightly higher gravity world who've developed pointed ears.
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Re: A cobra class destroyer in the Trekverse

Post by WhiteLion » 2019-09-05 01:54am

only one Cobra Destroyer I think can do very little, however superior as armament and defenses will be overwhelmed by the number, we speak of a single light ship against thousands of ships. Surely Melta torpedoes can pierce a planet, and cyclones can destroy it in one shot, but they are counted, I don't think I can do much Cobra once they are exhausted.
Obviously in the meantime it would destroy everything in its path, the DS9 would be pierced by a single torpedo Melta (if it passes through a planet let alone DS9), not even cyclonic torpedoes would be needed.

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Re: A cobra class destroyer in the Trekverse

Post by NecronLord » 2019-09-05 01:26pm

Whitelion, read the forum rules regarding bumping threads, this one is from 2007.
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