Cain's Last Stand(Spoilers !) [Warhammer 40.000]

[Luzifer's right hand]

I finished reading the book yesterday, while not quite as good as the other books in the Ciaphas Cain series it was nevertheless fun to read.
It's always fun Cain when he goes "OMFG NECRONS!" though.

The Hrud are mentioned again, they have been mentioned in quite a few WH40K books I have read, must be a rather widespread race.

A small ship(the man in command of SDF boats thought they could take it) which was most likely a Jackal Raider(Inquisitor Vails comment) more or less instant-gibed two smaller than cruisers-size chaos ships and than destroyed a number of other ships including one identified as a cruiser(by teleporting boarders it seems).
However the technology used by the Necrons in the Cain books seems to warp based, but it's from his point of view and the only teleport technology he knows is warp based.

Necrons hide their glowy parts if the need arises. :p

Something that might by of interest for some of the number crunchers here.
Cain is fighting combat servitors(which are incredible stupid btw), one uses a plasma cannon(a rather heavy thing, with power caples connecting to it's body).

I dived behind the obelisk just as the plasma cannon recharged, and a searing bolt of star-stuff roared past the glittering limp of ironmongery, finally expending itself in the lake beyond.
A thousand litres of water flashed instantly into steam ...

In general Inquisitor Vail comments on it when Cain describe something that is not really realistic(like when he claims shortly afterwards that a plasma bolt passes millimetres from him and he does not get burns) which suggests that it is a rather accurate description.
The Planet they are on is pretty earth like irrc, which should but the weapon in the GJ range(Enthalpy of vaporization of water is 2,26 MJ/kg iirc).

[Teleros]

Hmm, two things I'll say about this:

1. The thousand litres of water as evidence has to be suspect, given that it's dialogue from an often unreliable witness (plus, how did he measure it?). I wouldn't dismiss it, but I'd be wary of using it as evidence.

2. Cain regularly seems to mention Necron warp-based technology (including Pariah auras being a Warp-based phenomenon, when they're meant to be like Jurgen's aura). I'd reckon that this is simply a case of Cain being ignorant of what the Necrons actually use, and just assuming it's Warp-based. No reason why a Necron wormhole couldn't glow green and all that, like the "warp portal" in Caves of Ice.

3. Yes, Necron ships are absurdly powerful in the fluff. 5 light cruisers went through Mars' orbital defences before being destroyed, with 1 actually able to land on Mars.

4. Damnit, when is my copy going to arrive ?

[Ford Prefect]

(including Pariah auras being a Warp-based phenomenon, when they're meant to be like Jurgen's aura).

Strictly speaking blank effects are Warp effects, after a fashion.

[NecronLord]

I was, as one can imagine, rather pleased with the ending of this book. Particularly a confirmation of the idea that necron ships' power outputs are an order of magnitude or so above those of comparably sized Imperium ships, given that a Jackal has little difficulty with an entire chaos flotilla.

[fgalkin]

On an interesting sidenote, it appears that celibacy is not a requirement for the Sisters of Battle. So much for Nuns with Guns, although the fanboys will be getting rather pleased, I imagine.

Also, the Spoiler

Hitler

Chaos Lord was rather hilarious, too.

I don't agree that it was weaker than the other books, Caves of Ice still holds that dubious honor. Cain's Last Stand is pretty good, on par with the other Shadowlight trilogy books.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Lonestar]

On an interesting sidenote, it appears that celibacy is not a requirement for the Sisters of Battle. So much for Nuns with Guns, although the fanboys will be getting rather pleased, I imagine.

There's something weird about Spoiler

[ a Sister making booty calls with an Administratum officer.

[The Yosemite Bear]

given the title does this mean that: Spoiler

Is commisar peace and love really dead?

[Stormbringer]

given the title does this mean that: Spoiler

Is commisar peace and love really dead?

Spoiler

Technically, he's been dead since the first book (and we've got a description of his funeral). But no, he doesn't die in this book.

[andrewgpaul]

I liked the references to, at last count, 'Allo 'Allo, A. J. P. Taylor and the author of a treatise on Orks called The Fungoid Menace who's name is Migo Yuggoth.

Also, one thing I like about thse books, more than the Gaunt series, is that almost all the stuff mentioned already exists, rather than making stuff up, like Abnett does. I realise this is just a personal view, and it doesn't make these books better per se.

[Dartzap]

Also, one thing I like about thse books, more than the Gaunt series, is that almost all the stuff mentioned already exists, rather than making stuff up, like Abnett does. I realise this is just a personal view, and it doesn't make these books better per se.

Well he is the 41st millennia version of Flashman. Why bother with making stuff up when there's lots of interesting stuff already to be explored differently?

[NecronLord]

A version of the cast of 'Dad's Army' also appears in this book, for those that are keeping track of the references.

[andrewgpaul]

Aha! Yes, I knew I'd missed one.

The whole cast? I recognised Lance Corporal Jones (although he didn't say "Don't panic!" once ). Were the rest there, or was it just the concept of the PDV in general?

[Teleros]

Don't forget Starfleet's space station, Delta Sigma Novem .

[Lancer]

So, any guesses on what the shadowlight weapon was? The description of how it functions sounds exactly like what the Talismans of Vaul do, just on a much smaller scale. Maybe an early prototype of Eldar D-cannon technology?

[andrewgpaul]

Not sure, really. It's a bit big for a widget, so I'd say it was a macguffin.

[Vanas]

It sounded like they were worried that it would sort of break reality if set to 11. Maybe it was an Anti-Pylon or something. And it's nice to see everyone's old, old, old, old friends back and for once being subtle about it. Until they're not.

I did also note that the PDF team at the start were hitting the 'nid warrior with five rapid rounds apiece for the reference spotters.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

The weapon servitors were very obviously inspired by the Daleks.

"Terminate! Terminate!"

[Connor MacLeod]

Also, one thing I like about thse books, more than the Gaunt series, is that almost all the stuff mentioned already exists, rather than making stuff up, like Abnett does. I realise this is just a personal view, and it doesn't make these books better per se.

You're kidding, right? Mitchell does that as much if not moreso than Abnett does. The difference is that Mitchell has his tongue planted firmly in his cheek, an obvious homage to the aspects of 40K that were more humorous than grrimdark.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

I don't think so, Connor. Usually when Mitchell makes something up, it is something cultural or otherwise not covered by the existing fluff. Abnett makes shit up, and sometimes pretty darn weird shit, at the drop of a hat.

Just off the top of my head, instead of using established chaos or xenos beings or some sort of exceptionally rare creature or concept, Abnett instead comes up with: wirewolves; whatever those things in His Last Command were; brass thief entities that existed before/separately from daemons; blood pact; loxotl; Enuncia; a daemon prince with chaos spaceship (that worked in real space!) who apparently predated Chaos; Megarachnids; Omegon; psykers with 'mutant abilities'; stalk tanks, etc, etc. Many of these things fill a role that has already been filled by canonical entities or ideas. Many apparently exist as common chaotic creatures that are somehow isolated only in the Sabbat worlds, despite the nature of chaos. What has Sandy Mitchell made up, besides the occasional humorous reference?

Now, I don't think it interferes with Abnett's writing too much (although Ravenor started to feel more like an X-Men novel than Warhammer), or with the setting, but it can be a frustrating habit for a reader who wants to have consistency.

[Stormbringer]

Abnett instead comes up with: wirewolves;

Warpcraft golems. Sorcerous creatures are a dime a dozen in 40k. Simply creating one type is hardly radical.

whatever those things in His Last Command were;

You mean the re-worked Imperial Guardsmen? I hate to break it to you but that's hardly something surprising; the mutants from the Lost and the Damned list could easily fit the bill. He put a sort-of zombies in a space-age horror franchise. Again hardly anything radical.

brass thief entities that existed before/separately from daemons;

You mean the daemon? There's nothing new about that. The brass thief was unusual, for 40k fiction, for predating the rise of the four major Chaos Powers but that's nothing too radical. We know that the warps been around from the beginning of time and has been littered since the beginning with such random creations. How is an old daemon particularly new? Heck, if you want to get nit-picky the daemon-lord from Hereticus is probably more canon breaking.

Nothing terribly radical for 40k and actually pretty common for WHFB fluff. If anything, just a logical extension of the fluff.

blood pact;

Lost and the Damned list. He did put a stamp on things by creating a Chaos army that's not Chaos Marines or hordes of rampaging idiots. But that's one of those things that really ought to have been taken for granted in the fluff. We've heard of major defections of the Imperial Army/Guard since the days of the Horus Heresy. Why should they be limited to screaming maniacs?

loxotl;

Admittedly freaky and admittedly Abnett's creation. But there's always been the understanding that there are a lot of nasty aliens out there. It's been part of the fluff from day one that there are hostile (or indifferent) alien species out there. Why not show them when you have the chance in a long running series?

Enuncia;

Ritual warpcraft. There's nothing new about the concept and the application isn't exactly that different from that of a whole lot of horror movies. It's a new creation but nothing that should be jarring.

a daemon prince with chaos spaceship (that worked in real space!) who apparently predated Chaos;

Again, Chaos is incredibly ancient. The first of the entities were probably created by the wars of the first sapient species, the Old Ones and C'tan. Why should an ancient survivor come as a surprise, especially since we see the tomb of one in Hereticus?

Megarachnids;

Freaky freaky aliens. Neither new nor unexpected. The Great Crusade put foot to ass of a lot of species. Why is the depiction of one such race, especially with the classics not being around, something especially new?

Omegon;

Freaky freaky aliens?

psykers with 'mutant abilities';

How so? They've been established for a long time to have wide-ranging abilities. Through in the fact that many of the are chaos dabblers and it's a pretty normal thing.

stalk tanks, etc, etc.

Chaos has weird war-machines and they were created around the time of VDR. Why not have some chaos equipment that isn't a mirror image/rip off of Imperial tech?

Many of these things fill a role that has already been filled by canonical entities or ideas. Many apparently exist as common chaotic creatures that are somehow isolated only in the Sabbat worlds, despite the nature of chaos.

What has Sandy Mitchell made up, besides the occasional humorous reference?

The shadowlight for one. Working machinery from the Old Ones. Which may have played a part in spawning Chaos itself. And has a planetoid of Necrons watching it.

Pile on top of that the fact that Alex Stewart has done a huge amount with the culture of the Imperium, being one of the first to actually show 40ks pop-culture not least. The whole notion of Ciaphas Cain rests on something which is a huge break from the norm in 40k in general. There's a fair amount of world building and he's definitely put a stamp on things. Stewart may not have done as much as Abnett but he's done some rather far reaching things.

Now, I don't think it interferes with Abnett's writing too much (although Ravenor started to feel more like an X-Men novel than Warhammer), or with the setting, but it can be a frustrating habit for a reader who wants to have consistency.

True but consistency can also be the bane of creativity. Why should everything have to come from a source book? Why should the universe be stifled? Nothing he'd one has been exactly been setting breaking. Many of them are really things already implicit in the setting, either ignored or simply not explored previously.

Abnett contributed a lot because he was one of the early writers and is certainly the most prolific. With that in mind, it's not surprise what so ever that he created a lot. Why shouldn't he have?

[Shroom Man 777]

You've got a funny Inquisitor and her silly savant enjoying watching Imperial TV shows like Attack Run! - which is, like, Top Gun with improbable kill counts! - and Arbitrator Foreboding thanks to Sandy Mitchell. You've got a Commissar borrowing an Inquisitorial savant to go around bankrupting casinos. You've got Inquisitor Amberley enjoying ice cream. You've got Commissar Cain picking up a flower and putting it on an Inquisitor's ear, in a totally impulsive whimsical act of wuv!

How can that not be awesome? The Cain books actually make the 40k verse seem somewhat sane, livable and populated with likable - if a bit silly - people. That's a big break from 40k norm, but a very welcome one.

[Vanas]

Don't forget the children's rhymes (The Tracks of the Land Raider Crush the Heretics) and Our Friend Prometheum (More Burning Heretics) giving us a quick glimpse into the lives of Imperial citizens who don't live in some screaming nightmare of non-burning heretics and daemons or xenos bursting through the walls with teeth for eyes or worse. I like the touches like that. The Imperium's not entirely shitty. Just 90-95%. Max.

[Samuel]

Reminds me of that line from T3:

"Your levity is good, it relieves tension and the fear of death. "

Do they still have the skull motifs everywhere? Because that, combined with the children stories gets me the feeling that alot of the Imperium is designed to desensitize people to the threat of carnage, violence and death.

[Connor MacLeod]

The propoganda angle in 40K is always meant to be something of a joke or parody - anyone who instantly has the Uplifting Primer spring to mind raise your hand. But the Imperium is good with propoganda. It thrives on it, because its one of their best tools for maintaining stability and authority.

Of course real life propoganda (which is what 40K propoganda really parodies to the extreme) is pretty absurd in and of itself - and scarier because people seem to believe it.

[NecronLord]

Our Friend Prometheum (More Burning Heretics)

Hey. It does more than that. Our friend prometheium heats your homes, powers your cars, brings off-world goods in shuttles, and makes nice plastics!