Doctor Who Asylum of the Daleks [spoilers]

[The Cooler King]

I still can't get my head around the plot holes with the planetary forcefield.
A crashing civilian ship can get through but Dalek missiles can't? They can 'beam' the Doctor and Co down but can't shoot down some big boom devices?

It was worth noting that whoever chained the Daleks up really sucked at it. They're all damaged, lacking in power or whatever and those heavy chains slip right off like rationality off a republican presidential candidate.

The Doctor, at the very beginning, was an idiot. He goes to Skaro (which is somehow back) has the talk with the woman and falls into that trap like a complete and utter amateur.

My wife (who isn't a Who fan) decided to watch it with me. After the first few Daleks broke their chains, she looked at me disgustedly and said, "What's the point of chaining them up, then?" She then decided that her time would be better spent reading.

[Scrib]

Yeah, I couldn't figure out why they called him "/thePredator" when they already had "The Oncoming Storm"

It doesn't even fit as well.

Everything else has been discussed already in regards to plot points, I would just like to point out my dislike for Amy. It bears repeating. Her comparing giving up Rory to "waiting outside a box" (yes she did say this) is just idiotic. I get that it was an emotional moment but if you don't buy into her character it comes off as more whiny-ness and unlike the whining in The Girl Who Waited it's not justified.

I don't want to have a meta-discussion here but her divorce was also contrived as all fuck. Did she tell the Doctor? Because the man has a fucking time machine. This shouldn't be that big an issue. Either way it's one of those silly plots that's designed to break people up while leaving them both likable, maximum angst for minimum sacrifice and all. It fails miserably and ends up leaving one party looking stupid (surrogates or adoption don't cross your mind?) and more than a little insecure.

Oswin was saved by her final scene. I'm really not looking forward to having her as the companion because I hate this River Song-esque Mary Sue-ishness. If it's toned down in the rest of her episodes (and there's no reason it shouldn't be) then it might be bearable, but otherwise...meh. I hate that bubbly persona for some reason. I can't even say why because I'm fine with The Doctor, who has it worse than anyone else but I was annoyed by her pretty quickly.


As for the huge Deus Ex Machina:I've always felt that Moffat wrote himself into a hole with the death of the Doctor and would have to resort to nonsense like this. But this goes above and beyond making them think that the Doctor is dead, hoo boy. This is just weird.

As for Moffat and his smacking of The Doctor for fighting evil: The Doctor deserves a smack or two sometimes. He's carries around a bunch of neanderthals (relative to him anyway) incapable of understanding the danger he's putting them in just so he isn't lonely,he's not an angel, but I think it gets crazy at times. This Doctor has a habit of going overboard but I'm not that sympathetic to the argument that he makes things worse.

[Captain Seafort]

By the way, what is it with the show and all the creation of Dalek-human hybrids? "Parting of the Ways" "Daleks in Manhattan" "The Stolen Earth" and now "Asylum of the Daleks." The Daleks are not complicated. They want to kill everything that isn't them, not make it Dalek. How is this hard?

*shrug* It's not exactly a sudden change of tactics. They've been doing that since The Dalek Invasion of Earth - their second appearance.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Oswin was saved by her final scene. I'm really not looking forward to having her as the companion because I hate this River Song-esque Mary Sue-ishness. If it's toned down in the rest of her episodes (and there's no reason it shouldn't be) then it might be bearable, but otherwise...meh. I hate that bubbly persona for some reason. I can't even say why because I'm fine with The Doctor, who has it worse than anyone else but I was annoyed by her pretty quickly.

I highly doubt Coleman will be playing Oswin as a companion, if only because she was presumably killed when the damn planet exploded. The companion shoudl be less Mary Sue ish because she's not a semi-Dalek wired into the pathweb or whatever. I'll reserve opinion until I have actually seen the character. The actress herself, well, she seems competent enough, and she's certainly pretty.

Which is annoying in it's own right. Haven't we had enough of the "Doctor travelling with naive cute girl" crap? It was getting old back in Pertwee's day which is why they made Sarah Jane so awesome. I yearn for a real companion again who can do more than just ask painfully obvious quiestions, get into trouble and become Deus Ex Machina's for the season finale.

Companions like Sarah Jane, Romana, Ace, heck even Peri managed to be helpful in some stories.

[Ahriman238]

Everything else has been discussed already in regards to plot points, I would just like to point out my dislike for Amy. It bears repeating. Her comparing giving up Rory to "waiting outside a box" (yes she did say this) is just idiotic. I get that it was an emotional moment but if you don't buy into her character it comes off as more whiny-ness and unlike the whining in The Girl Who Waited it's not justified.

That was especially jarring to me as well. I'm sure that wanting kids and being unable to give birth is a terrible and difficult thing to go through. Harder than 2,000 years of fighting, straining and most of all, of boredom? No. Nowhere in the same league, or even the same sport.

And she decided screaming at Rory and splitting up with him was easier than coming clean and dealing with it as a couple? Or asking the Doctor for assistance? Or even River? Why not just replace every appearance and bit of dialogue from Amy with a card saying "Amy Pond has learned absolutely nothing from her time and travels with the Doctor?"

[Vaporous]

And she decided screaming at Rory and splitting up with him was easier than coming clean and dealing with it as a couple? Or asking the Doctor for assistance? Or even River? Why not just replace every appearance and bit of dialogue from Amy with a card saying "Amy Pond has learned absolutely nothing from her time and travels with the Doctor?"

I don't like the stasis Amy and Rory seem to be stuck in, where they revert to being whiny and needing the Doctor on Amy's part and being insecure and dopey on Rory's.

Why is Rory still a gibbering doofus? He's in his third millenium, he didn't retain anything from whatever parts of that experience he can still remember after the universe reset? We know he remembers some stuff, or they wouldn't have had him threatening cybermen at sword point last season.

The whole "their marriage falls apart because of the infertility we're just now telling you about" thing didn't sell at all, served no purpose in the episode that I can see, and only existed so they could mix it with "Amy gets possessed again" to pad an episode that shouldn't have needed padding. You're on the Planet of Lost Toys Crazy Daleks, that's not danger enough? You can't stretch ten or fifteen minutes out of giving broken salt shakers amusing or threatening mental problems?

[Alkaloid]

It actually came up early in the sixth season, the Doctor asked him what it was like and how it didn't drive him mad, and he says he's got that part of his life walled off in his mind, he can access it if he wants/needs to but it's sort of implied he doesn't like what it might do to him.

[Broomstick]

He actually said that as far back as the Troughton years. You know, we've seen the Doctor with his granddaughter Susan, but never heard anything about Susan's parents, which makes me wonder if Something Terrible happened to them.

[Crazedwraith]

Err. Alkaloid was talking about Rory mentally walling off his last centurion days. Not the Doctor.

[Broomstick]

Right. Sorry, need more caffeine. However, the Doctor has said similar things about his family, about how he doesn't think about them, and it's clearly a painful subject to him.

And yes, Rory walls off the 2,000 years of waiting outside a box to keep sane, but equally clearly he can access those memories when the occasion calls for it.

Seems they've both developed a similar technique for dealing with Stuff.

[Scrib]

It actually came up early in the sixth season, the Doctor asked him what it was like and how it didn't drive him mad, and he says he's got that part of his life walled off in his mind, he can access it if he wants/needs to but it's sort of implied he doesn't like what it might do to him.

I would like to see a Rory with his memories fully restored. This goofy, innocent Rory is adorable and all ("Are these your eggs? Classic) but I think he'd be pretty scary if he had all those memories back. There's no way anyone can go 2000 years without becoming callous, at the very least. I don't think their relationship would survive it but I wouldn't mind for more awesome!Rory.

He was definitely harder in A Good Man Goes To War, but I wonder how much of that is just skills and a bit of his old personality seeping through instead of him fully remembering.

[Blayne]

Yeah, I couldn't figure out why they called him "/thePredator" when they already had "The Oncoming Storm"

That's easy, he's been taking down Daleks for unrelated things the last season or so; so they think he's hunting them.

What do people mean when they say Skaro came back? Was it mentioned this episode? They weren't on Skaro but a mothership so I'm confused, Skaro should be stuck in the Time War along with Galifrey.

[Lost Soal]

Yeah, I couldn't figure out why they called him "/thePredator" when they already had "The Oncoming Storm"

That's easy, he's been taking down Daleks for unrelated things the last season or so; so they think he's hunting them.

What do people mean when they say Skaro came back? Was it mentioned this episode? They weren't on Skaro but a mothership so I'm confused, Skaro should be stuck in the Time War along with Galifrey.

Skaro was right at the beginning, where he was ambushed. Frankly I don't see the problem with it, when you have a series centered around time travel there is nothing stopping their meeting from occuring at a point in time prior to its destruction. Unlike Gallifrey it never had any kind of temporal protection.

[Setesh]

Honestly not the best of episodes, a little more thought into why the Daleks fear the place and why it exists other than the beauty of hate. I think the biggest missed opportunity here is Oswin herself.

A converted human was okay but with the IC Daleks all being from past battles and her room being the farthest one in she should have been far older. It would have been far more poignant and in keeping with the setting if it was the last 'Human factor Dalek' from 'Evil of the Daleks', I know I'm one of the few here to have seen the whole thing before episodes got lost, but of the original Daleks he imbued with human mindsets the Daleks couldn't find one of them before the Doctor got them all killed off. It would have been far more effective if Oswin was one of these oldest of Daleks driven into insane delusions by centuries of imprisonment.

[jollyreaper]

The whole "We can't bring ourselves to kill you because your hatred is so beautiful" crap was a really lame way to explain why the Daleks don't just instantly kill the Doctor the second they have him, what with him being their greatest enemy of all time who repeatedly outsmarts them and annihilates them.

There's probably a trope for this and either Who or James Bond is the codifier. You are exactly right. And this is why Daleks are tough enemies to write. It's not like they have sneaky agendas and the Doctor could be more useful alive than dead. You let the Doctor talk, he kills you. Don't let the Doctor talk. For space nazis, they suck at killing.

I'd prefer the Daleks if they were masters of space but not time. Physically incapable of surviving time travel. They keep building empires and falling which is why that keep showing up over the history of the universe. This could also explain why some Daleks are intimately familiar with him and some only know him as almost forgotten legend.

Really, there just isn't a sensible way to put the Doctor in a room with them. It just makes Daleks look idiotic.

[Havok]

I really liked it.

The only thing I can't reconcile is how The Alaska got there. Everything else I can explain.

[jollyreaper]

Souffle Girl is a great character. No idea how they're going to bring back the actress since she's supposed to be the new companion. I think the same story could have been told without having to involve quite so many plot holes.

For example, the asylum could have not been any such thing, just a forgotten outpost from an old war. Therefore the Alaska stumbling upon it would have signified nothing. The Daleks could have gone mad from isolation. Why is the Doctor called in? Souffle Girl managed to activate some powerful Dalek beacon that he could notice as she was hacking the systems, trying to gain notice. She had no idea just how much pull that signal would have.

As for the pond breakup, that's a rubbish idea to begin with and so shouldn't have been included from the beginning.

Now why would they have made her a Dalek? Hard to say. Certainly you'd think they would have had some internal security settings in place. It sounds like Microsoft was in charge of security.

Regardless, the Doctor informers her of her state, Souffle Girl could have offered to sacrifice herself to hold off the remaining Daleks as he escapes, he manages to come back for her and pull her out in the nick of time because he feels no selfless sacrifice should go unrewarded. There's nothing left of her but a brain in a jar but he grows her a new body. Not really one for helping a traumatized human through emotional bits, he deposits her with the Ponds to reacquaint herself with humanity.

No Asylum, no Parliament of Funky Daleks, no human servitors with dalek chakras glowing on their foreheads, etc. Less mess.

I know people hate River but there's at least a reason for her to have a history with the Doctor, ability to fly the TARDIS, etc. Unless there's a big surprise, Souffle Girl is a bog-standard human and even a bright human isn't supposed to be on par with a Time Lord. Making her that gosh-darn smart smacks a bit of Mary Sue. Just being a Dalek shouldn't have given her privileged hacking abilities or turned her brain up to 11.

[Scrib]

I really liked it.

The only thing I can't reconcile is how The Alaska got there. Everything else I can explain.

Really? I have no idea how the Daleks got there, how they got a parliament, how they're all there. The latest Daleks should have tried to kill everyone and they should have meekly gone to their deaths. It would have been so much easier if they had simply kept the latest iteration of the Daleks without all the other models.

[NecronLord]

Really? I have no idea how the Daleks got there, how they got a parliament, how they're all there. The latest Daleks should have tried to kill everyone and they should have meekly gone to their deaths.

Negz. They killed the camouflage daleks because they were racially impure, not because of their travel machine. The camo-daleks came from Davros' fleet, and were grown from Davros' flesh, rather than Davros' original Kaled mutants. This is what made them impure, not their travel machines.

[Scrib]

Really? I have no idea how the Daleks got there, how they got a parliament, how they're all there. The latest Daleks should have tried to kill everyone and they should have meekly gone to their deaths.

Negz. They killed the camouflage daleks because they were racially impure, not because of their travel machine. The camo-daleks came from Davros' fleet, and were grown from Davros' flesh, rather than Davros' original Kaled mutants. This is what made them impure, not their travel machines.

Oh, but where did those other Daleks come from? It seems like they're all well accounted for. Every post-Time War dalek apart from those three Davros-daleks is dead. Where would they find an entire parliament's worth of Daleks made from the original Kaled flesh that the Victory Daleks wouldn't just kill? If they built them from scratch they would have looked like Victory Daleks(which shouldn't be possible because then the impurity of the last two Dalek empires don't make sense).

[Satori]

Which is annoying in it's own right. Haven't we had enough of the "Doctor travelling with naive cute girl" crap? It was getting old back in Pertwee's day which is why they made Sarah Jane so awesome. I yearn for a real companion again who can do more than just ask painfully obvious quiestions, get into trouble and become Deus Ex Machina's for the season finale.

Companions like Sarah Jane, Romana, Ace, heck even Peri managed to be helpful in some stories.

Hmn? I seem to recall Amy being quite helpful in The Beast Below and Vincent and the Doctor. For that matter, Rose's calling out of the Doctor in Dalek was one of the best scenes in nuWho. While Harriet Jones may not quite be a companion, she was pretty awesome, too.

I liked Asylum of the Daleks. Sure, I saw the plot twist with Oswin coming, but it was still and excellent and bittersweet narrative. The Rory/Amy thing did come across as a bit off, but it was nice to see Rory being shirty with his wife for once. Made him feel less perfect and more like a man, who, however badass, is still a man.

[Johonebesus]

Oh, but where did those other Daleks come from? It seems like they're all well accounted for. Every post-Time War dalek apart from those three Davros-daleks is dead. Where would they find an entire parliament's worth of Daleks made from the original Kaled flesh that the Victory Daleks wouldn't just kill? If they built them from scratch they would have looked like Victory Daleks(which shouldn't be possible because then the impurity of the last two Dalek empires don't make sense).

The only Dalek we saw naked was the Prime Minister. The rest were all in their travel machines. It is perfectly possible that they were newly created and pure and still piloting Time War era tanks. Just because they weren't using the new hump backed travel machines doesn't mean the they had to be Davros' clones. Although, his original Daleks were created from Kaleds, he was a Kaled, the bio-weapon that was only supposed to work on Daleks worked on him too, so what made his new clones "impure?"

There is only one thing I can add to the main discussion. The previews suggested we would see some old style Daleks, and the only one I could catch a glimpse of was one head with a little bump of a light while the Doctor was running to the transmat, and maybe a heavy weapon Dalek that didn't wake up to attack Rory. That's just cock-teasing.

[PREDATOR490]

0.

I refused to watch this episode or be remotely interested in any of the hype because I knew it would be an utter clusterfuck of fail. However, I was encouraged to watch it by someone mentioning it had some old style Daleks from the old series so I did... even on that note the episode completely fails. If there were any old style Daleks - they sure as shit didnt get any limelight at all. Possibly a mercy in disguise since I would rather not see OldWhu being wrecked.

Dalek Puppets - Fuck right off with that bullshit. It is beyond insulting the writers needed to put EYE-STALKS on these things to hammer home the point they are Daleks. Nevermind, the Puppet on Skaro had an Eye-Stalk so long it is hilarious figuring out how that fitted inside her skull. Oh yeah... bigger on the inside, right ?

Daleks - Made up of Time War Daleks and not the power rangers. Nice to see that New Paradigm introduction paid off by going back to the old style and performance. While I wont shed any tears about losing the Power Ranger theme, I expect a little pay off for the trailing theme these new Daleks were going to be different and come back in force. Especially when you magically ass pulled a huge army and skaro out of nowhere. The Daleks acting like morons is a consistant theme but unlike Victory... these Daleks had the means to lure,trap and capture the Doctor with minimum fuss.

I just love the complete failure of logic or common sense from the Daleks. Wonderful highlights:
We cant kill the Doctor because we think he is beautiful = Uhm, What ?
We cant kill other Daleks because they are super awesome = What the hell ?
A) We will use elaborate means to capture the Doctor and his companions, throw him at the problem, expect him to solve it then kill him afterward.
OR
B) We build one of our Androids, Puppets or some poor bastard picked up off the street, strap a bomb to them and hurl them at the planet.

The Daleks magically renaming the Doctor - What was wrong with the Oncoming Storm ?
"The Predator" - Sounds completely disjointed and is completely inappropriate. It might work IF the Doctor actually DID hunt the Daleks.
However, the Doctor NEVER hunts them unless the plot demands it which will be aptly demonstrated when the next episode has him going to fuck knows where rather than trying to destroy that entire Dalek fleet. I suppose he forgot about his brutal hatred and desire to destroy them completely from as far back as... Victory

Rory / Amy - Go away and die already. Rory was badass and Amy was hot... but you completely sunk any chance at redeeming them as actual characters with the constant melodrama.
Rory - Giving the Dalek a ball... words dont describe how stupid that scene was. Rory has seen a Dalek before and his overall performance this episode was appalling. Perfect character assassination by reducing him to the comedy idiot... meanwhile we will forget the character backstory like being a badass for 2000+ years. Except the brief mentions of it without any further explanation or ACTUAL implications for the character.
Amy - Amy treats Rory like shit and then the plot magically attempts to make her look good. Sorry, no. All this episode did is further demonstrate Rory is the poor victim in an absuive relationship but its okay for Amy to treat him that way... because she loves him soo much.

Mystery Dalek - Saw that coming a mile off... the plot telegraphs it by making her TOO awesome and trying to make you like her so they can give you the shock revelation.
That said, the actress is cute and I get the distinct impression part of this was meant to be a 'introduction' to being a companion. Wink at the end being a prime example.
Personnally, I would love to see a Dalek becoming a companion and with the plot selling her as being a genius. We might get someone that can actually rival the Doctor but since its easier to make the Doctor solve everything with contrived exposition, a wave of the screwdriver and pointless dialogue, I suspect she will be reduced to melo-drama generating eye-candy.

Daleks being mind-wiped... Uh right. Fuck off with that entire tangent at the end. I cannot believe this episode actually managed to character assassinate the entire Dalek race.

[Scrib]

I just love the complete failure of logic or common sense from the Daleks. Wonderful highlights:
We cant kill the Doctor because we think he is beautiful = Uhm, What ?
...

Daleks being mind-wiped... Uh right. Fuck off with that entire tangent at the end. I cannot believe this episode actually managed to character assassinate the entire Dalek race.

As hamfisted and silly as it was I've actually come to appreciate the thought process behind mind wiping the Daleks. You can't have it both ways, you want the Daleks to not act like Bond villains when they know exactly who the Doctor is? Well, you can either write the Daleks to be competent and come up with challenges for the Doctor, which would be hard or lower their fear of him to make their standing around more palatable. At least they're trying something.

[NecronLord]

As hamfisted and silly as it was I've actually come to appreciate the thought process behind mind wiping the Daleks. You can't have it both ways, you want the Daleks to not act like Bond villains when they know exactly who the Doctor is? Well, you can either write the Daleks to be competent and come up with challenges for the Doctor, which would be hard or lower their fear of him to make their standing around more palatable. At least they're trying something.

You can do this quite simply by doing the most basic thing they teach writers. Show, do not tell.

In The Invasion there is a scene where the cyber-planner is shown, by a human stooge, a security camera picture of the (Second) Doctor. The reaction is instant "He is known to us. He is an enemy of the cyber-race. He must be destroyed." (The human then dithers and deliberately doesn't assainate the doctor as the cyber-planner orders, hoping to use him as leverage against the cybermen later on.)

This is much more credible way of highlighting that the evil enemy fears the doctor (well, considers the Doctor dangerous to them, cybermen don't fear of course) than the recent tendancy for the both sides to spout lavish titles and declaim how many times he's beaten his old enemy, because it doesn't require either them standing around letting him speak about how badass he is, nor does it require that he not fear his opponents, which are after all, usually ruthless killing machines.

Ruthless killing machines should be... ruthless... killing... machines. If they fear the Doctor, it should not be shown when he's around; they should be too busy trying to kill him. Only if they're helpless or if there's no possiblity of immediately killing him is such a trait going to be noticable.