Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Entire post in spoiler tags.
Spoiler
3. The military plot just feel so half-baked it's hard to suspend belief. They couldn't think of a better reason to have Pratt training raptors, or to get them on the island?
That is not why he was brought in. He rejected the militarization of his raptors, as did most of the board of directors. I suspect he trained naval dolphins or somesuch. No no. He was brought in to solve one of the problems with raptor behavior from the first movie (evident in the movies and the books). They were basically unsocialized. He socialized them. He imprinted on them at birth as pack alpha, kept them from killing eachother, and then did their social enrichment/play by way of target training and drilling. Zoos use that sort of training to keep their animals from getting bored and to make them more manageable when they need to be shifted for medical checkups and the like. Even Komodo Dragons get target trained so they associated a white target with food and can be lured and decoyed away from zoo personnel, and to remove the human=food association. It works so well with Komodo Dragons that they recognize their trainers and like being petted, because they no longer look at their trainer and see a possible lunch.

The Ingen Douche just read his reports and saw what he wanted to see. Just like management types the world over. Which is where the metacommentary on corporate culture comes in.

The military application subplot was really well done, actually. You just have to think about it a bit, and connect some logical dots.

1) Bossman does not know shit about biology. Unlike Hammond, he is a visionary, not a micromanager. He does not actually know the operational details of his own park.

2) The modifications made to a lot of the dinosaurs make no sense. Being featherless makes sense. It pisses me off, but it makes sense. They want their dinosaurs to conform to the mental image people have of dinosaurs. I suppose I just need to popularize the image of feathered T-Rex and the Raptor Death Turkeys. Anyway, using swaths of cuttlefish genome large enough to give iRex chromatophores in order to ostensibly give it tolerance to high growth rates (and high growth rates make sense for a park attraction that operates on quarterly profits) makes no sense. Unless it was intentional. The same goes with using raptor DNA for unspecified reasons that gave it increased intellect and capacity for communication down to suitable vocal apparati, and the ability to change body temp so not show up on thermal imaging.

Wu knows better than to just randomly split in genome sequences. Been there, done that. So it only makes sense if he did so intentionally.

3) Wu's answers were quick and specific when confronted about iRex's aberrant capabilities by Bossman. What is more important, operations personnel were not informed about the capabilities of the iRex, to the point that they took insufficient precaution when dealing with it. Which means Wu knew, and did not tell anyone else.

4) Ingen Douche came in during the disaster and confiscated the embryos of specimens that he did not want the outside world and corporate oversight finding out about. Experimental weapons projects obviously. More than iRex (possibly including the evil mutant Dimorphodon as well).

5) When Wu was being evacuated, he wanted assurances that "the deal was intact".

Conclusion) Wu and Ingen Douche (I am not dignifying DeNafrio with his characters name) had a secret deal. Wu engineers dinosaurs with obvious military applications for Ingen (technically, he is still an Ingen employee, and they are still bitter about being bought out) in exchange for a golden parachute. Wu uses the corporate desire for "bigger teeth" as a cover for this project.
4. Remember how in the first Jurassic Park, there was a tiny aside to Gennaro early on from the Ore Digger Guy that Hammond couldn't meet him because his daughter was going through a divorce and he wanted to be with her? Think it would have added anything to the movie if it had been expanded, and been brought up with Tim and Lex? Nope. Same thing with basically everything that happens with the brothers before they get on the island.
Are you seriously complaining that the movie shows instead of tells? "Family" vacation without the parents, the snap between mom and dad when the kids first leave, the younger kids general behavior (which makes perfect sense once he mentions that he figured out his parents were divorcing and you realize he was trying to put everything out of his head and have a good time, but was was having trouble coping), the mom's emotional ups and downs that, from other character interactions, dont seem normal for her. The phone call from a law office where there is obvious divorce mediation going on.

What do you want a big fanfare? Do you want someone to be like "Behold! The parents are divorcing and carted the kids off to jurassic world to shelter them from divorce mediation!"?
I don't quite see it that way. Malcolm IIRC was some sort of fancy book writer, university lecturer, something like that... a public figure, considered an 'expert' in his field (It's been a REALLY long time since I read JP). He's something of a composite of various professional talking heads with a walloping helping of five minutes' reading of Popular Science and a few pop-psych books as Crichton writes him, even though he was more or less intended to be some sort of professor in... fancy systems, Chaos theory, something or other. Not quite a 'layperson'.
Professor of mathematics at the university of texas, if I recall. He works on the mathematics of non-linear systems. Or, systems like the weather that are deterministic, but where the math is highly sensitive to initial conditions in a way that is independent of scale.

He basically predicted that because of basic problems in the initial conception and design of the park (which can be as small as a programming error in the dinosaur counting system that prevents the computer from recognizing larger than expected numbers of dinosaurs in the park), there would be an error feedback loop that leads to the destruction of the park.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Guardsman Bass »

Spoiler
Alyrium Denryle wrote:Are you seriously complaining that the movie shows instead of tells? "Family" vacation without the parents, the snap between mom and dad when the kids first leave, the younger kids general behavior (which makes perfect sense once he mentions that he figured out his parents were divorcing and you realize he was trying to put everything out of his head and have a good time, but was was having trouble coping), the mom's emotional ups and downs that, from other character interactions, dont seem normal for her. The phone call from a law office where there is obvious divorce mediation going on.

What do you want a big fanfare? Do you want someone to be like "Behold! The parents are divorcing and carted the kids off to jurassic world to shelter them from divorce mediation!"?
Did you seriously misread my entire point? We don't need to know that much about the off-the-island drama before they get to the island for their storyline to work. That's why I pointed out the example from the first film - in the novel, there's a lot more about how Tim doesn't relate to his dad over dinosaurs, about how the divorce is affecting him and his sister, etc. And none of it would have made the movie any better, none of it would have made their characters more interesting and useful to the story, so Spielberg and the writers wisely didn't put it in there and simply let them develop as we saw them on-screen. Hell, most people who haven't read the book probably didn't even make the connection between the kids and the off-hand comment by Ore Digger Guy - I certainly didn't until I read the novel and watched the film again.

Same goes for the parents' divorce. If they just have them show up on the island as part of a trip to visit their aunt, what about them makes less sense, doesn't work? What about their behavior would ring false? They're almost entirely characterized by their behavior together once they're on the island anyways, just as with the kids from the first movie. Everything they do before they get there is ultimately just fluffing it, or worse since it reinforced that tired "defrosting ice queen" thing they have going with Bryce Dallas Howard (and have been criticized over)
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Sorry. I think I misread a sentence or two for some reason and accidentally missed your point. On the other hand, I am a fan of establishing characters and setting. It is a fine line between that and beating dead horses. I think they spent juuuuust enough time with it. Mileage may vary with that one.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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No problem. It's not really one of the movie's bigger mistakes on its own, although I do think it ties into the issues with substantial characters that I think this film.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Guardsman Bass »

All this made me curious, so I'm re-reading (and listening to) the book again.

It's good stuff so far, although sort of sadly amusing at how optimistic the book is about genetic engineering in the early 1990s.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

Guardsman Bass wrote:All this made me curious, so I'm re-reading (and listening to) the book again.

It's good stuff so far, although sort of sadly amusing at how optimistic the book is about genetic engineering in the early 1990s.
Yeah... that part is always fun. You should try being a biologist and reading that thing. Ugh. There are some things that are oddly prescient and some things that just...ugh.

Prescient Things
Venomous dinos. Yes, there were a few venomous dinosaurs. Sinornithosaurus comes to mind. Little gliding raptor. Fossils are so well preserved we can tell what color the feathers were, and indeed have found evidence of venom grooves in the upper jaw and associated venom sacks. Could mean that other dromeosaurs were venomous. Does not extend to the compies, but hey. Nifty.

Rapid gene sequencing. Yeah. Totally a thing now.

Anti-predator symbiotic relationships and extensive parental care in dinosaurs. Also totally a thing.

Ugh things.
What the fuck were you doing Wu? Even an undergrad in the 90s would know that if you want to fill in missing pieces in a gene sequence you use the nearest relative. We know now why this is even more important, but even back then. If you want compatible proteins for various metabolic functions, your best bet is with something closely related. With dinosaurs, you have two options. Chickens or Crocodiles. At the very least use another diapsid reptile.

Instead of doing the sane thing, Wu, used frogs. Specifically frogs in the genus Rana. Now, this was used as an excuse for the sex-switching. Problem is, Rana does not do that. There are only a few african tree frogs in the genus Hyperolius that sex-switch. Why the fuck would Wu randomly use Hyperolius mislabeled as Rana? Are the geneticists really that stupid?

The lysine contingency. My God. They couldn't pick an amino acid that does not have readily available vegetable sources? Methionine comes to mind, though I am not sure how much of it tropical plants will contain. Better yet, dont use nutrition for this sort of control. Use some other thing. Maybe a defective immune system that requires regular oral vaccination because memory cells dont work too well. Something like that.

To say nothing of a glaring errors in containment mechanisms. Nothing passive, all active and requiring power. Jesus.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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Well, to be fair, Wu didn't just use amphibian. He says he used avian, reptile, and only amphibian in a few species, depending on the size and general function of the section being repaired. That's why only five of the 15 or so species were breeding: those were the only ones with Rana genes. As for sex-switching, hasn't it also been observed in Glandirana rugosa? Anyway, that's a minor extrapolation: sex-switching was observed in one frog species (Grant mentions West African frogs), Crichton assumed it would apply to others too (or that genes that partially coded for it would be shared).

As for the lysine contingency and the containment systems...yeah, those are massively flawed, but like many things in the book, it's arguable that it's intentional. The whole point is that Hammond hired whoever would do whatever he told them to do, not the best person for the job.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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I'm farther along. It's really interesting to listen to this in Audible form, since it adds some extra context to Malcolm in particular. His over-reaching comes across more strongly, as well as a streak of paranoia/insecurity - even before the attack and morphine haze, there's a bit in the book where he starts rambling about fractals and the world to Grant, and it totally sounds like someone rambling off their half-baked opinions to a captive audience.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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Sorry, the edit time ran out -

The T-Rex paddock is as insecure as the film, since only the fence separates T-Rex from the passenger cars on the road - when the power goes out, the T-Rex literally kicks the damn fence down. The Raptor containment is even worse, with just a double-chain linked fence with barbed wire and current running through one of the fences.

Seriously, if they're going to go to the trouble of digging deep moats to keep them apart, then there's no reason to not, say, build an elevated causeway above "biting"/jumping range for the cars to drive along through the park - with fortified gates along exits where guides could take customers out safari-style among the herbivores in gas-powered jeeps. Instead, it's all electrified fences to supplement the imperfect moat system.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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When I was reading through for my analysis, I went through and highlighted/annotated all the places I could find where it mentioned Hammond being a fucking cheapskate (or picking entertainment value over safety), ignoring his experts, then blaming them when things went wrong. It was...a lot of highlights.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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I can almost imagine a stupid logic to the reliance on electrified fences rather than better physical barriers. Aside from being cheaper to throw up, Hammond was probably thinking it was an ingenious way to simplify their logistics - if they're going to have big gas-fueled generators for the computers and automation, why not simply Go Big on electrification and use that as a primary security system? And hey, you've got a back-up system in case anything goes wrong.

As rambling crazy Morphine-Addled Malcolm gets later on, I think I'm getting what he might be angling for with the whole "thintelligence" thing. Individually, Arnold, Nedry, and Wu are very smart and capable people. It's just that collectively the whole thing's a fuck-up, with problems compounding problems.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Marko Dash »

did anybody here play the old operation genesis game? because that's the vibe i got from the movie, it even had the bossman dropping by to fly the chopper himself.


of course my parks had bunkers for the guests and remotely operated pop-up gatling turrets to killfuck any kind of saurian uprising.


and i can't help but think with all the money and tech they had access to, a couple of second or third hand tanks or even APC/IFVs would have been something a 25ton dino couldn't gut check into ruin.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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Guardsman Bass wrote:I can almost imagine a stupid logic to the reliance on electrified fences rather than better physical barriers. Aside from being cheaper to throw up, Hammond was probably thinking it was an ingenious way to simplify their logistics - if they're going to have big gas-fueled generators for the computers and automation, why not simply Go Big on electrification and use that as a primary security system? And hey, you've got a back-up system in case anything goes wrong.

As rambling crazy Morphine-Addled Malcolm gets later on, I think I'm getting what he might be angling for with the whole "thintelligence" thing. Individually, Arnold, Nedry, and Wu are very smart and capable people. It's just that collectively the whole thing's a fuck-up, with problems compounding problems.

Stupid question - many of the carnivorous dinosaurs are portrayed as having large claws - are such bony/chitinous structures conductive? I mean, sure, if the electrified fence touched the dino's skin, they'd get shocked, but would they get zapped if they just clawed it, (not saying they'd necessarily be smart enough to know better, but still)?
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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After two decades of Jurassic Park pretty much defining what the average person knows about dinosaurs, should we just officially rename Deinonychus to "Velociraptor", and just rename the actual Velociraptor to something else, so everyone stops getting confused at the Natural History Museum?

Regardless, it's a bit disappointing that this movie didn't portray this species as having feathers. Besides the fact that it actually looks really cool with feathers, it's kind of disappointing that the Jurassic Park franchise hasn't bothered to really keep up with paleontology in this regard, especially given how the original Jurassic Park was pretty much the first Hollywood movie to correctly portray dinosaurs as warm-blooded, fast moving animals that didn't drag their tails.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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After two decades of Jurassic Park pretty much defining what the average person knows about dinosaurs, should we just officially rename Deinonychus to "Velociraptor", and just rename the actual Velociraptor to something else, so everyone stops getting confused at the Natural History Museum?
Nah, it takes more than a movie to change the name of a species. Hollywood takes liberties with so many sciences these days that JP is actually not all that bad by comparison.
Regardless, it's a bit disappointing that this movie didn't portray this species as having feathers. Besides the fact that it actually looks really cool with feathers, it's kind of disappointing that the Jurassic Park franchise hasn't bothered to really keep up with paleontology in this regard, especially given how the original Jurassic Park was pretty much the first Hollywood movie to correctly portray dinosaurs as warm-blooded, fast moving animals that didn't drag their tails.
That would definitely have been cool, although to quote the annoying fat kid from JP1, "That doesn't look very scary. That looks like a 6 foot turkey."

Having feathers would (IMO) make some of the dinos look less threatening.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Gandalf »

Also, a big selling point of a dinosaur zoo would be that one could now see the creatures that they had imagined all their lives. Having them look as they really did would clash unpleasantly with that image, and potentially drive customers away.

They reference this a bit in the book of the first one, and a bit in the new film.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Channel72 »

Borgholio wrote:
Regardless, it's a bit disappointing that this movie didn't portray this species as having feathers. Besides the fact that it actually looks really cool with feathers, it's kind of disappointing that the Jurassic Park franchise hasn't bothered to really keep up with paleontology in this regard, especially given how the original Jurassic Park was pretty much the first Hollywood movie to correctly portray dinosaurs as warm-blooded, fast moving animals that didn't drag their tails.
That would definitely have been cool, although to quote the annoying fat kid from JP1, "That doesn't look very scary. That looks like a 6 foot turkey."

Having feathers would (IMO) make some of the dinos look less threatening.
It depends on how well the computer graphic designers could pull it off. It's also likely that one of the main reasons they didn't bother with the feathers was because they already had all the 3D models for the raptors/T-rex etc., from the other movies, and they just reused them. Realistic feathers would require a lot of new design work. Of course, the color they used would have to be speculative, so they'd have a lot of leeway there.

But really, nobody looks at modern predatory birds, like a condor or an eagle, and thinks "that looks stupid". I think an actual Deinonychus, complete with feathers and claws, would appear pretty threatening to most people.

Although, I can understand the hesitation to apply any feathers to the T-rex, since its appearance is at this point so culturally iconic, giving it feathers would take some getting used to. (Also, do we even know to what extent the Tyrannosaurus actually had feathers? AFAIK they weren't completely covered in feathers like Dromaeosaurids were - T-rex feathers may have appeared more like a thin layer of down.)
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Elheru Aran »

Image

Image

Image

Image

:P

No, but seriously, putting a lot of feathers on dinosaurs in a movie would make people go 'waaaaaaait. What, is that a dinosaur or, I don't know, some kind of big bird?" Well... yeah... kind of... and bird=dinosaur just doesn't translate to a lot of people.

They may have had the basic CG models from the past few movies, but they were almost certainly heavily upgraded if not remade from scratch in order to fit newer technology. Remember it's been like... 10? 15? years since Jurassic Park III.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Borgholio »

In the first picture Elheru Aran posted, that does indeed look terrifying. But Deinonychus would actually look more like the feathered Velociraptor...which isn't really all that terrifying. Even T-rex looks a bit more cuddly with a layer of down:

Image

And yes, I did just call a T-rex cuddly.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Elheru Aran »

For a look (excuse the bad CG, but it's obviously a budget production compared to Jurassic World) at feathered dinosaurs in film...

https://youtu.be/U18sOypRW8s

Check out the feathered T-Rex :D
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

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"I'm standing still so he won't see me."
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Channel72 »

An attempted recreation of a typical Deinonychus from the Natural History Museum in Vienna:

Image

I don't know - I think the feathered look is pretty awesome.

But I notice a lot of artistic recreations of these animals (especially those from actual paleontologists) choose bright colors to depict the feathers. That seems like a bad evolutionary outcome for any predatory species looking to stalk it's prey and blend into the background. I guess they had to rely on speed.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Elheru Aran »

Part of the problem is that (IMO) they overdo it just a wee bit. And the posture of many of these dinosaurs makes them look like chickens or turkeys with long tails, so they look slightly silly. I'm quite aware the movies aren't hard science and I don't look for an accurate depiction there. A little gentle feathering here and there would not have been amiss, though...
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Terralthra »

Golden oranges and reds do blend into the background, if it's an arboreal or savannah predator. Take a look at tigers, cheetahs, leopards, etc. They look garish when viewed against browns and grays in an artificially-lit environment, but if you take the same colored spots and stripes into a dappled shade on foliage background, the outline of the animal is broken up and blends into the colors very well. I'm not sure how useful countershading would be for a land predator: it doesn't seem to show up on modern ones nearly as pronouncedly. They have some, especially tigers, but not nearly as distinct as that feathered raptor.
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Re: Jurassic World - Trailer #2 (Universal Pictures) HD

Post by Zor »

Did anyone besides me tear up when they saw the maimed Apatosaurs left fro dead by I-Rex?

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