Alien Nation (TV and Movies)

[Broomstick]

Then they sure had a fast-track to citizenship - according to the opening blurb they'd only been on Earth 5 years or so, and US law normally requires seven years of legal residence prior to becoming a citizen. Then again, with them all being so obviously refugees and with absolutely no way to get back home there might have been some legal thing or Act of Congress passed to fast-track them to citizenship.

[mr friendly guy]

Then they sure had a fast-track to citizenship - according to the opening blurb they'd only been on Earth 5 years or so, and US law normally requires seven years of legal residence prior to becoming a citizen. Then again, with them all being so obviously refugees and with absolutely no way to get back home there might have been some legal thing or Act of Congress passed to fast-track them to citizenship.

I could possibly be wrong on this. I just assume they were citizens since Newcomer scientists are allowed to participate in weapons research which I would assume is quite sensitive and most probably not something you outsource to foreigners. Also as you mention there isn't really any place to deport them.

I currently own the original movie, the TV series and the TV series five TV movies on DVD. Frankly, I think the TV show is much better than the movie ever was, and it's a shame it only lasted a season. However, I do enjoy how they resolved most of the plot with the five movies. It's also a rather good allegory show about what it's like to be the newest group off the boat coming into our society, and all the pitfalls that can come along with it.

The relationship between the two detectives was also a delight to watch, as they were a great buddy cop dynamic.

I have managed to see a few of the movies. Are the extra features on the DVD worth it? The movies retail around $50 on ebay. I have seen bits and pieces of the extra features on youtube. I am particularly interested when they discuss the political commentary, and I loved how Eric Pierpoint (George) mentioned that he was on a subway with ethnic minorities, and one of them recognised him as George. He ended up missing his stop as he was talking to them, because those fans felt the show related to them.

[FaxModem1]

Yeah, that part is great to watch as they're discussing it. There's also commentary for all the movies, noting small things like how they did certain shots(George and Buck are wearing the same colors, but different styles in a scene, showing how they're starting to finally get along), how things have progressed(for instance, they noted that in the final movie commentary, that George was the first Newcomer cop there, and in the Udina Legacy, Newcomer cops are much more common). They also bring up what in real life inspired a few of subplots.

I'd say get it for the commentaries alone. As it is all 5 movies for about 25 bucks on Amazon.

[Broomstick]

Then they sure had a fast-track to citizenship - according to the opening blurb they'd only been on Earth 5 years or so, and US law normally requires seven years of legal residence prior to becoming a citizen. Then again, with them all being so obviously refugees and with absolutely no way to get back home there might have been some legal thing or Act of Congress passed to fast-track them to citizenship.

I could possibly be wrong on this. I just assume they were citizens since Newcomer scientists are allowed to participate in weapons research which I would assume is quite sensitive and most probably not something you outsource to foreigners.

There have been exceptions made in the past, most notably just after WWII when both the Russians and Americans were snatching up German scientists. For example, Von Braun didn't become a US citizen until 1955, but was working on various classified projects from 1945 onwards. Thus, the portrayal of Tenctonese scientists working on classified/government projects does have precedence of a sort. If the knowledge of technology and science are advanced enough the US will accept foreigners.

I double-checked the residency requirements for US citizenship and it looks like in most cases it's 5 years, so perhaps the timeline regarding their voting rights is correct after all. I'd expect there might be legal challenges to that, with the anti-citizen side claiming that the Founding Fathers only intended HUMANS to be citizens (actually, they only intended white people to be citizens, something the US later saw fit to change). I mean, heck, it wasn't until the late 19th Century that the courts determined that the Fourteenth Amendment applied to Asians as well as people of European and African descent. I think in real life such an issue would play out in the courts rather than be subject to a referendum, and it would involve the law not just in California but the entire US, but for story purposes it worked.

Baby Vessna, being born on Earth, would presumably be a natural-born citizen. Hey, she could run for president one day!

Also as you mention there isn't really any place to deport them.

The fate of stateless people can be sad one if they can't find a refuge. While many people have lived decent lives without being a citizen of a nation, when such people are rejected or expelled from where they live things can get very ugly. It also makes legalized discrimination much more likely.

Clearly, in the Alien Nation universe the Tenctonese were given refugee status and legal residency of some sort.

[folti78]

Then they sure had a fast-track to citizenship - according to the opening blurb they'd only been on Earth 5 years or so, and US law normally requires seven years of legal residence prior to becoming a citizen. Then again, with them all being so obviously refugees and with absolutely no way to get back home there might have been some legal thing or Act of Congress passed to fast-track them to citizenship.

This could be based on real life situations when the US granted asylum to large number of refugees from (at the time) hostile countries, like Cuba, Vietnam and Laos*. In this case they are practically stateless persons too. Creating a limited citizenship for them, would be the one of the best solutions. Granted it only works for the long run if the limited status exists for a limited time, then it reverts back to full citizenship(naturalized).

* Yes I know, it was a long struggle for the Vietnamese and Laotian people to get full asylum in the US. Didn't check the Cuban expats history.

EDIT: The above depends largely on what was the public opinion about granting asylum and/or citizenship to the Newcomers. They were a rather big news when they arrived, so their case wasn't that easy to sweep under the rug than kicking out some random stateless persons.

[Broomstick]

The Hmong would be another case of that - I think there's more Hmong in the US now than back in their original homeland.

The Cubans had it relatively easy, as giving them instant residency/fast track citizenship was done to spite Castro.

Politics do enter into these matters. The more sympathy a group has, or the more politically expedient helping them is, the better their treatment. Between advanced alien technology, the very public arrival of the Tenctonese, and the "liberating the slaves" meme it's not surprising they got a decent reception in the US.

[Connor MacLeod]

There was an economic incentive too - and not just the technology - the Newcomers were very intelligent and also very physically adept at enviroments lethal to humans (we saw that in the movie, and I believe it got mentioned in the TV show as well.) so there is strong incentive to have them as citizens.

The funny thing is that one of the 'racist' comments you hear is the typical 'THEY TAKE OUR JOBS' thing, except that they aren't numerous enough (yet) to be major competition, and their abilities are such they're more likely to enter into fields your average blue collar type isn't likely to go in for anyhow.

[mr friendly guy]

The Hmong would be another case of that - I think there's more Hmong in the US now than back in their original homeland.

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmong_people

Not quite. There are still more Hmong in Vietnam than the US. Not to mention China has even more, which would also count as their homeland.

There was an economic incentive too - and not just the technology - the Newcomers were very intelligent and also very physically adept at enviroments lethal to humans (we saw that in the movie, and I believe it got mentioned in the TV show as well.) so there is strong incentive to have them as citizens.

The funny thing is that one of the 'racist' comments you hear is the typical 'THEY TAKE OUR JOBS' thing, except that they aren't numerous enough (yet) to be major competition, and their abilities are such they're more likely to enter into fields your average blue collar type isn't likely to go in for anyhow.

We see Newcomers work in jobs as diverse as police (George), advertising (Susan), biochemistry (Cathy), the porn industry (which would presumably cater mainly to Newcomers and selected humans), medicine (Newcomer doctors and nurses are seen) etc. So its likely they aren't competing in the blue collar jobs, with some exceptions like Albert.

The other worry is that the Newcomers compete with humans for resources, which was a line from the purists. Arguably if they are better adapted to their environment they most probably consume less power in terms of air conditioning and heating, and since they don't eat cook food they will use less gas / electricity for meals.

[folti78]

There was an economic incentive too - and not just the technology - the Newcomers were very intelligent and also very physically adept at enviroments lethal to humans (we saw that in the movie, and I believe it got mentioned in the TV show as well.) so there is strong incentive to have them as citizens.

The funny thing is that one of the 'racist' comments you hear is the typical 'THEY TAKE OUR JOBS' thing, except that they aren't numerous enough (yet) to be major competition, and their abilities are such they're more likely to enter into fields your average blue collar type isn't likely to go in for anyhow.

We see Newcomers work in jobs as diverse as police (George), advertising (Susan), biochemistry (Cathy), the porn industry (which would presumably cater mainly to Newcomers and selected humans), medicine (Newcomer doctors and nurses are seen) etc. So its likely they aren't competing in the blue collar jobs, with some exceptions like Albert.

There is a line in the original movie when George states that most Newcomers are still working in jobs hazardous for humans (his wife still worked at a chem plant). This doesn't mean that people with better education (doctors and nurses for example, who's Newcomer specific skills were needed from day zero), hadn't been given appropriate jobs when they arrived and others started to migrate to different jobs when those became available(example: police started hiring them) or they got the needed education or gathered enough funds and knowledge to start their own business.

[Ahriman238]

I saw the first non-pilot episode "Fountain of Youth" today, and I was underwhelmed. The plot was pretty predictable, to the point I had the entire thing figured out around the seven minute mark. Also, I know there are plenty of violaters here, but I must stress, you can die from receiving blood from a first cousin with the wrong blood type, yet you can apparently transplant barely-understood alien glands into your torso with no ill effects? When said aliens are poisoned by cooked food, get drunk from sour milk, and melt in salt water?

[mr friendly guy]

I think the best episodes were (in no particular order)

1. Pilot - no need to reiterate what was said earlier.

2. The first cigar - "Shang Tsung" from Mortal Kombat gets killed by a Newcomer criminal boss.

3. Three to tango - Enterprise later did the same concept in "Congenitor"

4. The game - Andreas Katsulas (G'kar from Babylon 5) guest stars. I think someone said a lot of episodes tended to climax a bit too early, but in this one the suspense continued until almost the very end. The last confrontation between George and G'kar was awesome.

5. Eyewitness news - George becomes a television star for the news in a segment about cops. Oh, and there is a Newcomer porn star. Just thought people might like to know that.

6. Real Men

Body builder - What are you carrying under there officer, a melon?
Blonde bimbo stereotype girl - No silly. He is pregnant.

Steroid junkies showing off their worth, only to have a pregnant George lift with one hand what a muscle bound human needs two hands for.

Also the Dark Horizon movie was good as well. It does answer a good question. What happens when the slavers come back and want their slaves back. And will they stop with just the Newcomers. It also wraps up the plotline about the genetically engineered virus to kill the Newcomers. Poor Purists, they never had a chance against the slavers.

Body and Soul was semi decent - Buck starts becoming a racist again (forgetting the plotlines from the series where he um, got it on with his older human female teacher).

I plan to watch the other 3 movies when time permits.

[Broomstick]

Also, I know there are plenty of violaters here, but I must stress, you can die from receiving blood from a first cousin with the wrong blood type, yet you can apparently transplant barely-understood alien glands into your torso with no ill effects? When said aliens are poisoned by cooked food, get drunk from sour milk, and melt in salt water?

Let's see, if I was going to rationalize that...

Maybe the newcomer tissues are so alien your immune system doesn't react to them? There are parasites that happily live in the flesh of other animals (trichinosis in muscle cells, for example) that cause little or no immune reactions. Titanium implanted in the body usually causes no problems (eventually bone will fuse to titanium, which can be good or bad depending on circumstances).

Also, it's made clear the beneficial effects don't last - perhaps the human immune system destroys the tissues anyway and it's the hormones/chemicals left behind that give the beneficial effects and they wear off with time. In which case you maybe don't need to kill a Tenctonese or the actual gland, just what it produces. After all, we don't kill other humans to steal their pancreases to put into diabetics, we learned to make the secretion of the pancreas that diabetics need.

[cadbrowser]

...(eventually bone will fuse to titanium, which can be good or bad depending on circumstances)...

OMG! Really? I had no idea that happened. I need to look into that.

I could see it being very bad if that fusion interferred with a joint! EGADS!

[Connor MacLeod]

I saw the first non-pilot episode "Fountain of Youth" today, and I was underwhelmed. The plot was pretty predictable, to the point I had the entire thing figured out around the seven minute mark. Also, I know there are plenty of violaters here, but I must stress, you can die from receiving blood from a first cousin with the wrong blood type, yet you can apparently transplant barely-understood alien glands into your torso with no ill effects? When said aliens are poisoned by cooked food, get drunk from sour milk, and melt in salt water?

Alien nation won't be for everyone, in the same way that Honor Harrington (or John Ringo) won't be for everyone. I happen to like it because it has alot of the feel and characterization that I like in stargate. As I already said the 'sciency' aspects of the show are iffy at best and you have to be willing to ignore/work with that to really enjoy the series (again much like Stargate.)

Personally from a logic standpoint I though the Newcomer means of reproduction was needlessly complex, but I chalked it up to 'genetic engineering' handwavery magic. I'm willing to overlook it for Stargate though in the interests of story and characters.

And there's always the whole 'alien sex' angle.

[mr friendly guy]

Male seahorses store the fertilise egg and give birth, so they most probably got that idea with George giving birth from nature. As to the idea you needed two males for reproduction, I have no idea. It may very well be original, although like Connor mentioned, all these aspects make it complicated.

[CaptainChewbacca]

You didn't need 'two males' for reproduction, the newcomer species actually has 3 genders with the third 'Binom' being more male in form than female.

[Broomstick]

Although in "Three to Tango" it is pointed out that there is an anatomical difference, one obvious enough that Sikes spotted it without needing to have it pointed out (discretion blanket prevents the audience from seeing it) and apparently some binnaum's are born without the pouch to carry a pod (though we later find out Albert is not one of them). So, while to humans they may look male it may be that to Tenctonese the difference(s) are much more obvious.

[CaptainChewbacca]

It also seemed like the binnaums had a spot pattern different from both male and female tenctonese.

[Broomstick]

Yes, they do. This is referred to more explicitly in the novels. The Tenctonese seem to be able to identify binnaums by sight even when everyone is fully clothed.

[DudeGuyMan]

Same reason that Fyrefly got the Serenity movie. Fan demand. Except unlike Serenity, they kept the movies to TV show level budgets (or TV movie budgets), and the TV ratings for them warranted the sequels.

I'm really surprised they didn't go this route with Firefly. I mean god Syfy can crank out a hundred bullshit movies per year that nobody really cares about and apparently turn a tidy profit in the process since they keep doing it.

[amigocabal]

Forgive me for the thread necromancy, but I just had to share this awesome clip from the show.



Some of the people in that crowd (the show takes place in the 1990's) were old enough to have witnessed racial integration of public schools firsthand.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Oh man, when Matt looks at the black father and asks 'Aren't you ashamed of yourself?' you just get chills. I forgot how good TV like that could be.

[mr friendly guy]

The sad thing is, some members of ethnic minorities are racist against other ethnic minorities. So that black father most probably failed to understand irony. Of course if I was cynical, I suspect the new discrimination against the Newcomers could allow other discriminated minorities to feel more mainstream and take some of the load off them.

[Connor MacLeod]

There's alot going on in that series that I'd forgotten existed. The tie in to the movie, the overarcing plots, as well as the interpersonal ones.. it seemed to have alot more of a plot than Farscape did, but as I said the two have alot of similarities (I see Crichton and Matt having similar roles too.)

and yeah that bit from the pilot was really pretty awesome in my mind. And it carried on throughout the series - on both sides - George's son can be seen as starting out as something of a racist himself and going through a similar sort of process to what Matt went through in the movie.

I'm kinda surprised noone has ever done a reboot of this series yet. Although I'd be a bit scared if they did too

[FaxModem1]

We all kind of thought District 9 was a reboot of Alien Nation when we saw the trailers. Though I don't think that really counts.