Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

Post Reply
Uaisop
Redshirt
Posts: 1
Joined: 2009-12-25 11:01pm

Re:

Post by Uaisop »

Nephtys wrote:
VF5SS wrote:Macross 7 is awesome. Anyone who hates it is stuck up and stupid.
I dunno. I think it's lame that Basra asks you to LISTEN TO HIS SONG, when he has three whole songs on a 40+ Episode show, and he plays them constantly. I think it's lame when the stock animation makes the original Macross look newer and cleaner by comparison. I find it stupid that instead of being a drama with love triangles, explosions and the survival of the human race, it's rather about a rock band who fight using giant guitars played by giant robots against space demons.

Space. Demons. With horns. And Wings. PROTODEVILIN.
In the final part of Macross 7, "Basra" had about 14 different songs, but since Planet Dance and Totsugeki Love Heart were his favorites, he kept playing them uninterruptedly.

Shoji Kawamori initially considered the idea of mecha using giant guitars/rifles hybrids, but he fortunately discarded this concept.

And this last argument of yours is seriously broken. I mean, you don't have to sound stupid if you want to criticize Macross 7. You need to write better arguments, and not just babble.
User avatar
VF5SS
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3281
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:14pm
Location: Neither here nor there...
Contact:

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by VF5SS »

Macross 7 is truly the only Macross sequel that captures the spirit of the original series without outright copying (Macross 2) or homage spamming (Macross Frontier). Having watched 7 again recently and spoken about it I have found in general people are starting to forget that fashionable hate of the show. It only took the western fandom ten years to grow up I guess.
プロジェクトゾハルとは何ですか?
ロボットが好き。
User avatar
generator_g1
Jedi Master
Posts: 1185
Joined: 2003-01-19 10:17pm
Location: Halfway between the gutter and the stars....

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by generator_g1 »

This is so hilarious and shameless at the same time.

Source

Image

Image

Image
Astro Plan" ("太空历险记", "星原战记") is an upcoming sci-fi fantasy cartoon series made in China, which will be aired starting this month. The story goes like this: when the environment on Earth deteriorates in the future due to global warming, human beings decided to venture into space to look for a new home. This is the so-called "Star Field Project" (? - 星原计划). Deep in space, the space migration fleet encounters beings from Planet Iccus (? - 伊克斯星人), raiders of natural resources in the Universe. The alien beings has the ambition to become the overlord of the Galaxy. In response to this threat, 6 young fighters are recruited into Sky Arrow Flight Team (? - 天箭飞行队) to pilot the highly mobile and transformable Type Yi (? - 羿式) machines to combat the Iccus aliens.

Composing of both 2D and 3D animation, the story will have plenty of plot twists, but is lighthearted and has a comical sense. Each character has clear distinguishable personalities and strong sense of love and hatred (means sense of justice I suppose). The setting of space in the series will project the vastness and mysterious feel of the Universe.

"Astro Plan" will be aired on Hunan TV's Golden Eagle Channel (湖南电视台金鹰卫视) starting this Friday (January 15th).
What are they fucking thinking/smoking? Didn't they think that someone would catch on?
My FLICKR page! :D
Remember, people, commas are your friends. Love them, embrace them, cherish them, and for crying out loud, USE them.
User avatar
Parallax
Jedi Knight
Posts: 855
Joined: 2002-10-06 04:34am
Contact:

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by Parallax »

VF5SS wrote:Macross 7 is truly the only Macross sequel that captures the spirit of the original series without outright copying (Macross 2) or homage spamming (Macross Frontier). Having watched 7 again recently and spoken about it I have found in general people are starting to forget that fashionable hate of the show. It only took the western fandom ten years to grow up I guess.
No, I still can't stand it. It's the only Macross series I will probably never watch again and that's for various reasons, including:
* Being incredibly repetitive in plot episode to episode.
* The main protagonist being completely unsympathetic. Something is wrong when you start fervently hoping he dies a terrible and painful death. He was a selfish, self absorbed, anti-social, immature, annoying git.
* Animation quality for the time was quite poor.
* Music was repetitive.
* No character, good or bad, seemed to have any intelligence what-so-ever. This is probably an indicator of the generally poor level of writing in the series.
* Mecha designs were bad compared to previous series, especially in regard to the customised music VFs. Boob speakers, for example, were just sad. Speakers in space also just made one facepalm.

There was only one good scene throughout the entire series and that was when Max and his wife decided enough was enough and took to the fight to Protodeviln, fighting like real VF pilots fight.

A far, far superior Macross series that caught the real core of the Macross franchise was Macross Plus. Solid VF action mixed with some decent music.
User avatar
Nephtys
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6227
Joined: 2005-04-02 10:54pm
Location: South Cali... where life is cheap!

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by Nephtys »

VF5SS wrote:Macross 7 is truly the only Macross sequel that captures the spirit of the original series without outright copying (Macross 2) or homage spamming (Macross Frontier). Having watched 7 again recently and spoken about it I have found in general people are starting to forget that fashionable hate of the show. It only took the western fandom ten years to grow up I guess.
...what.

WHAT? Macross 7? Seriously? You know, the spirit of the original show was a war drama, involving 3 people caught in the middle and a love triangle. Not a rock and roll band fighting pokemon with rock and roll subwoofer missiles.

Macross F is a lot closer. And a lot better. The homages started early to make you feel that it was going to be the exact same thing, then swerved hard left field to change everything entirely. While still being a sort of war drama about trying to live normally in what is effectively a war against an unknown enemy, involving a love triangle and whatnot.
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by Vendetta »

generator_g1 wrote: What are they fucking thinking/smoking? Didn't they think that someone would catch on?
It's China, they don't give a fuck.
Nephtys wrote:
WHAT? Macross 7? Seriously? You know, the spirit of the original show was a war drama, involving 3 people caught in the middle and a love triangle. Not a rock and roll band fighting pokemon with rock and roll subwoofer missiles.
But y'know, saving the galaxy from alien space vampires by making them orgasm through the power of rock and roll is also pretty cool.

If only the pacing weren't so leaden in the first 15 or so episodes and Basara was less of a dick. Cut down to the length of the original series with a few more reasons to view the main character as a sympathetic person not a selfcentered asshole who, if he weren't basically Space-Lennon with extra Jesus no-one would voluntarily have anything to do with would have improved it markedly.

(Still, I do like 7's music, even if it's a little cheesy sometimes, and in the end I liked the show.)
User avatar
VF5SS
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3281
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:14pm
Location: Neither here nor there...
Contact:

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by VF5SS »

Nephtys wrote:You know, the spirit of the original show was a war drama,
This is completely wrong. The original series is at its heart an earnest creation born out of a parody as made by fans of Space Battleship Yamato and Gundam. It's the same kind of melodramatic world filled with blue people and mass destruction, except this time the jets turn into robots. It features the same anime military filled with colorful uniforms, underage soldiers, and lots of shouting in the cockpit of a giant robot. Macross adds the idea of people from vastly different worlds finding out they are really the same. Also the adversaries are generally very powerful. There's also some singing to sell CDs.

Macross 7 captures all of those things. Far better than Frontier. All Frontier could give us was nasty space bugs they we get to see blow up and vague evil cyborgs. It's a fun show, but it has a lot of trouble finding its own voice with all the homages.

Anime fans these days are becoming antsy mediaphiles and marathon everything they see so every bit of repetition sticks out in their brains. Anime fans have become such pigs for shows a lot of them have forgotten a 50 episode show is paced the way it is for a good reason. Macross 7 ran for an entire year and that's more Frontier or the original series could muster. And they did it all while producing Macross Plus just for those minority of fans with a VCR and 8,000 yen to blow per volume.

That was a wonderful era for the franchise.
プロジェクトゾハルとは何ですか?
ロボットが好き。
User avatar
Parallax
Jedi Knight
Posts: 855
Joined: 2002-10-06 04:34am
Contact:

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by Parallax »

VF5SS wrote:
Nephtys wrote:You know, the spirit of the original show was a war drama,
This is completely wrong. The original series is at its heart an earnest creation born out of a parody as made by fans of Space Battleship Yamato and Gundam.
Even if true, it turned out to be something very different.
Macross 7 captures all of those things.
The only thing Macross 7 managed to capture is basically an example of how to making extremely annoying and unsympathetic main characters and my urge to vomit into a bucket.
Macross 7 ran for an entire year and that's more Frontier or the original series could muster.
There's a faulty argument. Directly linking run length with quality. By that rational, the longer Heroes airs the better it should be. Of course, the seasons after the first one have ranged from bland to simply terrible.
And they did it all while producing Macross Plus just for those minority of fans with a VCR and 8,000 yen to blow per volume.
Macross Plus ended up being a far superior story to Macross 7, oddly enough.
Far superior animation. Non-repetitive songs. Solid plot. Heck, even though the protagonists were having a Who's-The-Biggest-Douche-bag competition you could understand their motivation for their actions. Not so with Macross 7, where the main character was just a selfish, self aborbed, immature and irresponsible ass.
User avatar
Manus Celer Dei
Jedi Master
Posts: 1486
Joined: 2005-01-01 06:30pm
Location: I need you to relax your anus.

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by Manus Celer Dei »

The biggest problem I have with M7 is that makes "Fighting aliens with the power of MUSIC!" exactly as silly as it sounds, what with the speaker guns and so on. At least other Macross stuff has a reason the music does stuff, while in M7 it's just FUCK YEAH SOUND ENERGY!
And Basara was a hilarious ass but got pretty boring past a point.


Also, Valkyries launching from the Archangel? Didn't that happen in one of the SRW games?
Image
"We will build cities in a day!"
"Man would cower at the sight!"
"We will build towers to the heavens!"
"Man was not built for such a height!"
"We will be heroes!"
"We will BUILD heroes!"
[/size][/i]
User avatar
VF5SS
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3281
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:14pm
Location: Neither here nor there...
Contact:

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by VF5SS »

Parallax wrote: Even if true, it turned out to be something very different.
Just read Macross Perfect Memory. Even the final product still has that tinge of parody with the giant transforming battleship, silly giants, and singing. And it's not very different from Yamato or Gundam save for the singing and slightly more down to earth characters.
There's a faulty argument. Directly linking run length with quality.
Except the model is entirely different for anime of a given length. When you're given the go ahead for 52 weeks, you have to plan ahead to fill that time. The original Macross kept shrinking and growing so stuff kept getting crammed and stretched to the detriment of the story. Frontier is ridiculously crammed towards the end.
Far superior animation.
It's a four episode OVA, that's generally given. For a TV series, Macross 7 has consistently good animation and artwork unlike Frontier or the original, which had their share of terrible episodes.
Non-repetitive songs.
It's four episodes long. You couldn't even begin to play Information High repeatedly enough to not take over the whole show.
Solid plot.
Two doucebags try to out douchebag each other and a crazy AI hijacks the Macross is a solid plot? It's no better than Macross Zero, and at least that had Roy Focker.

Not so with Macross 7, where the main character was just a selfish, self aborbed, immature and irresponsible ass.
You mean Isamu Dyson?

I guess I just watched the dozen or so other characters in Macross 7 and stopped worrying about Basara.
The biggest problem I have with M7 is that makes "Fighting aliens with the power of MUSIC!" exactly as silly as it sounds, what with the speaker guns and so on.
Most of that stuff was fairly methodical and fully explained to the audience. Plus it took them 26 episodes to even get to the sound energy.
At least other Macross stuff has a reason the music does stuff, while in M7 it's just FUCK YEAH SOUND ENERGY!
Why is the reason music does stuff in 7 any different than the other series? With the exception of the original, the power of music is tied to other strange sci-fi concepts.
プロジェクトゾハルとは何ですか?
ロボットが好き。
User avatar
Parallax
Jedi Knight
Posts: 855
Joined: 2002-10-06 04:34am
Contact:

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by Parallax »

You mean Isamu Dyson?
I guess I just watched the dozen or so other characters in Macross 7 and stopped worrying about Basara.
I'm starting to suspect that not only do you have extremely poor taste in televised entertainment but also that you're a dishonest git.

Why do I say this? Because you made this point, ignoring the fact that I clearly pointed out that while Isamu and Guld may have been having a douchebag competition, at least their motivations and cause of their behaviour was clearly explained and actually tied directly into the plot. And they managed to do this in a four part series ... while a 52 episode series didn't even scratch the cause for Basara's particular brand of rampant idiocy and fuckwittery.

Which is remarkable when you think about it. Jack-shit happens for the first 15-20 episodes when it would have been the logical place to explain the characters, what motivates them and why ... but we didn't get a even a sniff of any sort of fleshing out of the characters.

And that really is another major fault of Macross 7; you don't have any reason at all to care about the characters. With the good guys you tend to range from simply not caring (with the possible exceptions of Max and Millia) to "God, please let them die now. Horribly and painfully in a humiliating way as possible."
Most of that stuff was fairly methodical and fully explained to the audience. Plus it took them 26 episodes to even get to the sound energy.
That doesn't change the fact that it was still handled very poorly and so unbelievably stupid on so many levels, that it just made you want to throw things at the TV screen. There's suspension of disbelief; yeah, transforming Mecha are stupid but you can still sort of go with it ... but sound energy and music speakers in space is Peter Petrelli level of brain dead.
Why is the reason music does stuff in 7 any different than the other series? With the exception of the original, the power of music is tied to other strange sci-fi concepts.
Macross Plus didn't either. Sharon Apple just used it to hypnotise people which is completely different. Macross Frontier played it much closer to the original series, using it as both an inspirational weapons and also to counter the enemy.
User avatar
Nephtys
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6227
Joined: 2005-04-02 10:54pm
Location: South Cali... where life is cheap!

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by Nephtys »

For a TV series, Macross 7 has consistently good animation and artwork unlike Frontier or the original, which had their share of terrible episodes.
VF5SS, did you seriously say that Macross 7 had better art design than FRONTIER? Really? you're a fan of four frame animation of stock footage, repeated like the 1970s Battlestar Galactica, over sweeping landscapes, distinctive but still not too-ridiculous character designs, incredibly clean CGI and integration of such with traditional animation?

I don't care if the original intent by some japanese guys was to make a comedic parody with giant transforming battleship-carriers. It ended up as a war drama, and all that stuff is background. What it is not however, is ghostbusters where the power of rock and roll is the only weapon that can defeat demons from beyond space and time.

Likewise, a 52 episode series is not an excuse. It still ends up as a poorer product by being stretched out way too long, with way too little content per episode. Seriously, you're criticizing Frontier for having 'their share of terrible episodes', when the entire first 20 consecutive episodes of Macross 7 are godawful, and then crappy as hell episodes spaced through the rest of it's run?
Why is the reason music does stuff in 7 any different than the other series? With the exception of the original, the power of music is tied to other strange sci-fi concepts.
Let's see.

Macross original/DYRL - Music is used to aculturate a human-cousin race to join with humans and share in their culture, because the alien culture is artificial and sucks.
Macross Plus - The girl of the love triangle was an aspiring musician who was displaced by an AI designed for such. Which then uses Yoko Kanno and holographic thingies to hypnotize a lot of people. Okay.
Macross Frontier - Both girls of the love triangle are musicians, one the established celebrity and one the young upstart. Because of a very specific biological condition the upstart has, the concept of music is the nearest analogue to sympathetic communication with mysterious alien race X.

then...

Macross 7 - The lead characters are a rock band that fly transforming fighters equipped with giant guitar rifles, that fire speaker-bullets, space subwoofers, and such to defeat demons who are only vulnerable to 'sound energy'. Also known as magic.

It just takes a reasonably mild concept (music has cultural significance) to an absurd (music can be used to channel chi powers to hadoken monsters)
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by Vendetta »

Parallax wrote: Which is remarkable when you think about it. Jack-shit happens for the first 15-20 episodes when it would have been the logical place to explain the characters, what motivates them and why ... but we didn't get a even a sniff of any sort of fleshing out of the characters.
Gamlin and Mylene were relatively well developed, Ray suffered because his defining character trait was belief in Basara as Jesus 2 and he didn't get to do much else and Viffidas was a drummer so y'know. (Actually, Viffidas has the most interesting backstory of the band, but it's not in the fucking series, it's in Encore.

By contrast, the only lead who isn't really terribly well developed in Frontier is Luca.
VF5SS wrote: Except the model is entirely different for anime of a given length. When you're given the go ahead for 52 weeks, you have to plan ahead to fill that time.
Yes, and the problem is that Macross 7 didn't do that very well, being generous, the start of the series needed to lose at least ten episodes, so that Battle 7 and City 7 were seperated at episode 3, not 13, because that's the first time anything actually interesting happens in the series. (Remember that's also the point in the first series that the Macross was stranded in space).
User avatar
VF5SS
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3281
Joined: 2002-07-04 07:14pm
Location: Neither here nor there...
Contact:

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by VF5SS »

Macross Frontier - Both girls of the love triangle are musicians, one the established celebrity and one the young upstart. Because of a very specific biological condition the upstart has, the concept of music is the nearest analogue to sympathetic communication with mysterious alien race X.
Right all because of magic space crystals that let people communicate telepathically and also instantly affect the space bugs because we only have two episodes left to explain everything. Also there's some evil cyborgs we don't even get to see much of but they're not affected by song I guess so it doesn't count.
VF5SS, did you seriously say that Macross 7 had better art design than FRONTIER?
Everything is more consistently drawn. The characters and mecha are rarely off model and the setting is sufficiently fleshed out and detailed.
Really? you're a fan of four frame animation of stock footage, repeated like the 1970s Battlestar Galactica,
I could take or leave some of the stock footage but in the end I don't care because it's not enough to affect the story. I can watch Tekkaman Blade or Gaogaigar fine even if they are loaded with stock footage. It's just how an anime gets made.
over sweeping landscapes, distinctive but still not too-ridiculous character designs, incredibly clean CGI and integration of such with traditional animation?
Being pretty doesn't save you from being mediocre. You do realize the reason they're even going that route is because the skills to do all that traditionally are being lost, right? And I hated just how ugly the characters could look at times.
By contrast, the only lead who isn't really terribly well developed in Frontier is Luca.
Alto is pretty borderline as far as being a terrible character. He barely gets to do anything other than react, scream at things, or get molested just to make the fangirls squeal. Michel well, he dies so there's not much else to him. I guess there was that bit with his sister but they didn't follow up on it much. Klan is ok but her design is completely unwarranted fanservice. Sheryl is a good character but we get her at the cost of everyone else getting shunted to the background. Brera is a fucking waste of time. Ranka sings Aimo too much.

My favorite character was Ozma because his entire character could be summed up in episode 17, which is an episode where nothing important happens but hey they play some Fire Bomber and the man gets his girl back.

And for the record I like the early episodes of 7. It's where all the character setup occurs. Everything from Gigil's first series of doubts to Fire Bomber's rise to the top is there. Gamlin makes his shift from hardass to getting more comfortable around people because of Mylene. We get the friction between Max and Millia. People are getting preyed on by vampires. Stuff is happening, the people in the show are living their lives on the big space dome in space.
The lead characters are a rock band that fly transforming fighters equipped with giant guitar rifles
The Sound Force Valkyries have standard looking gunpods just like all the rest. Try again.
that fire speaker-bullets
Right. To convey the idea of getting people to listen to a song through exploiting the established fact Valkyries have pressurized cockpits. You have to show things to the audience. Show don't tell.
space subwoofers, and such to defeat demons who are only vulnerable to 'sound energy'.
Hey Sound Energy is a scientific fact in Macross. Dr. Chiba did research with a doctor's headband and everything.

Sound Force didn't really defeat anything. The running theme is that the Protodevilin are merely allowing Macross 7 to live because they need it for the Spiritia Farm. Did you watch the show at all or did you just scream and rave at the screen for 49 episodes because you weren't getting your mecha porn?
while a 52 episode series didn't even scratch the cause for Basara's particular brand of rampant idiocy and fuckwittery.
How can you not figure this out? He wants you to listen to his song. He says it in every episode. Why? Because he's dedicated to ending violent conflict through a completely non-violent way. That's the idea of moving the mountain. Trying to achieve what many think is impossible through persistence. Rock solid persistence.

And at the very least Basara tries to protect people. All Isamu and Guld could do for most of the movie (or show) is hate each other because of something stupid. They got topped by practically every character from 7 in the likability department.

I'm glad this has devolved in Plus vs 7 because I managed to stop all of that at Macrossworld now it needs somewhere else to go.
プロジェクトゾハルとは何ですか?
ロボットが好き。
User avatar
Vendetta
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 10895
Joined: 2002-07-07 04:57pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Macross F (Frontier) information and preview video.

Post by Vendetta »

VF5SS wrote: Alto is pretty borderline as far as being a terrible character. He barely gets to do anything other than react, scream at things, or get molested just to make the fangirls squeal. Michel well, he dies so there's not much else to him. I guess there was that bit with his sister but they didn't follow up on it much. Klan is ok but her design is completely unwarranted fanservice. Sheryl is a good character but we get her at the cost of everyone else getting shunted to the background. Brera is a fucking waste of time. Ranka sings Aimo too much.
And yet they all have character arcs, development, and their motivations are explored within the show, which is more than you can say for Ray and Viffidas.
How can you not figure this out? He wants you to listen to his song. He says it in every episode. Why? Because he's dedicated to ending violent conflict through a completely non-violent way. That's the idea of moving the mountain. Trying to achieve what many think is impossible through persistence. Rock solid persistence.
This does not explain why he is a galactic scale arsehole to everyone.
Post Reply