Tron Legacy: OMFG *Spoilers*

[neoolong]

The bad guy in the first movie was the Master Control Program that enslaved the programs in the Grid. On instructions from his user, Alan Bradley, Tron, with the help of Flynn defeated it to free the Grid. So, pretty important program, which was the main program Flynn got to know.

[Lord Relvenous]

Alan was a user? I'm guessing he wasn't a User, as he would have understood what Flynn was talking about when he was describing the grid.

Thanks for the rundown, as well.

[neoolong]

Alan never entered the Grid/digital world in the movie, I believe he did in the game Tron 2.0 though. However, Tron the program looked like his user and programmer, who was Alan, just like Clu looked like Kevin Flynn. That's why they had a deaged Bruce Boxleitner in Legacy.

Edit: Now that I think of it, I kinda wonder why Flynn never took Alan into the Grid when he was setting it up/exploring it.

[Nephtys]

The original movie was a lot more cheesy for the 'this is a komputor!!!11!one' aspect. Like, one program was called RAM, and was thrown in the gulag because it's job got taken over by MCP. It was an insurance database program, and said it was nice to make people feel prepared, etc. There were lines like 'Believe in the Users? Of course I do. If there was no such thing as a User, who wrote me?'.

[FSTargetDrone]

Alan never entered the Grid/digital world in the movie, I believe he did in the game Tron 2.0 though. However, Tron the program looked like his user and programmer, who was Alan, just like Clu looked like Kevin Flynn. That's why they had a deaged Bruce Boxleitner in Legacy.

Edit: Now that I think of it, I kinda wonder why Flynn never took Alan into the Grid when he was setting it up/exploring it.

Forget 2.0. It deviates from the film canon is several important ways. For example, there are numerous references to "Tron Legacy" in the game which seem to have nothing to do with the latest film, etc.

Has anyone noticed that the TV commercials are referring to the movie as "Tron" and not "Tron Legacy"? If nothing else, coming up with a title for this film had to be tricky if you wanted to take into account most film-goers who have no idea what the first film was about.

[neoolong]

Tron 2.0 came out a number of years before they started working on Legacy I believe. Tron: Evolution is probably fairly canonical. Never played either.

The name of the film is kinda difficult, since it's a direct sequel to a movie made 28 years ago that not that many people actually saw. I think awareness is more prevalent than people that saw it, especially that remember more than disc wars and lightcycles. But, the prologue/flashback helped I guess. "Tron, he fights for the users!"

[Zor]

Their is a complaint that i have seen crop up several times from Nerds in regards to this film. Some people have a hard time getting over some of the things on the Grid, such as nightclubs, the meal Flynn and Sam have and similar. "What purpose do those serve and why would people program them" and similar. Personnally i don't buy into this. Did the Users write limbs, emotions, sexuality and so forth for the programs (all present in Tron) and don't serve a purpose save for anthropomorphizing software. Well once you do that, other things are not too much of a stretch.

On a lighter note, i have this image of Quorra after the film being in a net cafe with Sam where she casually watches someone sending something to the recyling bin, causing her to either break out in tears or roundhouse kick him.

Zor

[neoolong]

There's a limitation to how much you can think of the Grid as a computer system/world since it acts pretty much like it's Narnia. Why is there dust? Why is there rain? Why is there a single lamppost when everything else is medieval? Why is Santa Claus a real guy?

There's your magical new world to explore and there's your wardrobe, er laser, to get there.

[FSTargetDrone]

Their is a complaint that i have seen crop up several times from Nerds in regards to this film. Some people have a hard time getting over some of the things on the Grid, such as nightclubs, the meal Flynn and Sam have and similar. "What purpose do those serve and why would people program them" and similar. Personnally i don't buy into this. Did the Users write limbs, emotions, sexuality and so forth for the programs (all present in Tron) and don't serve a purpose save for anthropomorphizing software. Well once you do that, other things are not too much of a stretch.

Agreed. Why do they have hair, or any other feature? Skin, namely. Hair exists in the first film.

The beauty of the Tron World is that anything can be created in that world and it shouldn't stretch credibility. You can have ships or vehicles moving about that would have no hope of working in the Real World. The Recognizer design, for example. In the commentary of the first film, the filmmakers point out that the ship design was intended to resemble the face and arms of a hunched-over gorilla. Highly stylized, of course, but as soon as you know that, you can see it! And it's a cool idea. Sark's command carrier is asymmetrical for no apparent reason or purpose and has parts on its aft-end that aren't even connected to the ship--they just hang there. There are no apparent engines or methods of propulsion of the first film's carrier or Recognizers. The latter can hover, and then twirl around and then accelerate forward, much more smoothly than a helicopter. If you need a motorocycle, you hold up the rod and it forms around you. Otherwise, you keep the bar strapped to your leg! Incredible! And very cool.

Once we accept that Flynn and his son are somehow physically pulled into the world of a computer, everything else is small potatoes in terms of believability.

[Zor]

Basically, their is one thing which their should not be on the Grid is children, simply due to the fact that programs are created rather than born. Maybe with ISOs (although they were first seen as adults), but definately not with regular programs.

Zor

[Galvatron]

I was hoping for something jarring, but instead I got suckling pig and old books (Which took me out of the movie a bit. How the hell did that stuff work?).

I just assumed that Flynn laser-digitized all that stuff from the real world during the good old days before the coup. After all, he spent lots of time on the grid and it was basically a second home, so it makes sense that he'd set up his pad like that. Too bad he didn't digitize a rug though. It would have really tied the place together.

But then Clu probably would have pissed on it.

[Ford Prefect]

Hilariously, I had a flick through the novelisation at work yesterday, and came across the dinner scene. Sam realises that the foood, all the objects in the room etc were painstakingly recreated by Flynn.

[Coalition]

Hilariously, I had a flick through the novelisation at work yesterday, and came across the dinner scene. Sam realises that the foood, all the objects in the room etc were painstakingly recreated by Flynn.

So from the first movie, where they drank the water, and it was energy; in this case the 'liquid' was reformatted by Flynn into a food shape. The books are from his memory of the story, along with the texture, ditto for the chairs, table, and other items.

This could be a psychological study on Flynn, where he tries to avoid being lost in the Grid by recreating memories from the outside. He could just drink the energy liquid, but he recreates the food as well. He could just have a display for the stories, but he makes books instead. A basic platform, but he makes beds, etc.

[Galvatron]

Ugh, that all sounds way to Matrixy to me. Like Cypher's steak or the Oracle's cookies.

We saw them digitize an orange in the first movie. Why can't we just say that Flynn the did the same to a shitload of real world objects and leave it at that?

[FSTargetDrone]

Ugh, that all sounds way to Matrixy to me. Like Cypher's steak or the Oracle's cookies.

We saw them digitize an orange in the first movie. Why can't we just say that Flynn the did the same to a shitload of real world objects and leave it at that?

Forget the food, what is Flynn breathing during his time in the Grid? Has he managed to create a supply of air to keep him alive for all of this time?

I see no problem with the food and other familiar real world items being simulations created by him purely as a matter of comfort. As suggested above, it could merely be the energy/water (as seen in the first movie) "reconstituted" in different ways.

[Zor]

We saw them digitize an orange in the first movie. Why can't we just say that Flynn the did the same to a shitload of real world objects and leave it at that?

I can buy that for the books (do you honestly think that Flynn has memorized 20,000 leagues under the Sea word for word?), but honestly, how many suckling pigs do you honestly think he took in with him. Especially since time travels quicker in the grid than off it.

Zor

[Galvatron]

Once digitized, I assume it can be copied.

[neoolong]

Does that count as piracy? The suckling pig is the intellectual property of Ralph's. You can't just copy it!

Flynn is a damned dirty pirate.

[Justice]

Ugh, that all sounds way to Matrixy to me. Like Cypher's steak or the Oracle's cookies.

We saw them digitize an orange in the first movie. Why can't we just say that Flynn the did the same to a shitload of real world objects and leave it at that?

Forget the food, what is Flynn breathing during his time in the Grid? Has he managed to create a supply of air to keep him alive for all of this time?

I see no problem with the food and other familiar real world items being simulations created by him purely as a matter of comfort. As suggested above, it could merely be the energy/water (as seen in the first movie) "reconstituted" in different ways.

I don't mind that, I wish they had just recognized that rather than just sort of putting that out there with no explanation at all. Hell, subvert the Matrix's "Does everything taste like chicken, or does chicken taste like everything else" or something. It's fine if they want to show off what Flynn does. Digitizing doesn't really work for it, though, if only because he built his little secret hideaway after the rebellion (Unless Flynn can recall "saved" items from somewhere... which would actually be kind of badass. A sort of portable hole.). I'm fine with stylistic choices, even if I don't agree with them, but you have to give a passing explanation if you are going to throw something in there that is radically out there. It's not about "what it looks like", but "how does this exist within the system"? Being "outside the grid" is another thing which they had perhaps explained some of, but neglected to.

As for the nightclub, it could have been made by Flynn himself. I mean, he's making the system from the inside out rather than the outside in, so perhaps he felt that programs needed some rec time. I kind of thought it used to be his old apartment, simply repurposed, considering its location within the city above everything.

[Darth Yan]

Saw it with my father yesterday. It was wierd at times, but fun overall.

[FSTargetDrone]

Finally saw it on Thursday morning at a theater showing it in RealD 3D. This was the first "3D" movie I've ever seen (haven't seen Avatar in any incarnation) and for the most part I was rather impressed with that effect. The previews before the movie were also all in 3D and that was a mixed bag.

Anyway, some thoughts...

The movie was beautiful-looking and I enjoyed spotting the various references to Tron. All of the action pieces were very well done. I think the cycle race was my favorite of those. Disk-play on a Light Cycle? Very cool.

I really liked how Clu had the (a spare? or maybe it was the same as he started with) control rod or bar or whatever it's called to allow him to almost literally pull another fighter craft out of his pocket and use it mid-fall. Very slick. That was also seen on the cycle grid.

It would have been nice to see the tanks do something other than pass by in the background. Also, it would have been amusing to see Tron toss a disk (somehow--perhaps his old-style one?) at Clu in an attempt to interrupt him towards the end. Would have made a nice callback to the first movie with the disk "distracting" the MCP, allowing the younger Flynn to escape in this instance.

I thought the acting was nowhere near as awful as a lot of reviewers have been complaining about. It was certainly acceptable and not a problem of any kind. Some of the dialogue was rather wonky and contrived, but not a deal-breaker by any means. Garrett Hedlund did a fine job. I saw in many reviews that his character didn't seem to convey any or enough concern for getting Flynn out. Clearly, those reviewers were not watching the movie, because Sam spent the whole time trying to do just that.

I am more convinced than ever that the "food" is nothing more than a digital creation by Flynn for his own comfort. The liquid they were drinking was surely the same stuff seen in the first movie, so I don't see why the solid food is anything different other than in appearance. However Flynn did this (and he must did this, as he set himself up in that hideaway in the first place--I was under the impression from the trailers that it was a gilded cage of sorts set up by Clu or some other enemy). The books, the clothing, all of it can't be any different than any other "material" in the Game World. It takes on whatever appearance and other qualities that are required of it. I don't see this being a difficult or bothersome issue at all, given the premise of the movie.

I thought the effect of young Flynn/Clu was pretty damn good. I was watching for anything too weird-looking, but on the whole it was fine. Quite impressive, actually.

One gripe I had was that the transition to the Game World was too fast. Where was the laser zapping Sam into digital bits? I didn't expect to see a sequence just like the one Flynn experienced in the first movie, but there barely even a hint of it. All we saw was a weird stretchy effect and suddenly Sam is in a digital version of his father's arcade. Then, at the end, he's just standing next to the desk? Bah.

They played the wrong Journey song! I wanted to hear "Only Solutions" not ""Separate Ways." At least "1990s Theme"! Nice to see Lisberger as the bartender.

Olivia Wilde (and especially) Beau Garrett are stunningly gorgeous. Gem is excitement, indeed...

[FSTargetDrone]

Addendum:

I didn't think it made much sense to have the Dillinger's son character in the movie. Unless it's some kind of setup for a possible sequel, he was entirely superfluous and his lines could have been handled by anyone else during that meeting. His father was presumably fired (if not prosecuted outright for IP fraud/theft) from Encom after the events from the first movie, so to mention him as part of the history of the company (in a good way) during that meeting of the board or whoever seemed rather odd. Assuming there is no payoff in a sequel involving the son, of course.

Also, Lora should probably have been mentioned. Unless she isn't involved with Alan any longer, it's strange to not even speak of her in passing. Whoever Sam's mother was, she was mentioned (as having died) but where was Lora? Yori not being in the story is less of a problem, because Sam may not have ever heard about her by name. Whatever may have happened to her was presumably discussed between Flynn and Tron long ago, so there would be no reason to rehash that. But it would have been nice to mention something about Lora, even with Cindy Morgan not in the movie.

[Ford Prefect]

I really liked how Clu had the (a spare? or maybe it was the same as he started with) control rod or bar or whatever it's called to allow him to almost literally pull another fighter craft out of his pocket and use it mid-fall. Very slick. That was also seen on the cycle grid.

Clu steals it from Rinzler/Tron. The movie actually goes out of its way to show that Rinzler dual wields everything. First he has two discs, then he has two Lightcycle rods, so it's natural to assume he has two Lightjet sticks.

[aieeegrunt]

Addendum:

I didn't think it made much sense to have the Dillinger's son character in the movie. Unless it's some kind of setup for a possible sequel, he was entirely superfluous and his lines could have been handled by anyone else during that meeting. His father was presumably fired (if not prosecuted outright for IP fraud/theft) from Encom after the events from the first movie, so to mention him as part of the history of the company (in a good way) during that meeting of the board or whoever seemed rather odd. Assuming there is no payoff in a sequel involving the son, of course.

I think you are correct that this is a potential sequel hook, there isn't really any reason to have a "name" actor in that role, unless Cillian really likes Tron and just wanted to do a cameo. This movie was well done enough that there really isn't any need for a sequel, and part of me is almost hoping they don't because of the Hollywood cash in sequelitis ruining it.

Also, Lora should probably have been mentioned. Unless she isn't involved with Alan any longer, it's strange to not even speak of her in passing. Whoever Sam's mother was, she was mentioned (as having died) but where was Lora? Yori not being in the story is less of a problem, because Sam may not have ever heard about her by name. Whatever may have happened to her was presumably discussed between Flynn and Tron long ago, so there would be no reason to rehash that. But it would have been nice to mention something about Lora, even with Cindy Morgan not in the movie.

Given it's been several decades since the first movie the majority of the audience isn't going to know or care about any of this, it'll just be clutter. I was impressed that all of the nods to the first Tron were subtle and understated.

[FSTargetDrone]

Clu steals it from Rinzler/Tron. The movie actually goes out of its way to show that Rinzler dual wields everything. First he has two discs, then he has two Lightcycle rods, so it's natural to assume he has two Lightjet sticks.

Yeah, I thought I saw him grab it but wasn't sure. I did notice Rinzler's dual-wielding of discs.

Given it's been several decades since the first movie the majority of the audience isn't going to know or care about any of this, it'll just be clutter. I was impressed that all of the nods to the first Tron were subtle and understated.

I know, it would have just been nice to have seen it. A quick line from Sam when he sees Alan in the beginning of the movie would have taken care of it, "How's Lora?" "She's fine." Or simply from Alan, "Lora sends her love," Something like that.

According to the Tron Wiki (which I hadn't looked at until today), "In the official Tron films canon, Lora survived to the present day and is still married to Alan Bradley.

Although Lora does not appear in the actual Tron Legacy movie, Lora has appeared at events that are a part of the Flynn Lives ARG that promotes it, such as a press conference to announce Space Paranoids Online which was interrupted-first by members of the Flynn Lives Organization, then by a skydiving Sam Flynn."