A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Simon_Jester wrote:1200 of the things should have a combined impact on par with a big nuke- the amount of directional energy going into the hull should exceed that from O'Neil's patented Nuclear Backpack Trick, even given that the backpack was fixed to the hull.
It's probably another math goof/tragic misunderstanding of physics. I will note, though, that they didn't all hit at once but were strung out along a 5-20 second period.

The ACS was supposed to operate with a hypersonic shuttle that could deliver a couple battalions of ACS anywhere in the globe within a couple hours, and a super-artillery piece. The HOW-2000 was held back for unspecified reasons though, and every single model of the Banshee shuttle became some God-king's breakfast.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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So how does the ACS stack up? Pretty damn well. I’d rate it as below the better Iron Man armors, but well above most every other form of power armor. Actually, I have to work at it a bit to find any armor set it wouldn’t be a joke to compare it to. So far I have 40K Terminator armor, the nameless power armor from March Upcountry, the Armor from Armor, and Samus Arans armor. A number of these I believe offer similar protection, some have abilities the ACS does not, but only Samus has the combination of protection, firepower and mobility to really be considered as a match.
But there is only one Samus, while at one point there were 7 divisions of ACS on earth, by the end of the Posleen War this was reduced to 2 battalions, and only a single corps by the final destruction of the ACS just before the Hedren conflict. There lack of serious endurance could be an issue in a protracted conflict, but in the short term the ACS were designed and built to navigate a chaotic battlefield adroitly and bring down a world of hurt on anyone they meet.
The ACS is obviously the greatest obstacle to any invasion of Posleen-verse Earth.

In space, Posleen-verse earth is probably in a lot of trouble. They have exactly zero space assets in the first book. In the second they have 3 squadrons (36-72, depending on who’s squadrons) of space fighters, from a planned production of over 2 million. The Space Falcon is armed with twin terawatt lasers, and a lance battery of unspecified (but implied generous) size. Lances are antimatter missiles with AID-level AI for guidance. Space Falcons can achieve, briefly, an acceleration of 660 Gs.

The only other space asset at that time were 17 ‘fast frigates’ meaning ancient, falling apart Indowy freighters rigged to fit external box-launchers for 24 lances. Plus 2 more launchers, so 12 more missiles in storage that could be brought out and reloaded between fights by EVA crews. Indowy freighters are egg-shaped. At the time of the initial landing, only 1 of these ships had fully operational drives and weapons.

At some point, if not before the ‘scouting’ wave then not long after, a dome-city was constructed on Titan as a shipyard. It churns out destroyers, cruisers, and battleships. It is established later that most earth-designed warships are cylindrical in shape and armed with “a mix of mass-drivers and plasma cannon.” There is some dispute about ship sizes, we’re given mass figures for a single cruiser twice. On the same page. That are incompatible. The first being that it is roughly the same mass as the USS Des Moines the other being 53,000 tons.

There are also ‘bombardment cruisers’ specialized for dropping rocks from orbit, and supermonitors that kill globes. Over a dozen supermonitors are built, destroyed, recovered, and rebuilt. Some are on their fourth or fifth version. The main weapon of the supermonitor is a ‘hypercannon’ that seems to be a sort of hybrid concept between the grav-guns and the SheVa. Described as a ‘big-ass mass driver’ that throws a ‘destroyer-sized’ projectile (and given what little we know about hsip sizes, I find it hard to believe a destroyer is less than 10,000 tons, I have another reason for this I’ll get to when I get into the Hedren War stuff.) that spears into the heart of a globe before releasing ‘enough antimatter to make the local area a slice of hell.’ Even with all of this, 30-50% of a globe will survive and vengefully swarm the monitor.

The Fleet drew heavily for personnel on the old-fashioned ‘wet navies’ mostly of European/American. Special value was attached to fighter pilots for the Space Falcons, and submariners for the regular ships. However, the Fleet had a very high attrition rate, due to Darhel meddling and sabotage, and quickly ran out of competent western sailors. So the Fleet became dominated by Indonesians and Filipinos who tended to understand the importance of bowing and scraping before the Darhel. In no other place is the Darhels influence more felt than in the Fleet, which is why it took several months and a quiet conspiracy of old, western officers to arrange for the Fleet to save Earth and end the Posleen War.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Ahriman238 wrote:The only other space asset at that time were 17 ‘fast frigates’ meaning ancient, falling apart Indowy freighters rigged to fit external box-launchers for 24 lances. Plus 2 more launchers, so 12 more missiles in storage that could be brought out and reloaded between fights by EVA crews. Indowy freighters are egg-shaped. At the time of the initial landing, only 1 of these ships had fully operational drives and weapons.
The frigate in question, I believe, exploded when firing its own missiles- taking MAD MIKE'S wife with it, which contributed to his overall grouchiness during the war.
At some point, if not before the ‘scouting’ wave then not long after, a dome-city was constructed on Titan as a shipyard. It churns out destroyers, cruisers, and battleships. It is established later that most earth-designed warships are cylindrical in shape and armed with “a mix of mass-drivers and plasma cannon.” There is some dispute about ship sizes, we’re given mass figures for a single cruiser twice. On the same page. That are incompatible. The first being that it is roughly the same mass as the USS Des Moines the other being 53,000 tons.
Me, I believe the latter. Unless you have a strongly compelling reason to take the former.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Simon_Jester wrote:
Ahriman238 wrote:The only other space asset at that time were 17 ‘fast frigates’ meaning ancient, falling apart Indowy freighters rigged to fit external box-launchers for 24 lances. Plus 2 more launchers, so 12 more missiles in storage that could be brought out and reloaded between fights by EVA crews. Indowy freighters are egg-shaped. At the time of the initial landing, only 1 of these ships had fully operational drives and weapons.
The frigate in question, I believe, exploded when firing its own missiles- taking MAD MIKE'S wife with it, which contributed to his overall grouchiness during the war.
This is so. A C-Dec popped out of hyper right in front, and they fired the missiles that the EVA crew were still in the process of loading. Somehow this translates into the missiles detonating in place and killing the ship. What, did they never hear of minimum arming distances? Did the AI on the missiles decided they had nowhere better to go? Did the improperly aligned jets for the missiles kill the ship? We don't know. Order to fire, no wait! Fireball.
simon wrote:
At some point, if not before the ‘scouting’ wave then not long after, a dome-city was constructed on Titan as a shipyard. It churns out destroyers, cruisers, and battleships. It is established later that most earth-designed warships are cylindrical in shape and armed with “a mix of mass-drivers and plasma cannon.” There is some dispute about ship sizes, we’re given mass figures for a single cruiser twice. On the same page. That are incompatible. The first being that it is roughly the same mass as the USS Des Moines the other being 53,000 tons.
Me, I believe the latter. Unless you have a strongly compelling reason to take the former.
No particular bias, though the higher-end figure could make guesstimating the size of other ships, particularly the destroyers, interesting. I just wish the man could go for a while, say a book or two without contradicting himself on the very. Same.,PAGE! Who is this man's editor?

EDIT: Typo messed up my quote tags. Fixed.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Ahriman238 wrote:
This is so. A C-Dec popped out of hyper right in front, and they fired the missiles that the EVA crew were still in the process of loading. Somehow this translates into the missiles detonating in place and killing the ship. What, did they never hear of minimum arming distances? Did the AI on the missiles decided they had nowhere better to go? Did the improperly aligned jets for the missiles kill the ship? We don't know. Order to fire, no wait! Fireball.
If they're antimatter missiles, they'll blow anyway if they're damaged enough to lose containment.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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If any given Sci-fi force were to invade Posleen-verse earth during the first book, it would barely be any different than attacking present earth, save for the presence of a few companies of ACS and public acknowledgement of the existence of aliens. By the second, however…

By Gust Front the world is united, for a certain value of united. The major industrialized nations have gotten their act together in the face of mutual annihilation. The third world nations, particularly Africa and South America, seem to be on their own, no one seriously believing they can be united in a couple years. The US does however, ship out a lot of military surplus, for free, to any government that wants it. In those major nations, mass conscription begins. Of course, all the Galtech is being used in the ACS or the construction of the Sub-urbs, so everyone fights using existing hardware.

The series tends to focus a lot on local (American) events and fighting rather than the global situation, so that’s what most information is on. We do know that the Balkans, Switzerland, Tibet and Nepal were able to do a lot of forting up thanks to their mountainous terrain, and that every ‘major’ nation got a division of ACS, 2 for the US because we’re that special, and a squad of ACS for the President's bodyguard. I suspect there’s an ACS unit for India in there, since they got a PDF and everyone else who got one also had an ACS division.

GalTech Planetary Defense Forts are commissioned, 5 in total. Each to be a bunker proof against orbital bombardment bristling with 9 anti-lander grav-cannon. However, none of these are finished by the time of the scout wave. Underground cities are built all over the world to house refugees.

In the US, old battleships and heavy cruisers are reconditioned and refit as offshore artillery platforms. They also convert several submarines into unarmed underwater personnel ferries. After an abortive attempt to keep some recon aircraft around, the Air force is basically dissolved into the Fleet. On the ground, they start churning out tanks and AFVs as quickly as possible, and building the Wall. A subtle government program encourages the creation of military caches across the nation. Special Forces train those too old or young to join the Army in insurgency-type tactics.

A massive surveying project is also undertaken, to allow for accurate artillery fire in the absence of GPS. And John Ringo manages to make a self-contradictory statement again. Allegedly, each Division’s artillery is tripled… by the addition of 3 batteries of vehicle mounted howitzers. That would be enough to double a brigade’s artillery, but a division by definition consists of multiple brigades, and would have Division Artillery in addition.

Very large numbers of mines and caltrops are created, and distributed with good cheer. Automated machine guns, called manjacks, are likewise built in large numbers and handed out to military forces. The benefits to these seem somewhat dubious, since in the book they have armed crews standing rightin the room with the manjack.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Ahriman238 wrote:The series tends to focus a lot on local (American) events and fighting rather than the global situation, so that’s what most information is on. We do know that the Balkans, Switzerland, Tibet and Nepal were able to do a lot of forting up thanks to their mountainous terrain, and that every ‘major’ nation got a division of ACS, 2 for the US because we’re that special, and a squad of ACS for the President's bodyguard. I suspect there’s an ACS unit for India in there, since they got a PDF and everyone else who got one also had an ACS division.
The 2 for the US was probably mostly a question of the US providing a big chunk of the initial surge of personnel- at the time the novels took place we still had one of the larger armies in the world, certainly one of the larger well-trained ones, and far and away the largest navy. So the US would be particularly well placed to train ACS personnel in quantity, or to pay for them with anything Earth-manufactured the Darhel would be willing to trade for.
Very large numbers of mines and caltrops are created, and distributed with good cheer. Automated machine guns, called manjacks, are likewise built in large numbers and handed out to military forces. The benefits to these seem somewhat dubious, since in the book they have armed crews standing rightin the room with the manjack.
Advantages- one crew can potentially oversee several manjacks (sort of like automated checkouts at the grocery store). Another possibility is that they were hoping to ramp up manjack production to a scale large enough that they would need to have one machine gun team overseeing several manjacks apiece, but weren't able to produce them in adequate numbers as of Gust Front.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Ahriman238 wrote:
Very large numbers of mines and caltrops are created, and distributed with good cheer. Automated machine guns, called manjacks, are likewise built in large numbers and handed out to military forces. The benefits to these seem somewhat dubious, since in the book they have armed crews standing rightin the room with the manjack.
The Manjacks seem rather dumb for automated turrets and engage any movement sources. I don't remember sophisticated IFF's or anything, they are just turrets that engage moment useful for strengthening the firing lines. After all if your holed up in a three story building you can place your five manjacks in various rooms along with fire team elements who's job it is to engage the enemy from the rooms other windows and keep the Manjack feed with ammo as required. Making the turrets dumb makes them easy to use, this end towards enemy, load with ammo and turn on anyone can use one. By contrast however anyone can use one and they don't discriminant much on what they shoot.

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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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The invasion timeline from the books at least gives you an idea of how the global defense forces were arrayed. In order of capitulation we have...


October 9, 2004 - First Landing Five Globes: Landings: Fredericksburg, Central Africa, S.E. Asia, Uzbekistan.
I believe the Uzbek invasion mostly starved to death in the cold.

July 28, 2005 - First Wave 62 Globes: Primary Landings: East Coast North America, Australia, India.

August 15, 2005 - Last Transmission: Australian Defense Command, Alice Springs.

April 12, 2006 - Second Wave 45 Globes: Primary Landings: China, South America, West Coast N.A., Middle East, S.E. Asia.

May 14, 2006 - Last Transmission: Chinese Red Army, Xianging.
This is also when China did its 'nuke spam' which fucked up global weather patterns. Later it was found the launch order came from the AID network, in punishment by the Darhel for China realizing what the Federation would actually pay for trained ACS troops.

May 28, 2006 - Last Transmission: Turkic Alliance, Jalalabad.

June 18, 2006 - Last Transmission: Combined Indochina Command, Angkor Wat.

December 19, 2006 - Last Transmission: Allies of the Book, Jerusalem.
There's a fan-written story which has become canon about the situation in the middle east, which details the fall of Saudi Arabia as well.

January 23, 2007 - Battle of L3: Loss of Supermonitor Lexington, Task Fleet 4.2.

February 17, 2007 - Battle of Titan Base.
Battle of Titan Base was the largest entirely spaceborne engagement of the entire war, with Titan Base narrowly surviving an encounter with several battle globes which were the precursor to the 3rd posleen wave.

March 27, 2007 - Third Wave 73 Globes: Landings: Europe, North Africa, India II, South America II.

April, 30, 2007 - Last Transmission: Islamic Defense Forces, Khartoum.

July 5, 2007 - Last Transmission: Indian Defense Force, Gujarrat. India fought on for two solid years in the face of grusome odds. Go India.

August 25, 2007 - Last Transmission: Forces of Bolivar, Paraguay.

September 24, 2007 - First Battle of Irmansul: Loss of Supermonitor Enterprise, Yamato, Halsey, Lexington II, Kuznetsov, Victory, Bismarck. Task Fleets 77.1, 4.4, 11.

December 17, 2007 - Second Battle of Earth: Loss of Supermonitor Moscow, Honshu, Mao. Task Fleet 7.1, 4.1, 14.

December 18, 2007 - Fourth Wave 65 Globes: Primary Landings: China II, East Coast North America II, Europe II, India III.

March 14, 2008 - Last Transmission: European Union Forces, Innsbruck. It was later retconned that this referred to only 'continental' Europe, and that significant forces, military equipment, and personnel escaped to Scandinavia. In England, British forces survived behind a reverse 'Hadrian's Wall' as detailed in the canon fanfic 'Yeoman of England'.

August 28, 2008 - Fifth Wave 64 Globes: Primary Landings: West Coast North America II, East Coast North America III, Russia, Central Asia, South Africa, South America III.

September 17, 2008- Last Transmission: Grand African Alliance, Pietermaritzburg.

October 12, 2008Last Transmission: Red Army, Nizhny Novgorod.

October 21, 2008Official Determination: No coherent field forces outside of North America. November 14, 2008Second Battle of Irmansul: Loss of Supermonitor Lexington III, Yamato II, Task Fleet 14.

December 1, 2008Senate Select Committee classified report: Earth Human Population Estimate 1.4 billion Posleen Population Estimate: In excess of 12 billion.

May 26, 2009Last operational Posleen force destroyed on Irmansul.

The last bit has been retconned as well. Surviving military forces persisted in the Andes, Northern Asia, the Himilayas, and on isolated islands. I believe its been speculated (but not confirmed) that Iceland, Ireland, Hokkaido, Cuba, and a few other sizable islands survived relatively unscathed.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Mr Bean wrote:
Ahriman238 wrote:
Very large numbers of mines and caltrops are created, and distributed with good cheer. Automated machine guns, called manjacks, are likewise built in large numbers and handed out to military forces. The benefits to these seem somewhat dubious, since in the book they have armed crews standing rightin the room with the manjack.
The Manjacks seem rather dumb for automated turrets and engage any movement sources. I don't remember sophisticated IFF's or anything, they are just turrets that engage moment useful for strengthening the firing lines. After all if your holed up in a three story building you can place your five manjacks in various rooms along with fire team elements who's job it is to engage the enemy from the rooms other windows and keep the Manjack feed with ammo as required. Making the turrets dumb makes them easy to use, this end towards enemy, load with ammo and turn on anyone can use one. By contrast however anyone can use one and they don't discriminant much on what they shoot.
They don't even target moving sources, and they don't sweep like the later versions on the Wall. They fire whenever something wanders in front of the barrel. And yes, there's nothing like an IFF you can use.

It does occur to me that since the first (or first dozen) people to open fire usually get singled out by the God-kings' automatic weapons, this could be a way to keep the soldiers on the line relatively safe. But like I said, in Richmond there were soldiers in the same room as the manjacks.
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The last bit has been retconned as well. Surviving military forces persisted in the Andes, Northern Asia, the Himilayas, and on isolated islands. I believe its been speculated (but not confirmed) that Iceland, Ireland, Hokkaido, Cuba, and a few other sizable islands survived relatively unscathed.
Thanks Chewie, that segues nicely into this. I personally think the third/fourth book is the most interesting place to have a versus debate. At this point earth is largely overrun and controlled by the Posleen, with resistance groups everywhere and the US holed up behind a big-ass wall. Where the Wall is strong, it’s really strong. Seven stories tall, with an entire Corps behind it and on top of it, a network of trenches as fallback positions, 2 or 3 miles of mines, dozens of automated machine guns (serious refinements of the manjack concept) lots of barbed wire, an unspecified anti-lander weapon platform (literally all we have is a throwaway line about the Wall having ‘Shrike’ anti-lander weapons) and some sort of larger reusable claymores all along the base. Where it’s weak… it’s a 20 ft concrete wall with barbed wire about the top and infrequently patrolled. To be fair, this is how it is where the Posleen probably can’t reach, and definitely not in serious numbers, Posleen not being very good climbers. A highway runs along the interior of the wall. Special forces teams hop the wall for recon purposes, as do the odd suicide UAV or camera-shell.

Almost a decade after first contact, mankind’s dealings with aliens have given us reliable fusion (still much bigger and less efficient than the Galactic version) limited antimatter production, locally produced railguns (though still a long way from being standard issue) and a ‘static rappel system’ that uses the magic momentum redirection to make sure you never almost hit the ground, or any other stationary objects, hard enough to wind you (a similar system is part of the suits.) Naturally it gets installed in every motor vehicle in the US. And… that’s just about it for major advances in technology, unless you count the ability to laugh at physics and build a SheVa. And the Land Warrior, Metal Storm, Black Rhinos and a .65 handgun. Oh, and finally tank armor that can stand up to most Posleen weapons. I think it was Raxmei who said the series felt like a checklist of things for firearm fanboys to wank over. Well spotted. One bit of GalTech has been generally produced and spread around, the “Bouncing Barbie” reusable cuisinart mines. Actually, Hiberzine and Provigil-C also seem common.

I should note on the armor front both the failed Metal Storm anti-lander tanks, and the eventual Abrams with largely-resistant to Posleen weapons frontal armor and covered with machine guns. The main gun fire canister shot with 2000 flechettes.

Special note should be given to the original, fixed Casta gun at Tennessee U. The one that can launch small packages into orbit, or fire a shell that drops 55 different 2 megaton antimatter bombs.

The premier non-suit unit of this conflict is the 10K, a division built around those who stood their ground at the battle of the Washington Mall in the second book. This group happened to contain the recently rejuvenated and recalled Medal of Honor winners. All of them. They were supposed to stiffen forces all over the country, but it was decided to keep them all in one division.

*There are two explanations, though they aren't at all mutually exclusive, that can account as to how China fell so quickly. One is a deliberate retcon, the other is not. Different Posleen twice muse about how wildly sucsessful their rarely used airmobile and air support tactics were in the first wave, before the SheVa were built. While in later books it is very strongly implied that the Darhel somehow sabotaged China's defenses as petty revenge for a PLA clerk noticing the Darhel were massively underpaying all human military personnel, leading the world's governments to renegotiate the original deal.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Ahriman238 wrote:
They don't even target moving sources, and they don't sweep like the later versions on the Wall. They fire whenever something wanders in front of the barrel. And yes, there's nothing like an IFF you can use.

It does occur to me that since the first (or first dozen) people to open fire usually get singled out by the God-kings' automatic weapons, this could be a way to keep the soldiers on the line relatively safe. But like I said, in Richmond there were soldiers in the same room as the manjacks.
Were these the bastards who got themselves killed because they forgot to safe one of their manjacks and an entire brigade of Posleen shot up their building?
If so it makes perfect sense to hide in the same room, you got to have someone to turn the things on after all. That was probably not where their fighting positions where but the only open area out of direct observation where they could wait.

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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Mr Bean wrote:
Ahriman238 wrote:
They don't even target moving sources, and they don't sweep like the later versions on the Wall. They fire whenever something wanders in front of the barrel. And yes, there's nothing like an IFF you can use.

It does occur to me that since the first (or first dozen) people to open fire usually get singled out by the God-kings' automatic weapons, this could be a way to keep the soldiers on the line relatively safe. But like I said, in Richmond there were soldiers in the same room as the manjacks.
Were these the bastards who got themselves killed because they forgot to safe one of their manjacks and an entire brigade of Posleen shot up their building?
If so it makes perfect sense to hide in the same room, you got to have someone to turn the things on after all. That was probably not where their fighting positions where but the only open area out of direct observation where they could wait.
Those're the ones. Well, obviously there wany other manjacks and men in similar positions. WIth their safeties on.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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It wasn't that the safety wasn't on, it wasn't supposed to be. The misfiring manjack was targeted a lot further out than the others, mistakenly, so instead of all the manjacks opening fire at once one of them went off about a minute early.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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CaptainChewbacca wrote:It wasn't that the safety wasn't on, it wasn't supposed to be. The misfiring manjack was targeted a lot further out than the others, mistakenly, so instead of all the manjacks opening fire at once one of them went off about a minute early.
It was also misaimed, but it was also supposed to be an ambush. All the manjacks were saftied until the attack signal was given. All but one. Though to be fair the two NCOs who should have checked also decided they had better things to do.

The SheVa is, of course, a logical impossibility. Heck, there are two impossibilities mentioned just in the listing of it's size and weight. It's a mobile platform, capable of at doing least 40 mph and climbing 30 degree slopes, for a 16" gun triple the length of a battleship's. The gun has a number of ammunition types. The standard is a DU sabot round, 8"x6' with a 10 kt antimatter charge. This is used to kill Posleen Lampreys and C-Decs inside the atmosphere. For supporting troops, it also has a 100 kt area denial round. There are other, unspecified ammunition types, and one may account for one round doing 2500 m/s and another going 4x as quickly. Despite massing about as much as a battleship, a SheVa carries only 8 rounds in it's magazine.

Regarding the gun, I calc impact energy at roughly 3.5 gigajoules. MkShep says 500 megajoules and TimC says 1700 mj. I'm not sure it matters that much, except as a reflection of what it takes to penetrate Posleen ship armor. Despite having impressive accuracy, the SheVa turret can only turn so quickly, so it can't track and engage fast-moving aircraft. For the SheVa to be much of an issue in vs. debates, the enemy must have ships that A.) more or less hang around there, or move rather slowly and B.) are somewhat vulnerable to nuclear detonations. Maybe they could take the Independance Day aliens without their shields. Then again, maybe not.

The SheVa is driven by 4 nuclear reactors powering induction engines. Minimizing crew was apparently a big concern, so it uses a special, safer form of reactor that doesn't require constant supervision. In fact, a SheVa crew is just 3 people. A SheVa repair crew, however, is over a thousand men, with much heavy machinery and explosives. A SheVa carries a fully armed and outfitted Abrams tank as an escape vehicle, that can be dropped straight to the ground using the static rappel system. Because if a SheVa crew is bailing, the SheVa is probably about to go nuclear. When stationary, a SheVa deploys 'camo-foam' that covers the SheVa in a mound of foam that hardens to look like a hill or a rock formation. Camo-foam is at once weather resistant, and kind of just flakes off when the SheVa moves. A SheVa is at it's most vulnerable between the initial deployment and the foam hardening.

SheVa 9 (Bun-Bun) is later specially modified. 2 more nuclear reactors are added, to give it more torque and redundancy. A 5,000 gallon squirt gun is added as a defense against plasma weapons. It's forward armor is heavily reinforced, 12 Metal Storm tank turrets are welded on top of the SheVa's turret for dealing with infantry, and 10 reusable claymores are added incase the Metal Storm turrets aren't enough. We'll call it a SheVa Mk II.

We have to, if only to keep my sanity a little better. Because despite the SheVas all being decomissioned after the Posleen War, 60 years later we've moved up to SheVa Mk VII. I wish I was joking.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

Post by Ahriman238 »

Alright, I'm just about finished with Eye, and I've read the first half or so of Cally's War. Couple of things I want to get off my chest.

First, the spin-off books seem to take place 50-60 years after the main quartet. Ok, that's fine. Having time pass is a great way to add some depth to your story, introduce new characters... except that they're all the same fucking characters. Ok. I get that they have rejuv. I get that humanity is a lot smaller now, but seriously? So Jimmy just happens to run into his old commander's daughter, who is working with another old comrade of his?

Also, the Darhel are still running the show. Nobody can lift off spaceships without their allowing it, because of AID backdoors, and anyone making trouble for the Darhel gets iced by one of their many human assasins. Plus they vansh a colony ship every so often for population control. Besides the Bane Sidhe, there is no effective resistance, and even IRON MIKE has learned not to ask too many questions.

Sohon is not just a neat party trick and a way to manufacture impossible things. It is a philosophy and a way of life. It is the path that lead the Aldenata to shed their physical forms, and it is how the iNdowy hope to follow them. Oh, and sohon masters, called mentats (subtle. I have no idea where he got that from.) can skip the manufacturing and affect the world directly through their nanites, flying, breathing in space, bending light, warping space and sundry other effects. Ok, I apologize. I guess sohon really is magic.

We finally see a Posleen nanoforge in action, and it is impressive. Raw materials go in one end, finished product out the other within seconds. Just as long as it's fed power, and it seems to take a fair bit of power, materials, and has schematics uploaded craftsmanship and build times are not an issue. It can make anything up to the size of a car, and components that can be easily fit together for larger things. The only catch is that it can't make impossible or unavailable models like sohon. It can't pull apart an atom into it's component particles and rebuild them as a desired element. You want steel? It can make steel, feed it iron and carbon. You want bullets? Better have some copper and zinc on hand.

There's a throwaway line implying that a larger version of this same tech is used to make ships.

The last ACS corps is destroyed about an eigth of the way through the book, but this is actually okay, since it means they have no choice but to make advanced technology available to all the soldiers. Yay!

The SS from Kratman's book are in there. It seems after the war they were thanked for their service, then asked to leave. They had to carve out their own settlement in the wilderness. These European people are so mean to the poor widdle SS. i mean, what did the Nazis ever do to them? :roll:

Also, according to Herr Bigshot Feldmarshel, 30% of his people are Jewish, mostly survivors from the destruction of Jerusalem. I can buy refugees from the Mid East going to Europe, and enlisting to fight the Posleen. But getting an Israeli into SS uniform? I call bullshit. I can buy the grav-gun as long as I look at the conservative numbers. I can accept the SheVa, if only for the sake of good yarn (and the tank was this big) but this smashed through my suspension of disbelief like a hurricane through tissue paper.

Finally, Daisy Mae. An AID is accidently left on while shipped to Earth, causing it to spend 'subjective millenia' in a state of sensory/information deprivation. This AID is then hooled up, in the early stages of the Posleen invasion, to the USS Des Moines, CA 134. Desperate for an identity, the AID downloads all available information on the ship, and recreates itself as 'Daisy Mae.' Then she spreads the nanites the AIDs apparently run on throughout the ship, effectively making it her body. Eventually, she clones herself a human avatar. The whole thing is very Andromeda. Later, when she was sank, she kept the avatar, the captain and the ship's cat alive by sort of using her nanites as improvised Hiberzine. This had the side effect of giving the cat a human-level intellect. It is strongly implied that the captain and the ship are lovers.

So, Daisy Mae is one of the only truly clean AIDs, having long ago dealt with the Darhel backdoors in her system. So she is approached and eventually they get 7 sohon masters to remake her into a spaceship. First of the next generation of Earth warships. They start with the overpowered ship the Darhel never let the Fleet build, lest the humans become too powerful. Then one mentat has an idea for a weapon, that involves a large dome that looks like a breast. Some joking later, and the Des Moines is turned into a golden naked woman, with retractable angel wings. 2 Quantum Tangler weapons in the chest, additional power generators make the curved hips, a fighter bay between her legs...

Just...why? Not that I don't usually love novel starship designs, but maybe not ships as conceived by Shroomy?
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

Post by Ahriman238 »

Alright, I'm just about finished with Eye, and I've read the first half or so of Cally's War. Couple of things I want to get off my chest.

First, the spin-off books seem to take place 50-60 years after the main quartet. Ok, that's fine. Having time pass is a great way to add some depth to your story, introduce new characters... except that they're all the same fucking characters. Ok. I get that they have rejuv. I get that humanity is a lot smaller now, but seriously? So Jimmy just happens to run into his old commander's daughter, who is working with another old comrade of his?

Also, the Darhel are still running the show. Nobody can lift off spaceships without their allowing it, because of AID backdoors, and anyone making trouble for the Darhel gets iced by one of their many human assasins. Plus they vansh a colony ship every so often for population control. Besides the Bane Sidhe, there is no effective resistance, and even IRON MIKE has learned not to ask too many questions.

Sohon is not just a neat party trick and a way to manufacture impossible things. It is a philosophy and a way of life. It is the path that lead the Aldenata to shed their physical forms, and it is how the iNdowy hope to follow them. Oh, and sohon masters, called mentats (subtle. I have no idea where he got that from.) can skip the manufacturing and affect the world directly through their nanites, flying, breathing in space, bending light, warping space and sundry other effects. Ok, I apologize. I guess sohon really is magic.

We finally see a Posleen nanoforge in action, and it is impressive. Raw materials go in one end, finished product out the other within seconds. Just as long as it's fed power, and it seems to take a fair bit of power, materials, and has schematics uploaded craftsmanship and build times are not an issue. It can make anything up to the size of a car, and components that can be easily fit together for larger things. The only catch is that it can't make impossible or unavailable models like sohon. It can't pull apart an atom into it's component particles and rebuild them as a desired element. You want steel? It can make steel, feed it iron and carbon. You want bullets? Better have some copper and zinc on hand.

There's a throwaway line implying that a larger version of this same tech is used to make ships.

The last ACS corps is destroyed about an eigth of the way through the book, but this is actually okay, since it means they have no choice but to make advanced technology available to all the soldiers. Yay!

The SS from Kratman's book are in there. It seems after the war they were thanked for their service, then asked to leave. They had to carve out their own settlement in the wilderness. These European people are so mean to the poor widdle SS. i mean, what did the Nazis ever do to them? :roll:

Also, according to Herr Bigshot Feldmarshel, 30% of his people are Jewish, mostly survivors from the destruction of Jerusalem. I can buy refugees from the Mid East going to Europe, and enlisting to fight the Posleen. But getting an Israeli into SS uniform? I call bullshit. I can buy the grav-gun as long as I look at the conservative numbers. I can accept the SheVa, if only for the sake of good yarn (and the tank was this big) but this smashed through my suspension of disbelief like a hurricane through tissue paper.

Finally, Daisy Mae. An AID is accidently left on while shipped to Earth, causing it to spend 'subjective millenia' in a state of sensory/information deprivation. This AID is then hooled up, in the early stages of the Posleen invasion, to the USS Des Moines, CA 134. Desperate for an identity, the AID downloads all available information on the ship, and recreates itself as 'Daisy Mae.' Then she spreads the nanites the AIDs apparently run on throughout the ship, effectively making it her body. Eventually, she clones herself a human avatar. The whole thing is very Andromeda. Later, when she was sank, she kept the avatar, the captain and the ship's cat alive by sort of using her nanites as improvised Hiberzine. This had the side effect of giving the cat a human-level intellect. It is strongly implied that the captain and the ship are lovers.

So, Daisy Mae is one of the only truly clean AIDs, having long ago dealt with the Darhel backdoors in her system. So she is approached and eventually they get 7 sohon masters to remake her into a spaceship. First of the next generation of Earth warships. They start with the overpowered ship the Darhel never let the Fleet build, lest the humans become too powerful. Then one mentat has an idea for a weapon, that involves a large dome that looks like a breast. Some joking later, and the Des Moines is turned into a golden naked woman, with retractable angel wings. 2 Quantum Tangler weapons in the chest, additional power generators make the curved hips, a fighter bay between her legs...

Just...why? Not that I don't usually love novel starship designs, but maybe not ships as conceived by Shroomy?
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

Post by KhorneFlakes »

HOLY SHIT. You serious? Because it sounds like this author is a mouthpiece for Shroom.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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Ahriman238 wrote:Regarding the gun, I calc impact energy at roughly 3.5 gigajoules. MkShep says 500 megajoules and TimC says 1700 mj. I'm not sure it matters that much, except as a reflection of what it takes to penetrate Posleen ship armor. Despite having impressive accuracy, the SheVa turret can only turn so quickly, so it can't track and engage fast-moving aircraft. For the SheVa to be much of an issue in vs. debates, the enemy must have ships that A.) more or less hang around there, or move rather slowly and B.) are somewhat vulnerable to nuclear detonations. Maybe they could take the Independance Day aliens without their shields. Then again, maybe not.
For the higher-velocity round options (say, 4-5 km/s and up), they're also a threat to orbiting spaceships that don't have an easy ability to fire up engines and maneuver to avoid something coming at them on a few minutes' warning, which includes a LOT of STL starships (say, the Lizards from Worldwar). Any spaceship built out of 'mundane' materials such as steel will be in trouble from SheVa round hits- something like the battlestar Galactica would not enjoy taking one, for instance.

The maximum ceiling at which the use of this kind of supergun is significant varies: a 5 km/s round probably has the ability to reach low earth orbit, but it's moving pretty slow by the time it gets up there, and eventually it will coast to a stop and come plummeting back to Earth. We're talking "very high suborbital trajectory" here, not stable orbits.

So a shell like that would have to be fired minutes in advance, while the orbiting ship is well below the horizon, and if their radar or satellite warning systems see it coming they may be able to sidestep. On the bright side, the enemy ship will smack into it at orbital velocity, so it will probably do more kinetic damage than it would fired at a groundside target... although if you're relying on kinetic penetration and not just a proximity-fuzed nuke, you're in trouble. The odds are good that the side of the SheVa round will impact the target instead of the tip, after all.

At the highest velocities (~10 km/s), the time required for rounds to climb to low planetary orbit decreases, and the rounds can physically reach higher altitudes (several hundred kilometers, maybe even escape velocity). But at some point they're just so damn slow after climbing out of the atmosphere that the enemy has all the time in the world to evade- fire a SheVa round at a target in geosynchronous orbit, and if it has any maneuvering capability at all it will sidestep, because the round will take hours to get there, giving people plenty of time to warm up a fusion rocket or something.

This surface-to-space engagement capability isn't mentioned much in the series, but it's real.

The grav cannon of the planetary defense centers would of course utterly devastate any orbiting starship that isn't immune to nuclear-level firepower.
We have to, if only to keep my sanity a little better. Because despite the SheVas all being decomissioned after the Posleen War, 60 years later we've moved up to SheVa Mk VII. I wish I was joking.
Well, the 'modernized' SheVas of that era may be very different units- say, a more sanely heavy tank (in the 500-1000 ton weight class, which is actually fairly possible if anyone wanted to build one in real life), powered by a more compact power source, and armed with a GalTech weapon. Or an "advanced Earth tech" weapon such as a railgun.

It would probably still get called a SheVa for sentimental reasons.

Ahriman238 wrote:Alright, I'm just about finished with Eye, and I've read the first half or so of Cally's War. Couple of things I want to get off my chest.

First, the spin-off books seem to take place 50-60 years after the main quartet. Ok, that's fine. Having time pass is a great way to add some depth to your story, introduce new characters... except that they're all the same fucking characters. Ok. I get that they have rejuv. I get that humanity is a lot smaller now, but seriously? So Jimmy just happens to run into his old commander's daughter, who is working with another old comrade of his?
In this case it's not entirely a coincidence. Jimmy is, not surprisingly for someone who's still in the military this long and basically competent, working in one of the most important military bases in the system. Callie is sent specifically to this base because of someone else who is also in there for logical reasons. That they run into each other is thus less of a contrivance than it would be otherwise.
Also, the Darhel are still running the show. Nobody can lift off spaceships without their allowing it, because of AID backdoors, and anyone making trouble for the Darhel gets iced by one of their many human assasins. Plus they vansh a colony ship every so often for population control. Besides the Bane Sidhe, there is no effective resistance, and even IRON MIKE has learned not to ask too many questions.
Go figure- their plan was actually reasonably smart under the circumstances, and worked almost as they wanted. They always had the high ground of controlling humanity's ability to go into space and defend itself from spaceborne threats, since we can't build our own FTL drives or giant fuckoff super-mass drivers without GalTech support.
Also, according to Herr Bigshot Feldmarshel, 30% of his people are Jewish, mostly survivors from the destruction of Jerusalem. I can buy refugees from the Mid East going to Europe, and enlisting to fight the Posleen. But getting an Israeli into SS uniform? I call bullshit. I can buy the grav-gun as long as I look at the conservative numbers. I can accept the SheVa, if only for the sake of good yarn (and the tank was this big) but this smashed through my suspension of disbelief like a hurricane through tissue paper.
It involves Tom Kratman. Tom Kratman is a Nazi, and is probably the best surviving illustration of why the Nazis lost World War Two. Specifically, they were idiots, most of their plans were actually idiotic once you took a step back and stopped drinking the Kool-Aid, and they were too obsessed with fanboyism and penis compensation to notice the holes in their own bad plans.

Of course it doesn't make any sense and is grim death on your suspension of disbelief.
Just...why? Not that I don't usually love novel starship designs, but maybe not ships as conceived by Shroomy?
Indeed. I liked Daisy better when she was just, well, CA-134 USS Des Moines. That was just "ships have souls," not... bizarreness.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

The 'battle ghestalts' are an interesting idea in the Eye of the STorm series, as I recall the USS Lexington's AI-image called itself the 'Blue Ghost'.

BTW, they actually explained where they got the term 'mentat' in the first book. When they had the original scifi author/military strategist think tank, they ran across the sohon masters. The Indowy concept does not, however, translate easily into our language, so they DELIBERATELY chose 'mentat' as the word we would use for 'someone who uses his brain to do insane impossibilities'.

But yeah, the Daisy Mae is not my favorite character in the series.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

Post by Simon_Jester »

I liked her well enough as an oceangoing cruiser because I feel a certain sentimental attachment to the idea that ships have souls, as it were.

But, again, things just got ridiculous later on. I think the fundamental error in the treatment of Des Moines was that Ringo and/or Kratman, probably mostly Ringo, made her too human. The author hopefully tried, but definitely failed, to write the mindset of a large implement of destruction as something nonhuman, more or less than human in scale and scope- possibly both. So instead you wind up with a writ-large steel bimbo. Not good.

So "a ship is like a woman" stops being a (screwy, somewhat paternalistic/misogynistic) analogy and becomes a (screwy, paternalistic/misogynistic) literal truth. This is not good for characterization.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

Post by Ahriman238 »

KhorneFlakes wrote:HOLY SHIT. You serious? Because it sounds like this author is a mouthpiece for Shroom.
I am unfortunatly, dead serious. That's what they get. Daisy Mae called it (the hangar) a "better way to welcome the boys home."
simon wrote:In this case it's not entirely a coincidence. Jimmy is, not surprisingly for someone who's still in the military this long and basically competent, working in one of the most important military bases in the system. Callie is sent specifically to this base because of someone else who is also in there for logical reasons. That they run into each other is thus less of a contrivance than it would be otherwise.
Correction, Jimmy is infilitrating the base as a junior officer for a molehunt. Cally is stealing the identity of a living officer so she can infiltrate the office. Together, they fight crime.
CaptainChewbacca wrote:The 'battle ghestalts' are an interesting idea in the Eye of the STorm series, as I recall the USS Lexington's AI-image called itself the 'Blue Ghost'.

BTW, they actually explained where they got the term 'mentat' in the first book. When they had the original scifi author/military strategist think tank, they ran across the sohon masters. The Indowy concept does not, however, translate easily into our language, so they DELIBERATELY chose 'mentat' as the word we would use for 'someone who uses his brain to do insane impossibilities'.

But yeah, the Daisy Mae is not my favorite character in the series.
I don't remember that from the first book, but I'll take your word for it. And yes, the mentats can use sohon to duplicate the creation of Daisy Mae leading to numerous 'Daisies' or Rommy-style ship AIs.
Simon_Jester wrote:I liked her well enough as an oceangoing cruiser because I feel a certain sentimental attachment to the idea that ships have souls, as it were.

But, again, things just got ridiculous later on. I think the fundamental error in the treatment of Des Moines was that Ringo and/or Kratman, probably mostly Ringo, made her too human. The author hopefully tried, but definitely failed, to write the mindset of a large implement of destruction as something nonhuman, more or less than human in scale and scope- possibly both. So instead you wind up with a writ-large steel bimbo. Not good.

So "a ship is like a woman" stops being a (screwy, somewhat paternalistic/misogynistic) analogy and becomes a (screwy, paternalistic/misogynistic) literal truth. This is not good for characterization.
Oh, I see. She was in Yellow Eyes. That makes a certain amount of sense. I never read that book, so the first time I heard of Daisy Mae was when this book explained about her, the captain and the goddamn cat. Not the best intro. I am now going to blithely assume that it all makes sense in context. And probably never read the book.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

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It was big, that was for sure. Eight hundred meters long and massing maybe a hundred and fifty thousand tons. Supermonitors were bigger but they were never designed to enter atmosphere. It had to be pretty much the biggest ship ever to come near landing on a planet. It's hull was glittering gold, sinuous and . . .distinctly womanly. Warp nacelles jutted like wings , upward on either side, and surmounting it were a rack of grav drivers and laser cannons. More were forward of the nacelles and even on the underside although it was clearly designed for landings.
Appearance and size of the new Des Moines. 800 meters in length, compared to 4,000 meter supermonitors. Ship is a gold woman, naked woman with retractable angel wings. The Quantum Tanglers are in the breasts (and the reason for the whole shape) while the mass drivers and laser weapons are on the shoulders.
State of the art CIC, stealth systems, heavy duty close-in-defense system, armored to the max, missiles that were faster than any current . . . It even had two normal space engines based on antimatter ejection systems that would give it more speed and maneuverablility than a current destroyer.
Some of the advantages Daisy Mae enjoys over existing ship designs. These alone were enough to ensure the Darhel would never let the thing be built.
"Only place we could put it," Michelle said, more sturdily. "It's capable of housing nine Falcon Four Space Fighters and two Banshee shuttles. Or a similar mix to size as needed."
New models of Falcons, too. Daisy Mae carries 9, plus two shuttles as standard. In a bay roughly the location of a womb with an entrance… you know where the entrance is.
"Cloaked ships?" Jeff asked.

"None apparent," the TACO replied. "But we can't detect them at more than five light seconds."
Limits to Daisy Mae’s ability to detect cloaked Hedren ships.
The dreadnought was pointed more-or-less directly at the asteroid at a range of just over a million and a half kilometers. According to the mentat, the system should be able to lock within twenty degrees of forward and at a range of up to seven light seconds. They were right at the edge of range because Captain McNair did not want to be near something that was having 'random energy conversion events' going on.
Quantum Tangler range (7 light minutes) and firing arc (20 degrees any direction of straight forward.)
The space cruiser was about the size of the Des Moines before her 'upgrade' and massed about the same. Beyond that they were very different ships. The Bristol was a long cylinder bristling with plasma cannon and mass-drivers.
Cruiser from the last war. Finally learn something about their armament.
The 53,000 ton cruiser flashed white for a moment then was revealed as a wasted hulk.

"Wow," the TACO said. "Loss of ten percent of mass. On the basis of visual . . ."

"We just stripped off about half the hull and most of the guns," McNair said. "A couple more hits and she'd be beyond dead in space. I'd hate to be onboard when this thing hit. And the range, especially since once you get a lock it tracks, is frightening. Right. Send a message to the nearest com-sat that we have suspended exercise and are returning to Luna. No data about this weapon is to go on the net without my approval."
Effect of Quantum Tanglers on above space cruiser, which now masses 53,000 tons. In which case, over 5 kilotons of armored material is disintegrated.
If there was a superdreadnought near enough they'd shoot the planetoid with their big-ass mass driver. Which had it's good and bad parts. The good part was that the destroyer sized chunk of metal would go most of the way through the Globe and then let loose enough antimatter to make the local area a slice of hell.

The bad news was that those damned Posleen ships were tough. So about a half to a third of them would survive. And then it was like kicking a fucking wasp nest. They'd come swarming out of that blast of antimatter, which by rights should have blown them to smithereens, and swarm over the super-dreadnought like hornets.
Supermonitors firing ‘destroyer-sized’ projectiles. That must hurt. Posleen globes stand up well enough to the impact that I’m starting to think they might do okay against Star Wars again.
The bombardment ship GFS Mound had rarely been used in the War. Even the task force that relieved earth hadn't needed its services. One of the first Posleen planets that had been retaken had received its attention. The Posleen had not enjoyed the experience and the Hedren were about to find out why.

The Mound was, in reality, nothing but a highly modified bulk freighter such as had originally been used to move forces between planets. Nearly a kilometer long and with cavernous holds the modifications involved ways to move stuff out of its holds and onto certain courses, very fast, as well as binary, tunnel and Ley-line, FTL engines. Its ship-to-ship weapons were pop-guns but it could toss out a bunch of kinetic energy weapons. They didn't go out very fast, but when you're firing in a gravity well, it doesn't really matter. Especially since it was punching out fifteen KEWs the size of a train engine every second. Secondary guns were, in the meantime, firing smaller KEWs at the rate of several thousand per second.

The KEWs really weren't much more than chunks of iron. Oh, they had tungsten fins and an internal gyroscope. But other than that they were just great big pieces of steel shaped vaguely like a dart. The rain of steel was aimed in various directions, but most of it was aimed more or less straight down at the just completed, and nearly charged, Hedren wormhole generator.
Bombardment cruiser. Let the steel rain begin. Train engine sized probably mean about 200 tons, but could easily be twice that. It almost doesn’t matter, the big ones are impressive, no doubt, but this is a ship that machine guns rods from god.
The Posleen tunnel drive was extremely useful, tactically, but enormously expensive energetically. The only really functional fuel for it was antimatter, which was both costly to make and extremely unstable. But there was no way that any ship could have enough fuel space, bunkerage, for fusion bottles to produce the same power with any reasonable range.
Converting ships to use both ley-line transport, which was much cheaper energetically, and tunnel drive meant that something had to go.

In the case of the superdreadnought Lexington IV it had been Ronnie's pride and joy: the primary mass-driver. However, the Hedren in the Daga Nine system didn't have any ships really suitable for the main-gun to engage. Would have been cute, mind you. Even their battleships would have come apart like tinker-toys. But they just needed the space.

What filled the space where the enormous mass driver had once been, its fusion bottles and capacitors, its grav drivers and magazines, was nine tunnel drives from Posleen Command Dodecahedrons, C-Decs, and a one of the largest containment vessels of antimatter ever made. Even with that much antimatter, the ship only had the range to go from the nearest star to the Daga system. Going out they'd have to find a ley-line.
Jury-rigged system on a supermonitor finally gives it what they wanted from day one, dual FTL. Tunnel drive used by Posleen is a lot more energy intensive than I’d thought.
The enormous Globe-breaking mass driver had been removed. But the Lexington had been designed to not only break Globes, but to destroy the huge swarms of lesser Posleen ships. B-decs, a C-dec surrounded by twelve Lampreys, equated nicely to one of the Hedren cruisers. A C-dec to one of the destroyers.

And the Lex was designed to take on thousands of such not a mere handful.

Arrayed along her sides were literally hundreds of lasers, each capable of destroying a Lamprey. Nearly as many heavy plasma cannons capable of gutting a C-dec. But the pride and joy were over two dozen grav-guns per side. Each of the GalTech 200mm mass-drivers accelerated a one hundred and fifty kilogram chunk of refractory heavy metal to ten percent of light-speed. The kinetic impact was equivalent to a sixteen megaton nuclear weapon.
The impacts from the Hedren meson cannons had barely caused the ship to shudder.
The Blue Ghost's first broadside nearly threw everyone off their feet.
Secondary weapons of a supermonitor. This includes several hundred laser and plasma weapons. There are also 24 grav-guns to a side, which are twice the size of the grav-cannon used in the Planetary Defense Forts, yet throw a projectile half the weight at a third the velocity. My head hurts.
"We determined a method to use bodies from Marder fighting vehicles and the suspension, drive, and tracks from Russian T-62s to create a tracked artillery system. We ended up scrapping most of the towed artillery systems, however. Chemical rounds are so . . . inefficient. These use a railgun based drive system that has significantly more range than the original 155. The system has an auto-alignment system based on the American MLRS, an auto loading system and an automated reloading system. There is a separate but similar vehicle for that. We've improved the barrel design so that it has a top rate of fire of sixteen rounds per minute and with the auto-loader and sufficient support it can maintain that all day. Moreover, by adjusting elevation and propulsive force, and thus time of flight, it can do up to nine round time on targets from a single system. Top road speed should be right at one hundred kilometers per hour. We somewhat improved the engine, transmission and track system. Among other things, the second is now automatic and the controls are similar to a Leopard tank. Oh, and we installed ground-effect drivers so that you can cross boggy terrain and for march-order movement to reduced damage to the track systems and the roads. We considered installing full anti-gravity but the reengineering requirements and training requirements were considered suboptimal. All of the vehicles, however, have similar improvements."
First work by Inodwy Etari, considered slightly odd by his fellows for his interest in human designs, and his tinkering to improve them. The standard artillery piece (besides the new mortars, obviously) of the new war. A heavily modified Marder IFV (top speed 100 kph) as a base for a railgun that generously outranges conventional howitzers. 16 rounds per minute, with enough ammo to keep the rate up all day, or 1440 rounds. Maybe they’re small but powerful rounds, or maybe RIngo forgot that the ammo can’t outmass the vehicle carrying it again. Can do a 9-round time on target all by itself.

Like every other vehicle to get this treatment, it has been converted to run on diesel. New production will use fusion. First mention of ground-effect drive, which uses magic mass lightening to make every tank and truck weigh less than a man, so they can easily drive over mud and sand without sinking in. Forget the mini-map, I think this is every commander’s wet dream.
We debated for nearly a day whether to convert all the engines to fusion-electric systems but decided against it, again for training reasons. However, all those that formerly ran on . . . 'gasoline' are now converted to diesel reducing your logistics complexity. But you will have to assure a supply of diesel for support. Future systems will be converted to fusion-electric."
Galactic fusion small enough to run a truck. All the versions of these vehicles they build later will have fusion, for now they’ve all been converted quickly and easily by the indowy, to diesel.
Muehlenkampf, for all his experience of military vehicles, was not sure what he was looking at. The base may have been the Russian T-62 again. Many of them were used by forces in the Vienna pocket, mostly those who had survived the debacles in Eastern Europe. They may have ended up in the valley.

The upper, however, looked more like a bastardized Amerian M-1 with the exception of the gun, the barrel of which was thick and short.

"The round fired is actually a high-velocity missile," Etari said, climbing up on the tank. "It tracks on Hedren heavy armor so it is 'fire and forget.' When it hits, it uses a system similar to the Posleen heavy-armor penetrator, a smart bot that finds the weakest point in the Hedren armor and drill an anti-matter breaching charge into the interior. There are various countermeasures, some of which the Hedren use, but there are counters for the counters and so-forth and so-on. But this is your primary anti-armor system. We're leaving the naming to you.
The Hedren have a sort of flying SheVa, except bigger and meaner. This is the so-far nameless vehicle fielded as a counter. Though it should work just fine on other tanks as well.
"Primary tanks will be modified Leopards, tentatively designated Leopard Vs. Slightly more robust drive train, more or less the same speed, heavy rail gun based on the Posleen designs but with the same firing system and lay-out as the Leopard III. Improved communication and ground-effect drive for march-order movement. Sights work in thermal imagery and 'cloaking reveal.' The latter is not perfect, but as good as anything that is out there. Secondary guns 3 and 5mm rail guns.
Leopard V tanks. 9mm railgun for primary armament, 5mm as a commander’s pintle weapon and 3mm as additional secondaries, ground effect drive and sights that see through the cloaking technology the Hedren all use on the battlefield.
"Primary infantry fighting vehicles will be a modified Marder, improved lay-out, improved communications and tracking system, improved drive train including enough speed to keep up with the Leopards while in track mode and, of course, ground-effect drive. Primary weapons system is a 5mm rail gun, secondary is a smaller version of the smart-bot gun. Much the same sight system as the Leopard.
It’s a Marder with the new weapons and ground effect drive. Some tweaks to improve this and that, and all the all-important sights that actually see the enemy, but it’s basically a Marder.
"Primary heavy support vehicle is based on the Marder fighting vehicle. Armored against shrapnel and light weapons rounds as well as mines. Sealed, as are all the other systems, in case the Hedren use poison gas or nuclear weapons. Ground-effect drive. Primary light wheeled vehicle is a Mercedes design with same modifications. Light scout vehicles are designed around those with the 5mm rail gun. Heavy scout vehicles are based on the Marder, again. All vehicles are equipped with blue-force trackers and sub-space communications systems that are at least hard to intercept or jam. And all are, of course, cloaked."
And the remaining vehicles. More than 70% of which are based on the Marder. I suppose there’s something to be said for interchangeable parts, at least. And it makes a lot of sense, since the first vehicles are those salvaged and rebuilt from the SS vehicle graveyard. Oh yes, and all of the vehicles above can turn invisible and can be buttoned down completely air tight for a full day.
Etari raised a small wand and pointed it at the Leopard which abruptly faded from view.
"The system is not the same as the one the Hedren and Himmit use," Etari said, dismissively. "I found their system to have . . .flaws. They use a projection field that warps light around the cloaked device. Simple enough, but not exactly . . .robust. A strong enough hit, even one that does not take out the vehicle, can disrupt the projector. And the Hedren design is much less effective than the Himmit. There is a noticeable warping if you are looking closely enough."

"And this?" Muehlenkampf said, walking over carefully and reaching out. Yes, the Leopard was still there. He could see that it, too, distorted the background slightly but it was very much as if the entire tank was transparent. He hoped the crew would not be viewable sitting in their seats. It would be humorous but not exactly stealthy.

"Actually, humans were on the cusp of it during the Posleen War," Etari said. "But they hadn't put the pieces together. One group was working on biochemical transistor design, another on a thinner, flatter projection system, another on the base theory of a cloaking system and the last an actual produced paint used for holographic art primarily on personal wheeled vehicles."

"So this is a hologram?" the Generalmajor asked.

"Not at all," Etari said, thumbing off the cloak. "The vehicle is covered in a dual layer paint. The outer layer of paint is from the thinner, flatter projection system, a paint that lays down plasma reactor nodes, very small bits of material that fluoresce in a particular frequency when energized. The inner layer is a biochemical processor. Each of the plasma reactor nodes binds to the processor at a particular point. The overall sheet acts as the computer, to put it in terms you understand. When the paint is dried the vehicle is run through a laser designation system that tells the processor which nodes are directly opposite each other. One node picks up a signal from reflectance and transmits it to its polar opposite which then energizes . . ."

"Making a picture of what is behind the vehicle," Muehlenkampf said, nodding. "I suppose for you this is child's play."

"Sometimes the simplest way is the best," Etari said. "Short of being hit by a large scale plasma burst, the paint is very redundant. And if it gets scratched, all you have is a bit of the base, which is a mottled green-brown, in view. Repainting requires a facility but it is easy enough. It creates a bit of a flicker when in movement, but is quite effective when still. And in movement, the secondary effects of the vehicle are, after all, noticeable."

"Invisible units," Muehlenkampf said. "Very good."

"And there is an interesting item to it," the Kobold said. "Ask me."

"What is the interesting item?" Muehlenkampf said, trying not to growl.

"The technology is not the sort the Hedren are used to facing," Etari said. "Their counter-cloak technology is designed to detect cloaking fields. This, General, is not a cloaking field."
The active camouflage used by all the new vehicles, and some of it’s advantages over traditional cloaking devices. So now we have invisible tanks and other vehicles, that can’t get stuck in the mud and are armed with railguns.
The M84 was slewed up and to the right at nothing Keren could see. But he wasn't going to be graded as killed so he pulled the commander's cupola down and strapped himself into his seat. What the hell. The vision blocks were wide plasma screens. He could see nearly as well down here as up there.
Oh, and like the ACS, none of these vehicles have easily-smashed windows, but armored plates with advanced camera pickups. The inside is a screen.
The R-28 Vehicle Crewman Rail-System Submachinegun had what he felt was a pleasant similarity in appearance to the WWII Schmeisser machine-pistol. The difference being that its long, thin, ribbed magazine carried two-hundred rounds of 1mm mini-flechettes and that it could dump them all out in under a second.
Oh yeah, and now all the infantry get railguns. This particular 1mm model is meant for vehicle crews, 200 rounds per seond, but only a 200 round mag.
"Actually, it's not," Keren said, looking at the device carefully. "I've used a converted rail gun and this is different. I'd say it's way better designed for humans to use."

The weapon was almost a sketch of a gun. The shoulder-stock was collapsible and looked flimsy. Keren suspected it was stronger than steel. The pistol-grip and trigger housing were comfortable but lightly built. The barrel was shorter than a Posleen railgun but had the same odd wideness on the horizontal access, a function of the magnetic accelerators. Sights were elevated and included optics that gave at least four power magnification. He suspected there was a way to dial that up. There was a dot reticle for fast firing. The really intimidating part was the magazine well, which looked about the size of a Barrett's. The gun, by itself, weighed not much more than an M-16 and was a touch shorter. With the magazine he wasn't going to guess the weight.
Appearance of standard infantry railgun, which for some reason gets called a grav rifle a couple pages later. Scope gives at least 4x magnification.
"M264 grav rifle," Sergeant Richards said, holding one of the rifles up. "The M264 uses linear magnetic acceleration to fire a three millimeter tungsten or steel flechette to a velocity of forty-three hundred meters per second. This is five times the velocity of an M-16 round and nearly six times that of the AIW. The maximum effective range is eight hundred meters while the maximum range is eight thousand two hundred and forty-six meters and it comes complete with a four position firing selector, safe, semi, burst and full rocking auto. The base design we took from the Posties but it has been significantly improved for ergonomics and so that it can, yes, be aimed using the M482 one to twelve power opto-digital firing scope . . ."
There was the M238 1mm grav pistol for the gunner and AG. A long barreled weapon with more maximum range and damage than an M-16, it was a nasty thing to fire by hand with a truly brutal recoil. The non-driver ammo bearer got the M825 combination 20mm plasma grenade launcher and railgun.

Paper manuals were distributed and with Sergeant Richards often less than helpful assistance everyone learned to field strip and reassemble their individual weapons. Particular note was taken of red comments about potential 'issues'. The M264 wasn't something to be fired if the barrel was blocked but that could be said of most weapons. Just more so in the case of a weapon with its power. The note about 'potential capacitor accidental discharge' in 'over-fire' conditions - like when you were firing as fast as you possibly could or get overrun - was not a good sign.

But the weapon could fire a round that ripped through a tank if you hit it just right and could fire four thousand rounds per minute. Both were good things. So was the five hundred round magazine with integrated battery compartment. And, yes, it was a heavy motherfucker. But adding it to the weapon actually improved balance and reduced recoil. By the end of the one hour class the experienced soldiers were field stripping their individual weapons to standard already.

It was followed by classes on the new mortar system, the M748 120mm electro-drive mortar system, which they still hadn't set eyes upon, the M635 mortar sight, the M186 Mortar Carrier for M748, preventative maintenance, track replacement methods and repair of same and on and on and on.

By the end of the first day, which didn't stop until 2200, Keren's eyes were bleeding and his head felt stuffed with straw.
Calc-fodder! 3mm railgun fires steel (or tungsten, perhaps armor-piercing?) rounds 5x as fast as an M-16. Be nice to know more than the diameter of the rounds. Like the Posleen version can ‘one-shot a Bradley and do a soft kill on an Abrams.’ 4000 rounds per minute, with 500 round mags. Scope actually goes up to 12x. 800 meter effective range, 8.2 kilometer max.

Plus 1mm railgun sidearms and a plasma grenade launcher. Amusingly, they have to teach everyone that unlike with fighting the Posleen, you can’t just flip the gun onto full auto and sweep the endless alien horde.
"Fuck this," Mangler said, reaching behind his back and pulling out what looked like a flare gun with a thick grip. "Suicide-bars! Clear!"

The anti-matter grenade launcher did not have the same connection to his goggles but he didn't care. He just aligned it with the corridor, fired all five rounds in the magazine and ducked around the corner.
Backup grenade launcher carries and fires 5 suicide bars. Remember those? Those are the adjustable anti-matter grenades that go up to 11 tons of TNT. Fair bit of firepower for infantry. I hope the arty is at least this potent.
These looked sort of like 4.2 with fins and a weird circular foot. They weren't much longer than a 4.2. But they had nearly twice the range. And you could pack nearly twice as many into the track as 120s. On the other hand, if the ammo racks took a hit, the blow-out panels had better work or everyone in the track was going to be a crispy critter.
New mortar rounds. They’re small, so the tracks can carry a lot, twice as many as before. Plus, the new mortars have twice the range of the prewar 120mm.
"Okay, troops, this is why you're really here," Cutprice boomed from the range tower. "I've been pretty interested in the anti-artillery system these things boast. I want to see how they do against our mortars. I've obtained permission for the elimination of one standard AFV from inventory . . ."
Oh, and they’ve reverse-engineered the Posleen autotarget systems for these all vehicles. Which now work on ballistic projectiles. Of course, the Hedren also have this technology.
The M576 mortar round had a small dollop of antimatter at its center and a bunch of notched wire surrounding it. With a casualty causing radius of fifty meters in contact setting, sixty on proximity, the explosion on direct contact could cut through light armor like paper.
And the puffs of smoke were getting closer. The sheer volume of fire was overloading the single anti-artillery system on the track. With 36 rounds headed its way, the system was having to hunt across the sky and the puffs came lower and lower until one finally impacted on the rear deck. The explosion was heavy enough to damage the anti-artillery gun and two of the next three rounds hit across the track, turning it into a mangled piece of very expensive metal.

"So we see the good news and the bad," Cutprice said to the subdued company. As with any company of infantry, the mortarmen had been rooting for the artillery and the gun bunnies had been rooting for the anti-artillery system. Both groups had reasons to be happy and chastized. "The good news is that the system works. The better news is that, en masse, it will probably work even better. The bad news is that even mortars can overcome it if there's enough incoming. The answer, gentlemen, is to make sure that all your M84 track-commander guns remain up, that commanders relinquish control to automatic at any incoming and that we maintain enough coverage that we can interlock fires. The system should also work against incoming anti-armor rockets. Keep it on auto unless you have an important target, commanders. Mortars, keep up your exercise. And keep in mind that the Hedren have a similar system."
Double the range, 50 meter footprint, the new mortars rock! Autotarget point defense, like the Posleen ones, can be swamped by enough incoming fire. In this case it took 3 dozen rounds.

The 5mm commander's railgun sounded like an electric chainsaw the size of a Mac truck and the coating on the rounds left a blue track of fire through the air like tracers.
5mm railgun as pintle weapon, in case you thought I was kidding.
There was a rave above his head as one of the AFV gunners fired at a target on the hilltop. Technically, that was their job. But he wasn't real happy with 9mm rail rounds going by overhead. The exercise wasn't using blanks or simunitions. The 'enemy' was dummies and some robots so they were authorized to shoot them up. But if one of those railgun rounds hit him he was going to be paste.
And 9mm tanks guns.
"You knew about this," Frederick said. "That was why you asked me about the platforms and the field generator."

"The platforms have repulsion systems on them," Harz said. "They have also been modified with a ribbon chute. We will drop very fast but the repulsion system will stop us instantaneously with contact with the ground. It has been tested. The ACS used them for resupply from orbit during the War. It will work."

"And the field generator?" Frederick asked.
I don't know much about the M-3698. It uses a set of energy fields to shield equipment or personnel in high-energy situations. Like if they know there's going to be a nuclear detonation. It won't stop the full power of one, but it will shield from secondary effects. Works on all forms of matter and most particles but once activated it only lasts for about thirty minutes. They were developed during the War but rarely used. All I can remember."
Repulsor platform for moving heavy things on ships, or occasionally to the ground when you add an M-3698 field generator, which can mostly shield a small area from a nuke, but can only stay up for less than 30 minutes. Put them together and you have a device you can slap onto an airtight tank and drop it from orbit. Won’t exactly be a fun ride, but they’ll make it to the ground intact, save for ground fire. Already used once in this book for a shock attack.



Hedren:
"Hedren primary method of hard insertion is through the matter wormhole. The unit inserted is, as was previously briefed, the equivalent of a heavy armored corps with combat supports including in-system attack craft. But that's not enough to take a planet. They're really just there to establish a bridgehead. They generally will land near a notable feature of the planet, a capital city or such, and take that as fast as possible. Then they sit on it until more forces arrive through hyper-jump."
The fun thing is, while creating a wormhole to another planet is very demanding of energy, it takes just as much to send through a Corps of men and equipment as it does to send a single gram of matter. The Corps will usually have food and ammo for a month, and sometimes a few small spacecraft. The Wormhole device however, only has a range of 60 light-years.
"The functional effect is that the Hedren attack by porting in a vast quantity of war-making forces in one jump," Rigas said. "A force functionally equivalent to a Fleet Strike Corps or even Army with supports to include local defense ships and material supplies for fifty days of combat. Generally, they will infiltrate a system with stealthed warp-ships as well. These destroy things like communication satellites and critical space installations then guard the ley-line tranfer points to prevent reinforcement and to cover follow-on forces. The other ships jump up off the planet to support ground forces and any mop-up that remains in space. It is possible, obviously, to jump more than one group. However, the power requirements are as I said vast and it is generally some time, up to an Earth month, before there is another attack."

"Weapons and TOE?" General Wesley asked.

"Many and varied," Rigas said. "Infantry is primarily armed with plasma rifles. They are generally transported by anti-grav capable armored fighting vehicles. There are, in addition, tanks better than a SheVa, which the Federation is out of as of the action on R-1496 Delta. Close support aircraft are similar to the Banshee shuttle but a bit better armored and faster. They also have plasma artillery with ranges of over a hundred kilometers. They use a method of battle similar to that once termed 'air-land battle', using their strike aircraft and mobility for deep strike and getting inside their enemy's reaction cycle.

"The most critical part is that all of their systems use a reactive camouflage system similar to that of ours, that is the Himmits. If you don't have the right vision systems, they will be quite invisible except for effects. Their ships are, also, cloaked. And shielded well enough that all but the most powerful current weapons are useless against them. Not that any of the Fleet units that encountered them could even get a lock."
Hedren tactics. Infiltrate a system with cloaked ships then send a heavy corps thorough the wormhole. The ships ambush Fleet elements in system, destroy crucial facilities and seize strategic locations, all in preparation for the real, follow-up invasion. The corps on the ground does similar things.
"Quite bad," Himmit Rigas said. "The Tyranny is a very autocratic society. The Imeg maintain a thought-police that seeks anyone who does not accept the Hedren Archons as gods. Living conditions for the majority of the Tyranny are bare subsistence level. They do not eat their enemies as the Posleen tend to, but any race they deem 'lacking utility' is destroyed utterly as a waste of resources. Anyone not being productive to the Tyranny and totally in support of the Tyranny is equally destroyed. The Indowy have already been determined to be 'lacking utility' and the Hedren are destroying them on all their conquered worlds. Equally the Tchpht. Darhel are still being classified. Himmit they will kill out of hand. Posleen have also been put on their useless list due to the difficulty with distinguishing between God-kings and normals. Humans . . . Well humans can be slaves as has been proven repeatedly in Human history. Imagine the most repressive and autocratic dictatorship in human history. Now add a theocracy and 'priests' that can read your mind and send to death camps any who do not worship the Archons."
Hedren politics and philosophy. Particularly towards aliens. Chewie already posted this, but it bears repeating that these are not nice people.
As the light panned across the contact point there was a flicker, like a reflection on a pond. He panned back and frowned as the ripple seemed to move. Whatever it was, it was big. Maybe as big as a Posleen. His finger was playing with the safety on the machine-gun, wondering if he should just fire and then figure it out. But the contact sort of looked like a Himmit. Not that you normally spotted those.

He was still wondering when a strand of monomolecular wire entered his window and removed his head.
Mono-wire used by Hedren infantry, presumably Marro. Even their infantry is cloaked.
The Hedren vehicles are not only heavily armored but incorporate a shield system which is . . .extremely robust. It may take more than one round to destroy even one of their relatively light armored vehicles. There are several types of shield penetration systems but given that we have not had a Hedren vehicle to test them against . . . you may have to decide which works best in combat."
And some fairly hefty shields to. Damn, I already like these guys just for using their technology intelligently.
"The Hedren CSUs ?" (continent siege units) he asked, apalled. "The Juggernauts?"
"Ja, yellow-shit," the NCO said, grinning. "These little toys are what we are going to ride into battle. And we are going to be taking on tanks larger faster and more powerful than Tiger IIIs. Tanks as heavily armored as space cruisers and bigger than American SheVas. Now, yellow-shits, have I made you comfortable?"
Hedren CSU (Continental siege unit) or Juggernaut. The threat of these gets played up a lot, but we never actually see one in the book. Maybe the next one, assuming it ever gets written/published.
They weren't sure where the file had come from, just that the Himmit had obtained it. It was Hedren plasma mortars, which were going to be one of their major bugaboos. The mortars had at least the range of the 120s and there were bound to be mortar to mortar counter-battery duels.

The rounds were green fire drifting across the firmament. Despite it being broad daylight they could be tracked by eye, seemingly moving in slow motion. Then they dropped and dropped finally bursting in a hemisphere of green fire that torched everything in its zone. The vegetation, which had a faint purple sheen like that of Barwhon, burst into fire in a circle beyond the explosion.

"Very pretty," Sergeant Moreland said. "Gist, think you could figure the counter fire trajectory?"

"Not sure, Sergeant," the senior gunnery computer said. "I'd need a bit more data on scale. Off-hand, I'd say they were firing from two thousand meters. If that's accurate, I could more or less determine their position. Give me any sort of compass or sight and I could do it for sure."

"Which is the one of their many weaknesses," Moreland said. "You can see the damned things. You don't have to use a fucking computer and radar to figure out where they are. There arty works the same way, only from further away. Incoming is going to be Mark-One eyeyball time. Our shit is, comparatively, invisible.
Hedren plasma mortars, and some of their disadvantages.
"This system has no shrapnel," Moreland said. "If you're not directly in that rather narrow footprint, or real close, you're golden. Now, it's a pretty serious footprint if it hits in our perimeter and anything in the footprint is, literally, crispy fried. But it's a narrow footprint compared to shrapnel. Twenty five meters versus fifty. That matters."

"It's got one benefit," Sergeant Richards said. "It's like napalm. It's very fucking scary."
Hedren mortars have a comparatively narrow footprint. On the other hand, anything inside that area tends to be most thoroughly dead. Psychological advantages to watching the big green balls of light incoming probably don’t overcome the disadvantage of seeing where they’ll come down ahead of time.
"What the hell?" Cutprice said as the M84 by his ear started firing up and to the left. It wasn't the right angle for artillery fire.
"Sir!" Specialist Riley shouted. "BFT says we're auto-engaging a Hedren probe rocket. That's their version of a . . ."
"UAV," Cutprice finished. "Command team! Four hundred meters west! Now! Now! Now!"
Hedren probe rocket for recon.
Mosovich winced as most of Alpha team was wiped out in one blast. The Hedren grenades were as bad as suicide bars.
Hedren have grenades equivalent to suicide bars. Fun.
"The ship is primarily crewed by Marro," Mosovich said, bringing up a hologram of the snake-like enemy. "Call 'em Snakes. Standard weapons are flechette shotguns for the majority of the enlisted and rail subguns for the officers and senior NCOs. They're ship's crew so they'll have some training in security but Himmit indicate that weapons for the enlisted are locked down unless they are preparing for boarders."
The Marro laid flat on its belly before him would, to a human, appear to be a massive snake or worm. Its body resembled that of a cobra but its skin was scale-less and disturbingly human looking and it had two tentacled 'arms' jutting from just below its massive head. The race fought for the Hedren Archons, occupying mostly line infantry positions. However, their premier position was masters of military intelligence and matters of science, for the Marro were always curious.
Marro, the foot soldiers who don’t have feet. We see literally less than a dozen aliens besides them, individuals that is, they work as soldiers, technicians, scientists, intelligence, pilots, and junior officers.
"Another race we may encounter is the Kotha," Mosovich said, bringing up a hologram of the massive cephalopods. "They're leaders of the Hedren forces and may be in officer positions."

"Ugly," Mueller said.

"And they can use all those tentacles to wield weapons," Mosovich noted. "Keep an eye out for these guys; they're reputed to be very bad news."
"Report."

General Etugul was a Kotha, one of the elite warriors of the Hedren Tyranny. Scion of an ancient family of generals, he was one of the Chosen, those sent to this new galaxy to bring the power and glory of the Hedren Archons to these new races.

Over seven feet tall, his blueish gray epidermis crossed with colormophs of honors, rank and family standing, the general stood upon eight dual-use tentacles. Any of them could be used as a secondary set of arms or for locomotion. Two additional tentacles were used for fine-motor skills. But any and all of the ten could wield a weapon in a pinch. Six eyes, two red and the other four purple, waved above a powerful beak. The beak was used only for eating and occasionally rending a foe limb from limb. The general spoke through two whistling jets mounted below his rapacious maw.
Kotha commanders, ship captains, and elite warriors. Can wield and fire a number of weapons simultaneously, by virtue of being giant Octopi with 2 extra tentacles.
"The main threat is going to be the Porkies," Mosovich said, bringing up a slide of the Glandri. Who did look, a bit, like porcupines. "They're primarily trained as populace controllers but they're also the Imeg's body guards. We'll know we're close to the Imeg when we hit them. They're primary weapon is a neural scrambler. At low power it's a very painful stunner. At high power it tears up neural pathways and has an effect like nerve gas. Our armor has had a layer of metal fibers added that might mitigate the effect. But don't bet on it. Getting hit with one of those things is purely gonna suck.
"The utility of all of these races is so minimal, Lord," the Glandri replied. Short, web-footed, crouching, but powerful and brutal, the quill covered Glandri were the Hedren's best at breaking a race to the service of the Archons. The neuter worked its molar filled maw for a moment in frustration. "The Indowy methods of manufacture are capable of producing advanced materials but only with enormous being-hour input. And they are so numerous, they simply crowd out other races. The Darhel, unless remodified, may be of use as managers in time. But not in any combat role. The Tchpht are premier scientists but very difficult to manage. They do not seem to respond to either damage or death. The Indowy are the same. They accept death without any response and will not even change their practices when put to great pain. And they are so numerous that it will require some sort of industrial method to eliminate them. The most flexible are the Humans. We have put a few of them to work in minor tests. They respond in a reasonable fashion to pain and the threat of death. Some are more resistant than others, however . . ."
The porcupine-like beings were spilling into a cross-corridor, laying down a withering fire with their neural whips. Mangler grabbed a stanchion and slid backwards, angling his rail-gun around the corner and firing. He wasn't blind, though. The scope on the rifle fed to his goggles and he could lay down some pretty accurate fire that way.

Glandri blood was blue. That became apparent as it splashed all over the corridor.
Glandri, giant porcupines that serve as both elite warriors and experts at breaking in new races to serve the Archons. They use neural scramblers as weapons. Interesting that the Tchpth don’t respond to fear or pain as inducement.
"What the hell are those?" Hannibal screamed. He was pumping railgun rounds into the compartment and all he was getting was bouncers. The rounds wouldn't scratch the nightmares in the room.

"Imeg," Wind shouted then blasted backwards to thump into the far bulkhead.

The two creatures in the room were nightmare, a mass of rippling black tentacles and armored bodies. The tentacles were coated in blades but that was not what was killing the team. It was the half dozen weapons each of them wielded. Expertly.

Suicide bars wouldn't detonate. Railgun rounds bounced off a hard-held shield. And still they continued to fire and slice, destroying anything that came near them.
Mueller could see the effect of the battle between the two groups. The air in the compartment was heating up as irresistable force met immovable object. He could even see the shields of the Imeg, now, glowing white-hot under the power of the dozen human adepts.
And he could see when the one on the left finally collapsed.

Railgun rounds, though, bounced off the armor of the body. He searched for weaknesses and finally found one at the juncture of the tentacles and the body. The nuckle there was tough, but it finally surrendered and the Imeg was blasted back in a green spray of ichor.

Suddenly, the railgun was ripped from his hands, turned, and slammed forward, barrel-first, into his brain.
Imeg, the thought-police of the Hedren. They also use sohon, but as it to fight rather than to build things, so both sides are still getting a feel for each other’s capabilities. The Imeg have many bladed tentacles which can also wield weapons, they also have a carapace hard enough to laugh off railgun rounds, even without their protecting themselves with their vast powers.
"No, sir," Colonel Paul said. "This is from a Fleet communique. An unknown force attacked by surprise. One courier managed to warp out. He reported that as of his system exit, all ground forces had been destroyed or surrendered and all the communications satellites were destroyed, some of them apparently from cloaked ships already in-system before the attack. The attack was two and a half months ago. We're just getting the word."
Cloaked ship sabotage of system defenses.
The Hedren fire was slow to start but brutal when it finally got into motion. Hundreds of lasers flashed upwards along with dozens of heavy meson guns. However, they were having a hard time hitting the Mound and her consorts. The air was almost literally filled with chunks of metal. Meson bolts capable of tearing apart a cruiser burst into pointless fireworks when they hit a KEW the size of a crowbar. Lasers had trouble with just the plasma and gases that were filling the sky.

Targeting the KEWs was automatic, but there were simply too many. Lasers flashed and flashed, but all it did was cut the darts in half. Small enough they would burn up from reentry heat but most of them were large enough it took quite a bit of chunking to get to that point. Missiles flashed up as well, intercepting the larger KEWs and blasting them apart. But, again, there were a lot of KEWs and only so many missiles. Well before the Mound was out of chunks of steel the Hedren anti-ship missile inventory was exhausted.
Hedren ground fire defending from the bombardment cruiser and tank drop.
The Hedren had the range. Their heavy forward meson cannons had a range of almost five light seconds. Each of the four Hedren battleships in the squadron, long cylinders bristling with secondary weapons, had two of the massive cannons forward. Capable of punching through six meters of homogenous steel, they were brutal devices of war. The ten cruisers and four destroyers each had lesser versions with the same range if not the same power.
And they used it, concentrating the fire of all thirty-six meson cannons on the Lex.
Primary weapon of Hedren warships, 2 forward mounted meson cannon, range 5 light seconds that can ‘punch through’ six meters of steel. All warships have a meson gun, some are much weaker, but they all have the same range.
The Hedren ship used primarily grasers, gamma ray frequency lasers, while the human ship mounted mass-drivers and plasma cannons. The latter two were visible while the grasers were, unfortunately, invisible. They did, however, show up on sensors. And her sensors were showing no way through the fire.
Grasers, this is a particular ship used to ferry around VIPs, so may not be the same as other warships. Then again, the grasers are likely the backup to the meson gun, which this ship may simply not have.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Ahriman238 wrote:Finally, Daisy Mae. An AID is accidently left on while shipped to Earth, causing it to spend 'subjective millenia' in a state of sensory/information deprivation. This AID is then hooled up, in the early stages of the Posleen invasion, to the USS Des Moines, CA 134. Desperate for an identity, the AID downloads all available information on the ship, and recreates itself as 'Daisy Mae.' Then she spreads the nanites the AIDs apparently run on throughout the ship, effectively making it her body. Eventually, she clones herself a human avatar. The whole thing is very Andromeda. Later, when she was sank, she kept the avatar, the captain and the ship's cat alive by sort of using her nanites as improvised Hiberzine. This had the side effect of giving the cat a human-level intellect. It is strongly implied that the captain and the ship are lovers.

So, Daisy Mae is one of the only truly clean AIDs, having long ago dealt with the Darhel backdoors in her system. So she is approached and eventually they get 7 sohon masters to remake her into a spaceship. First of the next generation of Earth warships. They start with the overpowered ship the Darhel never let the Fleet build, lest the humans become too powerful. Then one mentat has an idea for a weapon, that involves a large dome that looks like a breast. Some joking later, and the Des Moines is turned into a golden naked woman, with retractable angel wings. 2 Quantum Tangler weapons in the chest, additional power generators make the curved hips, a fighter bay between her legs...

Just...why? Not that I don't usually love novel starship designs, but maybe not ships as conceived by Shroomy?
It worked in Watch on the Rhine with those SHEVA wannabes (Brunhilde, wasn't it?) so why not do it again? That at least would explain whose idea that was...
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

Post by Simon_Jester »

Ahriman238 wrote:
simon wrote:In this case it's not entirely a coincidence. Jimmy is, not surprisingly for someone who's still in the military this long and basically competent, working in one of the most important military bases in the system. Callie is sent specifically to this base because of someone else who is also in there for logical reasons. That they run into each other is thus less of a contrivance than it would be otherwise.
Correction, Jimmy is infilitrating the base as a junior officer for a molehunt. Cally is stealing the identity of a living officer so she can infiltrate the office. Together, they fight crime.
Actually, what I said is correct- Jimmy is infiltrating the base as a junior officer because that's his job: he investigates security breaches. Cally is getting sucked into investigating the same security breach. When two people have logical reasons to chase the same thing, it's not surprising that they run into each other. Now, granted Ringo could have generated an entirely new and never before met person to take Jimmy's role in the novel, but I don't think it would have inherently strengthened the story to use a new character instead of someone who already had a personality fresh in the reader's mind.
Oh, I see. She was in Yellow Eyes. That makes a certain amount of sense. I never read that book, so the first time I heard of Daisy Mae was when this book explained about her, the captain and the goddamn cat. Not the best intro. I am now going to blithely assume that it all makes sense in context. And probably never read the book.
Well, I won't say it makes sense in context, but suffice to say that Daisy Mae was a more compelling and worthwhile character in Yellow Eyes when she was a wet-navy cruiser trundling along in support of the defense of Panama than she was in Eye of the Storm as a space cruiser shaped suspiciously like a naked chick.

Ahriman238 wrote:
It was big, that was for sure. Eight hundred meters long and massing maybe a hundred and fifty thousand tons. Supermonitors were bigger but they were never designed to enter atmosphere. It had to be pretty much the biggest ship ever to come near landing on a planet...
The space cruiser was about the size of the Des Moines before her 'upgrade' and massed about the same. Beyond that they were very different ships. The Bristol was a long cylinder bristling with plasma cannon and mass-drivers.
The 53,000 ton cruiser flashed white for a moment then was revealed as a wasted hulk.
Effect of Quantum Tanglers on above space cruiser, which now masses 53,000 tons...
Yeah, these passages don't give a very coherent sense of the mass of the ships involved. Although- "Des Moines before her upgrade..." does that mean the wet-navy ship they hoisted off the bottom of the Caribbean, or a spacegoing warship of an earlier generation built after they hoisted the wet-navy ship off the bottom of the Caribbean?

In the latter case, the description of Bristol as being about the same as Des Moines's old mass and hullform makes perfect sense, since the two ships would have been built by similar equipment with similar capabilities and missions in mind.
Supermonitors firing ‘destroyer-sized’ projectiles. That must hurt. Posleen globes stand up well enough to the impact that I’m starting to think they might do okay against Star Wars again.
I'm sure each globe could stand some gigaton-range impacts/blasts/whatever. If Star Wars firepower is persistently at the very high levels we see from high-end SDN-style calcs, though, the sustained fire capability is going to be more than they can feasibly stand.
Secondary weapons of a supermonitor. This includes several hundred laser and plasma weapons. There are also 24 grav-guns to a side, which are twice the size of the grav-cannon used in the Planetary Defense Forts, yet throw a projectile half the weight at a third the velocity. My head hurts.
Rate of fire and sustained rate of fire may be the key issue, if you want an aspirin. The PDF guns are designed to fire a single round at a single target, track onto a new target, and fire another round at it. One round will kill any target they're actually intended to fire at, and the PDF guns won't be firing new shots more than, oh... once or twice a second? So the rate of fire is comparable to a semiautomatic rifle.

Whereas the supermonitor secondaries (the grav cannon; I would call the laser and plasma weapons "tertiaries" myself)... you want those to be able to fire really fast- to engage huge numbers of targets in a very short time (with the gun mount spinning to fire on each new target quickly). You want it to be able to dump a boatload of fire into a single target, as well- remember, if something goes wrong with the supermonitor's main gun, it's probably supposed to engage a Posleen globe with that secondary battery.

On the other hand, the sheer number of targets also means that your ability to inflict casualties is statistical: it's always going to be better to disable 90% of your targets with shots fired at a rate of ten rounds per second than to disable 100% of your targets with shots fired at a rate of five rounds per second. So a quicker-firing weapon that throws lighter rounds, but tracks faster and can keep up the fire indefinitely, has a lot going for it. And that might well make the weapon big.

[finishes waving hands]
First work by Inodwy Etari, considered slightly odd by his fellows for his interest in human designs, and his tinkering to improve them. The standard artillery piece (besides the new mortars, obviously) of the new war. A heavily modified Marder IFV (top speed 100 kph) as a base for a railgun that generously outranges conventional howitzers. 16 rounds per minute, with enough ammo to keep the rate up all day, or 1440 rounds. Maybe they’re small but powerful rounds, or maybe RIngo forgot that the ammo can’t outmass the vehicle carrying it again. Can do a 9-round time on target all by itself.
The time on target capability is nothing out of the ordinary for modern self-propelled howitzer. The ammunition supply... shit. You underestimated. To keep that up "all day," you'd need 16*60*60 equals nearly sixty thousand rounds. Ringo done GOOFED.
We debated for nearly a day whether to convert all the engines to fusion-electric systems but decided against it, again for training reasons. However, all those that formerly ran on . . . 'gasoline' are now converted to diesel reducing your logistics complexity. But you will have to assure a supply of diesel for support. Future systems will be converted to fusion-electric."
Galactic fusion small enough to run a truck. All the versions of these vehicles they build later will have fusion, for now they’ve all been converted quickly and easily by the indowy, to diesel.
Diesel engines, they can do in a hurry- no Sohon skills required! Heh.
The active camouflage used by all the new vehicles, and some of it’s advantages over traditional cloaking devices. So now we have invisible tanks and other vehicles, that can’t get stuck in the mud and are armed with railguns.
Wheee!
Oh, and like the ACS, none of these vehicles have easily-smashed windows, but armored plates with advanced camera pickups. The inside is a screen.
We're already sort of trending that way in real life, I think.
Oh yeah, and now all the infantry get railguns. This particular 1mm model is meant for vehicle crews, 200 rounds per seond, but only a 200 round mag.
That is... impressively dumb. Whatever infantry training Ringo got, I'm beginning to think it didn't stick.
Interesting that the Tchpth don’t respond to fear or pain as inducement.
Think of them as arthropodal Ghandis- they're pacifists, and committed ones.
Primary weapon of Hedren warships, 2 forward mounted meson cannon, range 5 light seconds that can ‘punch through’ six meters of steel. All warships have a meson gun, some are much weaker, but they all have the same range.
Light-speed weapons will all, as a rule, have the same range in vacuum- defined by how long it takes the beam to disperse and whether or not the target can get out of the way before the beam gets there.
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Re: A bit of analysis: Posleen War

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Ahriman238 wrote:
The dreadnought was pointed more-or-less directly at the asteroid at a range of just over a million and a half kilometers. According to the mentat, the system should be able to lock within twenty degrees of forward and at a range of up to seven light seconds. They were right at the edge of range because Captain McNair did not want to be near something that was having 'random energy conversion events' going on.
Quantum Tangler range (7 light minutes) and firing arc (20 degrees any direction of straight forward.)
I think you mean 7 light seconds.
Supermonitors firing ‘destroyer-sized’ projectiles. That must hurt. Posleen globes stand up well enough to the impact that I’m starting to think they might do okay against Star Wars again.
I'm starting to think that their durability scales up non-linearly when they link up like that. Maybe the components act as some sort of ablative armor, but I imagine whatever helps hold them together might enhance their durability (more powerplants = bigger shields so to speak.)
Arrayed along her sides were literally hundreds of lasers, each capable of destroying a Lamprey. Nearly as many heavy plasma cannons capable of gutting a C-dec. But the pride and joy were over two dozen grav-guns per side. Each of the GalTech 200mm mass-drivers accelerated a one hundred and fifty kilogram chunk of refractory heavy metal to ten percent of light-speed. The kinetic impact was equivalent to a sixteen megaton nuclear weapon.
The impacts from the Hedren meson cannons had barely caused the ship to shudder.
The Blue Ghost's first broadside nearly threw everyone off their feet.
Secondary weapons of a supermonitor. This includes several hundred laser and plasma weapons. There are also 24 grav-guns to a side, which are twice the size of the grav-cannon used in the Planetary Defense Forts, yet throw a projectile half the weight at a third the velocity. My head hurts.
There's nothing wrong with that. Cutting down on performance while scaling up the size of the gun could make them much easier to produce (less miniaturization to deal with) which could make them easier/faster to make. Particularily since the original guns were overkill anyhow. I'm guessing the laser plasma weapons are somewhere in the kiloton range (double digit for the lasers, maybe triple digit for the plasma guns?)

That might suggest the mass driver was gigaton range or higher (sounds like a fricking nova cannon.)
First work by Inodwy Etari, considered slightly odd by his fellows for his interest in human designs, and his tinkering to improve them. The standard artillery piece (besides the new mortars, obviously) of the new war. A heavily modified Marder IFV (top speed 100 kph) as a base for a railgun that generously outranges conventional howitzers. 16 rounds per minute, with enough ammo to keep the rate up all day, or 1440 rounds. Maybe they’re small but powerful rounds, or maybe RIngo forgot that the ammo can’t outmass the vehicle carrying it again. Can do a 9-round time on target all by itself.

Like every other vehicle to get this treatment, it has been converted to run on diesel. New production will use fusion. First mention of ground-effect drive, which uses magic mass lightening to make every tank and truck weigh less than a man, so they can easily drive over mud and sand without sinking in. Forget the mini-map, I think this is every commander’s wet dream.
If they're using magic mass lightening tech on the vehicle, I see no reason they can't use it on the ammo to carry more. Besides the real issue isn't going to be mass so much as volume, and that tells me these are very compact rounds regardless. If it's anything like the navy's railgun, they're going to have to reduce projectile mass by about a third to compensate for the increase in velocity, even more for a ligther platform. The sheer velocity and Galtech magic can probably compensate for the rest.
Galactic fusion small enough to run a truck. All the versions of these vehicles they build later will have fusion, for now they’ve all been converted quickly and easily by the indowy, to diesel.
That suggests their pure-fusion technology is far better than our own. So why did they keep mucking about with antimatter as the big weapons fuel instead of fusion?

Leopard V tanks. 9mm railgun for primary armament, 5mm as a commander’s pintle weapon and 3mm as additional secondaries, ground effect drive and sights that see through the cloaking technology the Hedren all use on the battlefield.
This might explain why Galtech is so magical - it allows them to resurrect old designs in new super cool ways. I imagine that the fusion powered railgun navy battleships are on the distant horizon. Shaped like a woman.
The R-28 Vehicle Crewman Rail-System Submachinegun had what he felt was a pleasant similarity in appearance to the WWII Schmeisser machine-pistol. The difference being that its long, thin, ribbed magazine carried two-hundred rounds of 1mm mini-flechettes and that it could dump them all out in under a second.
Oh yeah, and now all the infantry get railguns. This particular 1mm model is meant for vehicle crews, 200 rounds per seond, but only a 200 round mag.
Depending on the performance parameters, this might not be too bad. I'm confident Ringo will find a way for a headache, though.
"M264 grav rifle," Sergeant Richards said, holding one of the rifles up. "The M264 uses linear magnetic acceleration to fire a three millimeter tungsten or steel flechette to a velocity of forty-three hundred meters per second. This is five times the velocity of an M-16 round and nearly six times that of the AIW. The maximum effective range is eight hundred meters while the maximum range is eight thousand two hundred and forty-six meters and it comes complete with a four position firing selector, safe, semi, burst and full rocking auto. The base design we took from the Posties but it has been significantly improved for ergonomics and so that it can, yes, be aimed using the M482 one to twelve power opto-digital firing scope . . ."

There was the M238 1mm grav pistol for the gunner and AG. A long barreled weapon with more maximum range and damage than an M-16, it was a nasty thing to fire by hand with a truly brutal recoil. The non-driver ammo bearer got the M825 combination 20mm plasma grenade launcher and railgun.

...

But the weapon could fire a round that ripped through a tank if you hit it just right and could fire four thousand rounds per minute. Both were good things. So was the five hundred round magazine with integrated battery compartment. And, yes, it was a heavy motherfucker. But adding it to the weapon actually improved balance and reduced recoil. By the end of the one hour class the experienced soldiers were field stripping their individual weapons to standard already.
Calc-fodder! 3mm railgun fires steel (or tungsten, perhaps armor-piercing?) rounds 5x as fast as an M-16. Be nice to know more than the diameter of the rounds. Like the Posleen version can ‘one-shot a Bradley and do a soft kill on an Abrams.’ 4000 rounds per minute, with 500 round mags. Scope actually goes up to 12x. 800 meter effective range, 8.2 kilometer max.

Plus 1mm railgun sidearms and a plasma grenade launcher. Amusingly, they have to teach everyone that unlike with fighting the Posleen, you can’t just flip the gun onto full auto and sweep the endless alien horde.
First off it depended alot on the kind of round fired for M16 muzzle velocity. I remember seeing it as low as (IIRC) 850 m/s and going as high as 950... the stated velocity goes to the low end but you could get close to 5 km/s by going with 950. 3mm is a rather large flechette, but there are several benchnarks. One is the 2-3mm Kolibri which has a .2 gram round. More probably we're looking t a comparison to the steyr ACR which fires a .66 gram, 1.5mm flechtette So assuming its roughly 2x the diameter (and if the lenght doesnt change) the mass goes up to 2 grams. I'd stick with 1 gram or less, because this weapon is going into "insane recoil" territory regardless.

the round itself is okay. If we have a 1 gram round at ~4.3 km/s, the recoil isn't going to be substnatially greater than a RL M-16 round. Probably better due to the lack of propellant. Twice that if we go with the 2 gram mass, which puts it on the benchmark of 7.62mm NATO for recoil. Call it 10-20 kj per shot. The "penetrate a tank" bit shouldnt really be read into, since you're talking more about sectional density, pressure, and all the other fun things. And if the thing is not going to vaporize on impact with a tank it has to have some fancy galtech magic to it as well (much like the man portable grav guns in earlier novels.. you know to stop air friction from vaporizing the bullet.) Personally I'd still go with "less than a gram" bullets but I'm probably not going to get that.

Now the.. interesting problem comes with the rate of fire. 4000 rpm is around 66 rounds per second. An M16 has a 700-950 RPM rate of fire. So not only has velocity increased by a factor of 5, but you can say the rate of fire has gone up by roughly a factor of five as well. The problem? there's nothing corresponding to reduce momentum. It *might* and I just say *might* be fire-able because it lacks propellant. But it's going to be uncontrollable as hell. For reference, an M14 had a rate of fire of 700-750 rpm, firing 7.62mm nato.. and is.. unmanagable. The proposed gun here would be as bad (or worse) in that regard depending on propellant issues for the M-14, to put it nicely. and I'm not sure any amout of magitech inertial damping could solve this, short of "magic forcefields hold the gun in your arms, hold your entire body rigid and anchored to the ground" sort of compensation, or "force fields magically transfer momentum from gun to ground without person in the way." Either of which I don't like because they have insane implications for tech usage (either force fields or flight, or more simply why they bother with troops to begin with since we're halfway to a Culture Drone at this point.)

Possible reconciliation is that 4000 rpm is the cylic rate, and not the actual rate of fire it is used at (actual rate of fire could be considerably less.. say an OOM or two less due to various factors. RL rifles have "effective" rates of fire lowre than cyclic, even assault rifles.)

Another possibility it is meant to convey some sort of "hyperburst" mode (basically the gun has a rate of fire so high that the first couple shots go out of the barrel before recoil is an issue - this is supposed to be the next big thing for the military small arms I've heard.) but I suspect Ringo won't cooperate that nicely.

Third possibility is that the rOF applies to times or modes when accuracy simply doesn't matter. That is still counting on the weapon simply not sending a guy flying, so they may be required to be braced or lying prone to fire it this way.

Overall it's less insane than the grav gun was, idea wise, but its still pretty freaking silly with regards to the rate of fire, unless the intent was to give everyone machine guns.

The M576 mortar round had a small dollop of antimatter at its center and a bunch of notched wire surrounding it. With a casualty causing radius of fifty meters in contact setting, sixty on proximity, the explosion on direct contact could cut through light armor like paper.
And the puffs of smoke were getting closer. The sheer volume of fire was overloading the single anti-artillery system on the track. With 36 rounds headed its way, the system was having to hunt across the sky and the puffs came lower and lower until one finally impacted on the rear deck. The explosion was heavy enough to damage the anti-artillery gun and two of the next three rounds hit across the track, turning it into a mangled piece of very expensive metal.
I'm trying to think of a way of using antimatter as a propellant for frag rounds. Unless that's super dooper metal (and if its using notched wire... not likely?) and the frag only partly vaporizes for propulsion.. or involves antimatter powered magic forcefields to do the propelling.. i see problems.
The 5mm commander's railgun sounded like an electric chainsaw the size of a Mac truck and the coating on the rounds left a blue track of fire through the air like tracers.
5mm railgun as pintle weapon, in case you thought I was kidding.
well they keep the magic frictionless coating at least.


Maybe get onto the other stuff later.
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