I apologize for my words about the Agents in Matrix Reloaded

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-05-27 05:50am

I don't know and I really don't care. Maybe he just can.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-05-27 05:54am

Oh, and being able to hold your own for 60 seconds in a fight before starting to lose against a superior foe also isn't very much evidence at all or of any remarkable value.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-05-27 06:06am

Gandalf wrote:
Lord of the Farce wrote:Shouldn't his reflexes be fast enough to see that coming though?
They can dodge bullets, the fist wasn't that fast.
AFAIK, other than for special cases, they can't apply the same speed for bullet dodging to hand-to-hand.

How would it be?, wouldn't the agent program just see it as something coming at it fast?[/quote]

Hey, don't ask me. I didn't program the abilities and limits of the Agents, I'm just pointing out what seems to be a display of part of the "rules that applies to everything in the Matrix, even Agents" (or something like that, don't expect me to pull something from the vague depth of my memory correctly).

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-05-27 08:13am

Lord of the Farce wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
Lord of the Farce wrote: AFAIK, other than for special cases, they can't apply the same speed for bullet dodging to hand-to-hand.
How would it be?, wouldn't the agent program just see it as something coming at it fast?
Hey, don't ask me. I didn't program the abilities and limits of the Agents, I'm just pointing out what seems to be a display of part of the "rules that applies to everything in the Matrix, even Agents" (or something like that, don't expect me to pull something from the vague depth of my memory correctly).

I just think it that if the agents can move to the extent that bullets don't hit them and the such, that they would have the reflexes to dodge a fist from a rogue program.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-05-27 09:05am

Gandalf wrote:I just think it that if the agents can move to the extent that bullets don't hit them and the such, that they would have the reflexes to dodge a fist from a rogue program.

Maybe the Agents dodge bullets by running a "Dodgebullets.EXE" or something like that, rather then being just really fast.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-05-27 09:19am

Smith has thus far assimilated one Agent who he caught by surprise.

Smith thus far still retains the abilities of a normal 'pre-Neo' agent (as per 'Enter the Matrix')

Smith is also a cheap whore in that game since you can hardly come within three feet of the guy without him picking you up and chucking you.

However while Smith clones may not be as fast as Reloaded Era agents apperantly being unplugged and not dependant on a host body has toughened him up a bit as he holds up a lot better under poundings from Neo than the other Agents did, and he can take three direct hits from a 40mm GL to put down (though I don't know how many it takes for a normal Agent so that may not mean anything).

Enricko · Post by **Enricko** » 2003-05-27 09:29am

Sir Sirius wrote:
Gandalf wrote:I just think it that if the agents can move to the extent that bullets don't hit them and the such, that they would have the reflexes to dodge a fist from a rogue program.
Maybe the Agents dodge bullets by running a "Dodgebullets.EXE" or something like that, rather then being just really fast.

Okay, this is a long shot, but maybe the dodge-bullets-but-not-fists is due to the fact that when you're dodging bullet, it's only an inaminated piece of simulated lead. When you're in a fist-fight, you're directly in contact with another avatar...

Agents seem to his human avatar to incarnate themselves, so they have limits.

Now, I have a question: If you can program certain object in the Matrix to do different things (the red pill is an autotracking device, the chocolate cake sends orgamic waves, etc), why don't program a 9mm Beretta or a Uzi to spit AT rockets?

DocMoriartty · Post by **DocMoriartty** » 2003-05-27 09:30am

Vympel wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:But Smith assimilated an Agent....
That's not really relevant- all he did was thrust his hand at him- it wasn't exactly a fight. The Agent simply wasn't expecting it.

All Smith did was poke his hand at him.

Maybe the agent did not see being poked as a threat. Also I always thought that a good portion of a Agents speed was a sort of precognition. They know where the bullets are because they are part of the program. Since Smith is completely outside the Matrix now program wise an Agents normal warning systems no longer fully help him.

This would explain how an agent cad dodge any bullet Neo shoots at him (in first Matrix for example) yet is too slow to dodge Neo's fists. The gun and bullets are part of the Matrix while Neo himself is outside the program.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-27 10:26am

Hethrir wrote:
neoolong wrote:Smith was only able to keep up with Neo through sheer numbers when they fough. In a one on one fight as of Reloaded, Neo would win...
See the Revelutions trailer. It appears Neo/Smith fight may be quite close.

Which is why I said as of Reloaded. We don't know if Smith will do anything in the meantime to upgrade himself.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-27 10:27am

Shroom Man 777 wrote:But Smith assimilated an Agent....

Anyway, how can you explain the 1 om 1 duel between Smith and neo in the Revolutions trailer? Perhaps Smith absorbed all the Agents and gained all their abilities and became uber......

For one thing I said Reloaded. We don't know where those numbers came from in the Rev. Trailer. It's much easier to just assimilate a bunch of normal people. Also, the new agents are hardly uber if Neo can still take on three and win.

And has been said, assimilating an agent in the way Smith did, isn't that much.

Darth_Shinji · Post by **Darth_Shinji** » 2003-05-27 11:16am

Wait a minute... A guy makes a opionion on what we see on the Rev trailer and its fan-wanking? Grow up.

Any way those Smiths did seem alot tougher than the upgraded Agents. Neo did not put one of those guys down for good.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-05-27 11:25am

Darth_Shinji wrote: Any way those Smiths did seem alot tougher than the upgraded Agents. Neo did not put one of those guys down for good.

Considering he was being swarmed, he wouldn't exactly have time to deliver a smackdown on each and every one- though he definitely aced a few with the signpost.

Also, even in the original Matrix where Neo sent Agent Smith flying with one kick, Smith still got up immediately. The same when Neo sent him hurtling into the roof right before the train ran him over.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-05-27 11:57am

If the Revolutions trailer is any indication, then there's going to be a climatic final battle between Smith and Neo.

Just like Luke and Vader, when you think about it. Even complete with an "I am your Father"(Or in Smith's case, "You are my Father") moment, in a roundabout way.

Of course, in their second fight in Reloaded, Scores of Smiths could only barely force Neo to withdraw. So apparently, Smith is going to get an upgrade somehow.

How does he do that? My guess is one of two things:

#1: He has the capacity to learn and grow. The mass battle against Neo was Smith's first battle against Neo since the first movie, so perhaps Shith, while better than he was at first(alone, he still did than he did the last time), was still underestimating how much better Neo was. He may improve himself before their next ones.

#2: What he assimilates, he can also absorb. Taking Agent Thompson may also improve his abilities.

Oh, there may be a third, but we don't know enough about the situation shown at the end of Reloaded. Neo is starting to manifest his Matrix Abilities outside the Matrix, and now there's a Smith outside as well. We'll have to see what unfolds.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-05-27 12:21pm

Lord of the Farce wrote:AFAIK, other than for special cases, they can't apply the same speed for bullet dodging to hand-to-hand.

Although, if you remember hte original movie, Agent Smith has this "pummeling" thing where his hand blurs and you can see around five instances of the hand at once; Neo did the same thing in the construct earlier in the movie.

Smith pummeled Neo near the end of the movie, although Neo survived it.

Death from the Sea · Post by **Death from the Sea** » 2003-05-27 12:36pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Maybe you should wait until the fucking movie comes out in November before you attempt to evaluate anything from it, especially when all you have now is less than a minute of footage from a bloody TEASER TRAILER...

Grow up, kid.
Fine fine, but it really did seem like an apocalyptic final battle for the fate of humanity...... it gave me that impression.

Ok, explain to me how the hell can a single Smith clone (or maybe it was Boss Smith) take on Neo for even a minute?

You are assuming that the Neo Vs. Smith fight in Revolutions does not involve the hundreds of other Smith copies lining the street in that scene, which I am sure it will once punches are thrown.
Smith is a great character but his program is inferior to the newer agents, Smiths one advantage that he has to make him possibly better is that he can copy himself. Smiths durability did not exceed that of the newer agents.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-05-27 01:15pm

I think it's to be expected there'll be one big mano-a-mano fight between Smith and Neo near the end of Revolutions, sort of a settle it now like Western duel.

From the teaser at least, you see the other Smiths standing and watching one original Smith fight Neo, I sure hope it goes that way, having another Burly Brawl won't be anywhere near as good.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-27 01:22pm

Hethrir wrote:
neoolong wrote:Smith was only able to keep up with Neo through sheer numbers when they fough. In a one on one fight as of Reloaded, Neo would win...
See the Revelutions trailer. It appears Neo/Smith fight may be quite close.

Who cares? What he said is true. The Smiths were crap in Reloaded and the individual Agent was far better than the average Smith.

Whether he gets better somehow or whatnot in Revolutions is a red herring.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-27 01:29pm

Gandalf wrote:I just think it that if the agents can move to the extent that bullets don't hit them and the such, that they would have the reflexes to dodge a fist from a rogue program.

Bullet-dodging is really slowing the bullets and everything down--not moving really quickly.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-27 01:31pm

SylasGaunt wrote:However while Smith clones may not be as fast as Reloaded Era agents apperantly being unplugged and not dependant on a host body has toughened him up a bit as he holds up a lot better under poundings from Neo than the other Agents did, and he can take three direct hits from a 40mm GL to put down (though I don't know how many it takes for a normal Agent so that may not mean anything).

Game mechanics blow for analysis.

But taking the first movie into consideration--a proximity hit should kill an Agent with a grenade. 9 mm bullets did.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-05-27 01:36pm

Are we sure the Smiths are unaltered pre Reloaded agents, because there were a couple of instances where he did not act like an agent. The secene were he copies onto that poor sap and uploads himself into Zion the two guys exchange dialogue where one says "I've never seen an agent like that before." or something to that effect. Trace says "He's not reading like an agent."

I wonder whether the Smiths are not "upgraded" in their own way somehow. Two held Neo down while Smith tried to copy him and I do believe that only a handful were put down by Neo in the fight, while he handed three agents their asses in a handful of minutes in an earlier scene.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-05-27 01:57pm

By process of being free I would imagine that Smith is no longer an agent and does what he wants. So he wouldn't read as an agent and wouldn't act like an agent, still following the orders of the machines, would act like.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-05-27 02:00pm

Stravo wrote:Are we sure the Smiths are unaltered pre Reloaded agents, because there were a couple of instances where he did not act like an agent. The secene were he copies onto that poor sap and uploads himself into Zion the two guys exchange dialogue where one says "I've never seen an agent like that before." or something to that effect. Trace says "He's not reading like an agent."

Already known; he cannot occupy random bodies like an Agent, and he is simply a powerful rogue program.

Stravo wrote:I wonder whether the Smiths are not "upgraded" in their own way somehow. Two held Neo down while Smith tried to copy him and I do believe that only a handful were put down by Neo in the fight, while he handed three agents their asses in a handful of minutes in an earlier scene.

Neo was suprised and weakened by the attempted assimilation--notice he couldn't even move while until he completely forced the assimilation from his body. Once he broke free--he more readily kicked ass than he had with the upgraded Agents.

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2003-05-27 02:52pm

Illuminatus Primus wrote:
Gandalf wrote:I just think it that if the agents can move to the extent that bullets don't hit them and the such, that they would have the reflexes to dodge a fist from a rogue program.
Bullet-dodging is really slowing the bullets and everything down--not moving really quickly.

This is such a crock of shit, its based on light illunination and the speed of helicopter rotors, lol
this is a fine case of OVER examination where someone is so blind, that they are taking the movie out of context.

So when Johnson was on the top of the hood, ,and morph emptied an entire clip at him, why didn't see see the bullets if they slowed down? He was only 3 feet away, he would have had to slow those bullets down to a snails pace

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-05-27 03:08pm

Omega-13 wrote: This is such a crock of shit, its based on light illunination and the speed of helicopter rotors, lol
this is a fine case of OVER examination where someone is so blind, that they are taking the movie out of context.

So when Johnson was on the top of the hood, ,and morph emptied an entire clip at him, why didn't see see the bullets if they slowed down? He was only 3 feet away, he would have had to slow those bullets down to a snails pace

I don’t even know what damn rotors people are talking about. In the Matrix when we see the agent dodge bullets the helo rotors are not even turning, while the later minigun action has no bullet dodging at all and the only time we see the rotors is just slow motion.

Omega-13 · Post by **Omega-13** » 2003-05-27 03:11pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
Omega-13 wrote: This is such a crock of shit, its based on light illunination and the speed of helicopter rotors, lol
this is a fine case of OVER examination where someone is so blind, that they are taking the movie out of context.

So when Johnson was on the top of the hood, ,and morph emptied an entire clip at him, why didn't see see the bullets if they slowed down? He was only 3 feet away, he would have had to slow those bullets down to a snails pace
I don’t even know what damn rotors people are talking about. In the Matrix when we see the agent dodge bullets the helo rotors are not even turning, while the later minigun action has no bullet dodging at all and the only time we see the rotors is just slow motion.

Basically they are OVER analysing, to the ninth degree,
These agents seem to have a built in avoidance system for incoming rounds, the newer agents seem to be much faster, ie. Johnson on the car

Infact if he would have been in the room in Matrix the first movie, he would have easily dodged the minigun rounds,