The Galactic Empire invade the Star Gate Universe

[Elheru Aran]

Perhaps...but Anubis is one of the most arrogant of all Goa'uld so he was probably just being dramatic. I know that the Ancients who helped the Abydonians ascend kept a stargate around so SG-1 could visit one last time and find out what happened. I wonder if they would be able to recreate the whole planet...

Presumably it spreads at least to the Abydos city from the movie. I don't see them moving all their people out of there and to the area right up on the Pyramid. It's very heavily implied that all the Abydonians died (okay, Ascended to be technical), so there is a minimum right there.

It's fairly unclear what exactly happened there, but it's basically stated afterwards that the Abydonians were suddenly Ascended and the Ancient(s) involved more or less redirected the Stargate wormhole from Earth into whatever dimension they were in for the moment. The Stargate on Abydos itself was either destroyed or buried by Anubis' blast. This in and of itself is not all that uncommon-- Gates are always getting buried or whatever, and you can't dial into them once they're stopped up like that. Well, in some cases you can, but the event horizon has to have room to materialize-- they managed to dial into a gate that had been recently buried by a volcanic eruption, and the kawoosh dug out a cavern into the volcanic debris. Point is it doesn't take much to prevent a Gate from dialing.

The Abydos incident demonstrates that the Ancients are capable of forcibly Ascending a large number of people within a few seconds or less, and that they can direct travel between dimensions. This is a possible although unlikely route, given how assholey the Ancients are-- if the Empire is enough of an Outside Context Problem, they might decide to just ascend everybody. More likely they'd just leave them to rot, though...

It does bear noting that Ascended or part-Ascended beings such as Priors do have some serious power at their disposal, though. Oma Desala was able to command thunderstorms that destroyed a Jaffa force, and the Priors can essentially tap directly into the power of the Ori. Speaking of which, in that episode where the Prior put up a forcefield around the Gate and they tried to blow it up, did he survive the bang? I can't remember...

[NecronLord]

If you're talking about the ancients and their power, there's also that one in SGA who obliterated a wraith fleet 'with a thought' and was punished by only being allowed to protect one planet.

We only see her attack a couple of wraith fighters with her powers, though naturally they dwarf sith lightning.



At least in terms of range.

It's unlikely they'd interfere however.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The Prior on the planet in Beachhead wasn't seen again, and his dialogue with SG-1 suggests he knew he'd die and wasn't bothered because he'd ascend.

Necronlord: Fair point. I'll concede that one.

[NecronLord]

For the techno-bugs, the big question is when this invasion occurs. If it's seasons 1-3 then the bugs aren't in the Milky Way (they don't turn up until season and they're busy fighting the Asgard in a galaxy a long way off (3 weeks at Odyssey's best speed with a ZPM, which means it's about 5 times further than Pegasus is, or about 15 million light-years). The Replicators would only learn about the SW invasion from the Asgard, and the Asgard would only learn about it from people on the Protected Planets, and those aren't going to be targets for a while (the Goa'uld being bigger threats than a group of twenty-odd lightly populated pre-industrial planets after all).

The big utility of this is that the Earthlings are willing, able, prepared and have been shown to use replicators as weapons. Sending their cloaked 304 through a wormhole to the enemy's homeworld to deploy replicators on it is actually the plot of Ark of Truth, after all.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Yeah, that is a good point.

[Elheru Aran]

The problem with using Replicators as a weapon is vividly illustrated by the fact that they can and very likely will turn back against you, though... often with a few upgrades in the process. Short term solution? Sure. Long term... ehhh. Iffy.

[SilverDragonRed]

80.7 kg*1 m/sec= 80.7 (k*m)/s
80.7*299,792,458=24,193,251,360.6
24 gigajoules

What the fuck is this?

That's not how you calculate kinetic energy. 299,792,458 is c in m/s. How the fuck does that come into it?

Are they kinetic weapons? The staff look like it's firing off an energy blast.

[FaxModem1]

Here's a matter I think needs to be brought up. How willing are the Goa'uld when it comes to alliances and uniting? Their arrogance is their biggest weakness, and I could see them having problems uniting and instead letting other System Lords fight the Empire while they themselves scoop up planets, troops, and such while they're distracted.

Another thing, how good is the Galactic Empire's medical tech when it comes to detection? The Goa'uld have used minor Goa'uld as infiltrators, brainwashed human and Tokra agents to assassinate leaders, and all sorts of dirty tricks such as turning humans into walking bombs(such as Cassandra), filling an asteroid with naquadah and heaving it at Earth so that the Tauri will nuke it and blow themselves with it, thereby negating the Protected Planets treaty, etc. If the Empire can defeat all these threats, then they're fine, if not, the Goa'uld may be able to take a few Star Destroyers and/or behead Imperial leadership and get a reprieve to rebuild.

EDIT: Had to fix a sentence

[NecronLord]

80.7 kg*1 m/sec= 80.7 (k*m)/s
80.7*299,792,458=24,193,251,360.6
24 gigajoules

What the fuck is this?

That's not how you calculate kinetic energy. 299,792,458 is c in m/s. How the fuck does that come into it?

Are they kinetic weapons? The staff look like it's firing off an energy blast.

It's up to you to explain your calculation. I would not be saying 'what the fuck' if I understood where you'd pulled it from.

[NecronLord]

The problem with using Replicators as a weapon is vividly illustrated by the fact that they can and very likely will turn back against you, though... often with a few upgrades in the process. Short term solution? Sure. Long term... ehhh. Iffy.

So? They've shown willing to do it, and it would work.

What they do after is another story.

Reminder: They were functioning exactly as planned in Ark of Truth, and were shut down at the end using the command code the IOA intended to shut them down.

[SilverDragonRed]

It's up to you to explain your calculation. I would not be saying 'what the fuck' if I understood where you'd pulled it from.

I will give it a shot then. We're talking about an energy weapon here, so I used the formula E=mc2. Because I'm deriving the result from the target of the weapon, E=m*c*c turns into E=m*(distance the target travelled)*c.

I made an assumption about how heavy the person with his armor (80.7 kg), and checked to see how far he flew back (1 m/s).
Multiplied those two results together to see what the his momentum was after being hit (80.7 kg*m/s).
Then I finished it off by multiplying the momentum by the speed of light.

[NecronLord]

E=mc² refers to:

E = The total energy released by conversion of matter to energy.
m = The mass converted.
c = the constant c.
² = You also forgot to square it.

You are talking about antimatter and other conversion of mass to energy, not merely shoving people over.

Holy shit, numbnuts, that means I have a multi-gigajoule punch, because I've knocked people over.

[Borgholio]

Determining the energy content of a high-density bolt of plasma would be better determined by trying to quantify it's effect on a known substance such as steel or rock. E=mc2 would only be used if the plasma bolt was nuclear.

[NecronLord]

Not even then. It would be used if it was say, stated to turn matter directly into energy. That's how we get figures for star wars reactor outputs when the ICS says things like "converts x tonnes of matter to energy per second."

[bilateralrope]

Lets assume the Empire tries to deal with Earth via diplomatic means. What terms are they likely to offer Earth and would any government refuse ?

How would that change if they reveal the SGC's offworld operations to the rest of Earth ?

Probably with a slant about how much danger the SGC has exposed Earth to and how the Empire is offering to help protect Earth.

[Borgholio]

What terms are they likely to offer Earth

Surrender or die.

and would any government refuse

Probably a few, and they would be shortly wiped from existence.

How would that change if they reveal the SGC's offworld operations to the rest of Earth ?

Given the shock of possibly having Darth Vader be real, alive, and walking through the main gate of the White House...I don't think anything else would really surprise us that much.

Probably with a slant about how much danger the SGC has exposed Earth to and how the Empire is offering to help protect Earth.

Possibly, if they wanted to get us to willingly join them. I don't think they'd care if they simply threatened us.

[NecronLord]

Lets assume the Empire tries to deal with Earth via diplomatic means. What terms are they likely to offer Earth and would any government refuse ?

SG Earth is generally prepared to stand up to people with far superior resources, they do this throughout the show's run, they usually have a convoluted plan, too, in fairness, to win, but then, as for season 10 SGC, they still have the chance to beat the Empire (see Replicators as weapons, below).



For the record, this scene is taking place on a cloaked ship. The Empire/Seperatists cannot generally detect cloaked ships (See ESB, Clone Wars).

This conversation can be easily applied to the Empire, substitute 'ori' for 'imperial' in this scene and it works just fine, though naturally it would be easier to just drop the replicator off on one of their heavily industrialized worlds and let it get out of control. Alternatively, they could sneak it onto an Imperial ship using their cloaking technology, cloaked vessels can fly right up to Imperial/Seperatist ships without difficulty.

Send the Stand Down code to Atlantis (if it's back in Pegasus) and delete all copies on Earth or even better, Destiny, and the Empire will be eaten by the bugs, and without intergalactic hyperdrive, they cannot even torture it out of people on Earth. Demand the Empire surrender in exchange for activating the stand-down code.

How would that change if they reveal the SGC's offworld operations to the rest of Earth ?

Probably with a slant about how much danger the SGC has exposed Earth to and how the Empire is offering to help protect Earth.

There is nowhere in the canon with the empire offering to protect anyone or doing anything but rolling up and kicking fruit sellers and stealing their stuff. With the demise of legacies from the canon, all subtlety in presenting the Empire has gone under the bus.

[Elheru Aran]

Surrender or die? Not sure about that. It would probably be worded a little more like "hello, we have 20 Star Destroyers parked in orbit. We would like to discuss terms for a mutually beneficial agreement that will serve our two peoples the best. I would like to emphasize that should you not be interested in discussion, we shall have to pursue aggressive negotiations. Here's our card. Call anytime in the next, oh, hour? Pleasure talking. We'll do lunch." Really, the 'or die' part is a bit of overreaction. The Imperial Diplomatic Corps would disapprove, and if you're talking extra-galactic conquest, dollars to donuts they would be along for the ride. It's a bit of a shame that the only face of the OT Empire we saw was the military and the Emperor. Bit one-sided there.

By Season... I think it was 6 or 7, at the very least the major world powers' governments were aware of the SGC. So revealing its existence to the public honestly wouldn't do a whole lot other than cause a bit of a stir; the governments would be like "Yes, we know, so what?". Freakin' Canada even knows about the SGC (Mackay is Canadian IIRC).

[gigabytelord]

Freakin' Canada even knows about the SGC (Mackay is Canadian IIRC).

You are correct. There are also several UK scientists as well as scientists from a number of other European nations on the Atlantis team. Dr. Zelenka for example is from the Czech Republic.

[Batman]

Um-Meredith knowing about the program isn't the same as Canada knowing. There's plenty of nonamericans on the Atlantis expedition, the individuals knowing of the Stargate program doesn't automatically translate into their government knowing.

[Elheru Aran]

Freakin' Canada even knows about the SGC (Mackay is Canadian IIRC).

You are correct. There are also several UK scientists as well as scientists from a number of other European nations on the Atlantis team. Dr. Zelenka for example is from the Czech Republic.

Right. So the governments have little to care about there. Somehow I think the fact that there are Star Destroyers in orbit and a literal army prepared to steamroll the planet are going to be a bigger priority to most of the population than the fact that the US has been operating a covert team exploring the stars through a stone ring for the past few years.

And I think that if an individual is bearing that country's flag-- *especially* if they're military-- the background checks and everything else alone would have made sure that their country got involved. It's not like a random Canadian is going to walk onto the base, put on an uniform and hop through the Gate. This is especially true with Atlantis as IIRC they specifically stated that the people being sent were "some of the best" and you're talking national pride there.

[NecronLord]

Um-Meredith knowing about the program isn't the same as Canada knowing. There's plenty of nonamericans on the Atlantis expedition, the individuals knowing of the Stargate program doesn't automatically translate into their government knowing.

The IOA was set up after Anubis' attack on earth, which destroyed the Nimitz and her CSG along with numerous communications systems. At least twelve states were part of the negotiations that set it up in New Order:

JACKSON: Elizabeth. Almost ready. Can't believe we're finally going. I mean, I know I should have been ready a long time ago but I needed some ...

WEIR: The talks have stalled again.

JACKSON: You're kidding me.

WEIR: It's a complicated situation.

JACKSON: The Antarctic Treaty was established to promote scientific research in the area.

WEIR: With the interests of progress for all mankind, not just that of the United States. So argue the other eleven states, all claiming shared jurisdiction. I mean, Article 1 states quite clearly there can be no establishment of any military base, and no testing of any weapons. You saw first-hand how powerful the Ancient outpost is.

JACKSON: And so meanwhile Jack just stays frozen in a stasis pod down there? He sacrificed himself to save us -- all of us, not just this country.

WEIR: I know, but the scale of Anubis' attack makes covering it up tenuous at best. If we're gonna keep the entire world from finding out everything to do with the Stargate, we're gonna need the full co-operation of every government now aware of what's been going on. It's just gonna take more time.

Fans have observed the following nations' flags on uniforms in the Atlantis expedition: it is popularly speculated that this means that those nations signed on for the IOA later. However, it is notable that Dr Beckett wears a Scottish flag, perhaps indicating that Scotland is sovereign in the SG setting, or that some preference is possible for wearers.

There are at least 12, including the United States, though.

[Eternal_Freedom]

You don't need to reach that far to establish that Canada knows. In season 7's Lost City, President Hayes tells his people to "inform the governments of Russia, Great Britain, China France and Canada, let 'em know what we think is coming."

[NecronLord]

Point. As of that episode, it's 12 though, that much we know.

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Fans have observed the following nations' flags on uniforms in the Atlantis expedition: it is popularly speculated that this means that those nations signed on for the IOA later. However, it is notable that Dr Beckett wears a Scottish flag, perhaps indicating that Scotland is sovereign in the SG setting, or that some preference is possible for wearers.

There are at least 12, including the United States, though.

Going by that list, one wonders what the Central African Republic is doing there. The CAR ranked 185th out of 187 countries in the most recent Human Development Report, there was a civil war from 2004 to 2007, and there's ongoing sectarian violence since 2012. They already have enough to worry about at home without having to deal with extraplanetary threats.

As for Zimbabwe, who knows. Maybe Robert Mugabe was killed or otherwise deposed, and Zimbabwe is now a functional state again.