EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

SF: discuss futuristic sci-fi series, ideas, and crossovers.

Moderator: NecronLord

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-12 03:05pm

One of the noticeable things about StarCraft 2 aesthetic - while I haven't played Heart of the Swarm or Legacy of the Void nonetheless you can still see it - is how... hulked out everything is. The Marines are bigger, the Hydralisks are huger, the Ultralisks are the size of freaking mountains compared to how in the Brood War cinematic they were just a few times huger than Goliaths. On the surface this might just be Metzenification, a medical syndrome when enormous shoulder pads construct bloodflow to the head and leads to disproportionate enlargement of some parts. Kind of like Ultimate Warrior's Disease when tassels around the arms results in altered circulation in the rocket fuel being loaded into the spaceship, leading to controls being seized to take planes into nose dives into parts unknown.

Hoak Hogan

ANYWAY... some of this can be rationalized in-universe, in kayfabe. The sudden sympathy for Kerrigan can't be, though. That's just creative bankruptcy. But let's try to salvage the other things.

The Zerg settled on Aiur and Char, they've already transitioned from the "leaving Zerus, traversing halfway across the galaxy to seek the Protoss" phase. They are no longer nomadic.

Yes, they've always assimilated species, but does the assimilation process entail gobbling down ALL members of a species or just some members, enough to get the genetic template while the rest of the population can persist un-infested? Or do the Zerg go Tyrannid-like, consuming the entire biospheres of the worlds they've touched? Or do they leave behind "legacy" Zergforms (since in Heart of the Swarm there are still Zerg left on Zerus, perhaps also in other Zerg-touched places)?

Anyway, we all know the Zerg have buffets to presumably fuel their next forays, whether or not entire worlds are depleted in that process. But now that they've stopped traveling, I propose that spare energy or the excess biomass or nutrients or metabolic surplus whatever, are now used to roid up the hydralisks and ultralisks. Now we've got those Leviathan creatures. Perhaps some of these enormous monstrosos were always there, lurking in the "heart of the Swarm" for centuries... or perhaps they were just recently grown? Or both - recently reactivated due to the metabolic surplus due to the stationary/static state of the Swarm, unlike their prior "From Zerus With Love" state of transit that's metabolically intense, leading to the "standby mode" of larger more metabolically-intense assets like Leviathans. Especially if combat was relatively light in the transit state, if the Zerg didn't have to fend off operational battlecruisers or arriving carriers (though they definitely did have combat, presumably with "inferior" technological civilizations that they didn't bother to assimilate... nonetheless these encounters led them to optimize their Scourges and Mutualisks and such for anti-ship warfare, the Guardians for anti-surface strike roles, etc.).

The whole question of whether the Zerg eat everything or leave bits uneaten also connect to how despite what one would expect... the Zerg didn't eat all of Terrankind! Yes, they consumed Chau Sara. Mar Sara might've been gobbled up, but the Protoss preempted whatever plans there were. The Zerg settled in Char, which was barely populated (there were outposts there?). But Antiga Prime and Tarsonis were only eaten because Mengsk deployed psi-emitters there. So while the Zerg did settle in the Koprulu Zone, nonetheless a LOT of Terran space was untouched. The Zerg obviously prioritized attacking the Protoss. Terranspace was just a staging ground for their jump to Aiur.

Did the Protoss occupy worlds beyond Aiur? We know that there WAS a larger Protoss empire...

(TO BE CONTINUED)
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-12 04:31pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Did the Protoss occupy worlds beyond Aiur? We know that there WAS a larger Protoss empire...

(TO BE CONTINUED)


And we know it contracted, due to de-militarization, due to the civil war from the Dark Templar schism, etc. We know that the Protoss by the "current" time had a pseudo-protectorate thing looking over lesser species, perhaps without the species' knowledge. Benevolent prime directive style... until of course the Zerg appeared and the Conclave authorized the planetkillings...

One wonders if that was a Zerg ruse to draw out the Protoss and then somehow find out the location of Aiur. And that's exactly what happened. If it weren't for Tassadar's error (Zeratul's assassination of a Cerebrate enabling the Overmind to locate Aiur), the Zerg search for the Protoss world might've taken longer. Though Aiur IS within the vicinity of Terran space, so it would not have taken too long. But, of course, the Terrans were in the K Sector for quite some time and they never knew the Protoss was there - so they were hidden, but they weren't exactly far. It didn't take the UED too long to go to Aiur either.

ANYWAY these projections on Zerg developments may have been different if the Overmind hadn't been slain. Who knows what would've happened if it finished its great project, merging the Protoss and the Zerg's purity of form and purity of essence. Would it have continued its great journey? Stayed and multiplied to devour the universe? Followed the Xel'Naga or Amon or whatever's orders because of lazy Metzen writing and the typical "greater threat that all must unite against" dullness? Or somehow rebelled against Amon, as the Overmind supposedly planned with Kerrigan (oh the humans are SO DIFFERENT and will HOLD THE KEY to defying the GREATER THREAT - yawn)? Would the Zerg have ascended and then shift to the ASTRAL PLANE to do METAPHYSICAL BATTLE?

Whatever.

ANYWAY...

Aside from the steroidification of the hydralisk and the ultralisk, the coming of the Leviathans and other HUEGings... we also see the Queens' transition from the flying brood-spawning creatures into these bulky crawling terrestrial abominations. It fits the fluff of the Queens being these mid-level psi-touched nodes who care for hive larvae, with psionic capabilities and "rank" higher than the Overlords but lower than the Cerebrates. Lieutenants to the Cerebrates' generals to the Overmind's supreme leadership...

AND Kerrigan needed these Queens to replace the Cerebrates. She probably couldn't replicate the Overmind's divine feat of creating the Cerebrates that were metaphysically bonded to it while nonetheless possessing independent intellects. But she just steroidified and uplifted these already capable lieutenants of the swarm. And that had similar effects... though somehow, someway she seems to be more of a control freak than the Overmind. The Cerebrates seemed to have more independence and cleverness IMO.

These are some rationalizations in the changes we see in the Zerg.

UP NEXT: Rationalizations on the Terran Dominion's developments. Roughly in a similar line, their optimization for all out warfare, survival against existential threats, Korhal centralization, ironic increased authoritarianism compared to the Confederacy's looser approach (that was nonetheless tyrannical) that just got by through deploying Marines to crush fringe world yokels and/or nuking rebelling colonies (ala Korhal).
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28658
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-05-12 06:10pm

I like this; it explains a certain amount of shift in Zerg behavior without requiring blatant retcons.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-12 06:46pm

Simon_Jester wrote:I like this; it explains a certain amount of shift in Zerg behavior without requiring blatant retcons.


Thanks.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:UP NEXT: Rationalizations on the Terran Dominion's developments. Roughly in a similar line, their optimization for all out warfare, survival against existential threats, Korhal centralization, ironic increased authoritarianism compared to the Confederacy's looser approach (that was nonetheless tyrannical) that just got by through deploying Marines to crush fringe world yokels and/or nuking rebelling colonies (ala Korhal).


Hurm. I think this actually sums up what the developments were. I don't think there's much more to it than that.

I do wonder if the rapid Coruscantification of Korhal can just be explained due to Mengskist authoritarianism and centralization leading to this weird ass Stalin-style industrialization of the planet, utilizing all the resources relocated to the Dominion throneworld after the Confederacy's disintegration, the exodus to un-infested worlds...

Could they have appropriated some off-screen UED development tech? Like, what if aside from using a Special Forces-heavy operation to use the Dominion and ex-Confed's forces against the natives (to explain why Stukov and DuGalle weren't commanding the Expeditionary Force from within Luna-class or Mars-class or Earthican Star Destroyers or whatever), they also had logistics vessels full of deployable infrastructure? They DID set up shop fairly quick on Char...

And even without the UED, perhaps even civilian Terran tech can also easily just lift-off and land somewhere else? Imagine all of those outlying worlds, colonies, moons around Tarsonis and the Sara system, all around Antiga, like Antiga Secundus or whatever that were next door to Prime's gobbling, all these folks just taking off to the FORTRESS KORHAL system!

EVERYTHING becomes Siege Mode! Yes. The great Confederacy project, which I presume was this widely distributed colonization effort to settle all sorts of fringe worlds as fast as possible - hence all these allusions to guild wars, pacifications, brushfires, whatnot - gets reversed and redirected entirely to Korhal. Or mostly to Korhal. So after this consolidation and super-fortification, North Koreahal ends up slowly re-expanding. When Mengsk sees that Kerrigan ain't gonna murder everyone just yet (for some reason).

This is harder to satisfactorily explain than the Zerg because one didn't get the impression that the Terrans had this level of industrial capability...

Anyway, like the steroidified hydralisks, now we also see Terran Marines become walking tanks. It's because Metzen wanted huge shoulderpads and because everyone wanted to borrow Iron Man aesthetics. But in-universe let's assume that this RUNAWAY DEFENSE BUDGET meant that the Marine couldn't just be "space suit with gun + drugs" anymore...
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

CetaMan
Redshirt
Posts: 15
Joined: 2015-08-28 02:44am

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby CetaMan » 2017-05-15 07:56pm

StarCraft is rather interesting to delve into.

The steroidization of zerg can be attributed out-of-universe by Samewise's art style shaping the direction the 3d modelers went in. In universe I feel it has more military purposes. Pre-terran/protoss contact zerg were likely more akin to locusts, finding and devouring worlds and maybe taking 1 species as a notable strain. Probably more microorganisms get taken as building symbionts, creep stuff or weapon components or other less-visible uses. Likely the zerg never had to fight an enemy that could do conceivable damage to their troops on the ground to the point of damaging the costs. Say if your SC2 style zergling is about 60% more biomass, but a marine can only kill 2 rather then 4 compared to the skinny-as-fuck SC1 style zerglings it is more worth it in a military sense, given that if they succeed in overrunning the planet they can reclaim the biomass easier. Stronger individuals to not strain the control of queens, infested commanders and overlords + Kerrigan, rather then the direct queen(?)-overlord-cerebrate-overmind hierarchy of before.

Forced adaption to battlefield conditions is also likely, the new hydralisk with more durable carapace and much better melee capability could be seen as a direct response to protoss zealots. The overdeveloped head crest on the SC2-style/post great-war ultralisks is likely a direct response to siege tanks (supported by the field guide, which sates that early ultralisks were easily topple able by artillery), able to withstand multiple siege-mode shell hits rather then having the shots land on the back and thus more vulnerable legs.

Shroom Man 777 wrote:And even without the UED, perhaps even civilian Terran tech can also easily just lift-off and land somewhere else? Imagine all of those outlying worlds, colonies, moons around Tarsonis and the Sara system, all around Antiga, like Antiga Secundus or whatever that were next door to Prime's gobbling, all these folks just taking off to the FORTRESS KORHAL system!


Lots of the civilian structure models in sc2 (at least the colonist ones) have the landing legs and thrusters, so its entirely possible.

On a more terran-related notice about the marine armor. While technically a retcon it is indicated by the comics that the SC2-style marine armor exists during SC1 as the CMC-400, worn by Jim Raynor in his Black and Skull armor suit. More likely a suit developed as a point of fighting renegade confederate units (alpha squadron defected easily enough) rather then KMC units with crappier armor (Ripper infantry), or colonials with outdated combat spacesuits (in-universe the Pressurized Power Suit, or earlier CMC-200). Terran armor is very screwed up and inconsistent from appearance-to appearance.

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-15 08:04pm

CetaMan wrote:StarCraft is rather interesting to delve into.

The steroidization of zerg can be attributed out-of-universe by Samewise's art style shaping the direction the 3d modelers went in. In universe I feel it has more military purposes. Pre-terran/protoss contact zerg were likely more akin to locusts, finding and devouring worlds and maybe taking 1 species as a notable strain. Probably more microorganisms get taken as building symbionts, creep stuff or weapon components or other less-visible uses. Likely the zerg never had to fight an enemy that could do conceivable damage to their troops on the ground to the point of damaging the costs. Say if your SC2 style zergling is about 60% more biomass, but a marine can only kill 2 rather then 4 compared to the skinny-as-fuck SC1 style zerglings it is more worth it in a military sense, given that if they succeed in overrunning the planet they can reclaim the biomass easier. Stronger individuals to not strain the control of queens, infested commanders and overlords + Kerrigan, rather then the direct queen(?)-overlord-cerebrate-overmind hierarchy of before.

Forced adaption to battlefield conditions is also likely, the new hydralisk with more durable carapace and much better melee capability could be seen as a direct response to protoss zealots. The overdeveloped head crest on the SC2-style/post great-war ultralisks is likely a direct response to siege tanks (supported by the field guide, which sates that early ultralisks were easily topple able by artillery), able to withstand multiple siege-mode shell hits rather then having the shots land on the back and thus more vulnerable legs.


I agree... the protracted combat of the Great War and onwards situation made the Zerg strains bulk up. It's part and parcel of their new stationary state, as opposed to their constant "locust-like" travel as you put it.

Though I think if the Overmind hadn't been killed, if the Zerg hadn't been disrupted and if post-Brood War Kerrigan didn't decide to spare her opponents in a twisted mercy... the Zerg could've actually killed everyone then and there, without even having to steroidify in the first place!

On a more terran-related notice about the marine armor. While technically a retcon it is indicated by the comics that the SC2-style marine armor exists during SC1 as the CMC-400, worn by Jim Raynor in his Black and Skull armor suit. More likely a suit developed as a point of fighting renegade confederate units (alpha squadron defected easily enough) rather then KMC units with crappier armor (Ripper infantry), or colonials with outdated combat spacesuits (in-universe the Pressurized Power Suit, or earlier CMC-200). Terran armor is very screwed up and inconsistent from appearance-to appearance.


Huh...

Maybe the neater exteriors of the armor are like just modifications and the guts of the beefier Marine armor is still the Confederacy-era cool ass CMC-400. Especially if the UED didn't bother bringing hordes of Earth-tech infantry armor since if most of the UED's troops were local turncoats (possibly supported by UED spec ops who would appear in-game as Ghosts for mechanics sake... though without the psychic powers and brainwashing fluff), a lot of the Marine armor "developments" might be from UEDtech "applique" gear, tacticool add ons, PICATINNY RAILS... and post-UED developments. All bolted onto the "good enough" Confed-era armor.

Kind of like how M4s and tacticool ARs and shit are still basically Eugene Stoner's Vietnam-era rifle.
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

CetaMan
Redshirt
Posts: 15
Joined: 2015-08-28 02:44am

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby CetaMan » 2017-05-16 12:26am

Terran armor naming schemes and designs have been horribly butchered throughout time. Especially the marine armor. The SC1 Cinematic, SC1 Ingame, and SC2 Marines are all different in terms of the armor they wear. At least the SC1 Development one was labeled as the PPS. Considering that CMC 200, 300 and 400 are thrown throughout the 3. The SC2 Style is called a 300 or 400 depending on the source. The SC1 image and cinematic styles are labeled as 200 or 300 depending on source. But the only picture labled as a definitive CMC 400 is Raynor's armor, which is the SC2 style - Hence its association. I view the Ingame sprite as the CMC-300, based on the visual properties, it sits somewhat between the other two in terms of recognisable features. The SC1 cinematic piece, with its similarities to the PPS and odd codpiece (caused by the cinematics being made pre final art stage) likely fits the CMC 200. Honestly the CMC 200/300 are impossible to actually tell, as the official stuff is a discombobulated mess. One feature arguably used as a distinguishing factor is the boots, either the rounded or squared versions, all SC2 art uses the rounded ones.

The firebat has a lesser but similar issue, both the original CMC-200/300 derived SC1 suit and the proto-marauder SC2 suit are called the CMC 660, but the SC64 guide actually calls the marine version the CMC-600. One of the marauder suits variants actually mentions being a variant of the CMC-660, which supports the Big Hulking firebat suit that would be used as the basis for the marauder as the CMC-660, and the marine with tanks and wrist flamers as the separate CMC-600.

Somewhat confusing this is the CMC-230 series, a pre-SC1 suit pair of the XE (marine) and XF (Firebat), variants of the respective suit types with jetpacks equipped.

The UED design is probably a modified 200 or 300 used for colonial duties, seen during Stukov's funeral scene and the newscasts

There are other unnamed CMC variants as well, the Cerberus/War Pigs/Elite Marine version that serves as the SC2 mercenary version, some modified jobs seen throughout comics, the representation of either a 300 or 200 in the SC:Ghost marine (has squared boots). Some interesting mods in comics also, such as shoulder mounted anti-vehicle missile pods that Connor Ward uses in Heavens Devils, though the armor their squad wears is a pretty weird mish-mash. Theres also the weird re-do that' serves as the umojan suit, which while outwardly similar has very different details.

User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 36996
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2017-05-16 06:37pm

The Protoss seemed like they might have patrolled a large Empire, but never populated it all that much.

As for Marine armor, it seems reasonable that a literal redneck space confederacy might not have all that uniform of equipment and standards, just whatever each local place can produce or has decided to produce.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-17 11:19am

Sea Skimmer wrote:The Protoss seemed like they might have patrolled a large Empire, but never populated it all that much.


Yeah, there were mentions in SC2 that their vaster empire contracted - perhaps in part due to the schism that caused the Dark Templar, or perhaps due to the Protoss abandoning expansionism and deciding to treat "their" territory as protectorates that they benignly and discreetly guard perhaps without the local species/civilizations' awareness (the Terrans might've been seen as one of these things...). The new Protoss tech in SC2 are usually either Dark Templar-Khalai hybrid newtech or ANCIENT PROTOSS SECRET tech that they obtained from off-Aiur colony stockpiles, like old wargear that was just put into storage for future contingencies because the Protoss decided they were too enlightened for such violent ways or something. It's obviously contrived but in a way it's not TOO divergent from the older fluff...

As for Marine armor, it seems reasonable that a literal redneck space confederacy might not have all that uniform of equipment and standards, just whatever each local place can produce or has decided to produce.


Uh huh and futuretech might make it so that all these ramshackle gears are somehow universally compatible! :D
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

User avatar
Guardsman Bass
Cowardly Codfish
Posts: 9227
Joined: 2002-07-07 12:01am
Location: Beneath the Deepest Sea

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Guardsman Bass » 2017-05-19 01:43am

It's got to be Dark Templar equipment and stuff after original Starcraft. The Protoss in the original game are super-centralized, literally importing and powering everything from Aiur. They should have lost most of their ability to replicate their technology when the Zerg canonically killed over 70% of the Protoss on Aiur, unless large numbers of them started evacuating once the Zerg first showed up.

Terran population numbers have basically never made sense unless you assume they had artificial wombs or were having 10 kids per woman for the 200 years or so between arrival and the events of the first game went down, although the Korhal stuff kind of works once you accept that. Terrans can build lots of shit quickly from raw materials and energy on site, so it's not a stretch that they threw up a ton of fabricated cities really quickly on Korhal once the Terran Dominion formed.
“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”
-Jean-Luc Picard


"Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them."
-Margaret Atwood

Simon_Jester
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 28658
Joined: 2009-05-23 07:29pm

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Simon_Jester » 2017-05-19 12:12pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:As for Marine armor, it seems reasonable that a literal redneck space confederacy might not have all that uniform of equipment and standards, just whatever each local place can produce or has decided to produce.
Uh huh and futuretech might make it so that all these ramshackle gears are somehow universally compatible! :D
Alternatively, they're not universally compatible, and this is why you can't even deploy a lot of Terran equipment without dedicated manufacturing facilities on site. The reason you actually need dedicated armory/factory/machine shop buildings in a Terran base is because your armorers need a ridiculous amount of dedicated heavy equipment to make everything fit.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-19 01:46pm

Simon_Jester wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:
Sea Skimmer wrote:As for Marine armor, it seems reasonable that a literal redneck space confederacy might not have all that uniform of equipment and standards, just whatever each local place can produce or has decided to produce.
Uh huh and futuretech might make it so that all these ramshackle gears are somehow universally compatible! :D
Alternatively, they're not universally compatible, and this is why you can't even deploy a lot of Terran equipment without dedicated manufacturing facilities on site. The reason you actually need dedicated armory/factory/machine shop buildings in a Terran base is because your armorers need a ridiculous amount of dedicated heavy equipment to make everything fit.


Hmmm on-site customization? Avatar-style fabricators? AND like who wants to send supplies from Tarsonis and across K-Sector space for Edmund Duke's patrol forces stickbeating some fringe world yokels?
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

CetaMan
Redshirt
Posts: 15
Joined: 2015-08-28 02:44am

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby CetaMan » 2017-05-19 07:30pm

The switching from individual add-ons to the Tech Lab/Reactor/Tech Reactor system under the dominion makes more sense then as a way to standardise available equipment based on local facilities. Unlike confederate stuff which had everthing from top-of-the-line siege tanks at one base to jeeps and the artillery from "the Ambush" cinematic.

User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 36996
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2017-05-19 09:34pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Hmmm on-site customization? Avatar-style fabricators? AND like who wants to send supplies from Tarsonis and across K-Sector space for Edmund Duke's patrol forces stickbeating some fringe world yokels?


I was thinking more like a sewing machine and a soldering iron beside a repair ship scale foundry operation... If you had common plugs and power standards nothing would stop all kinds of swaping. Knightly armor tended to be like this after all, the inner pieces would mount the outer pieces and only certain attachment points had to have common locations. Worth pointing out how say, the famous standard Sherman tank, actually had like six major variants that did not all take the same fuel, without considering the ones with completely different suspension and guns or 370 different engineering variants. Standards of standard may vary.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-20 09:44am

SUPER PICATINNYS!

We do see the whole Marine kitting process in the ABOUT DAMN TIME trailer with Finley. A combination of fabricators, cryo, steroid and meth injectors and hydraulic-actuated sewing machines and solderings and such!
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

CetaMan
Redshirt
Posts: 15
Joined: 2015-08-28 02:44am

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby CetaMan » 2017-05-20 11:00pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:SUPER PICATINNYS!

We do see the whole Marine kitting process in the ABOUT DAMN TIME trailer with Finley. A combination of fabricators, cryo, steroid and meth injectors and hydraulic-actuated sewing machines and solderings and such!


I'm not entirely sure about Typhus's suit process, considering his was an unremovable prison whereas most are supposed to be doable in a few minutes.

User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 36996
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2017-05-21 09:27pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:SUPER PICATINNYS!


Funny enough NATO is trying to agree on that right now, a spec for a common powered version of that rail. You can buy ones right now but its all proprietary commercial stuff with no standard.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956

User avatar
Imperial528
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1630
Joined: 2010-05-03 06:19pm
Location: New England

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Imperial528 » 2017-05-22 12:09am

CetaMan wrote:
Shroom Man 777 wrote:SUPER PICATINNYS!

We do see the whole Marine kitting process in the ABOUT DAMN TIME trailer with Finley. A combination of fabricators, cryo, steroid and meth injectors and hydraulic-actuated sewing machines and solderings and such!


I'm not entirely sure about Typhus's suit process, considering his was an unremovable prison whereas most are supposed to be doable in a few minutes.


That may have been the purpose of the sheer number of welds involved; I imagine that for standard marine armor applications that equipment is probably only used to repair damaged suits.

CetaMan
Redshirt
Posts: 15
Joined: 2015-08-28 02:44am

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby CetaMan » 2017-05-24 01:01pm

Related to the repairs of damaged suits, do you think the medical nanobots/bullshit used by the medic would realistically have to repair the suit in order to retain combat effectiveness. This could also help explain why Hellbat receives the biological tag, complex robotics systems easily damageable and repairable by smaller nanobots (Though the lore blurb says expanding and re-forming matter, which makes sense for the riot shields)

The medivac is even more dubious, they CAN based on the field guide actually "heal" units from flight - laser scalpels and nanobots are mentioned, but how could his work, unless they essentially just spray a mist of nanobots at the unit at high speed while performing armor repair with laser-based tools?

User avatar
Shroom Man 777
FUCKING DICK-STABBER!
Posts: 20867
Joined: 2003-05-11 08:39am
Location: Bleeding breasts and stabbing dicks since 2003
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Shroom Man 777 » 2017-05-24 01:57pm

CetaMan wrote:Related to the repairs of damaged suits, do you think the medical nanobots/bullshit used by the medic would realistically have to repair the suit in order to retain combat effectiveness. This could also help explain why Hellbat receives the biological tag, complex robotics systems easily damageable and repairable by smaller nanobots (Though the lore blurb says expanding and re-forming matter, which makes sense for the riot shields)

The medivac is even more dubious, they CAN based on the field guide actually "heal" units from flight - laser scalpels and nanobots are mentioned, but how could his work, unless they essentially just spray a mist of nanobots at the unit at high speed while performing armor repair with laser-based tools?


Nano compound smart-matter Band Aids that can also apply to the exteriors of infantry armor? Outer layer solidifies/coagulates into this crusty thing upon exposure to vacuum or space-cold, sealing it off, whereas the parts exposed to warmth and biological tissue start treating the injuries?

I do like the whacky idea of healing nanites being dumped on infantry formations by vessels, like how aircraft drop water on bushfires. :lol:
Image Image Image
shroom is a lovely boy and i wont hear a bad word against him - LUSY-CHAN!
Shit! Man, I didn't think of that! It took Shroom to properly interpret the screams of dying people :D - PeZook
Shroom, I read out the stuff you write about us. You are an endless supply of morale down here. :p - an OWS street medic
Pink Sugar Heart Attack!

User avatar
Sea Skimmer
Yankee Capitalist Air Pirate
Posts: 36996
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:49pm
Location: Passchendaele City, HAB
Contact:

Re: EVOLUTION COMPLETE! - musings on StarCraft stuff

Postby Sea Skimmer » 2017-05-24 03:00pm

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Nano compound smart-matter Band Aids that can also apply to the exteriors of infantry armor? Outer layer solidifies/coagulates into this crusty thing upon exposure to vacuum or space-cold, sealing it off, whereas the parts exposed to warmth and biological tissue start treating the injuries?


I dunno about the treating the wounded part, though the Army plan for a chest wound compressing internal foam injector is CLOSE in a lot of ways, in terms of accomplishing something we can't dream of doing otherwise right now, but for repair of composites some pretty band aid like materials do exist depending on what you mean. The problem is right now they all need high temperature cures to become integral repairs in strength, the same temperature the original composite did. That means its a repair team kind of job, though plausible in the field. This is already how composite helicopters would be repaired. You don't gap fill, you bandage over the holes. Its not out of the question that this baking will not be required in the near future, let alone 2,400+.

Also armor prototypes now exist that really do self heal, its not that new an idea really, just not perfected as an art. The main reason composite armor fails from multiple hits is the layers debond, and the more they debond the more they want too like anything else. Prime example of that is a ceramic tile being knocked off its fiberglass , or in the future carbon nanotube or graphene, backing layer. The counter to that is literally nano capsules of adhesive mixed into the original adhesive and rendered shock sensitive rather then temperature sensitive through nanotech chemistry.

So any shock that knocks the armor apart will also release the glue action, and a short term later most of the damage will be repaired. Though obviously not any actual holes, but other solutions exist for that since they should be small. Or else you got hit by an artillery shell and this is all irrelevant. Won't beat a steel on steel MBT hull for withstanding that kind of threat.


I do like the whacky idea of healing nanites being dumped on infantry formations by vessels, like how aircraft drop water on bushfires. :lol:


More reasonably you could also drop some kind of low end robotic swarm that brings the required repair materials and focuses in on obvious damage using visual and ultrasounding sensors. You wouldn't want these robots with you full time because they'd have some actual bulk and be vulnerable to enemy fire, at least if they are big enough to carry a serious amount of repair material. Also whole pints of whole blood to drain into the wounded man constantly until he can safely reach a mobile blood trailer. Blood would be premixed with meth and space drugs naturally.
"This cult of special forces is as sensible as to form a Royal Corps of Tree Climbers and say that no soldier who does not wear its green hat with a bunch of oak leaves stuck in it should be expected to climb a tree"
— Field Marshal William Slim 1956


Return to “Science Fiction”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests