Moderator: NecronLord
Which is fine, since my whole point is it can go either way.Matt Huang wrote:And in the situation outlined by the OP, the clones will be fighting real soldiers who actually do know what the fuck they're doing, and will use tactics with brutal effectiveness.
The problem therein lies in getting close to begin with, though. I've already admitted in the past that on an individual basis an Imperial Space Marine easily outmatches a clone in terms of capabilities, and that the only way the clonetroopers win is through numbers, by long range sniping, or by assistance from heavier weaponry/vehicles. Since its safe to assume the Eldar can fight the Space Marines on an even footing, the same holds true here.Black Admiral wrote: Actually, engaging a farseer in hand-to-hand would probably be the best way to negate their powers, since farseers generally aren't as physically powerful as Space Marine Librarians or Inquisitors in physical combat, and fairly obviously can't draw on their more unpleasant powers if they're trying to fend off a skilled opponent in HtH.
Well, I for one have hopefully given no indication of how the Clonies are going to fight at all. I made the scenario.Gee, you apparently didn't grasp my point. The two (The Separatists and the Eldar) aren't even remotely identical, so there is no valid reason to be claiming that the battles will occur the same (or that the clones will fight them in the same way), contrary to what seems to be the prevailing logic in this thread.
I am not forcing the Clones to fight one way or another apart from what is dictated by their aim. something roughly analogous to what they ahd to do in the films. Kill/capture the leadership, destroy the Eldar "facilities" underground. perhaps a bunch of witch engines or something that are generating a defensive field to stop the Clonies simply nuking the place.Did you even READ what I posted? The Clones are in no way going to engage the Eldar the same way they did the droids - they were pursuing a fleeing enemy fighting a rearguard action. An enemy that lacked aerial support, artillery, and heavy ground vehicles (the heaviest ground vehicle I recall were the large spider droids, and the only thing qualifying as artillery were the hailfire droids.)
This is exactly what the clonies were on Genosis to do, destroy the factories, rescue the Jedi, destroy the droid army, and stop the escaping Seperatist forces, something they failed at miserably.Simple destruction is going to make things easier for the clones (and really wasn't in the movies anyhow) The simplest thing is to use the Acclamators to bombard them, but even barring that they can attack from a standoff distance using gunship missiles, SPHA-Ts and the AT-TE mass drivers to achieve the objective.
Because I want to see how its thought the Clonies will do against the Eldar in a similar situation to Geonosis, attacking without heavy orbital cover, something that they rarely seem to get the full benefit of anyway.Why? The Acclamators are just as important a part to the Clone's ability to fight as the ground/air vehicles or weapons are. They might not use full powered quad TLs indiscriminately against enemies because a GT-range blast (much less several of them) will create widespread destrtuction that can easily encompass any forces they use over probable engagement ranges. (they could always use the SPHA-Ts in their place if they needed anyhow), but there's no possible reason they can't use the lighter guns, as I already outlined to Necronlord.
Is it bollocks deliberately one-sided, its no worse as a scenario against any foe than the situation they were in during the film. I expect the Clonies numbers, equipment, and so forth to be the same. Their tactics etc are up for debate, as are those of the Eldar.The scenario is already altered beyond what occured in the movies (as I outlined). Its deliberately one-sided to expect the clones to be exactly the same as they were in the movies and yet somehow keep things "conveniently" open ended for the Eldar. Besides which, why the fuck has noone bothered to give a more thorough breakdown of what the Eldar exactly have for those of us who don't really have any familiarity with 40K?
An act of plot.BTW, what's to prevent the Eldar from simply destrroying any "evidencec" and preventing it from falling into Republic hands, exactly?
Don't be an idiot.
No, I added it because it neatly illustrates the counterpoint to Acclamators i.e. Eldar space vessels, as being useless.never said anything about the space stuff now did I?
Strait-jacketing ? They didn't have tactical support from the Accs on geonosis, and tactics wise is pretty much a lynchpin of the debate, which I have added no constraints upon.My complaints dealt with the straitjacketing of the Clones in terms of resources and tactics
Stop bastard whining about the forces the eldar have, it isn't like nothing has been added to detail their forces.resources is hard to judge since there hasn't been very much done to clarify just WHAT forces the Eldar have at their disposal.). So stop whining already.
Not talkign about their tactics at all, not a conversation I have engaged in, I refer to your hardon for tactical use of Acclamator weaponry, which I feel ends the fight in about 30 seconds.What bullshit? I admit that they were untested troops lead by inexperienced and unfamiliar leadership whose military knowledge and tactics are questionable. Unlike everyone else, I simply fail to see why this is s upposed to be such a huge deciding factor, unless people are (ludicrously) expecting the clones to fight the Eldar in the exact same manner as they did the droids, despite the blatant differences between the two forces. Again, why should the clones be straightjacketed in certain ways and the Eldar not, since that is and has been the distinct impression I have been getting
None at all, specifically because the Clonies have fought in such a situation before, and because Acclamators end the fight unless I add Eldar heavy support in the form of giant anti-starship D-cannons or something.Yet you felt no compunctions about denying the use of the Acclamators to the clones, as an example. Even though it would technically qualify as an "advantage" to them and a disadvantage to the Eldar. (So what? It sounds as if the Eldar have advantages the clones don't.)
Are you done whining about the Clonies not doing as well as you seem to need them to without a giant starship to back em up ?Are you done throwing a tantrum yet?
Republic Commando:Hard Contact gives casualty numbers for the Battle of Geonosis.The clones took very acceptable casulaty rates. The only bodies piling up were droids. I wouldn't advance into 30 people firing assault rifles, but I am also not part of a huge army equipped with weapons that can easily hit those people while we advance
ITs a moot point anyhow, since as far as I can tell in AOTC, those particular Acclamators didn't have the quad turbolasers mounted (that I could see.) So they can only use the light laser canons anyhow.white_rabbit wrote: I am not forcing the Clones to fight one way or another apart from what is dictated by their aim. something roughly analogous to what they ahd to do in the films. Kill/capture the leadership, destroy the Eldar "facilities" underground. perhaps a bunch of witch engines or something that are generating a defensive field to stop the Clonies simply nuking the place.
Capturing the factories, I don't recall anything about destroying them. And they only failed some of the tasks (capturing the Separatists, preventing ships from escaping, etc.) They saved the Jedi, captured the planet, and defeated the droid army sent against them.This is exactly what the clonies were on Genosis to do, destroy the factories, rescue the Jedi, destroy the droid army, and stop the escaping Seperatist forces, something they failed at miserably.
Then you'd better dispose of the anti-ship SPHA-Ts as well, since firepower wise they're not that far off in terms of capability.I repeat, I ain't dictating how they are going to fight, beyond they will not be given the boring option of an invunerable, massively powerful weapons platform to hover over the battlefield and shoot stuff.
They don't need to be in orbit to use the lighter guns.Because I want to see how its thought the Clonies will do against the Eldar in a similar situation to Geonosis, attacking without heavy orbital cover, something that they rarely seem to get the full benefit of anyway.
Deal with it.
I don't mind the equipment being the same as much as the tactics.Is it bollocks deliberately one-sided, its no worse as a scenario against any foe than the situation they were in during the film. I expect the Clonies numbers, equipment, and so forth to be the same. Their tactics etc are up for debate, as are those of the Eldar.
Fine, apologies.As for the more thorough breakdown, my sincere and deep apologies for not finishing such a thing, which if you note I had already started, and promised more.
They don't have shielding that can shrug off megaton-level attacks? I thought there were vehicles in WH40K that carried scaled down capital ship weaponry. (and if thats the case then they're probably no match for the firepower an SPHa-T or gunship can carry either.)Fuck off, the simple basic fact. The Acclamators are giant, floating, invunerable weapons platforms, with defensive weaponry designed to shoot down fighters at extreme velocities. as well as dial a yield functions. Even low energy (comparably) blasts from such anti-starfighter weapons make a mockery of any viable eldar defence. an Acclamator could simply sit over each of the several exit points for eldar forces on geonosis, and gun them down as they exited.
Not knowing anything about D-cannons I'll have to take your word on that. But you do realize that even without the light guns, ,the Acclamators still have shielding they can deploy to protect those forces, right?SPHATs and LAATs can be easily destroyed by eldar offensive weaponry, the Acclamators can only be damaged through their shielding by eldar D-cannon weaponry, and even then its not going to do more than cosmetic damage to something that size.
No they wouldn't have, since the Acclamators were busy providing power to the SPHA-Ts that were in the process of shooting down the Separatist ships attempting to escape.If the Acclamators are involved, the Eldar loose, just like the Droid army might as well have committed suicide enmass if the Acclamators hadn't either refrained from firing, or shielding was in place.
Acclamators suck as warships anyhow. And as I mentioned they lack the Quad turbolasers as it is.No, I added it because it neatly illustrates the counterpoint to Acclamators i.e. Eldar space vessels, as being useless.
The Acclamators were recharging the SPHA-Ts firing on warships, given that SPHA-Ts cannot possibly mount reactors that could power them (and the ITW: AOTC book makes mention of them being recharged.) And given that, there isn't much power leftover to be using the lighter guns.Strait-jacketing ? They didn't have tactical support from the Accs on geonosis, and tactics wise is pretty much a lynchpin of the debate, which I have added no constraints upon.
Depends on the yields they are used at. Even a low megaton range yield can be a threat to their own forces. (a restriction which will apply to the other possible forms of weaponry they may use as well, including gunship missiles.) Besides which, the ability to target starfighters does not neccesarily translate into the ability to target ground vehicles or peronnel, and indiscriminate firing is a no no (for the very same reason that capital ship broadsides in the atmosphere were a no no.) Using the light laser cannons could very well require other clone forces to act as spottersNot talkign about their tactics at all, not a conversation I have engaged in, I refer to your hardon for tactical use of Acclamator weaponry, which I feel ends the fight in about 30 seconds.
Which you probably should do anyhow, given the SPHA-Ts, unless you prefer to eliminate that capability from them as well (they aren't going to be shooting down enemy starships after all. The other configurations would probably be more useful anyhow.)None at all, specifically because the Clonies have fought in such a situation before, and because Acclamators end the fight unless I add Eldar heavy support in the form of giant anti-starship D-cannons or something.
Gunship missiles and weaponry can do that just as well (so can SPHA-T bombardment.)I don't want to see how people think the Clonies do against an enemy unable to leave its premises for fear of getting annhilated by weaponry beyond their emans to repel and reply to.
What makes you think the starships weren't backing them up at Geonosis? Even disregarding the lighter guns (which can be done and not make a major difference to the clones firepower wise)Are you done whining about the Clonies not doing as well as you seem to need them to without a giant starship to back em up ?
Weird, I wonder what craft were used to engage the fleet in orbit. Acclamators fitted out for ship-ship combat ?ITs a moot point anyhow, since as far as I can tell in AOTC, those particular Acclamators didn't have the quad turbolasers mounted (that I could see.) So they can only use the light laser canons anyhow.
IIRC, ITW tells us that most of the seperatist gear got off planet, and the republic commando novel tells us the Clonies took over 50% casualties to do what they did.Capturing the factories, I don't recall anything about destroying them. And they only failed some of the tasks (capturing the Separatists, preventing ships from escaping, etc.) They saved the Jedi, captured the planet, and defeated the droid army sent against them.
They don't need to be in orbit to use the lighter guns.
Doesn't saxtons page infer that they are more powerful than the entire weapons array of a Turbolaser equipped Acclamator ?
Regardless, from an Eldar perspective I'm not too bothered about the SPHA-Ts, because unlike the Accs, the Eldar can actually make some reply.
I don't mind the equipment being the same as much as the tactics
I use the term orbital as regards to the Acclamators in any situation.
They don't have shielding that can shrug off megaton-level attacks? I thought there were vehicles in WH40K that carried scaled down capital ship weaponry. (and if thats the case then they're probably no match for the firepower an SPHa-T or gunship can carry either.)
Myself, I had kinda hoped "tactics" would be the larger portion of the debate. Although, I have to wonder if there wouldn't be similarities at least to their approach.
They are actually trained, when led by jedi, to follow their lead, i.e. formations protected by jedi, with armour.
Not knowing anything about D-cannons I'll have to take your word on that. But you do realize that even without the light guns, ,the Acclamators still have shielding they can deploy to protect those forces, right?
Eldar heavy tanks ? its doubtful they can shrug off megaton level attacks with their shielding, similarly the atmospheric fighters etc.
I don't feel as though this is exactly different to the SW gear either
Eldar Titans depend more upon agility and powerful sensor disruption gear, as do the tanks and fighters.
Imperium/chaos/orks go for armour and multiple void shields
Tyranids go for hyper-regen, agility and numbers.
No they wouldn't have, since the Acclamators were busy providing power to the SPHA-Ts that were in the process of shooting down the Separatist ships attempting to escape.....The Acclamators were recharging the SPHA-Ts firing on warships, given that SPHA-Ts cannot possibly mount reactors that could power them (and the ITW: AOTC book makes mention of them being recharged.) And given that, there isn't much power leftover to be using the lighter guns.
I did post a little on d-cannons earlier, they are Eldar weapons that employ warp-rift tech. basically a warp rift is opened up where the gun "shoots" They are used as Anti-titan guns by the Eldar, they bypass every shielding technology in the 40k universe background currently, and rip giant sections away into the warp.
deployed on either titans, grav-tanks, or IIRC semi-mobile platforms, a bit like towed artillery.
Question on the shielding, is this going to be a ray or particle shield, and do we know that the Acclamators can provide such a shield umbrella, their shielding is probably similar to other vessels of its style, and while not completely hull-hugging, certainly not extended as far beyond its hull. as it would need to be to be useful.
It would also require some sort of syncronised shield removal to permit the LAATs to fly through it, Sphats to fire through it, etc etc.
I think deployment of shields would be bad for the Clonies, tying them to a shielded area, plus its not even guaranteed as far as I know that the Accs can do such a thing.
Which you probably should do anyhow, given the SPHA-Ts, unless you prefer to eliminate that capability from them as well (they aren't going to be shooting down enemy starships after all. The other configurations would probably be more useful anyhow.)
*shrug* It looks to me then our point is moot. The Accs provide tactical sensor support and a base.
Gunship missiles and weaponry can do that just as well (so can SPHA-T bombardment.)
Those Mass-driver SPHAs might be a more useful pic. Besides, the Eldar forces I have listed already include the eldar analogues to Sphats.. i.e. heavy mobile gun platforms, as you will have read earlier, there are 25 D-cannon toting Cobras.
there's still the shielding and sensor capabilities, which will still help them.
the above has the difference of being very visible targets for eminently capable Eldar counter-fire, as well as having to contend with eldar visual and sensor spoofing tech.
As opposed to the first eldar to leave the underground facilities simply getting annihilated by a megaton rated gun of doom.
Yep, and I don't have a problem with that.
other naval warships presumbly. The Republic does have a Navy of sorts, its just not equipped with the sorts of ships we see until ROTS or the Empire era.white_rabbit wrote: Weird, I wonder what craft were used to engage the fleet in orbit. Acclamators fitted out for ship-ship combat ?
But they captured the planet , its factories, and rescued the remaining Jedi as well. And Senator Amidala. And that's really only the ground battle. And while most of the Separatist ships DID get off the planet, (about half the Techno union ships, nearly all of the Commerce Guild ships, and maybe 3/4 the core ships escaped) they ran into the blockade aruond the planet (which the Republic was, according to the novel, winning. In fact, many of the Tradefed battleships and such were deprived of Core ships, which might have left them virttually defenseless.)IIRC, ITW tells us that most of the seperatist gear got off planet, and the republic commando novel tells us the Clonies took over 50% casualties to do what they did.
Equal to or greater than the power output of the Acclamator in fact. Enough firepower ot overwhelm the shields on the Core ships (at least in the e23 watt range.).Doesn't saxtons page infer that they are more powerful than the entire weapons array of a Turbolaser equipped Acclamator ?
Unless the SPHA-Ts remain fairly close to the acclamators (which they can.) It will also depend on the range. They can only threaten the SPHA-Ts if they can get into range (and the SPHA-Ts were heavily defended in the battle, IIRC ITW correctly.)Regardless, from an Eldar perspective I'm not too bothered about the SPHA-Ts, because unlike the Accs, the Eldar can actually make some reply.
Its not even remotely the same. On the ground, line of sight limitations become more severe than in orbit. And there is still the detection issue.I use the term orbital as regards to the Acclamators in any situation.
Against an army of droids who are being influenced by jamming (which is mentioned in the novel and ITW as a problem, IIRC), and lacks any air support and almost entirely lacks heavy armor and artillery (the closest to artillery they have are some fixed anti-air laser cannons and the hailfires, whose missile range is less than a kilometer.) This again begs the quesiton of whether the Jedi (and the clones) would actually charge an enemy that has a fortified position, possesses air support and heavy vehicles and (presumably) artillery. Unless the Eldar are going to run straight at the clones like the battle droids did (which I doubt, nor would I assume that they would do, since that would be stupid of them.)Myself, I had kinda hoped "tactics" would be the larger portion of the debate. Although, I have to wonder if there wouldn't be similarities at least to their approach.
They are actually trained, when led by jedi, to follow their lead, i.e. formations protected by jedi, with armour.
They're the defending force in an entrenched position. I presume they have static installations that can have shielding or project theatre shielding for protection purposes, just as the Acclamators can.Eldar heavy tanks ? its doubtful they can shrug off megaton level attacks with their shielding, similarly the atmospheric fighters etc.
How powerful are the titans?Eldar Titans depend more upon agility and powerful sensor disruption gear, as do the tanks and fighters.
I see.Imperium/chaos/orks go for armour and multiple void shields
Tyranids go for hyper-regen, agility and numbers.
I'm assuming they're beam weapons like the SPHA-Ts, and thus would have line of sight limitations.deployed on either titans, grav-tanks, or IIRC semi-mobile platforms, a bit like towed artillery.
Shielding has been demonstrated to be "dynamic" it can be extended or projected over distances ( up to several ship lengths away) and can be redefined to encompass other targets (IE the DS2 over Endor's moon.)Question on the shielding, is this going to be a ray or particle shield, and do we know that the Acclamators can provide such a shield umbrella, their shielding is probably similar to other vessels of its style, and while not completely hull-hugging, certainly not extended as far beyond its hull. as it would need to be to be useful.
Since they coordinate activities with the Acclamators as a matter of course, I don't see it being a problem.It would also require some sort of syncronised shield removal to permit the LAATs to fly through it, Sphats to fire through it, etc etc.
They can't take territory while under shield influence and they can only attack what comes into range, but barring D-cannon assault (which I wouldn't rule out) they can almost certainly survive any bombardment.I think deployment of shields would be bad for the Clonies, tying them to a shielded area, plus its not even guaranteed as far as I know that the Accs can do such a thing.
They probably can alter the configurations as they need to, as long as there is an Acclamator handy.Those Mass-driver SPHAs might be a more useful pic. Besides, the Eldar forces I have listed already include the eldar analogues to Sphats.. i.e. heavy mobile gun platforms, as you will have read earlier, there are 25 D-cannon toting Cobras.
SPHA-Ts will qualify as "megaton rated guns o' doom" as well anyhow. Or there are kiloton-megaton ranged missiles (which gunships, properly-configured SPHA's, and possibly AT-TEs) can fire from behind the horizon. If they're close enough to be in range fo the Acclamators, they'd be in range of the SPHA-Ts, gunships, etc. Besides, if the Acclamators float above the battlefield, they can't really offer shield support, and they can't support or guard the SPHA's - or recharge them.the above has the difference of being very visible targets for eminently capable Eldar counter-fire, as well as having to contend with eldar visual and sensor spoofing tech.
As opposed to the first eldar to leave the underground facilities simply getting annihilated by a megaton rated gun of doom.
As an Eldar commander, I would be deploying fast movers against the SPHATs, jetbikes and medium Grav-tanks, the sphats are very unwieldy weapon platforms, and while they are probably guarenteed of a kill on most things, I don't think the Turbolaser varient is much cop against a mobile army.Unless the SPHA-Ts remain fairly close to the acclamators (which they can.) It will also depend on the range. They can only threaten the SPHA-Ts if they can get into range (and the SPHA-Ts were heavily defended in the battle, IIRC ITW correctly.)
*shrug*Besides which, I thought the Eldar had some hologram/illusion/cloaking technology that made them hard to hit? If they do then that will likely apply to the Acclamators, won't it?
I'm thinking more of a "grade" of firepower than its specific limitations due to location.Its not even remotely the same. On the ground, line of sight limitations become more severe than in orbit. And there is still the detection issue.
Its very rare the eldar actually defend a fixed location in numbers, normally they are attacking. Any eldar defence is likely to take the form of an extremely aggressive and mobile offensive.They're the defending force in an entrenched position. I presume they have static installations that can have shielding or project theatre shielding for protection purposes, just as the Acclamators can.
the maiden world bit was simply a throwaway hook for the eldar to be there man. maiden worlds tend to be abandoned eldar worlds, just left to grow as garden planets, sometimes they get defiled etc.Wasn't that what the whole "Geonosis being a Maiden world" meant? That (for the debate) it was assumed Geonosis was Eldar territory?
The smallest titans are about 20 metres tall, and are ridiculously agile things with jump-packs. they have high end 40k Anti-armour lasers, and rapid fire light-anti-armour missile launchers. I suspect getting stepped on by one would suck as well. The eldar use them to probe for weak points in enemy formationsHow powerful are the titans?
Well, I see a compromise here, Tactical use of light acclamator weaponry, and heavy LOS D-cannon arrays in fixed positions. Giving use a no-mans land so to speak, similar to the film, where each side strikes out from. Although as I say, the eldar do deploy tank mounted D-cannons.And I don't see the Eldar NOt using such a weapon if they could (barring LOS limitations.) Arguably the D-cannons would be fixed installations, correct? This would mean that there are limits on how close the Acclamators can get (if they get into line of sight - ie over the horizon, then they'll probably risk getting hit.) I don't see this as being unfair neccesarily
Yep.I'm assuming they're beam weapons like the SPHA-Ts, and thus would have line of sight limitations.
Are we talking about actual ships here, or just the deathstar ?Shielding has been demonstrated to be "dynamic" it can be extended or projected over distances ( up to several ship lengths away) and can be redefined to encompass other targets (IE the DS2 over Endor's moon.)
I think clustering together, even under the guns and shield of an Acc could only go badly for them against the eldar. and it doesn't get em real farThey can't take territory while under shield influence and they can only attack what comes into range, but barring D-cannon assault (which I wouldn't rule out) they can almost certainly survive any bombardment.
*shrug*They probably can alter the configurations as they need to, as long as there is an Acclamator handy.
Yeah, but they are Slow ass tissue paper guns of doom, In a similar vein the LAATs are by no means vunerable, and their over the horizon shots do depend on targetting info from the Accs, as you say, Eldar stealth is going to be an issue.SPHA-Ts will qualify as "megaton rated guns o' doom" as well anyhow. Or there are kiloton-megaton ranged missiles (which gunships, properly-configured SPHA's, and possibly AT-TEs) can fire from behind the horizon
Darksaber has Daala expanding the shields on an ISD to cover another one.white_rabbit wrote:Are we talking about actual ships here, or just the deathstar ?
In X-wing: Rogue Squadron, Corran's rear shielding extended about 20 meters away from the ship (nearly 2 full ship lengths away.)Black Admiral wrote:Darksaber has Daala expanding the shields on an ISD to cover another one.white_rabbit wrote:Are we talking about actual ships here, or just the deathstar ?
Thats why they protected the SPHA-Ts though (with AT-TEs, troopers, etc.)white_rabbit wrote: As an Eldar commander, I would be deploying fast movers against the SPHATs, jetbikes and medium Grav-tanks, the sphats are very unwieldy weapon platforms, and while they are probably guarenteed of a kill on most things, I don't think the Turbolaser varient is much cop against a mobile army.
Its the same grade of firepower available to SPHA-Ts and/or gunships, at the very least..I'm thinking more of a "grade" of firepower than its specific limitations due to location.
But they do have fixed defenses (and presumably shielding/defense against megaton range attacks) - which means at the very least they have something to retreat into (if not several such places, if its their frigging planet.) Even if they don't sit tight defensively. They still have that warp gate thingy right? That would at least give them the ability to dictate ranges (and range is one of hte few potential advantages the Clones have in this situation, the others including their potential firepower and the acclamators shielding.)Its very rare the eldar actually defend a fixed location in numbers, normally they are attacking. Any eldar defence is likely to take the form of an extremely aggressive and mobile offensive.
But its Eldar territory, correct? If they "abandoned" it they had to have lived there to begin with.the maiden world bit was simply a throwaway hook for the eldar to be there man. maiden worlds tend to be abandoned eldar worlds, just left to grow as garden planets, sometimes they get defiled etc.
A giant robot in other words. I was curious more in terms of range and firepower wise. Kiloton range? megaton range? Stuff like that.The smallest titans are about 20 metres tall, and are ridiculously agile things with jump-packs. they have high end 40k Anti-armour lasers, and rapid fire light-anti-armour missile launchers. I suspect getting stepped on by one would suck as well. The eldar use them to probe for weak points in enemy formations
Effective range? How large an area/formation can it affect? How severe effects are we talking (disorinetation? Insanity? Hallucinations? Outright mind control?)Next size up are just a bigger version, with anti-titan lasers etc.
Warlocks are psyker-titans, powerful titan grade guns, undefined precognitive abilities, usual Eldar stealth, can use a nifty psychic gun that kills and is used to send enemy formations into disarray, mentally fucking with them.
They must leave some pretty big craters in the ground when they step at that speed.Eldar titans can move about as fast as their grav-tanks can on the ground, and are agile enough (probably due to copious use of anti-grav/jump pack technology) that they have similar firing arcs to turret mounted weaponry) Speed, we are talking a max combat speed of 80kph plus, max speed of 100+
I figured the heavy D-cannons would act as deterrent from Acclamators from getting too close (unless they wqant to risk getting hit.) or lifting too high up into the air. As for the tank mounted, I see no problem with them being able to attack an Acclamator if they can get close enough (I doubt a single tank mounted D-cannon, even if shields can't block 'interdimensional' attacks, would kill an Acclmator in a few hits.)Well, I see a compromise here, Tactical use of light acclamator weaponry, and heavy LOS D-cannon arrays in fixed positions. Giving use a no-mans land so to speak, similar to the film, where each side strikes out from. Although as I say, the eldar do deploy tank mounted D-cannons.
See my other posts (and Black Admirals). We're talking ships too. The Death STar was just a canon example (the only differencee between planetary shielding and capital ship shielding is a matter of scale and complexity, like with most SW technology like turbolasers and superlasers, ion engines, or hypermatter reactors.)Are we talking about actual ships here, or just the deathstar ?
True, but the option is still there. An Acclamator/SPHA-T formation under the ship's shields might make a tempting target to lure the Eldar into an ambush (for example, possibly having gunships sweep in from behind and rake them)I think clustering together, even under the guns and shield of an Acc could only go badly for them against the eldar. and it doesn't get em real far
Movement wise they're slow yes (because they're frigging huge), but they compensate by having very powerful and long-ranged weapons. Rate of fire-wise, depends on the weapon equipped and/or the power rating (a laser cannon at a lower setting could fire fairly rapidly.)Yeah, but they are Slow ass tissue paper guns of doom, In a similar vein the LAATs are by no means vunerable, and their over the horizon shots do depend on targetting info from the Accs, as you say, Eldar stealth is going to be an issue.
Well, that's their advantage. Do they have comm jamming technology? Of course, they may not be able to jam standard comms (which *are* lightspeed, but aren't photons/lasers the same way TLs aren't "real" lasers. In fact comm signals and TLs seem to be related - you can modify a laser rifle or laser cannon in such a way as to send comm signals. And you can use them for targeting purposes too. Though note I only say *may not* be able to, not that they won't be able to.)Communications wise, the eldar use psychic technology, which is usually a neat cop-out for the comms jamming issue.
