Tau technology

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Fingolfin_Noldor
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Cykeisme wrote:I find the whole xxxXxtreme GRIMDARK to be pretty cool.
The Imperium's doing fine, but if its armies fail, it'll be chewed up very quickly in a new Age of Strife, possibly worse than the original.
Billions of soldiers perishing every day, countless heroes dying, unsung.

Or do you guys figure the Imperium is, logically, in no real danger at all?
:wtf: The Grimdark is going to absurd lengths if you ask me.
Falkenhayn wrote:However, Captain Sicarius and 1200 SMs halted the 3rd Phase expansion of the Tau Empire, which was pretty awesome.
Are there any details of that?
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Re: Tau technology

Post by white_rabbit »

I'm not sure how that changes the point about "the Imperium would help their allies." The Imperium have helped the AdMech (who are part of the Imperium but are more of allies and retain their own sovereignty and territories) and the AstarteS (who also can have their own domains/planets and are more or less independent frfom the Imperium proper.)
The Mechanicus are intimately entwined with the Imperium, note they don't have a Squat on the Council of High Lords, or indeed in any position of authority. The Mechanicus are totally, completely different from the Squats, similarly the Astartes, who despite being independent from the Imperiums usual control heirarchy, are firmly under its boot as soon as the "local", (and I use that term loosely), authority decides they are going to do something about it. Huron Blackheart and the Astral Claws are the most notable example, he got away with literal murder, right up until he vapourised the Imperial Investigation fleet, sent to find out why he was in arrears.

The Squats traded resources and licensed designs with the Imperium, and Squats being part of the Imperial guard kinda went away after Rogue Trader.
From what I've gathered, manyn were once apart of the Imperium, then they left. That doesn't preclude them being absorbed back into the Imperium (the remnants at least.) In modern editions they would simply be "just another mutant" type, albeit a more stable one than others.
I don't think theres a problem with theorising that squat remnants might have been absorbed into the Imperium, but firstly, theres no specific mention of it, secondly, theres likely never going to be one, with the Demiurg shaping up as the Dwarves in Space, and a client race/ally of the Tau.
Certain things yes (Like the Ordo Malleus depiction), but I don't see how the squats that allied with Sagramoso would be a case, but that's more IMHO of an exception (and can be explained as someone who is only a little familiar with the Inquisition labelling all three branches as Ordo Malleus because they thought thats what it was - one cannot always ruel out human stupidity. Or maybe it was deliberate misinformation.
They have repeatedly refused to release the book, despite giving heavy love to the mans previous work, its a damn shame that the entire thing gets tossed, but frankly, it was just fucking weird, and doesn't fit anymore.
I should also note that for analytical purpsoes, I tend not to give a flying fuck what the "Intellectual propertY" implies,
Thats fine, and a perfectly valid opinion, but I would point out that its pointless to include information we know to be very overtly and carefully disavowed, without any wiggle room, both in universe and out. Its like the Baneblades, we KNOW that the 1000 ton version used to exist, and its fine to theorise that there might be a 1000 ton superheavy like that still around.

But it isn't the Baneblade, its something completely different, and no amount of wiggling is going to change that. So why on earth would you try and make it fit back in to your analysis ? Clear case of retconning, game over.

The Squats are the same, they won't be playing a significant part in 40k for the forseeable future, and they aren't likely to be resurrected, not with another race blatently designed to have their aesthetic.
And in the case of GW, I rarely if ever give much attention to their iP
Just because the canon can be twisted to include every possible fragment, doesn't mean you should.
On a more serious note, I could say a good deal of what BL publishes could, in a certain interpretation, fly in the face of the IP, too
That would be, on first guess, the opposite of what you espouse ?
sides which, Ian Watson is IMHO an early pioneer in the 40K MOAR GRIMDARK! philosophy
How so ? His work includes pretty much the basic information of the Imperium and the 40k universe, he doesn't so much evolve the setting in any particular degree as much as he is one of the early authors.
Squats are pretty well traveled after all, and I see no reason why they wouldn't be wanting to expand/colonise as well.
Why should they ? These are Space Dwarves remember, (Ork and Squat Warlords has them actually PREFER the term Dwarves) Dwarves don't do expansion and colonisation, they've also got densely grouped, resource rich worlds that they rarely fully exploit or populate. Hence the multiple city/states, or Strongholds, that they can have on a single planet.
And just browsing the net, it seems like when they were developed in earlier WD magazines and such they did expand and settle throughout the galaxy (there's even mention fo the Squats trying to re-discover lost worlds.)
Yeah, theres a long lost stronghold, full of mythical shit. Can't remember its name from O&SW, What did I tell you, its fucking dwarves man, they probably buried the fucking thing and can't find it :lol:
but once a few homeworlds/strongholds get totally wiped out why the fuck would they stay the corse, stubborn or not?
I don't wish to sound like a broken record....but fucking Dwarves man! The Squats are described as an immensely stubborn and proud race, the the point that its a completely inhuman attribute, which funnily enough, Imperials can't comprehend. It might be fucking stupid, but by Grimnir and Grungi's hairy nadgers, those fucking bugs aren't going to beat Warlord Hargrimm the OrkBasher of the League of Grendel out of his own Hold!
At the very least they'd be evacuating their important people and civilians.
Their most important people would be FIGHTING, I seem recall some sort of militia aspect to the squats as well, which makes it unlikely they are gonna flee. Squat leaders get stuck the fuck in, but unfortunately also tend to be heads of the civilian goverment (i.e. Clan leaders, Ancestor Lords etc)

We are talking tiny stragglers, running the gauntlet of disrupted warp travel, without Navigators (canonically the Imperiums biggest advantage over alien races vis a vis FTL travel) as well as tyranid invasion.
Unless, of course, the Tyranids magically managed to simultaneously ambush all the Squat worlds at once.
They don't have to, the very nature of the squats would lend itself to them getting crushed, defeated in detail. This isn't the Imperium, with its million worlds.

Good point. And there's the aforementioned expeditions, I believe.
I think the kicker is that they've got supposedly the best, unequalled by any other race, method of spaceship propulsion. One would expect them to have built a few ships with it :D
Hell, the whole "shadow in the Warp" thing would be a big tipoff.
It also tends to make people with psychic powers die screaming And at this point is unexpected in this portion of the galaxy.
Not fast, no, but nor will the Tyranids, for numerous reasons (Having to find them, taking time to "consolidate" resources, rebuild troops, etc.)
The Nids don't exactly have react though do they ? The way the invasion is described is essentially, " Suddenly, FUCKING TYRANIDS!!?"

Its annoying, but the Squats are well placed to get eaten, I wouldn't be astonished if the local Ork and Imperial presence lured the Nids, and the Squats just got obliterated as a coherent race in the process.
You wouldn't get a character named 'Biff' in modern BL stuff.
ITS BIFFING TIME!
"More Juvenile?" Than a universe with chainsaw swords and space cathedrals and whatnot? Its the sense/element of absurdity that I rather like about 40K - it shouldn't take itself too seriously, after all. That was oine of the enjoyable things about Space Marine. IW on the other hand, tried to be "too" serious I think and fucked up royally.
Biffing time isn't even in the same ballpark as Chainsaw swords and gothic space architecture. For all its more lunatic aspects, the early 40k setting has every single one of the Grim Dark aspects that the Space marine novel includes.
Are there any details of that?
Its in Codex space Marines, its nothing special IMO, just setting Sicarius up to be AWESOME so they could flog his new ( and way cooler than the lightning claws version) model.

As I recall, he gets called back to fight the Black Crusade, which is something I feel ambiguous about, because its part of the trend of letting the Tau off thats being written into things now.

On the one hand, its funny, because you can beat the Tau fanboys (possibly one of the worst elements in general 40k nobhead fanboys) with how their bluies are saved by authorial fiat. On the other hand, I think its a bit lazy, and is becoming overused.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Falkenhayn »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:
Falkenhayn wrote:However, Captain Sicarius and 1200 SMs halted the 3rd Phase expansion of the Tau Empire, which was pretty awesome.
Are there any details of that?
Yeah. The Imperium did a force depletion estimate based on the Tau's current rate of advance. They determined that unchecked, the Tau would acquire territory and resources that would push them over the line from "Minor Local Annoyance" to "Credible Threat to the Segmentum" [My words]. So Cato showed up with the Ultra's 2nd Company, and Marneus Calgar called in some markers with other Chapters, and suddenly there were 1200 or so SMs on the Tau's frontier. Sicarius took this composite force, and utilized its mobility and elite nature to replicate Tau Tactics against the Tau, who folded up like the Bills in the Superbowl. Then he sodded off somewhere and the army demobilized.

So the Tau were halted, in many places they lost ground they'd conquered, and most importantly, they've lost the initiative. Since Tau doctrine turns to shit faster than Taco Bell if they don't have the initiative, they'll have to sit and lick their wounds until GW gives them another shot.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Connor MacLeod »

white_rabbit wrote: The Mechanicus are intimately entwined with the Imperium, note they don't have a Squat on the Council of High Lords, or indeed in any position of authority. The Mechanicus are totally, completely different from the Squats, similarly the Astartes, who despite being independent from the Imperiums usual control heirarchy, are firmly under its boot as soon as the "local", (and I use that term loosely), authority decides they are going to do something about it. Huron Blackheart and the Astral Claws are the most notable example, he got away with literal murder, right up until he vapourised the Imperial Investigation fleet, sent to find out why he was in arrears.

The Squats traded resources and licensed designs with the Imperium, and Squats being part of the Imperial guard kinda went away after Rogue Trader.
But as I recall even in second edition they still served alongside them as allies, much as the AdMech or Astartes can, even if they weren't "officially" part of the Guard (that part could be argued, since I dont think the whole "mercenary" aspect contradicts the latter interpretations - think of the Kroot.) And the Squats would still be "under the heel" of the Imperium - they couldn't stop them any more than the Astartes could if they wanted to fuck them over, don't you think?
I don't think theres a problem with theorising that squat remnants might have been absorbed into the Imperium, but firstly, theres no specific mention of it, secondly, theres likely never going to be one, with the Demiurg shaping up as the Dwarves in Space, and a client race/ally of the Tau.
I have heard there was some magaizne article Jervis Johnson wrote about them where the "Tyranids ate them" idea was used. And the Demiurg aren't even relevant since they're xenos, not abhumans.
They have repeatedly refused to release the book, despite giving heavy love to the mans previous work, its a damn shame that the entire thing gets tossed, but frankly, it was just fucking weird, and doesn't fit anymore.
I havent checked lately but there are some authors they dont republish. Jonathan Green's Armageddon novels for one. and they waiteda while to republish Storm of Iron (I know cuz I had to buy that one long before they reprinted it.)
Thats fine, and a perfectly valid opinion, but I would point out that its pointless to include information we know to be very overtly and carefully disavowed, without any wiggle room, both in universe and out. Its like the Baneblades, we KNOW that the 1000 ton version used to exist, and its fine to theorise that there might be a 1000 ton superheavy like that still around.

But it isn't the Baneblade, its something completely different, and no amount of wiggling is going to change that. So why on earth would you try and make it fit back in to your analysis ? Clear case of retconning, game over.
I have to ask "how do we know?" GW from what I understand (and from what I recall you yourself have said) haven't ever given much of a thought to how continuity goes.

And the Baneblade thing is very simple since the whole point of contention relies on the name. Both types are obviously different vehicles, but having their names derived from different dialects of Gothic (its not like humanity doesnt have a fuckton of languages out there) that just conicidentally (in our own) translate to "Baneblade". Or, even more simply, its just a translation/language error and the bigger one ain't a real baneblade it was just mistranslated/misidentified in that way - language can be very bizarere like that. Same with alot of things really, but its not that hard a rationalization to make.
The Squats are the same, they won't be playing a significant part in 40k for the forseeable future, and they aren't likely to be resurrected, not with another race blatently designed to have their aesthetic.
I never said they would be playing a significant role, I just said that its frigging retarded to argue the Tyranids magically managed to exterminate the entire race wholesale. Or are we going to assume Tyranids magically can locate and teleport to every place a Squat would be in the galaxy strictly to assasinate them?
Just because the canon can be twisted to include every possible fragment, doesn't mean you should.
Except I'm not. I'm not acepting (For example) that the Emperor is still alive and kicking, or that the Space Wolves homeworld is Lucan, or that Titans are only 30 meters tall (which would necessitate them having magic shrinky technology.) But the idea the "Tyranids exterminated the squats" is equally fucking retarded, simple as that.
That would be, on first guess, the opposite of what you espouse ?
Well considering I'm one of those who doesn't constantly crow "The Imperium is fucked/the sky is falling/everyone is doomed/the entire galaxy is constantly at WARRRR!!!") I think that would be rather self evident. :P
How so ? His work includes pretty much the basic information of the Imperium and the 40k universe, he doesn't so much evolve the setting in any particular degree as much as he is one of the early authors.
Yes, his novels pretty much read as "travel guide to 40K" rather than having a plotline, but he does spend a fair bit of the novel having Jaq waxing poetic about pseudophilosophical stuff. And there's always Chaos Child (or as I think of it "Jaq Goes Mad")
Why should they ? These are Space Dwarves remember, (Ork and Squat Warlords has them actually PREFER the term Dwarves) Dwarves don't do expansion and colonisation, they've also got densely grouped, resource rich worlds that they rarely fully exploit or populate. Hence the multiple city/states, or Strongholds, that they can have on a single planet.
Haven't read Ork and Squat Warlords, but from what I have read (including Codex Imperialis) they DO go out and explore and try to find lost worlds and have colonized in the past. And I consider the whole "Space Dwarf" concept to be pretty much irrelevant, since its an out of universe characterization. (the fact they evolved from the fantasy aspects is a side point. Besides wasn't GW obsessed with distinguishing 40K from Warhammer for those same reasons?) And they aren't a totally separate race, they're still a form of human, albeit mutated (a poitn also made in those books)
Yeah, theres a long lost stronghold, full of mythical shit. Can't remember its name from O&SW, What did I tell you, its fucking dwarves man, they probably buried the fucking thing and can't find it :lol:
No, its mentioned in Codex Imperialis (I just managed to get a look at it) and I know its popped up in other (earlier?) sources.
I don't wish to sound like a broken record....but fucking Dwarves man! The Squats are described as an immensely stubborn and proud race, the the point that its a completely inhuman attribute, which funnily enough, Imperials can't comprehend. It might be fucking stupid, but by Grimnir and Grungi's hairy nadgers, those fucking bugs aren't going to beat Warlord Hargrimm the OrkBasher of the League of Grendel


These are the same abhuman squats right? The ones that descended from humanity? I don't find that very "inhuman."

Their most important people would be FIGHTING, I seem recall some sort of militia aspect to the squats as well, which makes it unlikely they are gonna flee. Squat leaders get stuck the fuck in, but unfortunately also tend to be heads of the civilian goverment (i.e. Clan leaders, Ancestor Lords etc)


Militias? Sure I remember that too, but not everyone fights at the drop of the hat I think.. I recall it being mentioned that Squats are all required to serve in the military at some point, but they have to breed first to keep the race going . I also noted the Codex Imperialis stating they have a strong sense of self-preservation, so I doubt you can say they are goign to completely disregard the potential destruction of their race. I doubt the Ancestors would either.

And then there's any lost worlds, expedition fleets out, Squats just roaming around the galaxy for various reasons, etc. How are the Tyranids going to get them?


We are talking tiny stragglers, running the gauntlet of disrupted warp travel, without Navigators (canonically the Imperiums biggest advantage over alien races vis a vis FTL travel) as well as tyranid invasion.


Several points:

1- The size of the disruption will depend on the size of th efleet. Isnt it only the very massive Tyranid forces
that create really large disruptions, and even then it will be noticable as it comes in (as noted.) Even if the Dwarfs have no astropaths/Navigators, they have psykers of some sort and I am willing to bet Navigators and astorpahts would be present in some worlds (on visiting Imperium ships, or on outposts or whatever.)

Hell looking at the Codex Imperialis map it looks like the Squats encompass a pretty fucking huge territory as well (particularily since the worlds they occupy are so specialized) and that alone is goign to be a problem unless they magically drop out of the warp right on top of the planets and coordinate this over vast tracts of space.

They don't have to, the very nature of the squats would lend itself to them getting crushed, defeated in detail. This isn't the Imperium, with its million worlds.


So? The Tyranids have hardly managed to wipe out huge chunks of the Imperium either, despite repeated hive fleets. The Squats may still be smaller (some thousands of worlds compared to millions) but I am still debating whether the Tyranids would swallow them up in one gulp and that the Squats are just gonna sit there and take it and let themselves be totally wiped out. That's far too bloody one dimensional.


I think the kicker is that they've got supposedly the best, unequalled by any other race, method of spaceship propulsion. One would expect them to have built a few ships with it :D


I dug around and found more explicit references to starships than what you already indicated, so we know they got them.


It also tends to make people with psychic powers die screaming And at this point is unexpected in this portion of the galaxy.


true, but the Ancestors/living ancestors are psychci are they not? are they somehow going to fail to pick up on this? And the whole shadow in the warp thing is hardly "Stealthy" even then, especially with large fleets or ones that throw a large warp-disturbing area of effect.


The Nids don't exactly have react though do they ? The way the invasion is described is essentially, " Suddenly, FUCKING TYRANIDS!!?"

Its annoying, but the Squats are well placed to get eaten, I wouldn't be astonished if the local Ork and Imperial presence lured the Nids, and the Squats just got obliterated as a coherent race in the process.


Which brings us back to the original point. "Yes, the squats were defeated, but they weren't totally wiped out." There's a rather big fucking difference there, and the whole (as you put it) "Suddenly Fucking Tyranids!" approach is so contrived its of the "bend over backwards to make it work" variety.


Biffing time isn't even in the same ballpark as Chainsaw swords and gothic space architecture. For all its more lunatic aspects, the early 40k setting has every single one of the Grim Dark aspects that the Space marine novel includes.


Maybe, but they didn't "beat you to death over the head with it" every other sentence the way they do now. Its nice to have some contrast (positive and negative tends to amplify the grimness. The stuff in "CAin's Last Stand" which I've been reading, is a good example. Teenage Sororitas preparing for an invasion where they might die rather than being kids is to me, a rather grim and forboding idea. but the whole "THE RACE IS DOOMEED" nihilism bullshit they seem to try injecting nowadays is tiresome.

Fuck, at this point its degenerated to the level of self parody, so one could say its come full circle, ,even if the humor and self parody is completely unintentional.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Falkenhayn wrote: Yeah. The Imperium did a force depletion estimate based on the Tau's current rate of advance. They determined that unchecked, the Tau would acquire territory and resources that would push them over the line from "Minor Local Annoyance" to "Credible Threat to the Segmentum" [My words].
Er, what??? A segmentum would likely have hundreds of thousands of worlds in it, ,many of which are going to be as populous if not moreso than the Tau worlds. Even if we assumed a 100x increase in territory, the Tau would still hve maybe a few tens of thousands of worlds tops. There's no way in hell they'd be a "credible" threat - nevermidn all the problems with logistics and communcations lag that a massive increase that would take would involve.

If anything, it sounds like someone with a grudge against the Tau exaggerated the threat (Propaganda, Ho!) and getting the Astartes to kick their asses.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by white_rabbit »

But as I recall even in second edition they still served alongside them as allies, much as the AdMech or Astartes can, even if they weren't "officially" part of the Guard (that part could be argued, since I dont think the whole "mercenary" aspect contradicts the latter interpretations - think of the Kroot.) And the Squats would still be "under the heel" of the Imperium - they couldn't stop them any more than the Astartes could if they wanted to fuck them over, don't you think?
I'm not sure what you are getting at here, I'm basically saying that the Squats in no way compare to the adeptus mechanicus or space marines, who are part of the Imperium. The most you can say about the Squats is that they are close allies.
I have heard there was some magaizne article Jervis Johnson wrote about them where the "Tyranids ate them" idea was used. And the Demiurg aren't even relevant since they're xenos, not abhumans.
Okay, but what does that have to do with what I said ?
I havent checked lately but there are some authors they dont republish. Jonathan Green's Armageddon novels for one. and they waiteda while to republish Storm of Iron (I know cuz I had to buy that one long before they reprinted it.)
So ? Thats because of printing costs, i.e. If I recall what was posted on the BL forums correctly, they need a minimum order of something like 5000 books. Until they say something to contradict previous statements, Space Marine isn't getting reprinted because its so divorced from the current setting.
I have to ask "how do we know?" GW from what I understand (and from what I recall you yourself have said) haven't ever given much of a thought to how continuity goes.
We don't know anything for sure, but that doesn't preclude common sense, or the balance of probabilities.
And the Baneblade thing is very simple since the whole point of contention relies on the name. Both types are obviously different vehicles, but having their names derived from different dialects of Gothic (its not like humanity doesnt have a fuckton of languages out there) that just conicidentally (in our own) translate to "Baneblade". Or, even more simply, its just a translation/language error and the bigger one ain't a real baneblade it was just mistranslated/misidentified in that way - language can be very bizarere like that. Same with alot of things really, but its not that hard a rationalization to make.
The problem is that its a steaming pile of bollocks. We KNOW that they are talking about the Baneblade of Epic, Forgeworld etc. Its the same damn tank.
I never said they would be playing a significant role, I just said that its frigging retarded to argue the Tyranids magically managed to exterminate the entire race wholesale. Or are we going to assume Tyranids magically can locate and teleport to every place a Squat would be in the galaxy strictly to assasinate them?
I don't think even GW are arguing that, they've just quietly exterminated the race, and are shoving them quietly under the carpet.
Except I'm not. I'm not acepting (For example) that the Emperor is still alive and kicking, or that the Space Wolves homeworld is Lucan, or that Titans are only 30 meters tall (which would necessitate them having magic shrinky technology.) But the idea the "Tyranids exterminated the squats" is equally fucking retarded, simple as that.
These are exactly the same as the Baneblade issue, and yeah, it might be stupid, it might be difficult, nigh impossible to nail down a handy explaination for every problem with the idea, to the point where we start waffling about stuff that I find it extremely unlikely any GW staffer even bothered to think about. But its a fact that they are retconned. No amount of rationalisation is going to change it.

I personally expect the Titan scale issue to very quickly become standardised as well, with Apocalypse publishing a Warlord scale, and Forgeworld seriously considering a Warlord model, I think that future publications by the Studio/FW are likely to endorse the smaller scale titans, and that inevitably this will follow on to the novels, with most authors taking their cue from the main game and FW.
Well considering I'm one of those who doesn't constantly crow "The Imperium is fucked/the sky is falling/everyone is doomed/the entire galaxy is constantly at WARRRR!!!") I think that would be rather self evident. :P
Being inclusive of as much information as possibly doesn't preclude agreeing with the the above. The Imperium is fucked, we've got it in black and white that the sky IS falling, and the everybody IS doomed. That this might take ten thousand more years is what makes it perfectly acceptable as a setting Hell, IIRC the Cabal predicts that the Imperium will last 20000 years.
. And I consider the whole "Space Dwarf" concept to be pretty much irrelevant, since its an out of universe characterization.
No it isn't, thats what the Squats themselves prefer to be called! :lol: Dwarves!

These are the same abhuman squats right? The ones that descended from humanity? I don't find that very "inhuman."
Umm yeah, thats kinda the point, they are descended from humanity, and are "abhuman". Thats why they've got mental and physical attributes that "normal" humans don't get.
Militias? Sure I remember that too, but not everyone fights at the drop of the hat I think.. I recall it being mentioned that Squats are all required to serve in the military at some point, but they have to breed first to keep the race going . I also noted the Codex Imperialis stating they have a strong sense of self-preservation, so I doubt you can say they are goign to completely disregard the potential destruction of their race. I doubt the Ancestors would either.

And then there's any lost worlds, expedition fleets out, Squats just roaming around the galaxy for various reasons, etc. How are the Tyranids going to get them?
to obliterate the Squats as functional part of 40k galactic scale politics/activity, the Tyranids don't have to. For GW to say that the Squats are dead and gone, there could be thousands left.

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Re: Tau technology

Post by Falkenhayn »

Connor MacLeod wrote:
Er, what??? A segmentum would likely have hundreds of thousands of worlds in it, ,many of which are going to be as populous if not moreso than the Tau worlds. Even if we assumed a 100x increase in territory, the Tau would still hve maybe a few tens of thousands of worlds tops. There's no way in hell they'd be a "credible" threat - nevermidn all the problems with logistics and communcations lag that a massive increase that would take would involve.

If anything, it sounds like someone with a grudge against the Tau exaggerated the threat (Propaganda, Ho!) and getting the Astartes to kick their asses.
Yeah, bad word choice on my part.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Samuel »

IIRC the Cabal predicts that the Imperium will last 20000 years.
They also had a vested interest in lying. Given they had a hand in helping out Chaos by improving Horus's odds, they were probably puppets for the dark gods.
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Re: Tau technology

Post by Imperial Overlord »

There are lots of other problems with the Cabals predictions. Like the only Eldar in their number wasn't a Farseer. That the Eldar lead by Farseers, pretty much the top end diviners of the entire setting, aided the Imperium during the Heresy and they sure as hell weren't helping because they loved humans. Not to mention that the Cabal whips out one alleged future showing device and the Alpha Legion decides to believe that a bunch of human loathing xenos are totally telling the truth and they should betray the Imperium on this completely unsupported and unsubstantiated account by people who have every reason to want the human race extinct.

That the doodad is a mind control device makes more sense.
The Excellent Prismatic Spray. For when you absolutely, positively must kill a motherfucker. Accept no substitutions. Contact a magician of the later Aeons for details. Some conditions may apply.
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