DW S34E4: Hide

[Captain Seafort]

Starts at 1845.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I quite enjoyed it. Nice to have that twist of what the beast was and the "ghost" herself.

Additionally, Stephen King references?

Psychic, haunted house = The Shining. Decaying world = The Langoliers. "There's something in the mist" = The Mist.

[jwl]

A spectacular episode. Best one this series.
I think I remember reading a DWM comic with a similar plotline, though.

[Parallax]

I have to admit, that was pretty good stuff! The best ep so far this season.

Though the one question I do have is ... how did the camera survive all those hostile environments that even the Doctor needed a suit for?

[Admiral Valdemar]

I have to admit, that was pretty good stuff! The best ep so far this season.

Though the one question I do have is ... how did the camera survive all those hostile environments that even the Doctor needed a suit for?

Nikon.

[jwl]

He's another thing. How come the doctor and that beast thing were fine riding on the outside of the TARDIS, but when jack does it it kills him?

[Parallax]

He's another thing. How come the doctor and that beast thing were fine riding on the outside of the TARDIS, but when jack does it it kills him?

I'll assume because the TARDIS didn't go through the time vortex in this ep, instead it went through dimensional barriers. That and the TARDIS was probably protecting the Doctor with a forcefield or something, whereas it really didn't want Jack hanging on so didn't bother.

[Captain Seafort]

I'll assume because the TARDIS didn't go through the time vortex in this ep, instead it went through dimensional barriers. That and the TARDIS was probably protecting the Doctor with a forcefield or something, whereas it really didn't want Jack hanging on so didn't bother.

Or they're simply a lot tougher than Jack. Killing him isn't difficult - it's making him stay dead that's tricky. The Doctor, on the other hand, has abseiled through the time vortex on occasion.

[El Moose Monstero]

Thought it was good, but the ending felt a bit rushed and seemed to contradict what they'd said ten minute previously. I've felt that this one and the last one could have done with being 15 minutes longer to let them pace out the ending properly - not quite enough for a 2 parter, but too much for 45 minutes.

[Captain Seafort]

I've felt that this one and the last one could have done with being 15 minutes longer to let them pace out the ending properly - not quite enough for a 2 parter, but too much for 45 minutes.

About right for an old-style three-parter then? At least it isn't quite as severe as Rings of Akhaten.

[Broomstick]

He's another thing. How come the doctor and that beast thing were fine riding on the outside of the TARDIS, but when jack does it it kills him?

Possible reasons:

1) They were traveling dimensionally instead of temporally.
2) The TARDIS was projecting some sort of protective forcefield/air corridor/whatever around them, whereas she did not do so for Jack
3) The Doctor has survived traveling the vortex outside a "protective shell" at least three times that I can recall: twice in "Inferno" and one in "The Doctor's Wife" so perhaps it's not as hazardous for Time Lords as for humans
4) The Doctor and "Romeo" were not clinging to the outside of the TARDIS as long as Jack was (if such duration has a comprehensible meaning in the time vortex), given they were just hopping between a pocket universe and the main universe whereas Jack was being dragged to the end of time trillions of years hence.

[Iroscato]

Damn that was good. The monster was creepy as fuck, right up to the reveal at the end. Next episode looks extremely interesting as well.
5/5.
I don't know why, but there's such a chasm between the first part of this series and the second. The first five episodes were all awful, but so far the last four have been superb. It's weird.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Lol @ the one zero vote. Care to come out and explain that one, Anonymous Coward?

[Rossum]

I'll own up to giving the "2" vote. In retrospect, the episode probably deserves better but I'm not exactly a fan of the "ghost story" angle and the scene where the Doctor was inside the pocket universe had some "Why aren't you being smarter about this?!" moments. Like how the Doctor has the girl head back through the portal using his only lifeline (and basically stranding himself there).

The revelation about "Romeo" was nice but as mentioned before was really rushed and since he tells the thing "I'll take you somewhere safe!" and we never see him drop it off, I'm left thinking that the Doctor has two freaky looking boogeymen people in his TARDIS and the first thing we see next episode will be the newly reuinited lovebirds stepping out onto their new home. Which would be hilarious except that I know they would never actually do that and next ep is on some kind of weird burning salvage ship (which would make things awkward).

I mean, last time Doc had a couple on the Tardis, he got River Song. What would Romeo and his girl result in?

[Eternal_Freedom]

Well that was pretty damn good. I liked the ghost story aspect, the monster was creepy, the supporting cast were interesting. Woudl have given it a 5 if not for the rushed ending.

It's also interesting to see the TARDIS actually talking to Clara. I don't recall Sexy actually talking to a companion before. Also, I like the fact that the Doctor has no idea what the monster is. It was something I noticed during Tennant's run that he would always know at least something, so it's nice to see him like this.

[The Romulan Republic]

I didn't like this episode very much, but it had some good parts.

I kind of liked the Doctor's conversation with the the ghost hunting man (I forget what his name is). I also liked some of the atmosphere in the alternate universe and some of the music.

And the psychic girl gave Clara good advice when she said to not trust the Doctor. The Eleventh Doctor is a bastard.

Clara's conversation with the TARDIS is interesting. But didn't the Doctor say in season six that the TARDIS can't communicate? And if it can, why doesn't it more often? And I am a bit annoyed by Clara insulting the TARDIS.

[Broomstick]

The problem isn't that the TARDIS can't communicate, the problem is that the TARDIS is such an alien intelligence that communication is nearly impossible. It's like a blind person and a deaf person trying to having a conversation, they need a lot of help to get that done and stuff might get lost in translation, only it's even worse than that.

Sexy/Idris was able to talk to the Doctor and others directly only because she was forced into a "flesh body" and that was killing the body she was in. The TARDIS as the TARDIS probably has such alien senses and perspective that common terms are hard to find.

On another forum there are people saying the voice interface is a cheat somehow and allowing Sexy to now talk to other people but it isn't - it's a crude "translation" device between the TARDIS and others. It only responds to very direct and specific questions and doesn't always make the best sense in context. I can only assume Sexy has as much trouble understanding people as people have understanding her.

[Parallax]

It's been a long held theory, and backed up in The Doctor's Wife', that the TARDIS knows what is going to happen nearly all the time (temporal sensors, etc. Whatever the hell you want to call it) and that is why the Doctor ends up in endless adventures - the TARDIS takes him to where he needs to be, not always where he wants to be.

Most of the time, the TARDIS would already know that the Doctor will be able to save himself or will be saved by someone else, so doesn't really care and doesn't need to intervene. Yet, in Hide, it's clear that the Doctor is stuck in a place where the TARDIS has effectively no knowledge of and doesn't know what will happen to the Doctor. The sounding of the Cloister Bell seems to have been the TARDIS stressing out about the situation and resorting to the hologram seems to be just an extension of that desperation. Desperate situations call for desperate measures and all that.

Broomstick is always right in that the TARDIS intelligence is also incredibly different to how we understand intelligence/life/perception. How it all works is almost a complete unknown but we do know that the TARDIS is alive and sees things so differently to even how the Doctor does; just look out how much difficulty Idris/Sexy had with tenses when speaking with the Doctor. I get the feeling that when the TARDIS tries to communicate with 'ordinary' life, it'd be like a person trying to communicate with a mouse - technically possible in a limited way but really damn difficult and only very limited success can be possible.

[Broomstick]

It also ties into my theory the the reason the TARDIS doesn't translate Circle Gallifreyan into English or whatever is not some Time Lord Keeping Secrets Device but because she can't translate it if you don't have the concepts already in your head. If you don't understand time and the complex relationships between temporal events what's written in CG simply won't compute in your head.

Likewise, she can communicate "if I go into that pocket universe I will be incapacitated in 4 seconds and will die in 10" because we all have those concepts already in our heads. You know, when we last saw the voice interface in "Let's Kill Hitler" she was also extremely precise in saying how long the Doctor had to live, but otherwise it was really hard to communicate with her and get answers both meaningful and useful. On the other hand she can't communicate "you need to go here at this particular space-time coordinate because you did/do/will do X, Y, and Z" because how she understands it and how we understand it are two totally different ways of thinking about something. It can't translate. Maybe her time as Sexy/Idris using humanoid senses and brain make it easier for her to understand creatures like us, but we didn't really get any insight to her normal way of existing.

If I had to come up with an analogy it might be thus: trainers can communicate they want a certain action out of trained dolphins, and a group of dolphins will perform that action, but the dolphins don't have a good understanding of why they are being asked to do that, and the trainers don't understand how the dolphins coordinate among each other to perform a group trick. Communication occurs and work is performed as required on both sides (the trainers, after all, do reward the dolphins) but neither side really understands the other.

I have to say, despite criticism, having Sexy Thing as a genuine intelligence and independent entity does occasionally allow for a truly alien sort of alien in the show. Not to mention the occasional "WTF? What are you DOING?" moment, like in "Cold War" when Sexy takes off leaving the Doctor to really have to solve the problem at hand and not simply evacuate the submarine crew, leaving a ship full of nukes in the hands of an Ice Warrior. Not so much taking him where he needs to be as forcing him to stay where he needs to be.

Well, we know what the Time Lords, especially the Doctor, get out of the TL/TARDIS relationship but I have to wonder what the TARDISes get out of it? Maybe we wouldn't really understand, not have a TARDIS viewpoint?

It is interesting that both the Doctor and Sexy seem willing to risk their own lives for the benefits of total strangers. Maybe that's why they're still together after 700 years?

[jwl]

Anyone else notice the sherlock holmes reference?

I'll own up to giving the "2" vote. In retrospect, the episode probably deserves better but I'm not exactly a fan of the "ghost story" angle and the scene where the Doctor was inside the pocket universe had some "Why aren't you being smarter about this?!" moments. Like how the Doctor has the girl head back through the portal using his only lifeline (and basically stranding himself there).

The plan was to let the rope back down again afterwards, just the psychic connection failed.

[Surlethe]

I love love LOVED the twist at the end. Psychological horror stories really get to me, so it was very nice having the monster really end up in love. There were serious pacing issues in the last ten minutes. In fact, this entire half-season, except The Bells of St John, seems to have had bad pacing.

Well, we know what the Time Lords, especially the Doctor, get out of the TL/TARDIS relationship but I have to wonder what the TARDISes get out of it? Maybe we wouldn't really understand, not have a TARDIS viewpoint?

"I wanted to see the universe! What makes you think I would ever give you up?"

[The Romulan Republic]

But the TARDIS has moved on its own hasn't it? Maybe it helps to have a pilot, but I don't think its essential.

I think she needs someone to deal with crises. Depending on how much she knows about the future, she may know the universe will end if the Doctor doesn't save it. And she can't save it herself because her ability to interact with other things is limited. So she needs a Time Lord to deal with that crap.

Also, the Doctor can repair her when she breaks.

[Broomstick]

And guide her to rifts full of energy! Yummmmm... nom! nom! nom!

[Gandalf]

That was so dull I fell asleep twice.

I just couldn't bring myself to stay interested in this story, though the scene where Clara deals with the limited nature of humans relative to the Doctor was worth a watch. Maybe this will be the season's arc or something.

[Parallax]

But the TARDIS has moved on its own hasn't it? Maybe it helps to have a pilot, but I don't think its essential.

I think she needs someone to deal with crises. Depending on how much she knows about the future, she may know the universe will end if the Doctor doesn't save it. And she can't save it herself because her ability to interact with other things is limited. So she needs a Time Lord to deal with that crap.

Also, the Doctor can repair her when she breaks.

The inability to interact would probably be in there, certainly. Sure, the TARDIS can fly itself and go where/when ever it wants but so what? It can't interact, it can't talk to inhabitants, taste the food or whatever. That's is what it probably needs the Doctor for, to act as it's link to the rest of the universe so it can experience these things (symbiotic link with the Doctor and what have you).
Maybe it just needs a pilot to keep it grounded in the Universe as we know it, so it's alien senses don't lose focus or something.

On another topic: What did the Doctor call the Metabelis III crystal? A subset of the Eye of Harmony?