Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles (Spoilers)

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Who has the cooler ships?

The Empire
47
68%
The Alliance
22
32%
 
Total votes: 69

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Ford Prefect
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Ford Prefect »

Stark wrote:Does that go for fighters too? The fighters seem pretty one-sided.
There's no direct statement that the Spartanian is superior to the Walküre, but logically it would be the case. That said, it could just be Poplan. :)
Vympel wrote:Whilst the design of Imperial ships is very form-focused, how do we know that if the Alliance had parity of technology their design philosophy would win out? There are no obvious flaws that I can see in Imperial capital ship design over those of the Alliance. The enlisted crew may not have as nice digs as the officers but I don't see how that's really going to effect things.
Err, they have technological disadvantage, but their design philosophy gives them enough of an edge to have parity with the Imperials. Alliance battleships are actually smaller than their Imperial equivalent, are by default less advanced and roughly equal. It's not really clear how great the difference in technology is, though it's obviously not great, but logically if the FPA had technological parity then they would have pound for pound superiority. I'm not suggesting they'd have some sort massive, overwhelming advantage, but it's part of the text that socially the FPA is better able to exploit the technology they have.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Nephtys »

Just started watching the show. I like how the fighters are basically bricks with little vectoring guns/thrusters. It makes them look distinct. As do the 'big mass of axial beams' mounted on the ships as their main armament.

I don't quite get why they fight so close that maneuver is a matter of fiat though. Like the part where the FPA fleet passes clean through the Imperial fleet during Astarte. Or why flanking is such a big deal, when it seems that the large capital vessels can wheel themselves about relatively quickly.

--

As to FPA superiority in their ship to ship tonnage basis, well. The fact that their bridges aren't giant greco-roman throne rooms, nor do they have large shopping-mall styled commons areas probably helps to cram in a few more guns.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Stark »

Flanking is important because if you're on the short end of the enemy formation, they can rotate to face you all they want, your longer line can wrap around and rape them with shots from the side.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Vympel »

Ford Prefect wrote: Err, they have technological disadvantage, but their design philosophy gives them enough of an edge to have parity with the Imperials. Alliance battleships are actually smaller than their Imperial equivalent, are by default less advanced and roughly equal.
I don't think they are. The LOGH wiki wrongly calls an Imperial battleship a destroyer, but the 'classic' Imperial LOGH ship (which Reinhard used himself as a Rear Admiral / Vice Admiral before he became full Admiral and got Brunhild, see the Gaiden episodes) is a battleship, and is actually smaller than Alliance battleships. This makes more sense in the context of their being less advanced - the Alliance has to build its battleships bigger to make up for the disparity.

There are some bigger Imperial designs (like Bayerlein or Lennenkampts enormous ships), but their classic command vessel used by non-hero characters is that battleship. Like this one:-

http://yang-wenli.wikia.com/wiki/Theodoricus
As to FPA superiority in their ship to ship tonnage basis, well. The fact that their bridges aren't giant greco-roman throne rooms, nor do they have large shopping-mall styled commons areas probably helps to cram in a few more guns.
Er - Imperial bridges are clearly far smaller than those of the Alliance, with far fewer crew. Alliance bridges are elaborate multi-level affairs, with more men (and inexplicable cables that snap loose and kill people :))
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Vympel wrote: Er - Imperial bridges are clearly far smaller than those of the Alliance, with far fewer crew. Alliance bridges are elaborate multi-level affairs, with more men (and inexplicable cables that snap loose and kill people :))
I suppose every show with spaceship combat needs its own version of the exploding console / killer ceiling beam syndrome...
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Nephtys »

You know, for a guy who was just shot across the room fifty meters by a giant exploding pillar straight through his torso, Captain Lapp can say goodbye to his Fiancee mighty well.

Also, I rather like how you totally know that those pair of enlisted duos on both the FPA and Imperial Side are totally going to get it eventually.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Vympel »

Nephtys wrote:You know, for a guy who was just shot across the room fifty meters by a giant exploding pillar straight through his torso, Captain Lapp can say goodbye to his Fiancee mighty well.
Woah, woah!

Just to make sure - you've seen My Conquest is a Sea of Stars, then Overture to a New War - first - before the main series, right? The latter replaces episodes 1 and 2 of the main series, which you are obviously referring to (Lap doesn't die that way in Overture). Overall its a far superior version of the Battle of Astate.

Also My Conquest ... has one of the coolest uses of music ever during the Fourth Battle of Tiamat. I'm sure someone here knows the name of the piece.

Though of course if you've read my write-ups of them in this thread, its sort of like watching them :)
Also, I rather like how you totally know that those pair of enlisted duos on both the FPA and Imperial Side are totally going to get it eventually.
Do you? :)
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by KlavoHunter »

Vympel wrote:Also My Conquest ... has one of the coolest uses of music ever during the Fourth Battle of Tiamat. I'm sure someone here knows the name of the piece.
Ravel's Bolero.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Vympel »

Thanks dude. Can't believe I didn't know that off the top of my head, when I was a kid I heard it a million times.

EDIT: edited the Amlitzer entry to show that 20,000,000 men were lost by the FPA, and that Job Truniht became temporary head of the High Council in the aftermath.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Ford Prefect »

Vympel wrote:EDIT: edited the Amlitzer entry to show that 20,000,000 men were lost by the FPA, and that Job Truniht became temporary head of the High Council in the aftermath.
Goddamn fucking Job Truniht!
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Gunhead »

Vympel wrote:Thanks dude. Can't believe I didn't know that off the top of my head, when I was a kid I heard it a million times.

EDIT: edited the Amlitzer entry to show that 20,000,000 men were lost by the FPA, and that Job Truniht became temporary head of the High Council in the aftermath.
This number probably includes people taken as POWs, as per what Schenkopff said after defending Iserlohn against an imperial assault that it's hard to say if a man was captured or killed.
7th fleet did surrender and when 13th arrived to the same place Yang couldn't tell what had happened to it. So people captured are just as much lost as people who are killed or wounded.



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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Gunhead »

As to parity between ships / fleets. 10th fleet could match Black Lancers blow for blow even being outnumbered and suffering from shortages. This is of course a credit to Admiral Ulanfu also who was the commander of the 10th fleet and even being at a great disadvantage managed to force a breakthrough and save what ships he could from annihilation. This scene and others like it suggest that those big FPA ships are integral to FPA tactics and can hold a numerically superior enemy at bay when used by competent commanders.

Similar situation is repeated later by the 13th fleet when holding the rear guard against the whole Imperial fleet at Amlitzer. Oberstein does notice that Bittenfeld's fleet is too thin and re-enforcements are sent, but are too late to stop the 13th from escaping. This is partially due to Lohengram being angry at Bittenfeld when he took a pretty bad beating from the 13th and refusing to send re-enforcements. It's quite possible that Lohengram didn't have anyone to send as Kircheis was still on his way to the battle. Lohengram even states that there's no surplus forces among them.

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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Darwin »

Ford Prefect wrote: I'm not suggesting they'd have some sort massive, overwhelming advantage, but it's part of the text that socially the FPA is better able to exploit the technology they have.
I'm sure it helps that the Alliance warships are far more purpose built and don't waste tonnage on huge ornate meeting halls and buckets and buckets of fabulous hardwood and silver trim.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Uraniun235 »

Ford Prefect wrote:
Vympel wrote:EDIT: edited the Amlitzer entry to show that 20,000,000 men were lost by the FPA, and that Job Truniht became temporary head of the High Council in the aftermath.
Goddamn fucking Job Truniht!
Yeah, he's definitely a villain in this series. I only wish we got to see Cornelia Windsor get more of a comeuppance than just electoral defeat.

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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Nephtys »

Another factor seems to be that Imperial ships land directly on a planet as 'dock', while the FPA sends it's people back to orbit on shuttles to their ships.

I do also like how while the Empire's villains are corrupt aristocrats, the FPA's villains are violent tea-partiers. :P

Anyway, the copy of this show I happen to have has bloody awful subtitles. Is there anything that can be done about that? I'm kinda annoyed at seeing 'Yangwin's 13nd batallion lost 2000 fleets in the war of last week!'
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Gunhead »

Talking about firepower, did you notice Thor's hammer melts and literally pushes that melted material into the beams direction. Now I'm not an expert on DE weapons, but as I understand, laser or similar beams have very little in the way of mass and do not cause momentum and this is what would work against these type of weapons at penetrating stuff, all that molten metal and gas would want to come out the same hole the laser is burning into the target. Assuming the ship being melted is moving, if the beam wouldn't cause the melted material to fly in the beams direction, shouldn't the molten material continue moving in the same direction the craft was moving, as all that molten slag would retain the velocity the craft had before being hit by the beam.

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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Vympel »

I've PM'd you Nephtys re: better subtitles.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Simon_Jester »

Gunhead wrote:Talking about firepower, did you notice Thor's hammer melts and literally pushes that melted material into the beams direction. Now I'm not an expert on DE weapons, but as I understand, laser or similar beams have very little in the way of mass and do not cause momentum and this is what would work against these type of weapons at penetrating stuff, all that molten metal and gas would want to come out the same hole the laser is burning into the target. Assuming the ship being melted is moving, if the beam wouldn't cause the melted material to fly in the beams direction, shouldn't the molten material continue moving in the same direction the craft was moving, as all that molten slag would retain the velocity the craft had before being hit by the beam.

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Material directly facing the beam will vaporize, pushing the ship away from the beam; think of it as a kind of ablative laser propulsion
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Vympel »

One thing that occurred to me - we shouldn't really read too much in the ability of Alliance ships like with the 10th Fleet vs the Black Lancers or Yang's fleet vs the head of the Imperial pursuit force as indicative of some sort of Alliance battleship advantage or whatever the discussion was (I'm lazy, but it was along those lines). At the 6th Battle of Iserlohn (1st Season Gaiden), Reinhard as a Rear Admiral confounded tens of thousands of Alliance ships by leading them on a merry chase all over the corridor, without suffering any significant damage to his fleet of a mere 2,000 ships.

Lippstadt Rebellion is coming, btw.
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Vympel »

Ok, this isn't the entire Rebellion, but I thought I didn't want all the posts to be mega compendiums of just one story arc, so this is a combination of Episode 18 and 20 (Episode 19 relating to the alliance). I'll finish off the Lippstadt Rebellion in my next entry.

The Lippstadt Rebellion, Part 1

Background

On his way home from near total victory at Amritsar, Count Lohengramm received the news that the Kaiser of the Galactic Empire, Friedrich IV, had died of a heart attack.

Disappointed that he had not been able to give Friedrich IV the death he so richly deserved for taking his sister as a royal consort (i.e. concubine) at an early age, Lohengramm began to position himself to further his plans to conquer the galaxy.

The immediate question was the succession- the Kaiser had not nominated an heir. A struggle was inevitable. The issue was between Friedrich IV’s grandchildren:-

- Elizabeth, 16 years of age, the daughter of Princess Amarie, who married Duke Otho von Braunschweig;

- Sabine, 14 years of age, the daughter of Princess Christine, who married Marquis Wilhelm von Littenheim; and

- Erwin Josef, 5 years of age, heir to Crown Prince Ludwig, who had been dead for some years.

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The potential heirs

With no influential paternal support, Erwin Josef was the perfect candidate for the Secretary of State, Marquis Lichtenlade, to throw his support behind – he would be easy to use.

To guard against Duke Braunschweig and Marquis Littenheim – who of course wished to use their children as tools to acquire the throne – and had their own forces - Marquis Lichtenlade (who had no military forces) would look to Count Lohengramm.

Count Lohengramm sold his support to Lichtenlade for a high price. He was elevated to a Marquis, and became Space Fleet Commander, replacing Fleet Admiral Mückenberger, who went into retirement.

Siegfried Kircheis was made Vice-Commander of the Fleet, and was promoted to High Admiral. Mittermeyer and Reuenthal were promoted to full Admiral.

Kaiser Erwin Josef II thus became the 37th Kaiser of the Galactic Empire. Marquis Lichtenlade became Imperial Prime Minister, and was titled Duke Lichtenlade.

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Lohengramm and Lichtenlade at the coronation

As expected, Duke Braunschweig and Marquis Littenheim intended to press the issue (and probably fight amongst themselves once they had defeated Lichtenlade and Lohengramm). They immediately sought support from sympathetic corners of the military.

Their first overtures were made to Fleet Admiral Mückenberger. He summarily dismissed them:-

”I will give you one word of advice. That brat – no – Marquis Lohengramm, is a genius in war and politics. If you persist in making light of him, it will cost you dearly.”

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Marquis Littenheim (left) and Duke Braunschweig (right) scoff at Mückenberger’s warning

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Lohengramm and Mückenberger salute each other for the last time

In preparation for the coming civil war, Marquis Lohengramm knew he had to stop the Alliance – even though it was still reeling from defeat – from interfering. So Lohengramm decided that if the Empire was to have a civil war, so would the Alliance.

The Alliance Civil War will be treated in a subsequent entry.

By the new year, Space Year 797 (Imperial Year 488), the Braunschweig-Littenheim Alliance began gathering all the high nobles of the Empire under their banner. Combined, the wealth and power of the high nobles was far greater than that of Reinhard’s forces.

One notable exception was the Mariendorf family. Under the forceful direction of Hildegard von Mariendorf’s personality (Franz von Mariendorf’s daughter), they sided with Lohengramm’s faction- convinced that he had a just cause, and that he would win. Hilda reasoned that the Braunschweig-Littenheim Alliance was one of temporary convenience, and that they had failed to influence the fleet’s chain of command in any meaningful sense – even if the military force they assembled was greater than Reinhard’s, their defeat was certain. Further, the lesser nobles and common soldiery were more likely to side with Reinhard.

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Hildegard von Mariendorf

Therefore, Hildegard and Reinhard agreed between them – the Mariendorf family would rally support around Reinhard from the nobles, whilst Reinhard would guarantee that the Mariendorf family would be well treated after the victory.

The next morning, the nobles opposing the Lohengramm-Lichtenlade faction met at Duke Braunschweig's manor in the Lippstadt forest to make a secret pact. It was called the Lippstadt League. The military organization from this was called the “Lippstadt Allied Forces”.

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The Lippstadt League

Duke Braunschweig was the leader, with Marquis Littenheim as second in command. 3,760 nobles took part. Their combined military forces, being both regulars and private troops, were roughly 25.6 million men.

The commander of the Lippstadt Allied Forces was High Admiral Willibald Joachim von Merkatz – the same man who had contributed to the victory at Astarte in the previous year under Reinhard’s command. He was a famous commander, both popular and experienced.

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High Admiral Merkatz

This development was unexpected, and treated with dismay by Reinhard’s admirals. They were not aware that Merkatz had been practically forced to serve via implied threats to his daughter’s life by Duke Braunschweig.

Merkatz had extracted from Braunschweig his word that Merkatz would be given full authority in actual combat. However, Merkatz had no illusions – he was certain Braunschweig would meddle in military operations.

The fire is lit

Captain Anton Fellner and Commodore Arthur von Streit proposed to Duke Braunschweig that with 300 men, he could lead a ground assault on Reinhard’s residence and assassinate him, avoiding a full scale conflict and great harm to the citizenry.

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Fellner and Streit

Enraged at the implication he was no match for Lohengramm, Braunschweig rejected the plan. Furthermore, he hoped that by destroying Lohengramm’s fleet himself, he would demonstrate his primacy to Marquis Littenheim and the other nobles.

Captain Fellner decided to perform the assassination himself. Assembling a group of men, he tried to attack Reinhard’s home in the middle of the night – and was ambushed with far superior forces. Siegfried Kircheis personally directed the defence of the mansion, and the attempt was defeated. In accordance with a prearranged plan, Reinhard’s forces quickly moved out to seize control of important government buildings and capture as many enemy nobles as possible.

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Captain Fellner is caught by surprise

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Vice Admiral Kempf, in the armored car, guards Reinhard’s Admiralty

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Vice Admiral Bittenfeld secures Fleet Admiral Ehrenberg at the Ministry of War

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Vice Admiral Lutz secures Fleet Admiral Steinhof

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Vice Admiral Mecklinger secures the palace

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Admiral Reuenthal guards Lichtenlade’s residence

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Vice Admiral Ulrich Kesler arrests Streit

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Admiral Mittermeyer captures nobles attempting to flee at the space port

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Vice Admiral Neithard Müller - a new addition to Reinhard's men - arrives at Littenheim’s residence

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Vice Admiral Wahlen blockades Odin

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Private noble ships are destroyed by Wahlen’s forces

Realising what had happened, Braunschweig, Littenheim, and many of the other high nobles managed to leave Odin in their personal ships before they could be caught. The Wahlen Fleet waited for them in orbit, firing warning shots at first. However, Braunschweig and Littenheim managed to get away, using civilian ships as a shield - Wahlen declined to cause civilian casualties.

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The nobles escape

By the end, 625 out of the 3,760 nobles of the Lippstadt League had been detained.

In the aftermath, Commodore Streit was set free, and Captain Fellner offered his services to Marquis Lohengramm. The offer was accepted, and he was placed under Vice Admiral Oberstein’s command.

As expected, the high nobles regrouped at Geiersberg Fortress, a fortress similar in construction to Iserlohn in the Freyà System, using it as their main base, and challenging Lohengramm to decisive battle.

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The Lippstadt Allied Forces arrive at Geiersberg Fortress

In addition to High Admiral Merkatz, other notable officers with the Lippstadt Allied Forces included Vice Admiral Fahrenheit, Admiral Staden, and High Admiral Offressor, the previous general of Imperial ground forces.

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Vice Admiral Adalbert von Fahrenheit arrives at Geiersberg

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Admiral Staden

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Baron Flegel, Duke Braunschweig's nephew

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High Admiral Offressor reviews his panzer grenadiers

Against them, Lohengramm served simultaneously as all three chiefs of the Imperial Fleet, and was given a direct order by the Kaiser (through Duke Lichtenlade) to subjugate the enemy, whom Reinhard decided should be called “rebels” (much as the Free Planets Alliance was called).

Lohengramm left Odin to personally attend to the conquest of the Geiersberg. The pacification of the other rebel star systems was left to High Admiral Kircheis, with the Lutz and Wahlen Fleets also under his direct command.

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Brunhild, Barbarossa, and Königstiger take off from Odin

Opening Moves

Lippstadt League
Geiersberg Fortress, since the capture of Iserlohn, was the most important fortress in Imperial territory. It had accommodations for a stationed fleet of 16,000 ships. 45km in diameter, its main weapon - the Vulture’s Claw, was a hard X-Ray beam weapon with a power output of 740 terawatts – almost a match for the Thor Hammer of Iserlohn.

From the fortress, the rebels prepared 9 bases along the route from Odin to Geiersberg, stationing forces at each. By doing so, they hoped that “the brat” would attack each of those 9 bases in turn, reducing his forces and consuming his supplies, so that their main force could strike out from Geiersberg and annihilate the enemy in a single battle.

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The 9 fortresses

Such plan was formulated by Duke Braunschweig – though it impressed (or seemed to impress, sycophancy always being in play) the assembled high nobles, High Admiral Merkatz noted that there was nothing obligating Marquis Lohengramm to attack those 9 locations in turn. He noted that Lohengramm could chose to attack them randomly, disrupting their supplies and communications, or simply strike directly at Geiersberg. With their forces so dispersed, they would be at a disadvantage.

Merkatz therefore proposed that the 9 bases have no forces save for reconnaissance and communications – concentrating all real strength at Geiersberg for a decisive battle, and only attacking when Reinhard reached the limits of his supply.

Admiral Staden then interjected – he proposed a modification. Whilst simultaneously drawing Lohengramm to Geiersberg, a large scale force would capture Odin- thereby ‘providing protection’ to the Kaiser.

In proposing the plan, Admiral Staden probably did not expect to be the one tasked with carrying it out – but none of the assembled nobles, for all their effusive praise for the plan, seemed willing. Merkatz did not bother to object. He knew the nobles would not listen.

Altener Sector: Mittermeyer vs Staaden

Hearing of the deployment, Reinhard tasked Admiral Mittermeyer, now known as “the Gale Wolf” - to intercept Admiral Staden. Mittermeyer had studied strategic theory under Staden at the Academy. Mittermeyer noted that whilst Staden’s knowledge was impressive, he had no grasp for warfare in practical terms – only theory.

With Mittermeyer confident he could win, Reinhard dispatched him to the Altena Sector, giving him freedom to work out deployment details, and allowing him to fight before Reinhard arrived.

Admiral Mittermeyer had Rear Admiral Droisen, one of his subordinates, lay a wide minefield of 6 million automatic tracking mines in the sector.

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Beowulf and Mittermeyer’s fleet

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Rear Admiral Droisen

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Automatic tracking mines

For three days, Staden and Mittermeyer’s fleets sat on either side of the minefield, not moving.

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Who’ll blink first?

Staden, aware of Mittermeyer’s reputation for swift attacks, found his lack of action strange, and was wary of any reckless moves, despite the pressing of his younger, high noble subordinates to attack.

It was at this point that Mittermeyer allowed Staden to intercept a message, indicating that they were awaiting the arrival of Lohengramm’s main fleet, and that upon his arrival they would attack in overwhelming numbers.

Though Staaden correctly surmised it was a deliberate leak, he allowed himself to be browbeaten by the high nobles under his command, who accused him of dawdling and cowardice.

Image Image
Staden succumbs to the pressure

Pressured into attacking (and starting to look visibly ill from the strain of command) he had his forces divide into two halves. The left wing (under Staden) would clash with Mittermeyer head on, while the right wing (under Count Hildesheim) would attack from behind.

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Staden’s plan

Happy that they had finally taken the bait, Mittermeyer moved quickly- the “idiot nobles” had done as he expected, and simply assumed that Mittermeyer would sit meekly and wait to be attacked. Missiles were launched at the right wing, impacting Count Hildesheim’s forces at the 3 o’clock direction. Count Hildesheim himself was killed when his ship was hit by a missile and destroyed in the first seconds of the battle. The right wing’s situation was not helped when some of its ships skirted too close to the minefield and attracted the mines. Outmatched, the right wing was soon destroyed.

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Count Hildesheim’s quick end

Mittermeyer then ordered a full speed course change around the minefield to attack the left wing in the rear.

Caught by surprise, Staden failed to turn his fleet around in time. His flagship Augsburg damaged in the opening cannonade, he succumbed to the stress and collapsed, coughing up blood, and ordered an immediate withdrawal. Chaos ensued as rebels ships collided with each other in their haste to escape. The remnants of Staaden’s fleet retreated to Rentenberg Fortress – 70% of his fleet had been lost. Staden himself was hospitalized.

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Staaden’s flagship Augsburg is damaged

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Imperial cruisers collide
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Admiral Mittermeyer and Rear Admiral Bayerlein, his trusted subordinate

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Staden's ships retreat

Following the battle, Lohengramm’s main fleet met up with Mittermeyer (who had held position to retrieve the minefield) – Reinhard determined that Rentenberg Fortress could not be ignored, and should be captured as a bridgehead for the assault on Geiersberg.

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Brunhild and Beowulf together

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Rentenberg Fortress

The Battle of Rentenberg Fortress

Vice Admiral Oberstein advised the assembled admirals on the Brunhild that the quickest way to capture Rentenberg was to seize the nuclear fusion reactor at its center. The shortest distance to the reactor was by way of passage #6. The capture would have to be effected by use of infantry assault forces.

With Mittermeyer and Reuenthal – longtime compatriots – being unequaled in bravery and skill, even in land battle, Reinhard assigned the task of taking Rentenberg to them.

Defending passage #6 would be High Admiral Offressor.

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Black Lancer fast battleships perform a flanking maneuver

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Kempf’s flagship Jotunheim launches Valkyries

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The battle outside the fortress

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Lippstadt ships destroyed

Lohengramm’s fleet easily defeated the forces outside of Rentenberg – as the rebel ships withdrew from the onslaught, Mittermeyer and Reuenthal on the Beowulf, together with their landing ships, quickly followed, using the retreating ships as a shield, they quickly secured moorings to a crevice on the fortress’ surface before the fortress’ guns could fire on them.

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Rentenberg’s guns, with reversing Lippstadt ships in the background

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Beowulf launches mooring lines

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Landing ships rush in

With the easy part over, the armored grenadiers were sent in. With Seffle particles in use, battle axes and cross bows were the order of the day. As expected, Offressor was guarding passage #6. A virtual giant, and master of the battle-axe, Offressor slaughtered squad after squad of their forces single-handedly. 8 times, Mittermeyer and Reuenthal's forces were forced to withdraw.

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Imperial and rebel panzer grenadiers in hand to hand combat

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Offressor revels in the slaughter

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Crossbow bolts are no match for Offressor!

Lohengramm originally ordered them to kill Offressor in the most extravagant manner possible. Vice Admiral Oberstein suggested he be taken alive, as he had plans for him. Reinhard agreed.

Mittermeyer and Reuenthal then decided to go out personally. It did not take many taunts from down the passage to draw Offressor charging towards them alone. It was a simple trap – “Odd Eyes” and “Gale” had dug a hole in the passage floor and concealed it, which Offressor fell into. He was then captured, and Rentenberg Fortress was taken.

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Reuenthal has a good gloat

In accordance with Oberstein’s plan, and over Mittermeyer and Reuenthal’s objections, Offressor was then set free and given a shuttle to return to Geiersberg.

As Oberstein had expected, Offressor was greeted with suspicion when he returned to Duke Brauncshweig – he had been told all of Offressor’s men had been executed. The high nobles therefore all believed that he had been spared because he had turned traitor, and was planning to kill Braunschweig.

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Offressor, simple as ever, protested that it was a set up and barreled towards Braunschweig to make his case, causing the Duke to fear for his life. Beaten by surrounding soldiers as he advanced towards the throne, he was shot and killed by Braunchsweig’s subordinate, Commodore Ansbach.

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As planned, the news that Offressor – well known as one of the foremost men who hated “the blonde brat” - had been executed for treason aggravated the divisions in the nobles’ Allied forces, fostering mutual unease and suspicion.
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Gunhead
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Gunhead »

Great stuff, but I think you made an error, the "plan" to take Ovlesser alive came from Lohengram after Ovlesser made contact and taunted him. Lohengram got pissed and ordered Mittermeyer and Reuntal to drag Ovlesser before him, alive even if they had to cut off all of his limbs. After the duo actually succeeded in taking him alive, does Oberstein object to killing him and convinces Lohengram he can put him to a better use.

-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel

"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
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Vympel
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Vympel »

Gunhead wrote:Great stuff, but I think you made an error, the "plan" to take Ovlesser alive came from Lohengram after Ovlesser made contact and taunted him. Lohengram got pissed and ordered Mittermeyer and Reuntal to drag Ovlesser before him, alive even if they had to cut off all of his limbs. After the duo actually succeeded in taking him alive, does Oberstein object to killing him and convinces Lohengram he can put him to a better use.

-Gunhead
Nah, Oberstein first proposes he be taken alive before Ovlesser taunts him and Reinhard agrees. Ovlesser taunting him about his sister merely enrages him, but doesn't change the plan, was my reading of the episode. I think Reinhard may have wanted to kill him with his own hands after he was brought before him, but it wasn't clear and I didn't want to go into exhaustive detail of every happenstance of the episode, so I decided to just leave it out.
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Gunhead
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Gunhead »

Vympel wrote:
Gunhead wrote:Great stuff, but I think you made an error, the "plan" to take Ovlesser alive came from Lohengram after Ovlesser made contact and taunted him. Lohengram got pissed and ordered Mittermeyer and Reuntal to drag Ovlesser before him, alive even if they had to cut off all of his limbs. After the duo actually succeeded in taking him alive, does Oberstein object to killing him and convinces Lohengram he can put him to a better use.

-Gunhead
Nah, Oberstein first proposes he be taken alive before Ovlesser taunts him and Reinhard agrees. Ovlesser taunting him about his sister merely enrages him, but doesn't change the plan, was my reading of the episode. I think Reinhard may have wanted to kill him with his own hands after he was brought before him, but it wasn't clear and I didn't want to go into exhaustive detail of every happenstance of the episode, so I decided to just leave it out.
You're right, just checked myself. After they try eight times to break through, Lohengram says to to kill him as gaudily as possible. Oberstein disagrees and convinces Lohengram to capture Ovlesser. It's after that the taunting happens causing Lohengram to flip his lid.
Which fansub did you recommend to to Nephtys anyway? I recommended on too by pm.

-Gunhead
"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it."
-Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel

"And if you don't wanna feel like a putz
Collect the clues and connect the dots
You'll see the pattern that is bursting your bubble, and it's Bad" -The Hives
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Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by Marcus Aurelius »

Does anyone else think that the battleaxes and crossbows are somewhat silly? They also do not strike me as the best possible solution to the zephyr particle constrained infantry combat. A more high tech solution could be very high powered compressed air weapons, that is pneumatic air guns, which should not trigger the zephyr particle reaction, if I have understood it correctly. Despite the fact that there is not very much incentive to develop such weapons in real life, the most powerful hunting air rifles already have fairly impressive muzzle energies. More powerful weapons could be developed even with modern real life technology if there was reason to do so. If we scale air gun technology to LoGH technology level, they should be able to develop highly effective pneumatic weapons.
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takemeout_totheblack
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Re: Legend of the Galactic Heroes: Battles

Post by takemeout_totheblack »

I guess it's because the author (these were books first) preferred to write melee battles with axes and arrows.
In universe? Maybe something to do with the armor, I dunno, it seems to shrug off particle beams and maybe only high mass but relatively slow moving things can penetrate?

This doesn't really have much to do with the thread, but how does one pronounce Kircheis? In the show, because of the heavy Japanese accents of the voice actors, they pronounce it Keeru-kee-ice(u). Is this correct anyway?
Reinhard's right, it is a very unusual name, as such I can't really find any audio clips of an actual German person saying it. Does anyone here have a grasp of Germanic phonetics and could guess as to how it's sounded out?
There should be an official metric in regard to stupidity, so we can insult the imbeciles, morons, and RSAs out there the civilized way.
Any ideas for units of measure?

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali fought a 80-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire earth was destroyed.
~George Foreman, February 27th 3000 C.E.
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