nBSG ep 4.15: "No Exit" Talkback (SPOILERS)

[Zac Naloen]

Like Vympel I don't see how they could have reveiled this information in a coherent manner over the course of the season.

It would have been hints left here and there and we'd have people complaining that they aren't answering anything just raising more questions, like they have been for the last 2 years.

[CaptJodan]

I would also guess that there's a cost factor associated here. Bringing in Dean Stockwell or the actress who plays Ellen every episode or every other episode to have a small bit of exposition in the middle of a main storyline probably cost more than having them/him do one episode and then move on with the plot from there (as I'm sure there's more of both to come).

Ellen and John's monologue could absolutely have helped episodes like Starbuck-crazy-on-Demetrius, but at that point we knew nothing of Earth, and knowing of Earth and it's connection was pretty vital to what they were openly talking about. And since the discovery of Earth, I don't feel there's been a single padded, non-relevant episode that would have allowed for as much information as she had to talk about to come out.

And I find it humorous that people are claiming that it was lazy writing on the part of the creators. This ignores that Moore originally shot it to have Ellen's part in the middle of the mutiny, and it ignores his own admission that they worked very hard to try and tie up all the threads that he himself admits would have been a lot easier to do had he had a plan in the beginning (talks about a large staff going through the history of BSG). Maybe Moore missed a few things, and maybe this wasn't the most effective way to give us the information (I'd certainly grant the latter), but I wouldn't call it "lazy writing" by any stretch.

[Anguirus]

Because as we all know, it's far more important to have the entire mythology of your show worked out before the first film rolls so that the last few episodes don't have that much exposition than to write a character-driven, compelling series that people love.

Consider the timing of everything here. RDM had to write and shoot a miniseries that had to stand more or less on its own that offered up enough tempting plot threads to carry through to a series. It was successful enough so that they went directly to series afterward and were writing new episodes. Of course the entire history of the Cylons wasn't in place yet. That's not "lazy" writing, it's television writing, and it's a lot easier to nitpick on the Internet than it is to actually do. The writing staff has had to conceive and execute a very ambitious arc at the same time.

Compare to Babylon 5. JMS wrote the thing on spec, and he always had a five-year plan for the series (and a planned spin-off using most of the same actors). However, as soon as he started shooting, practical considerations necessitated huge changes to the arc he'd originally written, and throughout the show he was limited by actors leaving, budget, etc. B5 is still probably my favorite all-time sci-fi show, and some of the changes forced on him actually improved his story (i.e. I like Sheridan and him + Sinclair worked better than one Uberhero). I'd say that BSG is nearly as good despite having less of the mythos worked out beforehand...not bad, no?

(Not to mention, a lot of the fun of BSG is speculating about who's a Cylon, what the Cylon agenda is, etc. That's why they were so careful about rolling out the "ok, here's what's up with those wacky toasters" episodes. After seeing the online fan response to the show, they would have had to be crazy to reveal everything long before the end. Playing up the mystery of the show has done wonders for their marketing.)

[Glom]

Surely, there must have been a fair degree of planning from the outset. They must have known what Ellen was when they introduced her.

[weemadando]

*snip - "wah wah wah you're picking on my favourite show"

So fucking what. They still fucking knew that they were on a schedule and they still chose not to address ANY of these issues prior to now, instead wasting time on a lot of inconsequential bullshit that could have been better served wrapping up the core plot so we didn't have to have such a shoddily written episode inserted into the series.

And if they didn't plot it out before hand then shame on them. So what if they didn't walk in with 4 seasons of eps pre-written, they should have at least walked in with a detail of the over-arching plot, season arcs and key episode plots. And if, even at that stage, they still had a "tell the audience everything through the power of monologue" episode that RDM is a much shittier writer than we've been led to believe.

[ZOmegaZ]

You're assuming they made the whole two thousand year sub-light trip on humanoid form. I find it far more likely that they made the bulk of the trip with their consciousness boxed in cold storage, with their ship’s systems on automatic, and only being resurrected to make repairs, course corrections or upon reaching their destination. If they were on cold storage, and the organic raw material for their new bodies properly shielded, they could have made the trip thru that stellar crap and downloaded into new bodies as soon as they reached the Algae Planet. Then put their consciousness back in cold storage and resume the trip to Kobol.

That would also make relativistic flight much more plausible. It's a lot easier to accelerate a robot that can build new humans than it is to accelerate a ship actually capable of supporting the same humans, especially given the radiation shielding necessary at those speeds. Of course, given as there are apparently some supernatural events, maybe the angels just protected them.

CS Lewis once commented about his Space Trilogy that, in the first book, he had the hero travel to Mars in a spaceship which he described in great detail. In the second book, once Lewis had learned better, he just had angels carry the hero to Venus. I'm... not immediately sure how that's relevant, but it sounded like it was, and it's a good story, so I'm leaving it in the post!

[CaptJodan]

They must have known what Ellen was when they introduced her.

That would be a no. It wasn't as if, right before the episode was to be made, they figured it out, but Moore admits that he, unlike the Cylons, didn't have a plan, at least not one that involved Ellen. Ellen was chosen as the 5th because, after looking back at the series, they felt she was the one that fit their criteria the best and had the most play story wise with what they already had. Her being the final 5 came after the final 4, which also wasn't scripted from the beginning, and so on back through the line.

Moore admits in this past podcast that it might have been easier in certain ways for him to have the arc all planned out from the beginning, but he freely admits he's just making it up as he goes along. As far as I know, the only one who had a master plan (which needed tweaking from those real world concerns) and carried it to competition was JMS (unless there's another show like it to which I'm unfamiliar), and he's always maintained that it was an extremely hard and draining thing to do.

[Themightytom]

We got answers, but having act-of-plot-shot-in-the-head-now-remembers-everything-boy and monologuing-super-villain doing exposition for an hour felt a bit tedious and stupid. Really? Is that the best way that you could figure out to answer our questions? Just have two actors effectively break the fourth wall and detail your cliff notes on Cylon history?

Poor writing. But at least we got answers.

This late in the game, you HAVE to give us the cliff notes, and the only way to write it better would have been having it laid down since the beginning, which wouldn't neccesarily have been "better" writing

It seems like babylon 5 is being used to calibrate the "Writer Expertise Scale" nowadays, can I just remind people that Arc Plots aren't Automatically good ones? Dragonball Z for example was written beforehand, that doesn't make it particularly well written or compelling, Doctor Who sagas are often fully written, and if you look at the latest "Arc" wel... the finale was a little silly despite being the culmination of all kinds of "arc elements."

The problem with having a story arc is the need for continual escalation to a high point and then where do you go from there? To Season 5 of babylon 5 which was arguably the worst. RDM is trying to avoid that here for one thing, deciding, "Lets end on a high note" rather than create a "Real" arc and extend the series to no purpose. Other Arc Escalation clusterfucs, (Arclefucks) include lost, where each season they tried to do a continuing series of arcs but wrote themselves into a corner, or Farscape, where the show makes NO SENSE if you don't watch it regularly.

Planning isn't a bad idea but its jsut as limiting as it is beneficial. yes we woul ahve had a more coherent story regarding the Cylon back story, but at the same time we may have lost elements like the Ellen and Tigh love story (Which will be awkward when Ellen finds out the man she loves is having a kid with er... his daughter... and in Grecian tradition he will probably find out she was doing the nasty with Cavil, that really will be a "Twist."

We also might have lost the whole Chief/ Boomer- Cally- and- now- probably- either- Tory- or- boomer- again progression o relationships.

Even if the Cylon plot thread hadn't been tied up so efectively, and given that it still could fall flat, the lack of planning actually lended this series to a changing dynamic that worked for it, sure there is the occasional need to hemmorage plot exposition and there is the occasional nonsensical lull while episode after episode fails badly (Second have of season three anyone?) but that lets the writers see what works and what doesn't and provides just as much opportunity or entertainment. babylon 5 was "Consistently Good" so much so that I STILL avhen't felt any esire to finish season 5, because it falls short and theres no real reason. JMS failed at least two spinoffs because they couldn't be "Consistently good" in spite of Arc plots, in fact, part of the turn off was the formulaic nature of JMS arc plots. Legend of the Rangers was an eye rolling "ANOTHER ANCIENT ENEMY?" experience.

The shifting plot priorities you get when you don't plan ahead can be just as effective as a planned out uber-cohesive story line.

[Glom]

Well that's not something I wanted to know. Now I remember why I have uncharacteristically avoided behind the scenes stuff. It makes the series so much more enjoyable to watch believing the series was being guided somewhere. If they're making shit up episode by episode, it undermines the significance of the revelations. When we discover the truth of Starbuck, I want to be able to rewatch the scene when she finds her corpse of Earth and think, "Now I know what's behind that." If they didn't know the deal with Starbuck then, there is nothing behind it. The revelation is nothing more than a post hoc explanation.

Did the soliloquy of the Guardians' hybrid actually contains hints of what was happening? Or was it just a sparkling bit of poetry that the writers are now trying to fit stories around?

[Johonebesus]

Why do so many arguments devolve into an all or nothing fuss? Yes, having the entire epic completely plotted out would not have necessarily made the show better. But there seems to be a general consensus that going on and on about the Cylon Plan only to reveal that there never was much of a plan was a pretty big let down. At least twice they were able to infiltrate the fleet and then get their agents out, so why didn't hey go ahead and attack the fleet? Because at that point we were lead to believe they had a grand plan and were toying with the fleet for their own purposes. He has stated emphatically that there will be no ships of lights, yet it looks like there will have to be something like that to explain the Cylon God and the miraculous events. I don't have a problem with info dumps. But I think that one can make a case that the series would have been tighter and less confusing and frustrating if he had started out with an idea of what the Cylons were and what they were up to. He could have still changed anything he wanted to along the way, but at least we wouldn't have so many dangling plot points and, too often, the sense that he is pulling stuff out of his ass to explain things he set up before with no idea of how to resolve them.

Did the soliloquy of the Guardians' hybrid actually contains hints of what was happening? Or was it just a sparkling bit of poetry that the writers are now trying to fit stories around?

Probably the latter, it doesn't really look like Ellen is "hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." In fact, she remembered before the other four "awoke", messing the up whole prophecy.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

If they're making shit up episode by episode, it undermines the significance of the revelations. When we discover the truth of Starbuck, I want to be able to rewatch the scene when she finds her corpse of Earth and think, "Now I know what's behind that." If they didn't know the deal with Starbuck then, there is nothing behind it. The revelation is nothing more than a post hoc explanation.

And yet as explained before, that is how pretty much most television is written.

[His Divine Shadow]

Well that's not something I wanted to know. Now I remember why I have uncharacteristically avoided behind the scenes stuff. It makes the series so much more enjoyable to watch believing the series was being guided somewhere. If they're making shit up episode by episode, it undermines the significance of the revelations. When we discover the truth of Starbuck, I want to be able to rewatch the scene when she finds her corpse of Earth and think, "Now I know what's behind that." If they didn't know the deal with Starbuck then, there is nothing behind it. The revelation is nothing more than a post hoc explanation.

Did the soliloquy of the Guardians' hybrid actually contains hints of what was happening? Or was it just a sparkling bit of poetry that the writers are now trying to fit stories around?

That doesn't matter so much to me, what I do find makes the series less enjoyable are the podcasts. I really don't like it when they go and nail down stuff that could have gone either way, way to ruin the fun. Ofcourse I don't watch the podcasts but it's hard to miss them being talked about in BSG threads.

[Crown]

*snip - "wah wah wah you're picking on my favourite show"

So fucking what. They still fucking knew that they were on a schedule and they still chose not to address ANY of these issues prior to now, instead wasting time on a lot of inconsequential bullshit that could have been better served wrapping up the core plot so we didn't have to have such a shoddily written episode inserted into the series.

And if they didn't plot it out before hand then shame on them. So what if they didn't walk in with 4 seasons of eps pre-written, they should have at least walked in with a detail of the over-arching plot, season arcs and key episode plots. And if, even at that stage, they still had a "tell the audience everything through the power of monologue" episode that RDM is a much shittier writer than we've been led to believe.

What's funny is that while I agree with you on your point, I feel this is rage would have been better spent on last weeks show which was essentially ham fisted 'because we say so' writing than this episode which was more ludicrous on many levels. Don't get me wrong, I appreciated the back story, thought the acting was right on, but as a whole the story telling has just degenerated.

As an aside; Gotta love that Admiral Adama! Only 2 episodes ago he precipitated a schism in the fleet by ramming Cylon tech and Cylon personnel down their throats at gun point, but in this episode 'oh no! No Cylons and no Cylon tech on my ship!'

I give it a 4 for the acting and for finally giving us the answers (whether we like them or not). The story for me, has long ago lost it's shine.

[Glom]

Probably the latter, it doesn't really look like Ellen is "hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." In fact, she remembered before the other four "awoke", messing the up whole prophecy.

I don't think that part is messed up. The soliloquy didn't imply the Final Cylon would still be unaware when the other four awoke.

I suppose what it really comes down to is a matter of scale. As you say, we shouldn't allow this to be an all or nothing game. I've never been naive enough to think that the concept of the Final Five etc was alive and kicking way back in the mini-series. That doesn't mean that they didn't know who the Final Five were until they picked four random characters to space out in 'Crossroads'.

Just because they didn't plan it all from the start, it doesn't mean they don't plan ahead at all. Or perhaps, they may not plan much of the way the narrative moves while still knowing the story background. For example, this episode may not have been fixed from the beginning of the season (it's sound like the structure was a very late change in the creative process), but that doesn't mean that what we learnt wasn't known. They could have fixed the origin of the Cylon models long ago, but had no idea until someone sat down to writing the teleplay for episode 4x13 that this would be the way it would be revealed.

There are still many questions:
Who and what is Starbuck?
Why did Two get so freaked out on Earth when discovering the corpse?
What is the Truth of the Opera House?
We've been teased with these questions for a while now in virtuoso manner we have come to expect from this series. I'd like to believe they at least had some idea as to the answer to those questions when they started the teasing. I'm actually not bothered whether they had any idea when or how they would be answered though.

[Paradox]

I think Daniel is Starbuck's dad. Perhaps the original Daniel was able to escape with a basestar before Cavil was able to box his line, expel the final 5 to the Colonies, and corrupt the other 6. and saved Starbuck from the maelstrom, coped her with ressurection tech and sent her back to the fleet to help them find Earth.

Which means that the bodies they found on earth were Cylons only because the 5 were testing their ressurrection tech that they had to reengineer, but the actually colony was mostly Humans who mirrored the other 12 colonies by creating AI.

[Johonebesus]

Just because they didn't plan it all from the start, it doesn't mean they don't plan ahead at all. Or perhaps, they may not plan much of the way the narrative moves while still knowing the story background. For example, this episode may not have been fixed from the beginning of the season (it's sound like the structure was a very late change in the creative process), but that doesn't mean that what we learnt wasn't known. They could have fixed the origin of the Cylon models long ago, but had no idea until someone sat down to writing the teleplay for episode 4x13 that this would be the way it would be revealed.

Actually he's stated that the whole concept of the Final Five wasn't set upon until Baltar went to live on the basestar. At that point the writers had to decide whether to depict the other five that so far hadn't been seen, and they chose to make it into some big mystery. They didn't have the Cylon backstory planned out at all, even in the vaguest sense.

A good example of how this has been problematic is the episode in which Baltar was falsely accused. His "angel" was some sort Cylon agent, and she initiated the plot when Baltar disparaged god. The evidence conveniently held up just long enough to get Baltar to pray for forgiveness, and then he was exonerated and the Six disappeared. At the time it made some sense. The Cylons had Plan, with Head Six was working on the plan on her end, and they wanted Baltar maneuvered into a position of power. Now it makes no sense what so ever. What were they trying to accomplish? Did they know the evidence wouldn't hold up? If their plan was just to exterminate humanity and they could get agents on and off the fleet, why didn't they just jump in with a fleet and destroy them? This wouldn't be so confusing if Moor had figured out the Cylon's "plan" and the nature of Head Six from the start. That doesn't mean he had the plot planned to the tiniest detail, but he would have been better able to make it consistent and logical if he had the backstory outlined.

[xerex]

A good example of how this has been problematic is the episode in which Baltar was falsely accused. His "angel" was some sort Cylon agent, and she initiated the plot when Baltar disparaged god. The evidence conveniently held up just long enough to get Baltar to pray for forgiveness, and then he was exonerated and the Six disappeared. At the time it made some sense. The Cylons had Plan, with Head Six was working on the plan on her end, and they wanted Baltar maneuvered into a position of power. Now it makes no sense what so ever. What were they trying to accomplish? Did they know the evidence wouldn't hold up? If their plan was just to exterminate humanity and they could get agents on and off the fleet, why didn't they just jump in with a fleet and destroy them?

all they need to do to fix that is have Shelly Godfrey be the physical manifestation of Headsix. what was she trying to accomplish ? --to turn Baltar towards the One God.

[Anguirus]

Why do so many arguments devolve into an all or nothing fuss?

Way to win the thread, man.

I find results to be more important than intent.

instead wasting time on a lot of inconsequential bullshit

Like what? About the only plotlines that were just poorly-conceived and wound up DOA were the stuff with Lee's fiancee in season 2 and the Sagittarron stuff in season 3. This season has been very tightly written IMO.

And if, even at that stage, they still had a "tell the audience everything through the power of monologue" episode that RDM is a much shittier writer than we've been led to believe.

What monologue?

Seriously. All of the revelations that came from Ellen came organically from her conversations with Cavil and Boomer.

The revelations that came from Anders were also dialogue scenes that involved Starbuck, the other Cylons, the doctors, and included the ticking clock of Anders' deteriorating medical condition, culminating in Starbuck's decision to cut him off and try to save his life.

So not only did we get massive amounts of exposition, but we got unprecedented insight into Cylon psychology, a resurrection of the story thread of Starbuck's and Anders' relationship, a brand-new story thread about Adama and Galactica (re: Adama's being a hypocrite...of course he is! Galactica means more to him than any ship...and he promptly made the call to save her, just as Starbuck made her call), and some of the best-acted scenes of the whole series.

Sorry there wasn't a space battle. Regardless, this ep must have been a major challenge to write and in my humble opinion they pulled it off admirably.

Ellen was chosen as the 5th because, after looking back at the series, they felt she was the one that fit their criteria the best and had the most play story wise with what they already had. Her being the final 5 came after the final 4, which also wasn't scripted from the beginning, and so on back through the line.

Actually, as I remember the podcast Ellen's name came up at the same time as the other four. They weren't committed to her being the fifth, but they couldn't find another possibility that worked as well.

Of course, as early as Season 1 they were playing with the idea of Ellen being a Cylon, and it also seems like they have had the Chief in mind for awhile.

Probably the latter, it doesn't really look like Ellen is "hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." In fact, she remembered before the other four "awoke", messing the up whole prophecy.

Well, let's consider that Ellen is considered by Anders to have been the instrumental agent in the re-invention of resurrection, and she considers herself a mother to Cavil. Those are big things to answer for.

Also, it's funny just how devoted she is to the One God considering that she was only introduced to this faith by the Colonial Centurions. Was she already hungering for redemption, because of something she did on Earth?

all they need to do to fix that is have Shelly Godfrey be the physical manifestation of Headsix. what was she trying to accomplish ? --to turn Baltar towards the One God.

I am hoping we get some kind of reference to Shelley Godfrey. So far they have been pretty good at going back and explaining all kinds of stuff that they didn't have a "master plan" for at the time. (How about Cavil, all of whose actions in past episodes can now be connected to one of the Five?)

[avatarxprime]

Did the soliloquy of the Guardians' hybrid actually contains hints of what was happening? Or was it just a sparkling bit of poetry that the writers are now trying to fit stories around?

If RDM should be taken at his word about the writers' retreat that occurred between Season 3 & 4 then the Hybrid's dialogue should be composed of hints that they are following up now rather than random bits of pretty sounding poetry. Below is everything the Hybrid said and my own thoughts on how it relates to the story.

At last they've come for me. I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path, played out on a world not their own, will end soon enough.

Not sure what this one would apply to, although my best guess is that this relates to the events of Kobol and the reason the 13 tribes left. If that is what was intended then this implies that Kobol is not the original homeworld of Humanity, leaving the door open for Earth to be where everything started.

Another possible option given the most recent episode is that the "they" is not the humans, but rather the Cylons, specifically Cavil. He (they by extension of his line) rejects the One God and the path of peace. He easily qualifies under the "world not their own" bit since he is the one behind the attack on the 12 Colonies.

Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening. Struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity.

This one is pretty obvious.

And in the midst of confusion, he will find her, enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, at once unthinkable, yet inevitable.

I imagine this one deals with Tigh and Caprica-Six falling in love and producing a child that will be the future of the Cylon race.

And the fifth still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.

It's possible that this relates to Ellen's failure with Cavil. She wants redemption, but not for herself, she wants it for Cavil and that won't happen without suffering is a given.

I can see them all. The seven now six self-described machines, machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them.

I imagine this relates to the Cylon Civil War.

They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many and then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an Angel. Not an end, but a beginning.

This seems to relate to the development of the Individual in the Cylon. First shown with Boomer and Caprica-Six, then Athena and obviously starting to occur with all the Rebel Cylons. Then there is the "promised land" bit which could be about Earth or projected further into however they end the series. The bit about the "Angel" is also revelant based on the latest episode.

Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her. As my own existence comes to a close only to begin anew in ways uncertain. All this has happened before and will happen again.

This of course remains a mystery as Kara's true nature remains a mystery so we can't really ascribe anything to this just yet.

All in all the Hybrid's prophecy seems to do OK with what has happened in Season 4 so far.

[Anguirus]

Relevant: Mark Verheiden on writing BSG

[Old Plympto]

Wow. Tyrol uses flourescent dye-penetrant non-destructive test method to inspect for cracks in the structure . That's something I've done once or twice in my life. Most of the time I just use regular dye penetrant. I'm in love with the maintenance procedures on the Galactica.

[apocolypse]

As an aside; Gotta love that Admiral Adama! Only 2 episodes ago he precipitated a schism in the fleet by ramming Cylon tech and Cylon personnel down their throats at gun point, but in this episode 'oh no! No Cylons and no Cylon tech on my ship!'

I would say that this is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison though. Yes, while they are both essentially Cylon tech, tweaking and enhancing FTL drives and whatnot is less...invasive (for lack of a better word) than having Cylon bioregen tech literally growing throughout your ship. I personally can understand apprehension and perhaps even revulsion by the bastardization of it. Or, there's also the issue of Adama's pride in the Bucket, as noted earlier. The fact that the old girl needs outside help to hold it together may have initially been offensive to even contemplate.

Further, the fact that Adama has Cylons serving on the Galactica, and just finished reinstating Tyrol while planning on upgrading her FTL the same as he wanted to do to the others, kinda nullifies the last bit.


As an aside, and tying in with Plympto's statement, I also noticed that when describing aphasia they used the term "word salad". I thought it was a nice nod since that's the exact description right out of my old psych textbook.

[Crown]

I would say that this is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison though.

Not at all.

Yes, while they are both essentially Cylon tech, tweaking and enhancing FTL drives and whatnot is less...invasive (for lack of a better word) than having Cylon bioregen tech literally growing throughout your ship. I personally can understand apprehension and perhaps even revulsion by the bastardization of it. Or, there's also the issue of Adama's pride in the Bucket, as noted earlier. The fact that the old girl needs outside help to hold it together may have initially been offensive to even contemplate.

The Cylon FTL upgrades were beyond their understanding to install. We can safely say that it was also beyond their understanding to maintain and troubleshoot. Installing Cylon FTL would have made them dependent on the new alliance unless they were installed in parallel to the existing ones.

Further, the fact that Adama has Cylons serving on the Galactica, and just finished reinstating Tyrol while planning on upgrading her FTL the same as he wanted to do to the others, kinda nullifies the last bit.

The fact that he flat out forbade Tyrol from using any Cylon crew to weld the damaged bulkheads before the micro cracks were pointed out to him, and that any Cylon FTL upgrades were to be installed exclusively by "teams of 6's and 8's" kinda emphasis the point.

Wow. Tyrol uses flourescent dye-penetrant non-destructive test method to inspect for cracks in the structure . That's something I've done once or twice in my life. Most of the time I just use regular dye penetrant. I'm in love with the maintenance procedures on the Galactica.

As a Quality Engineer in a first tier Aerospace supplier, I liked that too.

[apocolypse]

Not at all.

And I would say that "yes, it is", but then we'd be arguing in circles.

The Cylon FTL upgrades were beyond their understanding to install. We can safely say that it was also beyond their understanding to maintain and troubleshoot. Installing Cylon FTL would have made them dependent on the new alliance unless they were installed in parallel to the existing ones.

Except you're still missing that FTL is one localized area of the ship, with the likely ability that it can be compartmentalized if needed. The regen tech would be placed throughout the ship, not in just one area. And again, the FTL tech, while beneficial, is not necessarily a requirement. The regen tech is, if the ship is to stay in one piece. Hell, she's not even jumpworthy at this point.

The fact that he flat out forbade Tyrol from using any Cylon crew to weld the damaged bulkheads before the micro cracks were pointed out to him, and that any Cylon FTL upgrades were to be installed exclusively by "teams of 6's and 8's" kinda emphasis the point.

Um, not really. You just stated that 6's and 8's were going to be used. They're Cylons, right? The Chief and Tigh are Cylons too, right? Therefore, "No Cylons...on my ship!" is not accurate. And the fact that he was willing to use Cylon tech to upgrade the FTL also nullifies the statement that there was to be no Cylon tech on the ship. Honestly, I'm not sure why you're trying to defend hyperbole that the show doesn't support.

[Vympel]

I forget, did Adama insist on 6's and 8's, or was that Tyrol making that call? I guess Adama has more reason to trust 6's and 8's than he does to trust 2's. Irrational, really, they're all in this together.

It'd be nice to see the population count go up when the Basestar finally becomes part of the Fleet.