Iron Man 3 *SPOILERS*

[Admiral Valdemar]

So, still sitting in the cinema as the end credit sting is awaited. Has anyone else seen this yet? I'm... Mixed on it. While it was enjoyable, and certainly better than the second film, I still felt like something was amiss. I need time to think about it, especially as the ending seems to indicate this is it for Tony as Iron Man, rather oddly. A bluff, no doubt.

But, yeah. One thing this reminded me of was something like Resident Evil 5/6 mixed with Iton Man, mixes with Sherlock Holmes.

And just seen the end credit sting. Nothing to indicate anything for a sequel or other Marvel tie in.

EDIT: oh yeah, the suits? They suffer ninja law of inverse numbers. More of them, fully useless.

EDIT 2: The Mandarin. Haha, oh man. What. The people thinking this was going to be too grimdark and not light hearted enough were WAY off base. The use of anxiety from The Avengers in NYC replaces the whole alcoholism thing again, as the suit poisoning did in the second film.

[Eternal_Freedom]

It was...underwhelming for me. Yes it was fun and impressive in places but it didn't feel like an Iron Man film. The reveal at the end that they can get the shrapnel out all of a sudden felt awfully convinient. Obviousy it's all a ruse and Thor and Rodgers will have to come get him out of retirement for Avengers 2.

The Mandarin was different and amusingly so. As for the superpower drugs, that just felt really out of place, especially in Iron Man which is all about heroes using technology to do their stuff, not freaky heat powers that you get from a drug.

[Cykeisme]

I dislike this film on more than one level.

Foremost is the fact that, since the first film, they dropped hints to build toward the Mandarin, with the terrorist organization being called "The Ten Rings".
Now they piss it all away.
Is the movie version of Aldritch Killian supposed to be impressive and imposing? Is he supposed to make a mark in our minds as a memorable movie villain?

Also, Tony's technology being made of tissue paper is another gripe. Why not just cut down the number of suits featured, instead of having tons of them, but having them fall apart like lego?

Aside from that, I can't put my finger on it, but the mood, tone and feel of the film seemed to be different from what we got used to in the first two Iron Man films and Avengers.

[Gandalf]

It was...underwhelming for me. Yes it was fun and impressive in places but it didn't feel like an Iron Man film. The reveal at the end that they can get the shrapnel out all of a sudden felt awfully convinient.

I liked it because it didn't feel like an IM film. He's clearly learned lessons from his previous cinematic outings, and now he's dealing with that fallout.

Obviousy it's all a ruse and Thor and Rodgers will have to come get him out of retirement for Avengers 2.

Also, RDJ is not signed for Avengers 2.

[The Xeelee]

Haven't seen it yet but how do they explain the Hulks absence?

[Gandalf]

He's just not mentioned, except for the post credits sequence.

[Eternal_Freedom]

It was...underwhelming for me. Yes it was fun and impressive in places but it didn't feel like an Iron Man film. The reveal at the end that they can get the shrapnel out all of a sudden felt awfully convinient.

I liked it because it didn't feel like an IM film. He's clearly learned lessons from his previous cinematic outings, and now he's dealing with that fallout.

See, I understand that. I think it would have worked well as a stand-alone film, but it doesn't fit with the other IM films, which since it's billed as IM3 is a problem.

Obviousy it's all a ruse and Thor and Rodgers will have to come get him out of retirement for Avengers 2.

Also, RDJ is not signed for Avengers 2.

Now that I did not know. Puts a different spin on it.

Also, I know it's difficult to comment and compare sources of PTSD and so on, but I would have thought that his capture and imprisonment in the first film would have had a larger affect on him than the events in New York.

[Stark]

Given his changing mental state it doesn't seem odd to me at all.

[Admiral Valdemar]

His capture by The Ten Rings in the first IM most certainly did impact on his mental state. He turned from being a playboy weapons manufacturer into a playboy philanthropist (after a fashion). It didn't make him curl into a ball and drink himself into a stupor. It just made him reassess his entire life up till that point.

I'm sure you could say that after everything he's been through, it's now hit home that he's not invulnerable, he has people to look after and there are others out there that can do the job of Iron Man as well. Unlike in Doctor Who, people remember that NYC was attacked by freakin' aliens and gods not that long ago. So everything has turned upside down and Tony's brash, egocentric personality is really a facade hiding the fact that he is really quite insecure inside and troubled. It's a recurring theme in the comics that he's self-loathing and depressed along with having a drinking problem. They at least got the first two somewhat shown in the films, if not the third because... Disney.

If you were Tony Stark, would you still be so gung-ho after what he's been through over the last five years or so?

[AniThyng]

I think you're supposed to be lead to believe he's not done with being iron man by the part where he towed the robot arm away at the end. It not like he needs the arc reactor in him to have a suit.

Also, isn't extremis a iron man comic thing anyway?

Still. The stinger was hilarious.

[Kojiro]

I didn't hate it, but it had some burning stupid in it I couldn't ignore. Apologies for the rant. I feel very let down by this film.

From the trailer (which let's face it is just a huge giant lie- but I'm ok with that) I assumed that the attack on Stark's home was preemptive. Some old grudge or simply the desire to remove the biggest threat. It never occurred to me that the attack was invited because I couldn't imagine anyone short of SHIELD being able to crack Tony when he was on a defensive footing. First we get this speech from Tony about how Pepper is the one thing he can't live without and how he has to protect her (and how she lives there now too). Now I understand he's upset by what happens to Happy but calling out a terrorist- especially one who has made 9 successful domestic attacks and take out at least one US Air Force base- just seems staggeringly stupid. Ok he's angry and he's super arrogant Tony Stark, so maybe that overrides his desire to protect Pepper for a few minutes. I can actually get that.

What I can't fathom is after giving your address (presumably they could have got it anyway, but still) where you and your partner lives... staying there. Ok, he's Tony Stark, a couple years ago he went public with his identity, and Vanko can't be his only enemy. But if anyone could make a home- one we know is heavily customised- a real challenge for a terrorist attack it's Tony Stark. I mean the place already has an AI that can detect incoming missiles (assuming it has access to radar) and Stark has made a weapon system or two in his time. I hear he's also pretty decent with making things pretty tough.

But it's worse than that. Happy has already told us (and we've seen) there's dozens of Iron Man suits at the place. We don't know it yet but they're all combat ready and AI controlled. So how many of these are deployed to watch for terrorist attacks? To guard Pepper? Just as general sentries? None. Not a one. Ok, sure, he's Tony Stark, he's really arrogant. He's paranoid enough to answer the doorbell in a suit so he's clearly not oblivious to the threat. But why that suit? That thing has malfunctioned twice in the last 48 hours and is an unfinished, untested, non-weaponised prototype. Why oh why have that suit as the only one nearby when you're expecting an attack?!

Just one AI Iron Man suit walking around on the roof would have completely altered things. It could have possibly intercepted the attack and I think it's quite fair to suggest that Iron Man>covert attack chopper. But no, tell them where you are, stay there, prepare literally no defenses, deploy no suits and make sure the only suit available is gimp.

It gets even worse than that though. After locating the Mandarin compound what does Tony do? Oh and he's now had a run in with two Extremis troopers and is aware the Mandarin has been making and employing metahumans. He doesn't have an Iron Man suit (seriously how much rubble does it take to bury 30+ Iron Man suits?) and the guy is 800 odd miles away, presumably guarded by more metahumans. Does he a) call the DoHS and let them deal with it. b) call his buddy Rhodes who does have a suit and is actually tasked with finding this guy c) think that international super terrorist + metahumans = speed dial Nick Fury d) Tell absolutely no one. Then hit up a Home Depot and Bill and Ted up some equipment arguably less practical than what he could buy off the shelf in Texas, then drive 800 miles and think for a moment he's Captain America and storm the terrorist compound solo. Much as I enjoy watching RDJ fumble around killing mooks I kept asking myself why the Mandarin asset wasn't protected by at least one Extremis mook.

Perhaps even more puzzling is how the US Air Force treats Iron Patriot. Now I'm not military expert but if an asset like that was lost in Pakistan- it just stopped transmitting (and how this was even achieved is puzzling) any communications, IFF or GPS- someone would be looking the hell into it. Drones would be dispatched (if they weren't watching already) and possibly even a rescue attempt (it does have a soldier in it after all). In short though it's not the kind of thing they're likely to just write off. So when the Iron Patriot reappears in Florida- 9000 miles away from it's last mission someone is going to ask some god damn questions. What they are NOT going to do- especially on the heels of 'I'm going to kill your president!'- is immediately assign the lost asset to guard the president. Certainly they wouldn't do that without some sort of security check or verification beyond 'yep, that looks just like the one we lost'.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but was the whole purpose of the Mandarin to essentially sell Extremis? To create a market? I'm reasonably certain that a drug that restored people to perfect health, made them faster, stronger, tougher and nigh unkillable would have a reasonably easy time finding a place in the market. Sure it's not perfected yet but the results they can show so far are pretty damn impressive.

And the big fight at the end. Ok, 34 odd suits show up. Cool. Very cool. Time to blast those Extremis punks into the dust. I mean, if you think about it, they're basically Wolverine clones. Super human attributes, insane regenerative capabilities and if you get within arms reach you might as well be wearing tissue paper. But that's cool, with 34 Iron Man suits you must have at least 100 ranged weapon systems you can bring to bear on them, and since none of them can fly... Granted it's not a very cinematic ending but that's why it's bad writing. The AI suits have zero reason to engage in hand to hand combat. Yet amazingly they get in close as they can and unsurprisingly has a staggering loss rate, especially give then durability of previous suits. Starks only objective here should have been to get Pepper and get out. If possible the president too but Pepper first.

And why give Pepper Extremis? Just to cause pain? There are easier ways that don't result in creating a super powered adversary. To kill her? Well again, easier ways.

All in all there were several choices made in this movie that were just boggling to me. Stark survives and triumphs in this film by nothing more than luck. Luck he never caught a bullet, luck none of those missile had any real explosives (they detonate like 5 feet from him!), luck he met that helpful kid/tech, luck the mother happens to have the file he needs on her, luck he never ran into an Extremis guard, luck to just survive the firefights, luck Killian wanted him alive (though why again?), luck Pepper had been given and survived Extremis and of course luck that Killian never used that nifty fire breathing trick again.

And the ending... well I can see why Joss Whedon wasn't thrilled. At least some part of it will have to be either ignored, retconned or undone. It also flies in the face of his speech to Banner in Avengers, about how the implant/Hulk are a part of them to be embraced. I really hope they don't go with the nano armour in the bones thing. That's just too comic book for the big screen. Even in RDJ isn't signed on to do Avengers 2 I don't think that'd stop them from replacing him if he declined. Huge pressure on whoever gets that job but I doubt they'd just ditch IM.

I'm not even going to really pick on things like 'they're all coded to me' (except when Pepper needs it), handshake cripples Iron Patriot but doesn't shut it down, repairing Stark tech is apparently not that hard or time consuming, charging, IM suit off a car battery, making disposable repulsors in garages or suits that push tech into magic territory or other nit pics.

And yes, Extremis was a comic thing. In it there's a single guy who has the Extremis going on a rampage. Stark gets a modified shot of it after losing badly to him to a) save his live b) rewrite his body to be a control system for the IM suit. It is from this he gets the ability to 'summon' it where as in the movie he just implants some doodads and gets same thing.

[Stark]

I'm not sure how any of that is really dumber than the dumb stuff in previous movies.

[Kojiro]

Like the Injustice vs MvC fighting games, I think they bug me because I'm not immersed enough to overlook them. I'm sure they're there in other films but I wasn't so bored/disinterested/distracted that I noticed them. Like I said, I can overlook technical glitches (or as one friend put it 'If Pepper is 3000 degrees her bra should melt damn it!') but stupid characters just put me right off a story. Stupid characters who are supposed to be geniuses even more so. Maybe it's the GM in me but stupid characters need to be punished if the behaviour recurs.

[Delta_Squad]

Kojiro, Pepper was given the Extremis drug in order to motivate Tony to work on fixing it so the people wouldnt explode, not just to torture and kill her.

[AniThyng]

I totally forgot to mention that the Bill Maher cameo was spot on and also hilarious.

[PainRack]

Can someone answer this question of the bomb attacks?

There was a throwaway line in the movie where Stark accuses the villians of claiming credit for terrorist attacks which were in reality drug addicts who weren't able to regulate.


If we recast the Mandarin along those lines, then the villain plot makes much more sense. The Mandarin was a cover story to cover AIM failures, which Aldritch megalomania recast to secure more power and ultimately, as a cry for glory in the end when he started showing his face to the President and etc. A psychopath acting out.

But that will make one wonder WHY nobody in the military connected exploding bases to Extremis

[andrewgpaul]

Did they know? It seemed to me that AIM recruited veterans (were they all military? I don't know) who weren't being helped by normal services, for whatever reason.

[Ford Prefect]

I actually liked it better than either of the two previous films, because the film was actually about Tony coming to terms with himself as a person and what being 'Iron Man' meant to him, and how it had been a psychological crutch in the past but was doing him more harm than good now. Like the way in which the Mk 42 is pretty much a failure which never operates as intended (even its one success is tempered by getting hit by that truck and being taken out of action for ages) is thematically emblematic of how the suits can't fix Tony's life. Like it can't even successfully ice Aldritch with a suicide attack. The sense of finality is appropriate and not half-assed.

[Kojiro]

Kojiro, Pepper was given the Extremis drug in order to motivate Tony to work on fixing it so the people wouldnt explode, not just to torture and kill her.

How does this motivate him though? Either she'll die and Killian will most certainly not get Tony's help or her body will accept it and then 'curing' her is of dubious concern. The mere fact Killian doesn't know which it'll do again makes this a daft plan. Either forever make Tony your enemy (even more so) or give your current enemy a super powered ally (that eventually kills you).

[PainRack]

Kojiro, Pepper was given the Extremis drug in order to motivate Tony to work on fixing it so the people wouldnt explode, not just to torture and kill her.

How does this motivate him though? Either she'll die and Killian will most certainly not get Tony's help or her body will accept it and then 'curing' her is of dubious concern. The mere fact Killian doesn't know which it'll do again makes this a daft plan. Either forever make Tony your enemy (even more so) or give your current enemy a super powered ally (that eventually kills you).

The "drug" seems to require regular dosing, either through addiction or something else. That's why the whole "can you regulate" scene popped up before Happy got exposed.

Did they know? It seemed to me that AIM recruited veterans (were they all military? I don't know) who weren't being helped by normal services, for whatever reason.

Considering that Stark gained access to those videos via Rhodes, through some kinda military uplink or shit, if they didn't, it must had been a black ops project run by the government. Which will suggest either staggeringly incompetence or just sheer..... I don't know, magic if the government had no monitoring of Extremis results.


One question though: My mates kept insisting that the cameo at the end? That was Bruce Banner. Is it?

[AniThyng]

Yeah it's Bruce banner. He's not that kind of doctor.

I hope there is a throwaway line in winter soldier where the president dryly notes that cap wasn't around when he got strung up.

[Kojiro]

The "drug" seems to require regular dosing, either through addiction or something else. That's why the whole "can you regulate" scene popped up before Happy got exposed.

See I thought that right up til Killian shot the genius designer/creator Maya(?). If she's essential- and he wants Tony to replace her- he's just bet his life on whether Pepper survives the treatment because as I said, if she dies Tony is certainly not going to help and letting them blow up sorta solves the problem by default. It also irks me that he's even capable of fixing the issue given it lies completely outside his field of expertise. Shit why not just remake the Captain America serum if he can knock out Extremis in a few days?

Considering that Stark gained access to those videos via Rhodes, through some kinda military uplink or shit, if they didn't, it must had been a black ops project run by the government. Which will suggest either staggeringly incompetence or just sheer..... I don't know, magic if the government had no monitoring of Extremis results.

That data was available to Rhodes if he just looked for it it seems. I think there's a line about Extremis' funding coming originally from defense contracts too, so I think it's government funded in some way so government personnel having access to results makes a degree of sense. And let's not forget the Vice President knows about it apparently. Regardless the results of Extremis are very impressive- I can't imagine they'd have trouble securing more funding given what they could demonstrate.

[Delta_Squad]

How does this motivate him though? Either she'll die and Killian will most certainly not get Tony's help or her body will accept it and then 'curing' her is of dubious concern. The mere fact Killian doesn't know which it'll do again makes this a daft plan. Either forever make Tony your enemy (even more so) or give your current enemy a super powered ally (that eventually kills you).

I figured he would have just given Pepper a large dose of the drug to kill her if it came to that, just like the scientist threatened to do to kill them all when she started to have doubts about helping Killian. I doubt that pissing Tony off even more was much of a concern for him at that point considering he had already captured Tony.

[Kojiro]

Pepper's well being is the chip that Killian is trading on, his leverage over Tony. By giving her the serum he removes that power form himself. Surely it's much simpler and less risky to just maim her? No risk of her exploding or becoming a meta human threat. Make Extremis the only way to heal her and Tony is almost guaranteed to work for her. The other flaw is that super advanced biotech isn't Tony's field- Maya was a genius in her field and had been working on Extremis for over 12 years. There's a very real chance Tony simply couldn't fix it (granted it turns out he could, but then it turns out Pepper kills Killian. Hindsight and all that).

[Crown]

That movie was really dumb. Not really dumb as in OMG-WORST-MOVIE-EVAH-QQ NERD RAGE!!!! But really dumb as in it pulled me out of my suspension of disbelief too often to say I 'enjoyed' it.

So many wasted opportunities with storylines and actors. The only one who (funnily enough) wasn't wasted was Sir Ben Kingsley both as a plot twist and just screen time, perfect.