Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

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Which Series to cover next?

Eisenhorn/Goto DoW
20
47%
Bill King's novels/Soul Drinkers
10
23%
Angels of Darkness/Daemon World
5
12%
Brothers of the Snake/Eldar Prophecy
8
19%
 
Total votes: 43

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Connor MacLeod
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Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Connor MacLeod »

In an effort to boost my volume to compensate for the fact I dont post as often as I used to, I've decided that when I do the next LtGB update, I'd cover two novels at once: One good novel and one crap novel series. The problem is, I'm not sure which ones to cover, so I figured I'd let the popular vote take it.

a,) Eisenhorn as good, but you also have to take Goto's Dawn of WAr novels. Actually I dont think they're that bad, save the last one, but since Goto is universeally reviled..

b.) All of Bill King's 40K novels I've read, which means the four Space Wolf novels and Farseer. Yes I know Farseer is a heretic tome, but I wrote it out and I'm going to fucking post it. I posted Space Marine after all. Besides, Farseer was a damn good novel and its a pity it never got a sequel. To balance this out, you will be forced to endure the truly abominable Soul Drinkers novels. Or, put another way "The answer to the question of what would happen if you converted the mentally handicapped into Space Marines." Note that since I have not read any stories past hellforged, nor am I sure I want to (I know it was continued in Bolter and Chainsword) you won't have to endure past five novels.

c.) Angels of Darkness by Gav Thorpe teamed up with Daemon World by ben Counter. Daemon world actually isn't a wholly bad novel, but the fact is that alot of it reads basically as a fantasy novel (and a boring one at that) means you have to slog through much of the crap to get to the good bits. To be fair, I do think the ending was worth the slog, but the bulk of the novel is still crappy filler. Angels of Darkness is perhaps as good as or better than the LAst Chancers novels.. it features truly complex and likeable Dark Angels, a good look at Heresy vs Modern Era space Marines, and is just generally well written and conceived.

d.) Brothers of the Snake coupled with Eldar Prophecy. Since I haven't rad Titanicus and I know there are lots of abnett fans, I figured why the hell not cover this since I had no other plans to. But to get this one, you have to put up with the one Goto novel I find truly abominable - Eldar Prophecy. Or also known as "Why CS Goto should never be allowed near Eldar, ever." It reads like a really crappy re-write of Dune with pointy eared spider characters, and is the first canonical mention of Craftworld KAelor, which is better knwon as the craftworld in much of the FFG 40K RPG book material. I will admit, this choice probably is the most favorable, as you get a lengthy update of Abnett along with a brief, very brief update on Goto. I literally skimmed through this book just to get through it, and it was one of the few novels I absolutely refused to re-read to "update" my notes on.

I will accept "write in" votes on the condition that they be accompanied by a book of equal but inverse value. I will also not be doing Ghosts, Cain, or anything like that. I also have not done the Dark HEresy novels, otherwise I might accept (for example) those two paired with the first two Blood angels novels. :P

so, go ahead and vote. I'm in no hurry to update so this will probably last around a good few months.

Edit: Oh yeah and feel free to post comments as well as vote, or to provide general commentary/criticism/whatever about how the general progress of things are doing, make requests, or whatever.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Brother-Captain Gaius »

I'd like to see Eisenhorn/Goto. Eisenhorn has different subject matter than the usual fare, and I'd be particularly interested in the possibility of more quantifiable untouchables. Goto calcs might be interesting to see, too.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Xess »

I voted for Angels of Darkness/Daemon World. Gav Thorpe is one of my favorite Black Library authors and I'd like to see your work on one of his novels. I'm also a fan of the Dark Angels so that's a bonus.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Whiskey144 »

Eisenhorn has my vote.

Despite Goto's generally accepted sucktacularness, actually seeing some of his work would be interesting.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Black Admiral »

Goto's not as bad as he's often made out to be. He's not brilliant, but there are worse authors (and he's actually come up with some nifty ideas).


I voted for the Bill King/Soul Drinkers option, mostly because I think it'll do Connor's sanity good if the Soul Drinkers books are just gotten out of the way with as quickly as practicable.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Feil »

I want to see Soul Drinkers. I'd love to see your attempt to explain why nuking a city from orbit would only create more places for the inhabitants to hide.

I haven't read any of the others on your list, except for Eisenhorn.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Lost Soal »

Chose Eisenhorn/DoW.
Eisenhorn, I love the series full stop same as Ravenor and I am looking forward to Abnetts promised Ravenor vs Eisenhorn.
Goto, I don't know. I've only personally read of of his short stories, the first was The Tower From Let The Galaxy Burn which I hated. It had a good premise but his characterisation was abysmal with his messenger, clearly having OCD to such absurd levels which would actually prevent him from doing his job, being the most egregious.
The Second was Trial Of the Mantis Warriors from Legends of the Space Marines, which I went in expecting the worst from after The Tower, but I actually enjoyed it. Good pacing, characters and really good ending.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Ahriman238 »

Soul Drinkers, I haven't actually read any other of the listed books. I just htink it'll be funny to have you read of the awesome stupidity of that most "special" of chapters.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Lost Soal wrote: Goto, I don't know. I've only personally read of of his short stories, the first was The Tower From Let The Galaxy Burn which I hated. It had a good premise but his characterisation was abysmal with his messenger, clearly having OCD to such absurd levels which would actually prevent him from doing his job, being the most egregious.
The Second was Trial Of the Mantis Warriors from Legends of the Space Marines, which I went in expecting the worst from after The Tower, but I actually enjoyed it. Good pacing, characters and really good ending.
Goto has problems not unique to him. He fucks up the technology sometimes (so do other authors, like the infamous "plasma supersoakers some authors use, as well as general inconsistency in what lasguns and bolters are supposed to be shooting) and his characters are usually pretty bad (badly named, badly characterized, etc.) but he can turn out decent work (the first and second DoW novels and the Deathwatch novels were pretty good. Warrior brood is perhaps his worst, so its perhaps no wonder you liked "Trial of the Mantis warriors" as the Mantis warriors featured prominently in there.)

Mind you, the names he invents for stuff like the 'praying mantidae" make me grind my teeth and want to kill. And Eldar. He has to be kept away from writing about Eldar.

On the scale of things Goto's worst writing is about on the same level as the Soul Drinkers stuff Ben Counter wrote, and for many of the same reasons (although there is more Soul Drinkers than 'Bad Goto novels'.) The biggest accusation you can level is that, for the most part, Goto is not the most interesting of writers, but he can turn out good work the same way Counter can (despite the Soul Drinkers - I sitll can't decide whether they are meant as a serious heroic rogue chapter, or if they're unintentional comedy and mockery of Space Marines and 40K in general.)

I also have to note I'm not really surprised how the voting is turning out. I was kinda hoping the Space Wolves would win because that was MY personal vote (I haven't voted though, even though my vote is clearly the most important) but Eisenhorn is a series that will consistnetly hold a place in people's hearts. And it is Abnett's best work. But as much as I like Eisenhorn, you can't beat the Space Wolves. Especially Haegr.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Ahriman238 wrote:Soul Drinkers, I haven't actually read any other of the listed books. I just htink it'll be funny to have you read of the awesome stupidity of that most "special" of chapters.
I tend to exaggerate the general "horrid-ness" of the novels, actually. The second and fifth novels actually are pretty good as stand alone works. The only thing that brings them down (and encourages the general bad feeling about the series in general) is the inclusion of the Soul Drinkers in any signfiicant capacity, becuase they are the most unlikeable, gullible, and improbable chapter of Space Marines I've ever heard of. Hell that fanfic female Chapter of Space Marines I've heard about is probably better than Spider Boy's bunch.

Honestly, had the grimdark been ampted down (along with some of Counter's quirky technical oddities) and Counter played to his strengths (developing and writing about non-Soul Drinkers) the novel series would be a whole lot better. The presence of the Soul Drinkers manages to usually drag down a decent novel into average, and turns an average novel into horrid.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Raxmei »

Feil wrote:I want to see Soul Drinkers. I'd love to see your attempt to explain why nuking a city from orbit would only create more places for the inhabitants to hide.
That does happen, more or less. While it also kills people and reduces the city's usefulness, converting buildings into ruins and rubble makes the place easier to hide in. Context?
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by The Reaper »

Haegr was pretty awesome...

However my vote is for the Daemon World combo, some great parts despite being fantasy. And the ending is pretty awesome.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Connor MacLeod »

I'm done my last update for LtGB but I'll probably wait til the next update (two to four weeks depending on various things, including interesti) before I start the next update. While it's possible the voting may swing the other way, it seems like Eisenhorn won out by a huge margin. as I said I'm not really surprised, and I'm getting the first entries for Xenos and Dawn of War ready.

I've also decided that I might (as long as I remember to at least) use this pattern to define the future pattern of releases for the moment. Which means after Eisenhorn and DoW I'll do The William King stuff, and then the other two pairs I mentioned.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Connor MacLeod »

Oh yes, I did have one other question I wanted to ask. I've been thinking of doing a little write up to summarize my current thoughts on 40K ground weapons and space, in part to explain why I've modified my prior "megajoule at minimum, only ever" conclusions in light of the new stuff I've mentioned in the past analysis (EG Luke Campbell's work, etc.) as well as some possible revisions on how I can think on fitting cauterization in. I was also going to throw in some random ideas on the nature and properties of 40K lasguns, but also some revisions on melta and plasma weapons to account for cases where they don't instantly or totally cremate a person (like in the Faith and Fire novel, or some of Counter's plasma supersoakers.)

I'd probably touch on space weapons a bit too, if anyone is interested.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Simon_Jester »

Doing that as a prelude to starting another novel analysis might work
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Connor MacLeod »

I'm done with my RL update and I'm done with LTGB, and I'll have one last update for IA1.. I could just take a short break from IA1 and do the page I was thinking of.. although it probably would be more whim based than the other ones.. I have some "older" write ups I always intended to post for lasgun analysis which are, whilst interesting, largely old and probably not as useful as I originally intended.. I might just post them for posterity's sake and interest... and there's some other stuff I wanted to post following my more recent lines of thought.

I might just open it up for Q&A for general energy weapons questions, throw in plasma and meltaguns (at this point I'm not drawing as much of a fine line between energy weapons like I used to anyhow, so much of what I post for lasguns can apply to the other weapons easily.)

The main obstacle is that I'm not sure really how to start it. I keep composing ways to start it in my head but nothing quite works out. I made errors in my past stuff (big surprise) but I'm not totally convinced that my past ideas were wrong per se, just woefully incomplete - alot of it is a "depends on" sort of situation (as in "depends on how you use the weapon.")

Also I have to do a writeup for the Epic Armageddon swordwind which will get thrown into the next update. :P
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by The Reaper »

You should get to Blood Gorgon, there is a ton of quantifiable stuff in there.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Black Admiral »

Hey, man, Connor'll get to that when he gets to it. He's ultimately doing this of his own volition, and it'll take as long as it takes. Being pushy isn't liable to get things moving any quicker.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Connor MacLeod »

I'd have to read Emperor's Mercy and Flesh and Iron first. I'm not hugely impressed by Zou,a lthough his work has some interesting stuff in it. right now I'm reading "Path of the Warrior".
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by The Reaper »

Black Admiral wrote:Hey, man, Connor'll get to that when he gets to it. He's ultimately doing this of his own volition, and it'll take as long as it takes. Being pushy isn't liable to get things moving any quicker.
I would hardly call that pushy, it was more of a suggestion.

However if it did sound pushy I apologize.

@Connor while Emperor's Mercy is pretty good it has nothing to do with Blood Gorgons. Haven't read the other one.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Elessar »

Connor MacLeod wrote:I'd have to read Emperor's Mercy and Flesh and Iron first. I'm not hugely impressed by Zou,a lthough his work has some interesting stuff in it. right now I'm reading "Path of the Warrior".
Zou is a terrible author with meaningless characters and a desire to name everyone before they are killed a page or two later. That said, you don't need things like plot and characterization if you're just looking for battle sequences to analyze. And there are plenty of those.

I hated Emperor's Mercy because of its scale. Every time Henry Zou put numbers into his work it just made me cringe. The man just doesn't understand the scale of a sub-sector. The author is only a bit better in his subsequent books as he worked at the planet-level.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Black Admiral »

Then, Emperor's Mercy did bring us the hilarity of 60-kiloton KE-equivalent autocannon shells fired from a light tank (and was much better than Flesh And Iron which has to be one of the worst 40k novels I've read), so much is forgiven. :D
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Darksider »

Honestly, I rather liked Flesh and Iron for subverting the typical "Imperium=good and noble, Chaos=baby-eating monsters" paradigm seen in most 40k fluff. Exactly what was it you didn't like about it?
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Black Admiral »

Well, mainly, I found it both mind-numbingly boring and to not actually be a 40k novel; more a bad Vietnam War novel with a pro-Chaos 40k desktop theme. Not a fan of the heavy pro-Chaos slant either; I don't mind Chaos protagonists, being a big fan of Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords books, but there is a difference between that and the outright "CHAOS IS AWESOME!" Flesh And Iron gets to and that takes up far too much of the book (e.g., any of it).

Also, I'm not really a fan of the fact that of late the Sisters of Battle seem confined to being cannon-fodder or dupes of the bad guys (or, if you're the Grey Knights according to their new codex, blood magic fuel), a thing of which Flesh And Iron is guilty.
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Re: Voting time: Select the next 40K novel I cover!

Post by Elessar »

Darksider wrote:Honestly, I rather liked Flesh and Iron for subverting the typical "Imperium=good and noble, Chaos=baby-eating monsters" paradigm seen in most 40k fluff. Exactly what was it you didn't like about it?
This was a great part of the novel. Unfortunately, it was the latter third. The previous two-hundred pages were, as Black Admiral stated, a bad Vietnam War novel. Added to this the sheer, brain-numbing excuse that the Imperial Guard couldn't land their men on an island because of a single artillery bank that destroyed their carriers. Seriously, the Imperial Guard, unwilling to throw men into the grinder at a 10:1 ratio just to establish a beachhead. It was pathetic and not at all IOM-like.

Compare the Flesh and Iron response to something like the one Dark Apostle, where the Guard just blanketed the airspace above a fortress with flying corpses... *sigh*

Seriously Connor, don't waste your time on that drivel.
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